People who know I'm a wine geek invariably ask my opinion of their
"special wine."
I don't want to offend them by saying I don't like it (as is often,
sadly, the case) and
I end up hemming and hawing, trying to think of something positive to say.

This happened again this weekend, I was served some awful Bordeaux that
was made
by a cousin of the Hostess. She was really proud, but I thought it was
herbaceous but
at the same time over concentrated, with an addition of oak juice and
elmers glue. I
took a couple of sips politely but drank water with the rest of the
meal. (Got a headache
anyway, but maybe not down to the wine, although it had "headache" writ
large on the
label.)

She pressed me for an opinion so I waxed on about how wonderful it must
be to drink
juice produced by one's very own family. Blech.

What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their friends,
in these situations?
Is honesty really the best policy?

-E

Emery Davis > wrote in
:

> People who know I'm a wine geek invariably ask my opinion of their
> "special wine."
> I don't want to offend them by saying I don't like it (as is often,
> sadly, the case) and
> I end up hemming and hawing, trying to think of something positive to
> say.
>
> This happened again this weekend, I was served some awful Bordeaux
> that was made
> by a cousin of the Hostess. She was really proud, but I thought it
> was herbaceous but
> at the same time over concentrated, with an addition of oak juice and
> elmers glue. I
> took a couple of sips politely but drank water with the rest of the
> meal. (Got a headache
> anyway, but maybe not down to the wine, although it had "headache"
> writ large on the
> label.)
>
> She pressed me for an opinion so I waxed on about how wonderful it
> must be to drink
> juice produced by one's very own family. Blech.
>
> What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their friends,
> in these situations?
> Is honesty really the best policy?
>
> -E
>

I would try a music or art metaphor. Not everyone likes neo
contemporary,post modern deconstructed etc but somebody out there pays for
it. In this one you might say "My it is very concentrated!" I am oak averse
and that is one thing that I will point out, "You know we all have out
tasstes and I have never been big on oak so this just isn'my cup of tea- I
really like cubism you know?"

--
Joseph Coulter, cruises and vacations
www.josephcoulter.com

877 832 2021
904 631 8863 cell

Joseph Coulter wrote:
> Emery Davis > wrote in
> :
>
[]
>> What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their friends,
>> in these situations?
>> Is honesty really the best policy?
>>
>> -E
>>
>
> I would try a music or art metaphor. Not everyone likes neo
> contemporary,post modern deconstructed etc but somebody out there pays for
> it. In this one you might say "My it is very concentrated!" I am oak averse
> and that is one thing that I will point out, "You know we all have out
> tasstes and I have never been big on oak so this just isn'my cup of tea- I
> really like cubism you know?"
>
Heh, nice one. Knowing myself, I'd probably come out with "this reminds
me of the sound Pete Townsend gets when the guitar burns, just after
he's stomped it." Or maybe: "evokes the sound of a four year old
violin student."

-E

On Jun 30, 6:29�am, Emery Davis > wrote:
> People who know I'm a wine geek invariably ask my opinion of their
> "special wine."
> I don't want to offend them by saying I don't like it (as is often,
> sadly, the case) and
> I end up hemming and hawing, trying to think of something positive to say.
>
> This happened again this weekend, I was served some awful Bordeaux that
> was made
> by a cousin of the Hostess. �She was really proud, but I thought it was
> herbaceous but
> at the same time over concentrated, with an addition of oak juice and
> elmers glue. �I
> took a couple of sips politely but drank water with the rest of the
> meal. �(Got a headache
> anyway, but maybe not down to the wine, although it had "headache" writ
> large on the
> label.)
>
> She pressed me for an opinion so I waxed on about how wonderful it must
> be to drink
> juice produced by one's very own family. �Blech.
>
> What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their friends,
> in these situations?
> Is honesty really the best policy?
>
> -E

I'm usually pretty blunt. I usually comment on how hard it is to make
really good wine at home and that I wouldn't let an amateur remover\
my appendix.

