A few weeks aago Nicolas Joly was here in Austria. He held a
one-day conference on the principles of biodynamic winegrowing.
Location was Weingut Meinklang (Herr & Frau Michlits, Pamhagen,
Burgenland), Austria's largest biodynamic wine estate (50
hectares). I was in charge of translating Mr. Joly from French to
German -- somehow exhausting, if you that all day long ... ;-(

Anyhow, his Business Card reads:

Nicolas Joly

Gérant de la Société

Nature assistant not wine maker

...


I quite like it ... ;-)

M.

Hi M.

nice card!

/mode tongue in cheek=on/

perhaps he cannot put winemaker since his daughter is in charge of
winemaking now?

/mode tongue in cheek=off/

I suppose it was interesting. I have read his book about byodinamics and
found it horribly bad written and plenty of dogma. I prefer his wines to
his speech.

s.

On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 10:03:33 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
wrote:

>santiago wrote:
>> Hi M.
>>
>> nice card!
>>
>> /mode tongue in cheek=on/
>>
>> perhaps he cannot put winemaker since his daughter is in charge of
>> winemaking now?
>>
>> /mode tongue in cheek=off/
>>
>> I suppose it was interesting. I have read his book about byodinamics and
>> found it horribly bad written and plenty of dogma. I prefer his wines to
>> his speech.
>
>I like the bit on his website stating unequivocally that biodynamic
>wines cannot oxidize

Err, can you please give me the UR in which this claim is made. All I
could find was a description in execrable english of what happens when
you taste wine once opened. I quote.

"Once opened, wines made in this way continue to improve – and are in
no way oxydized.
To be sure that the color is not oxydation you can make the test
yourself by tasting each day a glass over several days without putting
the bottle in the fridge just recork. You will see the wine improving
the first days even sometimes over more than a week. If the wine would
be oxydized it would be undrinkable."

That's not the same at all, is it?


--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

Mike Tommasi wrote:
> IanH wrote:
>> On Sun, 19 Apr 2009 10:03:33 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> santiago wrote:
>>>> Hi M.
>>>>
>>>> nice card!
>>>>
>>>> /mode tongue in cheek=on/
>>>>
>>>> perhaps he cannot put winemaker since his daughter is in charge of
>>>> winemaking now?
>>>>
>>>> /mode tongue in cheek=off/
>>>>
>>>> I suppose it was interesting. I have read his book about byodinamics
>>>> and found it horribly bad written and plenty of dogma. I prefer his
>>>> wines to his speech.
>>> I like the bit on his website stating unequivocally that biodynamic
>>> wines cannot oxidize
>>
>> Err, can you please give me the UR in which this claim is made. All I
>> could find was a description in execrable english of what happens when
>> you taste wine once opened. I quote.
>>
>> "Once opened, wines made in this way continue to improve – and are in
>> no way oxydized.
>> To be sure that the color is not oxydation you can make the test
>> yourself by tasting each day a glass over several days without putting
>> the bottle in the fridge just recork. You will see the wine improving
>> the first days even sometimes over more than a week. If the wine would
>> be oxydized it would be undrinkable."
>>
>> That's not the same at all, is it?
>
> No, it's he http://www.coulee-de-serrant.com/cellier.html
>
> "Les vins issus d’agriculture biodynamique ne craignent pas l’oxydation"
>
> more or less: "Wines made through biodynamic agriculture cannot suffer
> from oxydation."
>
>

This sounds like Depardieu all over again. I read this as
"are not prone to oxydation." (lit "don't have fear of"). I sometimes
help with French press releases in English, I would not accept your
translation, sorry.

Regardless of course, I don't see how biodynamic methods effect
oxidization, so we agreed on the "fond." (To put it into proper
franglais).

-E

How about this (from the same source): "Le soufre est une forme de lumière."
(lit "sulphur is a form of light").
It is a relief that most biodynamical procedures are in themselves fairly
innocent ... and some wines, but certainly not all, emanating from
biodynamical practice are, indeed, quite good ...

Cheers

Nils

"Mike Tommasi" > skrev i meddelandet
...
> Nils Gustaf Lindgren wrote:
>> How about this (from the same source): "Le soufre est une forme de
>> lumière." (lit "sulphur is a form of light").
>> It is a relief that most biodynamical procedures are in themselves fairly
>> innocent ... and some wines, but certainly not all, emanating from
>> biodynamical practice are, indeed, quite good ...
>
> I would say that most are quite good, and many are excellent.

Once again, I tend to think that the secret is in dedication - you can't do
all that cow's horn stuff and whAtever without being dedicated to your work.
That, and possibly the lack of pesticides resulting (hopefully) in a living
soil.

OTOH, I do not for a moment doubt that I don't know anything.

Cheers

Nils

On Apr 19, 4:03*am, Mike Tommasi > wrote:
t biodynamic
> wines cannot oxidize. Sigh, his own wines in some years are living proof
> of the contrary.


