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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit wtih
some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.

What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12 day
period so have lots of exploring time.

Thanks for any suggestions.


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
jcoulter
 
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Default South of France Wine Areas

"dick" > wrote in
link.net:

> When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit
> wtih some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.
>
> What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
> spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a
> 12 day period so have lots of exploring time.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>
>


At the risk of repeating myself, Gigondas, eat lunch at Les Florets just
north of the town proper. There are many producers who have degustation,
that is the word to watch for on signs. This is an area where potluck
can throw up some nice surprises.
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
Pape...just on of same village?

What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?

Serious question...I know my Burgs and Bordeaux but not much on Rhone.


"jcoulter" > wrote in message
. 227.77...
> "dick" > wrote in
> link.net:
>
> > When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit
> > wtih some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.
> >
> > What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
> > spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a
> > 12 day period so have lots of exploring time.
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions.
> >
> >
> >

>
> At the risk of repeating myself, Gigondas, eat lunch at Les Florets just
> north of the town proper. There are many producers who have degustation,
> that is the word to watch for on signs. This is an area where potluck
> can throw up some nice surprises.



  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mark Lipton
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas



dick wrote:

> Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
> Pape...just on of same village?
>
> What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?


Dick,
Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic
differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas,
that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a
style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish
fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit
more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less
long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90
Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime.
Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or
two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St.
Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small
detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to visit
there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas
Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either.

Mark Lipton

  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
jcoulter
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

"dick" > wrote in news:8A4_b.15786$hm4.8214
@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

> Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
> Pape...just on of same village?
>
> What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?


As Mark said similar though Gigondas is primarily Grenache and Syrah
(IIRC) with a dose of Mourvedre with the neighboring Vacqueyras, as
indicated in recent thread, a bit less Grenache.

Mark posted the following on 1-29:

Here are my notes from a recent tasting put on by JC Mathes of J et R
Selections (http://www.jetrselections.com), a smallish importer who
specializes in wines from small domaines in the Rhône Valley, with a few
domaines from elsewhere in France. All told, they import 140 different
domaines, and IMO generally bring in wines of character and value. Last
night's wines:
,other material snipped>

1999 La Tourade Vacqueyras
nose: gamey , cherries, smoke
palate: acidic on entry, giving way to cherry fruit and medium body,
giving way to gaminess in the finish.
Now this is more like it (at ~$15)! Made from 80/10/10
Grenache/Syrah/Mourvedre (as are all their Gigondas cuveés), it has that
funkiness that I associate with Vacqueyras (guaranteed to turn Jean off
in a heartbeat). Quite a nice value.

2000 La Tourade Vacqueyras
nose: gamey, cherries
palate: softer on entry than the '99, rich fruit in the midpalate before
an acidic finish.
Softer and simpler than the '99, but still a decent wine. Between the
two, however, I preferred the '99.

1999 La Tourade Gigondas
nose: slightly floral, with minerals, cherry and smoke
palate: acidic entry, cherry, gaminess, with mild tannins and acid in
the finish
This cuvée was made from younger vines, but still has substance and
character. Quite typical of Gigondas (IMO) and a decent bargain at $18.

2000 La Tourade Gigondas
nose: cherry and minerals
palate: acidic, slightly thinner and less appealing than the '99, but
similar in character

1998 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux
nose: deep cherry fruit
palate: pencil lead, tannins in the midpalate, modestly fruity
Similar in many ways to a decent CdP, this wine didn't have quite enough
fruit to go with the still substantial tannins.

2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux
nose: some heat, and oak(??) with deep cherry fruit
palate: rich mouthfeel, lots of cherryish fruit and a tannic finish
This was the biggest of the Gigondas stable, but also more expensive
(~$24). This one might develop into something very interesting in a few
years, though.

2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Morgan
nose: licorice and volatile esters
palate: licorice, cedar, red fruit and an oaky finish
This, according to JC, is the domaine's bow to American taste: Gigondas
aged in new barriques. JC only imports it because his customers love it
(he doesn't). I'm with JC: this is closer to Zin or Aussie Shiraz than
Gigondas.

Of all the Gigondas tasted from this producer, the '99 regular cuvée and
the 2000 Font des Aieux stood out. It would have been fun to try the
'99 Font des Aieux as I generally preferred the wines from that year,
but it wasn't available.

1999 Grand Tinel Chateauneuf du Pape
nose: leather, tobacco and some fruit underneath
palate: rich mouthfeel, cherry fruit, before a clean finish
A very nice CdP selling for a Gigondas price (~$25). After the earlier
wines, this came across as big and rich. Yum!

1999 Bois de Boursan Chateauneuf du Pape
nose: gamey, leather and seaweed
palate: slightly alcholic on entry, giving way to deep cherry fruit and
an acidic finish
Yes, this is the same wine I tasted last week! (5 wines from J et R at
the last tasting) If you go back and read my notes from that tasting,
you'll see why I'm not a professional wine reviewer. ;-) Good stuff,
though (~$30).

