Some older Chardonnays
Chateau Garage pressed our 2007 Napa Rutherford Cabernet this week.
While doing so, one of our group decided to do a little cellar cleaning. We opened a 1979 and 1980 Kistler Chardonnay and a 1979 Chateau Montelena Chardonnay. Both of the Kistlers were pretty much undrinkable. It wasn't so much the oxidation, but a total lack of fruit and a "chemical" character. The Chateau Montelena was rather nice. Definitely older, but still good Chardonnay fruit and a LOT of complexity. I think I will have to put Chateau Montelena up there with Stony Hill as a California Chardonnay that ages well. Jim -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Some older Chardonnays
Jim Mehl wrote:
> Chateau Garage pressed our 2007 Napa Rutherford Cabernet this week. > While doing so, one of our group decided to do a little cellar cleaning. > We opened a 1979 and 1980 Kistler Chardonnay and a 1979 > Chateau Montelena Chardonnay. Both of the Kistlers were pretty > much undrinkable. It wasn't so much the oxidation, but a total lack > of fruit and a "chemical" character. The Chateau Montelena was rather > nice. Definitely older, but still good Chardonnay fruit and a LOT of > complexity. I think I will have to put Chateau Montelena up there with > Stony Hill as a California Chardonnay that ages well. Interesting notes, Jim. I'd have to agree about the ageability of Montelena's Chardonnay, though Jean makes it difficult to put that information into practice ;-) And I'm not that surprised about the Kistlers, either: for all the talk of their "Burgundian" character, the few Kistler Chards that I've had have just been big big big with tons of oak and malo character. From your experience, it's tempting to conclude that the way to make an ageworthy CA Chardonnay is to block malolactic fermentation. Any idea whether Grgich-Hill's can age like that? Mark Lipton p.s. Great website for Chateau Garage! I had no idea that it existed. -- alt.food.wine FAQ: http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com |
Some older Chardonnays
On Nov 9, 7:38 am, "Jim Mehl" > wrote:
> Chateau Garage pressed our 2007 Napa Rutherford Cabernet this week. > While doing so, one of our group decided to do a little cellar cleaning. > We opened a 1979 and 1980 Kistler Chardonnay and a 1979 > Chateau Montelena Chardonnay. Both of the Kistlers were pretty > much undrinkable. It wasn't so much the oxidation, but a total lack > of fruit and a "chemical" character. The Chateau Montelena was rather > nice. Definitely older, but still good Chardonnay fruit and a LOT of > complexity. I think I will have to put Chateau Montelena up there with > Stony Hill as a California Chardonnay that ages well. There is no reason why a Chardonnay can not be made to age well for up to at least a few decades, but most made in the US and Europe do not. >From selected locations with best growing and wine making technique, It is not unusual for a Montrachet, top Chablis, etc to age well for several decades. In California, I have found few that age well over a decade on a regular basis. The top reserves of Au Bon Climat usually do, and most of the few bottles of their reserves I have from 1989 - 1993 still are holding very well. These wines tend to be rather sharp when young and need several years at least before they are good drinking. Mount Eden Estate also often ages well for over a decade, but there have been several exceptions. When it does age right, it can be near the top. Stony Hill made some Chardonnay that was outstanding and aged very well in the distant past. I am not sure about more recent vintages. I had both their estate 1991 and 1992. The quality of these was not so good in my opinion, and they did not age very well. They were far inferior to the Au Bon Climat reserves at over a decade old. Of course it is possible that the bottles I had of the Stony Hill, bought at the same time, had heat damage or some other storage problem before I bought them. I have aged quite a few Napa CSs for a long time with often good results. However, I have not bought any Napa Chardonnay for long aging in many years. I am sure there are a few exceptions. Of course most wine, red or white, gets consumed before it is a decade old these days, So I doubt if many wine makers worry much about how their wines will age for several decades, especially if the wine is sharp and not very good to drink when still young. |
Some older Chardonnays
"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
... > > Interesting notes, Jim. I'd have to agree about the ageability of > Montelena's Chardonnay, though Jean makes it difficult to put that > information into practice ;-) And I'm not that surprised about the > Kistlers, either: for all the talk of their "Burgundian" character, the > few Kistler Chards that I've had have just been big big big with tons of > oak and malo character. From your experience, it's tempting to conclude > that the way to make an ageworthy CA Chardonnay is to block malolactic > fermentation. Any idea whether Grgich-Hill's can age like that? > > Mark Lipton > > p.s. Great website for Chateau Garage! I had no idea that it existed. Mark, I haven't tried any Grgich-Hill Chards with any age on them. I have found that Hanzell and Chalone also age well, or at least Chalone did back when Mike Michaud was the winemaker. Stony Hill is still my favorite for ageing. I've still got Stony's going back to 1982. I might have to open one over Thanksgiving. Thanks for the compliment on the Chateau Garage web site. We have fun with it. All of our 2007's have fermented. The Chardonnay (Carneros) is looking good. The Cabernet (Rutherford) got hit by the early October rains and may be a problem. Jim Mehl -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
Some older Chardonnays
El Molino and Stonyhill age very well.
