I got together with some friends this weekend to blind taste a group
of somewhat "cult" styled wines. We started with a couple of whites
then migrated through a bunch of "trophy" wines. My brief notes
follow:

2005 Sine Qua Non Petition-Viognier, Roussane, Chardonnay blend: Oily,
opulent, aromatic, honeyed and flowery with a good lemony chardonnay
base.

2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay-Quite Burgundian with a fair amount of
stones and lemon peel. Less wood than previous Kongsgaard with a
bright acidity.

2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay "The Judge"-This is Kongsgaard's ultra
premium Chardonnay. Very similar to the regular bottling but on
steroids. Mouthfilling rich fruit yet quite elegant and Burgundian.
More lemon curd than lemon peel.

2003 Grace Family Cabernet-the nose was of pine and mint. Lighter in
style than anticipated. Medium bodied, red fruits and exotic spice
nice balance and food friendly.

1994 Diamond Creek Lake-My third tasting of this wine this year. This
bottle showed much more age than previous bottles. Very similar to
older Bordeaux, lead pencil, cedar, leather and tobacco with a fair
amount of cassis. Some thought it was a ringer and that we were
drinking '90 Mouton.

2003 Colgin Cabernet-Thick heavy blackberry syrup. Too much oak and
fruit concentration for my taste. High alcohol heat on the palate.
This was one glass was enough for an evening it was so over the top.

2004 Marcassin Blue Slide Pinot Noir-Very ripe, I mistook it for a
grenache-syrah based California wine. Extremely plummy and blueberry
fruity. Very candied and thick as syrup. Very little to connect it
with Pinot Noir.

2005 Winter Cabernet-This wine was new to me. Quite refined and well
within itself. Nicely structured. Cassis, a bit of smoke, blackberry
and plum. Smooth rich tannins. A wine to watch for.

2002 Harlan Estate-Much is written about Harlan...I'm not sure why.
It smelled and tasted like cherry cough syrup to me. Very lush, very
massive juicy fruit and plenty of oaky vanilla. Not my style.

1998 Shafer Hillside Select-Ahhhhhh reality sets in. Plenty of
mineral and stones on the nose with a pure black fruit aroma. Well
balanced and still youthful with deep rich black currant, a bit of
spicy oak but overall a terrific example of Napa Cabernet.

2003 Sloan Cabernet-Fruit by Abreu, made by Aubert. Very rich and
ripe. SLeek and clena yet far too much concentration. Very "grapey"
and "plummy" not much elegance just pure power.

1997 Araujo Eisile Cabernet-WOTN-Classic in style with a nose of sweet
black fruits and berries with a hint of Napa dust. Medium weight on
the palate. A melange of black fruits, black cherry, plum and
blackberry. Perfectly aged and ready to drink. Totally balanced.

1996 Dalle Valle Maya-Big, dark and brooding. Still very young.
Sharp nose of lead pencil, black pepper and black dirt. Medium heavy
with black coffee, cocoa and spice notes. Plenty of rich cassis and
currant flavors.

On Aug 18, 12:13�pm, "Bi!!" > wrote:
> I got together with some friends this weekend to blind taste a group
> of somewhat "cult" styled wines. �We started with a couple of whites
> then migrated through a bunch of "trophy" wines. �My brief notes
> follow:
>
> 2005 Sine Qua Non Petition-Viognier, Roussane, Chardonnay blend: Oily,
> opulent, aromatic, honeyed and flowery with a good lemony chardonnay
> base.
>
> 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay-Quite Burgundian with a fair amount of
> stones and lemon peel. �Less wood than previous Kongsgaard with a
> bright acidity.
>
> 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay "The Judge"-This is Kongsgaard's ultra
> premium Chardonnay. �Very similar to the regular bottling but on
> steroids. �Mouthfilling rich fruit yet quite elegant and Burgundian.
> More lemon curd than lemon peel.
>
> 2003 Grace Family Cabernet-the nose was of pine and mint. �Lighter in
> style than anticipated. �Medium bodied, red fruits and exotic spice
> nice balance and food friendly.
>
> 1994 Diamond Creek Lake-My third tasting of this wine this year. �This
> bottle showed much more age than previous bottles. �Very similar to
> older Bordeaux, lead pencil, cedar, leather and tobacco with a fair
> amount of cassis. �Some thought it was a ringer and that we were
> drinking '90 Mouton.
>
> 2003 Colgin Cabernet-Thick heavy blackberry syrup. �Too much oak and
> fruit concentration for my taste. �High alcohol heat on the palate.
> This was one glass was enough for an evening it was so over the top.
>
> 2004 Marcassin Blue Slide Pinot Noir-Very ripe, I mistook it for a
> grenache-syrah based California wine. �Extremely plummy and blueberry
> fruity. �Very candied and thick as syrup. �Very little to connect it
> with Pinot Noir.
>
> 2005 Winter Cabernet-This wine was new to me. �Quite refined and well
> within itself. �Nicely structured. �Cassis, a bit of smoke, blackberry
> and plum. �Smooth rich tannins. �A wine to watch for.
>
> 2002 Harlan Estate-Much is written about Harlan...I'm not sure why.
> It smelled and tasted like cherry cough syrup to me. �Very lush, very
> massive juicy fruit and plenty of oaky vanilla. �Not my style.
>
> 1998 Shafer Hillside Select-Ahhhhhh reality sets in. �Plenty of
> mineral and stones on the nose with a pure black fruit aroma. �Well
> balanced and still youthful with deep rich black currant, a bit of
> spicy oak but overall a terrific example of Napa Cabernet.
>
> 2003 Sloan Cabernet-Fruit by Abreu, made by Aubert. �Very rich and
> ripe. �SLeek and clena yet far too much concentration. �Very "grapey"
> and "plummy" not much elegance just pure power.
>
> 1997 Araujo Eisile Cabernet-WOTN-Classic in style with a nose of sweet
> black fruits and berries with a hint of Napa dust. �Medium weight on
> the palate. �A melange of black fruits, black cherry, plum and
> blackberry. �Perfectly aged and ready to drink. �Totally balanced.
>
> 1996 Dalle Valle Maya-Big, dark and brooding. �Still very young.
> Sharp nose of lead pencil, black pepper and black dirt. �Medium heavy
> with black coffee, cocoa and spice notes. �Plenty of rich cassis and
> currant flavors.

