Would I get them from using merlot/red wine vinegar?

wrote:
> Would I get them from using merlot/red wine vinegar?


Quite separate from whether you'll get them (which I doubt), /why/
would you want to? Are you really willing to drink two to three glasses
of vinegar a day?

wrote:
> Would I get them from using merlot/red wine vinegar?

Good question! Speaking as a researcher with an interest in resveratrol
(one of the health-conferring components of red wine), I can't see much
reason why red wine vinegar wouldn't also contain it. However, the
amount of resveratrol needed for the effects would require you to
consume *huge* amounts of vinegar, and recent studies also suggest that
the tannins of red wine, typically absent from vinegar may be an even
more important factor.

HTH
Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
> Mark Lipton wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> Would I get them from using merlot/red wine vinegar?
>>
>> Good question! Speaking as a researcher with an interest in resveratrol
>> (one of the health-conferring components of red wine), I can't see much
>> reason why red wine vinegar wouldn't also contain it. However, the
>> amount of resveratrol needed for the effects would require you to
>> consume *huge* amounts of vinegar, and recent studies also suggest that
>> the tannins of red wine, typically absent from vinegar may be an even
>> more important factor.
>
> Er, Mark, I understand the issue of drinking gallons of vinegar (or wine
> for that matter), but would not red wine vinegar have its tannins intact?


Mike, to consume that much vinegar, I think that would make one a "Douche
Bag". :-)

Mike Tommasi wrote:

> Er, Mark, I understand the issue of drinking gallons of vinegar (or wine
> for that matter), but would not red wine vinegar have its tannins intact?

Have you encountered tannic vinegars, Mike? As I was writing that, I
thought about balsamico, but even then I don't get any astringency to
speak of. Do you have a different experience?

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Mark Lipton > wrote:

>> Er, Mark, I understand the issue of drinking gallons of vinegar
>> (or wine for that matter), but would not red wine vinegar have
>> its tannins intact?

> Have you encountered tannic vinegars, Mike? As I was writing
> that, I thought about balsamico, but even then I don't get any
> astringency to speak of. Do you have a different experience?

True Balsamico starts from white wine must, not red. Cheap
imitations are coloured. So no wonder there's no astringency.

M.

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

>> True Balsamico starts from white wine must, not red. Cheap
>> imitations are coloured. So no wonder there's no astringency.

> Well, in fact the grapes used are red and white, but they are
> crushed softly (by foot ideally) and not macerated nor
> fermented, so there is very little tannin or colour extraction.
>
> Grapes are according to the DOP appellation rules the local ones
> to Reggio and Modena:
> Lambrusco (all varieties and clones: Marani, Salamino, Maestri,
> Montericco, Sorbara,Ancellotta);
> Trebbiano
> Spergola
> Sauvignon
> Sgavetta
> Berzemino
> Occhio di Gatto.
>
> Some are white :-)

Mille grazie, Michele!

And while we're at it, what's the correct pronunciation of the
town of Bassano del Grappa: B'assano or Bass'ano, the stress on
the first or on the second syllable?

M.

On Aug 18, 8:25*am, "Richard Neidich" > wrote:
> "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Mark Lipton wrote:
> >> wrote:
> >>> Would I get them from using merlot/red wine vinegar?
>
> >> Good question! *Speaking as a researcher with an interest inresveratrol
> >> (one of the health-conferring components of red wine), I can't see much
> >> reason why red wine vinegar wouldn't also contain it. *However, the
> >> amount ofresveratrolneeded for the effects would require you to
> >> consume *huge* amounts of vinegar, and recent studies also suggest that
> >> the tannins of red wine, typically absent from vinegar may be an even
> >> more important factor.
>
> > Er, Mark, I understand the issue of drinking gallons of vinegar (or wine
> > for that matter), but would not red wine vinegar have its tannins intact?
>
> Mike, to consume that much vinegar, I think that would make one a "Douche
> Bag". * :-)

Resveratrol can help you to lead a long and healthy life so says Dr.
Oz.
Red and wine alone does not supply enough resveratrol to achieve the
full range of benefits. You need to take high potency resveratrol
supplements to achieve the results documented in scientific studies.
Resveratrol Supplements can also help you control your weight
naturally
by increasing energy, reducing cravings, and limiting your appetite.
According to Wikipedia, Consumer Lab, an independent dietary
supplement and over the counter products evaluation organization,
published a report on 13 November 2007 on the popular resveratrol
supplements. The organization reported that there exists a wide range
in quality, dose, and price among the 13 resveratrol products
evaluated. The actual amount of resveratrol contained in the
different brands range from 2.2mg for Revatrol, which claimed to have
400mg of "Red Wine Grape Complex", to 500mg for Biotivia.com
Transmax,
which is consistent with the amount claimed on the product's label.
Prices per 100mg of resveratrol ranged from less than $.30 for
products made by Biotivia.com, jarrow, and country life, to a high of
$45.27 for the Revatrol brand.

futurespeak wrote:

> Red and wine alone does not supply enough resveratrol to achieve the
> full range of benefits. You need to take high potency resveratrol
> supplements to achieve the results documented in scientific studies.
> Resveratrol Supplements can also help you control your weight
> naturally
> by increasing energy, reducing cravings, and limiting your appetite.

