Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
variations in bottles of the same case? For instance I have been
drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. Last night Bam! I was hit
with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! What's up with that?
It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
the case. No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
sweet.

JB

On Jul 24, 9:18*am, Ronin > wrote:
> Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
> variations in bottles of the same case? *For instance I have been
> drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
> light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. *Last night Bam! *I was hit
> with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! *What's up with that?
> *It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
> the case. *No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
> sweet.
>
> * * * * JB

There are many possible contributors to this phenomenon. You say that
there was no taint, but TCA (2,4,6-Trichloroanisole) can be present in
such small quantities that the amount of taint can vary.

It is also possible that the bottle was not properly gassed at
bottling. Introducing oxygen, as you know, can really affect a wine.

It could be that they packed a late harvest Zinfandel by mistake. I say that
because you said it tasted like Port.



"Agent Red" > wrote in message
...
On Jul 24, 9:18 am, Ronin > wrote:
> Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
> variations in bottles of the same case? For instance I have been
> drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
> light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. Last night Bam! I was hit
> with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! What's up with that?
> It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
> the case. No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
> sweet.
>
> JB

There are many possible contributors to this phenomenon. You say that
there was no taint, but TCA (2,4,6-Trichloroanisole) can be present in
such small quantities that the amount of taint can vary.

It is also possible that the bottle was not properly gassed at
bottling. Introducing oxygen, as you know, can really affect a wine.

"Ronin" > wrote in message
...
> Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
> variations in bottles of the same case? For instance I have been
> drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
> light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. Last night Bam! I was hit
> with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! What's up with that?
> It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
> the case. No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
> sweet.
>
> JB
>

I have no idea why there would be a bottle variation within the case. Sounds
like a nice surprise! But I am curious about Klick Zinfandel. Googled and
Wine Searchered, but nothing. Can you tell me a bit more about Klick? I was
intrigued by your description "elegant style like some Bordeaux".

On 2008-07-24 14:16:53 -0700, "Evan Keel" > said:

>
> "Ronin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
>> variations in bottles of the same case? For instance I have been
>> drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
>> light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. Last night Bam! I was hit
>> with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! What's up with that?
>> It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
>> the case. No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
>> sweet.
>>
>> JB
>>
>
> I have no idea why there would be a bottle variation within the case. Sounds
> like a nice surprise! But I am curious about Klick Zinfandel. Googled and
> Wine Searchered, but nothing. Can you tell me a bit more about Klick? I was
> intrigued by your description "elegant style like some Bordeaux".

Well, I like the flavour of zin, but I get tired of the "huge-er than
thou" style, and I was introduced to Klick by the restaurant "Zin" in
Healdsburg. What I'm drinking now is the 2005 Hamilton vinyard, Dry
Creek Valley. The label says Nice, CA, (on the North shore of
Clearlake, just NW of Healdsburg. Bottle Barn in Santa Rosa got it
for me.

"Ronin" > wrote in message
...
> On 2008-07-24 14:16:53 -0700, "Evan Keel" > said:
>
> >
> > "Ronin" > wrote in message
> > ...
> >> Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
> >> variations in bottles of the same case? For instance I have been
> >> drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
> >> light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. Last night Bam! I was hit
> >> with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! What's up with that?
> >> It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
> >> the case. No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
> >> sweet.
> >>
> >> JB
> >>
> >
> > I have no idea why there would be a bottle variation within the case.
Sounds
> > like a nice surprise! But I am curious about Klick Zinfandel. Googled
and
> > Wine Searchered, but nothing. Can you tell me a bit more about Klick? I
was
> > intrigued by your description "elegant style like some Bordeaux".
>
> Well, I like the flavour of zin, but I get tired of the "huge-er than
> thou" style, and I was introduced to Klick by the restaurant "Zin" in
> Healdsburg. What I'm drinking now is the 2005 Hamilton vinyard, Dry
> Creek Valley. The label says Nice, CA, (on the North shore of
> Clearlake, just NW of Healdsburg. Bottle Barn in Santa Rosa got it
> for me.
>
So Klick is the winemaker and Hamilton is the producer? The link to the
restaurant (Zin) times out. Thanks for the reference to the Bottle Barn. On
a mission for a case. I used to like the 14%+ Zins, but looking for
something with a little less body but still that brambly fruit.

Thanks....

