I went to dinner at my daughter's home last night. She made a curried
venison and pumpkin stew that was quite tasty. Lot's of Indian spices
and a bit of heat. She picked the wines.
2007 Mark West Central Coast California Pinot Noir-This was on
closeout for $9.99. A bit of sweet cherry and asian spice. A bit
jammy with a fair amount of Cola (sorry Mark!) and vanilla on the
finish fairly low acidity made it a bit flabby. Nothing to rave about
but not bad for under $10. "C+"

2008 Bodega Borsao Monte Oton Garnacha $6.99 imported by Jorge
Ordonez. Crushed red raspberry on the nose. Lot's of flavors going
around but none of them really indicitive of Grenache! Mint, celery,
a bit of Hawaiian Punch, cantelope, it was hard to put my finger on
exactly what it tasted like. Fairly soft and fruity almost no
tannins. "C-"

Both wines displayed a background flavor that must come from the bulk
processing method used in low end wines. It's a bitterness or
aftertaste that lingers that is a bit unpleasant. Perhaps it's the
tannin powder or oak chips or maybe the preservative(s) but I don't
like it. I find it a lot in wines like $2Buck Chuck, Woodbridge, etc.

I suggested that next time I would bring the wine and got a major
league "eye roll and sigh".....(only those of you with daughters can
understand that move) Oh well....a Dad can try.

Bi!! wrote on Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:11:34 -0700 (PDT):

> 2008 Bodega Borsao Monte Oton Garnacha $6.99 imported by Jorge
> Ordonez. Crushed red raspberry on the nose. Lot's of flavors
> going around but none of them really indicitive of Grenache!
> Mint, celery, a bit of Hawaiian Punch, cantelope, it was hard
> to put my finger on exactly what it tasted like. Fairly soft
> and fruity almost no tannins. "C-"

> Both wines displayed a background flavor that must come from
> the bulk processing method used in low end wines. It's a
> bitterness or aftertaste that lingers that is a bit
> unpleasant. Perhaps it's the tannin powder or oak chips or
> maybe the preservative(s) but I don't like it. I find it a
> lot in wines like $2Buck Chuck, Woodbridge, etc.

Could you really taste the wines with curried venison? I don't object to
the dish but I'd have beer or water with it and drink any wine *before*
dinner but, as you say, "Oh well....a Dad can try."


--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"Bi!!" > wrote in message
...

> Both wines displayed a background flavor that must come from the bulk
> processing method used in low end wines. It's a bitterness or
> aftertaste that lingers that is a bit unpleasant. Perhaps it's the
> tannin powder or oak chips or maybe the preservative(s) but I don't
> like it. I find it a lot in wines like $2Buck Chuck, Woodbridge, etc.
>
That taste has been puzzling me as well. I found it recently in an Okanagan
cab franc and I wonder if that flavor might come through if I use the other
bottle I have in a stew.
Incidentally, a guest brought a me a bottle of Yellow Tail merlot. Would
you use it for cooking?
Graham

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> Bi!! wrote on Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:11:34 -0700 (PDT):
>
>> 2008 Bodega Borsao Monte Oton Garnacha $6.99 imported by Jorge
>> Ordonez. Crushed red raspberry on the nose. Lot's of flavors
>> going around but none of them really indicitive of Grenache!
>> Mint, celery, a bit of Hawaiian Punch, cantelope, it was hard
>> to put my finger on exactly what it tasted like. Fairly soft
>> and fruity almost no tannins. "C-"
>
>> Both wines displayed a background flavor that must come from
>> the bulk processing method used in low end wines. It's a
>> bitterness or aftertaste that lingers that is a bit
>> unpleasant. Perhaps it's the tannin powder or oak chips or
>> maybe the preservative(s) but I don't like it. I find it a
>> lot in wines like $2Buck Chuck, Woodbridge, etc.
>
> Could you really taste the wines with curried venison? I don't object to
> the dish but I'd have beer or water with it and drink any wine *before*
> dinner but, as you say, "Oh well....a Dad can try."
>
The best alcoholic drink that I've found goes well with curries is cider.
Graham