Impressive lineup and nice notes, thanks!
Not that this will affect my buying.

What a lineup, Bill. Thank you for those notes on the trophy wines. In
my ignorance, I tar them all with same brush (overripe, confected,
etc.), so it's good to read about the ones that defy the stereotype.
Shafer Hillside Select is no surprise, but it is a relief to read
something positive about the Araujo Eisele, as I have fond memories of
the Phelps wines made from that vineyard. No surprise about the Diamond
Creek, either, though the Dalla Valle Maya I wouldn't have predicted to
be as traditional as it sounds like. Like Dale, though, I won't be
changing my buying habits unless we see a major collapse in the wine
market (yah, right!).

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Aug 18, 3:58�pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> What a lineup, Bill. �Thank you for those notes on the trophy wines. �In
> my ignorance, I tar them all with same brush (overripe, confected,
> etc.), so it's good to read about the ones that defy the stereotype.
> Shafer Hillside Select is no surprise, but it is a relief to read
> something positive about the Araujo Eisele, as I have fond memories of
> the Phelps wines made from that vineyard. �No surprise about the Diamond
> Creek, either, though the Dalla Valle Maya I wouldn't have predicted to
> be as traditional as it sounds like. �Like Dale, though, I won't be
> changing my buying habits unless we see a major collapse in the wine
> market (yah, right!).
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Actually, my contribution to the tasting was the Araujo and the Maya
bought long before the madness set in and while they were pricey
bottles for their time there was no comparison to todays prices. I
sort of expected the Sloan, Harlan, Colgin "over the top" thing but
the Winter www.truewinter.com was far better than expected and I just
saw it online for $125...not cheap but certainly better than Harlan
prices. The Grace Family was a total shock and an eye opener. I
won't be buying any at their current release prices but at least I
know now what I'll be missing. I tend to spend the higher dollars
these days on my Burgundy habit.

In article
>,
"Bi!!" > wrote:

> I got together with some friends this weekend to blind taste a group
> of somewhat "cult" styled wines. We started with a couple of whites
> then migrated through a bunch of "trophy" wines. My brief notes
> follow:
>
> 2005 Sine Qua Non Petition-Viognier, Roussane, Chardonnay blend: Oily,
> opulent, aromatic, honeyed and flowery with a good lemony chardonnay
> base.
>
> 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay-Quite Burgundian with a fair amount of
> stones and lemon peel. Less wood than previous Kongsgaard with a
> bright acidity.
>
> 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay "The Judge"-This is Kongsgaard's ultra
> premium Chardonnay. Very similar to the regular bottling but on
> steroids. Mouthfilling rich fruit yet quite elegant and Burgundian.
> More lemon curd than lemon peel.
>
> 2003 Grace Family Cabernet-the nose was of pine and mint. Lighter in
> style than anticipated. Medium bodied, red fruits and exotic spice
> nice balance and food friendly.
>
> 1994 Diamond Creek Lake-My third tasting of this wine this year. This
> bottle showed much more age than previous bottles. Very similar to
> older Bordeaux, lead pencil, cedar, leather and tobacco with a fair
> amount of cassis. Some thought it was a ringer and that we were
> drinking '90 Mouton.
>
> 2003 Colgin Cabernet-Thick heavy blackberry syrup. Too much oak and
> fruit concentration for my taste. High alcohol heat on the palate.
> This was one glass was enough for an evening it was so over the top.
>
> 2004 Marcassin Blue Slide Pinot Noir-Very ripe, I mistook it for a
> grenache-syrah based California wine. Extremely plummy and blueberry
> fruity. Very candied and thick as syrup. Very little to connect it
> with Pinot Noir.
>
> 2005 Winter Cabernet-This wine was new to me. Quite refined and well
> within itself. Nicely structured. Cassis, a bit of smoke, blackberry
> and plum. Smooth rich tannins. A wine to watch for.
>
> 2002 Harlan Estate-Much is written about Harlan...I'm not sure why.
> It smelled and tasted like cherry cough syrup to me. Very lush, very
> massive juicy fruit and plenty of oaky vanilla. Not my style.
>
> 1998 Shafer Hillside Select-Ahhhhhh reality sets in. Plenty of
> mineral and stones on the nose with a pure black fruit aroma. Well
> balanced and still youthful with deep rich black currant, a bit of
> spicy oak but overall a terrific example of Napa Cabernet.
>
> 2003 Sloan Cabernet-Fruit by Abreu, made by Aubert. Very rich and
> ripe. SLeek and clena yet far too much concentration. Very "grapey"
> and "plummy" not much elegance just pure power.
>
> 1997 Araujo Eisile Cabernet-WOTN-Classic in style with a nose of sweet
> black fruits and berries with a hint of Napa dust. Medium weight on
> the palate. A melange of black fruits, black cherry, plum and
> blackberry. Perfectly aged and ready to drink. Totally balanced.
>
> 1996 Dalle Valle Maya-Big, dark and brooding. Still very young.
> Sharp nose of lead pencil, black pepper and black dirt. Medium heavy
> with black coffee, cocoa and spice notes. Plenty of rich cassis and
> currant flavors.

