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South of France Wine Areas
When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit wtih
some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few. What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12 day period so have lots of exploring time. Thanks for any suggestions. |
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South of France Wine Areas
"dick" > wrote in
link.net: > When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit > wtih some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few. > > What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and > spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a > 12 day period so have lots of exploring time. > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > At the risk of repeating myself, Gigondas, eat lunch at Les Florets just north of the town proper. There are many producers who have degustation, that is the word to watch for on signs. This is an area where potluck can throw up some nice surprises. |
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South of France Wine Areas
Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De
Pape...just on of same village? What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas? Serious question...I know my Burgs and Bordeaux but not much on Rhone. "jcoulter" > wrote in message . 227.77... > "dick" > wrote in > link.net: > > > When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit > > wtih some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few. > > > > What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and > > spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a > > 12 day period so have lots of exploring time. > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > > > > > > > At the risk of repeating myself, Gigondas, eat lunch at Les Florets just > north of the town proper. There are many producers who have degustation, > that is the word to watch for on signs. This is an area where potluck > can throw up some nice surprises. |
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dick wrote: > Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De > Pape...just on of same village? > > What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas? Dick, Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas, that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90 Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime. Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St. Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to visit there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either. Mark Lipton |
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South of France Wine Areas
"dick" > wrote in news:8A4_b.15786$hm4.8214
@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net: > Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De > Pape...just on of same village? > > What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas? As Mark said similar though Gigondas is primarily Grenache and Syrah (IIRC) with a dose of Mourvedre with the neighboring Vacqueyras, as indicated in recent thread, a bit less Grenache. Mark posted the following on 1-29: Here are my notes from a recent tasting put on by JC Mathes of J et R Selections (http://www.jetrselections.com), a smallish importer who specializes in wines from small domaines in the Rhône Valley, with a few domaines from elsewhere in France. All told, they import 140 different domaines, and IMO generally bring in wines of character and value. Last night's wines: ,other material snipped> 1999 La Tourade Vacqueyras nose: gamey , cherries, smoke palate: acidic on entry, giving way to cherry fruit and medium body, giving way to gaminess in the finish. Now this is more like it (at ~$15)! Made from 80/10/10 Grenache/Syrah/Mourvedre (as are all their Gigondas cuveés), it has that funkiness that I associate with Vacqueyras (guaranteed to turn Jean off in a heartbeat). Quite a nice value. 2000 La Tourade Vacqueyras nose: gamey, cherries palate: softer on entry than the '99, rich fruit in the midpalate before an acidic finish. Softer and simpler than the '99, but still a decent wine. Between the two, however, I preferred the '99. 1999 La Tourade Gigondas nose: slightly floral, with minerals, cherry and smoke palate: acidic entry, cherry, gaminess, with mild tannins and acid in the finish This cuvée was made from younger vines, but still has substance and character. Quite typical of Gigondas (IMO) and a decent bargain at $18. 2000 La Tourade Gigondas nose: cherry and minerals palate: acidic, slightly thinner and less appealing than the '99, but similar in character 1998 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux nose: deep cherry fruit palate: pencil lead, tannins in the midpalate, modestly fruity Similar in many ways to a decent CdP, this wine didn't have quite enough fruit to go with the still substantial tannins. 2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux nose: some heat, and oak(??) with deep cherry fruit palate: rich mouthfeel, lots of cherryish fruit and a tannic finish This was the biggest of the Gigondas stable, but also more expensive (~$24). This one might develop into something very interesting in a few years, though. 2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Morgan nose: licorice and volatile esters palate: licorice, cedar, red fruit and an oaky finish This, according to JC, is the domaine's bow to American taste: Gigondas aged in new barriques. JC only imports it because his customers love it (he doesn't). I'm with JC: this is closer to Zin or Aussie Shiraz than Gigondas. Of all the Gigondas tasted from this producer, the '99 regular cuvée and the 2000 Font des Aieux stood out. It would have been fun to try the '99 Font des Aieux as I generally preferred the wines from that year, but it wasn't available. 1999 Grand Tinel Chateauneuf du Pape nose: leather, tobacco and some fruit underneath palate: rich mouthfeel, cherry fruit, before a clean finish A very nice CdP selling for a Gigondas price (~$25). After the earlier wines, this came across as big and rich. Yum! 1999 Bois de Boursan Chateauneuf du Pape nose: gamey, leather and seaweed palate: slightly alcholic on entry, giving way to deep cherry fruit and an acidic finish Yes, this is the same wine I tasted last week! (5 wines from J et R at the last tasting) If you go back and read my notes from that tasting, you'll see why I'm not a professional wine reviewer. ;-) Good stuff, though (~$30). 2001 Domaine du Pégaü Chateauneuf du Pape nose: slightly corked (dammit! it was the last bottle, too), flowers and fruit beneath palate: big wine, lots of cherry and berryish fruit, tannic and tarry before a 60 second finish. WOW! I can only imagine what this wine would have been like if it hadn't been corked, but still impressive. I missed out on the 2000 Pégaü, but as I had it at last year's J et R tasting, I wasn't too torn up. People who had both were largely more favorable about the 2000, but it could simply be that it was a year softer (actually, the 2000 is probably bigger IIRC). The only thing not to like is the price ($48), but that's the price of success... Overall, a great tasting put on by a great guy (JC). The wines were generally of quite high quality, with lots of personality and very reasonably priced wines. As they are now distributed in over a dozen states in the US (see the website for names) these are wines worth looking for. Mark Lipton |
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thanks.
