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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Ranger
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

I decanted a bottle of Fonseca Vintage Porto, thinking that I would be able
to enjoy this with guests as they came over during the holidaze. We finished
off the last of it but my decanter has a heavy layer of sediment along the
sides. It's a hand-blown port decanter that defies my getting a barman's mop
inside. Can someone suggest any other ways of cleaning the inside?

Note: I've let it soak all day with mild soap and hot water. The sediment
laughed at that attempt.

The Ranger
--
"Grits are akin to Elmer Paste with less flavor and more sand."


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?


"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> I decanted a bottle of Fonseca Vintage Porto, thinking that I would be

able
> to enjoy this with guests as they came over during the holidaze. We

finished
> off the last of it but my decanter has a heavy layer of sediment along the
> sides. It's a hand-blown port decanter that defies my getting a barman's

mop
> inside. Can someone suggest any other ways of cleaning the inside?


A quick rinse with bleach diluted with warm water should remove it in
seconds. Rinse thoroughly afterwards. You don't want _any_ bleach residue
in your decanter to ruin the next wine you put in it.

Tom S


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Reka
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

I have seen brass ball bearings smaller than BBs which were sold at an
abominable price for swishing around the inside of a decanter to clean it.
I would think small ball bearings would do the same job, and cheaper.
--
Reka

I don't give a damn for a man that can only spell a word one way.
Mark Twain (1835 - 1910)

"The Ranger" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> I decanted a bottle of Fonseca Vintage Porto, thinking that I would be

able
> to enjoy this with guests as they came over during the holidaze. We

finished
> off the last of it but my decanter has a heavy layer of sediment along the
> sides. It's a hand-blown port decanter that defies my getting a barman's

mop
> inside. Can someone suggest any other ways of cleaning the inside?
>
> Note: I've let it soak all day with mild soap and hot water. The sediment
> laughed at that attempt.
>
> The Ranger
> --
> "Grits are akin to Elmer Paste with less flavor and more sand."
>
>



---
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  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Hagley
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

I would suggest that you use a tablet for denture cleaning. You can buy a
box at a US drugstore for about $2, and they work for me every time.

Mike Hagley
"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> I decanted a bottle of Fonseca Vintage Porto, thinking that I would be

able
> to enjoy this with guests as they came over during the holidaze. We

finished
> off the last of it but my decanter has a heavy layer of sediment along the
> sides. It's a hand-blown port decanter that defies my getting a barman's

mop
> inside. Can someone suggest any other ways of cleaning the inside?
>
> Note: I've let it soak all day with mild soap and hot water. The sediment
> laughed at that attempt.
>
> The Ranger
> --
> "Grits are akin to Elmer Paste with less flavor and more sand."
>
>



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Da' Bear
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

I've always used 1/4 cup of rice, and then added a water/ vinegar
mixture. The rice acts like little scrubbers.
--
Bear Graves
"Unlike the other Vikings, he did not throw babies into the air and
catch them on the end of his spear. For this reason, he was known as
"Child Friend".
-Landnamabok: Icelandic Saga



  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jason Massey
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

My general understanding is that crystal should never be allowed to have
wine rest for a long period of time. Crystal is not a smooth surface, and
your bound to get stains. This has happened to my Riedel Sommelier series
glasses (well at least one or two) after I left some heavy reds overnight.

The torture of using a cleansing product is that it is likely to embed in
the crystal the same way the wine has embedded. The best suggestion I read
might be the rice and vinegar. Personally, I would pick a $2 wine and rinse
the decanter several times to get out any notion of a cleansing product.