On Oct 20, 11:11*am, "Bi!!" > wrote:
> I went to dinner at my daughter's home last night. *She made a curried
> venison and pumpkin stew that was quite tasty. *Lot's of Indian spices
> and a bit of heat. *She picked the wines.
> 2007 Mark West Central Coast California Pinot Noir-This was on
> closeout for $9.99. *A bit of sweet cherry and asian spice. *A bit
> jammy with a fair amount of Cola (sorry Mark!) and vanilla on the
> finish fairly low acidity made it a bit flabby. *Nothing to rave about
> but not bad for under $10. "C+"
>
> 2008 Bodega Borsao Monte Oton Garnacha $6.99 imported by Jorge
> Ordonez. *Crushed red raspberry on the nose. *Lot's of flavors going
> around but none of them really indicitive of Grenache! *Mint, celery,
> a bit of Hawaiian Punch, cantelope, it was hard to put my finger on
> exactly what it tasted like. *Fairly soft and fruity almost no
> tannins. *"C-"
>
> Both wines displayed a background flavor that must come from the bulk
> processing method used in low end wines. *It's a bitterness or
> aftertaste that lingers that is a bit unpleasant. *Perhaps it's the
> tannin powder or oak chips or maybe the preservative(s) but I don't
> like it. *I find it a lot in wines like $2Buck Chuck, Woodbridge, etc.
>
> I suggested that next time I would bring the wine and got a major
> league "eye roll and sigh".....(only those of you with daughters can
> understand that move) Oh well....a Dad can try.

Ouch!
For years the "regular" Borsao (the one that was something like 70%
Garnacha 30% Tempranillo) was one of my favorite cheap wines, I
always liked it more than the Tres Picos. But now they have about 10
different bottlings and I don't know what's what. No longer a safe
buy.

In article
>,
DaleW > wrote:

> On Oct 20, 11:11*am, "Bi!!" > wrote:
> > I went to dinner at my daughter's home last night. *She made a curried
> > venison and pumpkin stew that was quite tasty. *Lot's of Indian spices
> > and a bit of heat. *She picked the wines.
> > 2007 Mark West Central Coast California Pinot Noir-This was on
> > closeout for $9.99. *A bit of sweet cherry and asian spice. *A bit
> > jammy with a fair amount of Cola (sorry Mark!) and vanilla on the
> > finish fairly low acidity made it a bit flabby. *Nothing to rave about
> > but not bad for under $10. "C+"
> >
> > 2008 Bodega Borsao Monte Oton Garnacha $6.99 imported by Jorge
> > Ordonez. *Crushed red raspberry on the nose. *Lot's of flavors going
> > around but none of them really indicitive of Grenache! *Mint, celery,
> > a bit of Hawaiian Punch, cantelope, it was hard to put my finger on
> > exactly what it tasted like. *Fairly soft and fruity almost no
> > tannins. *"C-"
> >
> > Both wines displayed a background flavor that must come from the bulk
> > processing method used in low end wines. *It's a bitterness or
> > aftertaste that lingers that is a bit unpleasant. *Perhaps it's the
> > tannin powder or oak chips or maybe the preservative(s) but I don't
> > like it. *I find it a lot in wines like $2Buck Chuck, Woodbridge, etc.
> >
> > I suggested that next time I would bring the wine and got a major
> > league "eye roll and sigh".....(only those of you with daughters can
> > understand that move) Oh well....a Dad can try.
>
> Ouch!
> For years the "regular" Borsao (the one that was something like 70%
> Garnacha 30% Tempranillo) was one of my favorite cheap wines, I
> always liked it more than the Tres Picos. But now they have about 10
> different bottlings and I don't know what's what. No longer a safe
> buy.

Not sure what regular is now in Borsao as there is the Tres Picos.
Campo, Tres Picos Old Vines. Borsao, Campo de Borja Monte Orton, Campo
de Borja Viña, Borsao Tinto, Crianza, anything I am missing here. Almost
all of them are a good value though for me.

By the way, does the eye rolling ever stop?

On Oct 20, 5:46�pm, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> �DaleW > wrote:
> > On Oct 20, 11:11�am, "Bi!!" > wrote:
> > > I went to dinner at my daughter's home last night. �She made a curried
> > > venison and pumpkin stew that was quite tasty. �Lot's of Indian spices
> > > and a bit of heat. �She picked the wines.
> > > 2007 Mark West Central Coast California Pinot Noir-This was on
> > > closeout for $9.99. �A bit of sweet cherry and asian spice. �A bit
> > > jammy with a fair amount of Cola (sorry Mark!) and vanilla on the
> > > finish fairly low acidity made it a bit flabby. �Nothing to rave about
> > > but not bad for under $10. "C+"
>
> > > 2008 Bodega Borsao Monte Oton Garnacha $6.99 imported by Jorge
> > > Ordonez. �Crushed red raspberry on the nose. �Lot's of flavors going
> > > around but none of them really indicitive of Grenache! �Mint, celery,
> > > a bit of Hawaiian Punch, cantelope, it was hard to put my finger on
> > > exactly what it tasted like. �Fairly soft and fruity almost no
> > > tannins. �"C-"
>
> > > Both wines displayed a background flavor that must come from the bulk
> > > processing method used in low end wines. �It's a bitterness or
> > > aftertaste that lingers that is a bit unpleasant. �Perhaps it's the
> > > tannin powder or oak chips or maybe the preservative(s) but I don't
> > > like it. �I find it a lot in wines like $2Buck Chuck, Woodbridge, etc.
>
> > > I suggested that next time I would bring the wine and got a major
> > > league "eye roll and sigh".....(only those of you with daughters can
> > > understand that move) Oh well....a Dad can try.
>
> > Ouch!
> > For years the "regular" Borsao (the one that was something like 70%
> > Garnacha 30% Tempranillo) was one �of my favorite cheap wines, I
> > always liked it more than the Tres Picos. But now they have about 10
> > different bottlings and I don't know what's what. No longer a safe
> > buy.
>
> Not sure what regular is now in Borsao as there is the Tres Picos.
> Campo, Tres Picos Old Vines. Borsao, Campo de Borja Monte Orton, Campo
> de Borja Vi�a, Borsao Tinto, Crianza, anything I am missing here. Almost
> all of them are a good value though for me.
>
> By the way, does the eye rolling ever stop?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, She's 30 and it hasn't stopped yet.............