You are correct that the doses of resveratrol used in most of the in
vivo studies are far in excess of what one can receive by drinking
moderate quantities of wine (or even indeed immoderate quantities ;-)).
But there is little peer-reviewed scientific evidence to suggest that
resveratrol supplements can produce the sort of health benefits
associated with red wine. In fact, there's good reason to be skeptical
of such an idea: resveratrol has been shown to be rapidly metabolized in
the liver, resulting in a loss of activity, but there are other
compounds present in red wine (gentein e.g.) that inhibit the metabolism
of resveratrol, rendering it more potent. So, resveratrol on its own
may be substantially less active than the resveratrol present in wine.

More to the point, because resveratrol is classified as a nutritional
supplement, it is not subject to the FDA rules for clinical trials and
efficacy studies. I have no doubt that such will be done regardless,
but as of now no one is really sure just what the health effects of
resveratrol taken in pill form are (or are not).

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

"Mark Lipton" wrote .....
>
> In fact, there's good reason to be skeptical....
> resveratrol has been shown to be rapidly metabolized in
> the liver, resulting in a loss of activity, but there are other
> compounds present in red wine (gentein e.g.) that inhibit the metabolism
> of resveratrol, rendering it more potent. So, resveratrol on its own
> may be substantially less active than the resveratrol present in wine.
>


Hmmm - so what you are suggesting Prof is that *if* one should take
resveratrol supplements, they should be taken with red wine ;-)))

st.helier

st.helier wrote:
> "Mark Lipton" wrote .....
>> In fact, there's good reason to be skeptical....
>> resveratrol has been shown to be rapidly metabolized in
>> the liver, resulting in a loss of activity, but there are other
>> compounds present in red wine (gentein e.g.) that inhibit the metabolism
>> of resveratrol, rendering it more potent. So, resveratrol on its own
>> may be substantially less active than the resveratrol present in wine.
>>
>
>
> Hmmm - so what you are suggesting Prof is that *if* one should take
> resveratrol supplements, they should be taken with red wine ;-)))

Yup. BTW, that name should have been genistein.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Aug 18, 11:50�am, Mark Lipton > wrote:
> Mike Tommasi wrote:
> > Er, Mark, I understand the issue of drinking gallons of vinegar (or wine
> > for that matter), but would not red wine vinegar have its tannins intact?
>
> Have you encountered tannic vinegars, Mike? �As I was writing that, I
> thought about balsamico, but even then I don't get any astringency to
> speak of. �Do you have a different experience?
>
> Mark Lipton
>
> --
> alt.food.wine FAQ: �http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

My red wine vinegar is so potent that I doubt anyone could drink
enough to figure out if it was tannic. But I'd assume as a lot of
beefy reds make it into the mix, there would be tannins. Else where do
they go?

DaleW wrote:

> My red wine vinegar is so potent that I doubt anyone could drink
> enough to figure out if it was tannic. But I'd assume as a lot of
> beefy reds make it into the mix, there would be tannins. Else where do
> they go?

Because wine vinegar is aged aerobically, I'd expect the tannins to
oxidize and precipitate as sediment. Vinegar sediment is probably not
very evident due to the other solids that develop. And don't count on
your vinegar being undrinkable. When I was a pup, we'd go to a local
Berkeley winery ("The Oak Barrel" -- probably remembered by a few such
as Max H) and buy their homemade "Special Red Wine Vinegar." As part of
that ritual, I'd get to try the vinegar in a small paper cup and drink
an ounce or so of it -- for pleasure. I still love sour things (and
bitter and salty and of course umami) though I don't generally drink
vinegar any more, as does Jean. Recently, Andrew has started eating
anything pickled or dressed in vinegar, too. Genetics at work?

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 16:40:36 -0400, Mark Lipton >
wrote:

>> My red wine vinegar is so potent that I doubt anyone could drink
>> enough to figure out if it was tannic.
Same for mine.

