In his book, Key to Gracious Living, (pub.1972) Peter Robotti, restaurateur,
writes: "My own experience with sommeliers is that they invariably offer the
highest price wine."

In Australia I reckon this hold pretty much true 37 years on. And if it's
not actually the highest priced wine, they do have a certain knack of
upselling... Never has any sommelier ever suggested to me the inexpensive
wines on their list.

Other parts of the world?

Cheers!

Martin

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:13:40 +1000, "Martin Field"
> wrote:

>In his book, Key to Gracious Living, (pub.1972) Peter Robotti, restaurateur,
>writes: "My own experience with sommeliers is that they invariably offer the
>highest price wine."
>
>In Australia I reckon this hold pretty much true 37 years on. And if it's
>not actually the highest priced wine, they do have a certain knack of
>upselling... Never has any sommelier ever suggested to me the inexpensive
>wines on their list.
>
>Other parts of the world?
>
>Cheers!
>
>Martin
>
It is their job afterall. I don't mind the upsell as much as the
dismisal of a good lower cost alternative. The good Sommelier will
acknowledge your tastes.
Joseph Coulter
Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations
www.josephcoulter.com

"Joseph Coulter" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:13:40 +1000, "Martin Field"
> > wrote:
>
>>In his book, Key to Gracious Living, (pub.1972) Peter Robotti,
>>restaurateur,
>>writes: "My own experience with sommeliers is that they invariably offer
>>the
>>highest price wine."
>>
>>In Australia I reckon this hold pretty much true 37 years on. And if it's
>>not actually the highest priced wine, they do have a certain knack of
>>upselling... Never has any sommelier ever suggested to me the inexpensive
>>wines on their list.
>>
>>Other parts of the world?
>>
>>Cheers!
>>
>>Martin
>>
> It is their job afterall. I don't mind the upsell as much as the
> dismisal of a good lower cost alternative. The good Sommelier will
> acknowledge your tastes.
> Joseph Coulter
> Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations
> www.josephcoulter.com

Surely the crucial core of their job is to knowledgeably advise diners
about wine selections and suitable wine and food matches - not to market
expensive wines...

Cheers!

Martin

Martin Field wrote:

> Surely the crucial core of their job is to knowledgeably advise diners
> about wine selections and suitable wine and food matches - not to market
> expensive wines...

and that is typical of my experience with the sommeliers I've dealt
with. Granted, these have been good sommeliers in restaurants that care
about wine, and I also have very specific questions from them rather
than an open-ended "what should I order?" Nonetheless, I almost always
get good advice that doesn't seem at all about trying to pressure me to
pay more than I'm interested in paying.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

"Mark Lipton" > skrev i melding
...

> ...Nonetheless, I almost always
> get good advice that doesn't seem at all about trying to pressure me to
> pay more than I'm interested in paying.
>
My experience too. I state the framework - type of wine I like, my price
level and they pick a recommendation for the food from what is available -
that's what sommeliers are for!

:-) Anders

when on the rare occasion, I go to a restaurant with a sommelier, I still
make my own choice.

but now as a pensioner, I do most of my dining and fine wine drinking with
friends at home.

JT

"JT" > skrev i melding
...
> when on the rare occasion, I go to a restaurant with a sommelier, I still
> make my own choice.
>
> but now as a pensioner, I do most of my dining and fine wine drinking with
> friends at home.
>
I'm in the same situation :-) but when there is a sommelier, there is often
a couple of suggestions for me to choose from. After all, it is they who
should know the restaurant's wines...
A

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 11:13:33 +1000, "Martin Field"
> wrote:

>"Joseph Coulter" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:13:40 +1000, "Martin Field"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>In his book, Key to Gracious Living, (pub.1972) Peter Robotti,
>>>restaurateur,
>>>writes: "My own experience with sommeliers is that they invariably offer
>>>the
>>>highest price wine."
>>>
>>>In Australia I reckon this hold pretty much true 37 years on. And if it's
>>>not actually the highest priced wine, they do have a certain knack of
>>>upselling... Never has any sommelier ever suggested to me the inexpensive
>>>wines on their list.
>>>
>>>Other parts of the world?
>>>
>>>Cheers!
>>>
>>>Martin
>>>
>> It is their job afterall. I don't mind the upsell as much as the
>> dismisal of a good lower cost alternative. The good Sommelier will
>> acknowledge your tastes.
>> Joseph Coulter
>> Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations
>> www.josephcoulter.com
>
>Surely the crucial core of their job is to knowledgeably advise diners
>about wine selections and suitable wine and food matches - not to market
>expensive wines...
>
>Cheers!
>
>Martin
When they do the job right they will not just steer to the stars. What
I was trying to say in my prior post is that a good one will listen to
your tastes and make a recommendation to fit, albeit often at the top
of your range. Really good ones will offer something down range, but I
think that many at least in the US fear that if they acknowledge good
wines at low prices it says something bargain about their knowledge.

