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Old 31-10-2009, 09:24 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Never to be drunk w/food

Is there any great wine that is supposed to be enjoyed strictly by
itself?

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Old 01-11-2009, 12:41 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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aesthete8 wrote:
Is there any great wine that is supposed to be enjoyed strictly by
itself?


Who it it that dictates how wine is supposed to be drunk?

Side-stepping that question for a while, I think I would probably prefer
to drink a great Sauternes (OK, I mean Yquem) by itself.

Also, in Italian there is a concept "vino da meditazione", which I
believe is basically a wine to be enjoyed slowly by itself, usually a
sweet wine - a passito or recioto.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:46 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Mike wrote on Sun, 01 Nov 2009 09:28:37 +0100:

Steve Slatcher wrote:
aesthete8 wrote:
Is there any great wine that is supposed to be enjoyed
strictly by itself?


Who it it that dictates how wine is supposed to be drunk?

Side-stepping that question for a while, I think I would
probably prefer to drink a great Sauternes (OK, I mean Yquem)
by itself.

Also, in Italian there is a concept "vino da meditazione",
which I believe is basically a wine to be enjoyed slowly by
itself, usually a sweet wine - a passito or recioto.


True, having said that, the count of Lur Saluces thought that drinking
his Yquem on its own was ok, but drinking it with
food was much better. He suggested oysters would be a great
match.


I can't reach the Count's levels of conspicuous consumption but the idea
of *any* sweet wine with oysters is abhorrent to me. You might as well
drink coke or lemonade!!

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Old 01-11-2009, 02:13 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Never to be drunk w/food

Mike Tommasi wrote in
:

I never tried it. However, it seems no worse than the idea of sweet
wine with foie gras. I suppose if acidity is high enough, it may pass,
but the idea of fat+sugar or seafood+sugar is indeed strange.


Wasn't it here that I read about d'Yquem and lobster?


s.

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Old 01-11-2009, 04:02 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On Nov 1, 8:13*am, santiago wrote:
Mike Tommasi wrote :



I never tried it. However, it seems no worse than the idea of sweet
wine with foie gras. I suppose if acidity is high enough, it may pass,
but the idea of fat+sugar or seafood+sugar is indeed strange.


Wasn't it here that I read about d'Yquem and lobster?


I do remember reading in a book or magazine many years ago that one of
the old counts Lur Saluces, who owned Yquem, did like it with lobster.
In the old days, lobster often was served with a very rich and
elaborate sauce as well as rather plain, and I have no idea of what
kind of lobster dish he had in mind.



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Old 01-11-2009, 04:09 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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cwdjrxyz wrote on Sun, 1 Nov 2009 08:02:26 -0800 (PST):

On Nov 1, 8:13 am, santiago wrote:
Mike Tommasi wrote
:

I never tried it. However, it seems no worse than the idea
of sweet wine with foie gras. I suppose if acidity is high
enough, it may pass, but the idea of fat+sugar or
seafood+sugar is indeed strange.


Wasn't it here that I read about d'Yquem and lobster?


quoting

I do remember reading in a book or magazine many years ago that one
ofthe old counts Lur Saluces, who owned Yquem, did like it with
lobster.In the old days, lobster often was served with a very rich
and elaborate sauce as well as rather plain, and I have no idea of
whatkind of lobster dish he had in mind.
endquote


Tastes do change but I believe that the Count Lur Saluces as a gourmet
was a good winemaker (or rather his vintner was). Just like Francis
Coppola as a winemaker, makes successful movies.
--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Old 01-11-2009, 07:45 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On Nov 1, 10:09*am, "James Silverton"
wrote:
*cwdjrxyz *wrote *on Sun, 1 Nov 2009 08:02:26 -0800 (PST):

On Nov 1, 8:13 am, santiago wrote:
Mike Tommasi wrote
:


I never tried it. However, it seems no worse than the idea
of sweet wine with foie gras. I suppose if acidity is high
enough, it may pass, but the idea of fat+sugar or
seafood+sugar is indeed strange.