On Jun 30, 6:29�am, Emery Davis > wrote:
> People who know I'm a wine geek invariably ask my opinion of their
> "special wine."
> I don't want to offend them by saying I don't like it (as is often,
> sadly, the case) and
> I end up hemming and hawing, trying to think of something positive to say..
>
> This happened again this weekend, I was served some awful Bordeaux that
> was made
> by a cousin of the Hostess. �She was really proud, but I thought it was
> herbaceous but
> at the same time over concentrated, with an addition of oak juice and
> elmers glue. �I
> took a couple of sips politely but drank water with the rest of the
> meal. �(Got a headache
> anyway, but maybe not down to the wine, although it had "headache" writ
> large on the
> label.)
>
> She pressed me for an opinion so I waxed on about how wonderful it must
> be to drink
> juice produced by one's very own family. �Blech.
>
> What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their friends,
> in these situations?
> Is honesty really the best policy?
>
> -E

I usually hem, haw, say something "wow, I'm really getting a lot of
vanilla (or herbs, or whatever)" , say things like "just like in
music, there are a lot of styles, no one likes all of them equally,
that doesn't mean they're better or worse." Still, some people get
offended because I don't like their Marquis-Phillips.

Emery Davis > wrote in
:

> Joseph Coulter wrote:
>> Emery Davis > wrote in
>> :
>>
> []
>>> What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their
>>> friends, in these situations?
>>> Is honesty really the best policy?
>>>
>>> -E
>>>
>>
>> I would try a music or art metaphor. Not everyone likes neo
>> contemporary,post modern deconstructed etc but somebody out there
>> pays for it. In this one you might say "My it is very concentrated!"
>> I am oak averse and that is one thing that I will point out, "You
>> know we all have out tasstes and I have never been big on oak so this
>> just isn'my cup of tea- I really like cubism you know?"
>>
> Heh, nice one. Knowing myself, I'd probably come out with "this
> reminds me of the sound Pete Townsend gets when the guitar burns, just
> after he's stomped it." Or maybe: "evokes the sound of a four year
> old violin student."
>
> -E
>

Jason Pollak? I can identify with the Pete Townsend however, though
potentially not as diplomatic as I had hoped for, it is on the money!

--
Joseph Coulter, cruises and vacations
www.josephcoulter.com

877 832 2021
904 631 8863 cell

Mike Tommasi wrote:
[]
> I believe you are talking about a cousin who actually makes wine as a
> business, not your "home made" stuff.
>

Yes, a drop from the ocean of bad commercial Bordeaux. It had a TVA
capsule, I didn't inquire about the price.

> With friends asking your opinion on an allegedly great wine that they
> picked just for you by asking "an expert" but turns out to be worse than
> the home made one of the previous paragraph, you say: "Mmm, I can tell
> this was done by a top oenologist, very interesting, now if only he had
> used grapes".
>
LOL. My problem usually occurs because they have genuinely convinced
themselves that they like it. And of course, Bordeaux is "good wine."

-E

On Jun 30, 11:51�am, Emery Davis > wrote:
> Mike Tommasi wrote:
>
> []
>
> > I believe you are talking about a cousin who actually makes wine as a
> > business, not your "home made" stuff.
>
> Yes, a drop from the ocean of bad commercial Bordeaux. �It had a TVA
> capsule, I didn't inquire about the price.
>
> > With friends asking your opinion on an allegedly great wine that they
> > picked just for you by asking "an expert" but turns out to be worse than
> > the home made one of the previous paragraph, you say: "Mmm, I can tell
> > this was done by a top oenologist, very interesting, now if only he had
> > used grapes".
>
> LOL. �My problem usually occurs because they have genuinely convinced
> themselves that they like it. �And of course, Bordeaux is "good wine."
>
> -E

I didn't realize that it was commercial wine. In that case I would
refer them to the Dale Scale and rate it a "C"

> What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their friends,
> in these situations?
> Is honesty really the best policy?
>
> -E

I usually hem, haw, say something "wow, I'm really getting a lot of
vanilla (or herbs, or whatever)" , say things like "just like in
music, there are a lot of styles, no one likes all of them equally,
that doesn't mean they're better or worse." Still, some people get
offended because I don't like their Marquis-Phillips.

My response is " rustic", " individual" and if really awful " what is the
encepage?"

JT

I usually simply tell them that the wine is not to my taste. They then get
to salvage themselves by thinking I obviously have lousy taste!!

