Last night it was SOBER (Several Oenophiles Being Extremely
Rambunctious) night, and we gathered at Drew's house.

We were greeted with the 1998 Charles Ellner Brut
Nice medium-weight Champagne, lots of fresh baked biscuit aroma, clean
apple fruit and a good finish. Very nice. B+/A-

Theme of the evening was Spain. With all of the hype and discussion
after the last Wine Advocate, it was fun to taste some of the
discussed wines (as well as others).

There was an assortment of cheeses as well as olives on the table,
then a long series of courses started arriving. For the whites there
was tomato bread:

1995 Lopez y Heredia "Gravonia" Rioja Blanco
Full and pretty nose of flowers and nuts, with a vanilla accent.
There's general agreement that palate doesn't measure up to the nose -
someone says "flat" and I think that sums it up. Great nose though,
enough to get it a B

2006 Pirineos Mesache (I didn't note region on this)
Floral and musky, round on the palate. Apparently has some Gewurz, and
it shows. Rather tropical fruit, nice different white. B

With a Spanish tortilla/frittata and the most garlicky aioli I've ever
run across (luckily I like garlic), we started on the reds:

2003 Rottlan Torra "Amadis" (Priorat)
Dark and full, big forward dark fruit- blackberries and black plums.
Big powerful wine, but not ungainly. B+

2004 Mas Doix "Salanques" (Priorat)
More red fruit driven, lots of oak, very ripe but with more acidity
than one might expect. A bit much for me, but tasty - probably a big
hit with lovers of luxury CdP cuvees. B

2003 El Nido (Jumilla)
If previous wine was a bit too much for my tastes, this one is off the
charts. Too dense and overextracted for my palate, feeling incredibly
heavy in the mouth. Drinking it reminds me of drinking cassis neat- I
can't do either. Others comments range from "dry port" to "cough
syrup." D
(Mark comments that it is better when consumed next to the salad with
a high acid vinaigrette, he's right, but that puts it in C territory
for me, not a buy at $100+!).

A big bowl of gazpacho followed, with
2003 Termes (Toro)
This is not as oaky as I expected, but the fruit has a definite stewed
overripe bent to me. This is a nice mineral & lead pencil note, but
it's drowned by the fruit. C+

2004 Numanthia (Toro)
More vanilla oak notes than the Termes, big and extracted but the
black fruits show a bit fresher than its companion. Big ripe tannins,
this isn't my style but its not the caricature that the El Nido is. B

2004 Dominio de Atauta (I think this was Ribera del Duero)
A lot of oak here again, but with fresher fruit and brighter acidity
than some of the preceding wines. Seems almost graceful in comparison,
but I found the finish surprisingly short for a big wine. B

and with the paella:

2000 Artadi "Pagos Viejos" Rioja
This is still somewhat oak dominated, with big round fruit and some
distinct chocolate notes. A little oaky for me, but a pretty good
example of modern styled Rioja. B/B+

1999 La Rioja Alta Ardanza
Very fresh, clean red fruit , bright acidity, oak present but in
background, and with a nice cedary bent to it. Probably my favorite
red of night. B+

1996 Marques de Tomares Gran Reserva Rioja
Medium-bodied, with lots of cedary oak over a body of red fruit. Not
quite as bright as the Ardanza, but a nice enough wine. B

1994 Marqués de Tomares Reserva de la Familia Rioja (from magnum)
unfortunately corked

With a chocolate cake:
La Sacristia de Romate Oloroso
Nutty and caramelly, I liked but didn't take notes. B

Fun evening. Some of the wines weren't to my tastes, but that's part
of the learning experience. Thanks Drew.

Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

In article .com>,
"DaleW" > wrote:

> Last night it was SOBER (Several Oenophiles Being Extremely
> Rambunctious) night, and we gathered at Drew's house.
>
> We were greeted with the 1998 Charles Ellner Brut
> Nice medium-weight Champagne, lots of fresh baked biscuit aroma, clean
> apple fruit and a good finish. Very nice. B+/A-
>
> Theme of the evening was Spain. With all of the hype and discussion
> after the last Wine Advocate, it was fun to taste some of the
> discussed wines (as well as others).
>
> There was an assortment of cheeses as well as olives on the table,
> then a long series of courses started arriving. For the whites there
> was tomato bread:
>
> 1995 Lopez y Heredia "Gravonia" Rioja Blanco
> Full and pretty nose of flowers and nuts, with a vanilla accent.
> There's general agreement that palate doesn't measure up to the nose -
> someone says "flat" and I think that sums it up. Great nose though,
> enough to get it a B
>
> 2006 Pirineos Mesache (I didn't note region on this)
> Floral and musky, round on the palate. Apparently has some Gewurz, and
> it shows. Rather tropical fruit, nice different white. B
>
> With a Spanish tortilla/frittata and the most garlicky aioli I've ever
> run across (luckily I like garlic), we started on the reds:
>
> 2003 Rottlan Torra "Amadis" (Priorat)
> Dark and full, big forward dark fruit- blackberries and black plums.
> Big powerful wine, but not ungainly. B+
>
> 2004 Mas Doix "Salanques" (Priorat)
> More red fruit driven, lots of oak, very ripe but with more acidity
> than one might expect. A bit much for me, but tasty - probably a big
> hit with lovers of luxury CdP cuvees. B
>
> 2003 El Nido (Jumilla)
> If previous wine was a bit too much for my tastes, this one is off the
> charts. Too dense and overextracted for my palate, feeling incredibly
> heavy in the mouth. Drinking it reminds me of drinking cassis neat- I
> can't do either. Others comments range from "dry port" to "cough
> syrup." D
> (Mark comments that it is better when consumed next to the salad with
> a high acid vinaigrette, he's right, but that puts it in C territory
> for me, not a buy at $100+!).
>
> A big bowl of gazpacho followed, with
> 2003 Termes (Toro)
> This is not as oaky as I expected, but the fruit has a definite stewed
> overripe bent to me. This is a nice mineral & lead pencil note, but
> it's drowned by the fruit. C+
>
> 2004 Numanthia (Toro)
> More vanilla oak notes than the Termes, big and extracted but the
> black fruits show a bit fresher than its companion. Big ripe tannins,
> this isn't my style but its not the caricature that the El Nido is. B
>
> 2004 Dominio de Atauta (I think this was Ribera del Duero)
> A lot of oak here again, but with fresher fruit and brighter acidity
> than some of the preceding wines. Seems almost graceful in comparison,
> but I found the finish surprisingly short for a big wine. B
>
> and with the paella:
>
> 2000 Artadi "Pagos Viejos" Rioja
> This is still somewhat oak dominated, with big round fruit and some
> distinct chocolate notes. A little oaky for me, but a pretty good
> example of modern styled Rioja. B/B+
>
> 1999 La Rioja Alta Ardanza
> Very fresh, clean red fruit , bright acidity, oak present but in
> background, and with a nice cedary bent to it. Probably my favorite
> red of night. B+
>
> 1996 Marques de Tomares Gran Reserva Rioja
> Medium-bodied, with lots of cedary oak over a body of red fruit. Not
> quite as bright as the Ardanza, but a nice enough wine. B
>
> 1994 Marqués de Tomares Reserva de la Familia Rioja (from magnum)
> unfortunately corked
>
> With a chocolate cake:
> La Sacristia de Romate Oloroso
> Nutty and caramelly, I liked but didn't take notes. B
>
> Fun evening. Some of the wines weren't to my tastes, but that's part
> of the learning experience. Thanks Drew.
>
> Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

Sounds like an interesting tasting. I had been interested in the El Nido
until I saw the price and with your notes sounds like a no buy at all.

On Mar 21, 11:49�am, Lawrence Leichtman > wrote:
> In article .com>,
>
>
>
>
>
> *"DaleW" > wrote:
> > Last night it was SOBER (Several Oenophiles Being Extremely
> > Rambunctious) night, and we gathered at Drew's house.
>
> > We were greeted with the 1998 Charles Ellner Brut
> > Nice medium-weight Champagne, lots of fresh baked biscuit aroma, clean
> > apple fruit and a good finish. Very nice. B+/A-
>
> > Theme of the evening was Spain. With all of the hype and discussion
> > after the last Wine Advocate, it was fun to taste some of the
> > discussed wines (as well as others).
>
> > There was an assortment of cheeses as well as olives on the table,
> > then a long series of courses started arriving. For the whites there
> > was tomato bread:
>
> > 1995 Lopez y Heredia "Gravonia" Rioja Blanco
> > Full and pretty nose of flowers and nuts, with a vanilla accent.
> > There's general agreement that palate doesn't measure up to the nose -
> > someone says "flat" and I think that sums it up. Great nose though,
> > enough to get it a *B
>
> > 2006 Pirineos Mesache *(I didn't note region on this)
> > Floral and musky, round on the palate. Apparently has some Gewurz, and
> > it shows. Rather tropical fruit, nice different white. B
>
> > With a Spanish tortilla/frittata and the most garlicky aioli I've ever
> > run across (luckily I like garlic), we started on the reds:
>
> > 2003 Rottlan Torra "Amadis" (Priorat)
> > Dark and full, big forward dark fruit- blackberries and black plums.
> > Big powerful wine, but not ungainly. B+
>
> > 2004 *Mas Doix "Salanques" (Priorat)
> > More red fruit driven, lots of oak, very ripe but with more acidity
> > than one might expect. A bit much for me, but tasty - probably a big
> > hit with lovers of luxury CdP cuvees. B
>
> > *2003 El Nido (Jumilla)
> > If previous wine was a bit too much for my tastes, this one is off the
> > charts. Too dense and overextracted for my palate, feeling incredibly
> > heavy in the mouth. Drinking it reminds me of drinking cassis neat- I
> > can't do either. Others comments range from "dry port" to "cough
> > syrup." D
> > (Mark comments that it is better when consumed next to the salad with
> > a high acid vinaigrette, he's right, but that puts it in C territory
> > for me, not a buy at $100+!).
>
> > A big bowl of gazpacho followed, *with
> > 2003 Termes (Toro)
> > This is not as oaky as I expected, but the fruit has a definite stewed
> > overripe bent to me. This is a nice mineral & lead pencil note, but
> > it's drowned by the fruit. C+
>
> > 2004 Numanthia (Toro)
> > More vanilla oak notes than the Termes, big and extracted but the
> > black fruits show a bit fresher than its companion. Big ripe tannins,
> > this isn't my style but its not the caricature that the El Nido is. B
>
> > 2004 Dominio de Atauta (I think this was Ribera del Duero)
> > A lot of oak here again, but with fresher fruit and brighter acidity
> > than some of the preceding wines. Seems almost graceful in comparison,
> > but I found the finish surprisingly short for a big wine. *B
>
> > and with the paella:
>
> > 2000 Artadi "Pagos Viejos" Rioja
> > This is still somewhat oak dominated, with big round fruit and some
> > distinct chocolate notes. A little oaky for me, but a pretty good
> > example of modern styled Rioja. B/B+
>
> > 1999 La Rioja Alta Ardanza
> > Very fresh, clean red fruit , bright acidity, oak present but in
> > background, and with a nice cedary bent to it. *Probably my favorite
> > red of night. B+
>
> > 1996 Marques de Tomares Gran Reserva Rioja
> > Medium-bodied, with lots of cedary oak over a body of red fruit. Not
> > quite as bright as the Ardanza, but a nice enough wine. B
>
> > 1994 Marqués de Tomares Reserva de la Familia Rioja (from magnum)
> > unfortunately corked
>
> > With a chocolate cake:
> > La Sacristia de Romate Oloroso
> > Nutty and caramelly, I liked but didn't take notes. B
>
> > Fun evening. Some of the wines weren't to my tastes, but that's part
> > of the learning experience. Thanks Drew.
>
> > Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> > wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> > drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> > promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
>
> Sounds like an interesting tasting. I had been interested in the El Nido
> until I saw the price and with your notes sounds like a no buy at all.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Well, there are certainly plenty of people who love the style, just a
matter of preferences. But no one in our group (even biggest fan of
big modern wines) went for this. My only regret was that our most
doctrinaire traditionalist (John Gilman, View from the Cellar) was on
a trip to Europe, would have loved to have seen his notes on this one
(he has a section on "Roadkill" in some issues).

