My wife purchased a wine from Germany with which I am unfamiliar and
wondered if anyone had any information on it.

The wine is from Weingut Erich Braun & Sohn. It is a Gewurztraminer
Spatlese, and is labeled as 1999er Edesheimer Ordensgut.

Thanks for any help!

What region? I don't know where Edesheim is. There's a Braun in Rheinhessen.
Maybe Anders. Micheal, or someone has more info. As a gross generality,
however, Gewürz is a lower acid grape, and as '99 was a somewhat low-acid
vintage, I'd say drink now.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

In article >, "CabFan"
> writes:

>The wine is from Weingut Erich Braun & Sohn. It is a Gewurztraminer
>Spatlese, and is labeled as 1999er Edesheimer Ordensgut.

Hopefully Anders, Michael, or the others more knowledgable about German wines
can be specific. I can't offer any firsthand knowledge. What region is this- I
don't know a Edesheim. I think there's Braun in Rheinhessen. What I will say
was that overall '99 tended to be a low-acid vintage. And as Gewürz tends to be
a lower-acid grape than say Riesling, I'd aim for drinking sooner rather than
later.

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Edesheim is in the Pfalz wine region of Germany. It is what is known as
"the southern wine road" which runs from Neustadt to the French border at
Schweigen. Ordensgut is the "grosslage" or larger collective vineyard sites
surrounding Edesheim..

The Gewurztraminer grape has a rather spicy aroma and flavour, and can carry
spicier and heavier foods. Spatlese means that the wine is of premium
quality - a "pradikat" wine" or a wine which has special attributes.
Pradikat also means that no sugar can be added (chaptalization). Spatlese
means "late harvest" as the berries have been left on the vine to ripen for
about a week longer than regular picking.

You did not mention whether the wine is halbtrocken or trocken - semi-dry or
dry. Often, spatlese wines are good candidates for making into a semi-dry or
dry style as the increased sugar levels in the berries will result in higher
alcohol levels. If the wine is in the range of 12-13% alcohol, it will
likely be a trocken, if it is in the range of 11-12% it will likely be a
halbtrocken, and if it is in the range of 8-10% it will be a sweeter wine
that would serve as a fine aperatif.

Hope this helps.


"CabFan" > wrote in message
.. .
> My wife purchased a wine from Germany with which I am unfamiliar and
> wondered if anyone had any information on it.
>
> The wine is from Weingut Erich Braun & Sohn. It is a Gewurztraminer
> Spatlese, and is labeled as 1999er Edesheimer Ordensgut.
>
> Thanks for any help!

Wow. I didn't now that the alcohol % can be a telltale factor in a Germans
sweetness level.

Thanks for the info.

"Bob McDonald" > wrote in message
...
> Edesheim is in the Pfalz wine region of Germany. It is what is known as
> "the southern wine road" which runs from Neustadt to the French border at
> Schweigen. Ordensgut is the "grosslage" or larger collective vineyard
sites
> surrounding Edesheim..
>
> The Gewurztraminer grape has a rather spicy aroma and flavour, and can
carry
> spicier and heavier foods. Spatlese means that the wine is of premium
> quality - a "pradikat" wine" or a wine which has special attributes.
> Pradikat also means that no sugar can be added (chaptalization). Spatlese
> means "late harvest" as the berries have been left on the vine to ripen
for
> about a week longer than regular picking.
>
> You did not mention whether the wine is halbtrocken or trocken - semi-dry
or
> dry. Often, spatlese wines are good candidates for making into a semi-dry
or
> dry style as the increased sugar levels in the berries will result in
higher
> alcohol levels. If the wine is in the range of 12-13% alcohol, it will
> likely be a trocken, if it is in the range of 11-12% it will likely be a
> halbtrocken, and if it is in the range of 8-10% it will be a sweeter wine
> that would serve as a fine aperatif.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
>
> "CabFan" > wrote in message
> .. .
> > My wife purchased a wine from Germany with which I am unfamiliar and
> > wondered if anyone had any information on it.
> >
> > The wine is from Weingut Erich Braun & Sohn. It is a Gewurztraminer
> > Spatlese, and is labeled as 1999er Edesheimer Ordensgut.
> >
> > Thanks for any help!
>
>




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"John Oglesby" > wrote:

> Wow. I didn't now that the alcohol % can be a telltale factor
> in a Germans sweetness level.

Well, it's only a very rough indicator. More precisely,
"Halbtrocken" and "Trocken" wines will *always* carry one of these
designations on the label. The absence of one of these terms is a
100 % indicator that the content is definitely on the sweet(ish)
side.

