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Default What do you look for in a small grower's Champagne?

Re-reading the thread about Pierre Moncuit's Hugues de Coulmet started by
Richard Neiddich I noticed that in small growers' Champagne I not only look
for a good wine (usually at a lower price than Maisons) but I really look
for a sense of place.

And, so, I love Pierre Peters in Le Mesnil, Agrapart in Avize, or Gatinois
in Ambonnay. And it is because they show a sense of place to me (call it
terroir if you wish).

Is this also your case or you just want it to be a good wine and that's
all?

best,

s.
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Default What do you look for in a small grower's Champagne?

On Oct 7, 10:10�am, santiago > wrote:
> Re-reading the thread about Pierre Moncuit's Hugues de Coulmet started by
> Richard Neiddich I noticed that in small growers' Champagne I not only look
> for a good wine (usually at a lower price than Maisons) but I really look
> for a sense of place.
>
> And, so, I love Pierre Peters in Le Mesnil, Agrapart in Avize, or Gatinois
> in Ambonnay. And it is because they show a sense of place to me (call it
> terroir if you wish).
>
> Is this also your case or you just want it to be a good wine and that's
> all?
>
> best,
>
> s.


I'm a bit of a terroirist re wine in general, and always appreciate a
sense of place. That being said, I don't think I have enough of a
sense of what terroir means in Champagne to actually recognize the
terroir of Le Mesnil, etc (unlike maybe Burgundy where I might think
something typical of Chambolle or Pommard). . I own more Pierre Peters
than any other house or grower, but not sure I could put an actual
sense of terroir with that. I also like Larmandier-Bernier, Egly-
Ouriet,Agrapart etc, but if you have asked me I couldn't have told you
where Agrapart is from.
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Default What do you look for in a small grower's Champagne?

".....look for a sense of place". I agree. Hear more from Terry Thiese.
First part: Riesling. 2nd part: Small houses Champagne.
Raymond

"santiago" > wrote in message
. 96.78...
> Re-reading the thread about Pierre Moncuit's Hugues de Coulmet started by
> Richard Neiddich I noticed that in small growers' Champagne I not only
> look
> for a good wine (usually at a lower price than Maisons) but I really look
> for a sense of place.
>
> And, so, I love Pierre Peters in Le Mesnil, Agrapart in Avize, or Gatinois
> in Ambonnay. And it is because they show a sense of place to me (call it
> terroir if you wish).
>
> Is this also your case or you just want it to be a good wine and that's
> all?
>
> best,
>
> s.



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Default What do you look for in a small grower's Champagne?


......look for a sense of place". I agree. Hear more from Terry Thiese.
> First part: Riesling. 2nd part: Small houses Champagne:
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...q=terry+thiese
> Raymond
>
> "santiago" > wrote in message
> . 96.78...
>> Re-reading the thread about Pierre Moncuit's Hugues de Coulmet started by
>> Richard Neiddich I noticed that in small growers' Champagne I not only
>> look
>> for a good wine (usually at a lower price than Maisons) but I really look
>> for a sense of place.
>>
>> And, so, I love Pierre Peters in Le Mesnil, Agrapart in Avize, or
>> Gatinois
>> in Ambonnay. And it is because they show a sense of place to me (call it
>> terroir if you wish).
>>
>> Is this also your case or you just want it to be a good wine and that's
>> all?
>>
>> best,
>>
>> s.

>
>



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Default What do you look for in a small grower's Champagne?

santiago wrote:

> And, so, I love Pierre Peters in Le Mesnil, Agrapart in Avize, or Gatinois
> in Ambonnay. And it is because they show a sense of place to me (call it
> terroir if you wish).
>
> Is this also your case or you just want it to be a good wine and that's
> all?


Santiago,
I think that you've hit on the central reality: Champagne should be
good wine, and good wine should have a sense of place. It also should
have a sense of time (i.e., year(s)) and a sense of person. My favorite
wines have all three. In the case of Champagne, it's a bit more
complicated, since NV blends are mostly what I can afford, and I don't
yet have enough experience with grower Champagnes to be able to reliably
identify a sense of place in them. I am, however, a willing learner, so
I will sacrifice my body (and wallet) in a pursuit of that knowledge.

Big house Champagnes can still have that sense of time and "person"
(i.e. house style) but lack that sense of place oftentimes because of
the scale on which they are made. It's also true, though, that vineyard
practices in Champagne lag well behind those in the rest of France.
Friends who've visited Champagne talk about the "moon-like landscape" of
those vineyards, devoid of any plant life apart from the vines, with
lifeless soils. <troll> In such an environement, is it even possible to
get a sense of terroir? </troll>

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net


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Default What do you look for in a small grower's Champagne?

On Oct 7, 1:53�pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> santiago wrote:
> > And, so, I love Pierre Peters in Le Mesnil, Agrapart in Avize, or Gatinois
> > in Ambonnay. And it is because they show a sense of place to me (call it
> > terroir if you wish).

>
> > Is this also your case or you just want it to be a good wine and that's
> > all?