Chuck

"Emery Davis" > wrote in message
...
> People who know I'm a wine geek invariably ask my opinion of their
> "special wine."
> I don't want to offend them by saying I don't like it (as is often, sadly,
> the case) and
> I end up hemming and hawing, trying to think of something positive to say.
>
> This happened again this weekend, I was served some awful Bordeaux that
> was made
> by a cousin of the Hostess. She was really proud, but I thought it was
> herbaceous but
> at the same time over concentrated, with an addition of oak juice and
> elmers glue. I
> took a couple of sips politely but drank water with the rest of the meal.
> (Got a headache
> anyway, but maybe not down to the wine, although it had "headache" writ
> large on the
> label.)
>
> She pressed me for an opinion so I waxed on about how wonderful it must be
> to drink
> juice produced by one's very own family. Blech.
>
> What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their friends, in
> these situations?
> Is honesty really the best policy?
>
> -E

Hi Emery,

On Mon, 30 Jun 2008 12:29:50 +0200, Emery Davis
> wrote:

>People who know I'm a wine geek invariably ask my opinion of their
>"special wine."

>Is honesty really the best policy?

I think it is. Though put as tactfully as one can. So in the case of
the Bordeaux as you described it, I may well saysomething like "This
isn't really my kind of wine, I'm afraid. I can see your cousin has
thought very hard about what he's doing, .(and then steer the
conversation into how long he's been winemaking and so on). But as
you rightly say the majority of French are completely blinded by the
dread words "Apellation Bordeaux Controlée" and think that's a
guarantee of a wonderful wine.

Sigh. I don't know how many bottles of Chateau Plonk I've been offered
in the last 20 years.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

"Emery Davis" > wrote in message
...
> People who know I'm a wine geek invariably ask my opinion of their
> "special wine."
> I don't want to offend them by saying I don't like it (as is often, sadly,
> the case) and
> I end up hemming and hawing, trying to think of something positive to say.
>
> This happened again this weekend, I was served some awful Bordeaux that
> was made
> by a cousin of the Hostess. She was really proud, but I thought it was
> herbaceous but
> at the same time over concentrated, with an addition of oak juice and
> elmers glue. I
> took a couple of sips politely but drank water with the rest of the meal.
> (Got a headache
> anyway, but maybe not down to the wine, although it had "headache" writ
> large on the
> label.)
>
> She pressed me for an opinion so I waxed on about how wonderful it must be
> to drink
> juice produced by one's very own family. Blech.
>
> What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their friends, in
> these situations?
> Is honesty really the best policy?
>
What do you say when it really is a home made wine, i.e., made from a
supermarket kit! A friend always took some of his kit wine to dinner
parties, with great pride, of course, but his wife always made a beeline for
the real stuff.
Graham

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:03:15 +0200, IanH > wrote:

>But as
>you rightly say the majority of French are completely blinded by the
>dread words "Apellation Bordeaux Controlée" and think that's a
>guarantee of a wonderful wine.

Is that really true? It would surprise me if it were. I think most
French probably have a pretty realistic view of generic Bordeaux. But
many punters outside of France may be more naive.

To the original question... I would usually say the wine is not to my
taste. The fact that a wine exists commercially is almost proof that
it is a question of taste, and there are very few circumstances where
I proclaim a wine to be BAD - they are usually wines that are faulty
or bordering on being faulty. Home-made wines are another issue.
Mercifuly I don't know anyone who indulges in that hobby ATM.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

"John T" > wrote:

> ... and if really awful "what is the encepage?"

Either "cépage" (grape variety) or "encépagement" (grape mix).
Please decide.

M.

I'd take a sip and ask the hostess if her cousin crushed the grapes with
his feet and then I'd suggest she should tell him to take off his sticky
smelly socks because the wine is only fit to be drank by Canadians.

> wrote in message
...
> I'd take a sip and ask the hostess if her cousin crushed the grapes with
> his feet and then I'd suggest she should tell him to take off his sticky
> smelly socks because the wine is only fit to be drank by Canadians.
>
Who could, perhaps, teach you English grammar!!

Steve Slatcher wrote:
> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:03:15 +0200, IanH > wrote:
>
>> But as
>> you rightly say the majority of French are completely blinded by the
>> dread words "Apellation Bordeaux Controlée" and think that's a
>> guarantee of a wonderful wine.
>
> Is that really true? It would surprise me if it were. I think most
> French probably have a pretty realistic view of generic Bordeaux. But
> many punters outside of France may be more naive.
>

It is definitely true. Not only do us 3 expats in France confirm it, I've
had the conversation with endless producers and cavistes.

