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not4wood
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse

We are going to a Bouillabaisse dinner and I've always tried different wines
with the meal. Bouillabaisse is a strong flavorful soup and needs a strong
full bodied wine to equal equal.

Any suggestions from the more informed??

--
Regards,

Mark G.
Not4wood


  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Nils Gustaf Lindgren
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse

"not4wood" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> We are going to a Bouillabaisse dinner and I've always tried different

wines
> with the meal. Bouillabaisse is a strong flavorful soup and needs a

strong
> full bodied wine to equal equal.
>
> Any suggestions from the more informed??


Hello Mark;
Since some time has gone by sinc eyou posted your enquiry and more "senior"
group members have not commented, I would like to tell you that the best
thing to drink with a bouillabaisse is a good Provence or Bandol Rosé.

NEXT problem: where you can find these rare and precious animals in your
neighbourhood is, as they say, left as an exercise for the student ...
It has never been reported that the US is teeming with good, Southern
French, Rosés.

Nor, for that matter, is Southern France. BAD Rosés, is however, a brid of a
totally differnet feather and can be found in prodigous amounts.

HTH - HAND

and Cheers!

Nils Gustaf

--
Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se


  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mark Lipton
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse



not4wood wrote:

> We are going to a Bouillabaisse dinner and I've always tried different wines
> with the meal. Bouillabaisse is a strong flavorful soup and needs a strong
> full bodied wine to equal equal.
>
> Any suggestions from the more informed??


Well, aromatic whites or good rosés are generally considered a good match with
bouillabaise. Some specifics might be white Hermitage or Beaucastel VV
Roussanne, or a rosé from Bandol or Tavel. I should add that if your
bouillabaise includes tomato (as some recipes do) that all bets are off...

Mark Lipton

  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
not4wood
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse

Thanks guys,

First, yes the soup or broth is a tomato based semi-spicy. The most
important to me is that my wife likes Rose'. I do not, too sweat and
perfume for my taste. Hmmmm I'll probably try the Hermitage.

Mark
Not4wood

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> not4wood wrote:
>
> > We are going to a Bouillabaisse dinner and I've always tried different

wines
> > with the meal. Bouillabaisse is a strong flavorful soup and needs a

strong
> > full bodied wine to equal equal.
> >
> > Any suggestions from the more informed??

>
> Well, aromatic whites or good rosés are generally considered a good match

with
> bouillabaise. Some specifics might be white Hermitage or Beaucastel VV
> Roussanne, or a rosé from Bandol or Tavel. I should add that if your
> bouillabaise includes tomato (as some recipes do) that all bets are off...
>
> Mark Lipton
>



  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
th_duck
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse

Mark Lipton > wrote in message >...
> not4wood wrote:
>
> > We are going to a Bouillabaisse dinner and I've always tried different wines
> > with the meal. Bouillabaisse is a strong flavorful soup and needs a strong
> > full bodied wine to equal equal.
> >
> > Any suggestions from the more informed??

>
> Well, aromatic whites or good rosés are generally considered a good match with
> bouillabaise. Some specifics might be white Hermitage or Beaucastel VV
> Roussanne, or a rosé from Bandol or Tavel. I should add that if your
> bouillabaise includes tomato (as some recipes do) that all bets are off...
>
> Mark Lipton


Wow, an extremely hard to find $100 bottle of Beaucastel to match up
with fish soup! I think might suggest something a bit more afordable
than that. As far as roses go I don't think you have neccesarilly go
with a Bandol...though they are very good. Bouillibasse seems to be a
soup popular all along the seaboard and I've had it with a Costieres
de Nimes, a Coteaux de Languedoc, a Faugeres, a Tavel... well, you get
the idea...basically a dry pink southern French wine is what is really
great with this soup.