"DaleW" > wrote in news:1174484455.458677.126410
@y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
> 1995 Lopez y Heredia "Gravonia" Rioja Blanco
> Full and pretty nose of flowers and nuts, with a vanilla accent.
> There's general agreement that palate doesn't measure up to the nose -
> someone says "flat" and I think that sums it up. Great nose though,
> enough to get it a B

I have never managed to like this wine. Too oxidized for my taste.
>
> 2006 Pirineos Mesache (I didn't note region on this)
> Floral and musky, round on the palate. Apparently has some Gewurz, and
> it shows. Rather tropical fruit, nice different white. B

The region is D.O. Somontano. Retails here at 4,5 euros and is a wine to
be consumed young.
>
> 2004 Mas Doix "Salanques" (Priorat)
> More red fruit driven, lots of oak, very ripe but with more acidity
> than one might expect. A bit much for me, but tasty - probably a big
> hit with lovers of luxury CdP cuvees. B

I have had a wonderful bottle of a prior vintage. I am not very fond of
very strong wines from Priorat and thought this Salanques had an elegant
character. The wine I tasted would be a solid A for me.

>
> 2003 El Nido (Jumilla)
> If previous wine was a bit too much for my tastes, this one is off the
> charts. Too dense and overextracted for my palate, feeling incredibly
> heavy in the mouth. Drinking it reminds me of drinking cassis neat- I
> can't do either. Others comments range from "dry port" to "cough
> syrup." D
> (Mark comments that it is better when consumed next to the salad with
> a high acid vinaigrette, he's right, but that puts it in C territory
> for me, not a buy at $100+!).

I cannot understand this trend to make overwines (over-ripe, over-
extracted, over-oaked). They are trying to impress professional tasters
instead of providing pleasure to wine drinkers. Terroir gets lost and all
you taste is syrup.


>
> A big bowl of gazpacho followed, with
> 2003 Termes (Toro)
> This is not as oaky as I expected, but the fruit has a definite stewed
> overripe bent to me. This is a nice mineral & lead pencil note, but
> it's drowned by the fruit. C+

Please, do not take me wrong, but the only think you should be drinking
with gazpacho is a good Manzanilla or a good Fino. Pairing a gazpacho
with wines from Toro or Ribera del Duero does not make much sense to me.
Sorry if I seem harsh, I do not want anybody to think I want to set an
offense.

>
> 2004 Numanthia (Toro)
> More vanilla oak notes than the Termes, big and extracted but the
> black fruits show a bit fresher than its companion. Big ripe tannins,
> this isn't my style but its not the caricature that the El Nido is. B

I have had Numanthia in the first vintages (1998 and 1999) and never
liked it. For me it is yet another overwine.
>
> 2004 Dominio de Atauta (I think this was Ribera del Duero)
> A lot of oak here again, but with fresher fruit and brighter acidity
> than some of the preceding wines. Seems almost graceful in comparison,
> but I found the finish surprisingly short for a big wine. B

I have been following this wine for all its history. It started in 2000
with a wonderful wine, which was even better in 2001. 2002 was somehow
difficult (and I passed) and 2003 I thought it was too hot (self-
suggestion?) but I had the higher expectations for this 2004. I had a
bottle and thought it was not very expressive. Correct but not the
enjoyable wine it had be in 2000 and 2001.