Nice tasting. Not too much under $200 per bottle. I have to say that I
have nor or am not likely taste any of these

On Aug 19, 8:36*pm, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> *"Bi!!" > wrote:
> > I got together with some friends this weekend to blind taste a group
> > of somewhat "cult" styled wines. *We started with a couple of whites
> > then migrated through a bunch of "trophy" wines. *My brief notes
> > follow:
>
> > 2005 Sine Qua Non Petition-Viognier, Roussane, Chardonnay blend: Oily,
> > opulent, aromatic, honeyed and flowery with a good lemony chardonnay
> > base.
>
> > 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay-Quite Burgundian with a fair amount of
> > stones and lemon peel. *Less wood than previous Kongsgaard with a
> > bright acidity.
>
> > 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay "The Judge"-This is Kongsgaard's ultra
> > premium Chardonnay. *Very similar to the regular bottling but on
> > steroids. *Mouthfilling rich fruit yet quite elegant and Burgundian.
> > More lemon curd than lemon peel.
>
> > 2003 Grace Family Cabernet-the nose was of pine and mint. *Lighter in
> > style than anticipated. *Medium bodied, red fruits and exotic spice
> > nice balance and food friendly.
>
> > 1994 Diamond Creek Lake-My third tasting of this wine this year. *This
> > bottle showed much more age than previous bottles. *Very similar to
> > older Bordeaux, lead pencil, cedar, leather and tobacco with a fair
> > amount of cassis. *Some thought it was a ringer and that we were
> > drinking '90 Mouton.
>
> > 2003 Colgin Cabernet-Thick heavy blackberry syrup. *Too much oak and
> > fruit concentration for my taste. *High alcohol heat on the palate.
> > This was one glass was enough for an evening it was so over the top.
>
> > 2004 Marcassin Blue Slide Pinot Noir-Very ripe, I mistook it for a
> > grenache-syrah based California wine. *Extremely plummy and blueberry
> > fruity. *Very candied and thick as syrup. *Very little to connect it
> > with Pinot Noir.
>
> > 2005 Winter Cabernet-This wine was new to me. *Quite refined and well
> > within itself. *Nicely structured. *Cassis, a bit of smoke, blackberry
> > and plum. *Smooth rich tannins. *A wine to watch for.
>
> > 2002 Harlan Estate-Much is written about Harlan...I'm not sure why.
> > It smelled and tasted like cherry cough syrup to me. *Very lush, very
> > massive juicy fruit and plenty of oaky vanilla. *Not my style.
>
> > 1998 Shafer Hillside Select-Ahhhhhh reality sets in. *Plenty of
> > mineral and stones on the nose with a pure black fruit aroma. *Well
> > balanced and still youthful with deep rich black currant, a bit of
> > spicy oak but overall a terrific example of Napa Cabernet.
>
> > 2003 Sloan Cabernet-Fruit by Abreu, made by Aubert. *Very rich and
> > ripe. *SLeek and clena yet far too much concentration. *Very "grapey"
> > and "plummy" not much elegance just pure power.
>
> > 1997 Araujo Eisile Cabernet-WOTN-Classic in style with a nose of sweet
> > black fruits and berries with a hint of Napa dust. *Medium weight on
> > the palate. *A melange of black fruits, black cherry, plum and
> > blackberry. *Perfectly aged and ready to drink. *Totally balanced.
>
> > 1996 Dalle Valle Maya-Big, dark and brooding. *Still very young.
> > Sharp nose of lead pencil, black pepper and black dirt. *Medium heavy
> > with black coffee, cocoa and spice notes. *Plenty of rich cassis and
> > currant flavors.
>
> Nice tasting. Not too much under $200 per bottle. I have to say that I
> have nor or am not likely taste any of these- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I was of the same opinion some years ago, but I been buying a
proportion of my cellar at auction and if you look carefully you can
pick up some real bargains. If you get the chance check out my <a
href=”http://www.orderwineonlineblog.com”>Order Wine Online</a> blog.

