Hello,

As a casual red-wine drinker (a glass with dinner, 3-4 times a week) I am
far from being an expert, but I have my favorites, usually Pinot Noirs.
Recently I came across a couple of bottles of Chianti, which I really liked
and enjoyed.

I'd like to get some more information (and opinions) about Chianti.
Directions to good info links, and your opinions, would be welcome.

Thanks for any assistance,

Jay

J J Levin wrote:

> As a casual red-wine drinker (a glass with dinner, 3-4 times a week) I am
> far from being an expert, but I have my favorites, usually Pinot Noirs.
> Recently I came across a couple of bottles of Chianti, which I really liked
> and enjoyed.

That makes sense. Both Pinot Noir and Chianti are medium-bodied reds,
as opposed to Cabernet Sauvignon and Bordeaux, which are heavier-bodied
wines. The flavor profiles of the two wines are quite different, however.

>
> I'd like to get some more information (and opinions) about Chianti.
> Directions to good info links, and your opinions, would be welcome.

OK, first of all, Chianti is a region in Italy, not a grape type. The
most important (sometimes the only) grape of Chianti is Sangiovese.
There are other regions in Tuscany that make wine from Sangiovese, but
Chianti is the best known and can produce some of the finest wines.

Within the Chianti region, there are eight (I think) subzones, of which
the most famous is the Chianti Classico region in the center. However,
good wines are made in other regions such as Chianti Colli Senesi. The
most basic wines are just labeled "Chianti." Also, wines from Chianti
that are aged for a minimum of 27 months in barrel before bottling are
classed as "Riserva" and tend to be bigger, more powerful wines.

The most commonly encountered Chiantis are from the big firms such as
Gabbiano, Ruffino and Banfi. If you can, look for Chianti Classicos
from smaller producers. Two of my favorites are Fattoria Felsina and
Castello di Ama. These are wines that actually improve with a bit of
age and their Riservas can be quite spectacular (and expensive).

Some links with basic information:

http://www.answers.com/topic/chianti...-classico-docg
http://www.epicurious.com/drinking/w.../entry?id=5890
http://www.italianmade.com/wines/doc10009.cfm

HTH
Mark Lipton

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
>J J Levin wrote:
>
>> As a casual red-wine drinker (a glass with dinner, 3-4 times a week) I am
>> far from being an expert, but I have my favorites, usually Pinot Noirs.
>> Recently I came across a couple of bottles of Chianti, which I really
>> liked
>> and enjoyed.
>
> That makes sense. Both Pinot Noir and Chianti are medium-bodied reds,
> as opposed to Cabernet Sauvignon and Bordeaux, which are heavier-bodied
> wines. The flavor profiles of the two wines are quite different, however.
>
>>
>> I'd like to get some more information (and opinions) about Chianti.
>> Directions to good info links, and your opinions, would be welcome.
>
> OK, first of all, Chianti is a region in Italy, not a grape type. The
> most important (sometimes the only) grape of Chianti is Sangiovese.
> There are other regions in Tuscany that make wine from Sangiovese, but
> Chianti is the best known and can produce some of the finest wines.
>
> Within the Chianti region, there are eight (I think) subzones, of which
> the most famous is the Chianti Classico region in the center. However,
> good wines are made in other regions such as Chianti Colli Senesi. The
> most basic wines are just labeled "Chianti." Also, wines from Chianti
> that are aged for a minimum of 27 months in barrel before bottling are
> classed as "Riserva" and tend to be bigger, more powerful wines.
>
> The most commonly encountered Chiantis are from the big firms such as
> Gabbiano, Ruffino and Banfi. If you can, look for Chianti Classicos
> from smaller producers. Two of my favorites are Fattoria Felsina and
> Castello di Ama. These are wines that actually improve with a bit of
> age and their Riservas can be quite spectacular (and expensive).
>
> Some links with basic information:
>
> http://www.answers.com/topic/chianti...-classico-docg
> http://www.epicurious.com/drinking/w.../entry?id=5890
> http://www.italianmade.com/wines/doc10009.cfm
>
> HTH
> Mark Lipton


1. Many thanks!!

2. What's HTH ??


Jay





>

"J J Levin" > skrev i melding
...
> "Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
> ...
> 2. What's HTH ??
>
Hope this helps! :-)
Anders

> I still don't get it, what does HTH mean? ;-)

IITYWYBMAFL?

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article >, says...
>
>Hello,
>
>As a casual red-wine drinker (a glass with dinner, 3-4 times a week) I am
>far from being an expert, but I have my favorites, usually Pinot Noirs.
>Recently I came across a couple of bottles of Chianti, which I really liked
>and enjoyed.
>
>I'd like to get some more information (and opinions) about Chianti.
>Directions to good info links, and your opinions, would be welcome.
>
>Thanks for any assistance,
>
>Jay

To add to Mark's imformative post, I find that Chianti is often a bit higher
in acid, than most PNs. While PNs go well with a very broad range of food, one
with a tomato base/sauce goes really well with a Chianti. If I see an Italian
red-sauce, I immediately think of Chianti, then Barbaresco, maybe young
Barolo, depending on other elements, but Chianti first.

I also find that, in very general terms, Chiantis [plural?] are not as good as
"sipping" wines, as are many PNs. They thrive with slightly acidic foods. As
with many "Old World" wines, they have grown up alongside the food of the
region of origin. I think that for once, UC might actually agree with me -
though maybe not. I hate to see a distributor of Chianti pouring some nice
wines at a "tasting" without the proper foods to accompany them.

