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Default 'Chianti' Riserva?

"filippo" > wrote:

> So, Michael, were you at the Anteprima this year?


Yes, again, after two unsuccessful trials in 2005 (caught a flu
the day before leaving Vienna for Florence) and 2006 (my wife got
a kidney stone on day two in Florence so we drove back
immediately).

> Shame there was no chance to meet and chat.


True.

> I think that it would be nice if usenetizens made themselves
> recognisable in events like these.


I usually wear the badge with my name.

> Maybe next year, who knows?, the Consortium will allow a small
> meet.ing.poi.nt to be arranged..


Good idea!

M.
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Michael Pronay :
> "filippo"
> > So, Michael, were you at the Anteprima this year?

>
> Yes, again, after two unsuccessful trials in 2005 (caught a flu
> the day before leaving Vienna for Florence) and 2006 (my wife got
> a kidney stone on day two in Florence so we drove back
> immediately).


Then may I wish you a long series of successful attendances to the
next Anteprimas..

>
> > Shame there was no chance to meet and chat.

>
> True.


Hopefully next year.

>
> > I think that it would be nice if usenetizens made themselves
> > recognisable in events like these.

>
> I usually wear the badge with my name.


I was wearing the badge provided by the Consorzio, but it had no name
on it! Just written "produttore" on it, which is hard to believe but
true. Honestly, all seemed to be devised not to help the mixing of
people at that meeting.. On a next occasion (at any meeting) I will
provide my own badge(s) :-/

>
> > Maybe next year, who knows?, the Consortium will allow a small
> > meet.ing.poi.nt to be arranged..

>
> Good idea!


I am a bit pessimistic on this, though. Everything looks as if the
atmosphere about public discussions is a long way behind, say, the one
characterising the Consorzio Tutela Vino Soave: after arranging a very
interesting meeting between Italian wine-bloggers and many wine-
producers (see for instance:
http://www.aristide.biz/2007/03/wine_blogger_e_.html
for an account, in Italian I am afraid),
they have just opened their own blog,
http://ilsoave.blogspot.com/index.html
and I thing that for a consortium this is a very remarkable fact
indeed!
Hopefully others are willing (and going) to emulate them.

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On Mar 16, 11:12 am, "filippo" > wrote:
> Michael Pronay :
>
> > "filippo"
> > > So, Michael, were you at the Anteprima this year?

>
> > Yes, again, after two unsuccessful trials in 2005 (caught a flu
> > the day before leaving Vienna for Florence) and 2006 (my wife got
> > a kidney stone on day two in Florence so we drove back
> > immediately).

>
> Then may I wish you a long series of successful attendances to the
> next Anteprimas..
>
>
>
> > > Shame there was no chance to meet and chat.

>
> > True.

>
> Hopefully next year.
>
>
>
> > > I think that it would be nice if usenetizens made themselves
> > > recognisable in events like these.

>
> > I usually wear the badge with my name.

>
> I was wearing the badge provided by the Consorzio, but it had no name
> on it! Just written "produttore" on it, which is hard to believe but
> true. Honestly, all seemed to be devised not to help the mixing of
> people at that meeting.. On a next occasion (at any meeting) I will
> provide my own badge(s) :-/


"Badges!? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't
have to show you any stinking badges!!"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinking_badges

>
>
>
> > > Maybe next year, who knows?, the Consortium will allow a small
> > > meet.ing.poi.nt to be arranged..

>
> > Good idea!

>
> I am a bit pessimistic on this, though. Everything looks as if the
> atmosphere about public discussions is a long way behind, say, the one
> characterising the Consorzio Tutela Vino Soave: after arranging a very
> interesting meeting between Italian wine-bloggers and many wine-
> producers (see for instance:http://www.aristide.biz/2007/03/wine_blogger_e_.html
> for an account, in Italian I am afraid),
> they have just opened their own blog,http://ilsoave.blogspot.com/index.html
> and I thing that for a consortium this is a very remarkable fact
> indeed!
> Hopefully others are willing (and going) to emulate them.



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"filippo" > wrote:

>>> So, Michael, were you at the Anteprima this year?


>> Yes, again, after two unsuccessful trials in 2005 (caught a flu
>> the day before leaving Vienna for Florence) and 2006 (my wife
>> got a kidney stone on day two in Florence so we drove back
>> immediately).


> Then may I wish you a long series of successful attendances to
> the next Anteprimas.


Thank you Filippo, but there was a serial of fine Anteprimas
beforehand, from 1997 (iirc) uninterrupted up to 2004.

> I was wearing the badge provided by the Consorzio, but it had no
> name on it! Just written "produttore" on it, which is hard to
> believe but true. Honestly, all seemed to be devised not to help
> the mixing of people at that meeting.. On a next occasion (at
> any meeting) I will provide my own badge(s) :-/


Excellent idea! Btw, I will carry another badge with the mention
"Non avvino!".