2001 Domaine du Pégaü Chateauneuf du Pape
nose: slightly corked (dammit! it was the last bottle, too), flowers
and fruit beneath
palate: big wine, lots of cherry and berryish fruit, tannic and tarry
before a 60 second finish.
WOW! I can only imagine what this wine would have been like if it
hadn't been corked, but still impressive. I missed out on the 2000
Pégaü, but as I had it at last year's J et R tasting, I wasn't too torn
up. People who had both were largely more favorable about the 2000,
but it could simply be that it was a year softer (actually, the 2000 is
probably bigger IIRC). The only thing not to like is the price ($48),
but that's the price of success...

Overall, a great tasting put on by a great guy (JC). The wines were
generally of quite high quality, with lots of personality and very
reasonably priced wines. As they are now distributed in over a dozen
states in the US (see the website for names) these are wines worth
looking for.

Mark Lipton


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

thanks.


"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> dick wrote:
>
> > Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
> > Pape...just on of same village?
> >
> > What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?

>
> Dick,
> Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic
> differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas,
> that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a
> style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish
> fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit
> more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less
> long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90
> Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime.
> Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or
> two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St.
> Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small
> detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to

visit
> there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas
> Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either.
>
> Mark Lipton
>



  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

thanks.
"jcoulter" > wrote in message
. 204.17...
> "dick" > wrote in news:8A4_b.15786$hm4.8214
> @newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
> > Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
> > Pape...just on of same village?
> >
> > What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?

>
> As Mark said similar though Gigondas is primarily Grenache and Syrah
> (IIRC) with a dose of Mourvedre with the neighboring Vacqueyras, as
> indicated in recent thread, a bit less Grenache.
>
> Mark posted the following on 1-29:
>
> Here are my notes from a recent tasting put on by JC Mathes of J et R
> Selections (http://www.jetrselections.com), a smallish importer who
> specializes in wines from small domaines in the Rhône Valley, with a few
> domaines from elsewhere in France. All told, they import 140 different
> domaines, and IMO generally bring in wines of character and value. Last
> night's wines:
> ,other material snipped>
>
> 1999 La Tourade Vacqueyras
> nose: gamey , cherries, smoke
> palate: acidic on entry, giving way to cherry fruit and medium body,
> giving way to gaminess in the finish.
> Now this is more like it (at ~$15)! Made from 80/10/10
> Grenache/Syrah/Mourvedre (as are all their Gigondas cuveés), it has that
> funkiness that I associate with Vacqueyras (guaranteed to turn Jean off
> in a heartbeat). Quite a nice value.
>
> 2000 La Tourade Vacqueyras
> nose: gamey, cherries
> palate: softer on entry than the '99, rich fruit in the midpalate before
> an acidic finish.
> Softer and simpler than the '99, but still a decent wine. Between the
> two, however, I preferred the '99.
>
> 1999 La Tourade Gigondas
> nose: slightly floral, with minerals, cherry and smoke
> palate: acidic entry, cherry, gaminess, with mild tannins and acid in
> the finish
> This cuvée was made from younger vines, but still has substance and
> character. Quite typical of Gigondas (IMO) and a decent bargain at $18.
>
> 2000 La Tourade Gigondas
> nose: cherry and minerals
> palate: acidic, slightly thinner and less appealing than the '99, but
> similar in character
>
> 1998 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux
> nose: deep cherry fruit
> palate: pencil lead, tannins in the midpalate, modestly fruity
> Similar in many ways to a decent CdP, this wine didn't have quite enough
> fruit to go with the still substantial tannins.
>
> 2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux
> nose: some heat, and oak(??) with deep cherry fruit
> palate: rich mouthfeel, lots of cherryish fruit and a tannic finish
> This was the biggest of the Gigondas stable, but also more expensive
> (~$24). This one might develop into something very interesting in a few
> years, though.
>
> 2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Morgan
> nose: licorice and volatile esters
> palate: licorice, cedar, red fruit and an oaky finish
> This, according to JC, is the domaine's bow to American taste: Gigondas
> aged in new barriques. JC only imports it because his customers love it
> (he doesn't). I'm with JC: this is closer to Zin or Aussie Shiraz than
> Gigondas.
>
> Of all the Gigondas tasted from this producer, the '99 regular cuvée and
> the 2000 Font des Aieux stood out. It would have been fun to try the
> '99 Font des Aieux as I generally preferred the wines from that year,
> but it wasn't available.
>
> 1999 Grand Tinel Chateauneuf du Pape
> nose: leather, tobacco and some fruit underneath
> palate: rich mouthfeel, cherry fruit, before a clean finish
> A very nice CdP selling for a Gigondas price (~$25). After the earlier
> wines, this came across as big and rich. Yum!
>
> 1999 Bois de Boursan Chateauneuf du Pape
> nose: gamey, leather and seaweed
> palate: slightly alcholic on entry, giving way to deep cherry fruit and
> an acidic finish
> Yes, this is the same wine I tasted last week! (5 wines from J et R at
> the last tasting) If you go back and read my notes from that tasting,
> you'll see why I'm not a professional wine reviewer. ;-) Good stuff,
> though (~$30).
>
> 2001 Domaine du Pégaü Chateauneuf du Pape
> nose: slightly corked (dammit! it was the last bottle, too), flowers
> and fruit beneath
> palate: big wine, lots of cherry and berryish fruit, tannic and tarry
> before a 60 second finish.
> WOW! I can only imagine what this wine would have been like if it
> hadn't been corked, but still impressive. I missed out on the 2000
> Pégaü, but as I had it at last year's J et R tasting, I wasn't too torn
> up. People who had both were largely more favorable about the 2000,
> but it could simply be that it was a year softer (actually, the 2000 is
> probably bigger IIRC). The only thing not to like is the price ($48),
> but that's the price of success...
>
> Overall, a great tasting put on by a great guy (JC). The wines were
> generally of quite high quality, with lots of personality and very
> reasonably priced wines. As they are now distributed in over a dozen
> states in the US (see the website for names) these are wines worth
> looking for.
>
> Mark Lipton



