Notes from a meat tasting dinner. We were having both New York strip
and ribeye steaks, one pair local with 36 days aging and one from
Flannery’s in the US aged 52 days. A beef tasting! FWIW, the
American beef was smoother in texture an more homogeneous, showing fat
marbling throughout, while the Canadian beef had a few more voids in
the stakes, more localization of the fat, and was generally tastier.

2006 Meyer Family Vineyards Tribute Series Chardonnay (Emily Carr) – a
very well balanced chard with oak well in proportion to fruit. Perhaps
the best BC chard yet.

2000 Clos de l’Oratoire CNduP – smooth and ready to go, nice dark
fruit and spice in the nose, pleasant and with reasonable length, but
not a cellar candidate.

1997 Ch. St. Cosme Gigondas – I wanted to pull a cork on this one
because we’d had the 1998 at the Friday lunch and enjoyed it very
much. This was a clone of the 1998, with dark colour, ravishing Rhone
nose, not too hat, with good fruit and good acidity.

1995 Dom. Santa Duc Haut Garrigues – more obviously Grenache, and with
a leathery less floral nose, this one was also tasty with good length,
but on this night the St. Cosme had the sweeter fruit and was the more
attractive (if less classic) wine to the majority.

1996 Brero Poderi Roset Barolo – impressive showing with floral nose
with tar and someone suggested a bit of almond paste, still lots of
tannin, but very good fruit. No rush on this attractive Barolo.

1999 Inama Badisismo – this cabernet from Veneto was a more
international wine that would be very hard to nail in a blind tasting.
From a well known Soave producer, the wine had a toasty new world sort
of nose, big cab in the mouth and gave no pointers to being Italian –
an excellent ringer for that next blind cabernet tasting!

1983 Gould Campbell Port – a great way to finish off, with a Port that
ad excellent colour (considerably darker than the 1991 Noval I’d had
the day before). Not too hot, with very good length. I know that
Parker isn’t the go-to guy on Ports, but I was looking up the Inama
anyway to see if there was anything about vinification for that wine,
so decided to look at the Port as well. His comment on the 83 is “My
experience with this house is limited.… The 1983 is rich, full-bodied,
well-colored, and complex.” He then gives it a miserly 82 points. I
figured WTF?...until I looked at the 1980 note beside it. “My
experience with this house is limited.….. The 1980 is rich, full-
bodied, well-colored, and complex.” Uh…rubber stamp reviews, or
inattentive proof-reading? I’d suspect the latter.

Bill S. wrote:

Interesting notes about the beef, Bill. In my experience, the
attraction of dry-aged beef is a more gamey note to the taste. Was this
at all in evidence?

>
> 1997 Ch. St. Cosme Gigondas – I wanted to pull a cork on this one
> because we’d had the 1998 at the Friday lunch and enjoyed it very
> much. This was a clone of the 1998, with dark colour, ravishing Rhone
> nose, not too hat, with good fruit and good acidity.

I am actually quite surprised that this wine showed as well as it did.
'97 was not an easy year in the S. Rhone, mostly producing fairly weak
and dilute wines. For this wine to have shone so well at age 11 is a
testament to the winery's skill.

Nice notes!
Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Nov 17, 7:35*am, Mark Lipton > wrote:
>
> I am actually quite surprised that this wine showed as well as it did.
> '97 was not an easy year in the S. Rhone, mostly producing fairly weak
> and dilute wines. *For this wine to have shone so well at age 11 is a
> testament to the winery's skill.

It was a good vintage selectively, Mark. The St. Cosme is a good one
and should hold up another 5 years or so.

I have a couple of cases of this to cover me over that time period.

The 1998 will last even longer and I plan to start in on it in 2-3
years.

On Nov 17, 8:57*am, "Bill S." > wrote:
> Notes from a meat tasting dinner. *We were having both New York strip
> and ribeye steaks, one pair local with 36 days aging and one from
> Flannery’s in the US aged 52 days. *A beef tasting! *FWIW, the
> American beef was smoother in texture an more homogeneous, showing fat
> marbling throughout, while the Canadian beef had a few more voids in
> the stakes, more localization of the fat, and was generally tastier.