"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message ... > > > dick wrote: > > > Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De > > Pape...just on of same village? > > > > What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas? > > Dick, > Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic > differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas, > that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a > style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish > fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit > more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less > long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90 > Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime. > Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or > two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St. > Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small > detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to visit > there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas > Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either. > > Mark Lipton > |
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South of France Wine Areas
thanks.
"jcoulter" > wrote in message . 204.17... > "dick" > wrote in news:8A4_b.15786$hm4.8214 > @newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net: > > > Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De > > Pape...just on of same village? > > > > What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas? > > As Mark said similar though Gigondas is primarily Grenache and Syrah > (IIRC) with a dose of Mourvedre with the neighboring Vacqueyras, as > indicated in recent thread, a bit less Grenache. > > Mark posted the following on 1-29: > > Here are my notes from a recent tasting put on by JC Mathes of J et R > Selections (http://www.jetrselections.com), a smallish importer who > specializes in wines from small domaines in the Rhône Valley, with a few > domaines from elsewhere in France. All told, they import 140 different > domaines, and IMO generally bring in wines of character and value. Last > night's wines: > ,other material snipped> > > 1999 La Tourade Vacqueyras > nose: gamey , cherries, smoke > palate: acidic on entry, giving way to cherry fruit and medium body, > giving way to gaminess in the finish. > Now this is more like it (at ~$15)! Made from 80/10/10 > Grenache/Syrah/Mourvedre (as are all their Gigondas cuveés), it has that > funkiness that I associate with Vacqueyras (guaranteed to turn Jean off > in a heartbeat). Quite a nice value. > > 2000 La Tourade Vacqueyras > nose: gamey, cherries > palate: softer on entry than the '99, rich fruit in the midpalate before > an acidic finish. > Softer and simpler than the '99, but still a decent wine. Between the > two, however, I preferred the '99. > > 1999 La Tourade Gigondas > nose: slightly floral, with minerals, cherry and smoke > palate: acidic entry, cherry, gaminess, with mild tannins and acid in > the finish > This cuvée was made from younger vines, but still has substance and > character. Quite typical of Gigondas (IMO) and a decent bargain at $18. > > 2000 La Tourade Gigondas > nose: cherry and minerals > palate: acidic, slightly thinner and less appealing than the '99, but > similar in character > > 1998 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux > nose: deep cherry fruit > palate: pencil lead, tannins in the midpalate, modestly fruity > Similar in many ways to a decent CdP, this wine didn't have quite enough > fruit to go with the still substantial tannins. > > 2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux > nose: some heat, and oak(??) with deep cherry fruit > palate: rich mouthfeel, lots of cherryish fruit and a tannic finish > This was the biggest of the Gigondas stable, but also more expensive > (~$24). This one might develop into something very interesting in a few > years, though. > > 2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Morgan > nose: licorice and volatile esters > palate: licorice, cedar, red fruit and an oaky finish > This, according to JC, is the domaine's bow to American taste: Gigondas > aged in new barriques. JC only imports it because his customers love it > (he doesn't). I'm with JC: this is closer to Zin or Aussie Shiraz than > Gigondas. > > Of all the Gigondas tasted from this producer, the '99 regular cuvée and > the 2000 Font des Aieux stood out. It would have been fun to try the > '99 Font des Aieux as I generally preferred the wines from that year, > but it wasn't available. > > 1999 Grand Tinel Chateauneuf du Pape > nose: leather, tobacco and some fruit underneath > palate: rich mouthfeel, cherry fruit, before a clean finish > A very nice CdP selling for a Gigondas price (~$25). After the earlier > wines, this came across as big and rich. Yum! > > 1999 Bois de Boursan Chateauneuf du Pape > nose: gamey, leather and seaweed > palate: slightly alcholic on entry, giving way to deep cherry fruit and > an acidic finish > Yes, this is the same wine I tasted last week! (5 wines from J et R at > the last tasting) If you go back and read my notes from that tasting, > you'll see why I'm not a professional wine reviewer. ;-) Good stuff, > though (~$30). > > 2001 Domaine du Pégaü Chateauneuf du Pape > nose: slightly corked (dammit! it was the last bottle, too), flowers > and fruit beneath > palate: big wine, lots of cherry and berryish fruit, tannic and tarry > before a 60 second finish. > WOW! I can only imagine what this wine would have been like if it > hadn't been corked, but still impressive. I missed out on the 2000 > Pégaü, but as I had it at last year's J et R tasting, I wasn't too torn > up. People who had both were largely more favorable about the 2000, > but it could simply be that it was a year softer (actually, the 2000 is > probably bigger IIRC). The only thing not to like is the price ($48), > but that's the price of success... > > Overall, a great tasting put on by a great guy (JC). The wines were > generally of quite high quality, with lots of personality and very > reasonably priced wines. As they are now distributed in over a dozen > states in the US (see the website for names) these are wines worth > looking for. > > Mark Lipton |
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Yeah, guess I shouldn't have ****ed Ian off months ago...he would have been
a great resource for this trip. "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message ... > > > dick wrote: > > > Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De > > Pape...just on of same village? > > > > What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas? > > Dick, > Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic > differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas, > that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a > style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish > fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit > more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less > long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90 > Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime. > Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or > two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St. > Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small > detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to visit > there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas > Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either. > > Mark Lipton > |
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South of France Wine Areas
Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities. From
Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different areas. 100 Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ... I plan to take train from Barcelona to France...where in France I am not yet positive. Most Americans I understand go to Perpignan to pick up car to avoid huge drop charges. I was thinking go to Dijon/Beaune and drive back to Avigon and then Nice. I really love Burgs, have not developed much appreciation for Rhone other than Hermitage. CDP's are OK to me. But perhaps after staying in the region my tastes will devolop. "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message ... > > > dick wrote: > > > Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De > > Pape...just on of same village? > > > > What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas? > > Dick, > Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic > differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas, > that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a > style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish > fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit > more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less > long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90 > Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime. > Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or > two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St. > Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small > detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to visit > there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas > Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either. > > Mark Lipton > |
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South of France Wine Areas
"dick" > skrev i en meddelelse link.net... > When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit wtih > some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few. > > What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and > spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12 day > period so have lots of exploring time. > > Thanks for any suggestions. In Gigondas I recommend a visit to Domaine Raspail-Ay. Very good wine at reasonable price (10 euro) In Vacqueyras, try Domaine La Garrique. They make excellent and powerfull wines with good potential for ageing. Read more at http://www.vacqueyras.tm.fr/EN/Cellars/Lagarrigue.htm In Cdp, I have visited Clos de Papes, they sell at around 20 euro a very good CdP. Anders |
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alfaekko wrote: > > > In Gigondas I recommend a visit to Domaine Raspail-Ay. Very good wine at > reasonable price (10 euro) > > In Vacqueyras, try Domaine La Garrique. They make excellent and powerfull > wines with good potential for ageing. > Read more at http://www.vacqueyras.tm.fr/EN/Cellars/Lagarrigue.htm > > In Cdp, I have visited Clos de Papes, they sell at around 20 euro a very > good CdP. > Good suggestions. In CdP, I'd add Font de Michelle (good pricing), Domaine du Pegau (a personal favorite) and (though I've never been there) I'd try to get in to Clos du Caillou -- they're doing some great things these days. Ch. Beaucastel is also worth a visit if you want to see the closest thing to a CA tasting room to be found in those parts... Mark Lipton |
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Thanks for advice. I had found these on a web site-
http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/p...euf/index.html I am a bit nervous about accommodations. My Bro-In-Law used to be a yacht captain and suggested just book your arrival and departure cities for lodging...then stay at B&B's in route. (no reservations needed) If you want to explore longer in some locations it won't matter. So all I am going to do is book a nice place in Barcelona for the first 3-4 nights, then for the last 2-3 in Nice or Monaco....and the 8 nights nights or so in between we will try to stay near Avignon, Aix in Provance, and others along the way...I will book train to go from Barcelona to France...and have car reservations made, and some winery appointments. I am quite a planner and this will be stressful. I can just imagine a big convention in town and everything is booked for 100 miles. There I am in France, no where to stay. That would suck. At least I will eat and drink well. "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message ... > > > alfaekko wrote: > > > > > > > In Gigondas I recommend a visit to Domaine Raspail-Ay. Very good wine at > > reasonable price (10 euro) > > > > In Vacqueyras, try Domaine La Garrique. They make excellent and powerfull > > wines with good potential for ageing. > > Read more at http://www.vacqueyras.tm.fr/EN/Cellars/Lagarrigue.htm > > > > In Cdp, I have visited Clos de Papes, they sell at around 20 euro a very > > good CdP. > > > > Good suggestions. In CdP, I'd add Font de Michelle (good pricing), Domaine > du Pegau (a personal favorite) and (though I've never been there) I'd try to > get in to Clos du Caillou -- they're doing some great things these days. > Ch. Beaucastel is also worth a visit if you want to see the closest thing to > a CA tasting room to be found in those parts... > > Mark Lipton > |
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:05:50 GMT, "dick" > wrote:
>Thanks for advice. I had found these on a web site- >http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/p...euf/index.html > >I am a bit nervous about accommodations. My Bro-In-Law used to be a yacht >captain and suggested just book your arrival and departure cities for >lodging...then stay at B&B's in route. (no reservations needed) If you want >to explore longer in some locations it won't matter. > >So all I am going to do is book a nice place in Barcelona for the first 3-4 >nights, then for the last 2-3 in Nice or Monaco....and the 8 nights nights >or so in between we will try to stay near Avignon, Aix in Provance, and >others along the way...I will book train to go from Barcelona to >France...and have car reservations made, and some winery appointments. > Dick near Avignon B&B and some meals stay at La Marteliere, tell them I sent you and they'll charge you double ;-))) www.la-marteliere.com Good place, calm, country, close to everything (Fontaine de Vaucluse, Chateauneuf, Avignon, Isle sur Sorgue, Gordes. Great wine cellar and can give you greart advice, he's on FRBV. Mike Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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"dick" > wrote in message link.net... > When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit wtih > some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few. > > What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and > spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12 day > period so have lots of exploring time. > > Thanks for any suggestions. May I also suggest that you make a slight detour and have lunch at Restaurant Pic in Orange. You will have a fabulous meal. While there you could also visit and taste some Rhones at Chapoutier in Tain Hermitage. Cheers Ron Lel |
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On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 08:15:51 GMT, "Ron Lel" > wrote:
> >"dick" > wrote in message hlink.net... >> When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit >wtih >> some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few. >> >> What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and >> spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12 >day >> period so have lots of exploring time. >> >> Thanks for any suggestions. > >May I also suggest that you make a slight detour and have lunch at >Restaurant Pic in Orange. You will have a fabulous meal. While there you >could also visit and taste some Rhones at Chapoutier in Tain Hermitage. La Pyramide at Vienne is also back in fine shape. Mike Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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Looks nice. Thanks.
