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Old 22-05-2008, 10:03 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default After returning ...

.... from a 5-day trip to Bourgogne, I have meditated on the wines of George
Fourrier in Gevrey. Why? Perhaps because Mr Fourrier said all the right
things, was eloquent, very slightly flippant about things I myself could
very well be sarcastic about, displayed pride on his father showing Big Bob
the door after saying something suitably earthy ... and because I could not
come to grips with his wines, of which we tasted 6 or 7, all from the 2006
vintage.
Monsieur does not like new oak, and considers it an environmental hazard,
considering the amount of oak needed to produce all the new oak barrels that
according to him his Father told him Big Bob haD SAID HE NEEDED TO MAKE good
wine. Monsieur re-uses his barrels, sterilising them with boiling water to
avoid bacterial overgrowth (Brett etc). I should be able to relate t that -
being slightly adverse to new oak, and, on the whole, considering an
environment as something of a bonus.
He disapproves of chemical fertilizers, various -icides, but confessed to
some admiration for the helicopter pilots that spray the fields of some of
his neighbours. THey really are terrific and deathdefying pilots.
He was all in favor of terroir, that wine should express its origin, as well
as its vintage.
---
Now comes the problematic part.
To me, his wines did not express very much at all. The only wines that I
could tell apart were those on the village level, the Gevrey vz the Morey St
Denis.
After that, despte diligent sniffing, tasting, and making all those funny
noises that accompany tastings, I could really, really not make out the
differences. This said, the wines were young, very young even, and not from
a vintage very likely to shine (neither was 1947, Mr Fourrier helpfully
pointed out).
---
Does anybody here have any experience with older vintages form this
producer? I am very curious. Indeed I am.

TIA

Cheers

Nils




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Old 22-05-2008, 02:04 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default After returning ...

On May 22, 5:03�am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
wrote:
... from a 5-day trip to Bourgogne, I have meditated on the wines of George
Fourrier in Gevrey. Why? Perhaps because Mr Fourrier said all the right
things, was eloquent, very slightly flippant about things I myself could
very well be sarcastic about, displayed pride on his father showing Big Bob
the door after saying something suitably earthy ... and because I could not
come to grips with his wines, of which we tasted 6 or 7, all from the 2006
vintage.
Monsieur does not like new oak, and considers it an environmental hazard,
considering the amount of oak needed to produce all the new oak barrels that
according to him his Father told him Big Bob haD SAID HE NEEDED TO MAKE good
wine. Monsieur re-uses his barrels, sterilising them with boiling water to
avoid bacterial overgrowth (Brett etc). I should be able to relate t that -
being slightly adverse to new oak, and, on the whole, considering an
environment as something of a bonus.
He disapproves of chemical fertilizers, various -icides, but confessed to
some admiration for the helicopter pilots that spray the fields of some of
his neighbours. THey really are terrific and deathdefying pilots.
He was all in favor of terroir, that wine should express its origin, as well
as its vintage.
---
Now comes the problematic part.
To me, his wines did not express very much at all. The only wines that I
could tell apart were those on the village level, the Gevrey vz the Morey St
Denis.
After that, despte diligent sniffing, tasting, and making all those funny
noises that accompany tastings, I could really, really not make out the
differences. This said, the wines were young, very young even, and not from
a vintage very likely to shine (neither was 1947, Mr Fourrier helpfully
pointed out).
---
Does anybody here have any experience with older vintages form this
producer? I am very curious. Indeed I am.

TIA

Cheers

Nils


I've never had any truly mature wines, but I've had several Fourriers
from '95-'02 (mostly '99s). Mostly the Gevrey Cherbaudes and the lowly
Petits Vougeot; I've had maybe one bottle each of the Combe aux
Moines('95 or '96) and one CSJ ('98?). I thought all lovely, and would
happily buy the wines if they hadn't recently gotten such good press
from Kolm, Meadows, and Gilman (as well as good word of mouth) and
have shot up.

Never "big", always elegant. Fairly traditional, in the mode of
Angerville and Mugnier. I've only had the wines side by side a couple
times,but found the Gevrey 1ers quite distinctive from one another.
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Old 22-05-2008, 02:30 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default After returning ...