Indeed. Not on my buy list, quite risky.

Hi again Mike,
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 09:06:22 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
wrote:

>"Les vins issus d’agriculture biodynamique ne craignent pas l’oxydation"
>
>more or less: "Wines made through biodynamic agriculture cannot suffer
>from oxydation."

Thanks very much, though I don't altogether agree with your
interpretation. I did go and have a look, of course, and taken in
context his whole paragraph is a lot less extreme. I'm quoting it in
full and will do my best to give an honest translation.

========

Soutirage : nous les multiplions :

c’est un apport d’oxygène.
Les vins issus d’agriculture biodynamique ne craignent pas l’oxydation
mais plutôt la réduction (goût de mercaptan dû à un manque d’oxygène).
L’oxydation est une force de vieillissement et la biodynamie accroît
considérablement les forces de vie dans le vin.
Le vin issu d’un raisin bien né, avec une agriculture très saine, est
longtemps amélioré par l’oxydation, avant d’en souffrir. Dans une
bouteille à moitié pleine et rebouchée nos vins sont souvent meilleurs
après 3 à 4 jours.
A chaque soutirage, nous apportons un petit sulfitage de 2 gr environ
qui n’est en rien nocif. Le soufre est une forme de lumière. Il est
possible de faire un vin sans soufre mais il risque de mal voyager à
moins qu’il n’ait subi d’autres traitements, à notre avis plus
pernicieux (acide ascorbique, sorbate de potassium etc.).

===========
Racking : we often do it (we multiply them)

It brings oxygen.

Wines made using Biodynamic agricuiltural methods aren't so much
danger from oxydation as from reduction (with tastes of mercaptan
caused by a lack of oxygen). Oxydation drives aging and biodynamics
greatly increases the life force in wine.

Wine coming from a well raised grape, with very health giving
agriculture is improved by oxydation for a long time, before finally
being damaged by it. In a half full bottle, that has been subequently
stoppered, our wines are often better after 3 to 4 days.

At each racking, we add a little sulfite , around a couple of grams,
which is in no way harmful. Sulphur is a form of light. it is possible
to make a wine without sulphur, but it is in danger of travelling
badly, unless it has undergone other treatment, which in our opinion
are more harmful (ascorbic acid, potassium sorbate etc)
=========

I think you'll agree that this is a little different to your original
statement.Far less contentious, IMO.

That said... i shuddered at the "sulphur is form of light" rubbish
and find little in Vitamin C to worry about. In fact on balance I
think I'd rather see a wine treated with Vitamin C to protect it from
oxidation than with sulphur.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

Mike Tommasi wrote:
> Ian wrote:
> cut
>> c’est un apport d’oxygène.
>> Les vins issus d’agriculture biodynamique ne craignent pas l’oxydation
>> mais plutôt la réduction (goût de mercaptan dû à un manque d’oxygène).
>> L’oxydation est une force de vieillissement et la biodynamie accroît
>> considérablement les forces de vie dans le vin.
> cut
>>
>> Wines made using Biodynamic agricuiltural methods aren't so much
>> danger from oxydation as from reduction (with tastes of mercaptan
>> caused by a lack of oxygen). Oxydation drives aging and biodynamics
>> greatly increases the life force in wine.
> cut
>> =========
>>
>> I think you'll agree that this is a little different to your original
>> statement.Far less contentious, IMO.
>
> OK Ian. But if I were to translate your sentence back to French I would
> write "Les vins issus d’agriculture biodynamique craignent moins
> l’oxydation que la réduction"
>
> I think the sense of the original sentence is stronger, though perhaps
> not as strong as my first hack :-) Something like "Wines made using
> Biodynamic agricuiltural methods do not fear oxydation but rather
> reduction"

Hey, Mike!
Have you received any emails from me in the last 1-2 weeks?

Mark

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Mike Tommasi > wrote in news:756oupF14ksclU1
@mid.individual.net:
>
> OK for Can Roca, I am not likely to join you on that date, but let's see
> about doing something in Barça earlier in the week, maybe Mon Vìnic yes!

Hi Mike,

you could meet in Barna (short way to say Barcelona), but not Barça which
is actually the slang way to call F.C. Barcelona, the football team.

Best,

s.

santiago wrote:
> Mike Tommasi > wrote in news:756oupF14ksclU1
> @mid.individual.net:
>
>>OK for Can Roca, I am not likely to join you on that date, but let's see
>>about doing something in Barça earlier in the week, maybe Mon Vìnic yes!
>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> you could meet in Barna (short way to say Barcelona), but not Barça which
> is actually the slang way to call F.C. Barcelona, the football team.

Hi, S.!
Most likely that's my fault, as I started it in an email exchange.
Good to know, though, before venturing over there. Any way to drag you
over to the other coast in early June for a get-together with Mike? If
so, drop me a line.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net