My number one decanter issue is drying . Still haven't done my better than
hanging upside down and letting nature dry it out.

good luck cleaning.
"The Ranger" > wrote in message
...
> I decanted a bottle of Fonseca Vintage Porto, thinking that I would be

able
> to enjoy this with guests as they came over during the holidaze. We

finished
> off the last of it but my decanter has a heavy layer of sediment along the
> sides. It's a hand-blown port decanter that defies my getting a barman's

mop
> inside. Can someone suggest any other ways of cleaning the inside?
>
> Note: I've let it soak all day with mild soap and hot water. The sediment
> laughed at that attempt.
>
> The Ranger
> --
> "Grits are akin to Elmer Paste with less flavor and more sand."
>
>



  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
grazzc
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

We use denture tablets that contain bicarbonate. Dont use that tablets that
contain whitening agents as they contain bleach. Fill the decanter with warm
but not hot water then leave a denture tablet overnight soaking, and by the
morning you will be left with a nice clean decanter. Rinse thoroughly with
warm water to remove any residue and leave to dry upside down.

grazza


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Ranger
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

Tom S > wrote in message
. com...
===> Port stain in Decanter <===
> A quick rinse with bleach diluted with warm water should
> remove it in seconds. Rinse thoroughly afterwards. You
> don't want _any_ bleach residue in your decanter to ruin
> the next wine you put in it.


I'd first thought of using bleach (a tsp.) and letting it set for 30-60
minutes, then rinsing it "forever." I'm just not convinced that I'd be able
to remove the bleach with enough certainty. [<shrug> Over-paranoia, I know.]

The Ranger


  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Ranger
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

Hagley > suggested in message
...
> > Suggestions for removing port stain from port decanter?

> I would suggest that you use a tablet for denture cleaning.


<blink>

I'd've never thought to use this product; thanks!

The Ranger


  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Ranger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Decanter Cleaning?

Da' Bear > wrote in message
...
> I've always used 1/4 cup of rice, and then added a water/ vinegar
> mixture. The rice acts like little scrubbers.


Thanks! My uncle, the barman, clicked his tongue when I asked for his advice
and suggested those items.

The Ranger




  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
jcoulter
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

"The Ranger" > wrote in
:

> Da' Bear > wrote in message
> ...
>> I've always used 1/4 cup of rice, and then added a water/ vinegar
>> mixture. The rice acts like little scrubbers.

>
> Thanks! My uncle, the barman, clicked his tongue when I asked for his
> advice and suggested those items.
>
> The Ranger
>
>
>



baking soda in solution will act as a mild bleach as well, and leaves no
nasty residue.
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Ranger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Decanter Cleaning?

Jason Massey > wrote in message
...
> My general understanding is that crystal should never be allowed
> to have wine rest for a long period of time. Crystal is not a smooth
> surface, and your bound to get stains. This has happened to my
> Riedel Sommelier series glasses (well at least one or two) after I left
> some heavy reds overnight.


I don't think it's crystal, at least not the fancy leaded crystal that I've
seen advertised.

I think I'll try the rice/vinegar first and if that doesn't work, I'll move
on to the denture cleaner.

Many thanks for taking the time to post your thoughts and experiences.

The Ranger


  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Cwdjrx _
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

Several of the methods suggested will work for at least some stains.
More severe stains that produce etching probably can be completely
removed only by polishing the glass on the inside using shot and very
fine grinding and polishing compounds and a machne that rotates the
decanter for a long time. Unless you polish rocks as a hobby, this is
something for a professional, and would be worthwhile only for a very
expensive item.

In the US, there is a commercial product called CLR that often will
remove many calcum-lime-rust types of stains(hence the name). It can
clean up coffee pots that can become very stained. It is widely
available in some home improvement stores and supermarkets. Be sure to
read the instructions carefully. It contains glycolic,sulfamic, and
citric acids as well as surfactants. If it works, it works fairly fast
and long contact is not suggested for most surfaces. I have used it on
coffee pots and a rust stain on a bath tub, but not on a decanter yet.
This might be a good last resort if milder cleaning methods fail and you
can not justify the expense of professional polishing.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mark Lipton
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?



The Ranger wrote:

> I'd first thought of using bleach (a tsp.) and letting it set for 30-60
> minutes, then rinsing it "forever." I'm just not convinced that I'd be able
> to remove the bleach with enough certainty. [<shrug> Over-paranoia, I know.]