Anyhow, I look forward meeting you next year. If you like, I will
bring along a decent bottle of Grüner Veltliner for you to taste.

M.
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"UC"
> "filippo"
> > Michael Pronay :



> > > I usually wear the badge with my name.


> > I was wearing the badge provided by the Consorzio, but it had no name
> > on it! Just written "produttore" on it, which is hard to believe but
> > true. Honestly, all seemed to be devised not to help the mixing of
> > people at that meeting.. On a next occasion (at any meeting) I will
> > provide my own badge(s) :-/


> "Badges!? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't
> have to show you any stinking badges!!"



"..nothing but a lot of talk and a badge!"

;-)



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Michael Pronay:
> "filippo"



> > ..On a next occasion (at
> > any meeting) I will provide my own badge(s) :-/

>
> Excellent idea! Btw, I will carry another badge with the mention
> "Non avvino!".


:-))

>
> Anyhow, I look forward meeting you next year. If you like, I will
> bring along a decent bottle of Grüner Veltliner for you to taste.


Very nice of you, thank you very much. I will bring along a bottle of
mine, then, since if I will be there, it will be for oil, officially,
not wine.


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On Mar 19, 11:24 am, "filippo" > wrote:
> Michael Pronay:
>
> > "filippo"
> > > ..On a next occasion (at
> > > any meeting) I will provide my own badge(s) :-/

>
> > Excellent idea! Btw, I will carry another badge with the mention
> > "Non avvino!".

>
> :-))
>
>
>
> > Anyhow, I look forward meeting you next year. If you like, I will
> > bring along a decent bottle of Grüner Veltliner for you to taste.

>
> Very nice of you, thank you very much. I will bring along a bottle of
> mine, then, since if I will be there, it will be for oil, officially,
> not wine.




To me there is no problem with teh brand name 'Chianti' and the region
'Chianti' not being identical. What troubles me is the quality of
what comes in the bottle of "Chianti Riserva", which was nothing
special.

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UC wrote:

> To me there is no problem with teh brand name 'Chianti' and the region
> 'Chianti' not being identical.


Well, to me there is, although maybe not from the point of view of the
wine drinker, I have to admit.


> What troubles me is the quality of
> what comes in the bottle of "Chianti Riserva", which was nothing
> special.


Maybe you want to be more specific. Or is/was this a general problem
with any bottle of Chianti (either Classico or not) Riserva?
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On Mar 19, 3:14 pm, filippo > wrote:
> UC wrote:
> > To me there is no problem with teh brand name 'Chianti' and the region
> > 'Chianti' not being identical.

>
> Well, to me there is, although maybe not from the point of view of the
> wine drinker, I have to admit.
>
> > What troubles me is the quality of
> > what comes in the bottle of "Chianti Riserva", which was nothing
> > special.

>
> Maybe you want to be more specific. Or is/was this a general problem
> with any bottle of Chianti (either Classico or not) Riserva?


Did you read this thread? I bought a $10 bottle of "Chianti
Riserva" (not "Chianti Classico Riserva") and was less than impressed
with its contents. Any typical $10-12 Sicilian Nero d'Avola blows it
away.

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UC wrote:

> Did you read this thread? I bought a $10 bottle of "Chianti
> Riserva" (not "Chianti Classico Riserva") and was less than impressed
> with its contents. Any typical $10-12 Sicilian Nero d'Avola blows it
> away.
>


Oh, I see.. You are talking about the Chianti Riserva of the start of
the thread, the Via Firenze. Apparently this Campagna Gello is a
bottler, probably specialized on the US market. There seems to be an
Apulian red bottled by them too: IGT Puglia Primitivo "Il Valore",
see for instance:
http://winecast.net/2006/07/06/campa...rimitivo-2004/
Then they sell this Chianti Arcano:
http://www.winesworld.net/wine30e.asp?velg=Italy&V2=734
There is also another Chianti Riserva by them, "Familia Cara":
http://www.corkd.com/wine/view/17854

Also..
http://italianwinelabels.com/browse/18/1571/326


Chances are that they do not see a single grape in their activity, and
that they only buy wines by the bulk and bottle/label it for a market
they choose. Personally, I would prefer to buy wine from those who make
it, rather than from those who merely label it and sell it. But this may
be a biased position of mine.


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On Mar 19, 4:48 pm, filippo > wrote:
> UC wrote:
> > Did you read this thread? I bought a $10 bottle of "Chianti
> > Riserva" (not "Chianti Classico Riserva") and was less than impressed
> > with its contents. Any typical $10-12 Sicilian Nero d'Avola blows it
> > away.