American beef is graded into several levels with USDA Prime being the
top level. It is well marbled with fat throughout. Next there is the
trim. The best steaks are completely trimmed of external fat as the
marbled interior fat in top prime grade is enough to internally baste
the steak and make it tender. Then there is the type of aging used.
Modern wet aging completely wraps the meat in plastic for aging. This
keeps water loss to a minimum and results in a milder taste. Nealy all
beef, except sometimes the top grades, is wet aged today. A few
companies still make the traditional dry aged beef, which is not
wrapped during aging. There is considerable loss in weight because of
water loss and because the outer part of the beef must be trimmed
more. However the beef has much more flavor and is very tender when
properly dry aged. Aging time for the best is usually about 4 to 6
weeks depending on the cut of meat. A few companies also sell Wagyu
beef from this Japanese breed now being bred in the US as well as some
other countries. It often sells for about 2 to 3 times the price of
the more usual types of beef.

For traditional dry aged beef, the top company that will ship all over
the US is likely Lobels' of NYC. See www.lobels.com . They sell only
high end USDA prime beef, sell only dry aged beef, and can provide
Wagyu beef. They are one of the most expensive butchers around, since
they will deal only with the very top qualities of beef and other
meats. Allen Brothers at www.allenbrothers.com is another good
source, especially for wet aged beef. They have very high quality wet
aged steaks if you select the fully trimmed and USDA Prime grade.
Unfortunately, unlike Lobels, they sell some lower grade USDA Choice
and meat that is not completely trimmed. They also have Wagu.

Of course there are other local good butchers scattered around the
company, most of which do not ship to all of the states. I don't know
if laws allow Lobels' or Allen Brothers to ship to Canada. Such laws
tend to be very strict, vary from country to country, and often can
change.

On Nov 17, 1:33*pm, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
> On Nov 17, 8:57*am, "Bill S." > wrote:
>
> > Notes from a meat tasting dinner. *We were having both New York strip
> > and ribeye steaks, one pair local with 36 days aging and one from
> > Flannery’s in the US aged 52 days. *A beef tasting! *FWIW, the
> > American beef was smoother in texture an more homogeneous, showing fat
> > marbling throughout, while the Canadian beef had a few more voids in
> > the stakes, more localization of the fat, and was generally tastier.
>
> American beef is graded into several levels with USDA Prime being the
> top level. It is well marbled with fat throughout. Next there is the
> trim. The best steaks are completely trimmed of external fat as the
> marbled interior fat in top prime grade is enough to internally baste
> the steak and make it tender. Then there is the type of aging used.
> Modern wet aging completely wraps the meat in plastic for aging. This
> keeps water loss to a minimum and results in a milder taste. Nealy all
> beef, except sometimes the top grades, is wet aged today. A few
> companies still make the traditional dry aged beef, which is not
> wrapped during aging. There is considerable loss in weight because of
> water loss and because the outer part of the beef must be trimmed
> more. However the beef has much more flavor and is very tender when
> properly dry aged. Aging time for the best is usually about 4 to 6
> weeks depending on the cut of meat. A few companies also sell Wagyu
> beef from this Japanese breed now being bred in the US as well as some
> other countries. It often sells for about 2 to 3 times the price of
> the more usual types of beef.
>
> For traditional dry aged beef, the top company that will ship all over
> the US is likely Lobels' of NYC. Seewww.lobels.com. They sell only
> high end USDA prime beef, sell only dry aged beef, and can provide
> Wagyu beef. They are one of the most expensive butchers around, since
> they will deal only with the very top qualities of beef and other
> meats. Allen Brothers atwww.allenbrothers.com*is another good
> source, especially for wet aged beef. They have very high quality wet
> aged steaks if you select the fully trimmed *and USDA Prime grade.
> Unfortunately, unlike Lobels, they sell some lower grade USDA Choice
> and meat that is not completely trimmed. They also have Wagu.
>
> Of course there are other local good butchers scattered around the
> company, most of which do not ship to all of the states. I don't know
> if laws allow Lobels' or Allen Brothers to ship to Canada. Such laws
> tend to be very strict, vary from country to country, and often can
> change.