Actually many people expect the French to be wine-savvy, but I don't
think the percentage of knowledgeable people is any higher here than in
most European countries.

With the exception of professionals I (an American) am almost invariably
the most wine conscious of the party, I think I can say without too much
egotism. (I don't include of course the experts on this group, where I
don't
rate myself nearly as highly! ) My French friends once made a big deal
about "an American knows about wine, right" but now take it as a given more
or less. Not that they don't have their own opinions!

> To the original question... I would usually say the wine is not to my
> taste. The fact that a wine exists commercially is almost proof that
> it is a question of taste, and there are very few circumstances where
> I proclaim a wine to be BAD - they are usually wines that are faulty
> or bordering on being faulty. Home-made wines are another issue.
> Mercifuly I don't know anyone who indulges in that hobby ATM.
>

You're kinder than most here. I align I guess more with John's encepage,
I don't have the heart to say I really don't like it.

But I think your faith in the market is misplaced. Many wines exist only
thanks to European or French subsidies, or to eventually be turned into
alcohol. All things being equal these businesses wouldn't survive. Anyway
I take your point that the wine in question was not "faulty" per se,
just nasty.

I'm not sure how I feel about it personally, but I've noticed the
vintners taking
to the street and attacking the gendarmes again recently. Just some
good old boys getting ready for summer vacation no doubt.

-E

John T wrote:
>>What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their friends,
>>in these situations?
>>Is honesty really the best policy?
>>
>>-E
>
>
> I usually hem, haw, say something "wow, I'm really getting a lot of
> vanilla (or herbs, or whatever)" , say things like "just like in
> music, there are a lot of styles, no one likes all of them equally,
> that doesn't mean they're better or worse." Still, some people get
> offended because I don't like their Marquis-Phillips.
>
> My response is " rustic", " individual" and if really awful " what is the
> encepage?"
>
> JT
>
>

Personally, this home winemaker would be thrilled to have knowledgeable
tasters point out any defects or other quality issues. I ferment high-quality
Sonoma and Sierra foothill grapes exclusively, never kits. I'm continually
working to increase quality; I hope I don't inflict defective wines on
my guests or hosts, but if I do I want to know about it so I can learn and
improve future batches. And the more precise the criticism, the better.

Ernie in Berkeley
To respond, rack off the LEES

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:38:39 +0200, Emery Davis
> wrote:

>Steve Slatcher wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 00:03:15 +0200, IanH > wrote:
>>
>>> But as
>>> you rightly say the majority of French are completely blinded by the
>>> dread words "Apellation Bordeaux Controlée" and think that's a
>>> guarantee of a wonderful wine.
>>
>> Is that really true? It would surprise me if it were. I think most
>> French probably have a pretty realistic view of generic Bordeaux. But
>> many punters outside of France may be more naive.
>>
>
>It is definitely true. Not only do us 3 expats in France confirm it, I've
>had the conversation with endless producers and cavistes.
>
>Actually many people expect the French to be wine-savvy, but I don't
>think the percentage of knowledgeable people is any higher here than in
>most European countries.
>
>With the exception of professionals I (an American) am almost invariably
>the most wine conscious of the party, I think I can say without too much
>egotism. (I don't include of course the experts on this group, where I
>don't
>rate myself nearly as highly! ) My French friends once made a big deal
>about "an American knows about wine, right" but now take it as a given more
>or less. Not that they don't have their own opinions!

Well, you live in France and I do not. So I will not argue.

But just to clarify... I was not ascribing a high level of wine
connoiseurship to the French. I just imagined that they had an
unromantic view of Bordeaux. That wine was more of a commodity, and
price rather than label was a pretty good indicator of what you get at
the lower end of the market.

>> To the original question... I would usually say the wine is not to my
>> taste. The fact that a wine exists commercially is almost proof that
>> it is a question of taste, and there are very few circumstances where
>> I proclaim a wine to be BAD - they are usually wines that are faulty
>> or bordering on being faulty. Home-made wines are another issue.
>> Mercifuly I don't know anyone who indulges in that hobby ATM.
>>
>
>You're kinder than most here. I align I guess more with John's encepage,
>I don't have the heart to say I really don't like it.
>
>But I think your faith in the market is misplaced. Many wines exist only
>thanks to European or French subsidies, or to eventually be turned into
>alcohol. All things being equal these businesses wouldn't survive. Anyway
>I take your point that the wine in question was not "faulty" per se,
>just nasty.