Hello Dale,

About what age were the wines you tasted at the time? I really, really would
like to think that I could get to like these wines ... the incumbent
Fourrier has held his position for 24 years, taking over after his
Big-Bob-bashing father, who, according to quite unreliable sources, in fact,
did not make very good wines at all, compared to the son, and this
particularly taking into account the sometimes spectacular terroirs of these
parts.

Cheers

Nils
"DaleW" skrev i meddelandet
...
On May 22, 5:03?am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
wrote:
... from a 5-day trip to Bourgogne, I have meditated on the wines of
George
Fourrier in Gevrey. Why? Perhaps because Mr Fourrier said all the right
things, was eloquent, very slightly flippant about things I myself could
very well be sarcastic about, displayed pride on his father showing Big
Bob
the door after saying something suitably earthy ... and because I could
not
come to grips with his wines, of which we tasted 6 or 7, all from the 2006
vintage.
Monsieur does not like new oak, and considers it an environmental hazard,
considering the amount of oak needed to produce all the new oak barrels
that
according to him his Father told him Big Bob haD SAID HE NEEDED TO MAKE
good
wine. Monsieur re-uses his barrels, sterilising them with boiling water to
avoid bacterial overgrowth (Brett etc). I should be able to relate t
that -
being slightly adverse to new oak, and, on the whole, considering an
environment as something of a bonus.
He disapproves of chemical fertilizers, various -icides, but confessed to
some admiration for the helicopter pilots that spray the fields of some of
his neighbours. THey really are terrific and deathdefying pilots.
He was all in favor of terroir, that wine should express its origin, as
well
as its vintage.
---
Now comes the problematic part.
To me, his wines did not express very much at all. The only wines that I
could tell apart were those on the village level, the Gevrey vz the Morey
St
Denis.
After that, despte diligent sniffing, tasting, and making all those funny
noises that accompany tastings, I could really, really not make out the
differences. This said, the wines were young, very young even, and not
from
a vintage very likely to shine (neither was 1947, Mr Fourrier helpfully
pointed out).
---
Does anybody here have any experience with older vintages form this
producer? I am very curious. Indeed I am.

TIA

Cheers

Nils


I've never had any truly mature wines, but I've had several Fourriers
from '95-'02 (mostly '99s). Mostly the Gevrey Cherbaudes and the lowly
Petits Vougeot; I've had maybe one bottle each of the Combe aux
Moines('95 or '96) and one CSJ ('98?). I thought all lovely, and would
happily buy the wines if they hadn't recently gotten such good press
from Kolm, Meadows, and Gilman (as well as good word of mouth) and
have shot up.

Never "big", always elegant. Fairly traditional, in the mode of
Angerville and Mugnier. I've only had the wines side by side a couple
times,but found the Gevrey 1ers quite distinctive from one another.


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-05-2008, 03:19 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,554
Default After returning ...

On May 22, 9:30�am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
wrote:
Hello Dale,

About what age were the wines you tasted at the time? I really, really would
like to think that I could get to like these wines ... the incumbent
Fourrier has held his position for 24 years, taking over after his
Big-Bob-bashing father, who, according to quite unreliable sources, in fact,
did not make very good wines at all, compared to the son, and this
particularly taking into account the sometimes spectacular terroirs of these
parts.

Cheers

Nils
"DaleW" skrev i ...
On May 22, 5:03?am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"





wrote:
... from a 5-day trip to Bourgogne, I have meditated on the wines of
George
Fourrier in Gevrey. Why? Perhaps because Mr Fourrier said all the right
things, was eloquent, very slightly flippant about things I myself could
very well be sarcastic about, displayed pride on his father showing Big
Bob
the door after saying something suitably earthy ... and because I could
not
come to grips with his wines, of which we tasted 6 or 7, all from the 2006
vintage.
Monsieur does not like new oak, and considers it an environmental hazard,
considering the amount of oak needed to produce all the new oak barrels
that
according to him his Father told him Big Bob haD SAID HE NEEDED TO MAKE
good
wine. Monsieur re-uses his barrels, sterilising them with boiling water to
avoid bacterial overgrowth (Brett etc). I should be able to relate t
that -
being slightly adverse to new oak, and, on the whole, considering an
environment as something of a bonus.
He disapproves of chemical fertilizers, various -icides, but confessed to
some admiration for the helicopter pilots that spray the fields of some of
his neighbours. THey really are terrific and deathdefying pilots.
He was all in favor of terroir, that wine should express its origin, as
well
as its vintage.
---
Now comes the problematic part.
To me, his wines did not express very much at all. The only wines that I
could tell apart were those on the village level, the Gevrey vz the Morey
St
Denis.
After that, despte diligent sniffing, tasting, and making all those funny
noises that accompany tastings, I could really, really not make out the
differences. This said, the wines were young, very young even, and not
from
a vintage very likely to shine (neither was 1947, Mr Fourrier helpfully
pointed out).
---
Does anybody here have any experience with older vintages form this
producer? I am very curious. Indeed I am.