In article
>,
wardy > wrote:

> On Aug 19, 8:36*pm, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *"Bi!!" > wrote:
> > > I got together with some friends this weekend to blind taste a group
> > > of somewhat "cult" styled wines. *We started with a couple of whites
> > > then migrated through a bunch of "trophy" wines. *My brief notes
> > > follow:
> >
> > > 2005 Sine Qua Non Petition-Viognier, Roussane, Chardonnay blend: Oily,
> > > opulent, aromatic, honeyed and flowery with a good lemony chardonnay
> > > base.
> >
> > > 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay-Quite Burgundian with a fair amount of
> > > stones and lemon peel. *Less wood than previous Kongsgaard with a
> > > bright acidity.
> >
> > > 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay "The Judge"-This is Kongsgaard's ultra
> > > premium Chardonnay. *Very similar to the regular bottling but on
> > > steroids. *Mouthfilling rich fruit yet quite elegant and Burgundian.
> > > More lemon curd than lemon peel.
> >
> > > 2003 Grace Family Cabernet-the nose was of pine and mint. *Lighter in
> > > style than anticipated. *Medium bodied, red fruits and exotic spice
> > > nice balance and food friendly.
> >
> > > 1994 Diamond Creek Lake-My third tasting of this wine this year. *This
> > > bottle showed much more age than previous bottles. *Very similar to
> > > older Bordeaux, lead pencil, cedar, leather and tobacco with a fair
> > > amount of cassis. *Some thought it was a ringer and that we were
> > > drinking '90 Mouton.
> >
> > > 2003 Colgin Cabernet-Thick heavy blackberry syrup. *Too much oak and
> > > fruit concentration for my taste. *High alcohol heat on the palate.
> > > This was one glass was enough for an evening it was so over the top.
> >
> > > 2004 Marcassin Blue Slide Pinot Noir-Very ripe, I mistook it for a
> > > grenache-syrah based California wine. *Extremely plummy and blueberry
> > > fruity. *Very candied and thick as syrup. *Very little to connect it
> > > with Pinot Noir.
> >
> > > 2005 Winter Cabernet-This wine was new to me. *Quite refined and well
> > > within itself. *Nicely structured. *Cassis, a bit of smoke, blackberry
> > > and plum. *Smooth rich tannins. *A wine to watch for.
> >
> > > 2002 Harlan Estate-Much is written about Harlan...I'm not sure why.
> > > It smelled and tasted like cherry cough syrup to me. *Very lush, very
> > > massive juicy fruit and plenty of oaky vanilla. *Not my style.
> >
> > > 1998 Shafer Hillside Select-Ahhhhhh reality sets in. *Plenty of
> > > mineral and stones on the nose with a pure black fruit aroma. *Well
> > > balanced and still youthful with deep rich black currant, a bit of
> > > spicy oak but overall a terrific example of Napa Cabernet.
> >
> > > 2003 Sloan Cabernet-Fruit by Abreu, made by Aubert. *Very rich and
> > > ripe. *SLeek and clena yet far too much concentration. *Very "grapey"
> > > and "plummy" not much elegance just pure power.
> >
> > > 1997 Araujo Eisile Cabernet-WOTN-Classic in style with a nose of sweet
> > > black fruits and berries with a hint of Napa dust. *Medium weight on
> > > the palate. *A melange of black fruits, black cherry, plum and
> > > blackberry. *Perfectly aged and ready to drink. *Totally balanced.
> >
> > > 1996 Dalle Valle Maya-Big, dark and brooding. *Still very young.
> > > Sharp nose of lead pencil, black pepper and black dirt. *Medium heavy
> > > with black coffee, cocoa and spice notes. *Plenty of rich cassis and
> > > currant flavors.
> >
> > Nice tasting. Not too much under $200 per bottle. I have to say that I
> > have nor or am not likely taste any of these- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> I was of the same opinion some years ago, but I been buying a
> proportion of my cellar at auction and if you look carefully you can
> pick up some real bargains. If you get the chance check out my <a
> href=²http://www.orderwineonlineblog.com²>Order Wine Online</a> blog.

Can you really find bargains on these? I guess it all depends what you
consider a bargain. Marcassin and Kongaards tend to run over $200 per
bottle. Shafer is usually affordable but still expensive. Sine qua non
also tends to run on the high side of $150 per bottle. Same with the
other Cabs listed here. What auction site do you use?

Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

> Can you really find bargains on these? I guess it all depends what you
> consider a bargain. Marcassin and Kongaards tend to run over $200 per
> bottle. Shafer is usually affordable but still expensive. Sine qua non
> also tends to run on the high side of $150 per bottle. Same with the
> other Cabs listed here. What auction site do you use?

Good question, Larry. My experience in the auction market (mostly with
Hart Davis Hart in Chicago) is that CalCabs tend to fetch fairly high
prices, as do first and supersecond growths and DRC. OTOH, the wines I
seek out (older Bdx, N Rhones, older Burgs, all from "under the radar"
producers) are generally had at about 50-60% of retail. Probably our
all-time best purchase was a mixed lot of 10 '88 Grand Cru Cote de Nuits
Burgs, including Dujac's '88 Clos de la Roche and various Chambertins.
We paid probably $500-600 for the lot and Dujac alone runs about $200
retail. It helps that I seek out unpopular years ('70, '75 and '78 in
Bdx; '88 in Burgundy; '86 in the N Rhone) and lesser-known producers
(DeMontille, Lafon, Anne Gros, Clape, Verset, Ducru, Montrose,
Gruaud-Larose), but that's how my tastes run anyway

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Aug 21, 4:20�pm, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
>
>
>
>
> �wardy > wrote:
> > On Aug 19, 8:36�pm, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> > > In article
> > > >,
>
> > > �"Bi!!" > wrote:
> > > > I got together with some friends this weekend to blind taste a group
> > > > of somewhat "cult" styled wines. �We started with a couple of whites
> > > > then migrated through a bunch of "trophy" wines. �My brief notes
> > > > follow:
>
> > > > 2005 Sine Qua Non Petition-Viognier, Roussane, Chardonnay blend: Oily,
> > > > opulent, aromatic, honeyed and flowery with a good lemony chardonnay
> > > > base.
>
> > > > 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay-Quite Burgundian with a fair amount of
> > > > stones and lemon peel. �Less wood than previous Kongsgaard with a
> > > > bright acidity.
>
> > > > 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay "The Judge"-This is Kongsgaard's ultra
> > > > premium Chardonnay. �Very similar to the regular bottling but on
> > > > steroids. �Mouthfilling rich fruit yet quite elegant and Burgundian.
> > > > More lemon curd than lemon peel.
>
> > > > 2003 Grace Family Cabernet-the nose was of pine and mint. �Lighter in
> > > > style than anticipated. �Medium bodied, red fruits and exotic spice
> > > > nice balance and food friendly.
>
> > > > 1994 Diamond Creek Lake-My third tasting of this wine this year. �This
> > > > bottle showed much more age than previous bottles. �Very similar to
> > > > older Bordeaux, lead pencil, cedar, leather and tobacco with a fair
> > > > amount of cassis. �Some thought it was a ringer and that we were
> > > > drinking '90 Mouton.
>
> > > > 2003 Colgin Cabernet-Thick heavy blackberry syrup. �Too much oak and
> > > > fruit concentration for my taste. �High alcohol heat on the palate.
> > > > This was one glass was enough for an evening it was so over the top..
>
> > > > 2004 Marcassin Blue Slide Pinot Noir-Very ripe, I mistook it for a
> > > > grenache-syrah based California wine. �Extremely plummy and blueberry
> > > > fruity. �Very candied and thick as syrup. �Very little to connect it
> > > > with Pinot Noir.
>
> > > > 2005 Winter Cabernet-This wine was new to me. �Quite refined and well
> > > > within itself. �Nicely structured. �Cassis, a bit of smoke, blackberry
> > > > and plum. �Smooth rich tannins. �A wine to watch for.

In article
>,
"Bi!!" > wrote:

> On Aug 21, 4:20?pm, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> > In article
> > >,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ?wardy > wrote:
> > > On Aug 19, 8:36?pm, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > >,
> >
> > > > ?"Bi!!" > wrote:
> > > > > I got together with some friends this weekend to blind taste a group
> > > > > of somewhat "cult" styled wines. ?We started with a couple of whites
> > > > > then migrated through a bunch of "trophy" wines. ?My brief notes
> > > > > follow:
> >
> > > > > 2005 Sine Qua Non Petition-Viognier, Roussane, Chardonnay blend: Oily,
> > > > > opulent, aromatic, honeyed and flowery with a good lemony chardonnay
> > > > > base.
> >
> > > > > 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay-Quite Burgundian with a fair amount of
> > > > > stones and lemon peel. ?Less wood than previous Kongsgaard with a
> > > > > bright acidity.
> >
> > > > > 2005 Kongsgaard Chardonnay "The Judge"-This is Kongsgaard's ultra
> > > > > premium Chardonnay. ?Very similar to the regular bottling but on
> > > > > steroids. ?Mouthfilling rich fruit yet quite elegant and Burgundian.
> > > > > More lemon curd than lemon peel.
> >
> > > > > 2003 Grace Family Cabernet-the nose was of pine and mint. ?Lighter in
> > > > > style than anticipated. ?Medium bodied, red fruits and exotic spice
> > > > > nice balance and food friendly.
> >
> > > > > 1994 Diamond Creek Lake-My third tasting of this wine this year. ?This
> > > > > bottle showed much more age than previous bottles. ?Very similar to
> > > > > older Bordeaux, lead pencil, cedar, leather and tobacco with a fair
> > > > > amount of cassis. ?Some thought it was a ringer and that we were
> > > > > drinking '90 Mouton.
> >
> > > > > 2003 Colgin Cabernet-Thick heavy blackberry syrup. ?Too much oak and
> > > > > fruit concentration for my taste. ?High alcohol heat on the palate.
> > > > > This was one glass was enough for an evening it was so over the top.
> >
> > > > > 2004 Marcassin Blue Slide Pinot Noir-Very ripe, I mistook it for a
> > > > > grenache-syrah based California wine. ?Extremely plummy and blueberry
> > > > > fruity. ?Very candied and thick as syrup. ?Very little to connect it
> > > > > with Pinot Noir.
> >
> > > > > 2005 Winter Cabernet-This wine was new to me. ?Quite refined and well
> > > > > within itself. ?Nicely structured. ?Cassis, a bit of smoke, blackberry
> > > > > and plum. ?Smooth rich tannins. ?A wine to watch for.
> >
> > > > > 2002 Harlan Estate-Much is written about Harlan...I'm not sure why.
> > > > > It smelled and tasted like cherry cough syrup to me. ?Very lush, very
> > > > > massive juicy fruit and plenty of oaky vanilla. ?Not my style.
> >
> > > > > 1998 Shafer Hillside Select-Ahhhhhh reality sets in. ?Plenty of
> > > > > mineral and stones on the nose with a pure black fruit aroma. ?Well
> > > > > balanced and still youthful with deep rich black currant, a bit of
> > > > > spicy oak but overall a terrific example of Napa Cabernet.
> >
> > > > > 2003 Sloan Cabernet-Fruit by Abreu, made by Aubert. ?Very rich and
> > > > > ripe. ?SLeek and clena yet far too much concentration. ?Very "grapey"
> > > > > and "plummy" not much elegance just pure power.
> >
> > > > > 1997 Araujo Eisile Cabernet-WOTN-Classic in style with a nose of sweet
> > > > > black fruits and berries with a hint of Napa dust. ?Medium weight on
> > > > > the palate. ?A melange of black fruits, black cherry, plum and
> > > > > blackberry. ?Perfectly aged and ready to drink. ?Totally balanced.
> >
> > > > > 1996 Dalle Valle Maya-Big, dark and brooding. ?Still very young.
> > > > > Sharp nose of lead pencil, black pepper and black dirt. ?Medium heavy
> > > > > with black coffee, cocoa and spice notes. ?Plenty of rich cassis and
> > > > > currant flavors.
> >
> > > > Nice tasting. Not too much under $200 per bottle. I have to say that I
> > > > have nor or am not likely taste any of these- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > > > - Show quoted text -
> >
> > > I was of the same opinion some years ago, but I been buying a
> > > proportion of my cellar at auction and if you look carefully you can
> > > pick up some real bargains. If you get the chance check out my <a
> > > href=?http://www.orderwineonlineblog.com?>Order Wine Online</a> blog.
> >
> > Can you really find bargains on these? I guess it all depends what you
> > consider a bargain. Marcassin and Kongaards tend to run over $200 per
> > bottle. Shafer is usually affordable but still expensive. Sine qua non
> > also tends to run on the high side of $150 per bottle. Same with the
> > other Cabs listed here. What auction site do you use?- Hide quoted text -
> >
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Winesearcher shows a number of loctions selling Kongsgaard Cab for
> $130 and 2004 Shafer Hillside Select for $250-$300.

Yes, I went through lists on winebid and Winecommune and found that some
of my numbers were off but still these are very high prices and I'm not
sure how justified they would be if many of these weren't cult wines.
And several Kongsgaard wines are way over $300.

In article >,
Mark Lipton > wrote:

> Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
>
> > Can you really find bargains on these? I guess it all depends what you
> > consider a bargain. Marcassin and Kongaards tend to run over $200 per
> > bottle. Shafer is usually affordable but still expensive. Sine qua non
> > also tends to run on the high side of $150 per bottle. Same with the
> > other Cabs listed here. What auction site do you use?
>
> Good question, Larry. My experience in the auction market (mostly with
> Hart Davis Hart in Chicago) is that CalCabs tend to fetch fairly high
> prices, as do first and supersecond growths and DRC. OTOH, the wines I
> seek out (older Bdx, N Rhones, older Burgs, all from "under the radar"
> producers) are generally had at about 50-60% of retail. Probably our
> all-time best purchase was a mixed lot of 10 '88 Grand Cru Cote de Nuits
> Burgs, including Dujac's '88 Clos de la Roche and various Chambertins.
> We paid probably $500-600 for the lot and Dujac alone runs about $200
> retail. It helps that I seek out unpopular years ('70, '75 and '78 in
> Bdx; '88 in Burgundy; '86 in the N Rhone) and lesser-known producers
> (DeMontille, Lafon, Anne Gros, Clape, Verset, Ducru, Montrose,
> Gruaud-Larose), but that's how my tastes run anyway
>
> Mark Lipton

My preference is there too but I don't have access to auctions except
online and I don't see the great bargains there and I'm not always sure
of the provenance after receiving two Vieux Telegraphe wines with pushed
corks not in the summer.

Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

> My preference is there too but I don't have access to auctions except
> online and I don't see the great bargains there and I'm not always sure
> of the provenance after receiving two Vieux Telegraphe wines with pushed
> corks not in the summer.

Sadly, Virginia is even a worse state for wine shipping than Indiana
now. However, an operation like Hart Davis Hart will, I think, ship
even to VA using some legal sleight of hand. I will only deal with
established auction houses with sterling reputations for just the
reasons that you state. Winebid and winecommune strike me as just too
risky re provenance.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

In article >,
Mark Lipton > wrote:

> Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
>
> > My preference is there too but I don't have access to auctions except
> > online and I don't see the great bargains there and I'm not always sure
> > of the provenance after receiving two Vieux Telegraphe wines with pushed
> > corks not in the summer.
>
> Sadly, Virginia is even a worse state for wine shipping than Indiana
> now. However, an operation like Hart Davis Hart will, I think, ship
> even to VA using some legal sleight of hand. I will only deal with
> established auction houses with sterling reputations for just the
> reasons that you state. Winebid and winecommune strike me as just too
> risky re provenance.
>
> Mark Lipton

I will try Hart Davis and Hart and see if they will ship to Virginia.

On Aug 22, 2:01�pm, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> In article >,
> �Mark Lipton > wrote:
>
> > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
>
> > > My preference is there too but I don't have access to auctions except
> > > online and I don't see the great bargains there and I'm not always sure
> > > of the provenance after receiving two Vieux Telegraphe wines with pushed
> > > corks not in the summer.
>
> > Sadly, Virginia is even a worse state for wine shipping than Indiana
> > now. �However, an operation like Hart Davis Hart will, I think, ship
> > even to VA using some legal sleight of hand. �I will only deal with
> > established auction houses with sterling reputations for just the
> > reasons that you state. �Winebid and winecommune strike me as just too
> > risky re provenance.
>
> > Mark Lipton
>
> �I will try Hart Davis and Hart and see if they will ship to Virginia.

I've bought a bit from Aker Merrill online auctions and so far the
provenence has been excellent. I just bought a case of 2001 Domaine
de Chevalier Blanc for $50/bottle including buyers premium but not
including shipping.

In article >,
Mark Lipton > wrote:

> Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
>
> > My preference is there too but I don't have access to auctions except
> > online and I don't see the great bargains there and I'm not always sure
> > of the provenance after receiving two Vieux Telegraphe wines with pushed
> > corks not in the summer.
>
> Sadly, Virginia is even a worse state for wine shipping than Indiana
> now. However, an operation like Hart Davis Hart will, I think, ship
> even to VA using some legal sleight of hand. I will only deal with
> established auction houses with sterling reputations for just the
> reasons that you state. Winebid and winecommune strike me as just too
> risky re provenance.
>
> Mark Lipton

Thanks. The catalogue for the Fox auction is the most impressive I have
ever seen. There must be $10-20 M of wine there though little I could
afford to buy as the cheapest case is about $1K

Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

> Thanks. The catalogue for the Fox auction is the most impressive I have
> ever seen. There must be $10-20 M of wine there though little I could
> afford to buy as the cheapest case is about $1K

I hear you. As valued ex-customers, we got it in hardcover last night
so it was my bedtime reading. Impressive, yes; appealing, not so much.
It's the first HDH auction where I couldn't find one lot to bid on.
Usually, there are at least a half dozen worth my consideration, but not
this one. Now, if I had a spare $10K kicking around, it might be a
different story.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

In article
>,
"Bi!!" > wrote:

> On Aug 22, 2:01?pm, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> > In article >,
> > ?Mark Lipton > wrote:
> >
> > > Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
> >
> > > > My preference is there too but I don't have access to auctions except
> > > > online and I don't see the great bargains there and I'm not always sure
> > > > of the provenance after receiving two Vieux Telegraphe wines with pushed
> > > > corks not in the summer.
> >
> > > Sadly, Virginia is even a worse state for wine shipping than Indiana
> > > now. ?However, an operation like Hart Davis Hart will, I think, ship
> > > even to VA using some legal sleight of hand. ?I will only deal with
> > > established auction houses with sterling reputations for just the
> > > reasons that you state. ?Winebid and winecommune strike me as just too
> > > risky re provenance.
> >
> > > Mark Lipton
> >
> > ?I will try Hart Davis and Hart and see if they will ship to Virginia.
>
> I've bought a bit from Aker Merrill online auctions and so far the
> provenence has been excellent. I just bought a case of 2001 Domaine
> de Chevalier Blanc for $50/bottle including buyers premium but not
> including shipping.

