Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many wines
have(but not all)?

For instance, I had one described as, "A Cabernet/Merlot blend, the
palate is jammy and full of fruit, with bell peppers and a little
spice on the finish." This was good on the first day.

Another, described thus, "Good berry and lightly stewed fruit
flavours, a medium body with light tannins and a fruity finish",
tasted awful right away.

thanks for your help

On Sat, 19 May 2007 18:01:59 GMT, Eric > wrote:

>Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
>vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many wines
>have(but not all)?

Could be literally vinegar. But I doubt it as you would not get it on
many wines, and it is generally regarded as a fault.

All wines have some acidity, but not the acetic acid of vinegar. I
suspect you just don't like the more acidic wines.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Eric wrote:

> Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
> vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many wines
> have(but not all)?


Acidity? Tannin? It's very hard to be sure without knowing (and tasting)
some specific wines that you feel have such a taste and some specific wines
that don't.



> For instance, I had one described as, "A Cabernet/Merlot blend, the
> palate is jammy and full of fruit, with bell peppers and a little
> spice on the finish." This was good on the first day.
>
> Another, described thus, "Good berry and lightly stewed fruit
> flavours, a medium body with light tannins and a fruity finish",
> tasted awful right away.


Before of believing too much of such descriptions. In most cases, it's just
advertising hype.

The two wines were clearly of very different styles, and you like the style
of the first, but not the second. That doesn't mean that you might not like
some other wine with a similar description.

We all have different tastes and like different sorts of wines. And as we
gain more experience, our tastes often change. What you should do is take
note of what wines you like and which you don't like, and over time, you
will start to see patterns evolving.

But don't start out by assuming that because a wine you didn't like is made
from a particular grape, you don't like that grape. It may be that you don't
like that winery, or that vintage, or that you drank the wine too young, or
too old, or a host of other things. It takes experience with lots of wines
to be able to determine what your likes and dislikes are.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

On May 19, 3:45 pm, "Ken Blake" >
wrote:
> Eric wrote:
> > Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
> > vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many wines
> > have(but not all)?
>
> Acidity? Tannin? > >
Ken Blake

Is there a simple way one can learn/distinguish between acidic or
tannic; i.e., acidic will taste like so-and-so; and tannic will taste
like so-and-so; or leaves a certain sensation in your mouth, etc.

Thanks.
Dee

On Sat, 19 May 2007 18:01:59 GMT, Eric > wrote:

>Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
>vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many wines
>have(but not all)?
>
>For instance, I had one described as, "A Cabernet/Merlot blend, the
>palate is jammy and full of fruit, with bell peppers and a little
>spice on the finish." This was good on the first day.
>
>Another, described thus, "Good berry and lightly stewed fruit
>flavours, a medium body with light tannins and a fruity finish",
>tasted awful right away.
>
>thanks for your help



Thank you all very much. I think it is a kind of sour taste so I will
try to avoid wines that say "acidic" and try to find ones that are
sweet and see how that goes.

thanks again
Eric

On 19 May 2007 12:53:27 -0700, Dee Dee > wrote:

>Is there a simple way one can learn/distinguish between acidic or
>tannic; i.e., acidic will taste like so-and-so; and tannic will taste
>like so-and-so; or leaves a certain sensation in your mouth, etc.

The main effect of tannin is astringency. Astringency is not a taste
at all, but the effect of the tannins reacting with the protein in
your saliva. This gives a mouth-drying effect, and reduces the
friction between you teeth and gums. Take a good mouthful of wine,
swill it round your mouth, and note the feeling between your teeth and
gums.

Acidity is, err, well, acidic. It's in any fruit that is not fully
ripe. And all limes and lemons. Sip some lemon juice and note where
on your tongue you can taste the acid. With most people it is on the
side of the tongue towards the front. When you drink wine, attend to
that area of the tongue.

That's the basic story. And if you concentrate on that you can't go
far wrong. It's not the full story though, as tannins can also taste
bitter, and acidity can add to astrigency.