M.

"CabFan" > wrote in message
.. .
> My wife purchased a wine from Germany with which I am unfamiliar and
> wondered if anyone had any information on it.
>
> The wine is from Weingut Erich Braun & Sohn. It is a Gewurztraminer
> Spatlese, and is labeled as 1999er Edesheimer Ordensgut.
>
> Thanks for any help!
Edesheim is a village in southern central Rheinpfalz, an area west of the
Rhine. The Ordensgut is the generic name for 12 vineyards in the
surrounding area of Edesheim and neighboring villages, none of which carries
any special distinction.
This wine is probably a simple sweetish one for early drinking - but could
be quite drinkable. Open soon and serve chilled.
Anders

I kind of dissagree, the terms Trocken and Halbtrocken are not always
used- the new terms for dry wines include Classic and Erstes Gewachs
(First growth). I recently purchased a Carl Loewen Classic and it has
%12 alc. If you are able to see the alcohol levels it is the best
indicator of dryness. Also, wines from the Mosel tend to ripen more
slowly so they tend to have lower alc levels at the same sweetness
levels.I love German wines because of the endless number of sites and
styles, let's try them all!

"John Oglesby" > wrote in message
...
> Wow. I didn't now that the alcohol % can be a telltale factor in a
Germans
> sweetness level.
>
As Michael says, the decisive factor is the appearance of the words
Trocken=dry or Halbtrocken=semi-dry on the label, indicating levels of
residual sugar. Trocken will mean up to 7 grammes a litre of sugar,
halbtrocken up to 17 or thereabouts (don't have the exact figures at hand).
There is also another designation of a newer date, namely "feinherb" for the
interval 17-25 gr/l.
If the label does not include any of these words the wine is "lieblich"
(roughly "lovable" or "charming") with normally 40-80 g/l (and the real
sweet ones far more than that - but then we are talking Beerenauslese
quality or higher).

Now, if only a part of the grape juice sugar is converted into alcohol, then
you'll have a low-alcoholic wine rich in sugar, i.e. sweet - but you don't
know how much there was in the first place, looking at the label... With
the traditional classification of fine grape juice (Kabinett, Spätlese,
Auslese and so on) you would normally be able to say something like: This is
a Spätlese with 10% alcohol and therefore it must be semidry, this Spätlese
has 8% and thus is sweet.
Problem is only that today just about no one sells his wine under the
correct class (declassifying) (it is easier to compete in a lower league...
:-) and therefore it is hard to say for sure what ripeness the grapes for a
particular wine had. Still, the alc.% *is* a guidance, albeit a rough one,
for the three quality levels mentioned above.
hth
Anders

(kenneth mccoy) wrote:

> I kind of dissagree, the terms Trocken and Halbtrocken are not
> always used- the new terms for dry wines include Classic and
> Erstes Gewachs (First growth).

Accepted. But "Classic" and "Erstes Gewächs" (both concepts judged
quite controversially, btw, in Germany) represent a very, very small
part of Germany's wine production. "Classic", afaik would be wines
that "taste dry" (but aren't legally). According to this article

<http://www.wein-plus.com/german_guide/lage.html>

only one of the wines the author(s) tasted really tasted dry.

"Erstes Gewächs" theoretically should represent the epitome of dry
German wines, but once again, they simply didn't taste dry.

M.

In article >, "John Oglesby"
> writes:

>Wow. I didn't now that the alcohol % can be a telltale factor in a Germans
>sweetness level.

As Micheal says, only a rough guide. But as pradikat level indicates a minimum
must weight, and chaptalization is prohibited in a QmP wine, you're safe
assuming a 8% ABV Spätlese is fairly sweet.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

"kenneth mccoy" > wrote in message
...
> I kind of dissagree, the terms Trocken and Halbtrocken are not always
> used- the new terms for dry wines include Classic and Erstes Gewachs
> (First growth).
Hi Kenneth.
I've checked the definitions:
Erstes Gewächs is solely used for wine from registered vineyards in the
Rheingau. This term was coined in 1999 and is only allowed for Riesling or
Spätburgunder wines that satisfy a row of stringent requirements as to
vineyard yield (less than 50Hl per hectare), manual harvesting (no
machinery), sugar content (higher than normal) and other rules, among them a
residual sugar of at least 100 grammes per liter for Beerenauslese and
above...
So an Erstes Gewachs may very well be a classic noble sweet wine...!