Marc mentioned aromatic whites, I have not had it with Boullibasse but
imagine it would be quite nice--I would suggest looking to the some of
the same Rhone/Languedoc regions and trying to find some sort of a
blend with Roussane, Marsanne, or Viognier in it. Now it won't say
this on the bottle neccessarily so I'd consult with the wine shop
person for help here. For starters many Cote-du-Rhone whites likely
have one of these as part of the blend and could be a good choice to
look at first as they are quite common. My recommendation, as an
example of this type of wine which would also be of same grape as the
aforementioned Beaucastel VV, I would offer for your consideration you
a Costieres de Nimes- Chateau de Nages- Cuvee Joseph Torre. This is
also 100% Roussane and would be an aromatic wine that should go well
with the fish...this also goes for under $20. This may not be
available in your area so I can only suggest seeing what is out there
in this style...

Regards
M.Leduc


  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mark Lipton
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse



th_duck wrote:

> Wow, an extremely hard to find $100 bottle of Beaucastel to match up
> with fish soup! I think might suggest something a bit more afordable
> than that. As far as roses go I don't think you have neccesarilly go
> with a Bandol...though they are very good. Bouillibasse seems to be a
> soup popular all along the seaboard and I've had it with a Costieres
> de Nimes, a Coteaux de Languedoc, a Faugeres, a Tavel... well, you get
> the idea...basically a dry pink southern French wine is what is really
> great with this soup.


Michel, calling bouillabaise "fish soup" also does injustice to one of the world's great
culinary treats. Granted, I have had the pleasure of having The Real Deal™ (in a howling
Mistral) courtesy of Slow Food Provence -- but the point that I was making is that this is
a dish that invites using a very fine white wine of a certain sort. Power and aromatics
are desirable to match with the complexity and richness of the dish itself. However, now
that the OP has revealed that the broth will have a significant component of tomatoes, I
retract my original suggestions aside from the rosé or a nice white wine from Cassis or
the Languedoc if he can find it.

Mark Lipton

  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse


"not4wood" > wrote in message
...
> We are going to a Bouillabaisse dinner and I've always tried different

wines
> with the meal. Bouillabaisse is a strong flavorful soup and needs a

strong
> full bodied wine to equal equal.
>
> Any suggestions from the more informed??


I can't speak for the more informed, but good Sake might be just the thing
for this dish. Serve slightly chilled - not heated. Heating is only for
cheap Sake.

Tom S


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
th_duck
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse

>
> Michel, calling bouillabaise "fish soup" also does injustice to one of the world's great
> culinary treats. Granted, I have had the pleasure of having The Real Deal? (in a howling
> Mistral) courtesy of Slow Food Provence -- but the point that I was making is that this is
> a dish that invites using a very fine white wine of a certain sort. Power and aromatics
> are desirable to match with the complexity and richness of the dish itself. However, now
> that the OP has revealed that the broth will have a significant component of tomatoes, I
> retract my original suggestions aside from the rosé or a nice white wine from Cassis or
> the Languedoc if he can find it.
>
> Mark Lipton


Hmmmm...my first experience was sitting in a cafe on the Promenade
Anglais in Nice--piling the gruyere high as I could upon the carefully
aioli spread crouton--dunking it until it was soft. Yes it was great,
but It hardly warrants a Beaucastel VV Rousanne in my view, I had that
on my birthday with a seafood tasting menu...an incredible wine for a
special occasion. To me bouillabase seems more down to earth and
workaday than that. I'm not arguing that it wouldn't work, no doubt it
would be great-- so maybe it is just budgets we are arguing about...
  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
not4wood
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse


"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
>
> Michel, calling bouillabaise "fish soup" also does injustice to one of the

world's great
> culinary treats. Granted, I have had the pleasure of having The Real

DealT (in a howling
> Mistral) courtesy of Slow Food Provence -- but the point that I was making

is that this is
> a dish that invites using a very fine white wine of a certain sort. Power

and aromatics
> are desirable to match with the complexity and richness of the dish

itself. However, now
> that the OP has revealed that the broth will have a significant component

of tomatoes, I
> retract my original suggestions aside from the rosé or a nice white wine

from Cassis or
> the Languedoc if he can find it.
>
> Mark Lipton
>



Mark,

OK I've been watching all the posts and first I'd like to thank all of you
for your input. Now you got my curiosity up. I'm going to have to do
research in my area to find the white aromatics. Cassis or the Languedoc.
I have not had the pleasure of tasting either one of these but I will try to
search them out and try one on this special night.

