White wine...TCA
 

I'm going to assume that most of you here are more knowledgable than I
about wine. Because quite frankly I'm not knowledgable about it at all.

I have two questions if you don't mind ?

I've started liking red wines,.supposed to be good for you [to-a-point]
& all,..& not as filling as beer. I like Merlot,Shiraz,..etc.
I don't buy expensive wine [per-si] $10-12.00 p/bott...but I have
developed a taste for it.

Question one is;.....knowing that,..what white wine would you think i
might like?

Question two;.....what is TCA ?..I've seen it mentioned here and I'm
just curious.

Thanks !......Ron

White wine...TCA
 

On Sep 23, 4:17�pm, (R P) wrote:
> � I'm going to assume that most of you here are more knowledgable than I
> about wine. Because quite frankly I'm not knowledgable about it at all.
>
> �I have two questions if you don't mind ?
>
> �I've started liking red wines,.supposed to be good for you [to-a-point]
> & all,..& not as filling as beer. I like Merlot,Shiraz,..etc.
> �I don't buy expensive wine [per-si] $10-12.00 p/bott...but I have
> developed a taste for it.
>
> �Question one is;.....knowing that,..what white wine would you think i
> might like?
>
> �Question two;.....what is TCA ?..I've seen it mentioned here and I'm
> just curious.
>
> � � � Thanks !......Ron

First question is tough. Everyone's tastes are different. Where are
you? Hard to make specific suggestions, as what's available varies.
I'd start by going to your favorite wine store, ask for recs for a
good Sauvignon Blanc, Chardonnay, and Riesling in your range. See what
you think, and then tell salesperson (or post here) what you liked and
disliked about each one.

TCA is 2,4,6-trichloroanisole. A chemical compound that taints wine
(and sometimes other stuff). The most common source in wine is corks,
hence TCA contamination is known as a wine being "corked." There are
other systemic ways wine can be "corked", but the cork is the most
common. TCA is very strong, the average person can smell it in
concentrations of about 2-3 parts per trillion! Most common
descriptors are wet cardboard or mildew. Even lower concentrations can
lead to loss of aromatics in wine ("fruit scalping)>

White wine...TCA
 

Dale, thanks for replying. I live in Ohio. I do know that there are
some vineyards of note in my state.

I have tried Riesling,..too sweet for my taste. Don't get me wrong I'm
fine with red wine,..I just thought I would try others.
BTW; if you don't mind another question,?..what is a port ?
Thanks again!....Ron

White wine...TCA
 

R P wrote:

> Question one is;.....knowing that,..what white wine would you think i
> might like?

Probably Chardonnay, Viognier, Pinot Grigio you may enjoy. There are
dry Rieslings but I don't care for them myself.

White wine...TCA
 

On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 17:45:26 -0400, (R P) wrote:

> BTW; if you don't mind another question,?..what is a port ?

I don't want to sound unfriendly, but I really think you'd do better
using Google:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=&cat...22port+wine%22

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

White wine...TCA
 

"R P" > skrev i melding
...
> Dale, thanks for replying. I live in Ohio. I do know that there are
> some vineyards of note in my state.
>
> I have tried Riesling,..too sweet for my taste.
There are bone dry Rieslings too, of course. It all depends on how much of
the juice sugar is converted to alcohol during fermentation. If you buy a
Riesling with 12-14% alcohol it will normally be very dry unless the grapes
were extremely ripe in which case there would be some residual sugar.
Anders

White wine...TCA
 

Miles > wrote:

> There are dry Rieslings but I don't care for them myself.

Hmmm ... just opened a 2007 Reserve from Weingut Sax in Langenlois
(Kamptal, Austria), at 13% a bone dry affair ... and I really do
care! ;-)

M.

White wine...TCA
 

So in other words a higher % alcohol means dryer?,is this true for
white & red ?

And I am not arguing,doubting,besmirching<g> or anything else,cause as
I said I'm a wine dunce......!....but.....how in the world do you folks
sense all those flavors you speak of in a taste ?
I taste sweet,dry,.one I had maybe creamy?
No fruits,nuts,straw,etc.?????
Ron....