  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Yeah, guess I shouldn't have ****ed Ian off months ago...he would have been
a great resource for this trip.


"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> dick wrote:
>
> > Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
> > Pape...just on of same village?
> >
> > What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?

>
> Dick,
> Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic
> differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas,
> that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a
> style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish
> fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit
> more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less
> long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90
> Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime.
> Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or
> two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St.
> Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small
> detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to

visit
> there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas
> Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either.
>
> Mark Lipton
>



  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities. From
Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different areas. 100
Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ...

I plan to take train from Barcelona to France...where in France I am not yet
positive. Most Americans I understand go to Perpignan to pick up car to
avoid huge drop charges. I was thinking go to Dijon/Beaune and drive back
to Avigon and then Nice.

I really love Burgs, have not developed much appreciation for Rhone other
than Hermitage. CDP's are OK to me. But perhaps after staying in the region
my tastes will devolop.


"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> dick wrote:
>
> > Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
> > Pape...just on of same village?
> >
> > What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?

>
> Dick,
> Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic
> differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas,
> that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a
> style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish
> fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit
> more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less
> long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90
> Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime.
> Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or
> two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St.
> Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small
> detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to

visit
> there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas
> Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either.
>
> Mark Lipton
>



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
alfaekko
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas


"dick" > skrev i en meddelelse
link.net...
> When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit

wtih
> some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.
>
> What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
> spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12

day
> period so have lots of exploring time.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.




In Gigondas I recommend a visit to Domaine Raspail-Ay. Very good wine at
reasonable price (10 euro)

In Vacqueyras, try Domaine La Garrique. They make excellent and powerfull
wines with good potential for ageing.
Read more at http://www.vacqueyras.tm.fr/EN/Cellars/Lagarrigue.htm

In Cdp, I have visited Clos de Papes, they sell at around 20 euro a very
good CdP.

Anders




  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mark Lipton
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas



alfaekko wrote:

>
>
> In Gigondas I recommend a visit to Domaine Raspail-Ay. Very good wine at
> reasonable price (10 euro)
>
> In Vacqueyras, try Domaine La Garrique. They make excellent and powerfull
> wines with good potential for ageing.
> Read more at http://www.vacqueyras.tm.fr/EN/Cellars/Lagarrigue.htm
>
> In Cdp, I have visited Clos de Papes, they sell at around 20 euro a very
> good CdP.
>


Good suggestions. In CdP, I'd add Font de Michelle (good pricing), Domaine
du Pegau (a personal favorite) and (though I've never been there) I'd try to
get in to Clos du Caillou -- they're doing some great things these days.
Ch. Beaucastel is also worth a visit if you want to see the closest thing to
a CA tasting room to be found in those parts...

Mark Lipton

  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Thanks for advice. I had found these on a web site-
http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/p...euf/index.html

I am a bit nervous about accommodations. My Bro-In-Law used to be a yacht
captain and suggested just book your arrival and departure cities for
lodging...then stay at B&B's in route. (no reservations needed) If you want
to explore longer in some locations it won't matter.

So all I am going to do is book a nice place in Barcelona for the first 3-4
nights, then for the last 2-3 in Nice or Monaco....and the 8 nights nights
or so in between we will try to stay near Avignon, Aix in Provance, and
others along the way...I will book train to go from Barcelona to
France...and have car reservations made, and some winery appointments.

I am quite a planner and this will be stressful. I can just imagine a big
convention in town and everything is booked for 100 miles. There I am in
France, no where to stay. That would suck. At least I will eat and drink
well.

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> alfaekko wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > In Gigondas I recommend a visit to Domaine Raspail-Ay. Very good wine at
> > reasonable price (10 euro)
> >
> > In Vacqueyras, try Domaine La Garrique. They make excellent and

powerfull
> > wines with good potential for ageing.
> > Read more at http://www.vacqueyras.tm.fr/EN/Cellars/Lagarrigue.htm
> >
> > In Cdp, I have visited Clos de Papes, they sell at around 20 euro a very
> > good CdP.
> >

>
> Good suggestions. In CdP, I'd add Font de Michelle (good pricing),

Domaine
> du Pegau (a personal favorite) and (though I've never been there) I'd try

to
> get in to Clos du Caillou -- they're doing some great things these days.
> Ch. Beaucastel is also worth a visit if you want to see the closest thing

to
> a CA tasting room to be found in those parts...
>
> Mark Lipton
>



  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mike Tommasi
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:05:50 GMT, "dick" > wrote:

>Thanks for advice. I had found these on a web site-
>http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/p...euf/index.html
>
>I am a bit nervous about accommodations. My Bro-In-Law used to be a yacht
>captain and suggested just book your arrival and departure cities for
>lodging...then stay at B&B's in route. (no reservations needed) If you want
>to explore longer in some locations it won't matter.
>
>So all I am going to do is book a nice place in Barcelona for the first 3-4
>nights, then for the last 2-3 in Nice or Monaco....and the 8 nights nights
>or so in between we will try to stay near Avignon, Aix in Provance, and
>others along the way...I will book train to go from Barcelona to
>France...and have car reservations made, and some winery appointments.
>


Dick

near Avignon B&B and some meals stay at La Marteliere, tell them I
sent you and they'll charge you double ;-)))

www.la-marteliere.com

Good place, calm, country, close to everything (Fontaine de Vaucluse,
Chateauneuf, Avignon, Isle sur Sorgue, Gordes. Great wine cellar and
can give you greart advice, he's on FRBV.

Mike



Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ron Lel
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas


"dick" > wrote in message
link.net...
> When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit

wtih
> some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.
>
> What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
> spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12

day
> period so have lots of exploring time.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.


May I also suggest that you make a slight detour and have lunch at
Restaurant Pic in Orange. You will have a fabulous meal. While there you
could also visit and taste some Rhones at Chapoutier in Tain Hermitage.

Cheers
Ron Lel


  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mike Tommasi
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:15:51 GMT, "Ron Lel" > wrote:

>
>"dick" > wrote in message
hlink.net...
>> When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit

>wtih
>> some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.
>>
>> What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
>> spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12

>day
>> period so have lots of exploring time.
>>
>> Thanks for any suggestions.

>
>May I also suggest that you make a slight detour and have lunch at
>Restaurant Pic in Orange. You will have a fabulous meal. While there you
>could also visit and taste some Rhones at Chapoutier in Tain Hermitage.


La Pyramide at Vienne is also back in fine shape.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail


  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Looks nice. Thanks.


"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:05:50 GMT, "dick" > wrote:
>
> >Thanks for advice. I had found these on a web site-
> >http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/p...euf/index.html
> >
> >I am a bit nervous about accommodations. My Bro-In-Law used to be a

yacht
> >captain and suggested just book your arrival and departure cities for
> >lodging...then stay at B&B's in route. (no reservations needed) If you

want
> >to explore longer in some locations it won't matter.
> >
> >So all I am going to do is book a nice place in Barcelona for the first

3-4
> >nights, then for the last 2-3 in Nice or Monaco....and the 8 nights

nights
> >or so in between we will try to stay near Avignon, Aix in Provance, and
> >others along the way...I will book train to go from Barcelona to
> >France...and have car reservations made, and some winery appointments.
> >

>
> Dick
>
> near Avignon B&B and some meals stay at La Marteliere, tell them I
> sent you and they'll charge you double ;-)))
>
> www.la-marteliere.com
>
> Good place, calm, country, close to everything (Fontaine de Vaucluse,
> Chateauneuf, Avignon, Isle sur Sorgue, Gordes. Great wine cellar and
> can give you greart advice, he's on FRBV.
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail



  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Is Hermatige there in Orange? How close is it.
"Ron Lel" > wrote in message
...
>
> "dick" > wrote in message
> link.net...
> > When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit

> wtih
> > some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few.
> >
> > What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and
> > spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12

> day
> > period so have lots of exploring time.
> >
> > Thanks for any suggestions.

>
> May I also suggest that you make a slight detour and have lunch at
> Restaurant Pic in Orange. You will have a fabulous meal. While there you
> could also visit and taste some Rhones at Chapoutier in Tain Hermitage.
>
> Cheers
> Ron Lel
>
>



  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mark Lipton
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas



dick wrote:

> Is Hermatige there in Orange? How close is it.


Nope. Hermitage is in Tain-L'Hermitage, located on the other side of Valence
from Orange. It's about 70 miles away as the crow drives...

Mark Lipton

  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
cherie
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

"dick" > wrote in message thlink.net>...
> Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities. From
> Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different areas. 100
> Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ...
>


I believe that Beaune is the Capital of Burgundy.

-Cherie
  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ian Hoare
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Salut/Hi cherie,

le/on 23 Feb 2004 07:57:32 -0800, tu disais/you said:-

>"dick" > wrote in message thlink.net>...
>> Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities. From
>> Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different areas. 100
>> Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ...
>>

>
>I believe that Beaune is the Capital of Burgundy.


Not quite. Without going into the HUGE question of French administration,
which is entirely different to that of the USA, you have the smallest
administrative unit, which is called the commune, and is based around a
village/town and has a town council and mayor. Several communes go to make a
Canton, (whose relevance escapes me) and several cantons go to make up a
Sous-prefecture (also of obscure importance). Next comes the "Department"
and this is of crucial importance administratively. It has a general
council, and the head honcho, who embodies the department to France and
embodies the authority of the state and the President to the department, is
called the Prefet (prefect).