Maybe I have always been lucky, but all of the Chiantis that I have
purchased/consumed over the last 30 years have been good, to excellent wines.
Now I, unlike many in this NG, do still recall the "fiaschi" bottle of Chianti
and how retched it most often was. Interesting side note: the bottle shape was
a "fiasco," or "flask," but I still recall the wine having been a fiasco in a
US sense. The bottle was always good for inserting colored (coloured, for our
wonderful UK friends ;-} ) candles and setting on the coffee table, repleat
with blacklight posters, etc. Fortunately, those days are long gone, though
there has been talk of resurrecting the straw-covered fiaschi for drinkable,
but lower-end Chianti. I'm not sure how I feel about that. In the "old days,"
the bottle cost more than the wine contained inside.

What are some, that you have consumed lately, that you really liked?

Hunt

Hunt wrote:

> I also find that, in very general terms, Chiantis [plural?] are not as good as
> "sipping" wines, as are many PNs.

I've only had a few Chianti's from Italy but have tried numerous
California Sangiovese's which I find very nice for sipping. Any easy
lighter bodied red. In general are there big differences between and
Italian Chianti and California Sangiovese? I realize either could be
blended although most Californias I've tried are 100% Sangiovese.

> Interesting side note: the bottle shape was
> a "fiasco," or "flask," but I still recall the wine having been a fiasco in a
> US sense.

The two words are related. "Fiasco" in the UK sense comes (via France)
from the Italian phrase "far fiasco" - to make a bottle. It is
speculated that the sense of that came from the practice of Venitian
glassmakers to set aside imperfect glass to make a common bottle, or flask.

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

In article >, says...
>
>Hunt wrote:
>
>> I also find that, in very general terms, Chiantis [plural?] are not as good
as
>
>> "sipping" wines, as are many PNs.
>
>I've only had a few Chianti's from Italy but have tried numerous
>California Sangiovese's which I find very nice for sipping. Any easy
>lighter bodied red. In general are there big differences between and
>Italian Chianti and California Sangiovese? I realize either could be
>blended although most Californias I've tried are 100% Sangiovese.

Until fairly recently, I would have disagreed with you. The earlier exception
would have been the Shafer Firebreak Sangiovese, which also had Cab S. blended
in. Other than that one domestic Sangiovese, I had yet to taste one, that I
would have bought - Atlas Peak Reserve included.

However, about six years ago, I spent some time in the Amador/Sierra Foothills
area, and tasted some excellent domestic (US) Sangioveses. And, yes, these are
different wines, than Chianti, and good wines all the way 'round. I'm sure
that there were and are some, that I have not had the pleasure to sample. As
is typical with New World reds, the US Sangiovese wines are a bit more
extracted and concentrated, with lower acid, than their Italian counterparts.
Good? Bad? Different? I choose "different."

Lately, I've been getting some from the Santa Cruz Mtn. area, via Picchetti,
that have been wonderful, though a tad more Zin-like. Or, maybe Zen-like...
The biggest problem for most US wineos, is that the really good ones, do not
see much distribution, and, in general, the better Sangiovese representatives
are still from Italy.

My main references were, based on my wine career, biased toward the Italian
Sangiovese wines.

What domestic (again, US) Sangiovese wines have you really enjoyed?

Hunt

"Hunt" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, says...
>>
>>Hunt wrote:
>>
>>> I also find that, in very general terms, Chiantis [plural?] are not as
>>> good
> as
>>
>>> "sipping" wines, as are many PNs.
>>
>>I've only had a few Chianti's from Italy but have tried numerous
>>California Sangiovese's which I find very nice for sipping. Any easy
>>lighter bodied red.


Your post is most informative, and I appreciate it. You seem to be quite
experienced. What other lighter bodied reds would you recommend that I try,
in addition to Chianti, PN, and Sangiovese?

Thanks,

Jay

Hunt wrote:

> In article >,
> says...
>>
>>Hunt wrote:
>>
>>> I also find that, in very general terms,
>>> Chiantis [plural?] are not as good
> as
>>
>>> "sipping" wines, as are many PNs.
>>
>>I've only had a few Chianti's from Italy but
>>have tried numerous
>>California Sangiovese's which I find very nice
>>for sipping. Any easy
>>lighter bodied red. In general are there big
>>differences between and
>>Italian Chianti and California Sangiovese? I
>>realize either could be blended although most
>>Californias I've tried are 100% Sangiovese.
>
> Until fairly recently, I would have disagreed
> with you. The earlier exception would have been
> the Shafer Firebreak Sangiovese, which also had
> Cab S. blended in. Other than that one domestic
> Sangiovese, I had yet to taste one, that I would
> have bought - Atlas Peak Reserve included.
>
> However, about six years ago, I spent some time
> in the Amador/Sierra Foothills area, and tasted
> some excellent domestic (US) Sangioveses. And,
> yes, these are different wines, than Chianti,
> and good wines all the way 'round. I'm sure that
> there were and are some, that I have not had the
> pleasure to sample. As is typical with New World
> reds, the US Sangiovese wines are a bit more
> extracted and concentrated, with lower acid,
> than their Italian counterparts. Good? Bad?
> Different? I choose "different."
>
> Lately, I've been getting some from the Santa
> Cruz Mtn. area, via Picchetti, that have been
> wonderful, though a tad more Zin-like. Or, maybe
> Zen-like... The biggest problem for most US
> wineos, is that the really good ones, do not see
> much distribution, and, in general, the better
> Sangiovese representatives are still from Italy.
>
> My main references were, based on my wine
> career, biased toward the Italian Sangiovese
> wines.
>
> What domestic (again, US) Sangiovese wines have
> you really enjoyed?
>
> Hunt