Might be worth asking your wine merchant for examples of wines high in
acidity and/or tannin. A lot of new world wines, particularly at the
cheaper end of the market are low in both.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On Sat, 19 May 2007 20:39:39 GMT, Eric > wrote:

>Thank you all very much. I think it is a kind of sour taste so I will
>try to avoid wines that say "acidic" and try to find ones that are
>sweet and see how that goes.

OK. But bear in mind that if you're drinking wine with food, you may
find that wines with higher acidity go better.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On May 19, 4:39 pm, Eric > wrote:

>
> Thank you all very much. I think it is a kind of sour taste so I will
> try to avoid wines that say "acidic" and try to find ones that are
> sweet and see how that goes.
>
> thanks again
> Eric

Hmm - Steve, I prefer dry wines. Would that be opposite of 'sweet'?

Is it only dry wines that would be acidic or tannic; or would sweet
wines have these characteristics as well?

Trying to get a handle on this.
Thanks.
Dee

Steve Slatcher wrote:

> OK. But bear in mind that if you're drinking wine with food, you may
> find that wines with higher acidity go better.

That would depend much on the foods being served.

Dee Dee wrote:

> On May 19, 3:45 pm, "Ken Blake" >
> wrote:
>> Eric wrote:
>>> Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
>>> vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many wines
>>> have(but not all)?
>>
>> Acidity? Tannin? > >
> Ken Blake
>
> Is there a simple way one can learn/distinguish between acidic or
> tannic; i.e., acidic will taste like so-and-so; and tannic will taste
> like so-and-so; or leaves a certain sensation in your mouth, etc.


Acidity is basically sourness. Because the word "sourness" puts people off,
most wines are described in terms of acidity instead.

To learn the taste of tannin, drink very strong tea, or chew on grape
leaves.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Eric wrote:

> On Sat, 19 May 2007 18:01:59 GMT, Eric > wrote:
>
>> Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
>> vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many wines
>> have(but not all)?
>>
>> For instance, I had one described as, "A Cabernet/Merlot blend, the
>> palate is jammy and full of fruit, with bell peppers and a little
>> spice on the finish." This was good on the first day.
>>
>> Another, described thus, "Good berry and lightly stewed fruit
>> flavours, a medium body with light tannins and a fruity finish",
>> tasted awful right away.
>>
>> thanks for your help
>
>
>
> Thank you all very much. I think it is a kind of sour taste so I will
> try to avoid wines that say "acidic" and try to find ones that are
> sweet and see how that goes.


Sweet is not the opposite of acid. Both can be present in a wine at the same
time. As a matter of fact, sweet wines need extra acidity to balance the
sugar. Otherwise they taste cloying.

I don't think you'll find any wines that say "acidic," because the word used
that way by itself is negative, and implies too *much* acidity. Good wine is
a balance between many different components and acidity is one of them. Too
little acidity makes a wine taste flabby and dull. Too much makes it taste
sour. You shouldn't avoid acidity, but try to find wines where the acidity
is in balance with everything else.

Over and above that, with the exception of a few dessert wines like port,
almost all red table wines are dry, not sweet, unless they are very cheap
and poor in quality.

And a final comment: again, I caution you not to simply believe whatever it
says on the label. Many wineries, especially when they are marketing
inexpensive wine to a large consumer market, write what they believe their
market wants to hear; it is not necessarily anything approaching the truth.
As a single example, I've tasted numerous cheap wines described as dry, that
were actually sweet.


--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Ken Blake wrote:

> Dee Dee wrote:
>
>> On May 19, 3:45 pm, "Ken Blake" >
>> wrote:
>>> Eric wrote:
>>>> Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
>>>> vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many
>>>> wines have(but not all)?
>>>
>>> Acidity? Tannin? > >
>> Ken Blake
>>
>> Is there a simple way one can learn/distinguish between acidic or
>> tannic; i.e., acidic will taste like so-and-so; and tannic will taste
>> like so-and-so; or leaves a certain sensation in your mouth, etc.
>
>
> Acidity is basically sourness. Because the word "sourness" puts
> people off, most wines are described in terms of acidity instead.
>
> To learn the taste of tannin, drink very strong tea, or chew on grape
> leaves.