>
> Santiago,
> � �I think that you've hit on the central reality: Champagne should be
> good wine, and good wine should have a sense of place. �It also should
> have a sense of time (i.e., year(s)) and a sense of person. My favorite
> wines have all three. �In the case of Champagne, it's a bit more
> complicated, since NV blends are mostly what I can afford, and I don't
> yet have enough experience with grower Champagnes to be able to reliably
> identify a sense of place in them. �I am, however, a willing learner, so
> I will sacrifice my body (and wallet) in a pursuit of that knowledge.
>
> Big house Champagnes can still have that sense of time and "person"
> (i.e. house style) but lack that sense of place oftentimes because of
> the scale on which they are made. �It's also true, though, that vineyard
> practices in Champagne lag well behind those in the rest of France.
> Friends who've visited Champagne talk about the "moon-like landscape" of
> those vineyards, devoid of any plant life apart from the vines, with
> lifeless soils. <troll> In such an environement, is it even possible to
> get a sense of terroir? </troll>
>
> Mark Lipton
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net


Mark,
As a fequent visitor to Champagne I would disagree with the "moon-
like" landscape. Like any vineyard laden area there are lots of
vineyards and many are on steeply terraced slopes but there has been a
significant move towards more "organic/biodynamic" treatment in the
vineyards and it's not until you get up close and personal in the
vineyards that you can see the differences from place to place and
there now is a lot of plant life within the vineyards between the
rows, etc. I found Terry Thiese's collection of grower Champagnes to
be quite special in their individual differences and while not
inexpensive, they seem to sell at the $30-$45 price point. Personal
favs are Rene Geoffroy, Pierre Peters, Jean Lallement, and Vilmart.
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Default What do you look for in a small grower's Champagne?

Mike Tommasi > wrote in
:

> I think you meant "Gatinois in Aÿ"... :-)


I stand corrected ;-) but then perhaps I will have to change my initial
thought, because to me Gatinois is not really about the typical smokyness
of Aÿ but about the sensuality of the Pinot Noir in an etereal manner
which I usually attribute to Ambonnay. But then, what do I know!!!!!!!

BTW, I did a search for "Ambonnay Character" in google and the first two
hits were for new ultra-expensive wine by Krug. Oh, well.



>>
>> Is this also your case or you just want it to be a good wine and
>> that's all?

>
> I agree of course. This is why Moncuit's Delos is a good example of
> what you are describing.
>
> I would add to your suggestions: Salon in Le Mesnil,


Mind you, Salon is not exactly in my Short List when I think of a Petit
Producteur even if their production numbers are not large.


> Eric de Sousa in
> Avize,


I agree here. I think de Sousa wines show well the Avize's terroir. But
on the other hand I have not had good luck with the wines of de Sousa. I
really prefer Agrapart. Speaking of Avize and even if I like the wines of
Anselme Selosse, do you think his wines display Avizeness? I sometimes
think that the grower's style is so strong that it neglects terroir in
some manner.


>Egly Ouriet in Ambonnay, Diebolt Vallois in Cramant.


I have to try more Egly-Ouriet since they do not have a really good
distribution in Spain. And I do not think I have tasted Diebolt-Vallois.
I will look for it.


BTW, Mike, 20th of October, I will meet Emery Davis in Chinon (chez
Baudry) for a visit, then a lunch at Auberge du Val de Vienne and then a
tour to Domaine Huet in the afternoon. Can you (or any other one
interested) join us?

Best,

s

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DaleW > wrote:

> I'm a bit of a terroirist re wine in general...


I hope the govt. computers parse this correctly - I would miss Dale's
posts while he is in Gitmo!

--
There's a fine line between stupid and clever.
ROT-13 for my e-mail address
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Default What do you look for in a small grower's Champagne?

Mike Tommasi wrote:
> santiago wrote:
>[]
>> BTW, Mike, 20th of October, I will meet Emery Davis in Chinon (chez
>> Baudry) for a visit, then a lunch at Auberge du Val de Vienne and then
>> a tour to Domaine Huet in the afternoon. Can you (or any other one
>> interested) join us?

>
> I would love to, but Chinon is not exactly next-door :-) Plus I am in
> Dubai until the day before... but I will raise a glass to you both on
> my return !
>
>


So long as you don't raise one in Dubai! (Outside of the hotel, anyway).

I understood you got up to the Tours area occasionally, too bad
no coincidence this time.

-E
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Default What do you look for in a small grower's Champagne?

Mike Tommasi wrote:
> Emery Davis wrote:
>> Mike Tommasi wrote:
>>> santiago wrote:
>>> []
>>>> BTW, Mike, 20th of October, I will meet Emery Davis in Chinon (chez
>>>> Baudry) for a visit, then a lunch at Auberge du Val de Vienne and
>>>> then a tour to Domaine Huet in the afternoon. Can you (or any other
>>>> one interested) join us?
>>>
>>> I would love to, but Chinon is not exactly next-door :-) Plus I am in
>>> Dubai until the day before... but I will raise a glass to you both
>>> on my return !
>>>
>>>

>>
>> So long as you don't raise one in Dubai! (Outside of the hotel, anyway).
>>
>> I understood you got up to the Tours area occasionally, too bad
>> no coincidence this time.

>
> Maybe mid november...
>
>


Hmm, how about a lunch in Jasnieres? You can introduce me to your
guy there...

Say Mike, the Aub du Val de Vienne will be closed for Santiago and I,
it being a Monday. Got any ideas for a good lunch place to go in
the area?

cheers,

-E


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Emery Davis > wrote in
:
>
> Say Mike, the Aub du Val de Vienne will be closed for Santiago and I,
> it being a Monday. Got any ideas for a good lunch place to go in
> the area?


L'Aigle d'Or in 37190 Azay le Rideau seems to be open on mondays. Bib-
Gourmand and good Wine List marks in Guide Michelin. Any comments?


Best,

s.
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