The most classic part of Burgundy is in the Department called "Côte d'Or"
and the capital of the Côte d'Or is Dijon. However, in wine terms Burgundy
also includes wines from Macon and Chablis, and Macon is in the department
of the Saone et Loire, and Chablis is in the department of Yonne. ALL these
departments are in the administrative _Region_ of Burgundy and that too has
a capital which is, as Mike said, Dijon.

However, Beaune is bang in the centre of the Cote d'Or, and is a cantonal
capital, as wll as the most important town in wine terms.

Whew!!

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website
  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dick Neidich
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Thanks for you response. However I am still confused.

I was going to try to get to Burgundy as this is my favorite wine
region. However for driving I was trying www.mappy.com to route
myself in France.

The choices for Beaune are as follows with the drop down menu-
-Beaune (Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne)
-Beaune (Sornac)
-Beaune (Saint-Genès-Champanelle)
-Beaune (Saint-Arcons-d'Allier)
-Beaune (Saint-Étienne-du-Vigan)

These are the choices and they range from about 116 Miles from Avignon
to about 330 miles from Avignon...I would go if it were only 2 hours
away...but not 5-6.

So I assume it is the one that is just south of Dijon...but what do
all these mean that are so far away from each other.

That is why I ask if Beaune a State / Region? I remain confused.

Ian Hoare > wrote in message >. ..
> Salut/Hi cherie,
>
> le/on 23 Feb 2004 07:57:32 -0800, tu disais/you said:-
>
> >"dick" > wrote in message thlink.net>...
> >> Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities. From
> >> Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different areas. 100
> >> Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ...
> >>

> >
> >I believe that Beaune is the Capital of Burgundy.

>
> Not quite. Without going into the HUGE question of French administration,
> which is entirely different to that of the USA, you have the smallest
> administrative unit, which is called the commune, and is based around a
> village/town and has a town council and mayor. Several communes go to make a
> Canton, (whose relevance escapes me) and several cantons go to make up a
> Sous-prefecture (also of obscure importance). Next comes the "Department"
> and this is of crucial importance administratively. It has a general
> council, and the head honcho, who embodies the department to France and
> embodies the authority of the state and the President to the department, is
> called the Prefet (prefect).
>
> The most classic part of Burgundy is in the Department called "Côte d'Or"
> and the capital of the Côte d'Or is Dijon. However, in wine terms Burgundy
> also includes wines from Macon and Chablis, and Macon is in the department
> of the Saone et Loire, and Chablis is in the department of Yonne. ALL these
> departments are in the administrative _Region_ of Burgundy and that too has
> a capital which is, as Mike said, Dijon.
>
> However, Beaune is bang in the centre of the Cote d'Or, and is a cantonal
> capital, as wll as the most important town in wine terms.
>
> Whew!!

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michael Pronay
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

(Dick Neidich) wrote:

> I was going to try to get to Burgundy as this is my favorite wine
> region. However for driving I was trying
www.mappy.com to route
> myself in France.
>
> The choices for Beaune are as follows with the drop down menu-
> -Beaune (Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne)
> -Beaune (Sornac)
> -Beaune (Saint-Genès-Champanelle)
> -Beaune (Saint-Arcons-d'Allier)
> -Beaune (Saint-Étienne-du-Vigan)


Sorry, but you don't seem to handle your tools correcly.

In fact this planner gives you the right Beaune in first place
("Beaune 21200"), *only in addition* you can find the five little
villages you mentioned.

Simply have another try.

Makes 382 kms, 372 of which on the autoroute or 3 hrs plus to drive,
according to your speed.

M.
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
jcoulter
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

(Dick Neidich) wrote in
om:

> Thanks for you response. However I am still confused.
>
> I was going to try to get to Burgundy as this is my favorite wine
> region. However for driving I was trying
www.mappy.com to route
> myself in France.
>
> The choices for Beaune are as follows with the drop down menu-
> -Beaune (Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne)
> -Beaune (Sornac)
> -Beaune (Saint-Genès-Champanelle)
> -Beaune (Saint-Arcons-d'Allier)
> -Beaune (Saint-Étienne-du-Vigan)
>
> These are the choices and they range from about 116 Miles from Avignon
> to about 330 miles from Avignon...I would go if it were only 2 hours
> away...but not 5-6.
>
> So I assume it is the one that is just south of Dijon...but what do
> all these mean that are so far away from each other.
>
> That is why I ask if Beaune a State / Region? I remain confused.
>
> Ian Hoare > wrote in message
> >. ..
>> Salut/Hi cherie,
>>
>> le/on 23 Feb 2004 07:57:32 -0800, tu disais/you said:-
>>
>> >"dick" > wrote in message
>> rthlink.net>...
>> >> Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities.
>> >> From Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different
>> >> areas. 100 Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ...
>> >>
>> >
>> >I believe that Beaune is the Capital of Burgundy.