TIA


Cheers


Nils


I've never had any truly mature wines, but I've had several Fourriers
from '95-'02 (mostly '99s). Mostly the Gevrey Cherbaudes and the lowly
Petits Vougeot; I've had maybe one bottle each of the Combe aux
Moines('95 or '96) and one CSJ ('98?). I thought all lovely, and would
happily buy the wines if they hadn't recently gotten such good press
from Kolm, Meadows, and Gilman (as well as good word of mouth) and
have shot up.

Never "big", always elegant. Fairly traditional, in the mode of
Angerville and Mugnier. I've only had the wines side by side a couple
times,but found the Gevrey 1ers quite distinctive from one another.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


All in last 5 years, I'd say ranged from 5 to 10 years from vintage.
All could have used more time.
I own one bottle of Fourrier, the '95 CSJ, have 2010-2015 as my target
dates.
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-05-2008, 04:01 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Posts: 365
Default After returning ...

I own one bottle of Fourrier, the '95 CSJ, have 2010-2015 as my target
dates.


OK if I drop in ... say 2012-ish?

Cheers

Nils




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 22-05-2008, 05:37 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Posts: 4,554
Default After returning ...

On May 22, 11:01�am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
wrote:
I own one bottle of Fourrier, the '95 CSJ, have 2010-2015 as my target
dates.


OK if I drop in ... say 2012-ish?

Cheers

Nils


sure, come on by!
You and Christina would always be welcome.
  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 23-05-2008, 12:59 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Posts: 1,930
Default After returning ...

On May 22, 5:03�am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
wrote:
... from a 5-day trip to Bourgogne, I have meditated on the wines of George
Fourrier in Gevrey. Why? Perhaps because Mr Fourrier said all the right
things, was eloquent, very slightly flippant about things I myself could
very well be sarcastic about, displayed pride on his father showing Big Bob
the door after saying something suitably earthy ... and because I could not
come to grips with his wines, of which we tasted 6 or 7, all from the 2006
vintage.
Monsieur does not like new oak, and considers it an environmental hazard,
considering the amount of oak needed to produce all the new oak barrels that
according to him his Father told him Big Bob haD SAID HE NEEDED TO MAKE good
wine. Monsieur re-uses his barrels, sterilising them with boiling water to
avoid bacterial overgrowth (Brett etc). I should be able to relate t that -
being slightly adverse to new oak, and, on the whole, considering an
environment as something of a bonus.
He disapproves of chemical fertilizers, various -icides, but confessed to
some admiration for the helicopter pilots that spray the fields of some of
his neighbours. THey really are terrific and deathdefying pilots.
He was all in favor of terroir, that wine should express its origin, as well
as its vintage.
---
Now comes the problematic part.
To me, his wines did not express very much at all. The only wines that I
could tell apart were those on the village level, the Gevrey vz the Morey St
Denis.
After that, despte diligent sniffing, tasting, and making all those funny
noises that accompany tastings, I could really, really not make out the
differences. This said, the wines were young, very young even, and not from
a vintage very likely to shine (neither was 1947, Mr Fourrier helpfully
pointed out).
---
Does anybody here have any experience with older vintages form this
producer? I am very curious. Indeed I am.