On Oct 20, 11:24�am, "James Silverton" >
wrote:
> �Bi!! �wrote �on Tue, 20 Oct 2009 08:11:34 -0700 (PDT):
>
> > 2008 Bodega Borsao Monte Oton Garnacha $6.99 imported by Jorge
> > Ordonez. �Crushed red raspberry on the nose. �Lot's of flavors
> > going around but none of them really indicitive of Grenache!
> > Mint, celery, a bit of Hawaiian Punch, cantelope, it was hard
> > to put my finger on exactly what it tasted like. �Fairly soft
> > and fruity almost no tannins. �"C-"
> > Both wines displayed a background flavor that must come from
> > the bulk processing method used in low end wines. �It's a
> > bitterness or aftertaste that lingers that is a bit
> > unpleasant. �Perhaps it's the tannin powder or oak chips or
> > maybe the preservative(s) but I don't like it. �I find it a
> > lot in wines like $2Buck Chuck, Woodbridge, etc.
>
> Could you really taste the wines with curried venison? I don't object to
> the dish but I'd have beer or water with it and drink any wine *before*
> dinner but, as you say, "Oh well....a Dad can try."
>
> --
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

The curry was spicy but not hot and since I was a guest I didn't
object.....I just said I'd bring the wine next time....that's when I
got the eye roll and sigh.

Bi!! wrote:

>
> The curry was spicy but not hot and since I was a guest I didn't
> object.....I just said I'd bring the wine next time....that's when I
> got the eye roll and sigh.

Bill,
Not to belabor the obvious, but even in your well-meant suggestion is
an implicit criticism of her wines, hence her tastes. It's not an easy
line to walk, but I'd suggest that even the use of the interrogative
softens the criticism ("Would it be OK if I contributed the wine to the
next dinner? I'd be very happy to do so.") Granted, an astute listener
gets the same message about the wines at the current meal, but it tends
to appease some people. I have had a few similar conversations with
friends and relatives, so I know all too well the discomfort.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

DaleW wrote:

> Ouch!
> For years the "regular" Borsao (the one that was something like 70%
> Garnacha 30% Tempranillo) was one of my favorite cheap wines, I
> always liked it more than the Tres Picos. But now they have about 10
> different bottlings and I don't know what's what. No longer a safe
> buy.

I was wondering about that, too, as I'd only ever heard of the Borsao
and Tres Picos. Were they always imported by Jorge Ordoñez? Could that
be what's changed?

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Oct 20, 10:28*pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> DaleW wrote:
> > Ouch!
> > For years the "regular" Borsao (the one that was something like 70%
> > Garnacha 30% Tempranillo) was one *of my favorite cheap wines, I
> > always liked it more than the Tres Picos. But now they have about 10
> > different bottlings and I don't know what's what. No longer a safe
> > buy.
>
> I was wondering about that, too, as I'd only ever heard of the Borsao
> and Tres Picos. *Were they always imported by Jorge Ordoñez? *Could that
> be what's changed?
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: *http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

I think they were always Ordonez, but don't know for certain. But it
went from 2 to 4 to now 6 or more wines:
http://www.bodegasborsao.com/es/catalogo.php

And I don't see the one I think of as the "regular" (has label like
the Primizia, but different composition)

On Oct 20, 8:13�pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Bi!! wrote:
>
> > The curry was spicy but not hot and since I was a guest I didn't
> > object.....I just said I'd bring the wine next time....that's when I
> > got the eye roll and sigh.
>
> Bill,
> � �Not to belabor the obvious, but even in your well-meant suggestion is
> an implicit criticism of her wines, hence her tastes. �It's not an easy
> line to walk, but I'd suggest that even the use of the interrogative
> softens the criticism ("Would it be OK if I contributed the wine to the
> next dinner? �I'd be very happy to do so.") �Granted, an astute listener
> gets the same message about the wines at the current meal, but it tends
> to appease some people. �I have had a few similar conversations with
> friends and relatives, so I know all too well the discomfort.
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Mark,
If you spend any time with me face to face you'll understand
that she absolutely knew what my assesssment of these wines were.
She's a real blonde beauty, a wonderful mother and wife (my son-in-law
tells me), a talented artist and business person, I love her to
death...but her taste in wine has become a legendary joke within the
family. She took no offense and tolerates her old Dad's affliction
for wine with her eye rolling and shrugs. But thanks for the thought.