In 2002, the winery played the game of taking the best parcels out of the
basic wine, and started bottling "Valdegatiles", "La Mala" and "Llanos
del Almendro" as single vineyards. I have been lucky enough to have drunk
a great bottle of La Mala 2002 and an astonishingly good "Valdegatiles"
2003. But the basic "Dominio de Atauta" 2002 and 2003 were not as good as
they should.

I have another bottle of 2004 to be tasted in the next weeks and have
purchased two bottles of Llanos del Almendro 2004 for a special occasion.

BTW, the enologist for the winery is from Chinon (Bertrand Sourdais) and
the vineyards of the winery are in Soria, as east in Ribera as they can
be, and at a very high altitude, which explains why DOminio de Atauta is
usually fresher than the typical Ribera del Duero.
>
> and with the paella:
>
> 2000 Artadi "Pagos Viejos" Rioja
> This is still somewhat oak dominated, with big round fruit and some
> distinct chocolate notes. A little oaky for me, but a pretty good
> example of modern styled Rioja. B/B+

I have enjoyed this wine, and would say B+/A- ;-)
>
> With a chocolate cake:
> La Sacristia de Romate Oloroso
> Nutty and caramelly, I liked but didn't take notes. B

This is surprising. Oloroso with chocolate!!! Was it a sweet oloroso?
(oxymoron, some would say).

Best,

Santiago

On Mar 21, 9:40�am, "DaleW" > wrote:
> Last night it was SOBER (Several Oenophiles Being Extremely
> Rambunctious) night, and we gathered at Drew's house.
>
> We were greeted with the 1998 Charles Ellner Brut
> Nice medium-weight Champagne, lots of fresh baked biscuit aroma, clean
> apple fruit and a good finish. Very nice. B+/A-
>
> Theme of the evening was Spain. With all of the hype and discussion
> after the last Wine Advocate, it was fun to taste some of the
> discussed wines (as well as others).
>
> There was an assortment of cheeses as well as olives on the table,
> then a long series of courses started arriving. For the whites there
> was tomato bread:
>
> 1995 Lopez y Heredia "Gravonia" Rioja Blanco
> Full and pretty nose of flowers and nuts, with a vanilla accent.
> There's general agreement that palate doesn't measure up to the nose -
> someone says "flat" and I think that sums it up. Great nose though,
> enough to get it a *B
>
> 2006 Pirineos Mesache *(I didn't note region on this)
> Floral and musky, round on the palate. Apparently has some Gewurz, and
> it shows. Rather tropical fruit, nice different white. B
>
> With a Spanish tortilla/frittata and the most garlicky aioli I've ever
> run across (luckily I like garlic), we started on the reds:
>
> 2003 Rottlan Torra "Amadis" (Priorat)
> Dark and full, big forward dark fruit- blackberries and black plums.
> Big powerful wine, but not ungainly. B+
>
> 2004 *Mas Doix "Salanques" (Priorat)
> More red fruit driven, lots of oak, very ripe but with more acidity
> than one might expect. A bit much for me, but tasty - probably a big
> hit with lovers of luxury CdP cuvees. B
>
> *2003 El Nido (Jumilla)
> If previous wine was a bit too much for my tastes, this one is off the
> charts. Too dense and overextracted for my palate, feeling incredibly
> heavy in the mouth. Drinking it reminds me of drinking cassis neat- I
> can't do either. Others comments range from "dry port" to "cough
> syrup." D
> (Mark comments that it is better when consumed next to the salad with
> a high acid vinaigrette, he's right, but that puts it in C territory
> for me, not a buy at $100+!).
>
> A big bowl of gazpacho followed, *with
> 2003 Termes (Toro)
> This is not as oaky as I expected, but the fruit has a definite stewed
> overripe bent to me. This is a nice mineral & lead pencil note, but
> it's drowned by the fruit. C+
>
> 2004 Numanthia (Toro)
> More vanilla oak notes than the Termes, big and extracted but the
> black fruits show a bit fresher than its companion. Big ripe tannins,
> this isn't my style but its not the caricature that the El Nido is. B
>
> 2004 Dominio de Atauta (I think this was Ribera del Duero)
> A lot of oak here again, but with fresher fruit and brighter acidity
> than some of the preceding wines. Seems almost graceful in comparison,
> but I found the finish surprisingly short for a big wine. *B
>
> and with the paella:
>
> 2000 Artadi "Pagos Viejos" Rioja
> This is still somewhat oak dominated, with big round fruit and some
> distinct chocolate notes. A little oaky for me, but a pretty good
> example of modern styled Rioja. B/B+
>
> 1999 La Rioja Alta Ardanza
> Very fresh, clean red fruit , bright acidity, oak present but in
> background, and with a nice cedary bent to it. *Probably my favorite
> red of night. B+
>
> 1996 Marques de Tomares Gran Reserva Rioja
> Medium-bodied, with lots of cedary oak over a body of red fruit. Not
> quite as bright as the Ardanza, but a nice enough wine. B
>
> 1994 Marqués de Tomares Reserva de la Familia Rioja (from magnum)
> unfortunately corked
>
> With a chocolate cake:
> La Sacristia de Romate Oloroso
> Nutty and caramelly, I liked but didn't take notes. B
>
> Fun evening. Some of the wines weren't to my tastes, but that's part
> of the learning experience. Thanks Drew.
>
> Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.