I generally love the Flannery steaks (http://
www.bryansfinefoods.com/) , although I've never had the "Private
Reserve" (not on website, you have to talk to Bryan). A variety of
people have done head to head tests among Lobels, Bryan Flannery,
Peter Lugers mail order branch, Allens, Niman Ranch, a couple others,
Pretty much every one I've seen has had the Lobels, Bryans, and Peter
Lugers as top 3, though order varies. That said, Allen Brothers makes
fine steaks.

The last time I picked up at Lobels (not mailorder), the strips were
$46/lb. And that was before recent beef price increases. I can save a
fair amount of money at Byrans even including the overnight. Sat we
were discussing ordering a sampling - 1,5 inch and 2 inch (so we can
do one blue/rare and one med rare) of his NY Strip, KC Strip, bone in
Rib, and filets for 10 of us.

On Nov 17, 1:20*pm, DaleW > wrote:
> On Nov 17, 1:33*pm, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Nov 17, 8:57*am, "Bill S." > wrote:
>
> > > Notes from a meat tasting dinner. *We were having both New York strip
> > > and ribeye steaks, one pair local with 36 days aging and one from
> > > Flannery’s in the US aged 52 days. *A beef tasting! *FWIW, the
> > > American beef was smoother in texture an more homogeneous, showing fat
> > > marbling throughout, while the Canadian beef had a few more voids in
> > > the stakes, more localization of the fat, and was generally tastier.
>
> > American beef is graded into several levels with USDA Prime being the
> > top level. It is well marbled with fat throughout. Next there is the
> > trim. The best steaks are completely trimmed of external fat as the
> > marbled interior fat in top prime grade is enough to internally baste
> > the steak and make it tender. Then there is the type of aging used.
> > Modern wet aging completely wraps the meat in plastic for aging. This
> > keeps water loss to a minimum and results in a milder taste. Nealy all
> > beef, except sometimes the top grades, is wet aged today. A few
> > companies still make the traditional dry aged beef, which is not
> > wrapped during aging. There is considerable loss in weight because of
> > water loss and because the outer part of the beef must be trimmed
> > more. However the beef has much more flavor and is very tender when
> > properly dry aged. Aging time for the best is usually about 4 to 6
> > weeks depending on the cut of meat. A few companies also sell Wagyu
> > beef from this Japanese breed now being bred in the US as well as some
> > other countries. It often sells for about 2 to 3 times the price of
> > the more usual types of beef.
>
> > For traditional dry aged beef, the top company that will ship all over
> > the US is likely Lobels' of NYC. Seewww.lobels.com. They sell only
> > high end USDA prime beef, sell only dry aged beef, and can provide
> > Wagyu beef. They are one of the most expensive butchers around, since
> > they will deal only with the very top qualities of beef and other
> > meats. Allen Brothers atwww.allenbrothers.com*is another good
> > source, especially for wet aged beef. They have very high quality wet
> > aged steaks if you select the fully trimmed *and USDA Prime grade.
> > Unfortunately, unlike Lobels, they sell some lower grade USDA Choice
> > and meat that is not completely trimmed. They also have Wagu.
>
> > Of course there are other local good butchers scattered around the
> > company, most of which do not ship to all of the states. I don't know
> > if laws allow Lobels' or Allen Brothers to ship to Canada. Such laws
> > tend to be very strict, vary from country to country, and often can
> > change.
>
> I generally love the Flannery steaks (http://www.bryansfinefoods.com/) , although I've never had the "Private
> Reserve" *(not on website, you have to talk to Bryan). *A variety of
> people have done head to head tests among Lobels, Bryan Flannery,
> Peter Lugers mail order branch, Allens, Niman Ranch, a couple others,
> Pretty much every one I've seen has had the Lobels, Bryans, and Peter
> Lugers as top 3, though order varies. That said, Allen Brothers makes
> fine steaks.
>
> The last time I picked up at Lobels (not mailorder), the strips were
> $46/lb. And that was before recent beef price increases. I can save a
> fair amount of money at Byrans even including the overnight. Sat we
> were discussing ordering a sampling - 1,5 inch and 2 inch (so we can
> do one blue/rare and one med rare) of his NY Strip, KC Strip, bone in
> Rib, and filets for 10 of us.