Classic on the other hand is a new, from 2000, designation for dry wines
typical for an area, made from the 'classic' grape varieties for that area.
(The Nahe allows 9 different grapes, the Rheingau only 2). There ar also
requirements for ripeness of grapes, somewhat higher than for standard
wines. The allowed residual sugar depends on acidity (less than acid value *
2) but must also be less than 15 g/l (so, a semi-dry wine on the dry side
would qualify).
No vineyard, or even Grosslage or Bereich is allowed on the label..

Anders

I'm aware of the Trocken = Dry, Halbtrocken = Half Dry

But I was more thinking of trying to figure out a Kabinett without buying
it.

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote in message
...
>
> "John Oglesby" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Wow. I didn't now that the alcohol % can be a telltale factor in a
> Germans
> > sweetness level.
> >
> As Michael says, the decisive factor is the appearance of the words
> Trocken=dry or Halbtrocken=semi-dry on the label, indicating levels of
> residual sugar. Trocken will mean up to 7 grammes a litre of sugar,
> halbtrocken up to 17 or thereabouts (don't have the exact figures at
hand).
> There is also another designation of a newer date, namely "feinherb" for
the
> interval 17-25 gr/l.
> If the label does not include any of these words the wine is "lieblich"
> (roughly "lovable" or "charming") with normally 40-80 g/l (and the real
> sweet ones far more than that - but then we are talking Beerenauslese
> quality or higher).
>
> Now, if only a part of the grape juice sugar is converted into alcohol,
then
> you'll have a low-alcoholic wine rich in sugar, i.e. sweet - but you don't
> know how much there was in the first place, looking at the label... With
> the traditional classification of fine grape juice (Kabinett, Spätlese,
> Auslese and so on) you would normally be able to say something like: This
is
> a Spätlese with 10% alcohol and therefore it must be semidry, this
Spätlese
> has 8% and thus is sweet.
> Problem is only that today just about no one sells his wine under the
> correct class (declassifying) (it is easier to compete in a lower
league...
> :-) and therefore it is hard to say for sure what ripeness the grapes for
a
> particular wine had. Still, the alc.% *is* a guidance, albeit a rough
one,
> for the three quality levels mentioned above.
> hth
> Anders
>
>
>




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Dale Williams wrote:

> In article >, "CabFan"
> > writes:
>
>>The wine is from Weingut Erich Braun & Sohn. It is a Gewurztraminer
>>Spatlese, and is labeled as 1999er Edesheimer Ordensgut.
>
> Hopefully Anders, Michael, or the others more knowledgable about German
> wines can be specific. I can't offer any firsthand knowledge. What region
> is this- I
> don't know a Edesheim. I think there's Braun in Rheinhessen. What I will
> say was that overall '99 tended to be a low-acid vintage. And as Gewürz
> tends to be a lower-acid grape than say Riesling, I'd aim for drinking
> sooner rather than later.
>
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

Hi Dale,

This Dedesheim is defintely in the Region of Pfalz "Suedpfalz".
not far away from Neustadt an der Weinstrasse.
http://www.wein-plus.de/weinfuehrer/...tml?berrec=B32

I think It is recommended to drink this wine now.

I 've drunken last week a 2001 Schweigener Sonnenberg Gewürztraminer
Selection ("Grosser Preis DLG Extra" which means one of best Gewürztraminer
of the year by the official Degustation from the German Ministary of
Agriculture...) a bargain for 9 Euro!!! And I think one or two years more
and it would be decrease of quality....

Best regards

--
Columbo

"John Oglesby" > wrote in message
...
> I'm aware of the Trocken = Dry, Halbtrocken = Half Dry
>
> But I was more thinking of trying to figure out a Kabinett without buying
> it.
I recently had a Kabinett with 12% alc. Of course it was trocken, but also
far above the possible percentage for a Kabinett - and indeed it was an
Auslese... :-)
If we stick to the bottles without any 'Trocken' on the label, we may indeed
find an alcohol from 8 to 9.5%. The range in sweetness is larger, however -
as the wine might be a Spätlese in disguise... So you'll have anything from
30 to 70g/l of residual sugar and no way of knowing it before tasting.
Anders

Uwe Herdel > wrote:

>>> The wine is from Weingut Erich Braun & Sohn. It is a
>>> Gewurztraminer Spatlese, and is labeled as 1999er Edesheimer
>>> Ordensgut.

>> I don't know a Edesheim.

> This Dedesheim is defintely in the Region of Pfalz "Suedpfalz".

Caution, "Edesheim" is not "Deidesheim" (although both are in the
Palatinate).

M.