What does Crianza mean when talking about Spanish wines (specifically
in Marques de Caceres)?

Is it an area, a style of wine etc?

Should Marques de Caceres' "straight" Rioja be refered to as M de C
Rioja or M de C Rioja Crianza? Is one specifically incorrect, or is
it more a case that it should really be referred to as the one with
Crianza in the title, but people just tend to drop the Crianza part
for the sake of simplicity?

Richard

In article >,
(Belize) writes:

>Should Marques de Caceres' "straight" Rioja be refered to as M de C
>Rioja or M de C Rioja Crianza? Is one specifically incorrect, or is
>it more a case that it should really be referred to as the one with
>Crianza in the title, but people just tend to drop the Crianza part
>for the sake of simplicity?

Steve's answer has the basic answer as to what Crianza is. As to usage, I don't
think there's any formal rule, but if I name a Rioja from a big house that
makes a full-line and don't say Reserva or Gran Reserva, you can pretty much
bet it's a Crianza. If I saw "Marques de Caceres Rioja" in an ad, I'd be
pretty sure it was the Crianza.
Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

amnspam (Dale Williams) wrote in
:
>
>>Should Marques de Caceres' "straight" Rioja be refered to as M de C
>>Rioja or M de C Rioja Crianza? Is one specifically incorrect, or is
>>it more a case that it should really be referred to as the one with
>>Crianza in the title, but people just tend to drop the Crianza part
>>for the sake of simplicity?
>
> Steve's answer has the basic answer as to what Crianza is. As to
> usage, I don't think there's any formal rule, but if I name a Rioja
> from a big house that makes a full-line and don't say Reserva or Gran
> Reserva, you can pretty much bet it's a Crianza. If I saw "Marques de
> Caceres Rioja" in an ad, I'd be pretty sure it was the Crianza.
> Dale


Hi,

I don't think Marqués de Cáceres makes young wine. Their basic wine is a
Crianza, and has a backlabel that credits its condition. The full name in
the label is "Marqués de Cáceres Vendimia Seleccionada" and, IMHO is an
uninspiring wine. I have enjoyed their Reservas in the past, specially the
1994 and 1995 vintages. They are not very expensive too. The regular
Crianza retails in Spain 6 eur (formerly 1000 ESP), while the Reserva is
more in the 12 eur (formerly 2000 ESP). This is quite a pattern with old
houses such as Murrieta (also in the 12 eur for their basic wine, a
Reserva) or Marqués de Riscal (portfolio starts with Reserva, also).

Best,

Santiago

When my wife and I vacationed in Mallorica about 6 years ago....we had
fantastic Rioja's. But we lost the names and about the only ones we see
here are the Faustina wines.

But there were some great wines for $2-$3 USA at the time and non were found
back here. Guess they keep the real good ones over there.
"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,

> (Belize) writes:
>
> >Should Marques de Caceres' "straight" Rioja be refered to as M de C
> >Rioja or M de C Rioja Crianza? Is one specifically incorrect, or is
> >it more a case that it should really be referred to as the one with
> >Crianza in the title, but people just tend to drop the Crianza part
> >for the sake of simplicity?
>
> Steve's answer has the basic answer as to what Crianza is. As to usage, I
don't
> think there's any formal rule, but if I name a Rioja from a big house
that
> makes a full-line and don't say Reserva or Gran Reserva, you can pretty
much
> bet it's a Crianza. If I saw "Marques de Caceres Rioja" in an ad, I'd be
> pretty sure it was the Crianza.
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

> > In article >,
>
> > (Belize) writes:
> >
> > >Should Marques de Caceres' "straight" Rioja be refered to as M de C
> > >Rioja or M de C Rioja Crianza? Is one specifically incorrect, or is
> > >it more a case that it should really be referred to as the one with
> > >Crianza in the title, but people just tend to drop the Crianza part
> > >for the sake of simplicity?
> >
> > Steve's answer has the basic answer as to what Crianza is. As to usage, I
> don't
> > think there's any formal rule, but if I name a Rioja from a big house
> that
> > makes a full-line and don't say Reserva or Gran Reserva, you can pretty
> much
> > bet it's a Crianza. If I saw "Marques de Caceres Rioja" in an ad, I'd be
> > pretty sure it was the Crianza.
> > Dale
> >
> > Dale Williams
> > Drop "damnspam" to reply

Thanks for the reply Dale.

But who and what was Steve's answer? Since he obviously answers what a crianza is.

Richard

Well, I don't know of "partly hitting the bell" is a saying in English, but
it is in Dutch, referring to more or less knowing what it is about, but not
completely.

