Last night Andy hosted SOBER. Various events with this group have been
astounding, but last night the bar was raised (actually, the bar
disappeared into the sky). Mark and I splurged to share a car service,
I was really thrilled not to be spitting. Just an extraordinary
lineup.

(I graded tougher than usual due to general high level)

With some canapes (trout I think) , the 1985 Krug. I generally say
that I like the lighter styled house a la Taittinger more than the
bigger, cereally, full styles like Krug. Yet this was my favorite Krug
I remember- fullbodied, but amazingly fresh and sprightly. Great zippy
acids, lots of yeasty/biscuity notes, chalky minerals on the finish.
A-

At table,we started with a pair of whites, accompanied by a version of
an Alsace tarte, along with endive and a little blue cheese. As usual
wines were double blind, this night we all mostly flailed (in my case
partly because I had seldom had wines of this age/quality)

White #1
Darker color, nose of honey and flowers, but on the palate it comes
across as heavy and low-acid, alcoholic/hot, very mature. I'm thinking
it's 20+ years old. 2003 Chapoutier "Le Meal" Eermitage blanc C+
*
White #2
lighter, brighter (someone guessed Coche, white Burg seemed a
reasonable guess for me), fresh apple fruit with spice and an exotic
bent. 2004 Chapoutier "Le Meal" Eermitage blanc B+/A-

Hard to believe they were same wine, one vintage apart

On to the first red flight (with duck confit and potato)

Red #1
Just an accent of barnyard, excellent depth and concentration, lots of
complexity, but fruit is fairly young. I'm really loving this,
guessing maybe 1978, but it's older. 1962 Rousseau Chambertin A-

Red #2
This has a madierized edge on the nose, though it's not apparent on
palate, and fades a bit even on nose. Earth, forest floor, just a hint
of caramel. 1962 Rousseau Chambertin Clos de Beze. B

I think consensus was *that this was more a bottle issue than any
evidence the CdB was well behind the straight Chambertin.

I thought the next flight (especially number 3) was well-aged Merlot,
something like a '64 Right Banker. Others went for old California,
eventually someone decided on Rhone (correctly)

Red #3
Plummy ripe red fruit, still some grip, cedar and leather. I like a
lot.
1961 Jaboulet "Les Jumelles" Cote Rotie B+/A-
*
Red #4
Mature red fruit, not quite as lively as its flightmate, a bit
shorter. Andy says he's had much better bottles of the same, but this
isn't a slouch. 1961 Jaboulet-Isnard Hermitage B/B+
*
Next flight was , um, memorable

Red #5
A bit more restrained than flightmate, solid dark fruit, lead pencil,
resolved tannins, fairly fresh fruit, but nice tertiary notes of
hummus and leather. 1959 Lafite Rothschild A-

Red #6
Big rich fruit, mint and eucalyptus, guesses centered around CA,
though I though maybe herbier Right Bank Bordeaux (something like '82
Figeac). Ripe and concentrated, extraordinary length, aromas of earth,
vanilla, and cigarbox. 1959 Mouton Rothschild A
*
OK, there were two wine I'll probably never taste again!

With the cheese course, a couple more reds made the rounds (unblind)

1974 Heitz Martha's Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon
Chosen because apparently it's been used to counterfeit the '59 Mouton
before. Definite similarities- the same slight sense of exoticism,
notes of herbs and spice, similar ripeness. There's sandalwood and
coffee, big young ripe fruit, in the end different from the Mouton,
but also a great wine. A

1982 Silver Oak Cabernet Sauvignon (Alexander Valley)
OK, I've used the phrase "Silver Joke" before, but the joke's on me.
This was a lively and youthful Cab, without the complexity of the
preceding wines, but solid dark berry fruit and a little mocha note.
Not fading at all. B+

1986 Ch. d'Yquem
Lovely bottle of Sauternes, tropical fruit and apricots Complex and
dense, excellent length, fresh. A-

Even with tougher than normal grading, I still ended up with over half
the wines at least partially As, and two solid As, something I've
never done before in memory. Very grateful to our host for his
generosity.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
*