Not really paranoia at all. The chlorine smell is *very* hard to totally
remove. However, if you've got access to winemaking supplies, you can rinse
with a solution of sodium metabisulfite, which will quench the bleach and
eliminate all traces of it. Having said that, I'd still be wary of using
bleach and opt instead for peroxide solution, again rinsing first with
metabisfulite and then with distilled water.

Mark Lipton
Paranoiac chemophobe -- not!

  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mark Lipton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Decanter Cleaning?



Cwdjrx _ wrote:

> In the US, there is a commercial product called CLR that often will
> remove many calcum-lime-rust types of stains(hence the name). It can
> clean up coffee pots that can become very stained. It is widely
> available in some home improvement stores and supermarkets. Be sure to
> read the instructions carefully. It contains glycolic,sulfamic, and
> citric acids as well as surfactants. If it works, it works fairly fast
> and long contact is not suggested for most surfaces. I have used it on
> coffee pots and a rust stain on a bath tub, but not on a decanter yet.
> This might be a good last resort if milder cleaning methods fail and you
> can not justify the expense of professional polishing.


IIRC, you've quite knowledgable about chemistry, so forgive me if I state
the obvious: the CLR is designed to remove inorganic salts through
chelation and probably won't do much on the presumably organic residue left
in a decanter. The surfactants might possibly help loosen the deposits,
but then so too would alcohol or soap.

Mark Lipton



  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
The Ranger
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

Mark Lipton > confirmed my worries in message
...
> > I'd first thought of using bleach (a tsp.) and letting it set for
> > 30-60 minutes, then rinsing it "forever." I'm just not convinced
> > that I'd be able to remove the bleach with enough certainty.
> > [<shrug> Over-paranoia, I know.]

>
> Not really paranoia at all. The chlorine smell is *very* hard to
> totally remove. However, if you've got access to winemaking
> supplies, you can rinse with a solution of sodium metabisulfite,
> which will quench the bleach and eliminate all traces of it. Having
> said that, I'd still be wary of using bleach and opt instead for
> peroxide solution, again rinsing first with metabisfulite and then
> with distilled water.


I do have access to those items but have discovered that white vinegar and
rice, while not only handy, worked in a record 15 seconds.

The Ranger


  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Cwdjrx _
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

The CLR of course would not remove organics directly. However if there
is an inorganic coating of calcium compounds and such, this coat does
tend to pick up stains - especially in a coffee pot. If you can remove
the inorganic coat, likely much of the organic stain goes with it. At
least that is what seems to happen with a coffee pot where most of the
dark stain on the inorganic deposit likely is organic. If you wash a
decanter, especially with soap rather than detergents, hard water may
produce some film. If the decanter is well rinsed in hard water, but a
bit of water remains in it when it dries, this may also build up some
inorgaic film. In a hard water area I would suggest using detergents,
nonionic when possible, to wash a decanter and then using distilled
water as a final rinse. Distilled water is qute cheap at the grocery,
but be sure to smell it. I have found some that had a bit of smell.

Of course the old classic chemistry lab hot cleaning soution made from
concentrated sulfuric acid, with a chrominum containing compound, would
be much better. However, even if the compounds to make this solution
could be bought for home use, this wold be very dangerous for anyone
without proper safety training and protective equipment. And since
decanters usually are not made of heat-proof glass, the decanter might
have to be slowly warmed to about the temperature of the hot cleaning
solution, before using it, to avoid possible breakage.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
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  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mark Lipton
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?



Cwdjrx _ wrote:

> The CLR of course would not remove organics directly. However if there
> is an inorganic coating of calcium compounds and such, this coat does
> tend to pick up stains - especially in a coffee pot. If you can remove
> the inorganic coat, likely much of the organic stain goes with it. At
> least that is what seems to happen with a coffee pot where most of the
> dark stain on the inorganic deposit likely is organic.


I get your point now. However, I suspect that (unlike the case of the
coffee pot) deposits on the inside of the decanter are dried wine that
would be almost free of scale or lime. However, as you say, there may be
other sources of the deposits that would certainly be amenable to your
treatment.