I am an amateur winemaker. I make a "Super
Tuscan" stype wine by using Sangiovese and
Cabernet Sauvignon. From my experience I prefere
to use the Mid Atlantic Cabernet (where I live -
Maryland) to the California Cabernet because the
California Cabernet from the Central Valley are
just too "Jammy" to make a good blend. The
acidity of the Sangiovese and the Cabernet - or
Merlot - go together VERY well. I think that
perhaps some on the west coast are trying blends
with Sangiovse. It is an EXCELLENT grape for
blending and if you are lucky enought to get a
good Sangiovese, it makes a good wine on its own.

Hunt wrote:

> What domestic (again, US) Sangiovese wines have you really enjoyed?

These have been some of my favorite Sangiovese's. Your comment about
the better wines not being distributed is correct. While Cambria is a
larger winery who distributes their wines worldwide, the Sangiovese is
small production only sold locally. Meridian is also a larger winery
and makes an excellent Sangiovese but does not distribute it outside the
region. I find the larger wineries tend to only distribute their lower
end mass production wines. At the winery they often offer some
excellent small production wines.

Ivan Thomas, Livermore, CA
Cambria, Santa Maria, CA
Midnight Cellars, Paso Robles, CA
Meridian, Paso Robles, CA

J J Levin wrote:
> "Hunt" > wrote in message
> ...
>> In article >, says...
>>> Hunt wrote:
>>>
>>>> I also find that, in very general terms, Chiantis [plural?] are not as
>>>> good
>> as
>>>> "sipping" wines, as are many PNs.
>>> I've only had a few Chianti's from Italy but have tried numerous
>>> California Sangiovese's which I find very nice for sipping. Any easy
>>> lighter bodied red.
>
>
> Your post is most informative, and I appreciate it. You seem to be quite
> experienced. What other lighter bodied reds would you recommend that I try,
> in addition to Chianti, PN, and Sangiovese?

Some other lighter bodied reds a Beaujolais (though the better
examples are usually labeled by "Cru," such as Fleurie or Morgon), such
as Drouhin's Beaujolais-Villages and Dolcetto D'Alba from Italy. Also,
in case you haven't heard this already, the red wine of Burgundy (the
real stuff from France) is Pinot Noir, too. Again, Drouhin's 2004 "La
Forêt" Pinot Noir is a decent example. Alas, it's a sign of the times
that lighter bodied reds have fallen out of favor and have been
supplanted by big fruit bomb reds from CA, Australia and -- increasingly
-- Europe. Lighter red wines are a lot easier to serve with food than
the big, oaky fruit bombs.

Mark Lipton

"Mark Lipton" > wrote in message
...
>J J Levin wrote:
>> "Hunt" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> In article >, says...
>>>> Hunt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I also find that, in very general terms, Chiantis [plural?] are not as
>>>>> good
>>> as
>>>>> "sipping" wines, as are many PNs.
>>>> I've only had a few Chianti's from Italy but have tried numerous
>>>> California Sangiovese's which I find very nice for sipping. Any easy
>>>> lighter bodied red.
>>
>>
>> Your post is most informative, and I appreciate it. You seem to be quite
>> experienced. What other lighter bodied reds would you recommend that I
>> try,
>> in addition to Chianti, PN, and Sangiovese?
>
> Some other lighter bodied reds a Beaujolais (though the better
> examples are usually labeled by "Cru," such as Fleurie or Morgon), such
> as Drouhin's Beaujolais-Villages and Dolcetto D'Alba from Italy. Also,
> in case you haven't heard this already, the red wine of Burgundy (the
> real stuff from France) is Pinot Noir, too. Again, Drouhin's 2004 "La
> Forêt" Pinot Noir is a decent example. Alas, it's a sign of the times
> that lighter bodied reds have fallen out of favor and have been
> supplanted by big fruit bomb reds from CA, Australia and -- increasingly
> -- Europe. Lighter red wines are a lot easier to serve with food than
> the big, oaky fruit bombs.
>
> Mark Lipton


Mark, you're the one who started replying to me, and I've learned a great
deal, for which I thank you.

"Big oaky fruity bombs" -- would those be Cab, Shiraz, etc. ??

Jay

J J Levin wrote:

> "Big oaky fruity bombs" -- would those be Cab, Shiraz, etc. ??

Yup, but it's a style that can applied to most anything. There are
"modern" or "International" Chiantis that are also oaky fruit bombs.
However, it's a lot easier to make a big fruit bomb from Shiraz or
Zinfandel than it is from Pinot Noir (though that doesn't stop people
from trying).

Happy drinking,
Mark Lipton

Here is our old FAQ on chianti:

Chianti Classico
Contributors
Joseph Rosenberg

Jerry Spotto

What are the subzone of chianti classico?" and "What are the other zones of
chiant besides classico?"
Joseph informs us "There are no books that I know that delineate zones
within Chianti Classico but Victor Hazen's Italian Wine published in 1982 by
Knopf talks about charactertistics of each of the commune's cited earlier on
pages 35-41 and even throws in a map of chianti classico townships. Any one
who took one of my classes was taught about these commune's ala Hazan.