"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message ... > On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 01:05:50 GMT, "dick" > wrote: > > >Thanks for advice. I had found these on a web site- > >http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/p...euf/index.html > > > >I am a bit nervous about accommodations. My Bro-In-Law used to be a yacht > >captain and suggested just book your arrival and departure cities for > >lodging...then stay at B&B's in route. (no reservations needed) If you want > >to explore longer in some locations it won't matter. > > > >So all I am going to do is book a nice place in Barcelona for the first 3-4 > >nights, then for the last 2-3 in Nice or Monaco....and the 8 nights nights > >or so in between we will try to stay near Avignon, Aix in Provance, and > >others along the way...I will book train to go from Barcelona to > >France...and have car reservations made, and some winery appointments. > > > > Dick > > near Avignon B&B and some meals stay at La Marteliere, tell them I > sent you and they'll charge you double ;-))) > > www.la-marteliere.com > > Good place, calm, country, close to everything (Fontaine de Vaucluse, > Chateauneuf, Avignon, Isle sur Sorgue, Gordes. Great wine cellar and > can give you greart advice, he's on FRBV. > > Mike > > > > Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France > email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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Is Hermatige there in Orange? How close is it.
"Ron Lel" > wrote in message ... > > "dick" > wrote in message > link.net... > > When in Avignon I was going to journey to Chateneauf du Pape and visit > wtih > > some winerys. Reservations will be made in advance with a few. > > > > What other wine regions in South of France are worthy of a visit and > > spending some time. I will be driving from Perpignon to Nice over a 12 > day > > period so have lots of exploring time. > > > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > May I also suggest that you make a slight detour and have lunch at > Restaurant Pic in Orange. You will have a fabulous meal. While there you > could also visit and taste some Rhones at Chapoutier in Tain Hermitage. > > Cheers > Ron Lel > > |
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dick wrote: > Is Hermatige there in Orange? How close is it. Nope. Hermitage is in Tain-L'Hermitage, located on the other side of Valence from Orange. It's about 70 miles away as the crow drives... Mark Lipton |
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"dick" > wrote in message thlink.net>...
> Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities. From > Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different areas. 100 > Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ... > I believe that Beaune is the Capital of Burgundy. -Cherie |
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Salut/Hi cherie,
le/on 23 Feb 2004 07:57:32 -0800, tu disais/you said:- >"dick" > wrote in message thlink.net>... >> Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities. From >> Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different areas. 100 >> Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ... >> > >I believe that Beaune is the Capital of Burgundy. Not quite. Without going into the HUGE question of French administration, which is entirely different to that of the USA, you have the smallest administrative unit, which is called the commune, and is based around a village/town and has a town council and mayor. Several communes go to make a Canton, (whose relevance escapes me) and several cantons go to make up a Sous-prefecture (also of obscure importance). Next comes the "Department" and this is of crucial importance administratively. It has a general council, and the head honcho, who embodies the department to France and embodies the authority of the state and the President to the department, is called the Prefet (prefect). The most classic part of Burgundy is in the Department called "Côte d'Or" and the capital of the Côte d'Or is Dijon. However, in wine terms Burgundy also includes wines from Macon and Chablis, and Macon is in the department of the Saone et Loire, and Chablis is in the department of Yonne. ALL these departments are in the administrative _Region_ of Burgundy and that too has a capital which is, as Mike said, Dijon. However, Beaune is bang in the centre of the Cote d'Or, and is a cantonal capital, as wll as the most important town in wine terms. Whew!! -- All the Best Ian Hoare http://www.souvigne.com mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website |
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South of France Wine Areas
Thanks for you response. However I am still confused.