> If you wash a
> decanter, especially with soap rather than detergents, hard water may
> produce some film. If the decanter is well rinsed in hard water, but a
> bit of water remains in it when it dries, this may also build up some
> inorgaic film. In a hard water area I would suggest using detergents,
> nonionic when possible, to wash a decanter and then using distilled
> water as a final rinse. Distilled water is qute cheap at the grocery,
> but be sure to smell it. I have found some that had a bit of smell.


As a resident of an area with incredibly hard tapwater (a glass of tap
water has a pH of ~9 and if left standing 12 hours will throw a thick
deposit of rust), I face this issue constantly. I wash my glassware with
hot tap water followed *immediately* by distilled water, then dry with a
linen towel. That almost eliminates the deposits, but I am still
ocassionally tempted to take a particularly recalcitrant Riedel fishbowl
into lab for a "cleaning solution" treatment... ;-)

>
>
> Of course the old classic chemistry lab hot cleaning soution made from
> concentrated sulfuric acid, with a chrominum containing compound, would
> be much better. However, even if the compounds to make this solution
> could be bought for home use, this wold be very dangerous for anyone
> without proper safety training and protective equipment. And since
> decanters usually are not made of heat-proof glass, the decanter might
> have to be slowly warmed to about the temperature of the hot cleaning
> solution, before using it, to avoid possible breakage.


As you probably know, chromium VI salts are potent carcinogens, so even I
would not attempt to use chromic acid to clean any drinking vessel. In
fact (you may know this already) even academic labs -- usually the last to
succumb to any regulatory laws -- have been forbidden to use chromic acid
cleaning solutions for over a decade now. OTOH, aqua regia would do quite
a fine job of removing most any deposit from even the most delicate glass
(however, using it on lead crystal would be a Very Bad Idea) and should not
present any human health hazard if properly removed afterward by rinsing.
Still, I don't see myself doing this to my decanters any time soon...

Mark Lipton

  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Cwdjrx _
 
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Default Decanter Cleaning?

I knew that use of chromium salts had been restricted, but I am
surprised that it has even extended to the lab for cleaning solution.
The concern probably is that the chromium salts will be flushed down the
drain and polute a river from which drinking water is drawn downstream.
In the lab, chromium salts are one of the less bothersome compounds that
one works with. At one time I worked with several metallo-organic
compounds including those including chromium, mercury, vanadium, nickel,
etc. Some of the mercury compounds are especially toxic. Some can easily
be absorbed through the skin, and it takes very little to send you to
the morgue.

I have been retired a few years, so I did not hear about the ban on
cleaning solution in labs. I did read that a local petroleum company had
to quit discarding photographic solutions down the drain without
treatment, because of the silver content. I actually did very little
lab wet chemistry except early on. I was one of those people who was
accused of trying to get a physics degree in the chemistry department,
since most of my work involved complex instruments, computers, math, and
such.

I do find it amusing that even the smallest traces of some things the
public thinks of as "chemicals" are banned. Yet people continue to use
smoked and fire-seared meat when it is well know that smoke and charred
meat contain a variety of carcinogens. It seems that if something is
"natural" there often is little concern. Yet botulism toxin is natural
and only a small bottle of it would be enough to kill thousands, if not
millions, of people. Or getting back to wine, too much alcohol can
produce undesirable long term health effects, but most do not cry out to
ban wine because a few abuse it and harm their health. Of course I am
well aware that where I live there is a small minority that would ban
all alcohol and send sellers and users to jail, if they had their way



My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase
from my email address. Then add . I do not
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  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mark Lipton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Vastly OT: Chemicals (was Decanter Cleaning?)



Cwdjrx _ wrote:

> I knew that use of chromium salts had been restricted, but I am
> surprised that it has even extended to the lab for cleaning solution.
> The concern probably is that the chromium salts will be flushed down the
> drain and polute a river from which drinking water is drawn downstream.


Correct. How universal the ban is I cannot say, nor at what level the
proscription arises, but I know of no researcher who stills uses chromate
cleaning solutions.