For the record they a

S.Casciano Val di Pesa--includes Mercantale Val di Pesa, Montefridolfi and
S.Andrea in Percussina

Greve--La Mole, S.Polo in Chianti, Strada in Chianti

Tavernalle in Val di Pesa--Badia a Passignano, S.Donato in Poggio

Barberino Val d'Elsa

Radda in Chianti

Castellina in Chianti

Gaiole in Chianti--includes Ama in Chianti

Poggiobonsi

Castelnuevo Berardenga--includes Ceretto, Pianella, Quercegrossa, S.Gusme,
Vagliagli

I once tried unsuccessfully to do a tasting with a wine from each of these
"townships" but failed because a wine from each township wasn't available.
Hazan also thought that outside the borders of classico; chiantis >
montalbano and rufina made excellent riservas. To confuse matters further
some chianti zones overlap with other DOC/Gs-

For instance if you grow sangiovese in the Chianti Montalbano zone it can
also be used for Carmignano normale or Riserva or Barco Reale; in the
Chianti Colli Senese depending on where you are located you can also produce
Vino Nobile or Rosso di Montepulciano or Rosso or Brunello di Montalcino.
And finally some chianti producers have estates on the borders of two of the
zones like Pasolini Dall Onda whose chianti wines had grapes from the
classico and colli fiorentini zone.

When I represented Marc DeGrazia in Maryland, Marco had producers in the the
Radda, Greve and Gaiole areas so he insisted that only long lived Chianti
were made East of the old road (strada) from Florence (Firenze) going south
bisecting the Classico zone; of course that does not account for Monsanto or
Felsina but it made for good sales pitch anyway."

Jerry added that there are not 5 but 7 Sub-Regions in Chianti:

Classico

Colli Senesi

Rufina

Colli Fiorentini

Montalbano

Colli Aretini

Colline Pisani



"J J Levin" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Hunt" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, says...
> >>
> >>Hunt wrote:
> >>
> >>> I also find that, in very general terms, Chiantis [plural?] are not as
> >>> good
> > as
> >>
> >>> "sipping" wines, as are many PNs.
> >>
> >>I've only had a few Chianti's from Italy but have tried numerous
> >>California Sangiovese's which I find very nice for sipping. Any easy
> >>lighter bodied red.
>
>
> Your post is most informative, and I appreciate it. You seem to be quite
> experienced. What other lighter bodied reds would you recommend that I
try,
> in addition to Chianti, PN, and Sangiovese?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jay
>
>

Mark - I think that might be the most informative and helpful response I;ve
ever seen on this NG. Way to go man.


>
>> As a casual red-wine drinker (a glass with dinner, 3-4 times a week) I am
>> far from being an expert, but I have my favorites, usually Pinot Noirs.
>> Recently I came across a couple of bottles of Chianti, which I really
>> liked
>> and enjoyed.
>
> That makes sense. Both Pinot Noir and Chianti are medium-bodied reds,
> as opposed to Cabernet Sauvignon and Bordeaux, which are heavier-bodied
> wines. The flavor profiles of the two wines are quite different, however.
>
>>
>> I'd like to get some more information (and opinions) about Chianti.
>> Directions to good info links, and your opinions, would be welcome.
>
> OK, first of all, Chianti is a region in Italy, not a grape type. The
> most important (sometimes the only) grape of Chianti is Sangiovese.
> There are other regions in Tuscany that make wine from Sangiovese, but
> Chianti is the best known and can produce some of the finest wines.
>
> Within the Chianti region, there are eight (I think) subzones, of which
> the most famous is the Chianti Classico region in the center. However,
> good wines are made in other regions such as Chianti Colli Senesi. The
> most basic wines are just labeled "Chianti." Also, wines from Chianti
> that are aged for a minimum of 27 months in barrel before bottling are
> classed as "Riserva" and tend to be bigger, more powerful wines.
>
> The most commonly encountered Chiantis are from the big firms such as
> Gabbiano, Ruffino and Banfi. If you can, look for Chianti Classicos
> from smaller producers. Two of my favorites are Fattoria Felsina and
> Castello di Ama. These are wines that actually improve with a bit of
> age and their Riservas can be quite spectacular (and expensive).
>
> Some links with basic information:
>
> http://www.answers.com/topic/chianti...-classico-docg
> http://www.epicurious.com/drinking/w.../entry?id=5890
> http://www.italianmade.com/wines/doc10009.cfm
>
> HTH
> Mark Lipton
>

Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg wrote:

[cut]

> Jerry added that there are not 5 but 7 Sub-Regions in Chianti:
>
> Classico
> Colli Senesi
> Rufina
> Colli Fiorentini
> Montalbano
> Colli Aretini
> Colline Pisani


Actually the subregions are eight now. There's a recent addition:

Montespertoli


Below I have fixed some typos occuring in the localities names (in case
someone wishes to update the faqs).

Greetings from Tuscany.

DM
http://www.poderedellorto.it


*************

Here is our old FAQ on chianti:

Chianti Classico
Contributors
Joseph Rosenberg

Jerry Spotto

What are the subzone of chianti classico?" and "What are the other zones of
chiant besides classico?"
Joseph informs us "There are no books that I know that delineate zones
within Chianti Classico but Victor Hazen's Italian Wine published in 1982 by
Knopf talks about charactertistics of each of the commune's cited earlier on
pages 35-41 and even throws in a map of chianti classico townships. Any one
who took one of my classes was taught about these commune's ala Hazan.