Bouillabaisse is not something to be taken lightly and in the New York area
its really hard to come by. We have a small French Mediterranean family
owned restaurant. The Master is French trained and is always trying new
things to keep you guessing. They have a few invitation only special events
and the bouillabaisse night is one of them It wasn't so much as to price
but what would really do justice to the honor of bouillabaisse. In a
previous post someone called this a fish soup. You should find out and try
this very special approach to a sea food delight if you eat any kind of sea
food at all. You are missing one of life's real pleasures and finding a
wine to go with this pleasure would be a real treat. Again, thank you all
for your input and I will see what I can get and bring to this magical food
experience.

Mark
Not4wood


  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse


"not4wood" > wrote in message
...
> OK I've been watching all the posts and first I'd like to thank all of you
> for your input. Now you got my curiosity up. I'm going to have to do
> research in my area to find the white aromatics. Cassis or the Languedoc.


Since when is Cassis white? Does that refer to something other than the red
berry that makes such excellent dessert liqueur?

> Bouillabaisse is not something to be taken lightly and in the New York

area
> its really hard to come by. We have a small French Mediterranean family
> owned restaurant. The Master is French trained and is always trying new
> things to keep you guessing. They have a few invitation only special

events
> and the bouillabaisse night is one of them It wasn't so much as to price
> but what would really do justice to the honor of bouillabaisse. In a
> previous post someone called this a fish soup. You should find out and

try
> this very special approach to a sea food delight if you eat any kind of

sea
> food at all. You are missing one of life's real pleasures and finding a
> wine to go with this pleasure would be a real treat.


I agree completely. There happens to be an old restaurant in Hollywood, CA
that serves _great_ bouillabaisse on Fridays. If you're ever visiting Los
Angeles on a Friday, be sure to try the special at Musso & Frank's.
Actually, all their food is good. The place is a landmark institution, and
most of the waiters have been there for 30+years.

Tom S




  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dale Williams
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse

In article >, "Tom S"
> writes:

>Since when is Cassis white? Does that refer to something other than the red
>berry that makes such excellent dessert liqueur?


In addition to the blackcurrant liqueur, the word "Cassis" also refers to a
Southern French (I think actually Provencal, though I couldn't swear to it)
appelation. I assume it's a town, commune, or some other geographic area. Think
it uses similar grapes to Southern Rhone whites.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Mike Tommasi
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse

On 22 Oct 2003 02:29:02 GMT, amnspam (Dale Williams)
wrote:

>In article >, "Tom S"
> writes:
>
>>Since when is Cassis white? Does that refer to something other than the red
>>berry that makes such excellent dessert liqueur?

>
>In addition to the blackcurrant liqueur, the word "Cassis" also refers to a
>Southern French (I think actually Provencal, though I couldn't swear to it)
>appelation. I assume it's a town, commune, or some other geographic area. Think
>it uses similar grapes to Southern Rhone whites.


Also bear in mind that you don't pronounce the "s" in Cassis wine.
Yes, it is in Provence, both in the modern administrative sense and
also in the pre-revolution true sense of Provence. There are reds and
roses, but the whites are the only good ones, and a couple of
producers at that (Sainte MAgdeleine, Bodin, and my favourite
Paternel). Grapes are marsanne, ugni, clairette. Goes with
mediterranean fish.

IMHO the best match for bouillabaisse is a rose with some extra body,
like the ones of Domaine de Terrebrune in Bandol AOC. Or some of those
atypical roses coming out of Languedoc, like Domaine Henry.

Another comment, as I have been reading this thread with great
pleasure, some excellent comments have been already made and I am just
oppportunistically adding the last bit... Remember that a
bouillabaisse is simple fare, and beware of any great chef putting his
hand to it. Any sign of the presence of lobster and other luxury
things is not a good thing. I am not saying that you are not allowed
to be creative, just remember that it comes from an old tradition
revolving arould discarded fish. Beware also of myth. It is neither
Marseillais nor from Sete, but evolved all around this area, with
variations all along the coast, from Valencia to Livorno (it changes
name too!). It was never made with sea water (it would be inedible,
think about it!).