Bi!! wrote:

> Mark,
> If you spend any time with me face to face you'll understand
> that she absolutely knew what my assesssment of these wines were.
> She's a real blonde beauty, a wonderful mother and wife (my son-in-law
> tells me), a talented artist and business person, I love her to
> death...but her taste in wine has become a legendary joke within the
> family. She took no offense and tolerates her old Dad's affliction
> for wine with her eye rolling and shrugs. But thanks for the thought.

Got it, Bill. In the scheme of things, you could do a lot worse than a
lack of taste in wine, so I suppose that it's a problem you can live with.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

In article >, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

> Bi!! wrote:
>
> >
> > The curry was spicy but not hot and since I was a guest I didn't
> > object.....I just said I'd bring the wine next time....that's when I
> > got the eye roll and sigh.
>
> Bill,
> Not to belabor the obvious, but even in your well-meant suggestion is
> an implicit criticism of her wines, hence her tastes. It's not an easy
> line to walk, but I'd suggest that even the use of the interrogative
> softens the criticism ("Would it be OK if I contributed the wine to the
> next dinner? I'd be very happy to do so.") Granted, an astute listener
> gets the same message about the wines at the current meal, but it tends
> to appease some people. I have had a few similar conversations with
> friends and relatives, so I know all too well the discomfort.
>
> Mark Lipton

Even with that, I will get an eye roll from my daughter or sometimes a
snit. I have never told her that her tastes in wine are not mine but I
always ask if I may bring the wine next time to save her the expense.
Still get the same response but then I get that with almost anything.

In article
>,
"Bi!!" > wrote:

> On Oct 20, 5:46?pm, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ?DaleW > wrote:
> > > On Oct 20, 11:11?am, "Bi!!" > wrote:
> > > > I went to dinner at my daughter's home last night. ?She made a curried
> > > > venison and pumpkin stew that was quite tasty. ?Lot's of Indian spices
> > > > and a bit of heat. ?She picked the wines.
> > > > 2007 Mark West Central Coast California Pinot Noir-This was on
> > > > closeout for $9.99. ?A bit of sweet cherry and asian spice. ?A bit
> > > > jammy with a fair amount of Cola (sorry Mark!) and vanilla on the
> > > > finish fairly low acidity made it a bit flabby. ?Nothing to rave about
> > > > but not bad for under $10. "C+"
> >
> > > > 2008 Bodega Borsao Monte Oton Garnacha $6.99 imported by Jorge
> > > > Ordonez. ?Crushed red raspberry on the nose. ?Lot's of flavors going
> > > > around but none of them really indicitive of Grenache! ?Mint, celery,
> > > > a bit of Hawaiian Punch, cantelope, it was hard to put my finger on
> > > > exactly what it tasted like. ?Fairly soft and fruity almost no
> > > > tannins. ?"C-"
> >
> > > > Both wines displayed a background flavor that must come from the bulk
> > > > processing method used in low end wines. ?It's a bitterness or
> > > > aftertaste that lingers that is a bit unpleasant. ?Perhaps it's the
> > > > tannin powder or oak chips or maybe the preservative(s) but I don't
> > > > like it. ?I find it a lot in wines like $2Buck Chuck, Woodbridge, etc.
> >
> > > > I suggested that next time I would bring the wine and got a major
> > > > league "eye roll and sigh".....(only those of you with daughters can
> > > > understand that move) Oh well....a Dad can try.
> >
> > > Ouch!
> > > For years the "regular" Borsao (the one that was something like 70%
> > > Garnacha 30% Tempranillo) was one ?of my favorite cheap wines, I
> > > always liked it more than the Tres Picos. But now they have about 10
> > > different bottlings and I don't know what's what. No longer a safe
> > > buy.
> >
> > Not sure what regular is now in Borsao as there is the Tres Picos.
> > Campo, Tres Picos Old Vines. Borsao, Campo de Borja Monte Orton, Campo
> > de Borja Vi?a, Borsao Tinto, Crianza, anything I am missing here. Almost
> > all of them are a good value though for me.
> >
> > By the way, does the eye rolling ever stop?- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Well, She's 30 and it hasn't stopped yet.............

Yep mine is 29.