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  #81 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default Can Sparkling Wine From The U.S. Be Called Champagne?

On Mar 31, 3:07�pm, "Richard Neidich" > wrote:
> "Bi!!" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Mar 31, 11:18 am, Timothy Hartley
> > > wrote:
> >> In message >
> >> � � � � � Miles > wrote:

>
> . The US model for labeling by varietal is basically
>
> > meaningless.

>
> Bill, I totally disagree. �Its not like we say just this is Generic
> Cabernet.
>
> We do have it from Valley to vineyard designates. �If fact you are now
> starting to make Miles case.
>
> Ours is not meaningless in any manner. �If anything its more complete.


With all of the "generic" wines that we make today we might as well.
I would trust that many, if not most, folks couldn't tell the
difference between Rutherford Cab and Oakville Cab unless they already
know who the maker is and where he/she sources his/her fruit or juice
from. The Valley and vineyard designates are meaningless if the wines
all taste the same. The reality is that we do say generically that a
wine is Cabernet, Merlot, etc. Anything beyond that is a bonus.
Would you like to explain the word "Meritage" to a European versus the
designation "Red Table Wine"? But I think you're missing my point
which is that most of our labeling practices are really about
marketing and have little do do with information about the contents.
The next time you're in your local wineshop just cruise the aisles and
try to determine where a domestic wine is from just by looking at the
front label. I think you'll be surprised how many wines you must pick-
up and scrutinize to find out who made it, what's really in it, and
where the juice is really from.
  #82 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default Can Sparkling Wine From The U.S. Be Called Champagne?

I used to be able to taste and pick out the Rutherford wines years back.
Today, I will agree most are not really much different than the Stags leap
district wines.

Not sure of the reasons. But our labeling is more complete and we do on
back of most Meritage state the blend.

Now in my case I have studied and I adore most top tier Bordeaux and Burg
wines. Just getting real familiar with Rhones in past 2-3 years. My
cellars are now about 70% French at home and growing with the 2005 White
Burgs. I agree and to my tastes French wines accompany meals more to my
liking. I find them more complex, finessing and mostly more agreeable with
foods. Also, more distinguishable by location and designation.


But our labels are more complete and I have had to explain to people that
the blend in a Haut Medoc has the same grape varietals than a Pomeral /St
Emillion wine...but one side is Cab Dominant the other is Merlot dominant.
They after having a great Merlot Based such as Pavie, they stop saying, I
don't drink merlot.


"Bi!!" > wrote in message
...
On Mar 31, 3:07?pm, "Richard Neidich" > wrote:
> "Bi!!" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > On Mar 31, 11:18 am, Timothy Hartley
> > > wrote:
> >> In message >
> >> ? ? ? ? ? Miles > wrote:

>
> . The US model for labeling by varietal is basically
>
> > meaningless.

>
> Bill, I totally disagree. ?Its not like we say just this is Generic
> Cabernet.
>
> We do have it from Valley to vineyard designates. ?If fact you are now
> starting to make Miles case.
>
> Ours is not meaningless in any manner. ?If anything its more complete.


With all of the "generic" wines that we make today we might as well.
I would trust that many, if not most, folks couldn't tell the
difference between Rutherford Cab and Oakville Cab unless they already
know who the maker is and where he/she sources his/her fruit or juice
from. The Valley and vineyard designates are meaningless if the wines
all taste the same. The reality is that we do say generically that a
wine is Cabernet, Merlot, etc. Anything beyond that is a bonus.
Would you like to explain the word "Meritage" to a European versus the
designation "Red Table Wine"? But I think you're missing my point
which is that most of our labeling practices are really about
marketing and have little do do with information about the contents.
The next time you're in your local wineshop just cruise the aisles and
try to determine where a domestic wine is from just by looking at the
front label. I think you'll be surprised how many wines you must pick-
up and scrutinize to find out who made it, what's really in it, and
where the juice is really from.


  #83 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default Can Sparkling Wine From The U.S. Be Called Champagne?

I have been 2x to Walla Walla and never seen the prison, thankfully. In
fact the last two summers I have been there for 1 week each time.

Wineries outstanding. In my opinion some are far better than the best of
Napa at 50-60% of cost. So I think better PQR.

I don't yet know how they age but I imagine better than many a Napa Super
Premium.

Leonottti, Abeja, Renninger, Woodward Canyon...just to name a few vs. Phelps
Insignia etc.

The only Napa Winery I think is at that level is William Cole and that might
be the best red wine I have had...its Chateau Margaux 1995 or 2000 and 75%
off.
"James Silverton" > wrote in message
news:BOaIj.9783$p97.3497@trnddc03...
> Richard wrote on Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:29:34 -0400:
>
> RN> > wrote in message
> RN> ...
>
> RN> Which merlot do you consider the better ones from Walla
> RN> Walla. I love that appelation...
>
> .It must be one of the few places with a Federal Prison (the first, I seem
> to remember) and also wineries!
>
>
> James Silverton
> Potomac, Maryland
>
> E-mail, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not



  #84 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default Can Sparkling Wine From The U.S. Be Called Champagne?