I've had the Termes, the Termanthia and the Numanthia. Just larger
iterations of each other and I agree with your assessment. Too much
of everything. I was gifted a few bottles of each from a local
distributor and was told to give them at least five years. I'll
report back!

On 22 Mar 2007 15:59:11 +0100, Santiago > wrote:

>"DaleW" > wrote in news:1174484455.458677.126410
:
>>
>> 1995 Lopez y Heredia "Gravonia" Rioja Blanco
>> Full and pretty nose of flowers and nuts, with a vanilla accent.
>> There's general agreement that palate doesn't measure up to the nose -
>> someone says "flat" and I think that sums it up. Great nose though,
>> enough to get it a B
>
>I have never managed to like this wine. Too oxidized for my taste.

That's a wine I'll look for. I've always loved Lopez y Heredia reds
and not experienced the whites. Flowers (violet? lavender?) and nuts
with vanilla are good things to me. A bit oxydized brings to mind a
fino--and the nuts & vanilla notes seem to carry that through. Sure
wish L y H showed up more in the heartland shops.
>>
>> 2003 El Nido (Jumilla)
>> If previous wine was a bit too much for my tastes, this one is off the
>> charts. Too dense and overextracted for my palate, feeling incredibly
>> heavy in the mouth. Drinking it reminds me of drinking cassis neat- I
>> can't do either. Others comments range from "dry port" to "cough
>> syrup." D
>> (Mark comments that it is better when consumed next to the salad with
>> a high acid vinaigrette, he's right, but that puts it in C territory
>> for me, not a buy at $100+!).
>
>I cannot understand this trend to make overwines (over-ripe, over-
>extracted, over-oaked). They are trying to impress professional tasters
>instead of providing pleasure to wine drinkers. Terroir gets lost and all
>you taste is syrup.

I think (ergo sum), that the "over" characteristic is applicable to
American and Oz products and generally subdued in European
wines--comments on ugly, unsophisticated American tourists may be
inserted here, but will be ignored to maintain the dignity of the
assemblage.

When European producers get into the over-ripe, over-extracted styles
they seem to usually be appealing to their export markets. I'm
thinking the Super-Tuscan movement is a good example.
>
>
>>
>> A big bowl of gazpacho followed, with
>> 2003 Termes (Toro)
>> This is not as oaky as I expected, but the fruit has a definite stewed
>> overripe bent to me. This is a nice mineral & lead pencil note, but
>> it's drowned by the fruit. C+
>
>Please, do not take me wrong, but the only think you should be drinking
>with gazpacho is a good Manzanilla or a good Fino. Pairing a gazpacho
>with wines from Toro or Ribera del Duero does not make much sense to me.
>Sorry if I seem harsh, I do not want anybody to think I want to set an
>offense.

Glad I read the follow-up posts before dumping my opinion in that
gazpacho simply doesn't work with red wines. The Manzanilla or Fino
suggestion sounds great to me and I'll try that this summer when
gazpacho shows up in my house. I've leaned in the past toward sangria
with gazpacho.
>

>>
>> and with the paella:
>>
>> 2000 Artadi "Pagos Viejos" Rioja
>> This is still somewhat oak dominated, with big round fruit and some
>> distinct chocolate notes. A little oaky for me, but a pretty good
>> example of modern styled Rioja. B/B+
>
>I have enjoyed this wine, and would say B+/A- ;-)

Paella is another one of those almost impossible to pair with wine
foods. A Valenciana style, heavy on mariscos usually leads me to a
crisp white. Something more Andalusian calls for a fruity red like
your matching here. I'd also like sangria again as well as a chilled
cru Beaujolais--chicken pieces and "song birds" in the paella? If
chorizo and pork then maybe a big zin?
>>
>> With a chocolate cake:
>> La Sacristia de Romate Oloroso
>> Nutty and caramelly, I liked but didn't take notes. B
>
>This is surprising. Oloroso with chocolate!!! Was it a sweet oloroso?
>(oxymoron, some would say).

I'd call "sweet oloroso" more redundancy than oxymoron. But, I can
sure see it working with chocolate.

It makes me long for a summer sunday evening in Madrid with late
dinner at Callejon followed by "un copa de cognac" or maybe a "sol y
sombra" in the Plaza Santa Anna.



Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
www.thunderchief.org
www.thundertales.blogspot.com

On Mar 22, 10:59�am, Santiago > wrote:
> "DaleW" > wrote in news:1174484455.458677.126410
> @y80g2000hsf.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > 1995 Lopez y Heredia "Gravonia" Rioja Blanco
> > Full and pretty nose of flowers and nuts, with a vanilla accent.
> > There's general agreement that palate doesn't measure up to the nose -
> > someone says "flat" and I think that sums it up. Great nose though,
> > enough to get it a *B
>
> I have never managed to like this wine. Too oxidized for my taste.
>
>
>
> > 2006 Pirineos Mesache *(I didn't note region on this)
> > Floral and musky, round on the palate. Apparently has some Gewurz, and
> > it shows. Rather tropical fruit, nice different white. B
>
> The region is D.O. Somontano. Retails here at 4,5 euros and is a wine to
> be consumed young.
>
>
>
> > 2004 *Mas Doix "Salanques" (Priorat)
> > More red fruit driven, lots of oak, very ripe but with more acidity
> > than one might expect. A bit much for me, but tasty - probably a big
> > hit with lovers of luxury CdP cuvees. B
>
> I have had a wonderful bottle of a prior vintage. I am not very fond of
> very strong wines from Priorat and thought this Salanques had an elegant
> character. The wine I tasted would be a solid A for me.
>
>
>
> > *2003 El Nido (Jumilla)
> > If previous wine was a bit too much for my tastes, this one is off the
> > charts. Too dense and overextracted for my palate, feeling incredibly
> > heavy in the mouth. Drinking it reminds me of drinking cassis neat- I
> > can't do either. Others comments range from "dry port" to "cough
> > syrup." D
> > (Mark comments that it is better when consumed next to the salad with
> > a high acid vinaigrette, he's right, but that puts it in C territory
> > for me, not a buy at $100+!).
>
> I cannot understand this trend to make overwines (over-ripe, over-
> extracted, over-oaked). They are trying to impress professional tasters
> instead of providing pleasure to wine drinkers. Terroir gets lost and all
> you taste is syrup.
>
>
>
> > A big bowl of gazpacho followed, *with
> > 2003 Termes (Toro)
> > This is not as oaky as I expected, but the fruit has a definite stewed
> > overripe bent to me. This is a nice mineral & lead pencil note, but
> > it's drowned by the fruit. C+
>
> Please, do not take me wrong, but the only think you should be drinking
> with gazpacho is a good Manzanilla or a good Fino. Pairing a gazpacho
> with wines from Toro or Ribera del Duero does not make much sense to me.
> Sorry if I seem harsh, I do not want anybody to think I want to set an
> offense.
>
>
>
> > 2004 Numanthia (Toro)
> > More vanilla oak notes than the Termes, big and extracted but the
> > black fruits show a bit fresher than its companion. Big ripe tannins,
> > this isn't my style but its not the caricature that the El Nido is. B
>
> I have had Numanthia in the first vintages (1998 and 1999) and never
> liked it. For me it is yet another overwine.
>
>
>
> > 2004 Dominio de Atauta (I think this was Ribera del Duero)
> > A lot of oak here again, but with fresher fruit and brighter acidity
> > than some of the preceding wines. Seems almost graceful in comparison,
> > but I found the finish surprisingly short for a big wine. *B
>
> I have been following this wine for all its history. It started in 2000
> with a wonderful wine, which was even better in 2001. 2002 was somehow
> difficult (and I passed) and 2003 I thought it was too hot (self-
> suggestion?) but I had the higher expectations for this 2004. I had a
> bottle and thought it was not very expressive. Correct but not the
> enjoyable wine it had be in 2000 and 2001.
>
> In 2002, the winery played the game of taking the best parcels out of the *
> basic wine, and started bottling "Valdegatiles", "La Mala" and "Llanos
> del Almendro" as single vineyards. I have been lucky enough to have drunk
> a great bottle of La Mala 2002 and an astonishingly good "Valdegatiles"
> 2003. But the basic "Dominio de Atauta" 2002 and 2003 were not as good as
> they should.
>
> I have another bottle of 2004 to be tasted in the next weeks and have
> purchased two bottles of Llanos del Almendro 2004 for a special occasion.
>
> BTW, the enologist for the winery is from Chinon (Bertrand Sourdais) and
> the vineyards of the winery are in Soria, as east in Ribera as they can
> be, and at a very high altitude, which explains why DOminio de Atauta is
> usually fresher than the typical Ribera del Duero.
>
>
>
> > and with the paella:
>
> > 2000 Artadi "Pagos Viejos" Rioja
> > This is still somewhat oak dominated, with big round fruit and some
> > distinct chocolate notes. A little oaky for me, but a pretty good
> > example of modern styled Rioja. B/B+
>
> I have enjoyed this wine, and would say B+/A- ;-)
>
>
>
> > With a chocolate cake:
> > La Sacristia de Romate Oloroso
> > Nutty and caramelly, I liked but didn't take notes. B
>
> This is surprising. Oloroso with chocolate!!! Was it a sweet oloroso?
> (oxymoron, some would say).
>
> Best,
>
> Santiago

Santiago,
The Gravonia actually didn't show as many oxidative notes as other
vintages (1991,l think 1987) I've tried. Still, any Lopez Heredia is
likely to be a matter of taste.