>
> In the lab, chromium salts are one of the less bothersome compounds that
> one works with. At one time I worked with several metallo-organic
> compounds including those including chromium, mercury, vanadium, nickel,
> etc. Some of the mercury compounds are especially toxic. Some can easily
> be absorbed through the skin, and it takes very little to send you to
> the morgue.


Indeed! Small organomercurials are incredibly dangerous things (witness
Minamata for an exceptionally tragic RL demo). Within the last two years,
a Chemistry Professor (NMR) died from mercury poisoning produced by a
dimethylmercury NMR standard. She was wearing two layers of latex glove,
but a drop spilled on her glove traveled through both layers and skin fast
enough to kill her from acute heavy metal toxicity. FWIW,
trimethylstannanes are every bit as bad for us organikers and are volatile
to boot!

>
>
> I have been retired a few years, so I did not hear about the ban on
> cleaning solution in labs. I did read that a local petroleum company had
> to quit discarding photographic solutions down the drain without
> treatment, because of the silver content.


Silver as a pollutant? Most people would gladly deal with that little
problem, I think. Perhaps they were using cyanide in their processing?

> I actually did very little
> lab wet chemistry except early on. I was one of those people who was
> accused of trying to get a physics degree in the chemistry department,
> since most of my work involved complex instruments, computers, math, and
> such.


I was one who spent half my time at the computer and half in the lab.
Still do today, matter of fact. Unless you took early retirement, you must
have been among the first generation of scientist to use computers (or I
can't do simple arithmetic).

>
>
> I do find it amusing that even the smallest traces of some things the
> public thinks of as "chemicals" are banned.


Even worse, the word "chemical" itself is now a perjorative, despite the
reality that we are nothing but a huge collection of chemicals assembled in
a particular way!

> Yet people continue to use
> smoked and fire-seared meat when it is well know that smoke and charred
> meat contain a variety of carcinogens.


Ah, but Bruce Ames (inventor of the Ames test for "carcinogenicity") has
shown that even a banana will contain over a hundred different
carcinogens. This in turn has raised the question of whether we as
organisms have evolved to detoxify certain mutagens in our diet. Animal
studies have lent support to that idea, though even a rat is only a so-so
model for human digestion and metabolism. So, despite the potent
mutagenicity of benzo[a]pyrene in soot, there is little to no evidence of
its ability to cause cancer in humans. One argument is that 10-20,000
years of cooking food over open fires has weeded out the susceptible
individuals from the population. Now, if only we could get rats to BBQ
we'd have a strong answer! ;-)

> It seems that if something is
> "natural" there often is little concern. Yet botulism toxin is natural
> and only a small bottle of it would be enough to kill thousands, if not
> millions, of people. Or getting back to wine, too much alcohol can
> produce undesirable long term health effects, but most do not cry out to
> ban wine because a few abuse it and harm their health. Of course I am
> well aware that where I live there is a small minority that would ban
> all alcohol and send sellers and users to jail, if they had their way


And alas in this country "natural" now carries with it an aura of
healthfulness, hence the advent of "nutraceuticals" as an essentially
unregulated bastion of quackery and charlatans. Chemophobes of the world
beware!

Mark Lipton



  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Cwdjrx _
 
Posts: n/a
Default Vastly OT: Chemicals (was Decanter Cleaning?)

I started work at 24 and took early retirement when the place I worked
closed. Yes I go way back with computers. I even used a Bendix G15 and
long forgotten languages such as Intercom and Algo. Then I used the IBM
360 and 370 series with Fortran. Others followed. I have been through
punched paper tapes and cards, large magnetic tapes, casette tapes, etc.
I was so tired of using computers when I retired that I did not bother
to even buy a PC until about a year ago. Some in the computer department
of a local petroeum company called early PC's "pornographs" when the
internet became widely available for PCs. Of course they have PCs all
over the company now, even though they have the top of the line Cray for
big number crunching.

Besides alt.food.wine, about the only wine use I have for the PC is to
keep track of the wine I have. I have my wine list on web pages, and
wrote them in the latest W3C xhtml 1.1. I have played around with a lot
of JavaScript in dhtml applications, etc.

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