LOL! How did I come up with "grape leaves"? I meant grape *skins*, of
course.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

On May 19, 4:01 pm, Dee Dee > wrote:

> Is it only dry wines that would be acidic or tannic; or would sweet
> wines have these characteristics as well?

A very good example of a sweet wine that can be very tannic is young
vintage port. It can take many years for a vintage port to mature, a
large amount of sediment to form, and for tannins to reduce enough in
the liquid part of the wine. Much of the tannin apparently ends up in
the sediment after some rather complex and slow chemical reactions.

A very good example of a very sweet wine that also can be very acid is
a Riesling Eiswein made in some of the colder regions of Germany such
as the Saar. It can have much of the acid attack of biting into the
flesh of a lemon, yet can also be extremely sweet. Think of making
lemonade with very much sugar, but from undiluted lemon juice for a
crude comparison.

On 19 May 2007 22:33:06 -0700, cwdjrxyz > wrote:

>On May 19, 4:01 pm, Dee Dee > wrote:
>
>> Is it only dry wines that would be acidic or tannic; or would sweet
>> wines have these characteristics as well?
>
>A very good example of a sweet wine that can be very tannic is young
>vintage port. It can take many years for a vintage port to mature, a
>large amount of sediment to form, and for tannins to reduce enough in
>the liquid part of the wine. Much of the tannin apparently ends up in
>the sediment after some rather complex and slow chemical reactions.

But port is pretty much the only common example. After that you
struggle to find good quality sweet red wines. There are a few others
made in the Port style, and Recioto della Valpolicella, and that is
about it.

>A very good example of a very sweet wine that also can be very acid is
>a Riesling Eiswein made in some of the colder regions of Germany such
>as the Saar. It can have much of the acid attack of biting into the
>flesh of a lemon, yet can also be extremely sweet. Think of making
>lemonade with very much sugar, but from undiluted lemon juice for a
>crude comparison.

That's an extreme example, but in fact all good sweet wines have high
acidity.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On 19 May 2007 14:01:43 -0700, Dee Dee > wrote:

>Hmm - Steve, I prefer dry wines. Would that be opposite of 'sweet'?

Exactly. No more, no less.

But beware.

There is a recent fashion for "dry wines", which means that a lot of
people who actually like a little sweetness declare themselves to be
dry-wine drinkers. This has resulted in some of the big brands
marketing "dry" wines that are actually off-dry (i.e. have a little
sugar).

Sometimes, also wines can taste a little sweet, but that sweet effect
comes from the ripe fruit flavours, and there is acuallya very low
sugar content.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On Sat, 19 May 2007 14:02:53 -0700, miles > wrote:

>Steve Slatcher wrote:
>
>> OK. But bear in mind that if you're drinking wine with food, you may
>> find that wines with higher acidity go better.
>
>That would depend much on the foods being served.

Could be. It is practically impossible to make generalisations with
wine.

But I am struggling to think of an example of wine with low or
medium-low acidity thar would go better with any food than one with at
least a bit more acidity.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

Eric > writes:

> On Sat, 19 May 2007 18:01:59 GMT, Eric > wrote:
>
> >Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
> >vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many wines
> >have(but not all)?
> >
> >For instance, I had one described as, "A Cabernet/Merlot blend, the
> >palate is jammy and full of fruit, with bell peppers and a little
> >spice on the finish." This was good on the first day.
> >
> >Another, described thus, "Good berry and lightly stewed fruit
> >flavours, a medium body with light tannins and a fruity finish",
> >tasted awful right away.
> >
> >thanks for your help
>
>
>
> Thank you all very much. I think it is a kind of sour taste so I will
> try to avoid wines that say "acidic" and try to find ones that are
> sweet and see how that goes.

A lot of people find acidity hugely appealing, when balanced with
other flavors.