Evan

On 2008-07-24 15:16:39 -0700, "Evan Keel" > said:

>
> "Ronin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On 2008-07-24 14:16:53 -0700, "Evan Keel" > said:
>>
>>>
>>> "Ronin" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
>>>> variations in bottles of the same case? For instance I have been
>>>> drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
>>>> light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. Last night Bam! I was hit
>>>> with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! What's up with that?
>>>> It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
>>>> the case. No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
>>>> sweet.
>>>>
>>>> JB
>>>>
>>>
>>> I have no idea why there would be a bottle variation within the case.
> Sounds
>>> like a nice surprise! But I am curious about Klick Zinfandel. Googled
> and
>>> Wine Searchered, but nothing. Can you tell me a bit more about Klick? I
> was
>>> intrigued by your description "elegant style like some Bordeaux".
>>
>> Well, I like the flavour of zin, but I get tired of the "huge-er than
>> thou" style, and I was introduced to Klick by the restaurant "Zin" in
>> Healdsburg. What I'm drinking now is the 2005 Hamilton vinyard, Dry
>> Creek Valley. The label says Nice, CA, (on the North shore of
>> Clearlake, just NW of Healdsburg. Bottle Barn in Santa Rosa got it
>> for me.
>>
> So Klick is the winemaker and Hamilton is the producer? The link to the
> restaurant (Zin) times out. Thanks for the reference to the Bottle Barn. On
> a mission for a case. I used to like the 14%+ Zins, but looking for
> something with a little less body but still that brambly fruit.
>
> Thanks....
>
> Evan

Klick is the winemaker, and he got his grapes from the Hamilton vinyard
in Dry Creek Valley, which is around Lake Sonoma, just West of
Geyeserville, CA (Just North of Healdsburg, CA)

You are quite welcome.

JB

On Jul 24, 1:18�pm, Ronin > wrote:
> Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
> variations in bottles of the same case? �For instance I have been
> drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
> light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. �Last night Bam! �I was hit
> with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! �What's up with that?
> �It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
> the case. �No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
> sweet.
>
> � � � � JB

Very interesting post/thread, thanks for starting. I am not among the
cognoscenti - I'm cognizant of my limitations - but have opinions
about a lot of things vinuous. I read your first sentence and began
preparing thoughts. But when I read your full post, most of my
possibilities (brett, TCA, other faulty cork issues such as oxidative
notes, heat, etc) were not real options.

Several bottles lighter and elegant, one richer and fuller is puzzling
(other way around might be slightly less so). My only thought then was
batch or barrel variation- it's possible that if they bottled barrel
by barrel or from different batches one could end up with a case with
an outlier from another barrel/batch. But your subsequent response
that this seems to be a small producer with a single vineyard bottling
makes that a lot less likely.

The only remaining possibility I see is some kind of food matching or
enviromental reason. You didn't have artichokes last night did
you?

I look forward to others' ideas.

On Jul 24, 8:03 pm, DaleW > wrote:
> On Jul 24, 1:18�pm, Ronin > wrote:
>
> > Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
> > variations in bottles of the same case? �For instance I have been
> > drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
> > light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. �Last night Bam! �I was hit
> > with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! �What's up with that?
> > �It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
> > the case. �No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
> > sweet.
>
> > � � � � JB
>
> Very interesting post/thread, thanks for starting. I am not among the
> cognoscenti - I'm cognizant of my limitations - but have opinions
> about a lot of things vinuous. I read your first sentence and began
> preparing thoughts. But when I read your full post, most of my
> possibilities (brett, TCA, other faulty cork issues such as oxidative
> notes, heat, etc) were not real options.
>
> Several bottles lighter and elegant, one richer and fuller is puzzling
> (other way around might be slightly less so). My only thought then was
> batch or barrel variation- it's possible that if they bottled barrel
> by barrel or from different batches one could end up with a case with
> an outlier from another barrel/batch. But your subsequent response
> that this seems to be a small producer with a single vineyard bottling
> makes that a lot less likely.
>
> The only remaining possibility I see is some kind of food matching or
> enviromental reason. You didn't have artichokes last night did
> you?
>
> I look forward to others' ideas.

Dale,
I had to same thoughts about the bottling. The only other variable I
can think of is some kind of volatile acidity. VA occurs in varying
degrees like TCA. The most extreme example actually fizzes when
poured.

Mark

Apart from all the factors mentioned by other posters, transport conditions
can also play a role: If a truck filled with cardboard boxes of wines stays
parked in the summer sun for a couple of hours, part of the load can be
exposed to uncomfortable temperatures.

Decades ago, when we still had cold winters in Europe, there have also been
rumors about wines "on the edges" of a lorry that had been spoiled by
temperatures below freezing...