Of course meat, especially beef, can vary from animal to animal and
one may get somewhat different quality from different purchases from
the same company. Also any given company may have certain meats, such
a veal, that are better or worse than their steaks. I suspect Peter
Luger has, on the average, as good steaks as Lobels'. However Lobels'
has a wide variety of different meats, and all I have tried have been
at or near the top. They also have cuts that can be difficult to find.
For example, tournedos cut from the small end of the fillet are
required for many classic French dishes such as Tournedos Rossini.
Lobels' sells tournedos of the proper size, about 4 oz.

A recent order I made from Lobels' included tournedos, veal
scaloppine, and Italian style sausage made from chicken. In the past
I have ordered their rack of lamb, strip steaks etc. Everything has
been of top quality. Apparently Lobels' does not ship seafood,
desserts, etc, but Allen Bros. does. I can buy Maine lobsters live
locally, and a local Oriental grocery sometimes has rather nasty
tempered live crabs. I do not eat much fish, but I like some shellfish
such as lobster, crab, and oysters.

I went to the website you gave for Bryan's, but it turned me off
because it did not show what they had and prices and only wanted you
to send them your email address. They need a decent website with good
illustrations for all products sold, prices, and secure online
ordering with payment via popular credit/debit card. Why make a
possible new customer jump through hoops to be able to buy from them?

On Nov 17, 4:27*pm, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
>
> Of course meat, especially beef, can vary from animal to animal and
> one may get somewhat different quality from different purchases from
> the same company.

True of many artisanal products. The great thing is that even the
varied ranges of food from Bryans, Lobels, Artisanal Cheese,
D'Artagnan, Murray's Cheese, etc are always in my preferable to those
places that guarantee uniformity through industrialization,.
>
> I went to the website you gave for Bryan's, but it turned me off
> because it did not show what they had and prices and only wanted *you
> to send them your email address. They need a decent website with good
> illustrations for all *products sold, prices, and secure online
> ordering with payment via popular credit/debit card. Why make a
> possible new customer jump through hoops to be able to buy from them?

I think if you go to the website, where it says enter your email it
notes "* this field is optional, not required ", just click enter and
I think you go right in. Shows you the prices on various steaks (they
also do lamb and I think some seafood, but I haven't ordered).
For what's it is worth, I have been on Bryan's list for about 2 years,
I think I've gotten 3 emails that weren't directly order related.

On Nov 17, 4:28*pm, DaleW > wrote:
> On Nov 17, 4:27*pm, cwdjrxyz > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Of course meat, especially beef, can vary from animal to animal and
> > one may get somewhat different quality from different purchases from
> > the same company.
>
> True of many artisanal products. The great thing is that even the
> varied ranges of food from Bryans, Lobels, Artisanal Cheese,
> D'Artagnan, Murray's Cheese, etc are always in my preferable to those
> places that guarantee uniformity through industrialization,.
>
>
>
> > I went to the website you gave for Bryan's, but it turned me off
> > because it did not show what they had and prices and only wanted *you
> > to send them your email address. They need a decent website with good
> > illustrations for all *products sold, prices, and secure online
> > ordering with payment via popular credit/debit card. Why make a
> > possible new customer jump through hoops to be able to buy from them?
>
> I think if you go to the website, where it says enter your email it
> notes "* this field is optional, not required ", just click enter and
> I think you go right in. Shows you the prices on various steaks (they
> also do lamb and I think some seafood, but I haven't ordered).
> For what's it is worth, I have been on Bryan's list for about 2 years,
> I think I've gotten 3 emails that weren't directly order related.

Thanks. I viewed the site without having to email them.

