writes:

Please help a relative newcomer to wine (have enjoyed for 2 years, a glass
with dinner every night) ....Looking for inexpensive choices ($10-15 bottle
OR LESS IF POSSIBLE!) in Merlot and/or Grenache....
I've tried Merlots by Blackstone (liked), Kendall Jackson (yuck), Rodney
Strong (OK) ,
Estancia (fair), Mondavi (yuck), Columbia Crest (pretty good for short
money)...
In Grenache, I've only tried Calatayud's Vina Alarba (from Spain) and
enjoyed it.....
Shiraz was recommended to me but I tried several and didn't enjoy....seems I
like a full bodied, "Man's" wine, something with a fruity or maybe even a
leathery, chocolaty flair........
Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.......If I am to "step up" in price,
splurge every now and then, any suggestions there?
I know the old saying you get what you pay for, but I've also had experts
say that this adage doesn't always prove correct.......
Thoughts from the experts in this awesome group?

If you can email reply, even better


Thanks!!!!!!

Salut/Hi >,

le/on Wed, 7 Jan 2004 00:13:21 -0500, tu disais/you said:-

writes:
>
>Please help a relative newcomer to wine (have enjoyed for 2 years, a glass
>with dinner every night) ....Looking for inexpensive choices ($10-15 bottle
>OR LESS IF POSSIBLE!) in Merlot and/or Grenache....

In which country?

I live in France, so it is possible that any suggestions I might make would
be unhelpful. But we have English (with the best choice of wines in the
world), Australians, South Africans, Canadians Americans & New Zealanders,
here - to name but a few.

Help us to help you.


>Shiraz was recommended to me but I tried several and didn't enjoy....seems I
>like a full bodied, "Man's" wine, something with a fruity or maybe even a
>leathery, chocolaty flair......

Many Australian Shiraz are quite like that.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.

> wrote in message >...
> writes:
>
> Please help a relative newcomer to wine (have enjoyed for 2 years, a glass
> with dinner every night) ....Looking for inexpensive choices ($10-15 bottle
> OR LESS IF POSSIBLE!) in Merlot and/or Grenache....
> I've tried Merlots by Blackstone (liked), Kendall Jackson (yuck), Rodney
> Strong (OK) ,
> Estancia (fair), Mondavi (yuck), Columbia Crest (pretty good for short
> money)...
> In Grenache, I've only tried Calatayud's Vina Alarba (from Spain) and
> enjoyed it.....
> Shiraz was recommended to me but I tried several and didn't enjoy....seems I
> like a full bodied, "Man's" wine, something with a fruity or maybe even a
> leathery, chocolaty flair........
> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.......If I am to "step up" in price,
> splurge every now and then, any suggestions there?
> I know the old saying you get what you pay for, but I've also had experts
> say that this adage doesn't always prove correct.......
> Thoughts from the experts in this awesome group?
>

I'm not a big Merlot drinker, but I have enjoyed Falesco Merlot from
Italy. May be over your price range in your market.

For Grenache, I always look to Cote du Rhones. They are mostly
Grenache based. Jaboulet, Autard, Bernard, Perrin, St. Cosme are some
of the names I look for. All of these are <$10 USD in my area.

Andy

>For Grenache, I always look to Cote du Rhones. They are mostly
>Grenache based. Jaboulet, Autard, Bernard, Perrin, St. Cosme are some

I agree for the most part, but as a quibble I'm pretty sure the St. Cosme CdR
is mostly (if not all) Syrah. While some of the St Cosme line is pretty far
down the oaky/intl tendency, this is a very nice wine most vintages.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

amnspam (Dale Williams) wrote in message >...
> >For Grenache, I always look to Cote du Rhones. They are mostly
> >Grenache based. Jaboulet, Autard, Bernard, Perrin, St. Cosme are some
>
> I agree for the most part, but as a quibble I'm pretty sure the St. Cosme CdR
> is mostly (if not all) Syrah. While some of the St Cosme line is pretty far
> down the oaky/intl tendency, this is a very nice wine most vintages.
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

Yes. Sorry. In MY mind, I didn't really relate the two thoughts of
mostly Grenache and the producers. My bad.