For the record they a

S.Casciano in Val di Pesa--includes Mercatale Val di Pesa, Montefiridolfi
and S.Andrea in Percussina

Greve in Chianti--La Mole, Panzano in Chianti, S.Polo in Chianti, Strada in
Chianti

Tavarnelle Val di Pesa--Badia a Passignano, S.Donato in Poggio

Barberino Val d'Elsa

Radda in Chianti

Castellina in Chianti

Gaiole in Chianti--includes Ama in Chianti

Poggiobonsi

Castelnuovo Berardenga--includes Cerreto, Pianella, Quercegrossa, S.Gusmè,
Vagliagli

I once tried unsuccessfully to do a tasting with a wine from each of these
"townships" but failed because a wine from each township wasn't available.
Hazan also thought that outside the borders of classico; chiantis >
montalbano and rufina made excellent riservas. To confuse matters further
some chianti zones overlap with other DOC/Gs-

For instance if you grow sangiovese in the Chianti Montalbano zone it can
also be used for Carmignano normale or Riserva or Barco Reale; in the
Chianti Colli Senesi depending on where you are located you can also produce
Vino Nobile or Rosso di Montepulciano or Rosso or Brunello di Montalcino.
And finally some chianti producers have estates on the borders of two of the
zones like Pasolini Dall'Onda whose chianti wines had grapes from the
classico and colli fiorentini zone.

When I represented Marc DeGrazia in Maryland, Marco had producers in the the
Radda, Greve and Gaiole areas so he insisted that only long lived Chianti
were made East of the old road (strada) from Florence (Firenze) going south
bisecting the Classico zone; of course that does not account for Monsanto or
Felsina but it made for good sales pitch anyway."

Jerry added that there are not 5 but 8 Sub-Regions in Chianti:

Classico

Colli Senesi

Rufina

Colli Fiorentini

Montalbano

Colli Aretini

Colline Pisane

Montespertoli

J J Levin wrote:

[cut]
> I'd like to get some more information (and opinions) about Chianti.
> Directions to good info links,

This is the official website of the consortium of Chianti Classico
producers:

http://www.chianticlassico.com/english/home.htm

Although not being the most typical sample of Chianti Classico I would
suggest you to try Fonterutoli Chianti Classico.

Greetings from Tuscany.


DM
http://www.poderedellorto.it

> As a casual red-wine drinker (a glass with dinner, 3-4 times a week) I am
> far from being an expert, but I have my favorites, usually Pinot Noirs.
> Recently I came across a couple of bottles of Chianti, which I really liked
> and enjoyed.
>
> I'd like to get some more information (and opinions) about Chianti.
> Directions to good info links, and your opinions, would be welcome.

Look for DOCG and the black rooster on the bottle neck. Fonteruli is a
good one, though, as someone else said, not typical of the style. Most
good ones are about $40US, though there are a number of sub-$20US
delights out there. Lamole di Lamole comes to mind. Castello di
Verazzano does as well.

Good Chianti is very good. 2001 and 2004 are the best vintages I have
had. "Riserva" refers to oak barrel maturation, though some use the
Slovick big casks which impart much less oak than traditional french
oak barrels.

here's a link to my personal website about a tasting I attended in
Chianti a few months ago:

http://www.rdewald.com/tuscany/Chianti_Review.html

that's mostly stuff for my friends, you mileage may vary...\

J J Levin wrote:
> Hello,
>
> As a casual red-wine drinker (a glass with dinner, 3-4 times a week) I am
> far from being an expert, but I have my favorites, usually Pinot Noirs.
> Recently I came across a couple of bottles of Chianti, which I really liked
> and enjoyed.
>
> I'd like to get some more information (and opinions) about Chianti.
> Directions to good info links, and your opinions, would be welcome.
>
> Thanks for any assistance,
>
> Jay

Chianti is both a region of Italy (in Toscana or Tuscany in English)
and a wine. All Chianti must contain a certain percentage of Sangiovese
grapes. Wine made from grapes within the delimited Chianti region are
labelled merely "Chianti". Similar wines are produced in Toscana from
the same grape varieties, but not of the same mix or quality, may be
called "Sangiovese di Toscana" or some such name.

Chianti comprises several sub-zones, of which the most important are
Chianti Classico and Chianti Rufina. I prefer Rufina to Classico wines.

The subzones a Colli Aretini, Colli Fiorentini, Colli Senesi,
Colline Pisane, Montalbano, Montespertoli and Rufina.

http://www.beveragebusiness.com/bbco...nesto0302.html

In addition to Chianti, there is another wine extremely similar to
Chianti produced in an area near Chianti, which is called Vino Nobile
di Montepulciano.

Both Chianti and Vino Nobile di Montepulciano are produced in plain and
riserva versions, the latter of which are made with greater care and
aged longer, and of course sell for a higher price. Yet another
somewhat similar wine from Tuscany that is worth looking into is called
Carmignano (named after a town),.

Look at this site, and roll the cursor over the names and the mapo will
highlight the region.

http://www.winecountry.it/regions/tuscany/winelist.php

Other wines of note are Morellino di Scansano, Bolgheri or Bolgheri
Sassicaia, and Brunello di Montalcino, the most intense and expensive
wine made in Tuscany from traditional Tuscan grapes. Bottles of
Brunello di Montalcino start at around $50.

> In addition to Chianti, there is another wine extremely similar to
> Chianti produced in an area near Chianti, which is called Vino Nobile
> di Montepulciano.