Thanks for info re the Somontano. I think Drew paid a LOT more than
that.

As to the gazpacho- believe me, no offense, I didn't do the pairing!
I'm not a big sherry drinker, but think of gazpacho as calling for a
lighter white or maybe sparkling. I don't know any red that could
stand up to the acidity (though maybe a rose). I was actually kind of
stunned when the big bowl arrived in front of me. I basically ate some
with San Pellegrino, then had some bread and aged gouda with the
reds.

As to the Dominio de Atauta, I think lots of us have watched as
favorite Rhones started putting best juice into the luxury cuvees, at
the expense of the base bottling.

The oloroso indeed have some sweetness - not Pedro X sweetness, but
nowhere near dry.

Thanks for info!

On Mar 22, 11:57�am, Ed Rasimus > wrote:
> On 22 Mar 2007 15:59:11 +0100, Santiago > wrote:
>
> >"DaleW" > wrote in news:1174484455.458677.126410
> :
>
> >> 1995 Lopez y Heredia "Gravonia" Rioja Blanco
> >> Full and pretty nose of flowers and nuts, with a vanilla accent.
> >> There's general agreement that palate doesn't measure up to the nose -
> >> someone says "flat" and I think that sums it up. Great nose though,
> >> enough to get it a *B
>
> >I have never managed to like this wine. Too oxidized for my taste.
>
> That's a wine I'll look for. I've always loved Lopez y Heredia reds
> and not experienced the whites. Flowers (violet? lavender?) and nuts
> with vanilla are good things to me. A bit oxydized brings to mind a
> fino--and the nuts & vanilla notes seem to carry that through. Sure
> wish L y H showed up more in the heartland shops.
>
>
>
> >> *2003 El Nido (Jumilla)
> >> If previous wine was a bit too much for my tastes, this one is off the
> >> charts. Too dense and overextracted for my palate, feeling incredibly
> >> heavy in the mouth. Drinking it reminds me of drinking cassis neat- I
> >> can't do either. Others comments range from "dry port" to "cough
> >> syrup." D
> >> (Mark comments that it is better when consumed next to the salad with
> >> a high acid vinaigrette, he's right, but that puts it in C territory
> >> for me, not a buy at $100+!).
>
> >I cannot understand this trend to make overwines (over-ripe, over-
> >extracted, over-oaked). They are trying to impress professional tasters
> >instead of providing pleasure to wine drinkers. Terroir gets lost and all
> >you taste is syrup.
>
> I think (ergo sum), that the "over" characteristic is applicable to
> American and Oz products and generally subdued in European
> wines--comments on ugly, unsophisticated American tourists may be
> inserted here, but will be ignored to maintain the dignity of the
> assemblage.
>
> When European producers get into the over-ripe, over-extracted styles
> they seem to usually be appealing to their export markets. I'm
> thinking the Super-Tuscan movement is a good example.
>
>
>
> >> A big bowl of gazpacho followed, *with
> >> 2003 Termes (Toro)
> >> This is not as oaky as I expected, but the fruit has a definite stewed
> >> overripe bent to me. This is a nice mineral & lead pencil note, but
> >> it's drowned by the fruit. C+
>
> >Please, do not take me wrong, but the only think you should be drinking
> >with gazpacho is a good Manzanilla or a good Fino. Pairing a gazpacho
> >with wines from Toro or Ribera del Duero does not make much sense to me.
> >Sorry if I seem harsh, I do not want anybody to think I want to set an
> >offense.
>
> Glad I read the follow-up posts before dumping my opinion in that
> gazpacho simply doesn't work with red wines. The Manzanilla or Fino
> suggestion sounds great to me and I'll try that this summer when
> gazpacho shows up in my house. I've leaned in the past toward sangria
> with gazpacho.
>
>
>
> >> and with the paella:
>
> >> 2000 Artadi "Pagos Viejos" Rioja
> >> This is still somewhat oak dominated, with big round fruit and some
> >> distinct chocolate notes. A little oaky for me, but a pretty good
> >> example of modern styled Rioja. B/B+
>
> >I have enjoyed this wine, and would say B+/A- ;-)
>
> Paella is another one of those almost impossible to pair with wine
> foods. A Valenciana style, heavy on mariscos usually leads me to a
> crisp white. Something more Andalusian calls for a fruity red like
> your matching here. I'd also like sangria again as well as a chilled
> cru Beaujolais--chicken pieces and "song birds" in the paella? If
> chorizo and pork then maybe a big zin?
>
>
>
> >> With a chocolate cake:
> >> La Sacristia de Romate Oloroso
> >> Nutty and caramelly, I liked but didn't take notes. B
>
> >This is surprising. Oloroso with chocolate!!! Was it a sweet oloroso?
> >(oxymoron, some would say).
>
> I'd call "sweet oloroso" more redundancy than oxymoron. But, I can
> sure see it working with chocolate.
>
> It makes me long for a summer sunday evening in Madrid with late
> dinner at Callejon followed by "un copa de cognac" or maybe a "sol y
> sombra" in the Plaza Santa Anna.
>
> Ed Rasimus
> Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
> "When Thunder Rolled"
> *www.thunderchief.org
> *www.thundertales.blogspot.com

Ed,
as noted to Santiago I agree re the gazpacho.
As to paella, I've found rose to be a splendid match.