Hi Richard,

On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:29:34 -0400, "Richard Neidich"
> wrote:

>>>Could be true. I have no desire for US Merlots.

>>
>> Apart from some of the better ones from Walla walla, neither do I.


>Which merlot do you consider the better ones from Walla Walla. I love that
>appelation...


Leonetti impressed me very much, when I had it at a restaurant in
Seattle.

Woodward Canyon as well.

I also liked the l'Ecole 41 Estate 7 Hills as well. Oh, and although
it wasn't in the same class as the others I was taken with one from
Tamarack Vineyards in Firehouse Road.

We only spent about two/three days there, so didn't get to taste as
many as we'd have liked to. In fact, I think that overall I was
slightly more impressed with Syrah from the area than the Merlots,
though obviously Walla Walla is making it's reputation on the latter
wines, because they're so much more unusual.

And talking of syrah...

I liked K vintner's wines, but we didn't get to taste any of their
Merlots

I also liked all the Cayuse wines we tasted very much indeed, but
again - like K vintners didn't taste a Merlot.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges
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Default Can Sparkling Wine From The U.S. Be Called Champagne?

I met the owner of K Vintners at a restaurant in Walla Walla(Saffrons was
the name and the owner/chef was Todd English's right hand chef when he
opened Vegas and Seattle..

Owner of K- Vintners was Charles...funny and hippie like guy...long hair
almost dreadlocked...

I was told by many to visit his place but they were bottling and racking
barrels and not open to public as they were so busy. He would have seen us
the next week. I heard his Syrah were the most Hermitage like in North
America...but I did not get to try. And as luck has it non in my stores
here in North Carolina.

But I will return there this summer most likely.

> wrote in message
...
> Hi Richard,
>
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:29:34 -0400, "Richard Neidich"
> > wrote:
>
>>>>Could be true. I have no desire for US Merlots.
>>>
>>> Apart from some of the better ones from Walla walla, neither do I.

>
>>Which merlot do you consider the better ones from Walla Walla. I love
>>that
>>appelation...

>
> Leonetti impressed me very much, when I had it at a restaurant in
> Seattle.
>
> Woodward Canyon as well.
>
> I also liked the l'Ecole 41 Estate 7 Hills as well. Oh, and although
> it wasn't in the same class as the others I was taken with one from
> Tamarack Vineyards in Firehouse Road.
>
> We only spent about two/three days there, so didn't get to taste as
> many as we'd have liked to. In fact, I think that overall I was
> slightly more impressed with Syrah from the area than the Merlots,
> though obviously Walla Walla is making it's reputation on the latter
> wines, because they're so much more unusual.
>
> And talking of syrah...
>
> I liked K vintner's wines, but we didn't get to taste any of their
> Merlots
>
> I also liked all the Cayuse wines we tasted very much indeed, but
> again - like K vintners didn't taste a Merlot.
> --
> All the best
> Fatty from Forges





  #86 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default Can Sparkling Wine From The U.S. Be Called Champagne?

Bi!! wrote:

> But I think you're missing my point
> which is that most of our labeling practices are really about
> marketing and have little do do with information about the contents.
> The next time you're in your local wineshop just cruise the aisles and
> try to determine where a domestic wine is from just by looking at the
> front label. I think you'll be surprised how many wines you must pick-
> up and scrutinize to find out who made it, what's really in it, and
> where the juice is really from.


It is strange that someone brought up the name of Alexis Lichine
recently. His first real contribution to the wine world was changing
the label on Bordeaux whites to Sauvignon Blanc and watched the sales
go up 700%. Labels are about marketing for sure.
I am currently trying to get a handle on California's newest AVA,
Rockpile. I have so far tasted 9 wines from this new area that was
first planted in 1997 and became an AVA in 2002. The wines are
remarkably similar seemingly just from the soil and climate. I am
working on the next 9 wines over the next couple of weeks.
If you try three of these wines you will have a good idea what
this AVA is all about.
Some that are available: Carol Shelton (2 Zins and a Petite Syrah),
Cline, Rosenblum, Seghesio, Mauritson (6 or 7), JR Cellars.
  #87 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default Can Sparkling Wine From The U.S. Be Called Champagne?

I have had the Rosenblum before.

Also, Rosenblum a couple years back was selling shares in the company to
raise cash. Supposedly for new manufacturing. I passed cause there was no
guaranteed return, no dividends...did not make sense.