I found another source of beef that may make all of the sites we
mentioned seem on the supermarket level by comparison. See
https://www.adirectfoods.com/shop/all_items . This company ships true
imported Japanese Wagyu beef from Japan. But you will pay over $US 200
per pound for top cuts of their meat. The pictures on the site are
well worth viewing and show why some call this "white steak" because
of the extreme amount of marbling in the meat. It likely is nearly as
rich as foie gras, so even a 4 oz serving would be adequate for many
people. I have had domestic Wagyu, but not the true Japanese import. I
don't think anyone I know is likely to give me some of this as a
Christmas gift no matter how much I hint.

"cwdjrxyz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
...
On Nov 17, 1:20 pm, DaleW > wrote:

--cut--
>A recent order I made from Lobels' included tournedos, veal
>scaloppine, and Italian style sausage made from chicken.

What does "Italian style sausage" mean?
Because in Italy we don't have "a sausage made from chicken".

Bye,
A.M.

Anna Maria wrote:
> "cwdjrxyz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ...
> On Nov 17, 1:20 pm, DaleW > wrote:
>
> --cut--
>> A recent order I made from Lobels' included tournedos, veal
>> scaloppine, and Italian style sausage made from chicken.
>
> What does "Italian style sausage" mean?
> Because in Italy we don't have "a sausage made from chicken".

A.M.,
"Italian" sausage refers in the US to an uncured sausage made from
(typically) pork and seasoned with fennel seeds and, in some cases,
crushed red pepper. You should see what we call "French" toast and
"English" muffins ;-)

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Nov 19, 3:33�pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Anna Maria wrote:
> > "cwdjrxyz" > ha scritto nel messaggio
> ....
> > On Nov 17, 1:20 pm, DaleW > wrote:
>
> > --cut--
> >> A recent order I made from Lobels' included tournedos, veal
> >> scaloppine, and �Italian style sausage made from chicken.
>
> > What does "Italian style sausage" mean?
> > Because in Italy we don't have "a sausage made from chicken".
>
> A.M.,
> � �"Italian" sausage refers in the US to an uncured sausage made from
> (typically) pork and seasoned with fennel seeds and, in some cases,
> crushed red pepper. �You should see what we call "French" toast and
> "English" muffins ;-)
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

LOL!!!! You might also note that we use chicken in the U.S. in place
of pork in sausage to lower the amount of fat and cholesterol so we
don't need to take as much Lipitor. The sausage doesn't really taste
like sausage nor does it have the texture of real sausage but we feel
much better about it for some odd reason.

On Nov 19, 12:43*pm, "Bi!!" > wrote:
>
> LOL!!!! *You might also note that we use chicken in the U.S. in place
> of pork in sausage to lower the amount of fat and cholesterol so we
> don't need to take as much Lipitor. *The sausage doesn't really taste
> like sausage nor does it have the texture of real sausage but we feel
> much better about it for some odd reason

That isn't as bad as the all veggie so-called pepperonis etc.

And as for the Japanese version of premium meat, I have it on good
authority that if you wagyu beef in public it can get you arrested.....

Bill S. wrote:

> And as for the Japanese version of premium meat, I have it on good
> authority that if you wagyu beef in public it can get you arrested.....

A la Tom Lehrer's quip about his fellow student who was majoring in
animal husbandry -- until he was caught at it :P

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Mark Lipton wrote:
> Bill S. wrote:
>
>
>>And as for the Japanese version of premium meat, I have it on good
>>authority that if you wagyu beef in public it can get you arrested.....
>
> A la Tom Lehrer's quip about his fellow student who was majoring in
> animal husbandry -- until he was caught at it :P
>
IMHO, people who remember Tom Lehrer are from some good "vintage"
years.

Fight Fiercely, Harvard!

Dick R.

Dick R. wrote:

> IMHO, people who remember Tom Lehrer are from some good "vintage"
> years.

One of the best ('59). No shortage of us around these parts, though.
Just ask Bill S, Mike T, Dale, Emery...

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:43:37 -0800, Bi!! wrote:

> The sausage doesn't really taste
> like sausage nor does it have the texture of real sausage but we feel
> much better about it for some odd reason.

Speak for yourself, John Alden. ;-)

I wouldn't touch an "Italian Chicken Sausage" if it were offered free.
Such travesties are customarily followed by "and you'll never know the
difference!"

