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Old 26-09-2008, 11:01 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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"Michael Pronay" skrev i melding
...

If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is a
nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes from
members of Sapros.


Or buy any German or Austrian
Beerenauslese/Ausbruch/Trockenbeerenauslese.

WHAT? Chaptalising a Beerenauslese?
Anders



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Old 27-09-2008, 10:19 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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"Anders Tørneskog" wrote:

If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is a

************************************************** *
nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes from

********
members of Sapros.


Or buy any German or Austrian
Beerenauslese/Ausbruch/Trockenbeerenauslese.


WHAT? Chaptalising a Beerenauslese?


Ian and I talk about *non*-chaptalized noble sweet wines.

M.
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Old 27-09-2008, 11:52 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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"Michael Pronay" skrev i melding
...
"Anders Tørneskog" wrote:

If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is a

************************************************** *
nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes from

********
members of Sapros.


Yes, I misread Ian slightly :-) - "if you think the idea is nonsense then
try Sapros Sauternes (implied: you'll find a good chaptalised sweet
wine...)"

One should not write too late in the night, and not after a bottle of
Musella Valpolicella Superiore (or any other)
Anders


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Old 27-09-2008, 12:30 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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"Anders Tørneskog" wrote:

If like me you think the idea of chaptalising sweet wines is

*************************************************
a nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or else buy Sauternes

********
from members of Sapros.


Yes, I misread Ian slightly :-) - "if you think the idea is
nonsense then try Sapros Sauternes (implied: you'll find a good
chaptalised sweet wine...)"


Thanks for pointing that out. Indeed, what Ian has written can be
misunderstood. The simple reason I didn't misubnderstand him was
the fact that I have known his point about chaptalisation (he
abhoars it, in every wine!) for ages.

One should not write too late in the night, and not after a
bottle of Musella Valpolicella Superiore (or any other)


Come on, right now I write after a can of Heineken (pshhht - don't
tell anyone!)

M.
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Old 27-09-2008, 11:27 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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"Mike Tommasi" skrev i melding
...

.... Indeed, very few Sauternes are not chaptalized, even most of the
really high end ones are sugared.


Now I say WHAT again! My Suduiraut 1986 is?
Anders




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Old 28-09-2008, 05:24 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 18:24:37 +0200, Michael Pronay
wrote:

IanH wrote:

But some sweet wines are made with very high initial sugar
content - these can be normal strength and still sweet.


Typically Sauternes would be of this type.


Especially when chaptalised.


Of course. But the best (Yquem et al.) are not, to the best of my
knowledge. Generic Sauternes, however, is always.


I wish I could be confident that were true. I think many wine makers
in the Bordeaux region find it _really_ hard to resist adding "just
that extras half a degree". For my taste it almost always throws the
wine out of balance. In the case of the lesser Sauternes, Monbazillacs
and so on, it does so to the extent of making them undrinkable.

The point (in my view) is this. When grapes are dried - either through
the action of botrytis on the skins, or through long sun drying in
passerillé wines and vins paillés or the must is concentrated through
extracting water in eisweine, you end up with initial sugar and
acidity that is in balance. When a winemaker chaptalises, a sweet
wine, even if s/he does so to increase the alcohol level, it allows
the winemaker to stop the fermentation earlier and still have the
amount of alcohol s/he wants, so the amount of _residual_ sugar in
the finished wine is increased, of course. But the acidity isn't, and
the wine all too easily ends up wrong.

You're perfectly right of course that beeren and trockenbeerenauslese
wines are also made without sussréserve and therefore retain that
balance that marks the best sweet wines, in my view.

Anders, I'm sorry. You're perfectly right that my original post could
have been misread. Sorry about that again.

But then we normally are not at 12/13% alc., but much less, except
maybe for some Ruster Ausbruch wines.


Quite true. However stopping fermentation at relatively low alcohol
levels (to retain high RS) requires some kind of intervention,
(sulphuring in the bad old day, or fine filtering, or thermal shock)
whereas the ideal sweet wine from Aquitaine will have stopped
fermenting naturally with considerable residual sugar, AND end up with
these higher alcohol levels. Theoretically.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges
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Old 28-09-2008, 08:29 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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"IanH" skrev i melding
...
..

Anders, I'm sorry. You're perfectly right that my original post could
have been misread. Sorry about that again.

It was actually my error.... You wrote: If like me you think the idea of
chaptalising sweet wines is a nonsense, then go for a Saussignac, or
else buy Sauternes from members of Sapros.

The key is 'like me' - that indicated a recommendation to go for Saussignac
or Sapros Sauternes - without that the sentence must be understood the way I
initially did.
And, yes, I agree about chaptalisation - but I remember well German wines of
the cooler years in the past that were made drinkable with some extra
help.... QbA at that time was usually chaptalised I think.
Anders




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