TIA

Cheers

Nils


I've only had a few of his wines over the past few years. I would say
that during my recent visit to Burgundy virtually everyone we visited
eschewed the use of 100% new oak most opting for about 1/3. One
producer recently left his importer (who shall remain unnamed) because
the importer kept pushing him to add more oak to his wines. I would
also point out that virtually every producer that I met with used
biodynamic farming to some degree yet we saw plenty of helicopters
spraying vineyards during our visit. Hmmmm.
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Old 23-05-2008, 12:18 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default After returning ...

I would
also point out that virtually every producer that I met with used
biodynamic farming to some degree yet we saw plenty of helicopters
spraying vineyards during our visit. Hmmmm.


You noticed too? Did you ever get the feeling that they, sort of, said the
same thing ... ? About, like, terroir, respect, tradition, and so on and so
forth?
And, BTW, which producers did you visit (nudge nudge)?

We, for our part, visited Francois Lamarche (no you cannot buy anything. No
you cannot order anything. No you cannot be put on the waiting list), Tollot
Beaut (well, everything fro the 2006 is sold, everything from 2007 is
ordered and ...), Dom Lambray (as you know our production is very small and
is mostly intended for the owners), Domaine Cornu in Magny-lès-Villers (good
GC Corton at EU 35), Lignier in Morey-St-Denis (extremely good QPR 1er cru M
StD, 20 EU!) and Olivier Leflaive who makes exactly the kind of wine you'll
like if you like the kind of wine that Olivier Leflaive makes and I don't
think I do.

Cheers

Nils

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Old 23-05-2008, 01:04 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default After returning ...

On May 23, 7:18�am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
wrote:
�I would
also point out that virtually every producer that I met with used
biodynamic farming to some degree yet we saw plenty of helicopters
spraying vineyards during our visit. �Hmmmm.


You noticed too? Did you ever get the feeling that they, sort of, said the
same thing ... ? About, like, terroir, respect, tradition, and so on and so
forth?
And, BTW, which producers did you visit (nudge nudge)?

We, for our part, visited Francois Lamarche (no you cannot buy anything. No
you cannot order anything. No you cannot be put on the waiting list), Tollot
Beaut (well, everything fro the 2006 is sold, everything from 2007 is
ordered and ...), Dom Lambray (as you know our production is very small and
is mostly intended for the owners), Domaine Cornu in Magny-l�s-Villers (good
GC Corton at EU 35), Lignier in Morey-St-Denis (extremely good QPR 1er cru M
StD, 20 EU!) and Olivier Leflaive who makes exactly the kind of wine you'll
like if you like the kind of wine that Olivier Leflaive makes and I don't
think I do.

Cheers

Nils


I got the hint and I'm working on it Nils. :-)...I had a ton of work
piled up on my desk on return and a client was screaming for a
report....I hate it when work gets in the way!

Yes, I did get the feeling that they were al saying the same
thing...like a mantra out of the same book. Most producers have
shipped their 2006's and all complained of the small harvest of 2006
almost as a justification of the price levels in relation to 2005.
They all seemed a bit apologetic over the 2005 wines in that a vintage
like 2005 comes along once in a century and they couldn't dare hope to
make wines like 2005 again...hmmmm.
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Old 23-05-2008, 01:13 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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On May 23, 7:56�am, Mike Tommasi wrote:
Bi!! wrote:
I would
also point out that virtually every producer that I met with used
biodynamic farming to some degree yet we saw plenty of helicopters
spraying vineyards during our visit. �Hmmmm.


Your statement is meaningless without any names attached... but to a
large extent your claim is true. :-)

Somebody compiled a list on the web of 425 domaines that are allegedly
Biodynamic. I would guess that maybe 100 are actually certified
biodynamic, and that only 20 are certified on a significant part of
their production.

Without certification, any claim to biodynamics is just dabbling and not
verifiable, therefore dishonest. "Using biodynamic practices" means
almost nothing.

What percentage of the production of Leflaive, Comptes Lafon or Prieur�
Roch is Biodynamic? �10%? 5%? 1%? This allows space for lots of
marketing and lots of helicopters :-)

--
Mike Tommasi - Six Fours, France
email linkhttp://www.tommasi.org/mymail


That was the irony. I don't think that there was any intentional
deceit just a desire to grow the best grapes they can without a lot of
chemical intervention. Many would allude to not using any herbicides,
I saw a few horse pulled plows in the vineyards, and there seemed to
be an avoidance of the issue of pesticides. I suppose it's possible
that the helicopters were spraying salicylicides on the leaves which
alledgedly increases the effects of sunlight on vine growth by
refracting sunlight. I also should clarify that while they mentioned
the use of biodynamic processes I didn't mean to imply that they were
in fact certified as biodynamic growers as far as I know. I'll post a
list today of the sites that I visited.