As an experiment, ask your local wine merchant for a sauvignon blanc
which balances high acidity with fruitiness (there are lots of
candidates for this from France and New Zealand). And then drink it
with, say, a nice piece of salmon in cream sauce (or just grilled
salmon for that matter). I'm making my own mouth water.

Anyway, the point I'm making is that in the right context (when
balanced by other factors in the wine, or in the accompanying food)
acidity can be very appealing. Depending on what you like, of course!

Steve Slatcher > writes:

> On 19 May 2007 14:01:43 -0700, Dee Dee > wrote:
>
> >Hmm - Steve, I prefer dry wines. Would that be opposite of 'sweet'?
>
> Exactly. No more, no less.
>
> But beware.
>
> There is a recent fashion for "dry wines", which means that a lot of
> people who actually like a little sweetness declare themselves to be
> dry-wine drinkers. This has resulted in some of the big brands
> marketing "dry" wines that are actually off-dry (i.e. have a little
> sugar).
>
> Sometimes, also wines can taste a little sweet, but that sweet effect
> comes from the ripe fruit flavours, and there is acuallya very low
> sugar content.

Yes. I often find people confusing "fruity" with "sweet." An easy
way to distinguish (if it is important to the taster to do so) is to taste
the wine while blocking your nose. If it is sweet, you'll be able to
tell, because blocking your nose doesn't stop you from detecting the
sweetness (on your tongue) but makes it hard to detect the fruit
flavors.

On May 19, 2:01 pm, Eric > wrote:
> Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
> vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many wines
> have(but not all)?
>
> For instance, I had one described as, "A Cabernet/Merlot blend, the
> palate is jammy and full of fruit, with bell peppers and a little
> spice on the finish." This was good on the first day.
>
> Another, described thus, "Good berry and lightly stewed fruit
> flavours, a medium body with light tannins and a fruity finish",
> tasted awful right away.
>
> thanks for your help


Could be the wine was oxidized after sitting around for a day or two,
opened.

On May 20, 12:05 pm, Mike Tommasi > wrote:
> UC wrote:
> > On May 19, 2:01 pm, Eric > wrote:
> >> Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
> >> vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many wines
> >> have(but not all)?
>
> >> For instance, I had one described as, "A Cabernet/Merlot blend, the
> >> palate is jammy and full of fruit, with bell peppers and a little
> >> spice on the finish." This was good on the first day.
>
> >> Another, described thus, "Good berry and lightly stewed fruit
> >> flavours, a medium body with light tannins and a fruity finish",
> >> tasted awful right away.
>
> >> thanks for your help
>
> > Could be the wine was oxidized after sitting around for a day or two,
> > opened.
>
> Could it be that in your area there is an extraordinary concentration of
> oxygen, unseen anywhere else on earth?

Did you note the following in the OP's post:

"This was good on the first day. "

On 20 May 2007 08:00:53 -0700, Doug Anderson
> wrote:

>Yes. I often find people confusing "fruity" with "sweet." An easy
>way to distinguish (if it is important to the taster to do so) is to taste
>the wine while blocking your nose. If it is sweet, you'll be able to
>tell, because blocking your nose doesn't stop you from detecting the
>sweetness (on your tongue) but makes it hard to detect the fruit
>flavors.

Of course. Never thought of trying that. I personally have
difficulty distinguishing even if I know about the trap. Thanks for
the tip.

--
Steve Slatcher
http://pobox.com/~steve.slatcher

On 20 May 2007 08:00:53 -0700, Doug Anderson
> wrote:

>Steve Slatcher > writes:
>
>> On 19 May 2007 14:01:43 -0700, Dee Dee > wrote:
>>
>> >Hmm - Steve, I prefer dry wines. Would that be opposite of 'sweet'?
>>
>> Exactly. No more, no less.
>>
>> But beware.
>>
>> There is a recent fashion for "dry wines", which means that a lot of
>> people who actually like a little sweetness declare themselves to be
>> dry-wine drinkers. This has resulted in some of the big brands
>> marketing "dry" wines that are actually off-dry (i.e. have a little
>> sugar).
>>
>> Sometimes, also wines can taste a little sweet, but that sweet effect
>> comes from the ripe fruit flavours, and there is acuallya very low
>> sugar content.
>
>Yes. I often find people confusing "fruity" with "sweet." An easy
>way to distinguish (if it is important to the taster to do so) is to taste
>the wine while blocking your nose. If it is sweet, you'll be able to
>tell, because blocking your nose doesn't stop you from detecting the
>sweetness (on your tongue) but makes it hard to detect the fruit
>flavors.