Is this also called Montepulciano, without the preface?

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jose wrote:
> > In addition to Chianti, there is another wine extremely similar to
> > Chianti produced in an area near Chianti, which is called Vino Nobile
> > di Montepulciano.
>
> Is this also called Montepulciano, without the preface?

No, that's Montepulciano d'Abruzzo, an entirely different wine and
grape.
>
> Jose
> --
> "There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
> what they are." - (mike).
> for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

> No, that's Montepulciano d'Abruzzo, an entirely different wine and
> grape.

Sheesh. Those Italians. They have a different word for everything!

Jose
--
"There are 3 secrets to the perfect landing. Unfortunately, nobody knows
what they are." - (mike).
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

UC skrev i dette:
> Jose wrote:
>>> In addition to Chianti, there is another wine extremely similar to
>>> Chianti produced in an area near Chianti, which is called Vino
>>> Nobile di Montepulciano.
>>
>> Is this also called Montepulciano, without the preface?
>
> No, that's Montepulciano d'Abruzzo, an entirely different wine and
> grape.

Or - more precise - the /grape/ is Montepulciano. Wines from this grape
produced i the region Abruzzo can belong to the /DOC/ Montepulciano
d'Abruzzi. The grape is very common all the way down from Marche to Apulia.
But not in the wellknovn comune di Montepulciano where the grape Sangiovese
rules but under cover using the name Prugnolo gentile.
Confused?

regards
Jan

--
A few photos can be found on http://jan.boegh.net/foto.htm

No, its easy---wines of the town Montepulciano(more like a bus stop) are
made from a clone of sangiovese called prugnolo, the DOCG wine is Vino
Nobile di Montepulciano and is yet to be discovered by lifestyle
publications like the Wine Spectator. Look for Avignonesi, Dei & Gracciano.

Montepulciano, the wine, is thought to have prugnolo in its genetic
background and some times is blended with sangiovese. Pepe and
Valentini(sp) are the top producers then there is a huge drop in quality
"Jan Boegh" <spamhater@nowhere> wrote in message
k...
> UC skrev i dette:
> > Jose wrote:
> >>> In addition to Chianti, there is another wine extremely similar to
> >>> Chianti produced in an area near Chianti, which is called Vino
> >>> Nobile di Montepulciano.
> >>
> >> Is this also called Montepulciano, without the preface?
> >
> > No, that's Montepulciano d'Abruzzo, an entirely different wine and
> > grape.
>
> Or - more precise - the /grape/ is Montepulciano. Wines from this grape
> produced i the region Abruzzo can belong to the /DOC/ Montepulciano
> d'Abruzzi. The grape is very common all the way down from Marche to
Apulia.
> But not in the wellknovn comune di Montepulciano where the grape
Sangiovese
> rules but under cover using the name Prugnolo gentile.
> Confused?
>
> regards
> Jan
>
> --
> A few photos can be found on http://jan.boegh.net/foto.htm
>

Jan Boegh wrote:

> Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg skrev i

>> Look for Avignonesi,

> And if You get the chance: taste their Vino Nobile - and hear the angels
> sing.

May be you meant their "Vin Santo", did you?


DM
http://www.poderedellorto.it

Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg skrev i
dette:

> No, its easy

Probably. On the other hand - now I'm confused?
What constitutes one of the most charming hill top towns as a bus stop? In
my book that term is rather degrading - but may be its just a lack in my
understanding of the english language.

> and is yet to be discovered by lifestyle
> publications like the Wine Spectator

Let's hope they never do! But the time when Montepulciano was a well kept
secret is over - it's getting overrun by tourists theese days.

> Look for Avignonesi,
And if You get the chance: taste their Vino Nobile - and hear the angels
sing.

You forgot Poliziano - imo the best of the big producers.
Also Del Cerro is worth mentioning (also for their great Montefalco estate,
Colpetrone, but that's another story).

> Dei &
> Gracciano.

Only midrange imo.

regards
Jan

--
A few photos can be found on http://jan.boegh.net/foto.htm

Jan Boegh wrote:
> Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg skrev i
> dette:
>
> > No, its easy
>
> Probably. On the other hand - now I'm confused?
> What constitutes one of the most charming hill top towns as a bus stop? In
> my book that term is rather degrading - but may be its just a lack in my
> understanding of the english language.
>
> > and is yet to be discovered by lifestyle
> > publications like the Wine Spectator
>
> Let's hope they never do! But the time when Montepulciano was a well kept
> secret is over - it's getting overrun by tourists theese days.
>
> > Look for Avignonesi,
> And if You get the chance: taste their Vino Nobile - and hear the angels
> sing.
>
> You forgot Poliziano - imo the best of the big producers.
> Also Del Cerro is worth mentioning (also for their great Montefalco estate,
> Colpetrone, but that's another story).
>
> > Dei &
> > Gracciano.
>
> Only midrange imo.
>
> regards
> Jan
>
> --
> A few photos can be found on http://jan.boegh.net/foto.htm

Poliziano and Tiberini are the best I have been able to secure around
here.

Der Pizzameister wrote:
> Jan Boegh wrote:
>
> > Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg skrev i
>
> >> Look for Avignonesi,
>
> > And if You get the chance: taste their Vino Nobile - and hear the angels
> > sing.
>
> May be you meant their "Vin Santo", did you?

I can actually get 2 vintages of their Vin Santo locally - the 1989 and
1991, but at around $140 for a 375ml bottle! That's more than most
vintages of Yquem!