I was going to try to get to Burgundy as this is my favorite wine region. However for driving I was trying www.mappy.com to route myself in France. The choices for Beaune are as follows with the drop down menu- -Beaune (Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne) -Beaune (Sornac) -Beaune (Saint-Genès-Champanelle) -Beaune (Saint-Arcons-d'Allier) -Beaune (Saint-Étienne-du-Vigan) These are the choices and they range from about 116 Miles from Avignon to about 330 miles from Avignon...I would go if it were only 2 hours away...but not 5-6. So I assume it is the one that is just south of Dijon...but what do all these mean that are so far away from each other. That is why I ask if Beaune a State / Region? I remain confused. Ian Hoare > wrote in message >. .. > Salut/Hi cherie, > > le/on 23 Feb 2004 07:57:32 -0800, tu disais/you said:- > > >"dick" > wrote in message thlink.net>... > >> Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities. From > >> Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different areas. 100 > >> Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ... > >> > > > >I believe that Beaune is the Capital of Burgundy. > > Not quite. Without going into the HUGE question of French administration, > which is entirely different to that of the USA, you have the smallest > administrative unit, which is called the commune, and is based around a > village/town and has a town council and mayor. Several communes go to make a > Canton, (whose relevance escapes me) and several cantons go to make up a > Sous-prefecture (also of obscure importance). Next comes the "Department" > and this is of crucial importance administratively. It has a general > council, and the head honcho, who embodies the department to France and > embodies the authority of the state and the President to the department, is > called the Prefet (prefect). > > The most classic part of Burgundy is in the Department called "Côte d'Or" > and the capital of the Côte d'Or is Dijon. However, in wine terms Burgundy > also includes wines from Macon and Chablis, and Macon is in the department > of the Saone et Loire, and Chablis is in the department of Yonne. ALL these > departments are in the administrative _Region_ of Burgundy and that too has > a capital which is, as Mike said, Dijon. > > However, Beaune is bang in the centre of the Cote d'Or, and is a cantonal > capital, as wll as the most important town in wine terms. > > Whew!! |
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South of France Wine Areas
(Dick Neidich) wrote:
> I was going to try to get to Burgundy as this is my favorite wine > region. However for driving I was trying www.mappy.com to route > myself in France. > > The choices for Beaune are as follows with the drop down menu- > -Beaune (Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne) > -Beaune (Sornac) > -Beaune (Saint-Genès-Champanelle) > -Beaune (Saint-Arcons-d'Allier) > -Beaune (Saint-Étienne-du-Vigan) Sorry, but you don't seem to handle your tools correcly. In fact this planner gives you the right Beaune in first place ("Beaune 21200"), *only in addition* you can find the five little villages you mentioned. Simply have another try. Makes 382 kms, 372 of which on the autoroute or 3 hrs plus to drive, according to your speed. M. |
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South of France Wine Areas
(Dick Neidich) wrote in
om: > Thanks for you response. However I am still confused. > > I was going to try to get to Burgundy as this is my favorite wine > region. However for driving I was trying www.mappy.com to route > myself in France. > > The choices for Beaune are as follows with the drop down menu- > -Beaune (Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne) > -Beaune (Sornac) > -Beaune (Saint-Genès-Champanelle) > -Beaune (Saint-Arcons-d'Allier) > -Beaune (Saint-Étienne-du-Vigan) > > These are the choices and they range from about 116 Miles from Avignon > to about 330 miles from Avignon...I would go if it were only 2 hours > away...but not 5-6. > > So I assume it is the one that is just south of Dijon...but what do > all these mean that are so far away from each other. > > That is why I ask if Beaune a State / Region? I remain confused. > > Ian Hoare > wrote in message > >. .. >> Salut/Hi cherie, >> >> le/on 23 Feb 2004 07:57:32 -0800, tu disais/you said:- >> >> >"dick" > wrote in message >> rthlink.net>... >> >> Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities. >> >> From Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different >> >> areas. 100 Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ... >> >> >> > >> >I believe that Beaune is the Capital of Burgundy. >> >> Not quite. Without going into the HUGE question of French >> administration, which is entirely different to that of the USA, you >> have the smallest administrative unit, which is called the commune, >> and is based around a village/town and has a town council and mayor. >> Several communes go to make a Canton, (whose relevance escapes me) >> and several cantons go to make up a Sous-prefecture (also of obscure >> importance). Next comes the "Department" and this is of crucial >> importance administratively. It has a general council, and the head >> honcho, who embodies the department to France and embodies the >> authority of the state and the President to the department, is called >> the Prefet (prefect). >> >> The most classic part of Burgundy is in the Department called "Côte >> d'Or" and the capital of the Côte d'Or is Dijon. However, in wine >> terms Burgundy also includes wines from Macon and Chablis, and Macon >> is in the department of the Saone et Loire, and Chablis is in the >> department of Yonne. ALL these departments are in the administrative >> _Region_ of Burgundy and that too has a capital which is, as Mike >> said, Dijon. >> >> However, Beaune is bang in the centre of the Cote d'Or, and is a >> cantonal capital, as wll as the most important town in wine terms. >> >> Whew!! > I use viamichelin and have good results (I am a travel agent and plan trips for others) think of Beaune as Springfield now where is it? Viamichelin clearly shows that the majority of the Beaunes that you are seeing are beaune la such and such or such and such or les beaune. The first entry is the one you wnat Cote d'Or etc. |