White wine...TCA
 

"R P" > skrev i melding
...
> So in other words a higher % alcohol means dryer?,is this true for
> white & red ?
Yes, generally. But it depends on the grape material and the climate. Hot
California vineyards yields grapes packed with sugar and may make wines with
15-16+% alcohol. At that level the yeast dies, fermentation stops and any
remaining sugar will make the wine sweetish.
Continental Europe is cooler, so a 12-14% wine from Germany or Austria, for
instance, will almost always be dry.
>
> And I am not arguing,doubting,besmirching<g> or anything else,cause as
> I said I'm a wine dunce......!....but.....how in the world do you folks
> sense all those flavors you speak of in a taste ?
> I taste sweet,dry,.one I had maybe creamy?
> No fruits,nuts,straw,etc.?????
> Ron....
>
Don't worry - I have the same problem... :-) You'll find more nuances
after some time, but some guys (and girls) are really proficient at that
game, at least verbally... :-)
Anders

White wine...TCA
 

Thank You Anders !
Ron

White wine...TCA
 

Anders Tørneskog wrote:
> "R P" > skrev i melding
> ...
>> So in other words a higher % alcohol means dryer?,is this true for
>> white & red ?
> Yes, generally.

Most sweet wines I have tried are often the highest alcohol wines but
I'm assuming they are fortified. Big fruit forward Zins are almost as
high. The dry wines I drink (mostly reds) seem to range between 13-14%.
The sweet wines I've tried are 14-16%. I do admit I don't know much
about sweet wines as they really aren't my thing!

White wine...TCA
 

On Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:48:49 -0400, (R P) wrote:

> So in other words a higher % alcohol means dryer?,is this true for
>white & red ?

Fermentation converts sugar to alcohol. So if 2 wines are made from
grape must with the same amount of sugar initially, the wine with the
less alcohol means that it has more sugar remaining. It applies to
red and white, but assumes that sugar and/or alcohol is not added
after the fermentation of course.

Any wine with a low ABV (say 8% or less) will have some sugar
remaining after the fermentation, and thus will be at least a little
sweet. That is often a good indicator for Rieslings, certainly
cheaper German Rieslings. But some sweet wines are made with very
high initial sugar content - these can be normal strength and still
sweet.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

White wine...TCA
 

Steve Slatcher > wrote:

> But some sweet wines are made with very high initial sugar
> content - these can be normal strength and still sweet.

Typically Sauternes would be of this type.

M.

White wine...TCA
 

On Thu, 25 Sep 2008 09:31:33 +0200, Michael Pronay >
wrote:

>Steve Slatcher > wrote:
>
>> But some sweet wines are made with very high initial sugar
>> content - these can be normal strength and still sweet.
>
>Typically Sauternes would be of this type.

Especially when chaptalised. If like me you think the idea of
chaptalising sweet wines is a nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or
else buy Sauternes from members of Sapros.

(To RP chaptalising is adding sugar to fermenting grape juice to
increase the alcoholic strength of the finished product. It's all too
common - especially in France, IMO)
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

White wine...TCA
 

IanH > wrote:

>>> But some sweet wines are made with very high initial sugar
>>> content - these can be normal strength and still sweet.

>> Typically Sauternes would be of this type.
>
> Especially when chaptalised.

Of course. But the best (Yquem et al.) are not, to the best of my
knowledge. Generic Sauternes, however, is always.

> If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is a
> nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes from
> members of Sapros.

Or buy any German or Austrian
Beerenauslese/Ausbruch/Trockenbeerenauslese.

But then we normally are not at 12/13% alc., but much less, except
maybe for some Ruster Ausbruch wines.

M.

White wine...TCA
 

"Michael Pronay" > skrev i melding
...
>
>> If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is a
>> nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes from
>> members of Sapros.
>
> Or buy any German or Austrian
> Beerenauslese/Ausbruch/Trockenbeerenauslese.
>
WHAT? Chaptalising a Beerenauslese?
Anders

White wine...TCA
 

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

>>> If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is a
************************************************** *
>>> nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes from
********
>>> members of Sapros.

>> Or buy any German or Austrian
>> Beerenauslese/Ausbruch/Trockenbeerenauslese.

> WHAT? Chaptalising a Beerenauslese?