On Feb 26, 3:32�pm, DaleW > wrote:
> Last night Andy hosted SOBER. Various events with this group have been
> astounding, but last night the bar was raised (actually, the bar
> disappeared into the sky). Mark and I splurged to share a car service,
> I was really thrilled not to be spitting. Just an extraordinary
> lineup.
>
> (I graded tougher than usual due to general high level)
>
> With some canapes (trout I think) , the 1985 Krug. I generally say
> that I like the lighter styled house a la Taittinger more than the
> bigger, cereally, full styles like Krug. Yet this was my favorite Krug
> I remember- fullbodied, but amazingly fresh and sprightly. Great zippy
> acids, lots of yeasty/biscuity notes, chalky minerals on the finish.
> A-
>
> At table,we started with a pair of whites, accompanied by a version of
> an Alsace tarte, along with endive and a little blue cheese. As usual
> wines were double blind, this night we all mostly flailed (in my case
> partly because I had seldom had wines of this age/quality)
>
> White #1
> Darker color, nose of honey and flowers, but on the palate it comes
> across as heavy and low-acid, alcoholic/hot, very mature. I'm thinking
> it's 20+ years old. 2003 Chapoutier "Le Meal" Eermitage blanc C+
> �
> White #2
> lighter, brighter (someone guessed Coche, white Burg seemed a
> reasonable guess for me), fresh apple fruit with spice and an exotic
> bent. �2004 �Chapoutier "Le Meal" Eermitage blanc B+/A-
>
> Hard to believe they were same wine, one vintage apart
>
> On to the first red flight (with duck confit and potato)
>
> Red #1
> Just an accent of barnyard, excellent depth and concentration, lots of
> complexity, but fruit is fairly young. I'm really loving this,
> guessing maybe 1978, but it's older. 1962 Rousseau Chambertin A-
>
> Red #2
> This has a madierized edge on the nose, though it's not apparent on
> palate, and fades a bit even on nose. Earth, forest floor, just a hint
> of caramel. �1962 Rousseau Chambertin Clos de Beze. B
>
> I think consensus was �that this was more a bottle issue than any
> evidence the CdB was well behind the straight Chambertin.
>
> I thought the next flight (especially number 3) was well-aged Merlot,
> something like a '64 Right Banker. Others went for old California,
> eventually someone decided on Rhone (correctly)
>
> Red #3
> Plummy ripe �red fruit, still some grip, cedar and leather. I like a
> lot.
> 1961 Jaboulet "Les Jumelles" Cote Rotie �B+/A-
> �
> Red �#4
> Mature red fruit, not quite as lively as its flightmate, a bit
> shorter. Andy says he's had much better bottles of the same, but this
> isn't a slouch. 1961 Jaboulet-Isnard Hermitage �B/B+
> �
> Next flight was , um, memorable
>
> Red #5
> A bit more restrained than flightmate, solid dark fruit, lead pencil,
> resolved tannins, fairly fresh fruit, but nice tertiary notes of
> hummus and leather. �1959 Lafite Rothschild A-
>
> Red #6
> Big rich fruit, mint �and eucalyptus, guesses centered around CA,
> though I though maybe herbier Right Bank �Bordeaux (something like '82
> Figeac). Ripe and concentrated, extraordinary length, aromas of earth,
> vanilla, and cigarbox. 1959 Mouton Rothschild A
> �
> OK, there were two wine I'll probably never taste again!
>
> With the cheese course, a couple more reds made the rounds (unblind)
>
> 1974 Heitz Martha's Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon
> Chosen because apparently it's been used to counterfeit the '59 Mouton
> before. Definite similarities- the same slight sense of exoticism,
> notes of herbs and spice, similar ripeness. There's sandalwood and
> coffee, big young ripe fruit, in the end different from the Mouton,
> but also a great wine. A
>
> 1982 Silver Oak Cabernet Sauvignon (Alexander Valley)
> OK, I've used the phrase "Silver Joke" before, but the joke's on me.
> This was a lively and youthful Cab, without the complexity of the
> preceding wines, but solid dark berry fruit and a little mocha note.
> Not fading at all. B+
>
> 1986 Ch. d'Yquem
> Lovely bottle of Sauternes, tropical fruit and apricots Complex and
> dense, excellent length, fresh. A-
>
> Even with tougher than normal grading, I still ended up with over half
> the wines at least partially As, and two solid As, something I've
> never done before in memory. Very grateful to our host for his
> generosity.
>
> Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
> �

I've had a lot of oxidation problems with Chapoutier "Le Meal" of
various vintages from 1999 to present.