Wasn't it here that I read about d'Yquem and lobster?

quoting


I do remember reading in a book or magazine many years ago that one
ofthe old counts Lur Saluces, who owned Yquem, did like it with
lobster.In the old days, lobster often was served with a very rich
and elaborate sauce as well as rather plain, and I have no idea of
*whatkind of lobster dish he had in mind.

endquote


Tastes do change but I believe that the Count Lur Saluces as a gourmet
was a good winemaker (or rather his vintner was). Just like Francis
Coppola as a winemaker, makes successful movies.


If you go back to the late 1800s, you find sweet wines often were
served with shellfish at even the most exclusive dinners.The 1893
edition of The Epicurean by Charles Ranhoffer, the then recently
retired Swiss chef of Delmonico's in NYC, gives some menus with wines
listed. Delmonico's then was perhaps the best and most exclusive
restaurant in the US and served the very rich, US presidents, visiting
nobility from Europe, etc. The often 16 or more course menus give a
little insight into what wines were served with food then. There are
of course a lot of Romanee-Conti, Lafite, Krug, and other now
expensive wines listed. Chablis was sometimes served with oysters, but
also Sauternes and Creme de Tete(but the wine name was not given!).
One oyster match is oysters on the shell with Yquem. Another Yquem
match is with Timbales de Sheepshead a l'Ambassadrice(does anyone know
what goes in this dish?). Since much Champagne was sweet back then,
one can not be certain if a Champagne served with a food is sweet or
dry since the house name only for the Champagne, sometimes with a
vintage, often was used.



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Old 01-11-2009, 08:06 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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cwdjrxyz wrote on Sun, 1 Nov 2009 11:45:56 -0800 (PST):

On Nov 1, 10:09 am, "James Silverton"
wrote:
cwdjrxyz wrote on Sun, 1 Nov 2009 08:02:26 -0800 (PST):

On Nov 1, 8:13 am, santiago wrote:
Mike Tommasi wrote
:


I never tried it. However, it seems no worse than the
idea of sweet wine with foie gras. I suppose if acidity
is high enough, it may pass, but the idea of fat+sugar
or seafood+sugar is indeed strange.


Wasn't it here that I read about d'Yquem and lobster?
quoting


I do remember reading in a book or magazine many years ago
that one ofthe old counts Lur Saluces, who owned Yquem, did
like it with lobster.In the old days, lobster often was
served with a very rich and elaborate sauce as well as rather
plain, and I have no idea of whatkind of lobster dish he had
in mind.

endquote


Tastes do change but I believe that the Count Lur Saluces as
a gourmet was a good winemaker (or rather his vintner was).
Just like Francis Coppola as a winemaker, makes successful
movies.


If you go back to the late 1800s, you find sweet wines often were
served with shellfish at even the most exclusive dinners.


We were talking about Chateau d'Yquem with oysters and I assume they
would be raw. Tho' it's not to my taste, I can see sweet wines with
highly sauced shellfish but it's hard to imagine eating a raw oyster
without something acid like lemon or sauce mignonette.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Old 01-11-2009, 08:09 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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In article
,
cwdjrxyz wrote:

On Nov 1, 8:13*am, santiago wrote:
Mike Tommasi wrote
:



I never tried it. However, it seems no worse than the idea of sweet
wine with foie gras. I suppose if acidity is high enough, it may pass,
but the idea of fat+sugar or seafood+sugar is indeed strange.


Wasn't it here that I read about d'Yquem and lobster?


I do remember reading in a book or magazine many years ago that one of
the old counts Lur Saluces, who owned Yquem, did like it with lobster.
In the old days, lobster often was served with a very rich and
elaborate sauce as well as rather plain, and I have no idea of what
kind of lobster dish he had in mind.


It could not have been the simple boiled lobster with drawn butter we
eat here as I don't find that any sweet wines go well with that and my
palate.
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:38 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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"Steve Slatcher" wrote in message
...
aesthete8 wrote:
Is there any great wine that is supposed to be enjoyed strictly by
itself?


Who it it that dictates how wine is supposed to be drunk?

Side-stepping that question for a while, I think I would probably prefer
to drink a great Sauternes (OK, I mean Yquem) by itself.