Andy

Ian Hoare wrote:

> Salut/Hi >,
>
>
>>Shiraz was recommended to me but I tried several and didn't enjoy....seems I
>>like a full bodied, "Man's" wine, something with a fruity or maybe even a
>>leathery, chocolaty flair......
>
>
> Many Australian Shiraz are quite like that.
>

For a while some time ago I was looking for that kind of wine as well,
mainly trying find one among Oz Shirazes. No one quite got up to the
mark, however.

Then I pulled a bottle of 1998 Mas Igneus FA 206 (Spain, Priorat) from
storage and bingo! That was it, for me at least. Lots of fruit up front,
with quite a lot of acids and relatively strong, but not mouth-puckering
tannins to finish it off. Made mainly of Garnatxa (Catalan for Grenache,
I think), it should even fit the budget, if it's available at your location.

Cheers,

-Topi Kuusinen, Finland

> wrote in message
...
> writes:
>
> Please help a relative newcomer to wine (have enjoyed for 2 years, a glass
> with dinner every night) ....Looking for inexpensive choices ($10-15
bottle
> OR LESS IF POSSIBLE!) in Merlot and/or Grenache....
> I've tried Merlots by Blackstone (liked), Kendall Jackson (yuck), Rodney
> Strong (OK) ,
> Estancia (fair), Mondavi (yuck), Columbia Crest (pretty good for short
> money)...
> In Grenache, I've only tried Calatayud's Vina Alarba (from Spain) and
> enjoyed it.....

The others have offered some fairly sound advice. For the most part, it's
pretty tough to get a full-bodied merlot in this price range, but you and
others have offered some examples of the better ones in that range. I would
also offer up Bogle as a quality merlot for around $10.

> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.......If I am to "step up" in
price,
> splurge every now and then, any suggestions there?

If you step up to around $20 in price, Chateau St Jean, Fransiscan or
Stonestreet usually have pretty good quality, though not outstanding. Once
you really open up the pocketbooks some more, you open the door to all kinds
of merlot or grenache based wines.

> Shiraz was recommended to me but I tried several and didn't enjoy....seems
I
> like a full bodied, "Man's" wine, something with a fruity or maybe even a
> leathery, chocolaty flair........

Based on this description, I would steer you to Red Zinfandel. Not the
"wine-cooler-like" White Zinfandel, but the fairly often heavily
concentrated, higher alcohol, strong fruit and spice Red Zinfandel. In the
$15 range, you will find some very nice examples. A few of the many would
be Alderbrook OVC, St Francis Old Vine, Ridge 3 Valleys, Cline Ancient
Vines, Ravenswood Sonoma, etc.

I would also say that you might find many other types of wines that you will
like from all over the world. The only way to know is to experiment.
Usually the best way is to find a knowledgeable and truthful wine staffer in
a local shop and get recommendations from him/her.

> I know the old saying you get what you pay for, but I've also had experts
> say that this adage doesn't always prove correct.......
> Thoughts from the experts in this awesome group?
>

They're absoluely right! I think wine is the best example of "you don't
always get what you pay for", particularly due to the fact that wine is so
multi-dimensional, it tastes different to everyone.

Dark Helmet

> wrote in
:

> writes:
>
> Please help a relative newcomer to wine (have enjoyed for 2 years, a
> glass with dinner every night) ....Looking for inexpensive choices
> ($10-15 bottle OR LESS IF POSSIBLE!) in Merlot and/or Grenache....
> I've tried Merlots by Blackstone (liked), Kendall Jackson (yuck),
> Rodney Strong (OK) ,
> Estancia (fair), Mondavi (yuck), Columbia Crest (pretty good for short
> money)...
> In Grenache, I've only tried Calatayud's Vina Alarba (from Spain) and
> enjoyed it.....
> Shiraz was recommended to me but I tried several and didn't
> enjoy....seems I like a full bodied, "Man's" wine, something with a
> fruity or maybe even a leathery, chocolaty flair........
> Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.......If I am to "step up" in
> price, splurge every now and then, any suggestions there?
> I know the old saying you get what you pay for, but I've also had
> experts say that this adage doesn't always prove correct.......
> Thoughts from the experts in this awesome group?
>
> If you can email reply, even better
>
>
> Thanks!!!!!!
>
>
>

