Ducru Beaucaillou St. Julien Questions and other ramblings
 

Hello All, long time again....

I had a story I thought I told, but couldn't find any reference to it.

While Alison and I were staying at the Ritz Carlton, Battery Park NY, June
2003, we had the opportunity to try a NICE wine. We were talking with the
Food Service Manager about a good wine to go with Chocolate Fondue that we
were going to have at the 14th floor Rise bar. Randy said 'wait one moment'
and came back with 2 glasses of a dark, almost black wine. He said that
those 2 glasses were on the house. I asked how, and he said a customer
asked for it, but when they opened it, some cork fell in it and the
customer didn't want it anymore. I looked at the wine list the next day,
and found out it was a 1985 Ducru Beaucaillou, St. Julien $350 USD. It was
smooth, almost velvety, but I cant specifically remember and flavors. This
was before we really got into wine.

Now, Alison and I met in 2001 and married in June of 2002. My question: I
see where I can pick up a bottle of 1985 Ducru Beaucaillou,St. Julien for
USD $119. I can get a couple of bottles for $45 of futures 2001.

I want to pick up a almost once in a life time wine, related to our life
together. So, do I go for the $1985 and get one bottle, a couple of $45
2001's, or wait on the 2002? I don't mind any of the three, I just want to
know that I get the best wine I can. I could not find and 2002 Penfolds
Grange. What would yall's recommendation be?

In other ramblings, while in New York I picked up a couple of bottles of
1999 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spätlese. I found more at
www.specsonline.com in Houston, Texas. It's GREAT! So, I decided to pick up
a few bottles of 2002 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spätlese on
pre-arrival. I paid $28.50. Is this a good price? Not that I am buying as
an investment, but how high in value can it go realistically? I am hearing
that 2002 is as good or better than Germany's 2001.

How do yall feel about Andrea Immer's show on the FINE network? She is so
much cutier than Rachael Ray!

Our nearest winery is releasing his bottling of their first Cabernet
Sauvignon on Friday night. I'll pick up a couple of bottles and let ya know
what I think.

Thanks, and Enjoy!

Walter

Ducru Beaucaillou St. Julien Questions and other ramblings
 

Walter L. Preuninger II > wrote:
: Hello All, long time again....


: Now, Alison and I met in 2001 and married in June of 2002. My question: I
: see where I can pick up a bottle of 1985 Ducru Beaucaillou,St. Julien for
: USD $119. I can get a couple of bottles for $45 of futures 2001.

Walter --

if you can get good futures pricing on the Ducru, why don;t you spring
for Both vintages?! Prices are surely lower than the 2000's, and D-B
certainly can age well. You may want to buy an assorted case of Bordeaux
from each of those years, this way you'll have a comparison to the Ducru
and find out if you like other chateau better. A caveat though: don't
expect to drink these out-of-the-box, they'll need some aging. Personally,
I'd get a case of Sauternes/Barsacs from the excellent 2001 vintage, as
these will taste well throughout their life while still gaining complexity
throughout their long lifespan.

Mark S

Ducru Beaucaillou St. Julien Questions and other ramblings
 

In article >, "Walter L. Preuninger II"
> writes:

>1985 Ducru Beaucaillou,St. Julien for
>USD $119. I can get a couple of bottles for $45 of futures 2001.
>
>I want to pick up a almost once in a life time wine, related to our life
>together. So, do I go for the $1985 and get one bottle, a couple of $45
>2001's, or wait on the 2002? I don't mind any of the three, I just want to
>know that I get the best wine I can. I could not find and 2002 Penfolds
>Grange. What would yall's recommendation be?

2002 futures prices in general are running a bit less than 2001. So why not 3
bottles of Ducru from the year you were married? If you have decent storage,
even if 2002 should turn out as a forward year, they should last 10+ years
(5th, 10th, and 15th anniversaries? - just be alert to reports of closed down
wines). My limited experience is that most '85s are towards their peak, but at
a store tasting last year '85 Ducru seemed like it could use more time.

>
>In other ramblings, while in New York I picked up a couple of bottles of
>1999 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spätlese. I found more at
>www.specsonline.com in Houston, Texas. It's GREAT! So, I decided to pick up
>a few bottles of 2002 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spätlese on
>pre-arrival. I paid $28.50. Is this a good price? Not that I am buying as
>an investment, but how high in value can it go realistically? I am hearing
>that 2002 is as good or better than Germany's 2001

Not enough 2002 tastings to make own judgement, have heard differing reports. I
think Anders posted a report here not long ago, very good but needs careful
choosing if I recall correctly. $28.50 for the JJ Prüm Spätlese sounds like a
good price, low-average I'd say. I don't usually speculate re future value, but
will say as a generally Kabinett to Spätlesen level wines seldom excite the
investor types, so doubt it will ever appreciate mightily. Buy now not for
financial reasons, just because these wines can be hard to find after release.

Be well, best to Alison.