Can anybody here comment about whether or not they're "worth it"? I
usually splurge right around this time of the year, when my bonus check
arrives...

- Chris

Der Pizzameister skrev i
dette:
> Jan Boegh wrote:
>
>> Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg skrev i
>
>>> Look for Avignonesi,
>
>> And if You get the chance: taste their Vino Nobile - and hear the
>> angels sing.
>
> May be you meant their "Vin Santo", did you?

You're absolutely right.

regards
Jan

--
A few photos can be found on http://jan.boegh.net/foto.htm

Chris Sprague skrev i
dette:

> I can actually get 2 vintages of their Vin Santo locally - the 1989
> and 1991, but at around $140 for a 375ml bottle! That's more than
> most vintages of Yquem!
> Can anybody here comment about whether or not they're "worth it"? I
> usually splurge right around this time of the year, when my bonus
> check arrives...

I have tasted the '89. It's a wonder - no less. But if any drinkable stuff -
except perhaps a sip of the Well of Youth ;-) - is worth $140 for half a bt.
is imo not a question with a rational answer.
I and a few friends sometimes buy an exceptional bottle for tasting - and in
that context i would find the Vin Santo '89 recommendable.
On the other hand - I do not see myself as a very qualified advisor
regarding such incredible expensive bottles - my experiences are to few to
have reliable references.

regards
Jan


--
A few photos can be found on http://jan.boegh.net/foto.htm

UC skrev i dette:

> Poliziano and Tiberini are the best I have been able to secure around
> here.

Oh - I have not tasted the Tiberini. Is it the 'Podere Le Gaggiole'. The
price seems to be reasonable, so i could be worth trying.

regards
Jan

--
A few photos can be found on http://jan.boegh.net/foto.htm

I'd have to say for my budget I couldn't really justify $140 for a
half-bottle of any dessert wne. If I was going to spend that much for
an '89 dessert, it would be the Huet Cuvee Constance, about same price
tag. But then I haven't had the '89 Avignonesi. I did havethe
Avignonesi '90 Vin Santo, it was quite tasty, but not so much I could
see buying it.

Chris Sprague wrote:
> Der Pizzameister wrote:
> > Jan Boegh wrote:
> >
> > > Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg skrev i
> >
> > >> Look for Avignonesi,
> >
> > > And if You get the chance: taste their Vino Nobile - and hear the angels
> > > sing.
> >
> > May be you meant their "Vin Santo", did you?
>
> I can actually get 2 vintages of their Vin Santo locally - the 1989 and
> 1991, but at around $140 for a 375ml bottle! That's more than most
> vintages of Yquem!
>
> Can anybody here comment about whether or not they're "worth it"? I
> usually splurge right around this time of the year, when my bonus check
> arrives...
>
> - Chris

DaleW wrote:
> I'd have to say for my budget I couldn't really justify $140 for a
> half-bottle of any dessert wne. If I was going to spend that much for
> an '89 dessert, it would be the Huet Cuvee Constance, about same price
> tag. But then I haven't had the '89 Avignonesi. I did havethe
> Avignonesi '90 Vin Santo, it was quite tasty, but not so much I could
> see buying it.

It did seem rather expensive. That being said, the store that is
selling it, so I've heard (by way of eavesdropping on a conversation an
employee was having with someone during a wine tasting) that they'll be
liquidating this winter, and will close for a few months while they
search for another location.

If they have a firesale, maybe I'll pick it up. Maybe I'll save the
money and put it towards an old vintage Madeira, something that's been
on my wish list for awhile.

Jan Boegh wrote:
> UC skrev i dette:
>
> > Poliziano and Tiberini are the best I have been able to secure around
> > here.
>
> Oh - I have not tasted the Tiberini. Is it the 'Podere Le Gaggiole'. The
> price seems to be reasonable, so i could be worth trying.
>


The Tiberini Riserva sells for about $25 in Ohio .

bus stop--I was being facetious---at one time I represented "the other
Gracciano" which has since has been sold to Ruffino--I was in and out of the
area twice and just rode through the town---did eat in the Avigonesi's
restaurant with Marco & Yano DeGrazia (in 1985).

13 years later I was supposed to go to Montepulciano from Rome in a rental
car but the car rental people had leased the only automatic transmission car
to a relative, so they got me a room for the night. Graaciano's owner Sig
Vota picked me up in Rome and took me back--so it was around midnight going
through the town.....
"Jan Boegh" <spamhater@nowhere> wrote in message
...
> Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg skrev i
> dette:
>
> > No, its easy
>
> Probably. On the other hand - now I'm confused?
> What constitutes one of the most charming hill top towns as a bus stop? In
> my book that term is rather degrading - but may be its just a lack in my
> understanding of the english language.
>
> > and is yet to be discovered by lifestyle
> > publications like the Wine Spectator
>
> Let's hope they never do! But the time when Montepulciano was a well kept
> secret is over - it's getting overrun by tourists theese days.
>
> > Look for Avignonesi,
> And if You get the chance: taste their Vino Nobile - and hear the angels
> sing.
>
> You forgot Poliziano - imo the best of the big producers.
> Also Del Cerro is worth mentioning (also for their great Montefalco
estate,
> Colpetrone, but that's another story).
>
> > Dei &
> > Gracciano.
>
> Only midrange imo.
>
> regards
> Jan
>
> --
> A few photos can be found on http://jan.boegh.net/foto.htm
>

stick with d'Yquem--the vin santo is out standing but Pertimali's is
better........
"Chris Sprague" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Der Pizzameister wrote:
> > Jan Boegh wrote:
> >
> > > Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg skrev i
> >
> > >> Look for Avignonesi,
> >
> > > And if You get the chance: taste their Vino Nobile - and hear the
angels
> > > sing.
> >
> > May be you meant their "Vin Santo", did you?
>
> I can actually get 2 vintages of their Vin Santo locally - the 1989 and
> 1991, but at around $140 for a 375ml bottle! That's more than most
> vintages of Yquem!
>
> Can anybody here comment about whether or not they're "worth it"? I
> usually splurge right around this time of the year, when my bonus check
> arrives...
>
> - Chris
>

