"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...

pearl wrote:
> > It's not a matter of belief. It is a scientifically-validated therapy.
>
> It is a scientifically WORTHLESS bit of quackery.
> There is ZERO scientific validation for foot massage,
> aka "reflexology". It's bullshit.

Reflexology treatment relieves symptoms of multiple sclerosis:
a randomised controlled study

http://prdupl02.ynet.co.il/ForumFiles/7123402.pdf

"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message k.net...

pearl wrote:

> >>>http://www.reflexology-research.com/abstracts.htm
> >>
> >>There are no legitimate clinical studies
> >
> >
> > All of the abstracts on that page are
>
> Bullshit. They are *not* from any legitimate clinical
> studies.

'Forsch Komplementarmed. 1999 Jun;6(3):129-34.
[Changes of renal blood flow during organ-associated foot reflexology
measured by color Doppler sonography]
[Article in German]
Sudmeier I, Bodner G, Egger I, Mur E, Ulmer H, Herold M.
Universitatsklinik fur Innere Medizin, Innsbruck, Austria.

Using colour Doppler sonography blood flow changes of the right kidney
during foot reflexology were determined in a placebo-controlled, double-blind,
randomised study. 32 healthy young adults (17 women, 15 men) were
randomly assigned to the verum or placebo group. The verum group received
foot reflexology at zones corresponding to the right kidney, the placebo group
was treated on other foot zones. Before, during and after foot reflexology the
blood flow of three vessels of the right kidney was measured using colour
Doppler sonography. Systolic peak velocity and end diastolic peak velocity
were measured in cm/s, and the resistive index, a parameter of the vascular
resistance, was calculated. The resistive index in the verum group showed a
highly significant decrease (p </= 0.001) during and an increase (p = 0.001)
after foot reflexology. There was no difference between men and women and
no difference between smokers and non-smokers. Verum and placebo group
significantly differed concerning alterations of the resistive index both between
the measuring points before versus during foot reflexology (p = 0.002) and
those during versus after foot reflexology (p = 0.031). The significant decrease
of the resistive index during foot reflexology in the verum group indicates a
decrease of flow resistance in renal vessels and an increase of renal blood flow.
These findings support the hypothesis that organ-associated foot reflexology
is effective in changing renal blood flow during therapy.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

'Vol. 6, No. 3, 1999
Free Abstract Article (PDF 134 KB)

Original Article · Originalarbeit
Änderung der Nierendurchblutung durch organassoziierte
Reflexzonentherapie am Fuss gemessen mit farbkodierter Doppler-Sonographie
I. Sudmeiera, G. Bodnerb, I. Eggerc, E. Mura, H. Ulmerd, M. Herolda

aUniversitätsklinik für Innere Medizin,
bUniversitätsklinik für Radiodiagnostik,
cUniversitätsklinik für Neurologie
dInstitut für Biostatistik und Dokumentation, Innsbruck, Austria

Address of Corresponding Author
Forschende Komplementärmedizin 1999;6:129-134 (DOI: 10.1159/000021238)

http://content.karger.com/produktedb...&file=fkm06129

"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...

pearl wrote:

> >>>http://www.reflexology-research.com/abstracts.htm
> >>
> >>There are no legitimate clinical studies
> >
> >
> > All of the abstracts on that page are
>
> Bullshit. They're bullshit. NO legitimate clinical
> studies have been done that show any verifiable
> therapeutic result from foot massage.

Obstetrics & Gynecology 1993;82:906-911
© 1993 by The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
Randomized controlled study of premenstrual symptoms treated with
ear, hand, and foot reflexology
T Oleson and W Flocco

OBJECTIVE: To determine whether reflexology therapy--the application
of manual pressure to reflex points on the ears, hands, and feet that
somatotopically correspond to specific areas of the body--can significantly
reduce premenstrual symptoms compared to placebo treatment.
METHODS: Thirty-five women who complained of previous distress with
premenstrual syndrome (PMS) were randomly assigned to be treated by ear,
hand, and foot reflexology or to receive placebo reflexology. All subjects
completed a daily diary, which monitored 38 premenstrual symptoms on
a four-point scale. Somatic and psychological indicators of premenstrual
distress were recorded each day for 2 months before treatment, for 2 months
during reflexology, and for 2 months afterward. The reflexology sessions for
both groups were provided by a trained reflexology therapist once a week
for 8 weeks, and lasted 30 minutes each. RESULTS: Analysis of variance
for repeated measures demonstrated a significantly greater decrease in
premenstrual symptoms for the women given true reflexology treatment
than for the women in the placebo group. CONCLUSION: These clinical
findings support the use of ear, hand, and foot reflexology for the treatment
of PMS.

http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/cont...tract/82/6/906

>"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...

>>Misterina wrote:

> >>"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...
> >>>
> >>>

> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>>Not as authorities, per se, but their show BULLSHIT exposes frauds and
> >>>>>>pseudoscience and other irrational nonsense. "Alternative medicine" is
> >>>>>>bullshit.

Prof Nurse. 1993 Aug;8(11):722-5.
Reflexology--its place in modern healthcare.
Sahai IC.

1. Reflexology is a safe treatment promoting homeostasis.
2. It is an ancient method of healing which is regaining
popularity. 3. Reflexology has no side-effects, only so-called
healing crises--stepping stones to better health. 4. Reflexology
is now an established branch of paramedical medicine, and
should be available to NHS patients.