Dale

Dale Williams
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Prüm Spätlese and 2001/2002
 

"Walter L. Preuninger II" > wrote in message
...
>
> In other ramblings, while in New York I picked up a couple of bottles of
> 1999 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spätlese. I found more at
> www.specsonline.com in Houston, Texas. It's GREAT! So, I decided to pick
up
> a few bottles of 2002 Joh. Jos. Prum Wehlener Sonnenuhr Spätlese on
> pre-arrival. I paid $28.50. Is this a good price? Not that I am buying as
> an investment, but how high in value can it go realistically? I am hearing
> that 2002 is as good or better than Germany's 2001.
>
Hi Walter,
I don't know about these vintages for Joh.Jos.Prüm but see that two versions
of the 2001 W.S. Spätlese had a price of about 17USD ex winery, both very
highly rated and with an expected life time till 2014/2016 (from the
Gault-Millau WeinGuide).
From the same source I also find that one version of the 2000 Spätlese
reached a price of 27USD, another was priced at 16.50... and we are still
talking about the Wehlener Sonnenuhr vineyard only!
With rising prices, transport, weak dollar and profit mark-up, 28.50USD
shouldn't be too bad for a good 2002 Spätlese from this winery, I think, but
it does depend on which version you have (hopeless to say from year to year
(sigh)).
As to rising value - I don't think you should expect much more than keeping
abreast with compound interests on investment and storage costs - after all,
there is enough to go around. (Now, if we talk about the W.S. Auslese long
Gold Capsule 2001, the price ex winery was about 280USD for a *half*
bottle... That is pretty exclusive!)

I may also have given an impression here that 2001 is preferable, but that
statement needs some qualification, I think. 2002 is a good vintage,
definitely, maybe more variable in quality but also with more individuality
than 2001 - which means, to me, that you'll have to look around to find a
wine appealing to *your* taste. 2001 was more uniform, for some reason, I
feel.
hth
Anders

Ducru Beaucaillou St. Julien Questions and other ramblings
 

How does this whole "futures" thing work? Are you just pre-ordering a
bottle of a given vintage? Who offers these -- retailers, or some
special brokers?

In short, if I'd like to buy something this way (as it looks like a very
cheap vehicle), how do I do it?

thanks,

-- kov

Ducru Beaucaillou St. Julien Questions and other ramblings
 

In article >, Ken Overton
> writes:

>How does this whole "futures" thing work? Are you just pre-ordering a
>bottle of a given vintage? Who offers these -- retailers, or some
>special brokers?
>
>In short, if I'd like to buy something this way (as it looks like a very
>cheap vehicle), how do I do it?

Exactly, you're preordering a wine. First "tranche" (in Bordeaux, where futures
are most established, the offers come out in phases, with prices asjusting
according to demand) prices can be a great deal (see 2000 Bordeaux) compared to
release, or not (see 1997). Most big speciality wine retailers offer Bdx
futures.

I personally think that buying futures as a financial decision is a bit risky,
on arrival wines are often at same price (occasionally lower!). I'm glad I
bought some 2000s at first tranche, some prices have gone up quite a bit. But
actual reason I did was (a) I had some extra money at time and (b) I wanted to
lock in supplies of a few moderately priced wines that I buy almost every year.
Even at first tranche some of my faves were too rich for my blood (Leoville
Poyferre, Gruaud-Larose, Montrose); they all got good scores so prices are
going even higher, so I'll just miss them this year.

One other word about futures, and this is most important consideration. Buy
from an established reputable retailer with a brick & mortar presence. When I
was buying 2000s, I bought most from Rochambeau (my local dealer, Dobbs Ferry
NY). And a few from Zachys. Their prices were competitive with out of state
retailers I've done business with like Macarthurs, Sams, and Premier Cru. I
confess I did eye the ads from Rare LLC - prices substantially lower than
anywhere else. But decided to stick to places where I had a relationship. Rare
LLC is now in bankruptcy, with the FBI investigating fraud. Lots of paid-for
futures were never ordered, and it looks unlikely anyone will get their wine
(or their money).

In NY area (see your email is nyc) , I'd stick with Sherry-Lehman, Morell,
Zachy's , Rochambeau, Acker, Wine Library, Gary's, Wine Shop, etc- places with
good reps.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Ducru Beaucaillou St. Julien Questions and other ramblings
 

In article >,
Dale Williams > wrote:
>
[snip!]
>
>Lots of paid-for futures were never ordered, and it looks unlikely anyone will
>get their wine (or their money).


I am told by many local wine shops that they do not like futures.
Sometimes even when dealing with honest retailers things fall through. One
link in the chain breaks for some reason (e.g. bankruptcy) and then
everyone is out. A local wineshop owner says he had a lot of money in
futures that he never received. He did get his money back, but what good
did that do him? Plus, he had his cash laid out for a year when he
could've done something else with it. I've heard similar stories many
times. I'm not sure it's worth the fuss.


Dimitri