It wasn't really a faith in the market that I was expressing. Just
the observation that if someone buys something it must have some
perceived value to the purchaser. Of course, if the wine is distilled
that argument does not apply - but neither is it relevant. But when I
was thinking of wines-not-to-my-taste but which I would hesitate to
call bad, I was actually thinking mainly of the cheap, thin, often
slightly sweet wines that flood our supermarkets from the likes of
Gallo and Blossom Hill.

The two BAD examples I can think of right now were cheap Portuguese
and Spanish wines - some sort of rotten grape or dirty winemaking I
think. I'm not really sure why they were so bad. I have had plenty
of cheap wines from those countries that have been perfectly
acceptable.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Another way of getting around the problem is to tell you hostess that the
wine is far too young to be enjoyed now and that it would benefit from a
couple of decades in the cellar. Imagine that you will be invited again: if
the herbacious, overextracted notes have not vanished in favour of a
memorable, smooth-as-silk mouthfeel (bet it won't!), well... you could still
blame it on the storage conditions...

Yves


"Emery Davis" > wrote in message
...
> People who know I'm a wine geek invariably ask my opinion of their
> "special wine."
> I don't want to offend them by saying I don't like it (as is often, sadly,
> the case) and
> I end up hemming and hawing, trying to think of something positive to say.
>
> This happened again this weekend, I was served some awful Bordeaux that
> was made
> by a cousin of the Hostess. She was really proud, but I thought it was
> herbaceous but
> at the same time over concentrated, with an addition of oak juice and
> elmers glue. I
> took a couple of sips politely but drank water with the rest of the meal.
> (Got a headache
> anyway, but maybe not down to the wine, although it had "headache" writ
> large on the
> label.)
>
> She pressed me for an opinion so I waxed on about how wonderful it must be
> to drink
> juice produced by one's very own family. Blech.
>
> What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their friends, in
> these situations?
> Is honesty really the best policy?
>
> -E
>

On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:11:16 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
wrote:

>On average, older people in France tend to drink a very narrow
>range of wines, mainly Bordeaux,

In Paris?

>Loire and Alsace wines are almost never
>ordered, on average people probably don't even know the Loire makes
>wine, or that Alsace is now part of France... :-) and so these wines
>are hard to find.

Apart from in the Loire, and Alsace, where it's more difficult finding
anything else. I don't think you'll find many old people drinking
Bordeaux in Alsace. Red wine is (of course) means Alsace PN.

>On average restaurants have appallingly standardized
>wine lists, dictated by the local drinks broker usually.

Quite. It's the same in the shops too. The choice is mainly of local
wines.

But I think you put too negative a spin on the situation. Restaurants
and shops know and support their local producers. The good ones seek
out the good local producers. Is that better of worse than having a
broad national/international list? I'm not sure, but it's certainly a
different approach.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 08:22:34 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
wrote:

>Steve Slatcher wrote:
>> On Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:11:16 +0200, Mike Tommasi >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On average, older people in France tend to drink a very narrow
>>> range of wines, mainly Bordeaux,
>>
>> In Paris?
>
>Note: key qualifier is "on average". In Paris too, yes.

In Paris I could easily believe (sorry, my comment was a little cyptic
in my last post, but that is what I meant).

But I find it difficult to believe that old people in any other wine
growing area drink Bordeaux. Their range of experience might be
narrow, but it will be local to where they live.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Steve Slatcher wrote:
[]
> But just to clarify... I was not ascribing a high level of wine
> connoiseurship to the French. I just imagined that they had an
> unromantic view of Bordeaux. That wine was more of a commodity, and
> price rather than label was a pretty good indicator of what you get at
> the lower end of the market.
>
[]

No one is more romantic about their country than the French. There are
endless programs (including the most watched 1pm news program) that
are nothing more than travelogues and propaganda for how great the
country is. (And much of it is pretty fine, too. These programs can be
pretty charming. Anyone seen the guy who toddles around in the London Cab,
exclaiming at the wonders of local produce?)

Anyway the French consider Bordeaux wine to be national heritage and an
example of Gallic Superiority. Wines from the regions, with the
exception of
Burgundy and that to a lesser extent, don't enjoy the same status as
"patrimoine."