Mark Lipton wrote:
> Dick R. wrote:
>
>>IMHO, people who remember Tom Lehrer are from some good "vintage"
>>years.
>
> One of the best ('59). No shortage of us around these parts, though.
> Just ask Bill S, Mike T, Dale, Emery...
>
Hi Mark and all,
To make a short story long, I remember riding my bicycle down to the local
record shop in the very early 50s. When there weren't any adults around,
the proprietor would play some Tom Lehrer records. I still have a Tom
Lehrer 45 extended play album issued in the early 50s. Ah, memories. :-)

Dick R.

Dick R. wrote:

> Hi Mark and all,
> To make a short story long, I remember riding my bicycle down to the local
> record shop in the very early 50s. When there weren't any adults around,
> the proprietor would play some Tom Lehrer records. I still have a Tom
> Lehrer 45 extended play album issued in the early 50s. Ah, memories. :-)

Cool story, Dick. He came to my parents' attention when played some
shows at the Hungry I in SF in the late '50s, so we had all his albums
on vinyl when I was growing up. I still have those 3 LPs on vinyl and
am slowly transferring them to MP3s using a USB turntable that I got for
Xmas. As a chemist married in the Catholic church, "The Elements" and
"The Vatican Rag" are two of my all-time favorites, though there are
just too many good songs to choose from.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Nov 19, 9:41*pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Dick R. wrote:
> > Hi Mark and all,
> > To make a short story long, I remember riding my bicycle down to the local
> > record shop in the very early 50s. When there weren't any adults around,
> > the proprietor would play some Tom Lehrer records. I still have a Tom
> > Lehrer 45 extended play album issued in the early 50s. Ah, memories. *:-)
>
> Cool story, Dick. *He came to my parents' attention when played some
> shows at the Hungry I in SF in the late '50s, so we had all his albums
> on vinyl when I was growing up. *I still have those 3 LPs on vinyl and
> am slowly transferring them to MP3s using a USB turntable that I got for
> Xmas. *As a chemist married in the Catholic church, "The Elements" and
> "The Vatican Rag" are two of my all-time favorites, though there are
> just too many good songs to choose from.

I am old enough to remember Tom Lehrer releases on vinyl. There have
been a few transfers to CD. The most complete likely is a fairly
recent 3 CD set called "The Remains of Tom Lehrer", and it recently
appeared in a Collectors' Choice catalog for US$44.95. They have site
at www.ccmusic.com . The set includes albums, unreleased material,
photos, notes, a disc of his 1959 concerts at MIT, etc.

In the same catalog I noticed a nearly complete 20 CD collection of
nearly everything that Edith Piaf recorded including material never
released before. The collection is called "L'Integrale . There are 413
tracks in all. She did not appear on film much, but she can be seen in
a small part in the French movie "Paris Cancan". This makes a very
tedious connection with wine because customers are drinking a lot of
Champagne in the Moulin Rouge where Piaf is singing :-).

Mark Lipton > wrote:

>> IMHO, people who remember Tom Lehrer are from some good
>> "vintage" years.

> One of the best ('59). No shortage of us around these parts,
> though. Just ask Bill S, Mike T, Dale, Emery...

I don't remember Tom Lehrer, but I am from '53 ... ;-)

Thus said, if memory serves me right, you can find Tom Lehrer
songs on youtube.

M.

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> ER, I'm from a terrible vintage, '56...

The first girl I had a longer acquaintace with in the early 1970s
was born that year. Winzergenossenschaft Gumpoldskirchen still has
some drinkable stuff.

M.

Hi Mark

On Wed, 19 Nov 2008 22:41:54 -0500, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>Xmas. As a chemist

Ah, that was my "thing" in the mid 1950s. so apart from Elements,
another was "poisoning pigeons in the park". Living in London, that
was very close to my heart, Tthough as someone who was sent back to
London for missing a pigeon and hitting a cow, (not pure bred
Guernsey, I hasten to add) I felt a lot of fellow feeling for "The
Hunting song. But as a young man with bubbling hormones, "Be prepared"
was definitely my favourite.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?...um=4&ct=title#

--
All the best
Fatty from Forges