>> beefy reds make it into the mix, there would be tannins. Else where do
>> they go?
>
>Because wine vinegar is aged aerobically, I'd expect the tannins to
>oxidize and precipitate as sediment

That's certainly what happens in my vinegar maker. Quite apart from
the glop of dead acetobacter, there's a VERY heavy black sediment. I
can't say that I'm heavily into drinking several glasses of the stuff
a day, but I can't say I've noticed much tannin in it.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

Michael Pronay cared to write:

> And while we're at it, what's the correct pronunciation of the
> town of Bassano del Grappa: B'assano or Bass'ano, the stress on
> the first or on the second syllable?

I can help out:
All places in upper Italy by the name of Bassano (Bassano [VA], Rifugio
Bassano, Bassano Bresciano and Bassano del Grappa) are stressed on the
penultimate vovel, i.e., Bassàno.

(FYI, there's a reliable [and nearly official] source: The "atlante
stradale d'Italia" published by the Touring Club d'Italia will print
accents on any name that deviates from the "standard" Italian procedure
of stressing the next-to-last vowel.)

Helmut
--
Expect no more lines after this

"Helmut P. Einfalt" >
wrote:

>> And while we're at it, what's the correct pronunciation of the
>> town of Bassano del Grappa: B'assano or Bass'ano, the stress on
>> the first or on the second syllable?

> I can help out:
> All places in upper Italy by the name of Bassano (Bassano [VA],
> Rifugio Bassano, Bassano Bresciano and Bassano del Grappa) are
> stressed on the penultimate vovel, i.e., Bassàno.
>
> (FYI, there's a reliable [and nearly official] source: The
> "atlante stradale d'Italia" published by the Touring Club
> d'Italia will print accents on any name that deviates from the
> "standard" Italian procedure of stressing the next-to-last
> vowel.)

Wos Du net alles waaßt ... thank you!

M.

I would think so. you can drink purple (concord) grape juice and get similar health benefits.

Here is a link for more detail

On Aug 25, 11:30*pm, davis > wrote:
> I would think so. you can drink purple (concord) grape juice and get
> similar health benefits.
>
> Here is a link for more detail
>
> --
> davis


Concerning grape juice, there is such a thing as RED grape juice which
is not the same as regular (purple) grape juice.

wrote:
> On Aug 25, 11:30 pm, davis > wrote:
>
>>I would think so. you can drink purple (concord) grape juice and get
>>similar health benefits.
>>

>
> Concerning grape juice, there is such a thing as RED grape juice which
> is not the same as regular (purple) grape juice.
>

But grape juice has been shown to contain far less resveratrol -- the
compound most often implicated in the health benefits ascribed to red
wine -- than wine does. The alcohol of fermentation extracts much of
the resveratrol out of the skins of the grapes, something that
unfermented grape juice can't accomplish. There are other reports,
however, suggesting that tannins might be responsible for at least one
aspect of red wine's health benefits, but again grape juice is far less
tannic than red wine for the reasons I described above.

Mark Lipton
--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Mark Lipton wrote:

> wrote:
>> On Aug 25, 11:30 pm, davis
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>I would think so. you can drink purple
>>>(concord) grape juice and get similar health
>>>benefits.
>>>
>
>>
>> Concerning grape juice, there is such a thing
>> as RED grape juice which is not the same as
>> regular (purple) grape juice.
>>
>
> But grape juice has been shown to contain far
> less resveratrol -- the compound most often
> implicated in the health benefits ascribed to
> red
> wine -- than wine does. The alcohol of
> fermentation extracts much of the resveratrol
> out of the skins of the grapes, something that
> unfermented grape juice can't accomplish. There
> are other reports, however, suggesting that
> tannins might be responsible for at least one
> aspect of red wine's health benefits, but again
> grape juice is far less tannic than red wine for
> the reasons I described above.
>
> Mark Lipton

Just plain ole alcohol has health benefits when
used in moderation. It is an excellent vaso
dilator which lowers blood pressure. It ain't
found in grape juice.

Paul E. Lehmann wrote:

> Just plain ole alcohol has health benefits when
> used in moderation. It is an excellent vaso
> dilator which lowers blood pressure. It ain't
> found in grape juice.
>

Absolutely true, Paul, but most studies also find that red wine extends
health benefits beyond what you get with grain alcohol.