DaleW wrote:
> Last night Andy hosted SOBER. Various events with this group have been
> astounding, but last night the bar was raised (actually, the bar
> disappeared into the sky). Mark and I splurged to share a car service,
> I was really thrilled not to be spitting. Just an extraordinary
> lineup.
>

Wow! You lucky dog, you!

> Red #4
> Mature red fruit, not quite as lively as its flightmate, a bit
> shorter. Andy says he's had much better bottles of the same, but this
> isn't a slouch. 1961 Jaboulet-Isnard Hermitage B/B+

What is this producer? An offshoot of the Jaboulet negoce operation, or
something different?

>
> Next flight was , um, memorable
>
> Red #5
> A bit more restrained than flightmate, solid dark fruit, lead pencil,
> resolved tannins, fairly fresh fruit, but nice tertiary notes of
> hummus and leather. 1959 Lafite Rothschild A-
>
> Red #6
> Big rich fruit, mint and eucalyptus, guesses centered around CA,
> though I though maybe herbier Right Bank Bordeaux (something like '82
> Figeac). Ripe and concentrated, extraordinary length, aromas of earth,
> vanilla, and cigarbox. 1959 Mouton Rothschild A

Gaaah! Two birthyear wines for me.
>
> OK, there were two wine I'll probably never taste again!

That's better than I'll be able to say

>
> With the cheese course, a couple more reds made the rounds (unblind)
>
> 1974 Heitz Martha's Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon
> Chosen because apparently it's been used to counterfeit the '59 Mouton
> before. Definite similarities- the same slight sense of exoticism,
> notes of herbs and spice, similar ripeness. There's sandalwood and
> coffee, big young ripe fruit, in the end different from the Mouton,
> but also a great wine. A

And here you have one of my "life wines." Granted, I had it in its
youth (ca. '83), but it still ranks as one of the high points of my wine
experience. Glad to hear that it's still doing well.

I would presume that most of those wines came from Andy's cellar, as I
can't imagine that you could get many of those on the open market for
anything like a reasonable price.
What a great tasting, Dale!

Enviously yours,
Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

DaleW wrote:
> Last night Andy hosted SOBER. Various events with this group have been
> astounding, but last night the bar was raised (actually, the bar
> disappeared into the sky). Mark and I splurged to share a car service,
> I was really thrilled not to be spitting. Just an extraordinary
> lineup.
>
[]

That is really outstanding. Fantastic, glad you didn't have to spit.
Thanks for sharing, I enjoyed vicariously...