On Mar 22, 11:30�am, "Bi!!" > wrote:
> On Mar 21, 9:40?am, "DaleW" > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Last night it was SOBER (Several Oenophiles Being Extremely
> > Rambunctious) night, and we gathered at Drew's house.
>
> > We were greeted with the 1998 Charles Ellner Brut
> > Nice medium-weight Champagne, lots of fresh baked biscuit aroma, clean
> > apple fruit and a good finish. Very nice. B+/A-
>
> > Theme of the evening was Spain. With all of the hype and discussion
> > after the last Wine Advocate, it was fun to taste some of the
> > discussed wines (as well as others).
>
> > There was an assortment of cheeses as well as olives on the table,
> > then a long series of courses started arriving. For the whites there
> > was tomato bread:
>
> > 1995 Lopez y Heredia "Gravonia" Rioja Blanco
> > Full and pretty nose of flowers and nuts, with a vanilla accent.
> > There's general agreement that palate doesn't measure up to the nose -
> > someone says "flat" and I think that sums it up. Great nose though,
> > enough to get it a ?B
>
> > 2006 Pirineos Mesache ?(I didn't note region on this)
> > Floral and musky, round on the palate. Apparently has some Gewurz, and
> > it shows. Rather tropical fruit, nice different white. B
>
> > With a Spanish tortilla/frittata and the most garlicky aioli I've ever
> > run across (luckily I like garlic), we started on the reds:
>
> > 2003 Rottlan Torra "Amadis" (Priorat)
> > Dark and full, big forward dark fruit- blackberries and black plums.
> > Big powerful wine, but not ungainly. B+
>
> > 2004 ?Mas Doix "Salanques" (Priorat)
> > More red fruit driven, lots of oak, very ripe but with more acidity
> > than one might expect. A bit much for me, but tasty - probably a big
> > hit with lovers of luxury CdP cuvees. B
>
> > ?2003 El Nido (Jumilla)
> > If previous wine was a bit too much for my tastes, this one is off the
> > charts. Too dense and overextracted for my palate, feeling incredibly
> > heavy in the mouth. Drinking it reminds me of drinking cassis neat- I
> > can't do either. Others comments range from "dry port" to "cough
> > syrup." D
> > (Mark comments that it is better when consumed next to the salad with
> > a high acid vinaigrette, he's right, but that puts it in C territory
> > for me, not a buy at $100+!).
>
> > A big bowl of gazpacho followed, ?with
> > 2003 Termes (Toro)
> > This is not as oaky as I expected, but the fruit has a definite stewed
> > overripe bent to me. This is a nice mineral & lead pencil note, but
> > it's drowned by the fruit. C+
>
> > 2004 Numanthia (Toro)
> > More vanilla oak notes than the Termes, big and extracted but the
> > black fruits show a bit fresher than its companion. Big ripe tannins,
> > this isn't my style but its not the caricature that the El Nido is. B
>
> > 2004 Dominio de Atauta (I think this was Ribera del Duero)
> > A lot of oak here again, but with fresher fruit and brighter acidity
> > than some of the preceding wines. Seems almost graceful in comparison,
> > but I found the finish surprisingly short for a big wine. ?B
>
> > and with the paella:
>
> > 2000 Artadi "Pagos Viejos" Rioja
> > This is still somewhat oak dominated, with big round fruit and some
> > distinct chocolate notes. A little oaky for me, but a pretty good
> > example of modern styled Rioja. B/B+
>
> > 1999 La Rioja Alta Ardanza
> > Very fresh, clean red fruit , bright acidity, oak present but in
> > background, and with a nice cedary bent to it. ?Probably my favorite
> > red of night. B+
>
> > 1996 Marques de Tomares Gran Reserva Rioja
> > Medium-bodied, with lots of cedary oak over a body of red fruit. Not
> > quite as bright as the Ardanza, but a nice enough wine. B
>
> > 1994 Marqu?de Tomares Reserva de la Familia Rioja (from magnum)
> > unfortunately corked
>
> > With a chocolate cake:
> > La Sacristia de Romate Oloroso
> > Nutty and caramelly, I liked but didn't take notes. B
>
> > Fun evening. Some of the wines weren't to my tastes, but that's part
> > of the learning experience. Thanks Drew.
>
> > Grade disclaimer: I'm a very easy grader, basically A is an excellent
> > wine, B a good wine, C mediocre. Anything below C means I wouldn't
> > drink at a party where it was only choice. Furthermore, I offer no
> > promises of objectivity, accuracy, and certainly not of consistency.
>
> I've had the Termes, the Termanthia and the Numanthia. *Just larger
> iterations of each other and I agree with your assessment. *Too much
> of everything. *I was gifted a few bottles of each from a local
> distributor and was told to give them at least five years. *I'll
> report back!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

It's certainly POSSIBLE these will age well.