I saw Rosenblum sold...I should have bought $100000 it would have more than
tripled I think in 2 years. Damn.
"Bill Loftin" > wrote in message
...
> Bi!! wrote:
>
>> But I think you're missing my point
>> which is that most of our labeling practices are really about
>> marketing and have little do do with information about the contents.
>> The next time you're in your local wineshop just cruise the aisles and
>> try to determine where a domestic wine is from just by looking at the
>> front label. I think you'll be surprised how many wines you must pick-
>> up and scrutinize to find out who made it, what's really in it, and
>> where the juice is really from.

>
> It is strange that someone brought up the name of Alexis Lichine
> recently. His first real contribution to the wine world was changing
> the label on Bordeaux whites to Sauvignon Blanc and watched the sales
> go up 700%. Labels are about marketing for sure.
> I am currently trying to get a handle on California's newest AVA,
> Rockpile. I have so far tasted 9 wines from this new area that was
> first planted in 1997 and became an AVA in 2002. The wines are remarkably
> similar seemingly just from the soil and climate. I am
> working on the next 9 wines over the next couple of weeks.
> If you try three of these wines you will have a good idea what
> this AVA is all about.
> Some that are available: Carol Shelton (2 Zins and a Petite Syrah),
> Cline, Rosenblum, Seghesio, Mauritson (6 or 7), JR Cellars.



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Default Can Sparkling Wine From The U.S. Be Called Champagne?

Hi
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:20:41 -0400, "Richard Neidich"
> wrote:

>> I liked K vintner's wines, but we didn't get to taste any of their
>> Merlots


>Owner of K- Vintners was Charles...funny and hippie like guy...long hair
>almost dreadlocked...


Yes, that's the guy... I found him hard to get a handle on. He seemed
immensely self satisfied and almost arrogant, but when you taste his
better wines, you can see that it's pretty well justified. Mind you,
I've been to other places in the world where they make wines that are
mind bogglingly good without that.

> I heard his Syrah were the most Hermitage like in North America...but I did not get to try.


We got to taste their "Morson Lane" vineyard in barrel (as well as
some blends) which impressed me no end. We then got onto bottles,
where we had:- (with brief notes)

Wilbrand "?Wahlinke?" Slope Lovely nose, typical syrah. Seamless,
gorgeous again.

02 Roma More intense colour, petroleum/mineral nose mouth perfectly
integrated forward, glorious wine.

02 80% Cabernet Sauvignon 20% Syrah "En Cerise" Cayuse. Awesome.

In fact this last - the "En Cerise" was one of the few wines we
bought while in the West.

I don't know how close they are to Hermitage, I don't get that many
opportunities to drink either!

>But I will return there this summer most likely.


Enjoy.
--
All the best
Fatty from Forges
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Default Can Sparkling Wine From The U.S. Be Called Champagne?

I used to buy JL Chave but I did that when they were under $100.00 bottle.

I have some 1996 and 1998 in my cellar and they were GREAT BUYs.

Not sure if the new stuff is worth the price, but with college for kids, its
out of the question for me even if it is.
> wrote in message
...
> Hi
> On Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:20:41 -0400, "Richard Neidich"
> > wrote:
>
>>> I liked K vintner's wines, but we didn't get to taste any of their
>>> Merlots

>
>>Owner of K- Vintners was Charles...funny and hippie like guy...long hair
>>almost dreadlocked...

>
> Yes, that's the guy... I found him hard to get a handle on. He seemed
> immensely self satisfied and almost arrogant, but when you taste his
> better wines, you can see that it's pretty well justified. Mind you,
> I've been to other places in the world where they make wines that are
> mind bogglingly good without that.
>
>> I heard his Syrah were the most Hermitage like in North America...but I
>> did not get to try.

>
> We got to taste their "Morson Lane" vineyard in barrel (as well as
> some blends) which impressed me no end. We then got onto bottles,
> where we had:- (with brief notes)
>
> Wilbrand "?Wahlinke?" Slope Lovely nose, typical syrah. Seamless,
> gorgeous again.
>
> 02 Roma More intense colour, petroleum/mineral nose mouth perfectly
> integrated forward, glorious wine.
>
> 02 80% Cabernet Sauvignon 20% Syrah "En Cerise" Cayuse. Awesome.
>
> In fact this last - the "En Cerise" was one of the few wines we
> bought while in the West.
>
> I don't know how close they are to Hermitage, I don't get that many
> opportunities to drink either!
>
>>But I will return there this summer most likely.

>
> Enjoy.
> --
> All the best
> Fatty from Forges



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Default Can Sparkling Wine From The U.S. Be Called Champagne?

Timothy Hartley wrote:

> So what? Would it not in fact be helpful to those consumers who had
> tasted such wines and liked the distinctive style to be able easily to
> recognise it again?


Consumers aren't so stupid that they need such labeling. Everything
they need is on the label already.


> I simply do not understand what the problem is — each country has
> developed a system which, broadly speaking, suits it.


I'm glad the USA has not adopted the EU naming conventions. I prefer it
the way it is.
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