-E

On Feb 26, 4:52*pm, wrote:
> On Feb 26, 3:32 pm, DaleW > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Last night Andy hosted SOBER. Various events with this group have been
> > astounding, but last night the bar was raised (actually, the bar
> > disappeared into the sky). Mark and I splurged to share a car service,
> > I was really thrilled not to be spitting. Just an extraordinary
> > lineup.
>
> > (I graded tougher than usual due to general high level)
>
> > With some canapes (trout I think) , the 1985 Krug. I generally say
> > that I like the lighter styled house a la Taittinger more than the
> > bigger, cereally, full styles like Krug. Yet this was my favorite Krug
> > I remember- fullbodied, but amazingly fresh and sprightly. Great zippy
> > acids, lots of yeasty/biscuity notes, chalky minerals on the finish.
> > A-
>
> > At table,we started with a pair of whites, accompanied by a version of
> > an Alsace tarte, along with endive and a little blue cheese. As usual
> > wines were double blind, this night we all mostly flailed (in my case
> > partly because I had seldom had wines of this age/quality)
>
> > White #1
> > Darker color, nose of honey and flowers, but on the palate it comes
> > across as heavy and low-acid, alcoholic/hot, very mature. I'm thinking
> > it's 20+ years old. 2003 Chapoutier "Le Meal" Eermitage blanc C+
> >
> > White #2
> > lighter, brighter (someone guessed Coche, white Burg seemed a
> > reasonable guess for me), fresh apple fruit with spice and an exotic
> > bent. 2004 Chapoutier "Le Meal" Eermitage blanc B+/A-
>
> > Hard to believe they were same wine, one vintage apart
>
> > On to the first red flight (with duck confit and potato)
>
> > Red #1
> > Just an accent of barnyard, excellent depth and concentration, lots of
> > complexity, but fruit is fairly young. I'm really loving this,
> > guessing maybe 1978, but it's older. 1962 Rousseau Chambertin A-
>
> > Red #2
> > This has a madierized edge on the nose, though it's not apparent on
> > palate, and fades a bit even on nose. Earth, forest floor, just a hint
> > of caramel. 1962 Rousseau Chambertin Clos de Beze. B
>
> > I think consensus was that this was more a bottle issue than any
> > evidence the CdB was well behind the straight Chambertin.
>
> > I thought the next flight (especially number 3) was well-aged Merlot,
> > something like a '64 Right Banker. Others went for old California,
> > eventually someone decided on Rhone (correctly)
>
> > Red #3
> > Plummy ripe red fruit, still some grip, cedar and leather. I like a
> > lot.
> > 1961 Jaboulet "Les Jumelles" Cote Rotie B+/A-
> >
> > Red #4
> > Mature red fruit, not quite as lively as its flightmate, a bit
> > shorter. Andy says he's had much better bottles of the same, but this
> > isn't a slouch. 1961 Jaboulet-Isnard Hermitage B/B+
> >
> > Next flight was , um, memorable
>
> > Red #5
> > A bit more restrained than flightmate, solid dark fruit, lead pencil,
> > resolved tannins, fairly fresh fruit, but nice tertiary notes of
> > hummus and leather. 1959 Lafite Rothschild A-
>
> > Red #6
> > Big rich fruit, mint and eucalyptus, guesses centered around CA,
> > though I though maybe herbier Right Bank Bordeaux (something like '82
> > Figeac). Ripe and concentrated, extraordinary length, aromas of earth,
> > vanilla, and cigarbox. 1959 Mouton Rothschild A
> >
> > OK, there were two wine I'll probably never taste again!
>
> > With the cheese course, a couple more reds made the rounds (unblind)
>
> > 1974 Heitz Martha's Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon
> > Chosen because apparently it's been used to counterfeit the '59 Mouton
> > before. Definite similarities- the same slight sense of exoticism,
> > notes of herbs and spice, similar ripeness. There's sandalwood and
> > coffee, big young ripe fruit, in the end different from the Mouton,
> > but also a great wine. A
>
> > 1982 Silver Oak Cabernet Sauvignon (Alexander Valley)
> > OK, I've used the phrase "Silver Joke" before, but the joke's on me.
> > This was a lively and youthful Cab, without the complexity of the
> > preceding wines, but solid dark berry fruit and a little mocha note.
> > Not fading at all. B+
>
> > 1986 Ch. d'Yquem
> > Lovely bottle of Sauternes, tropical fruit and apricots Complex and
> > dense, excellent length, fresh. A-
>
> > Even with tougher than normal grading, I still ended up with over half
> > the wines at least partially As, and two solid As, something I've
> > never done before in memory. Very grateful to our host for his
> > generosity.
>
> > Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> > wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> > drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> > promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
> >
>
> I've had a lot of oxidation problems with Chapoutier "Le Meal" *of
> various vintages from 1999 to present.

Beyond the ox/age issues this was just too low acid for me. But I
really liked the '04, and that's coming from a non-fan of Rhone whites