You know it is tlike th ladies on the street, they all sell the same
basic thing and don't want to go down market. :-)
Joseph Coulter
Joseph Coulter Cruises and Vacations
www.josephcoulter.com

On Oct 5, 11:03�pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Martin Field wrote:
> > Surely the crucial core of their job is �to knowledgeably advise diners
> > about wine selections and suitable wine and food matches - not to market
> > expensive wines...
>
> and that is typical of my experience with the sommeliers I've dealt
> with. �Granted, these have been good sommeliers in restaurants that care
> about wine, and I also have very specific questions from them rather
> than an open-ended "what should I order?" �Nonetheless, I almost always
> get good advice that doesn't seem at all about trying to pressure me to
> pay more than I'm interested in paying.
>
> Mark Lipton
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Mine too. I usually already know what I want or I will point to a
wine and ask for a suggestion given what we are eating. By pointing
to a wine, they know what your price point is and generally they find
a wine lower priced than what you point to.

Most of the time, the most inexpensive wines on a wine list are the
worst values. Steering you away could be a big favor.

Martin Field wrote:
> In his book, Key to Gracious Living, (pub.1972) Peter Robotti,
> restaurateur, writes: "My own experience with sommeliers is that they
> invariably offer the highest price wine."
>
> In Australia I reckon this hold pretty much true 37 years on. And if
> it's not actually the highest priced wine, they do have a certain knack
> of upselling... Never has any sommelier ever suggested to me the
> inexpensive wines on their list.
>
> Other parts of the world?
>
> Cheers!
>
> Martin
>
>

On Oct 6, 3:36*pm, Jonathon Alsop > wrote:
> Most of the time, the most inexpensive wines on a wine list are the
> worst values. *Steering you away could be a big favor.
>

Not being a wealthy man, with a non-drinking wife, I've settled for
the 'by the glass' option, and found that the lowest price was a label
you could find at any grocery store.

BTW, Jonathon, I read your Vino Veritas page often a few years ago and
learned quite a lot about wine enjoyment and experienced several new
wines I never would have tried and ended up liking.


Expanding my world view, one bottle at a time.

Mark E Sievert

Thank you for that, Mark... I am writing a book now, so stay tuned...
coming next June.

Thanks again!

Jonathon
--
Boston Wine School
http://www.BostonWineSchool.com

mobile +1.617.784.7150 | fax +1.888.833.9528
1354 Commonwealth Avenue Allston MA USA 02134
_______________________

Follow on Twitter.com/JonathonAlsop


Mark E Sievert wrote:
> On Oct 6, 3:36 pm, Jonathon Alsop > wrote:
>> Most of the time, the most inexpensive wines on a wine list are the
>> worst values. Steering you away could be a big favor.
>>
>
> Not being a wealthy man, with a non-drinking wife, I've settled for
> the 'by the glass' option, and found that the lowest price was a label
> you could find at any grocery store.
>
> BTW, Jonathon, I read your Vino Veritas page often a few years ago and
> learned quite a lot about wine enjoyment and experienced several new
> wines I never would have tried and ended up liking.
>
>
> Expanding my world view, one bottle at a time.
>
> Mark E Sievert

"Martin Field" > wrote in message
. au...
> In his book, Key to Gracious Living, (pub.1972) Peter Robotti,
> restaurateur, writes: "My own experience with sommeliers is that they
> invariably offer the highest price wine."
>
> In Australia I reckon this hold pretty much true 37 years on. And if it's
> not actually the highest priced wine, they do have a certain knack of
> upselling... Never has any sommelier ever suggested to me the inexpensive
> wines on their list.
>
> Other parts of the world?
>
> Cheers!
>
> Martin
>
>

Based on meals in France and the Benelux countries, I cannot confirm your
experience, Martin, but maybe it depends on how you put the question. As I
prefer to venture into unknown territories when I am confronted with a huge
wine list, I tend to point at two or three "intriguing" wines on the list to
the sommelier, asking innocently for some guidance and for possible
alternatives. The point is that the man will know about the price range you
are thinking of and he will do his best to find a suitable bottle for you.