The main thing is: IF a Spanish wine is a Crianza, it MUST be labeled on the
bottle. The same with Reserva and Gran Reserva. There should be a "back
label" on the bottle, with the law-approved number, AND this statement
(crianza, reserva, gran reserva). If it isn't there, you can almost be sure,
that the wine is a young one (Joven).

Mind, this applies to ALL Spanish wines, so not only to the Rioja's!

As to the aging:

Crianza: must have aged at least (!) 2 years of which at least (!) 6 months
on oak barrels
Reserva: must have aged at least (!) 3 years, of which at least (!) 1 year
on oak barrels
Gran Reserva: Must have aged at least (!) 5 years, of which at least (!) 2
years on oak barrels

Rioja wines MUST have been bottled in the Rioja

regards,

Hillebrand

"Steve Naïve" > wrote in message
...
> (Belize) wrote in
> om:
>
> > Thanks for the reply Dale.
> >
> > But who and what was Steve's answer? Since he obviously answers what
> > a crianza is.
>
> That'll be me!
>
> As I wrote;
>
> I'm sure someone will be along shortly to give a better answer, but Rioja
> (a wine-producing area of Spain, and what Marques de Caceres (mostly?)
> produce) is divided into 4 main 'types' for the red, at least. The
'types'
> depend on how long they are aged for, either in barrel or bottle, before
> release.
>
> They are (from 'youngest' to 'oldest')
>
> Joven - the young wine of Rioja, usually with no cask aging.
> Crianza aged 2 years, of which one must be in oak casks
> Reserva aged 3 years, of which one must be in oak casks
> Gran Reserva 2 years in cask plus 3 in bottle.
>
> Be careful, though - just because it's Spanish doesn't mean it's Rioja,
and
> other areas have different rules about what the names mean. For example,
> in Valdepenas the Gran Reserva is, I think, 3.5 years - apparently due to
> the reduced acidity of the wines.
>
>
> --
> SteveN
> Please remove the N from my email address to reply

"H.J. van der Veen" > wrote in
:
>
> The main thing is: IF a Spanish wine is a Crianza, it MUST be labeled
> on the bottle. The same with Reserva and Gran Reserva. There should be
> a "back label" on the bottle, with the law-approved number, AND this
> statement (crianza, reserva, gran reserva). If it isn't there, you can
> almost be sure, that the wine is a young one (Joven).

Well, as you point, it is not always that way. It is true that each D.O.
(Denominación de Origen, similar to A.O.C.) has some rules for a wine to be
labelled as Crianza, Reserva or Gran Reserva. But it is also true that a
winery can sell a wine with a Crianza backlabel even if it could be legally
released as a Reserva. While this is not usually the case, there is a bunch
of wineries in Spain that are releasing their wines without aging
backlabel, that means... as a young wine, when they are not. And, some of
this wines are amongst the best.

Best,

Santiago

True indeed, and exactly in the way the French do with their system of
declassifying the wines. But concerning Spain: al the mayor wineries (like
Marques de Caceres) tend not to do that, so the backlabel should give you an
indication. It might well be, though, that they are sending declassified
wines tot the USA. And of course those wines will be good quality, but they
are considered less by the winery itself. In Europe (i.e. Spain and Holland)
I never encountered bottles like that.

Hillebrand.

"Santiago G.H." > wrote in message
. 1.4...
> "H.J. van der Veen" > wrote in
> :
> >
> > The main thing is: IF a Spanish wine is a Crianza, it MUST be labeled
> > on the bottle. The same with Reserva and Gran Reserva. There should be
> > a "back label" on the bottle, with the law-approved number, AND this
> > statement (crianza, reserva, gran reserva). If it isn't there, you can
> > almost be sure, that the wine is a young one (Joven).
>
> Well, as you point, it is not always that way. It is true that each D.O.
> (Denominación de Origen, similar to A.O.C.) has some rules for a wine to
be
> labelled as Crianza, Reserva or Gran Reserva. But it is also true that a
> winery can sell a wine with a Crianza backlabel even if it could be
legally
> released as a Reserva. While this is not usually the case, there is a
bunch
> of wineries in Spain that are releasing their wines without aging
> backlabel, that means... as a young wine, when they are not. And, some of
> this wines are amongst the best.
>
> Best,
>
> Santiago

In article >, "H.J. van der Veen"
> writes:

> al the mayor wineries (like
>Marques de Caceres) tend not to do that, so the backlabel should give you an
>indication. It might well be, though, that they are sending declassified
>wines tot the USA. And of course those wines will be good quality, but they
>are considered less by the winery itself. In

Hillebrand,

I think we have a slight misunderstanding. I'm the one that posted "As to
usage, I don'tthink there's any formal rule, but if I name a Rioja from a big
house that
makes a full-line and don't say Reserva or Gran Reserva, you can pretty much
bet it's a Crianza. If I saw "Marques de Caceres Rioja" in an ad, I'd be
pretty sure it was the Crianza."