-E

Yves wrote:
> Another way of getting around the problem is to tell you hostess that the
> wine is far too young to be enjoyed now and that it would benefit from a
> couple of decades in the cellar. Imagine that you will be invited again: if
> the herbacious, overextracted notes have not vanished in favour of a
> memorable, smooth-as-silk mouthfeel (bet it won't!), well... you could still
> blame it on the storage conditions...
>
Ah, this is excellent and just what is called for. I don't have much tact
but I'll be delighted to retain yours.


-E

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

> Over here in Bandol ... they do know P******x
^^^^^^^^

Mike, please, what are you talking about?

Don't forget that a name overfamiliar to you might be completely
unknown to others.

M.

P.S. Who invented this extremely silly system of using stars
instead of letters? None of the explanations I ever read
convinced me. Copyright infringement definitely is *not*
an issue.

M.

Emery Davis > wrote:

> Anyway the French consider Bordeaux wine to be national heritage
> and an example of Gallic Superiority.

Ack.

> Wines from the regions, with the exception of Burgundy and that
> to a lesser extent, don't enjoy the same status as "patrimoine."

I would add Champagne to this short list. But then many French do
not consider Champagne as a wine.

M.

Mike Tommasi wrote:
> Michael Pronay wrote:
][
>> M.
>> P.S. Who invented this extremely silly system of using stars instead
>> of letters? None of the explanations I ever read convinced me.
>> Copyright infringement definitely is *not* an issue.
>
> Indeed silly.
>

I wonder if the custom originates in American syndicated comics, "The
Funnies."

Of course you cannot print a curse word (know amusingly in American as
"bad words"
but in French as "big words") in an American newspaper; so much for the
first amendment!
So the comics artists got around it by using &^%@# * in place of "bad
words," which
was OK perhaps because it would not corrupt the innocent.

Back on topic, maybe I should have said "This will take the paint of the
%&$^*@* windows!"

-E

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

>>> Over here in Bandol ... they do know P******x
>> ^^^^^^^^
>>
>> Mike, please, what are you talking about?
>>
>> Don't forget that a name overfamiliar to you might be
>> completely unknown to others.

> Of course, what I meant is that everyone tends to know one or
> two names that might have been the best 20-40 years ago, and
> these reputations last a long time, despite contemporary
> evidence showing that all that is left is the name...

So please, once again, what *is* the name, what does "P******x"
stand for?

M.

Mike Tommasi > wrote:

>> So please ... what does "P******x" stand for?

> Oh, I mentioned it without asterisks in the last post,
> (Ch.) Pradeaux.

Thanks a lot!

M.

On Jun 30, 5:29*am, Emery Davis > wrote:
> People who know I'm a wine geek invariably ask my opinion of their
> "special wine."
> I don't want to offend them by saying I don't like it (as is often,
> sadly, the case) and
> I end up hemming and hawing, trying to think of something positive to say.
>
> This happened again this weekend, I was served some awful Bordeaux that
> was made
> by a cousin of the Hostess. *She was really proud, but I thought it was
> herbaceous but
> at the same time over concentrated, with an addition of oak juice and
> elmers glue. *I
> took a couple of sips politely but drank water with the rest of the
> meal. *(Got a headache
> anyway, but maybe not down to the wine, although it had "headache" writ
> large on the
> label.)
>
> She pressed me for an opinion so I waxed on about how wonderful it must
> be to drink
> juice produced by one's very own family. *Blech.
>
> What say the fellow geeks, or those considered geeks by their friends,
> in these situations?
> Is honesty really the best policy?
>
> -E

I always go back to:

"An unassuming, yet approachable wine. Straightforward and without
mystery, easily meeting the expectations I held for it. Pleasant, yet
flaccid. I wouldn't hold it much longer, it is probably at its peak."

The comment is honest and sufficiently wine-geeky that they think I
said something nice.

Ed Rasimus

ernie wrote:

> I hope I don't inflict defective wines on
> my guests or hosts, but if I do I want to know about it so I can learn and
> improve future batches. And the more precise the criticism, the better.

Erm... Yellowtail Shiraz. Need I say more, Ernie?

p.s. Sorry to have missed you last time out, but circumstances got in
the way...