>
> Oh, I see.. You are talking about the Chianti Riserva of the start of
> the thread, the Via Firenze. Apparently this Campagna Gello is a
> bottler, probably specialized on the US market. There seems to be an
> Apulian red bottled by them too: IGT Puglia Primitivo "Il Valore",
> see for instance:http://winecast.net/2006/07/06/campa...rimitivo-2004/
> Then they sell this Chianti Arcano:http://www.winesworld.net/wine30e.asp?velg=Italy&V2=734
> There is also another Chianti Riserva by them, "Familia Cara":http://www.corkd.com/wine/view/17854
>
> Also..http://italianwinelabels.com/browse/18/1571/326
>
> Chances are that they do not see a single grape in their activity, and
> that they only buy wines by the bulk and bottle/label it for a market
> they choose. Personally, I would prefer to buy wine from those who make
> it, rather than from those who merely label it and sell it. But this may
> be a biased position of mine.




I agree. My thread was about this particular wine.

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UC wrote:

> I agree. My thread was about this particular wine.


You are totally right. My apologies for hijacking your thread
with my fixed thought ;-)
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On Mar 19, 7:40 pm, filippo > wrote:
> UC wrote:
> > I agree. My thread was about this particular wine.

>
> You are totally right. My apologies for hijacking your thread
> with my fixed thought ;-)




I think the marketing of a Chianti Riserva is a bit odd. Plain
'Chianti' is supposed to be a cheap wine, or at least that's what I
thought. Why a $10 plain Chianti Riserva? It doesn't make any sense!
Riservas are supposed to be special lots of wine from the best
vineyards, right?

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"UC"
> filippo
>
> > UC wrote:
> > > I agree. My thread was about this particular wine.

>
> > You are totally right. My apologies for hijacking your thread
> > with my fixed thought ;-)

>
> I think the marketing of a Chianti Riserva is a bit odd.


Generally speaking, you mean? Why so?

> Plain 'Chianti' is supposed to be a cheap wine, or at least that's what I
> thought.


Actually, it should not be supposed to be a "cheap wine". It is
supposed to be _on_ _average_ less pricy than a Chianti Classico. But
not a cheap wine, in theory. It depends on the specific implementation
of the Chianti-whatever wine: generally speaking a single estate wine
should ensure a more accurate product, still on the average.


> Why a $10 plain Chianti Riserva? It doesn't make any sense!
> Riservas are supposed to be special lots of wine from the best
> vineyards, right?


Yes, in general "riserva" is supposed to be a selection and not made
every year, but only in the best vintages. This theoretically
speaking.
They should be fuller bodied, and aged for longer. Again: on average.
A 10$ Chianti Riserva, i.e. a Chianti Riserva which reaches the US
final customer at 10$ per bottle, with all you lot told me about the
three-tier system of US wine distribution, would mean that this wine
left the bottler at about 2 $ per bottle, which sounds pretty low
price.
Maybe in this case the 3-tier system was just not operating, dunno...



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On Mar 20, 11:51 am, "filippo" > wrote:
> "UC"
>
> > filippo

>
> > > UC wrote:
> > > > I agree. My thread was about this particular wine.

>
> > > You are totally right. My apologies for hijacking your thread
> > > with my fixed thought ;-)

>
> > I think the marketing of a Chianti Riserva is a bit odd.

>
> Generally speaking, you mean? Why so?
>
> > Plain 'Chianti' is supposed to be a cheap wine, or at least that's what I
> > thought.

>
> Actually, it should not be supposed to be a "cheap wine". It is
> supposed to be _on_ _average_ less pricy than a Chianti Classico. But
> not a cheap wine, in theory. It depends on the specific implementation
> of the Chianti-whatever wine: generally speaking a single estate wine
> should ensure a more accurate product, still on the average.
>
> > Why a $10 plain Chianti Riserva? It doesn't make any sense!
> > Riservas are supposed to be special lots of wine from the best
> > vineyards, right?

>
> Yes, in general "riserva" is supposed to be a selection and not made
> every year, but only in the best vintages. This theoretically
> speaking.
> They should be fuller bodied, and aged for longer. Again: on average.
> A 10$ Chianti Riserva, i.e. a Chianti Riserva which reaches the US
> final customer at 10$ per bottle, with all you lot told me about the
> three-tier system of US wine distribution, would mean that this wine
> left the bottler at about 2 $ per bottle, which sounds pretty low
> price.
> Maybe in this case the 3-tier system was just not operating, dunno...


I don't know if it would have been even that much. In any event, I
thought the wine was not good at all, because it had no flavor to
speak of. It was neutral-tasting, like water, but it was deeply
colored and not 'watery' in texture. I suggested the dealer not buy
any more, but he said someone ordered a case of it!