I can't seem to find Aker Merrill. do you happen to know their site?

Lawrence Leichtman wrote:

> I can't seem to find Aker Merrill. do you happen to know their site?

Typo: It's Acker Merrill Condit:

http://www.ackerwines.com/

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Aug 22, 2:28�pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
> > Thanks. The catalogue for the Fox auction is the most impressive I have
> > ever seen. There must be $10-20 M of wine there though little I could
> > afford to buy as the cheapest case is about $1K
>
> I hear you. �As valued ex-customers, we got it in hardcover last night
> so it was my bedtime reading. �Impressive, yes; appealing, not so much.
> �It's the first HDH auction where I couldn't find one lot to bid on.
> Usually, there are at least a half dozen worth my consideration, but not
> this one. �Now, if I had a spare $10K kicking around, it might be a
> different story.
>
> Mark Lipton
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

I had exact same reaction. Didn't actually look through all the lots,
but scanned the summaries and realized there would be nothing I could
afford. Don't need to see estimates if the only wines they have in
what I think of as undervalued vintages are Petrus and Latour.

As to your comment in another post in this thread, I actually do
sometimes buy from Winebid, and (less frequently) WineCommune. My
strategy is generally to look for wines that aren't trophies (lots of
those '82 1st and 2nds have traded a lot, so more likely to have seen
bad storage) but the things that real winelovers hold on to. If
someone bothered to hold '86 Meyney, 79 DDC or du Tertre, 70 Canon, or
a '93 Savigny, probably stored ok. Pay strict attention to bottle
condition (damp stained labels are a PLUS for me in lower end
bottles), and bid low. At WC you'd also need to pay attention to
sellers history. I don't buy expensive stuff there, but some good
deals for $20-50. At Winebid it pays to keep track of shipping
schedule.

That said, I'm much more likely to spend more than $50/bottle at HDH,
Zachys, or Acker. Actually someone I respect recently recommended
Bonhams, but I have never bid.

In article >,
Mark Lipton > wrote:

> Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
>
> > I can't seem to find Aker Merrill. do you happen to know their site?
>
> Typo: It's Acker Merrill Condit:
>
> http://www.ackerwines.com/
>
> Mark Lipton

Yep found it thanks though they don't seem to have any current auctions.

On Aug 22, 2:28�pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Lawrence Leichtman wrote:
> > Thanks. The catalogue for the Fox auction is the most impressive I have
> > ever seen. There must be $10-20 M of wine there though little I could
> > afford to buy as the cheapest case is about $1K
>
> I hear you. �As valued ex-customers, we got it in hardcover last night
> so it was my bedtime reading. �Impressive, yes; appealing, not so much.
> �It's the first HDH auction where I couldn't find one lot to bid on.
> Usually, there are at least a half dozen worth my consideration, but not
> this one. �Now, if I had a spare $10K kicking around, it might be a
> different story.
>
> Mark Lipton
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Try the online auction list. You're looking at one of the live
auctions done at Cru or Daniel but the online auctions have plenty of
stuff at lower starting values...sometime a gem can be found.

Bi!! wrote:

> Try the online auction list. You're looking at one of the live
> auctions done at Cru or Daniel but the online auctions have plenty of
> stuff at lower starting values...sometime a gem can be found.

Bill,
Was that supposed to be addessed to me? I was talking about the
current auction at Hart Davis Hart, not Acker. FWIW, if you haven't
seen the auction catalogue at HDH for the "Fox" auction, you should:

http://www.hdhwine.com

It's billed as the largest-ever auction of Lafite, and I have no reason
to doubt them. It's an enormous selection of 1st growth Bdx
principally. My major problem, beyond cost, is that it's almost all
solid cases and I much prefer mixed lots for the variety. YMMV, of course.

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Aug 22, 5:24�pm, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Bi!! wrote:
> > Try the online auction list. �You're looking at one of the live
> > auctions done at Cru or Daniel but the online auctions have plenty of
> > stuff at lower starting values...sometime a gem can be found.
>
> Bill,
> � �Was that supposed to be addessed to me? �I was talking about the
> current auction at Hart Davis Hart, not Acker. �FWIW, if you haven't
> seen the auction catalogue at HDH for the "Fox" auction, you should:
>
> http://www.hdhwine.com
>
> It's billed as the largest-ever auction of Lafite, and I have no reason
> to doubt them. �It's an enormous selection of 1st growth Bdx
> principally. �My major problem, beyond cost, is that it's almost all
> solid cases and I much prefer mixed lots for the variety. �YMMV, of course.
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Yes, I realized after I had sent it what auction you were referring
to. Thanks for the heads up I'll check the HDH site.