Yves

Wotcha Martin,

On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:13:40 +1000, "Martin Field"
> wrote:

>In his book, Key to Gracious Living, (pub.1972) Peter Robotti, restaurateur,
>writes: "My own experience with sommeliers is that they invariably offer the
>highest price wine."
>
>Other parts of the world?

As several others have said, that's not been my experience. I won't
bore you with the story of what happened at the old Tante Claire in
London, but suffice it to say that the Sommelier suggested a bin end
at 1/3 the price of the (quite similar) wine I had been thinking of.

In fact, I've never, to my knowledge, had a sommelier try to talk up
the top end wines. Even if I can find my way roumd a wine list
reasonably well, I don't pretend to know the food as well as the
Sommelier should do, and so will often ask advice.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

On Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:09:11 +0200, IanH > wrote:

> Wotcha Martin,
>
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:13:40 +1000, "Martin Field"
> > wrote:
>
> >In his book, Key to Gracious Living, (pub.1972) Peter Robotti, restaurateur,
> >writes: "My own experience with sommeliers is that they invariably offer the
> >highest price wine."
> >
> >Other parts of the world?
>
> As several others have said, that's not been my experience. I won't
> bore you with the story of what happened at the old Tante Claire in
> London, but suffice it to say that the Sommelier suggested a bin end
> at 1/3 the price of the (quite similar) wine I had been thinking of.
>
> In fact, I've never, to my knowledge, had a sommelier try to talk up
> the top end wines. Even if I can find my way roumd a wine list
> reasonably well, I don't pretend to know the food as well as the
> Sommelier should do, and so will often ask advice.


My experience is almost the same as yours, Ian, from sommeliers all
over the world. I've sometime asked a sommelier to recommend an
inexpensive wine (and gotten such a recommendation), but even when I
don't, I usually get inexpensive to moderately-priced recommendations.

*Never* have I gotten a recommendation of the highest-priced wine on
the list, or anything even close to it.

--
Ken Blake
Please Reply to the Newsgroup

"IanH" > wrote in message
...
> Wotcha Martin,
>
> On Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:13:40 +1000, "Martin Field"
> > wrote:
>
>>In his book, Key to Gracious Living, (pub.1972) Peter Robotti,
>>restaurateur,
>>writes: "My own experience with sommeliers is that they invariably offer
>>the
>>highest price wine."
>>
>>Other parts of the world?
>
> As several others have said, that's not been my experience. I won't
> bore you with the story of what happened at the old Tante Claire in
> London, but suffice it to say that the Sommelier suggested a bin end
> at 1/3 the price of the (quite similar) wine I had been thinking of.
>
> In fact, I've never, to my knowledge, had a sommelier try to talk up
> the top end wines. Even if I can find my way roumd a wine list
> reasonably well, I don't pretend to know the food as well as the
> Sommelier should do, and so will often ask advice.
> --
> All the best
> Fatty from Forges

Hi Ian - Judging by AFW comments things have changed since Robotti's
experiences in New York and the US in the '70s.

The trend I mentioned must be must be a modern Australian phenomenon where,
admittedly, trained or professional sommeliers have been scarce on the
ground. I quote my own words here about local dining:

"Noosa is often touted as Australia's premier tourist destination and its
best restaurants are highly regarded and reviewed.

"The top shelf restaurants do offer food and service (and prices) on a par
with leading restaurants in Sydney and Melbourne. However, at some of the
also-ran eateries, while prices remain high, the service, especially the
wine service, can be abysmal.

"We've had champagne corks popped and the expensive contents dribbled over
the floor. Older vintage corks destroyed by poor opening technique 'Ever
thought of cutting off the capsule first?' I muttered. And bottles handled
carelessly and wine poured as if it were beer." etc.

Cheers!

Martin