>>
>> Not quite. Without going into the HUGE question of French
>> administration, which is entirely different to that of the USA, you
>> have the smallest administrative unit, which is called the commune,
>> and is based around a village/town and has a town council and mayor.
>> Several communes go to make a Canton, (whose relevance escapes me)
>> and several cantons go to make up a Sous-prefecture (also of obscure
>> importance). Next comes the "Department" and this is of crucial
>> importance administratively. It has a general council, and the head
>> honcho, who embodies the department to France and embodies the
>> authority of the state and the President to the department, is called
>> the Prefet (prefect).
>>
>> The most classic part of Burgundy is in the Department called "Côte
>> d'Or" and the capital of the Côte d'Or is Dijon. However, in wine
>> terms Burgundy also includes wines from Macon and Chablis, and Macon
>> is in the department of the Saone et Loire, and Chablis is in the
>> department of Yonne. ALL these departments are in the administrative
>> _Region_ of Burgundy and that too has a capital which is, as Mike
>> said, Dijon.
>>
>> However, Beaune is bang in the centre of the Cote d'Or, and is a
>> cantonal capital, as wll as the most important town in wine terms.
>>
>> Whew!!

>


I use viamichelin and have good results (I am a travel agent and plan
trips for others) think of Beaune as Springfield now where is it?
Viamichelin clearly shows that the majority of the Beaunes that you are
seeing are beaune la such and such or such and such or les beaune. The
first entry is the one you wnat Cote d'Or etc.
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dick Neidich
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Thank you. I had figured it was the one just south of Dijon...but
what are all the others...

One of them is half the distance and further to the west. Does this
mean Beaune is a region?

Thanks.

Note--I was just using Mappy for the first time. It seems pretty
good. Better than Mapquest here in the states.

Michael Pronay > wrote in message >...
> (Dick Neidich) wrote:
>
> > I was going to try to get to Burgundy as this is my favorite wine
> > region. However for driving I was trying
www.mappy.com to route
> > myself in France.
> >
> > The choices for Beaune are as follows with the drop down menu-
> > -Beaune (Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne)
> > -Beaune (Sornac)
> > -Beaune (Saint-Genès-Champanelle)
> > -Beaune (Saint-Arcons-d'Allier)
> > -Beaune (Saint-Étienne-du-Vigan)

>
> Sorry, but you don't seem to handle your tools correcly.
>
> In fact this planner gives you the right Beaune in first place
> ("Beaune 21200"), *only in addition* you can find the five little
> villages you mentioned.
>
> Simply have another try.
>
> Makes 382 kms, 372 of which on the autoroute or 3 hrs plus to drive,
> according to your speed.
>
> M.



  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
RV WRLee
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

>These are the choices and they range from about 116 Miles from Avignon
>to about 330 miles from Avignon...I would go if it were only 2 hours
>away...but not 5-6.
>


To put things into perspective, France is roughly the same size as Texas in
terms of land mass. This is the reason that the TGV is so popular. The drive
from Avignon to Beaune would be more like 5-6 hours. Beaune to central Paris
is about 3-4 hours depending on traffic.
Bi!!
  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michael Pronay
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote:

>> Put it this way, to get an idea of France's transport system,
>> driving from Paris to Marseille takes 8-9 hours, the train
>> takes exactly 3 hours.


> Errr ... is that you doing the driving, or ... ?


Rather piloting, I suppose.

M.


  #31 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Mike, I see that you are a resident in the South of France...if you were
advising a visitor that loves food and wine...plus some local art...what
would you advice are the must sees if I am going to come in on train to
somewhere such as Perpignon, Avignon or even Aix en Provence and then rent
car for about 8 days and leave from Nice.

I really have no experience with South of France wines other than a few
CD-Papes.

Thanks for any suggestions....


"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> On 24 Feb 2004 17:18:17 GMT, (RV WRLee) wrote:
>
> >>These are the choices and they range from about 116 Miles from Avignon
> >>to about 330 miles from Avignon...I would go if it were only 2 hours
> >>away...but not 5-6.
> >>

> >
> >The drive from Avignon to Beaune would be more like 5-6 hours.

>
> Actually, it is not that long.
>
> >Beaune to central Paris is about 3-4 hours depending on traffic.

>
>
>
> Put it this way, to get an idea of France's transport system, driving
> from Paris to Marseille takes 8-9 hours, the train takes exactly 3
> hours.
>
> Mike
>
> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
> email link
http://www.tommasi.org/mymail



  #32 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mike Tommasi
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:35:48 GMT, "dick" > wrote:

>Mike, I see that you are a resident in the South of France...if you were
>advising a visitor that loves food and wine...plus some local art...what
>would you advice are the must sees if I am going to come in on train to
>somewhere such as Perpignon, Avignon or even Aix en Provence and then rent
>car for about 8 days and leave from Nice.


Sorry about the delay,

hard to chose, here are a few suggestions, randomly picked among many
other possible scenarios...

Starting at Perpignan, call Marc Parce and have him show you around
Domaine de la Rectorie (Banyuls, Cote Vermeille reds) and Preceptorie
de Centernach (Maury, super whites and reds). Go visit the Clos des
Fees of Herve Bizeul, top Roussillon stuff.

Head east, stop by Faugeres area and taste the incredible wines
Domaine Leon Barral, great wine at reasonable prices.

Go up to the gorges of the Herault river and see Saint Guilhem du
Desert, super medieval spot, not unknown but not crowded either. While
there drop by Aniane nearby for a taste of Daumas Gassac whites.