Nice idea Doug. I often find the same, and predominantly women, who
want a "sweet" white. My explanation is long winded, so I might short
cut the issue, sell them a sweet wine and a fruity wine and tell them
to do what you suggest.

hooroo.....

Dee Dee wrote:

> Is there a simple way one can learn/distinguish between acidic or
> tannic; i.e., acidic will taste like so-and-so; and tannic will taste
> like so-and-so; or leaves a certain sensation in your mouth, etc.

An acidic wine makes you produce more saliva, and some tend to give you a
real rush in salivation, while others tend to give a longer lasting
salivation increase. This sensation is better perceived under the tongue
just after you ingest your sip of wine.
Tannins, instead, tend to dry out your mouth, in fact tanninic wines are
often paired with succulent foods.
--
Vilco
Think pink, drink rose'

In article . com>,
Dee Dee > wrote:

> On May 19, 4:39 pm, Eric > wrote:
>
> >
> > Thank you all very much. I think it is a kind of sour taste so I will
> > try to avoid wines that say "acidic" and try to find ones that are
> > sweet and see how that goes.
> >
> > thanks again
> > Eric
>
> Hmm - Steve, I prefer dry wines. Would that be opposite of 'sweet'?
>
> Is it only dry wines that would be acidic or tannic; or would sweet
> wines have these characteristics as well?
>
> Trying to get a handle on this.
> Thanks.
> Dee

Depends, sweet can mean increased residual sugars and some, like my
wife, view sweet as fruit forward wines. To me, it is residual sugar and
any wine that is just sweet with no acidity is Mogen David. Many
champagnes can fall into classes of dry (Brut) to sweet (Sec) with
semi-sweet (demi-Sec) in the middle. German Rieslings also tend to go
from Kabinett (most dry) to Trochenbeerenauseleses (most sweet) but all
have balanced acidity if they are of good quality.

In article > Doug
> wrote:

> Eric > writes:
>
>> On Sat, 19 May 2007 18:01:59 GMT, Eric > wrote:
>>
>> >Hi, I'm new to wine. With red wine, what is that sharp, almost
>> >vinegary, and to me certainly, unpleasant, taste that so many
>> wines >have(but not all)?
>> >
>> >For instance, I had one described as, "A Cabernet/Merlot blend,
>> the >palate is jammy and full of fruit, with bell peppers and a
>> little >spice on the finish." This was good on the first day.
>> >
>> >Another, described thus, "Good berry and lightly stewed fruit
>> >flavours, a medium body with light tannins and a fruity finish",
>> >tasted awful right away.
>> >
>> >thanks for your help
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you all very much. I think it is a kind of sour taste so I
>> will try to avoid wines that say "acidic" and try to find ones that
>> are sweet and see how that goes.

> A lot of people find acidity hugely appealing, when balanced
> withother flavors.
>
> As an experiment, ask your local wine merchant for a sauvignon blanc
> which balances high acidity with fruitiness (there are lots of
> candidates for this from France and New Zealand). And then drink it
> with, say, a nice piece of salmon in cream sauce (or just
> grilledsalmon for that matter). I'm making my own mouth water.
>
> Anyway, the point I'm making is that in the right context (when
> balanced by other factors in the wine, or in the accompanying food)
> acidity can be very appealing. Depending on what you like, of course!

--
I'm trying a new usenet client for Mac, Nemo OS X.
You can download it at http://www.malcom-mac.com/nemo