Enjoy it

Mike
  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Tom S
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse


"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> Also bear in mind that you don't pronounce the "s" in Cassis wine.


Ah, so it's pronounced "Cai"? ;^)

S moT


  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ian Hoare
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse

Salut/Hi Tom S,

le/on Thu, 23 Oct 2003 05:29:02 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

>
>"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
.. .
>> Also bear in mind that you don't pronounce the "s" in Cassis wine.

>
>Ah, so it's pronounced "Cai"? ;^)


Silly billy.

You left out the glo''al stop.

Ca''i

only what Mike really _meant to say, as you very well know from the number
of kir cassis I've offered you, is that in French the general rule is that
the final letter isn't pronounced. So Argentat (near where we live) sounds a
bit like Ahjonta. (The 'g' being softened by the e following it.). But the
south being the south, Forgès (because it has the grave accent over the 'e',
emphasizes the final syllable, which means the 's' IS pronounced. thus
Forjez is about it. If it didn't have the accent, the final s wouldn't be
pronounced as is the case in the 11 other Forges in the country and THEY are
pronounced forje.

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.
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Mark Lipton
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse



Ian Hoare wrote:

> only what Mike really _meant to say, as you very well know from the number
> of kir cassis I've offered you, is that in French the general rule is that
> the final letter isn't pronounced. So Argentat (near where we live) sounds a
> bit like Ahjonta. (The 'g' being softened by the e following it.). But the
> south being the south, Forgès (because it has the grave accent over the 'e',
> emphasizes the final syllable, which means the 's' IS pronounced. thus
> Forjez is about it. If it didn't have the accent, the final s wouldn't be
> pronounced as is the case in the 11 other Forges in the country and THEY are
> pronounced forje.


And (venturing into territory best left to others in this group) I'll add that
the rules you've cited apply only to _French_ names, so that in the South
(where we find the town of Cassis, BTW) the rules of Provençal may apply and we
end up pronouncing the terminal consonant -- thereby providing merriment to the
locals who get to listen to flustered tourists butchering the regional names.

Mark Lipton



  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Anders Tørneskog
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse


"Ian Hoare" > wrote in message
...
> Salut/Hi Tom S,
>...But the
> south being the south, Forgès (because it has the grave accent over the

'e',
> emphasizes the final syllable, which means the 's' IS pronounced. thus
> Forjez is about it. If it didn't have the accent, the final s wouldn't be
> pronounced as is the case in the 11 other Forges in the country and THEY

are
> pronounced forje.
>

I see, was that apoplectic actor Louis de Funes from the south, btw? I
remember being surprised by how to pronounce his name!
Anders


  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ian Hoare
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse

Salut/Hi Anders Tørneskog,

le/on Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:33:47 GMT, tu disais/you said:-


>> south being the south, Forgès (because it has the grave accent over the
>>'e', emphasizes the final syllable, which means the 's' IS pronounced.


>I see, was that apoplectic actor Louis de Funes from the south, btw? I
>remember being surprised by how to pronounce his name!


D'you know, I've no idea. But certainly the pronunciation of his name is
entirely consistent with that. However, just as in English, the
pronunciation of proper names follows no known rules. Cholmondley (chumley)
Worcestershire (wooster) to take but two examples! And to bring it on topic
there's Cockburn (port) - pronounced coburn - chuckle.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare

Sometimes oi just sits and thinks
Sometimes oi just sits.
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Michael Pronay
 
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Default Question for the group about Bouillabaisse

Ian Hoare > wrote:

> However, just as in English, the pronunciation of proper names
> follows no known rules. Cholmondley (chumley) Worcestershire
> (wooster) to take but two examples! And to bring it on topic
> there's Cockburn (port) - pronounced coburn - chuckle.


And to stay on topic: Cos ("coss"), Auxerre ("ohsser"), Fixin
("fissae"), Estournel ("estournel"). Otoh, both t's in Montrachet
are silent.

M.
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