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

Salut Yves,

On Tue, 1 Jul 2008 22:14:10 +0200, "Yves"
> wrote:

>Another way of getting around the problem is to tell you hostess that the
>wine is far too young to be enjoyed now and that it would benefit from a
>couple of decades in the cellar. Imagine that you will be invited again: if
>the herbacious, overextracted notes have not vanished in favour of a
>memorable, smooth-as-silk mouthfeel (bet it won't!), well... you could still
>blame it on the storage conditions...

Brilliant!!

==========
To answer those who asked if I was serious about the reputation of
Bordeaux. Yes. I was entirely serious. I live about 200 km (call it
130 miles) East of St Emilion, which is about the nearest Bordeaux
region. Despite the fact that there are several good wine areas
closer, most local restaurants stock 4 times as many Bordeaux wines as
these other regions put together. If I'm lucky I might find 3 or 4
Cahors, one or two moderate class Bergerac, and so on, while they have
perhaps 20 bordeaux, none of which are Crus Classés and most of which
I'd not even consider putting in my cellar.

There's some truth in the suggestion (was it Steve) that many/most
restaurants stock what the local suppliers sell. That certainly
happens to a greater or lesser extent here. As it happens I know the
owner of the local suppliers, and he's a good enough friend of mine
for me to have been able to remonstrate with him about what he offers
to the trade.

His reply is simple - and totally confirms what I've been saying. "But
Ian, I've got to supply restaurants what their customers want and
expect. They don't want some relatively minor appellation no matter
how much better value for money it may be. They want Bordeaux."

As for what the older people drink admittedly in an area which isn't
reallt a wine growing area. I'd say 90% of them will always look to
Bordeaux for their celebratory bottles and even rgeularly drink poor
quality minor AOC Bordeaux, despite the fact that there's a perfectly
good local (next door region, actually, and that matters) wine
available for FAR less than they pay for some memorably awful plonk.

When I came here, I was pretty shocked at the general level of
ignorance about food and wine. I can absolutely confirm what Mike T
says here.

While French journalists (echoing and reinforcing the opinions of M
Tout-le-monde) proclaim the pre-eminence of France in the worlds of
gastronomy, and oenology, they are talking about something that almost
no longer exists. There's very little knowledge about, practice of, or
respect for the dishes that created the reputation of France in the
last century. I'm not saying that you can't eat and drink well here,
or that we're worse off than in other countries, but we're WAY worse
off here than we were 30 years ago. As for oenology, I've lost count
of the number of times I've heard it said "Ah yes, but they're using
French grapes varieties and French oenologists, that's the only reason
they make good wines, and in any case they don't have OUR terroir."

While I'd have some time for French chauvinism if it was based on some
kind of knowledge of wines from elsewhere, this chauvinism is
reflected in an astonishing level of refusal to import good foreign
wines and therefore is based on an almost total ignorance of what is
being made elsewhere. Virtually not ONE of my french friends have
tasted any New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc wines, Australian Shiraz,
Californian Zinfandel, Austrian Gruner Veltliner, Swiss Petite Arvine
or German Rieslings. Yet they are utterly convinced that "French
wines are the best in the World". And that's not because THEY have
tasted them, but because eminent oeno-journalists (Mchael Pronay won't
like me mentioning them) like Bettane or Burtschy, while in private
admitting that some of the best foreign wines might have a little
merit, publicly decry and denigrate all foreign wines to the extent of
actually lying about them.

I've read BB say that "Sekt" is a german name for a low quality
sparkling wine" (the Mikes can confirm this, as it sparked a furious
argument I had with him, which led to him leaving frbv) and MB
claiming that he doesn't like Tokaju Aszu because he doesn't like
sweet wines that aren't botrytised, which also sparked a somewhat
heated discussion that I had with him.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges

Ah, but that putrid sample I inflicted last time wasn't my creation; it
was a 2005 2 Buck Chuck (not Yellowtail) syrah, bottled and sold just
four months after harvest. And I was looking for input from experienced
tasters on what that horrible stench was, not validation of my imagined
talents.

The observation by Monsieur R., "BLEEAGGHHH!", was perfectly appropriate in
those circumstances.


Mark Lipton wrote:
> ernie wrote:
>
>
>> I hope I don't inflict defective wines on
>>my guests or hosts, but if I do I want to know about it so I can learn and
>>improve future batches. And the more precise the criticism, the better.
>
>
> Erm... Yellowtail Shiraz. Need I say more, Ernie?
>
> p.s. Sorry to have missed you last time out, but circumstances got in
> the way...
>