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Old 23-05-2008, 02:15 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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What percentage of the production of Leflaive, Comptes Lafon or Prieur�
Roch is Biodynamic? �10%? 5%? 1%? This allows space for lots of
marketing and lots of helicopters :-)


I don't often run across Prieure Roch, but Domaine Leflaive (NOT
Olivier) and Lafon claim to be fully biodynamic. I know Leflaive is
certified by Demeter, unsure re Lafon.
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Old 23-05-2008, 06:46 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default After returning ...

On May 22, 7:59�pm, "Bi!!" wrote:
. �One
producer recently left his importer (who shall remain unnamed) because
the importer kept pushing him to add more oak to his wines. �


Oh, that's teasing. How about initials? BK?
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Old 23-05-2008, 08:22 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default After returning ...

DaleW wrote:
On May 22, 7:59�pm, "Bi!!" wrote:
. �One
producer recently left his importer (who shall remain unnamed) because
the importer kept pushing him to add more oak to his wines. �


Oh, that's teasing. How about initials? BK?


or DH/NBI? :P

Mark Lipton


--
alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com
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Old 23-05-2008, 10:43 PM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default After returning ...


"Bi!!" skrev i meddelandet
...
On May 23, 7:18�am, "Nils Gustaf Lindgren"
wrote:
�I would
also point out that virtually every producer that I met with used
biodynamic farming to some degree yet we saw plenty of helicopters
spraying vineyards during our visit. �Hmmmm.


You noticed too? Did you ever get the feeling that they, sort of, said the
same thing ... ? About, like, terroir, respect, tradition, and so on and
so
forth?
And, BTW, which producers did you visit (nudge nudge)?

We, for our part, visited Francois Lamarche (no you cannot buy anything.
No
you cannot order anything. No you cannot be put on the waiting list),
Tollot
Beaut (well, everything fro the 2006 is sold, everything from 2007 is
ordered and ...), Dom Lambray (as you know our production is very small
and
is mostly intended for the owners), Domaine Cornu in Magny-l�s-Villers
(good
GC Corton at EU 35), Lignier in Morey-St-Denis (extremely good QPR 1er cru
M
StD, 20 EU!) and Olivier Leflaive who makes exactly the kind of wine
you'll
like if you like the kind of wine that Olivier Leflaive makes and I don't
think I do.

Cheers

Nils


I got the hint and I'm working on it Nils. :-)...I had a ton of work
piled up on my desk on return and a client was screaming for a
report....I hate it when work gets in the way!

In fact, I cannot point the finger of scoff, seeing as how I promised to do
the Bourgogne part of the FAQ c. one zillion years ago and so far, what has
happened? Exactly.

However, I saw you recent posting and it was very illuminative,
partiocularly as concerns CHablis which so far I have not visited (mea
culpa).

...like a mantra out of the same book.

Exactly. Mantra. MikeT said it first (really about Mascarello di Mascarello
in Barolo, but it still fits) and it gives me a bit of ... itch in the soul
or something similar.

I did taste a few 2007 from barrels (where the malolactic fermentation was
over and the CO2 had evaporated) and, with all possible aubterfuges I think
the 07 might be better than the 06. This of course dioes not express the
views of my employer etc etc.

CHeers

Nils
(Self-employed)

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Old 27-05-2008, 12:11 AM posted to alt.food.wine
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Default After returning ...

On May 23, 3:22*pm, Mark Lipton wrote:
DaleW wrote:
On May 22, 7:59�pm, "Bi!!" wrote:
. �One
producer recently left his importer (who shall remain unnamed) because
the importer kept pushing him to add more oak to his wines. �


Oh, that's teasing. How about initials? BK?


or DH/NBI? :P

Mark Lipton

--
alt.food.wine FAQ: *http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com


One of you is right......


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