Ian and I talk about *non*-chaptalized noble sweet wines.

M.

White wine...TCA
 

"Michael Pronay" > skrev i melding
...
> "Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:
>
>>>> If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is a
> ************************************************** *
>>>> nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes from
> ********
>>>> members of Sapros.
>
Yes, I misread Ian slightly :-) - "if you think the idea is nonsense then
try Sapros Sauternes (implied: you'll find a good chaptalised sweet
wine...)"

One should not write too late in the night, and not after a bottle of
Musella Valpolicella Superiore (or any other)
Anders

White wine...TCA
 

"Anders Tørneskog" > wrote:

>>>>> If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is
>> *************************************************
>>>>> a nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes
>> ********
>>>>> from members of Sapros.

> Yes, I misread Ian slightly :-) - "if you think the idea is
> nonsense then try Sapros Sauternes (implied: you'll find a good
> chaptalised sweet wine...)"

Thanks for pointing that out. Indeed, what Ian has written can be
misunderstood. The simple reason I didn't misubnderstand him was
the fact that I have known his point about chaptalisation (he
abhoars it, in every wine!) for ages.

> One should not write too late in the night, and not after a
> bottle of Musella Valpolicella Superiore (or any other)

Come on, right now I write after a can of Heineken (pshhht - don't
tell anyone!)

M.

White wine...TCA
 

"Mike Tommasi" > skrev i melding
...

> .... Indeed, very few Sauternes are not chaptalized, even most of the
> really high end ones are sugared.
>
>
Now I say WHAT again! My Suduiraut 1986 is?
Anders

White wine...TCA
 

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:24:37 +0200, Michael Pronay >
wrote:

>IanH > wrote:
>
>>>> But some sweet wines are made with very high initial sugar
>>>> content - these can be normal strength and still sweet.
>
>>> Typically Sauternes would be of this type.
>>
>> Especially when chaptalised.
>
>Of course. But the best (Yquem et al.) are not, to the best of my
>knowledge. Generic Sauternes, however, is always.

I wish I could be confident that were true. I think many wine makers
in the Bordeaux region find it _really_ hard to resist adding "just
that extras half a degree". For my taste it almost always throws the
wine out of balance. In the case of the lesser Sauternes, Monbazillacs
and so on, it does so to the extent of making them undrinkable.

The point (in my view) is this. When grapes are dried - either through
the action of botrytis on the skins, or through long sun drying in
passerillé wines and vins paillés or the must is concentrated through
extracting water in eisweine, you end up with initial sugar and
acidity that is in balance. When a winemaker chaptalises, a sweet
wine, even if s/he does so to increase the alcohol level, it allows
the winemaker to stop the fermentation earlier and still have the
amount of alcohol s/he wants, so the amount of _residual_ sugar in
the finished wine is increased, of course. But the acidity isn't, and
the wine all too easily ends up wrong.

You're perfectly right of course that beeren and trockenbeerenauslese
wines are also made without sussréserve and therefore retain that
balance that marks the best sweet wines, in my view.

Anders, I'm sorry. You're perfectly right that my original post could
have been misread. Sorry about that again.

>But then we normally are not at 12/13% alc., but much less, except
>maybe for some Ruster Ausbruch wines.

Quite true. However stopping fermentation at relatively low alcohol
levels (to retain high RS) requires some kind of intervention,
(sulphuring in the bad old day, or fine filtering, or thermal shock)
whereas the ideal sweet wine from Aquitaine will have stopped
fermenting naturally with considerable residual sugar, AND end up with
these higher alcohol levels. Theoretically.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

White wine...TCA
 

"IanH" > skrev i melding
...
..
>
> Anders, I'm sorry. You're perfectly right that my original post could
> have been misread. Sorry about that again.
>
It was actually my error.... You wrote: If like me you think the idea of
chaptalising sweet wines is a nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or
else buy Sauternes from members of Sapros.

The key is 'like me' - that indicated a recommendation to go for Saussignac
or Sapros Sauternes - without that the sentence must be understood the way I
initially did.
And, yes, I agree about chaptalisation - but I remember well German wines of
the cooler years in the past that were made drinkable with some extra
help.... QbA at that time was usually chaptalised I think.
Anders