I'm not saying that the wine doesn't say Crianza on label. I referring to
spoken Winegeek.
Just as I assume if one says "97 Mondavi Cabernet" that they mean the Napa
bottling, not the Private Reserve or Oakville, I assume if someone says
Viticcio Chianti Classico they don't mean the CCR. So if I hear Marques de
Caceres Rioja with no qualifer, I'm assuming it's the Crianza until told
differently.
Obviously many folks here are better critical thinkers here than I, and would
not make such willy-nilly assumptions. :-)

Dale

Dale Williams
Drop "damnspam" to reply

Right. I got the meaning. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

Regards,

Hillebrand.

"Dale Williams" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "H.J. van der
Veen"
> > writes:
>
> > al the mayor wineries (like
> >Marques de Caceres) tend not to do that, so the backlabel should give you
an
> >indication. It might well be, though, that they are sending declassified
> >wines tot the USA. And of course those wines will be good quality, but
they
> >are considered less by the winery itself. In
>
> Hillebrand,
>
> I think we have a slight misunderstanding. I'm the one that posted "As to
> usage, I don'tthink there's any formal rule, but if I name a Rioja from a
big
> house that
> makes a full-line and don't say Reserva or Gran Reserva, you can pretty
much
> bet it's a Crianza. If I saw "Marques de Caceres Rioja" in an ad, I'd be
> pretty sure it was the Crianza."
>
> I'm not saying that the wine doesn't say Crianza on label. I referring to
> spoken Winegeek.
> Just as I assume if one says "97 Mondavi Cabernet" that they mean the Napa
> bottling, not the Private Reserve or Oakville, I assume if someone says
> Viticcio Chianti Classico they don't mean the CCR. So if I hear Marques
de
> Caceres Rioja with no qualifer, I'm assuming it's the Crianza until told
> differently.
> Obviously many folks here are better critical thinkers here than I, and
would
> not make such willy-nilly assumptions. :-)
>
> Dale
>
> Dale Williams
> Drop "damnspam" to reply

marques de caceres is one of spain's best rioja's
all vintages whether crianza, reserva or gran reserva are excellent !
I lived in spain for several years and drank this like water....

you can't go wrong...

"H.J. van der Veen" > wrote in message
...
> Well, I don't know of "partly hitting the bell" is a saying in English,
but
> it is in Dutch, referring to more or less knowing what it is about, but
not
> completely.
>
> The main thing is: IF a Spanish wine is a Crianza, it MUST be labeled on
the
> bottle. The same with Reserva and Gran Reserva. There should be a "back
> label" on the bottle, with the law-approved number, AND this statement
> (crianza, reserva, gran reserva). If it isn't there, you can almost be
sure,
> that the wine is a young one (Joven).
>
> Mind, this applies to ALL Spanish wines, so not only to the Rioja's!
>
> As to the aging:
>
> Crianza: must have aged at least (!) 2 years of which at least (!) 6
months
> on oak barrels
> Reserva: must have aged at least (!) 3 years, of which at least (!) 1 year
> on oak barrels
> Gran Reserva: Must have aged at least (!) 5 years, of which at least (!) 2
> years on oak barrels
>
> Rioja wines MUST have been bottled in the Rioja
>
> regards,
>
> Hillebrand
>
> "Steve Naïve" > wrote in message
> ...
> > (Belize) wrote in
> > om:
> >
> > > Thanks for the reply Dale.
> > >
> > > But who and what was Steve's answer? Since he obviously answers what
> > > a crianza is.
> >
> > That'll be me!
> >
> > As I wrote;
> >
> > I'm sure someone will be along shortly to give a better answer, but
Rioja
> > (a wine-producing area of Spain, and what Marques de Caceres (mostly?)
> > produce) is divided into 4 main 'types' for the red, at least. The
> 'types'
> > depend on how long they are aged for, either in barrel or bottle, before
> > release.
> >
> > They are (from 'youngest' to 'oldest')
> >
> > Joven - the young wine of Rioja, usually with no cask aging.
> > Crianza aged 2 years, of which one must be in oak casks
> > Reserva aged 3 years, of which one must be in oak casks
> > Gran Reserva 2 years in cask plus 3 in bottle.
> >
> > Be careful, though - just because it's Spanish doesn't mean it's Rioja,
> and
> > other areas have different rules about what the names mean. For
example,
> > in Valdepenas the Gran Reserva is, I think, 3.5 years - apparently due
to
> > the reduced acidity of the wines.
> >
> >
> > --
> > SteveN
> > Please remove the N from my email address to reply
>
>