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.cwdjr.net

Paul wrote on Sun, 31 Aug 2008 09:54:00 -0400:

>> wrote:
>>> On Aug 25, 11:30 pm, davis
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would think so. you can drink purple
>>>> (concord) grape juice and get similar health
>>>> benefits.
>>>>
>>> Concerning grape juice, there is such a thing
>>> as RED grape juice which is not the same as
>>> regular (purple) grape juice.
>>>
>> But grape juice has been shown to contain far
>> less resveratrol -- the compound most often
>> implicated in the health benefits ascribed to
>> red
>> wine -- than wine does. The alcohol of
>> fermentation extracts much of the resveratrol
>> out of the skins of the grapes, something that
>> unfermented grape juice can't accomplish. There
>> are other reports, however, suggesting that
>> tannins might be responsible for at least one
>> aspect of red wine's health benefits, but again
>> grape juice is far less tannic than red wine for
>> the reasons I described above.
>>
>> Mark Lipton


As far as I can tell, the "benefits" of Listerine mouthwash are due to
its 30% alcohol. I suspect that I should take a similar amount of Scotch
and swallow it! Much pleasanter than the "original' flavor Listerine
that attempts to reproduce the taste of Lord Lister's phenol solution
(don't be old fashioned and actually use phenol!)

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

On Aug 30, 11:32*am, wrote:
> On Aug 25, 11:30*pm, davis > wrote:
>
> > I would think so. you can drink purple (concord) grape juice and get
> > similar health benefits.
>
> > Here is a link for more detail
>
> > --
> > davis
>
> Concerning grape juice, there is such a thing as RED grape juice which
> is not the same as regular (purple) grape juice.


"Is Red Grape Juice Really the Answer to Our Ills?":

http://en.epochtimes.com/news/7-4-3/53703.html

In the end it really doesn't matter at all if you make your wine from a kit, in a UBrew store, at a vineyard you visit or just buy the wine pre-made. All wine comes from grapes - and it is those grapes that provide the health benefits. That and the alcohol The resveratrol comes from the grapes, not from the fermentation time or anything else. Resveratrol is an antioxidant, which I'm sure you've heard about as being very good for your system.

The American Cancer Society did a study of 500,000 patients. They found that those who drank 1-2 glasses of wine each day had a 20% less chance of death.

Anyway I have a ton of pages on wine and health -


but the basic gist is that the benefits come from the grapes, and from the alcohol. Any grape wine you make, whether from a kit or in a shop or at a vineyard, is going to be made with grapes as the raw material. So you're all set.

"Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
...
>
> I think wine should be enjoyed for what it is, anyone that drinks wine for
> health reasons is probably just gullible.

By blood doctor dealing with my high cholesterol told me to go home take the
statins he prescribed - and drink two glasses of red wine every day but no
beer.

I follow half the advice!

pk

PK wrote on Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:14:34 +0100:

> "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> I think wine should be enjoyed for what it is, anyone that
>> drinks wine for health reasons is probably just gullible.

> By blood doctor dealing with my high cholesterol told me to go
> home take the statins he prescribed - and drink two glasses
> of red wine every day but no beer.

> I follow half the advice!

I wonder what half? Statins or alcohol? By the way, I hope you don't run
into problems with the statins over the years. I took a regular dose for
8 years but developed muscle pains a year ago and had to stop.

--

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not

"James Silverton" > wrote in message
...
> PK wrote on Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:14:34 +0100:
>
>> "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>> I think wine should be enjoyed for what it is, anyone that
>>> drinks wine for health reasons is probably just gullible.
>
>> By blood doctor dealing with my high cholesterol told me to go
>> home take the statins he prescribed - and drink two glasses
>> of red wine every day but no beer.
>
>> I follow half the advice!
>
> I wonder what half? Statins or alcohol? By the way, I hope you don't run
> into problems with the statins over the years. I took a regular dose for 8
> years but developed muscle pains a year ago and had to stop.
>


I drink the wine - but did not stop the beer!

I've been on Lipitor for 10-plus years with no side effects - I aim to be
the first male in 2 generations of both sides of my family to see 70!,

pk

I was on lipitor for about 5 years and then had a reaction with muscle pain.
Did not initially show up on blood tests.

Drug does work well however and the muscle pain and reaction was probably
from something else. Meanwhile I was pulled because of the liver enzymes.

Really good drug if you can handle.
"PK" > wrote in message
...
> "James Silverton" > wrote in message
> ...
>> PK wrote on Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:14:34 +0100:
>>
>>> "Mike Tommasi" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>
>>>> I think wine should be enjoyed for what it is, anyone that
>>>> drinks wine for health reasons is probably just gullible.
>>
>>> By blood doctor dealing with my high cholesterol told me to go
>>> home take the statins he prescribed - and drink two glasses
>>> of red wine every day but no beer.
>>
>>> I follow half the advice!
>>
>> I wonder what half? Statins or alcohol? By the way, I hope you don't run
>> into problems with the statins over the years. I took a regular dose for
>> 8 years but developed muscle pains a year ago and had to stop.
>>
>
>
> I drink the wine - but did not stop the beer!
>
> I've been on Lipitor for 10-plus years with no side effects - I aim to be
> the first male in 2 generations of both sides of my family to see 70!,
>
> pk