10-20 years. "cwdjrxyz" > wrote in message ups.com... > On Nov 9, 7:38 am, "Jim Mehl" > wrote: >> Chateau Garage pressed our 2007 Napa Rutherford Cabernet this week. >> While doing so, one of our group decided to do a little cellar cleaning. >> We opened a 1979 and 1980 Kistler Chardonnay and a 1979 >> Chateau Montelena Chardonnay. Both of the Kistlers were pretty >> much undrinkable. It wasn't so much the oxidation, but a total lack >> of fruit and a "chemical" character. The Chateau Montelena was rather >> nice. Definitely older, but still good Chardonnay fruit and a LOT of >> complexity. I think I will have to put Chateau Montelena up there with >> Stony Hill as a California Chardonnay that ages well. > > There is no reason why a Chardonnay can not be made to age well for up > to at least a few decades, but most made in the US and Europe do not. >>From selected locations with best growing and wine making technique, > It is not unusual for a Montrachet, top Chablis, etc to age well for > several decades. In California, I have found few that age well over a > decade on a regular basis. The top reserves of Au Bon Climat usually > do, and most of the few bottles of their reserves I have from 1989 - > 1993 still are holding very well. These wines tend to be rather sharp > when young and need several years at least before they are good > drinking. Mount Eden Estate also often ages well for over a decade, > but there have been several exceptions. When it does age right, it can > be near the top. > > Stony Hill made some Chardonnay that was outstanding and aged very > well in the distant past. I am not sure about more recent vintages. I > had both their estate 1991 and 1992. The quality of these was not so > good in my opinion, and they did not age very well. They were far > inferior to the Au Bon Climat reserves at over a decade old. Of course > it is possible that the bottles I had of the Stony Hill, bought at the > same time, had heat damage or some other storage problem before I > bought them. > > I have aged quite a few Napa CSs for a long time with often good > results. However, I have not bought any Napa Chardonnay for long aging > in many years. I am sure there are a few exceptions. Of course most > wine, red or white, gets consumed before it is a decade old these > days, So I doubt if many wine makers worry much about how their wines > will age for several decades, especially if the wine is sharp and not > very good to drink when still young. > > |
Some older Chardonnays
On Nov 9, 11:12 am, "Jim Mehl" > wrote:
> I haven't tried any Grgich-Hill Chards with any age on them. I have > found that Hanzell and Chalone also age well, or at least Chalone did > back when Mike Michaud was the winemaker. Stony Hill is still my > favorite for ageing. I've still got Stony's going back to 1982. I might > have to open one over Thanksgiving. I still have a bottle each of Chalone Estate 1990, 1991, and 1992. I should taste these before too long to see how well they have held up on comparison to Au Bon Climats from the same years. I bet some of your oldest Stony Hills will still be good. It will be interesting if you have and taste the 1991 and 1992 Stony Hills that I had and found to be not so good and that did not age very well. It would be interesting to find out if your bottles are like mine, or if perhaps my bottles had been damaged by storage conditions before I bought them. Of course both Chalone and Stony Hills have changed owners, wine makers etc over the years, so past quality may not predict present quality. |
Some older Chardonnays
He ..
Some time ago, we in the oenonecrophile group tasted a Le Montrachet 1929 .... beautiful. But, then 1929 is generally considered as one of the two or three best vintages of the 20th century. But it was def'ntly Chardonnay*. Cheers Nils [*] Unless it contained some Pinot Blanc. Answer to nils.lindgren@drchips dot se |
Some older Chardonnays
"cwdjrxyz" > wrote in message
ups.com... > > I still have a bottle each of Chalone Estate 1990, 1991, and 1992. I > should taste these before too long to see how well they have held up > on comparison to Au Bon Climats from the same years. I bet some of > your oldest Stony Hills will still be good. It will be interesting if > you have and taste the 1991 and 1992 Stony Hills that I had and found > to be not so good and that did not age very well. It would be > interesting to find out if your bottles are like mine, or if perhaps > my bottles had been damaged by storage conditions before I bought > them. Of course both Chalone and Stony Hills have changed owners, wine > makers etc over the years, so past quality may not predict present > quality. The only Chalones I have left are a few 80's and 87's. Obviously I better get after them soon. I do have some Stony Hill 1991 and 1992. I should also try them soon to see if my notes compare with yours. 1994 was the last year I automatically bought a case of Stony. Jim -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com |
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