Mark Lipton wrote:
> J J Levin wrote:
>

>> I'd like to get some more information (and opinions) about Chianti.
>> Directions to good info links, and your opinions, would be welcome.
>
> OK, first of all, Chianti is a region in Italy, not a grape type.

Excellent remark. And, may I add, it is a very tiny subregion of
Tuscany: just the extension of three "comuni" (local councils): Gaiole,
Radda and Castellina (plus an ultra-tiny fraction of the Greve local
council: Panzano, basically).
Of course, attempts (even successful ones) to brand with the name
"chianti" wines originated well outside of the historical Chianti
district started very soon in history (at least as early as the
beginning of the 18th century: the 1716 date boasted by the Consorzio
Chianti Classico as the beginning of something, not surprisingly left
unspecified marks exactly the first of these successful attempts. If of
interest to anybody, plaese let me know and I can post details).
Then, in the Thirties of 20th century, an act of authority of the
Italian government of the time (PM was..uh..B. Mussolini) defined two
big production areas:
one for the plain "Chianti" (to be optionally specified by a "subzone",
i.e. a zone of Tuscany entirely different from the Chianti area)
scattered all around the hills of central Tuscany; another for the
"Chianti Classico" (supposedly linked to the original Chianti area, but
in fact more than twice as large as the real Chianti district, and
extended to at least part of 8 local communities, as opposed to the
original 3). Both of these "areas" were totally invented in 1932. You
can see what I am talking about, e.g. he
http://www.chianti-collifiorentini.it/territorio.html
Just for reference, the real Chianti region is more or less the
southmost half of the dark brown patch corresponding to the Chianti
Classico zone (needs to be trimmed a bit in the south as well).

So far, the "brand" Chianti (deriving its strength from the original
area's history and environment) has been used to sell wine (maybe even
better than the one coming from the original area, that is not my point)
coming from more or less the largest part of the hilly central part of
Tuscany, in some cases from areas which are distant from the original
Chianti area even five or six times the very extension of the area itself.
On the other hand, the opposite is now happening: the commercial
fortunes of the Chianti wine (of today's "Chianti") spawn a new concept
of "Chianti area", mostly coincident with today's production area, so
that people arriving in San Casciano Val di Pesa (at very convenient
reach from Florence, for instance) believe they are "in Chianti". After
all, why bother driving all the way to Radda or Castellina or Gaiole, up
and down those hellishly bendy and narrow roads? What could we ever find
"there" which is not "here" as well? Hope you can see my point.


> The
> most important (sometimes the only) grape of Chianti is Sangiovese.
> There are other regions in Tuscany that make wine from Sangiovese, but
> Chianti is the best known and can produce some of the finest wines.


It must be added that Sangiovese is a very polimorphic class of grapes,
even by limiting ourselves to the "sangiovese piccolo" sub-variety,
different from the Brunello di Montalcino one which is best thought of
as another variety altogether.

> Within the Chianti region, there are eight (I think) subzones, of which
> the most famous is the Chianti Classico region in the center.

See above. If you see the real Chianti "region" spot in the framework of
the "Chianti" wine producing area, you may start wondering what the word
Chianti has to do with all that..;-)

> However,
> good wines are made in other regions such as Chianti Colli Senesi. The
> most basic wines are just labeled "Chianti." Also, wines from Chianti
> that are aged for a minimum of 27 months in barrel before bottling are
> classed as "Riserva" and tend to be bigger, more powerful wines.


Sure. I am not saying anything about quality. I am just adding a few
remarks concerning the "truth" behind a name. If you consider that it is
not the absolute extent of an enlarged area that matters, but rather the
relative amount by which the original area has been enlarged, it is more
or less like branding as Champagne every French white wine produced
north of Dijone.

UC wrote:

> Chianti is both a region of Italy (in Toscana or Tuscany in English)
> and a wine. All Chianti must contain a certain percentage of Sangiovese
> grapes. Wine made from grapes within the delimited Chianti region are
> labelled merely "Chianti". Similar wines are produced in Toscana from
> the same grape varieties, but not of the same mix or quality, may be
> called "Sangiovese di Toscana" or some such name.


May I respectfully disagree. It is not from within the "delimited
Chianti region" that wines merely labelled Chianti come. They come from
within the delimited production area established by the law (pretty
tautologic, is it not?), which is related to Chianti more or less as the
whole of Italy may be related to Tuscany. Would you ever say that L.A.
is in the Napa region ?

> Chianti comprises several sub-zones, of which the most important are
> Chianti Classico and Chianti Rufina. I prefer Rufina to Classico wines.

Fine. That translates into saying that you prefer Rufina to Chianti.
Btw, Rufina guys are so convinced their wine is better than "Classico"
wine, why on earth don't they drop that "Chianti" word, then?