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South of France Wine Areas
Thank you. I had figured it was the one just south of Dijon...but
what are all the others... One of them is half the distance and further to the west. Does this mean Beaune is a region? Thanks. Note--I was just using Mappy for the first time. It seems pretty good. Better than Mapquest here in the states. Michael Pronay > wrote in message >... > (Dick Neidich) wrote: > > > I was going to try to get to Burgundy as this is my favorite wine > > region. However for driving I was trying www.mappy.com to route > > myself in France. > > > > The choices for Beaune are as follows with the drop down menu- > > -Beaune (Saint-Michel-de-Maurienne) > > -Beaune (Sornac) > > -Beaune (Saint-Genès-Champanelle) > > -Beaune (Saint-Arcons-d'Allier) > > -Beaune (Saint-Étienne-du-Vigan) > > Sorry, but you don't seem to handle your tools correcly. > > In fact this planner gives you the right Beaune in first place > ("Beaune 21200"), *only in addition* you can find the five little > villages you mentioned. > > Simply have another try. > > Makes 382 kms, 372 of which on the autoroute or 3 hrs plus to drive, > according to your speed. > > M. |
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South of France Wine Areas
>These are the choices and they range from about 116 Miles from Avignon
>to about 330 miles from Avignon...I would go if it were only 2 hours >away...but not 5-6. > To put things into perspective, France is roughly the same size as Texas in terms of land mass. This is the reason that the TGV is so popular. The drive from Avignon to Beaune would be more like 5-6 hours. Beaune to central Paris is about 3-4 hours depending on traffic. Bi!! |
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South of France Wine Areas
On 24 Feb 2004 17:18:17 GMT, (RV WRLee) wrote:
>>These are the choices and they range from about 116 Miles from Avignon >>to about 330 miles from Avignon...I would go if it were only 2 hours >>away...but not 5-6. >> > >The drive from Avignon to Beaune would be more like 5-6 hours. Actually, it is not that long. >Beaune to central Paris is about 3-4 hours depending on traffic. Put it this way, to get an idea of France's transport system, driving from Paris to Marseille takes 8-9 hours, the train takes exactly 3 hours. Mike Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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South of France Wine Areas
"Mike Tommasi" > skrev i meddelandet
... > On 24 Feb 2004 17:18:17 GMT, (RV WRLee) wrote: > > >>These are the choices and they range from about 116 Miles from Avignon > >>to about 330 miles from Avignon...I would go if it were only 2 hours > >>away...but not 5-6. > >> > > > >The drive from Avignon to Beaune would be more like 5-6 hours. > > Actually, it is not that long. > > >Beaune to central Paris is about 3-4 hours depending on traffic. > > > > Put it this way, to get an idea of France's transport system, driving > from Paris to Marseille takes 8-9 hours, the train takes exactly 3 > hours. Errr ... is that you doing the driving, or ... ? Cheers Nils Gustaf -- Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se |
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South of France Wine Areas
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South of France Wine Areas
"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" > wrote:
>> Put it this way, to get an idea of France's transport system, >> driving from Paris to Marseille takes 8-9 hours, the train >> takes exactly 3 hours. > Errr ... is that you doing the driving, or ... ? Rather piloting, I suppose. M. |
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South of France Wine Areas
Mike, I see that you are a resident in the South of France...if you were
advising a visitor that loves food and wine...plus some local art...what would you advice are the must sees if I am going to come in on train to somewhere such as Perpignon, Avignon or even Aix en Provence and then rent car for about 8 days and leave from Nice. I really have no experience with South of France wines other than a few CD-Papes. Thanks for any suggestions.... "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message ... > On 24 Feb 2004 17:18:17 GMT, (RV WRLee) wrote: > > >>These are the choices and they range from about 116 Miles from Avignon > >>to about 330 miles from Avignon...I would go if it were only 2 hours > >>away...but not 5-6. > >> > > > >The drive from Avignon to Beaune would be more like 5-6 hours. > > Actually, it is not that long. > > >Beaune to central Paris is about 3-4 hours depending on traffic. > > > > Put it this way, to get an idea of France's transport system, driving > from Paris to Marseille takes 8-9 hours, the train takes exactly 3 > hours. > > Mike > > Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France > email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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South of France Wine Areas
On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:35:48 GMT, "dick" > wrote:
>Mike, I see that you are a resident in the South of France...if you were >advising a visitor that loves food and wine...plus some local art...what >would you advice are the must sees if I am going to come in on train to >somewhere such as Perpignon, Avignon or even Aix en Provence and then rent >car for about 8 days and leave from Nice. Sorry about the delay, hard to chose, here are a few suggestions, randomly picked among many other possible scenarios... Starting at Perpignan, call Marc Parce and have him show you around Domaine de la Rectorie (Banyuls, Cote Vermeille reds) and Preceptorie de Centernach (Maury, super whites and reds). Go visit the Clos des Fees of Herve Bizeul, top Roussillon stuff. Head east, stop by Faugeres area and taste the incredible wines Domaine Leon Barral, great wine at reasonable prices. Go up to the gorges of the Herault river and see Saint Guilhem du Desert, super medieval spot, not unknown but not crowded either. While there drop by Aniane nearby for a taste of Daumas Gassac whites. In the Languedoc, go visit Domaine d'Aupilhac of Sylvain Fadat, another super wine at good prices. Head for the coast, to the small village of Marseillan, and eat super well at a good price at Chez Philippe (the wine list!). See nearby Sete while you are at it. In the Costieres de Nimes area, go taste the wines at Chateau Mas Neuf, and see the town of Nimes, great contemporary art museum. Montpellier is worth a visit, nice atmosphere there too. Head for Arles, great roman town, very enjoyable. Go eat in the small town of Maillane near St Remy de Provence, at l'Oustalet MAianen. Avignon? If you must go to the petty crime capital of France, go fast, lock your care in a secure car park near the palace of the Popes, walk fast to the palace (wonderful), then leave. Forget about dancing on the bridge, not worth the risk. Other than the palace, stay away, the rest is not that nice anyhow. Dont talk to anyone. ;-) Rather go by Villeneuve les Avignon and dine at Le Prieure, fancy, worth the expense. Chateauneuf du Pape? Again, not a place where you want to leave your car for too long without an armed escort, go taste at the Maison des Producteurs just outside town, near La Nerthe, but check on the car every so often... ;-) Rather go to Isle sur Sorgue, specially on a Sunday during the huge antiques market, and arrive EARLY. Go see the surreal Fontaine de Vaucluse, a wonder of nature. See the abbey of Senanque, magic. Go early, avoid the crowd. Go dine (and stay at?) The MAs des HErbes Blanches at Joucas near Gordes, say hi to chef Eric Sapet for me. Or go to Lourmarin and dine 2 stars at the Auberge la Feniere, husband Guy is a bit overpowering but her cooking is wonderful. Head back to Aix en Provence, see the old town, nice, eat at L'Aix'quis in town or go fancy and eat at Relais Ste Victoire in nearby Beaurecueil. Give a call, I am half an hour away, and so is Bandol... If you have time, head for a truly nice village north of Aix, Forcalquier, try to reserve at Le Lapin Tant Pis (opens on reservation only), see the remarkable medieval herb gardens at the nearby Prieure de Salagon. Taste the wonders of Banon cheese. On the way east from Aix, stop at the Thoronet Abbey, and then go see the little village of Les Arcs, close to the highway. From there head straight for the airport at Nice, the Cote d'Azur is a most obnoxious mix of loud nouveau riche euro-trash in their Porsches, the french blue-rinse crowd in their Peugeots and young louts from Nice in their Renault 5s. Food is always too expensive, wine is always overrated, and the coast has been totally ruined. Except for a superb drive along the coast from St Raphael to Mandelieu. Or way up in the hills. HAve fun Mike Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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South of France Wine Areas
Mike Tommasi > wrote in
: > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:35:48 GMT, "dick" > wrote: > edited for brevity not for editorial purpose >>Mike, I see that you are a resident in the South of France...if you >>were advising a visitor that loves food and wine...plus some local >>art...what would you advice are the must sees if I am going to come in >>on train to somewhere such as Perpignon, Avignon or even Aix en >>Provence and then rent car for about 8 days and leave from Nice. > > Sorry about the delay, > > hard to chose, here are a few suggestions, randomly picked among many > other possible scenarios... > > Starting at Perpignan, call Marc Parce and have him show you around > Domaine de la Rectorie (Banyuls, Cote Vermeille reds) and Preceptorie > de Centernach (Maury, super whites and reds). Go visit the Clos des > Fees of Herve Bizeul, top Roussillon stuff. Take in the Catalan feel of the city of Perpignan as well > > In the Costieres de Nimes area, go taste the wines at Chateau Mas > Neuf, and see the town of Nimes, great contemporary art museum. Maison Curee a better preserved arena than Arles, Tour Magnum Roman Baths, and while in the area can he dare to miss Pont du Gard? > Montpellier is worth a visit, nice atmosphere there too. > > Head for Arles, great roman town, very enjoyable. Go eat in the small > town of Maillane near St Remy de Provence, at l'Oustalet MAianen. > > Avignon? > > Rather go by Villeneuve les Avignon and dine at Le Prieure, fancy, > worth the expense. The Hotel d'Europe is worth a stay if it is in your budget-it was good enough for Napoleon, Elizabeth and Robert Browning and myself(2x). I rather liked Avignon the Garden des Rocher offers amazing views. > > Chateauneuf du Pape? Again, not a place where you want to leave your > car for too long without an armed escort, go taste at the Maison des > Producteurs just outside