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UC wrote:

>..I
> thought the wine was not good at all, because it had no flavor to
> speak of. It was neutral-tasting, like water, but it was deeply
> colored and not 'watery' in texture. I suggested the dealer not buy
> any more,


to say the very least..
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On Mar 20, 3:28 pm, filippo > wrote:
> UC wrote:
> >..I
> > thought the wine was not good at all, because it had no flavor to
> > speak of. It was neutral-tasting, like water, but it was deeply
> > colored and not 'watery' in texture. I suggested the dealer not buy
> > any more,

>
> to say the very least..




But someone thought highly of it!! Is it possible I got a flajey
bottle? the wine was not 'bad' (I have had 'bad' wine before), but it
simply was not 'good'.

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UC wrote:
> filippo


>> UC wrote:
>>> ..I
>>> thought the wine was not good at all, because it had no flavor to
>>> speak of. It was neutral-tasting, like water, but it was deeply
>>> colored and not 'watery' in texture. I suggested the dealer not buy
>>> any more,

>> to say the very least..

>
>
>
> But someone thought highly of it!! Is it possible I got a flajey
> bottle? the wine was not 'bad' (I have had 'bad' wine before), but it
> simply was not 'good'.


Relative notions of "good", "bad", and "ugly", I suppose.
A wine which is:

a- neutral tasting
b- like water
c- deeply coloured
d- "not 'watery' " in texture (i.e. tannins like a tarmac, I guess)

we may dispute about whether it is "not good" or "bad", as long and
fiercely as we want, but:
I think I will hardly find myself fighting in order to get the last
glass of it.
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On Mar 20, 5:06 pm, filippo > wrote:
> UC wrote:
> > filippo
> >> UC wrote:
> >>> ..I
> >>> thought the wine was not good at all, because it had no flavor to
> >>> speak of. It was neutral-tasting, like water, but it was deeply
> >>> colored and not 'watery' in texture. I suggested the dealer not buy
> >>> any more,
> >> to say the very least..

>
> > But someone thought highly of it!! Is it possible I got a flajey
> > bottle? the wine was not 'bad' (I have had 'bad' wine before), but it
> > simply was not 'good'.

>
> Relative notions of "good", "bad", and "ugly", I suppose.
> A wine which is:
>
> a- neutral tasting
> b- like water
> c- deeply coloured
> d- "not 'watery' " in texture (i.e. tannins like a tarmac, I guess)
>
> we may dispute about whether it is "not good" or "bad", as long and
> fiercely as we want, but:
> I think I will hardly find myself fighting in order to get the last
> glass of it.


What I mean was the bottle was not spoilt, but it wasn't 'good'.

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UC wrote:
> filippo


>> Relative notions of "good", "bad", and "ugly", I suppose.
>> A wine which is:
>>
>> a- neutral tasting
>> b- like water
>> c- deeply coloured
>> d- "not 'watery' " in texture (i.e. tannins like a tarmac, I guess)
>>
>> we may dispute about whether it is "not good" or "bad", as long and
>> fiercely as we want, but:
>> I think I will hardly find myself fighting in order to get the last
>> glass of it.

>
> What I mean was the bottle was not spoilt, but it wasn't 'good'.


I understand, but I believe that by now (at least since the advent of
widespread oenological wisdom and common sense) we can rule out the
cases of blatantly faulty wine, and speak of the above mentioned kind of
wines in terms of "bad" wine.
The faulty ones may well deserve the appellative of "ugly", I think.



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On Mar 20, 5:52 pm, filippo > wrote:
> UC wrote:
> > filippo
> >> Relative notions of "good", "bad", and "ugly", I suppose.
> >> A wine which is:

>
> >> a- neutral tasting
> >> b- like water
> >> c- deeply coloured
> >> d- "not 'watery' " in texture (i.e. tannins like a tarmac, I guess)

>
> >> we may dispute about whether it is "not good" or "bad", as long and
> >> fiercely as we want, but:
> >> I think I will hardly find myself fighting in order to get the last
> >> glass of it.

>
> > What I mean was the bottle was not spoilt, but it wasn't 'good'.

>
> I understand, but I believe that by now (at least since the advent of
> widespread oenological wisdom and common sense) we can rule out the
> cases of blatantly faulty wine, and speak of the above mentioned kind of
> wines in terms of "bad" wine.
> The faulty ones may well deserve the appellative of "ugly", I think.




Maybe you should try to get some of this wine; maybe I was wrong about
it. I need a second opinion.

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UC wrote:

> Maybe you should try to get some of this wine; maybe I was wrong about
> it. I need a second opinion.


I will try and get it, but seems unlikely I can find it: never heard of.
I will let you know if I can make it. Or I could always go and pay visit
to the bottling guys, near Pisa..;-)


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