In the Languedoc, go visit Domaine d'Aupilhac of Sylvain Fadat,
another super wine at good prices. Head for the coast, to the small
village of Marseillan, and eat super well at a good price at Chez
Philippe (the wine list!). See nearby Sete while you are at it.

In the Costieres de Nimes area, go taste the wines at Chateau Mas
Neuf, and see the town of Nimes, great contemporary art museum.
Montpellier is worth a visit, nice atmosphere there too.

Head for Arles, great roman town, very enjoyable. Go eat in the small
town of Maillane near St Remy de Provence, at l'Oustalet MAianen.

Avignon? If you must go to the petty crime capital of France, go fast,
lock your care in a secure car park near the palace of the Popes, walk
fast to the palace (wonderful), then leave. Forget about dancing on
the bridge, not worth the risk. Other than the palace, stay away, the
rest is not that nice anyhow. Dont talk to anyone. ;-)

Rather go by Villeneuve les Avignon and dine at Le Prieure, fancy,
worth the expense.

Chateauneuf du Pape? Again, not a place where you want to leave your
car for too long without an armed escort, go taste at the Maison des
Producteurs just outside town, near La Nerthe, but check on the car
every so often... ;-)

Rather go to Isle sur Sorgue, specially on a Sunday during the huge
antiques market, and arrive EARLY. Go see the surreal Fontaine de
Vaucluse, a wonder of nature. See the abbey of Senanque, magic. Go
early, avoid the crowd. Go dine (and stay at?) The MAs des HErbes
Blanches at Joucas near Gordes, say hi to chef Eric Sapet for me. Or
go to Lourmarin and dine 2 stars at the Auberge la Feniere, husband
Guy is a bit overpowering but her cooking is wonderful.

Head back to Aix en Provence, see the old town, nice, eat at
L'Aix'quis in town or go fancy and eat at Relais Ste Victoire in
nearby Beaurecueil. Give a call, I am half an hour away, and so is
Bandol...

If you have time, head for a truly nice village north of Aix,
Forcalquier, try to reserve at Le Lapin Tant Pis (opens on reservation
only), see the remarkable medieval herb gardens at the nearby Prieure
de Salagon. Taste the wonders of Banon cheese.

On the way east from Aix, stop at the Thoronet Abbey, and then go see
the little village of Les Arcs, close to the highway.

From there head straight for the airport at Nice, the Cote d'Azur is a
most obnoxious mix of loud nouveau riche euro-trash in their Porsches,
the french blue-rinse crowd in their Peugeots and young louts from
Nice in their Renault 5s. Food is always too expensive, wine is always
overrated, and the coast has been totally ruined. Except for a superb
drive along the coast from St Raphael to Mandelieu. Or way up in the
hills.

HAve fun

Mike



Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail
  #33 (permalink)   Report Post  
jcoulter
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Mike Tommasi > wrote in
:

> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:35:48 GMT, "dick" > wrote:
>

edited for brevity not for editorial purpose

>>Mike, I see that you are a resident in the South of France...if you
>>were advising a visitor that loves food and wine...plus some local
>>art...what would you advice are the must sees if I am going to come in
>>on train to somewhere such as Perpignon, Avignon or even Aix en
>>Provence and then rent car for about 8 days and leave from Nice.

>
> Sorry about the delay,
>
> hard to chose, here are a few suggestions, randomly picked among many
> other possible scenarios...
>
> Starting at Perpignan, call Marc Parce and have him show you around
> Domaine de la Rectorie (Banyuls, Cote Vermeille reds) and Preceptorie
> de Centernach (Maury, super whites and reds). Go visit the Clos des
> Fees of Herve Bizeul, top Roussillon stuff.


Take in the Catalan feel of the city of Perpignan as well

>
> In the Costieres de Nimes area, go taste the wines at Chateau Mas
> Neuf, and see the town of Nimes, great contemporary art museum.

Maison Curee a better preserved arena than Arles, Tour Magnum Roman
Baths, and while in the area can he dare to miss Pont du Gard?

> Montpellier is worth a visit, nice atmosphere there too.
>
> Head for Arles, great roman town, very enjoyable. Go eat in the small
> town of Maillane near St Remy de Provence, at l'Oustalet MAianen.
>
> Avignon?
>
> Rather go by Villeneuve les Avignon and dine at Le Prieure, fancy,
> worth the expense.

The Hotel d'Europe is worth a stay if it is in your budget-it was good
enough for Napoleon, Elizabeth and Robert Browning and myself(2x). I
rather liked Avignon the Garden des Rocher offers amazing views.
>
> Chateauneuf du Pape? Again, not a place where you want to leave your
> car for too long without an armed escort, go taste at the Maison des
> Producteurs just outside town, near La Nerthe, but check on the car
> every so often... ;-)


I found the tastings in the town itself to be of more interest. The
stuff they poured at the Chateau (as such) or more properly tower was
very pedestrian. Perhaps we are not refering to the same place.
>
> Rather go to Isle sur Sorgue, specially on a Sunday during the huge
> antiques market, and arrive EARLY. Go see the surreal Fontaine de
> Vaucluse, a wonder of nature.