On Feb 26, 4:53*pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> DaleW wrote:
> > Last night Andy hosted SOBER. Various events with this group have been
> > astounding, but last night the bar was raised (actually, the bar
> > disappeared into the sky). Mark and I splurged to share a car service,
> > I was really thrilled not to be spitting. Just an extraordinary
> > lineup.
>
> Wow! *You lucky dog, you!
>
> > Red *#4
> > Mature red fruit, not quite as lively as its flightmate, a bit
> > shorter. Andy says he's had much better bottles of the same, but this
> > isn't a slouch. 1961 Jaboulet-Isnard Hermitage *B/B+
>
> What is this producer? *An offshoot of the Jaboulet negoce operation, or
> something different?
>
>
>
> > Next flight was , um, memorable
>
> > Red #5
> > A bit more restrained than flightmate, solid dark fruit, lead pencil,
> > resolved tannins, fairly fresh fruit, but nice tertiary notes of
> > hummus and leather. *1959 Lafite Rothschild A-
>
> > Red #6
> > Big rich fruit, mint *and eucalyptus, guesses centered around CA,
> > though I though maybe herbier Right Bank *Bordeaux (something like '82
> > Figeac). Ripe and concentrated, extraordinary length, aromas of earth,
> > vanilla, and cigarbox. 1959 Mouton Rothschild A
>
> Gaaah! *Two birthyear wines for me.
>
>
>
> > OK, there were two wine I'll probably never taste again!
>
> That's better than I'll be able to say
>
>
>
> > With the cheese course, a couple more reds made the rounds (unblind)
>
> > 1974 Heitz Martha's Vineyard Cabernet Sauvignon
> > Chosen because apparently it's been used to counterfeit the '59 Mouton
> > before. Definite similarities- the same slight sense of exoticism,
> > notes of herbs and spice, similar ripeness. There's sandalwood and
> > coffee, big young ripe fruit, in the end different from the Mouton,
> > but also a great wine. A
>
> And here you have one of my "life wines." *Granted, I had it in its
> youth (ca. '83), but it still ranks as one of the high points of my wine
> experience. *Glad to hear that it's still doing well.
>
> I would presume that most of those wines came from Andy's cellar, as I
> can't imagine that you could get many of those on the open market for
> anything like a reasonable price.
> What a great tasting, Dale!
>
> Enviously yours,
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: *http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Jaboulet Isnard was apparently the second label of their negociant
operation. Andy says there were always rumors the wines were
identical, just label differences due to exclusitivity arrangements.
Some say the J-Isnard is same as the La Chapelle, but he thinks while
very very good, not the same. I for one will never know, this was
already drinking well above my level.
Yes, all from his cellar.

">> Last night Andy hosted SOBER. Various events with this group have been
>> astounding, but last night the bar was raised (actually, the bar
>> disappeared into the sky). Mark and I splurged to share a car service,
>> I was really thrilled not to be spitting. Just an extraordinary
>> lineup.


A fantastic line up, great wines and no driving.

It goes to show that we were fortunate to form our wine club in 1979, we
still have many goodies to come.

John T

Hi Dale,

Sigh....

On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:45:31 -0800 (PST), DaleW >
wrote:


>> > Next flight was , um, memorable
>>
>> > Red #5
>> > A bit more restrained than flightmate, solid dark fruit, lead pencil,
>> > resolved tannins, fairly fresh fruit, but nice tertiary notes of
>> > hummus and leather. 1959 Lafite Rothschild A-
>>
>> > Red #6
>> > Big rich fruit, mint and eucalyptus, guesses centered around CA,
>> > though I though maybe herbier Right Bank Bordeaux (something like '82
>> > Figeac). Ripe and concentrated, extraordinary length, aromas of earth,
>> > vanilla, and cigarbox. 1959 Mouton Rothschild A

I tasted these two against each other back in the 80s at a "rarest and
finest" auction at Sotheby's. (actually they also had all the 1st and
2nd growths 1961 as well). I agree 100% with your comparison of the
two. For me, the Mouton-Rothschild '59 is the best red I've ever
tasted, and the older I get, the less likely it is that I'll ever
taste its like again.

However - (I did say it was a rarEST tasting) I don't think this was
the high point of the pre-auction tasting. That has to go to two 18th
Century vintages of Constantia.

What's more, entry to the tasting was by catalogue, and that cost me a
fiver.

After I'd finished my tasting of all the quite extra-ordinary wines
there, I went back to the Mouton, poured myself a glass, found a chair
and sat down and drank it. It's the first (and last) time I've ever
been so self indulgent.

Sigh, as I said.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

On Feb 27, 2:15*pm, IanH > wrote:
.. It's the first (and last) time I've ever
> been *so self indulgent.