town, near La Nerthe, but check on the car > every so often... ;-) I found the tastings in the town itself to be of more interest. The stuff they poured at the Chateau (as such) or more properly tower was very pedestrian. Perhaps we are not refering to the same place. > > Rather go to Isle sur Sorgue, specially on a Sunday during the huge > antiques market, and arrive EARLY. Go see the surreal Fontaine de > Vaucluse, a wonder of nature. Only if doing the trip in the spring, if you are there in late summer you have to take everyone's word for what it looks like in March. (although having a river run pretty much straight out of the rocks is pretty neat even in summer but when the fontaine is really a fontaine, well, Ooh la la! > Head back to Aix en Provence, see the old town, nice, eat at > L'Aix'quis in town or go fancy and eat at Relais Ste Victoire in > nearby Beaurecueil. Give a call, I am half an hour away, and so is > Bandol... > > Cezanne's atelier is a desination in Aix and every shop in Arles lays claim to Gaugin. Aix is a great market town and the home of the outdoor cafe. Does life get better? (well it was better before they played around with the traffic patterns to make sure that tourists couldn't find the center of it anymore. |
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South of France Wine Areas
Mike, that you so very much. Perhaps when I visit if you are available we
can meet and you can be my guest to dinner. Thanks again for your notes. If you have any other ideas please let me know. Much thanks, dick neidich "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message ... > On Wed, 25 Feb 2004 23:35:48 GMT, "dick" > wrote: > > >Mike, I see that you are a resident in the South of France...if you were > >advising a visitor that loves food and wine...plus some local art...what > >would you advice are the must sees if I am going to come in on train to > >somewhere such as Perpignon, Avignon or even Aix en Provence and then rent > >car for about 8 days and leave from Nice. > > Sorry about the delay, > > hard to chose, here are a few suggestions, randomly picked among many > other possible scenarios... > > Starting at Perpignan, call Marc Parce and have him show you around > Domaine de la Rectorie (Banyuls, Cote Vermeille reds) and Preceptorie > de Centernach (Maury, super whites and reds). Go visit the Clos des > Fees of Herve Bizeul, top Roussillon stuff. > > Head east, stop by Faugeres area and taste the incredible wines > Domaine Leon Barral, great wine at reasonable prices. > > Go up to the gorges of the Herault river and see Saint Guilhem du > Desert, super medieval spot, not unknown but not crowded either. While > there drop by Aniane nearby for a taste of Daumas Gassac whites. > > In the Languedoc, go visit Domaine d'Aupilhac of Sylvain Fadat, > another super wine at good prices. Head for the coast, to the small > village of Marseillan, and eat super well at a good price at Chez > Philippe (the wine list!). See nearby Sete while you are at it. > > In the Costieres de Nimes area, go taste the wines at Chateau Mas > Neuf, and see the town of Nimes, great contemporary art museum. > Montpellier is worth a visit, nice atmosphere there too. > > Head for Arles, great roman town, very enjoyable. Go eat in the small > town of Maillane near St Remy de Provence, at l'Oustalet MAianen. > > Avignon? If you must go to the petty crime capital of France, go fast, > lock your care in a secure car park near the palace of the Popes, walk > fast to the palace (wonderful), then leave. Forget about dancing on > the bridge, not worth the risk. Other than the palace, stay away, the > rest is not that nice anyhow. Dont talk to anyone. ;-) > > Rather go by Villeneuve les Avignon and dine at Le Prieure, fancy, > worth the expense. > > Chateauneuf du Pape? Again, not a place where you want to leave your > car for too long without an armed escort, go taste at the Maison des > Producteurs just outside town, near La Nerthe, but check on the car > every so often... ;-) > > Rather go to Isle sur Sorgue, specially on a Sunday during the huge > antiques market, and arrive EARLY. Go see the surreal Fontaine de > Vaucluse, a wonder of nature. See the abbey of Senanque, magic. Go > early, avoid the crowd. Go dine (and stay at?) The MAs des HErbes > Blanches at Joucas near Gordes, say hi to chef Eric Sapet for me. Or > go to Lourmarin and dine 2 stars at the Auberge la Feniere, husband > Guy is a bit overpowering but her cooking is wonderful. > > Head back to Aix en Provence, see the old town, nice, eat at > L'Aix'quis in town or go fancy and eat at Relais Ste Victoire in > nearby Beaurecueil. Give a call, I am half an hour away, and so is > Bandol... > > If you have time, head for a truly nice village north of Aix, > Forcalquier, try to reserve at Le Lapin Tant Pis (opens on reservation > only), see the remarkable medieval herb gardens at the nearby Prieure > de Salagon. Taste the wonders of Banon cheese. > > On the way east from Aix, stop at the Thoronet Abbey, and then go see > the little village of Les Arcs, close to the highway. > > From there head straight for the airport at Nice, the Cote d'Azur is a > most obnoxious mix of loud nouveau riche euro-trash in their Porsches, > the french blue-rinse crowd in their Peugeots and young louts from > Nice in their Renault 5s. Food is always too expensive, wine is always > overrated, and the coast has been totally ruined. Except for a superb > drive along the coast from St Raphael to Mandelieu. Or way up in the > hills. > > HAve fun > > Mike > > > > Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France > email link http://www.tommasi.org/mymail |
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