Yves


"Ronin" > wrote in message
...
> Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
> variations in bottles of the same case? For instance I have been drinking
> out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a light "elegant"
> style like some Bordeaux. Last night Bam! I was hit with a bottle as
> SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! What's up with that? It was delicious,
> but certainly not like any of the other bottles in the case. No "taint"
> of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more sweet.
>
> JB
>

In article
>,
Mark Slater > wrote:

> On Jul 24, 8:03 pm, DaleW > wrote:
> > On Jul 24, 1:18?pm, Ronin > wrote:
> >
> > > Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
> > > variations in bottles of the same case? ?For instance I have been
> > > drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
> > > light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. ?Last night Bam! ?I was hit
> > > with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! ?What's up with that?
> > > ?It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
> > > the case. ?No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
> > > sweet.
> >
> > > ? ? ? ? JB
> >
> > Very interesting post/thread, thanks for starting. I am not among the
> > cognoscenti - I'm cognizant of my limitations - but have opinions
> > about a lot of things vinuous. I read your first sentence and began
> > preparing thoughts. But when I read your full post, most of my
> > possibilities (brett, TCA, other faulty cork issues such as oxidative
> > notes, heat, etc) were not real options.
> >
> > Several bottles lighter and elegant, one richer and fuller is puzzling
> > (other way around might be slightly less so). My only thought then was
> > batch or barrel variation- it's possible that if they bottled barrel
> > by barrel or from different batches one could end up with a case with
> > an outlier from another barrel/batch. But your subsequent response
> > that this seems to be a small producer with a single vineyard bottling
> > makes that a lot less likely.
> >
> > The only remaining possibility I see is some kind of food matching or
> > enviromental reason. You didn't have artichokes last night did
> > you?
> >
> > I look forward to others' ideas.
>
> Dale,
> I had to same thoughts about the bottling. The only other variable I
> can think of is some kind of volatile acidity. VA occurs in varying
> degrees like TCA. The most extreme example actually fizzes when
> poured.
>
> Mark

Good post Mark. VA is the more likely culprit than TCA IMHO. I am very
TCA sensitive so even coming near an open bottle makes me slightly
nauseous but VA can be subtle.

On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:18:38 -0700, Ronin >
wrote:

>Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
>variations in bottles of the same case? For instance I have been
>drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
>light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. Last night Bam! I was hit
>with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! What's up with that?
> It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
>the case. No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
>sweet.

I've read the various suggestions and the only one I find even vaguely
possible is a rogue bottle. VA can't make a normally dry subtle wine
taste like port, no way, José. Neither can TCA.

As for any reasonably likely barrel variation, surely, any winemaker
worth his salt will transfer all his barrels of a particular wine
into a blending vat to eliminate individual barrel variations.
Certainly that's standard practice in the great majority of wineries,
where they often use different oaks and barrel makers and toasts to
give a more complex final blend.

I think you got a rogue bottle, though goodness knows how.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

In article >,
IanH > wrote:

> On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:18:38 -0700, Ronin >
> wrote:
>
> >Do any of you cognescenti out there know why there may be drastic
> >variations in bottles of the same case? For instance I have been
> >drinking out of a case of Klick Zinfandel which has been made in a
> >light "elegant" style like some Bordeaux. Last night Bam! I was hit
> >with a bottle as SWIMBO said, tasted like a Port! What's up with that?
> > It was delicious, but certainly not like any of the other bottles in
> >the case. No "taint" of any sort, just more ripe and definitely more
> >sweet.
>
> I've read the various suggestions and the only one I find even vaguely
> possible is a rogue bottle. VA can't make a normally dry subtle wine
> taste like port, no way, José. Neither can TCA.
>
> As for any reasonably likely barrel variation, surely, any winemaker
> worth his salt will transfer all his barrels of a particular wine
> into a blending vat to eliminate individual barrel variations.
> Certainly that's standard practice in the great majority of wineries,
> where they often use different oaks and barrel makers and toasts to
> give a more complex final blend.
>
> I think you got a rogue bottle, though goodness knows how.
> --
> All the best
> Fatty from Forges

Ian, I totally agree with you. I guess I was just trying to play nice.
Usually, when there is that much bottle variation from one wine maker
and one vintage, there is something wrong in their bottling process.
What I have been seeing more and more are the mobile trucks that go from
winery to winery and this has actually cut down bottle variation. When I
see much of it, they are probably bottling it themselves and aren't as
fastidious as the mobile bottlers.

>
> I've read the various suggestions and the only one I find even vaguely
> possible is a rogue bottle. VA can't make a normally dry subtle wine
> taste like port, no way, José. Neither can TCA.
>
> As for any reasonably likely barrel variation, surely, any winemaker
> worth his salt will transfer all his barrels of a particular wine
> into a blending vat to eliminate individual barrel variations.
> Certainly that's standard practice in the great majority of wineries,
> where they often use different oaks and barrel makers and toasts to
> give a more complex final blend.
>
> I think you got a rogue bottle, though goodness knows how.

Well, that's what I thought. The first examples that I found wer in
cases of "Montepiano" (sic) "Tuscan style red wine" from Rabbit Ridge.
This was while they were closing their Healdsburg tasting room, and I
put it down to bottling the "bin ends" ($20/case of reasonable
everyday wine, who's to complain?) but I'd get 2-3 bottles that were
not like the others. But when I found an outlier in the Klick zin, I
thought I'd ask if anyone has had a similar experience, or knew of some
reason why...

Thanks, by the by, for the responses.