Good thing I am not a skeptic, or I might be moved to doubt that
statement.... ;-)

On Feb 27, 4:15*pm, IanH > wrote:
> Hi Dale,
>
> Sigh....
>
> On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:45:31 -0800 (PST), DaleW >
> wrote:
>
> >> > Next flight was , um, memorable
>
> >> > Red #5
> >> > A bit more restrained than flightmate, solid dark fruit, lead pencil,
> >> > resolved tannins, fairly fresh fruit, but nice tertiary notes of
> >> > hummus and leather. 1959 Lafite Rothschild A-
>
> >> > Red #6
> >> > Big rich fruit, mint and eucalyptus, guesses centered around CA,
> >> > though I though maybe herbier Right Bank Bordeaux (something like '82
> >> > Figeac). Ripe and concentrated, extraordinary length, aromas of earth,
> >> > vanilla, and cigarbox. 1959 Mouton Rothschild A
>
> I tasted these two against each other back in the 80s at a "rarest and
> finest" auction at Sotheby's. (actually they also had all the 1st and
> 2nd growths 1961 as well). I agree 100% with your comparison of the
> two. For me, the Mouton-Rothschild '59 is the best red I've ever
> tasted, and the older I get, the less likely it is that I'll ever
> taste its like again.

I do not have the 59 Mouton, but I do have a single bottle of the 45
that appears to be in good condition so far as one can tell without
opening the bottle.. The 45 has the reputation of being the best
Mouton ever that is still in top form( unless perhaps a bottle from a
cold castle cellar from the late 1800s).

> However - (I did say it was a rarEST tasting) I don't think this was
> the high point of the pre-auction tasting. That has to go to two 18th
> Century vintages of Constantia.

I have one bottle of Constantia(either 1791 or 1809) according to a
brown auction neck tag. Another neck tag labeled Sotheby's gives a
sale date of 26-9-79 and lot 214/(2 or z). The small bottle, likely
about the size of a modern half-bottle, of course has no label other
than one applied on shipment to the US by Clink Vaults in the UK to
Julienne Import Co. in Chicago

A single bottle of this wine, lot 2518 came up for auction at the
Chicago Wine Co, Fine Wine Auction 33, March 1986. The minimum bid was
US$ 500, although I had to pay considerably more than that to win.
The auction catalog described the wine description as a quote, but did
not give the source of the quote. It could be the quote from the
Sotheby's auction mentioned, but that is just a guess. However it is
unlikely a US quote because it uses the spellings "colour" and
"flavours". I give the quote below.

"Colour, dark bronze, shading to iodine at edge. Very powerful scent
of raisins, filling the room and remaining very much alive for a long
time. Exceptionally well preserved, a complex of flavours, akin to
raisin like taste of Tokay Essence with the fullness of Malmsey, but
certainly this was never a fortified wine. The wines of Constantia
were rightly famed in the eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries
and at this time commanded very high prices. Bottles could be found in
the cellars of most royal households of Europe and Russia, Napoleon's
last days were passed pleasantly in drinking the same wine. The white
wine was made at Klein Constantia, from over-ripe grapes, allowed to
bake in the hot Cape sun. The wine was of exceptional sweetness and
the excessive sugar preserved the wine. The sea voyage to Europe would
have produced the same effect as the East Indies run did for Madeira
before the days of the Estufa system"

If you have kept Sotheby's catalogs mentioning Constantia, it would be
interesting to know if the above quote is in any of them. Does the
description remind you of the Constantia you tasted?

There likely are very few good bottles of classic Constantia still
left in the world, and it could now take a long time to find some at
any price. It likely will come up at auction mainly when an owner dies
or has severe financial difficulties.

> What's more, entry to the tasting was by catalogue, and that cost me a
> fiver.
>
> After I'd finished my tasting of all the quite extra-ordinary wines
> there, I went back to the Mouton, poured myself a glass, found a chair
> and sat down and drank it. It's the first (and last) time I've ever
> been *so self indulgent.
>
> Sigh, as I said.
> --
> All the best
> Fatty from Forges

Hi,

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 22:53:35 -0800 (PST), cwdjrxyz
> wrote:

> I have one bottle of Constantia(either 1791 or 1809) according to a
>brown auction neck tag. Another neck tag labeled Sotheby's gives a
>sale date of 26-9-79 and lot 214/(2 or z).