Vacqeyras wines from Southern Rhone are availabe at under 20USD as are
many Gigondas. IIRC the Vacqueyras has more Grenache but both are
Grenache based. (try if you can find it Domaine la Garrigue, my
sentimental favorite for the region)

wrote:

> writes:
>
> Please help a relative newcomer to wine (have enjoyed for 2 years, a glass
> with dinner every night) ....Looking for inexpensive choices ($10-15 bottle
> OR LESS IF POSSIBLE!) in Merlot and/or Grenache....
> I've tried Merlots by Blackstone (liked), Kendall Jackson (yuck), Rodney
> Strong (OK) ,
> Estancia (fair), Mondavi (yuck), Columbia Crest (pretty good for short
> money)...


Sawyer Cellars Merlot, which is relatively "reasonably-priced" for
mid-Valley juice at $34, is simply superb stuff.

Louis M. Martini's California Merlot was a consistent bargain at under
$7 for the longest time, but it's no longer available. Some of the '98
and '99 is still in the supply chain so it's worth looking for. It used
to be one of my favorite BBQ/quaffing reds and was always a kick to pour
blind for wine-geek friends. Take a look at your local Costco for some
(you *are* a Costco wine-shopper, right?)

Dana

In article >, jcoulter
> writes:

>Vacqeyras wines from Southern Rhone are availabe at under 20USD as are
>many Gigondas. IIRC the Vacqueyras has more Grenache but both are
>Grenache bas

My impression was that while (as you said) both are Grenache-based, it's the
Vacqueyras that tends to have more Syrah. But I'm not sure if I'm basing that
on real evidence.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

amnspam (Dale Williams) wrote in
:

> In article >,
> jcoulter > writes:
>
>>Vacqeyras wines from Southern Rhone are availabe at under 20USD as are
>>many Gigondas. IIRC the Vacqueyras has more Grenache but both are
>>Grenache bas
>
> My impression was that while (as you said) both are Grenache-based,
> it's the Vacqueyras that tends to have more Syrah. But I'm not sure if
> I'm basing that on real evidence.
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply
>

Never wanting to trust my memory I checked this one with Hugh Johnson
Pocket Wine Book 2003
Vacqueyras-full peppery Grenache based neighbor of Gigondas
Gigondas - . . .largely Grenache

so I guess you may be right or it may be one of those too close to
calls. But you do give me a chance to correct the vinyard it is Les
Garrigues, thank you.

On Mon, 12 Jan 2004 01:20:37 GMT, jcoulter > said:

] amnspam (Dale Williams) wrote in
] :
]
] > In article >,
] > jcoulter > writes:
] >
] >>Vacqeyras wines from Southern Rhone are availabe at under 20USD as are
] >>many Gigondas. IIRC the Vacqueyras has more Grenache but both are
] >>Grenache bas
] >
] > My impression was that while (as you said) both are Grenache-based,
] > it's the Vacqueyras that tends to have more Syrah. But I'm not sure if
] > I'm basing that on real evidence.
] > Dale
] >
] > Dale Williams
] > Drop "damnspam" to reply
] >
]
] Never wanting to trust my memory I checked this one with Hugh Johnson
] Pocket Wine Book 2003
] Vacqueyras-full peppery Grenache based neighbor of Gigondas
] Gigondas - . . .largely Grenache
]
Dale and Josh:

In Vacqueyras

red: at least 50% grenache, plus syrah mourvedre and cinsault.
rose: max 60% grenache, at least 15% cinsault, and mourvedre
white: clairette, grenache blanc and bourboulenc, not more that 50% of
rousanne, marsanne and viognier [!]

The rose and white can be quite nice, but production is small.

In Gigondas:

red: max 80% grenache, min 15% syrah and mourvedre (one assumes
in combination!). All the other Cotes du Rhone cepages except
carignan are authorized at 10% max.

rose: max 80% grenache, all other cotes du rhone authorized at 25% max.

So in effect one could make vacqueyras with more grenache than gigondas.

But in practice I think that Dale's palate is right. For example the Clos des
Cazaux cuvee des Tempiers is usually 50-50 grenache-syrah. No doubt there
are 100% grenache vacqueyras' to be found, if you looked hard enough, though.

Thank goodness these tests are open book!

-E
--
Emery Davis
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