Also, in Italian there is a concept "vino da meditazione", which I believe
is basically a wine to be enjoyed slowly by itself, usually a sweet wine -
a passito or recioto.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher


Years ago we used to, in a sense, have our cake and eat it. About every
eighteen months four families would get together for a Grange Sunday lunch.
Each family would bring an older bottle of Grange - no duplicates allowed.
The host woul decant them while we sipped champagne. Those who were into it
would spend about an hour savouring, tasting and talking about the four
wines. Then we'd all sit down and drink them with lunch as we would any
everyday red.

Workd for us.

Cheers!
Martin

PS One year one piker brought an non-Grange "This (australian red) is every
bit as good as Grange - you'll love it!" It wasn't, we didn't. That was the
last lunch...



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Old 01-11-2009, 09:45 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Lawrence Leichtman wrote in
:

It could not have been the simple boiled lobster with drawn butter we
eat here as I don't find that any sweet wines go well with that and my
palate.


I would not mind drinking d'Yquem, or a good Sauternes (more on botrytis
than in passerillage style) with grilled wild lobster. Specially if the
wine has some age on it.

In fact, I do not think a Kabinett or even Spatlese with a few years would
be a bad match for many grilled shelfish.

s.
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:46 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Steve wrote on Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:41:02 +0000:

aesthete8 wrote:
Is there any great wine that is supposed to be enjoyed
strictly by itself?


Who it it that dictates how wine is supposed to be drunk?


Side-stepping that question for a while, I think I would
probably prefer to drink a great Sauternes (OK, I mean Yquem) by
itself.


Also, in Italian there is a concept "vino da meditazione",
which I believe is basically a wine to be enjoyed slowly by
itself, usually a sweet wine - a passito or recioto.


I know a number of people who say they don't like white wine but who
will drink a good bottle of red wine *before* a dinner where red is
inappropriate.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

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Old 02-11-2009, 02:46 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default Never to be drunk w/food

In article ,
"James Silverton" wrote:

Steve wrote on Sun, 01 Nov 2009 00:41:02 +0000:

aesthete8 wrote:
Is there any great wine that is supposed to be enjoyed
strictly by itself?


Who it it that dictates how wine is supposed to be drunk?


Side-stepping that question for a while, I think I would
probably prefer to drink a great Sauternes (OK, I mean Yquem) by
itself.


Also, in Italian there is a concept "vino da meditazione",
which I believe is basically a wine to be enjoyed slowly by
itself, usually a sweet wine - a passito or recioto.


I know a number of people who say they don't like white wine but who
will drink a good bottle of red wine *before* a dinner where red is
inappropriate.


I drink almost all wines (even Retsina but not often). I just have never
been a fan of sweet wines with shellfish. A small amount of residual
sugar is one thing but not very sweet such as a sauterne.
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Old 02-11-2009, 05:04 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On Nov 1, 1:45*pm, cwdjrxyz wrote:
Another Yquem
match is with Timbales de Sheepshead a l'Ambassadrice(does anyone know
what goes in this dish?).


Sheepshead is a fish http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheepshead_(fish) .
I could not find the dish made from this fish, but I did find a dish
called Timbale of Fillets of Sole from the late 1800s that may
indicate how such dishes are made. A timbale paste is made from 1
pound of flour, 3/4 pound butter, 5 egg yolks and some salt and water.
This is used to bake a large timbale shell using a special timbale
pan. The inside of the baked timbale is glazed( I would guess that a
fish or chicken glaze would be used). The sole fillets are poached in
butter with salt and lemon juice. Then allemande sauce with minced
truffles and mushrooms is added to the sole and this mixture is used
to fill the timbale shell. Crayfish are used to garnish the top. There
also is another garnish in the form of little pasta cakes with yet
more truffles. Such a dish would be extremely rich and would require a
wine of great intensity not to be over powered by it. Yquem perhaps
has the needed intensity, but I am not sure the match would please
some modern tastes.

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Old 02-11-2009, 05:14 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On Nov 2, 11:04*am, cwdjrxyz wrote:
what goes in this dish?).

Sheepshead is a fishhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheepshead_(fish) .


Use this url instead of the above: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheepshead_(fish)
..


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