Yup, that's the tasting, I think - I've got a "finest and rarest"
catalogue and thought that was the it - to the extent that I looked in
it tonight for some friends, but it's from 2000 whileI'm alsmost 100%
certain that the tasting I went to was in the early '80s.

IIRCthe wine came from Glamys castle - certainly a legendary cellar
cellar in a famous castle of a pretty prestigious nobleman anyway. To
be honest I'm embarrassed and cross, because I was sure I'd kept that
catalogue, though I can't lay my hands on it.


> It could be the quote from the Sotheby's auction mentioned, but that is just a guess. However it is
>unlikely a US quote because it uses the spellings "colour" and "flavours". I give the quote below.

>"Colour,
[snip]
> The white wine was made at Klein Constantia, from over-ripe grapes, allowed to
>bake in the hot Cape sun. The wine was of exceptional sweetness and
>the excessive sugar preserved the wine. The sea voyage to Europe would
>have produced the same effect as the East Indies run did for Madeira
>before the days of the Estufa system"

That certainly rings a bell for me, though without the catalogue I
can't be sure.

> Does the description remind you of the Constantia you tasted?
Not 100%, to be honest. The wines I tasted were very heavily
sedimented and although they were definitely still alive, they were
both VERY old gentlemen. I don't remember the penetrating scent, but I
do remember the very marked muscat flavour. I went to a tutored
tasting of Australian wines run by Jancis Robinson shortly afterwards,
and on tasting one of the wine - Browns Muscat, I think, I turned to
my companions excitedly and said "you know, this REALLY reminds me of
the Constantia." Well, that's got to be the ULTIMATE pseud remark, and
so when she asked for comments, they sat on my hands to prevent me
making one. And then she said "The story goes that the grapes for this
wine were brought over from the legendary Constantia vineyards" etc
Was I gutted!!

So there are some aspects of those notes that ring a bell for me,
certainly.

It's lateand we have had a guests' dinner, so I'm a little tired now,
but I'll turn the house upside down looking for that catalogue
tomorrow. I'll be furious if I can't find it, or if I kept the wrong
one by mistake.

--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

On Feb 28, 1:53*am, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
> I do not have the 59 Mouton, but I do have a single bottle of the 45
> that appears to be in good condition so far as one can tell without
> opening the bottle.. The 45 has the reputation of being the best
> Mouton ever that is still in top form( unless perhaps a bottle from a
> cold castle cellar from the late 1800s).
>

In a sign that the auction market is slipping, high bid on a case of
the 1945 Mouton Friday was $110,000 (didn't meet reserve).
I hope yours is sound when you open!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On Mar 1, 1:47*pm, DaleW > wrote:
> On Feb 28, 1:53*am, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
>
> > I do not have the 59 Mouton, but I do have a single bottle of the 45
> > that appears to be in good condition so far as one can tell without
> > opening the bottle.. The 45 has the reputation of being the best
> > Mouton ever that is still in top form( unless perhaps a bottle from a
> > cold castle cellar from the late 1800s).
>
> In a sign that the auction market is slipping, high bid on *a case of
> the 1945 Mouton Friday was $110,000 (didn't meet reserve).
> I hope yours is sound when you open!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was not old enough to be buying wines on release of the 45s, I
bought the 45 Mouton many years ago, and it cost roughy US$200 back
then because so many critics, pre-Parker, raved about it..That was a
very high price then, and I often wished I had bought more. I do have
2 bottles of the 61, 1 of 66, and quite a few bottles of more recent
vintages.

I knew Mouton 45 had gone into orbit concerning price even many years
ago. People who bought it young and stored it properly will make a
killing, even if they have to sell now and even if the price drops
very much more. Economic problems also have hit Asia and Russia, so
this likely will reduce the number of potential buyers willing to pay
nearly any price for a top, or top rated, wine. Many others who bought
by the case may now buy by the bottle. Some people who bought top
rated wine from fairly recent vintages with the intention of selling
it at a profit may have to delay selling for several years or take a
large loss.