Only if doing the trip in the spring, if you are there in late summer
you have to take everyone's word for what it looks like in March.
(although having a river run pretty much straight out of the rocks is
pretty neat even in summer but when the fontaine is really a fontaine,
well, Ooh la la!


> Head back to Aix en Provence, see the old town, nice, eat at
> L'Aix'quis in town or go fancy and eat at Relais Ste Victoire in
> nearby Beaurecueil. Give a call, I am half an hour away, and so is
> Bandol...
>
>

Cezanne's atelier is a desination in Aix and every shop in Arles lays
claim to Gaugin. Aix is a great market town and the home of the outdoor
cafe. Does life get better? (well it was better before they played
around with the traffic patterns to make sure that tourists couldn't
find the center of it anymore.
  #34 (permalink)   Report Post  
dick
 
Posts: n/a
Default South of France Wine Areas

Mike, that you so very much. Perhaps when I visit if you are available we
can meet and you can be my guest to dinner.

Thanks again for your notes. If you have any other ideas please let me
know.

Much thanks,

dick neidich

"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:35:48 GMT, "dick" > wrote:
>
> >Mike, I see that you are a resident in the South of France...if you were
> >advising a visitor that loves food and wine...plus some local art...what
> >would you advice are the must sees if I am going to come in on train to
> >somewhere such as Perpignon, Avignon or even Aix en Provence and then

rent
> >car for about 8 days and leave from Nice.

>
> Sorry about the delay,
>
> hard to chose, here are a few suggestions, randomly picked among many
> other possible scenarios...
>
> Starting at Perpignan, call Marc Parce and have him show you around
> Domaine de la Rectorie (Banyuls, Cote Vermeille reds) and Preceptorie
> de Centernach (Maury, super whites and reds). Go visit the Clos des
> Fees of Herve Bizeul, top Roussillon stuff.
>
> Head east, stop by Faugeres area and taste the incredible wines
> Domaine Leon Barral, great wine at reasonable prices.
>
> Go up to the gorges of the Herault river and see Saint Guilhem du
> Desert, super medieval spot, not unknown but not crowded either. While
> there drop by Aniane nearby for a taste of Daumas Gassac whites.
>
> In the Languedoc, go visit Domaine d'Aupilhac of Sylvain Fadat,
> another super wine at good prices. Head for the coast, to the small
> village of Marseillan, and eat super well at a good price at Chez
> Philippe (the wine list!). See nearby Sete while you are at it.
>
> In the Costieres de Nimes area, go taste the wines at Chateau Mas
> Neuf, and see the town of Nimes, great contemporary art museum.
> Montpellier is worth a visit, nice atmosphere there too.
>
> Head for Arles, great roman town, very enjoyable. Go eat in the small
> town of Maillane near St Remy de Provence, at l'Oustalet MAianen.
>
> Avignon? If you must go to the petty crime capital of France, go fast,
> lock your care in a secure car park near the palace of the Popes, walk
> fast to the palace (wonderful), then leave. Forget about dancing on
> the bridge, not worth the risk. Other than the palace, stay away, the
> rest is not that nice anyhow. Dont talk to anyone. ;-)
>
> Rather go by Villeneuve les Avignon and dine at Le Prieure, fancy,
> worth the expense.
>
> Chateauneuf du Pape? Again, not a place where you want to leave your
> car for too long without an armed escort, go taste at the Maison des
> Producteurs just outside town, near La Nerthe, but check on the car
> every so often... ;-)
>
> Rather go to Isle sur Sorgue, specially on a Sunday during the huge
> antiques market, and arrive EARLY. Go see the surreal Fontaine de
> Vaucluse, a wonder of nature. See the abbey of Senanque, magic. Go
> early, avoid the crowd. Go dine (and stay at?) The MAs des HErbes
> Blanches at Joucas near Gordes, say hi to chef Eric Sapet for me. Or
> go to Lourmarin and dine 2 stars at the Auberge la Feniere, husband
> Guy is a bit overpowering but her cooking is wonderful.
>
> Head back to Aix en Provence, see the old town, nice, eat at
> L'Aix'quis in town or go fancy and eat at Relais Ste Victoire in
> nearby Beaurecueil. Give a call, I am half an hour away, and so is
> Bandol...
>
> If you have time, head for a truly nice village north of Aix,
> Forcalquier, try to reserve at Le Lapin Tant Pis (opens on reservation
> only), see the remarkable medieval herb gardens at the nearby Prieure
> de Salagon. Taste the wonders of Banon cheese.
>
> On the way east from Aix, stop at the Thoronet Abbey, and then go see
> the little village of Les Arcs, close to the highway.
>
> From there head straight for the airport at Nice, the Cote d'Azur is a
> most obnoxious mix of loud nouveau riche euro-trash in their Porsches,
> the french blue-rinse crowd in their Peugeots and young louts from
> Nice in their Renault 5s. Food is always too expensive, wine is always
> overrated, and the coast has been totally ruined. Except for a superb
> drive along the coast from St Raphael to Mandelieu. Or way up in the
> hills.
>
> HAve fun
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France
> email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail



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