PMID: 8346270 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

> >>>>>What happens if and when it works?
> >>>>
> >>>>It doesn't.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>It most certainly does.
> >>
> >>It most certainly does *NOT*.
> >
> >
> > Liar.
>
> No, it just doesn't work.

1: Pflege. 1998 Aug;11(4):213-8.
[Foot reflexology: an intervention study]
[Article in German]
Kesselring A, Spichiger E, Muller M.
Institut fur Pflegeforschung des Schweizer Berufsverbandes
der Krankenschwestern und Krankenpfleger.

The study's goal was to test if foot reflexology (FR) affects
well-being, voiding, bowel movements, pain and/or sleep in
women who underwent an abdominal operation. 130 subjects
were randomized into three groups. For five days they were
exposed to 15 minutes of FR, foot/leg massage (FM) or
talking respectively. Results show that women in the FR group
were more able to void without problems, after the indwelling
catheter had been removed, than did women in the comparison
groups. There was also a tendency in the FR-group for the
indwelling catheter to be removed earlier than in the other groups.
In comparison, the FR-subjects slept worse than the others.
FM showed significant results in subjective measurements of
well-being, pain and sleep.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation


> >>>http://www.reflexology-research.com/abstracts.htm

"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> wrote:

> > Those last two sentences are contradictory.
>
> No, shev, they aren't. Palliative benefits from touch therapies like
> massage (back, feet, whatever) may make it easier to live with
> migraines, but they don't cure migraines.

Altern Ther Health Med. 1999 May;5(3):57-65.
Comment in: Altern Ther Health Med. 1999 May;5(3):39-40.
An exploratory study of reflexological treatment for headache.
Launso L, Brendstrup E, Arnberg S.
Department of Social Pharmacy, Royal Danish School of Pharmacy,
Copenhagen, Denmark.

CONTEXT: Headache is the most frequently reported symptom among
Danish adults, and studies in various European countries indicate migraine
headache prevalence rates similar to those in Denmark. OBJECTIVE: An
exploratory study of reflexological treatment for headache was conducted
from 1993 to 1994 to examine which patients with headache underwent a
course of reflexological treatment, why patients sought reflexological
treatment, what previous experience patients had with medication for
headache, and what outcomes patients experienced from reflexological
treatment. DESIGN: Prospective and exploratory study using random
sampling and the following data collection methods: headache diaries,
registration schemes for practitioners, questionnaires, and qualitative
interviews. SETTING: Denmark. PATIENTS: 220 patients with migraine
and/or tension headache. INTERVENTION: Patients were treated for a
maximum of 6 months by 78 reflexologists systematically drawn from
the membership lists of 5 alternative therapist associations. MAIN
OUTCOME MEASURES: A diagnosis of each patient's type of headache
at the outset of treatment was made by a consulting physician according
to the International Headache Society Classification (1988). RESULTS:
At 3-month follow-up, 81% of patients reported that they were helped by
the treatments or were cured of their headache problems. Nineteen percent
of those who had formerly taken drugs to control their headaches were
able to stop medication support following participation in the study.
CONCLUSIONS: Reflexological treatment seems to improve patients'
general well-being, energy level, ability to interpret their own body signals,
and ability to understand the reasons for headache. However, these
relationships may be due to other factors in the treatment environment.
Additional studies are necessary to determine the proximate cause of
reflexology's therapeutic benefits.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Controlled Clinical Trial

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...

> > It *doesn't* "work" as its scammers suggest. Reflexology's benefits don't
> > extend beyond palliative results,

Paediatr Nurs. 2003 Apr;15(3):20-1.
Reflexology in the management of encopresis and chronic constipation.
Bishop E, McKinnon E, Weir E, Brown DW.

Encopresis or faecal incontinence in children is an extremely distressing
condition that is usually secondary to chronic constipation/stool withholding.
Traditional management with enemas may add to the child's distress. This
study investigated the efficacy of treating patients with encopresis and
chronic constipation with reflexology. An observational study was carried
out of 50 children between three and 14 years of age who had a diagnosis
of encopresis/chronic constipation. The children received six sessions of
30-minutes of reflexology to their feet. With the help of their parents they
completed questionnaires on bowel motions and soiling patterns before,
during and after the treatment. A further questionnaire was completed by
parents pre and post treatment on their attitude towards reflexology.
Forty-eight of the children completed the sessions. The number of bowel
motions increased and the incidence of soiling decreased. Parents were
keen to try the reflexology and were satisfied with the effect of reflexology
on their child's condition. It appears that reflexology has been an effective
method of treating encopresis and constipation over a six-week period in
this cohort of patients.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Controlled Clinical Trial

PMID: 12715585 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract

1: Forsch Komplementarmed Klass Naturheilkd. 2001 Apr;8(2):86-9.
[Influence of reflex zone therapy of the feet on intestinal blood flow
measured by color Doppler sonography]
[Article in German]
Mur E, Schmidseder J, Egger I, Bodner G, Eibl G, Hartig F, Pfeiffer KP,
Herold M. Universitatsklinik fur Innere Medizin, Innsbruck, Osterreich.

OBJECTIVE: An influence on organ-associated blood flow is considered
as a possible mechanism of action of reflex zone massage of the feet
(FRZM) therapy. In the present study we investigated whether changes in
intestinal blood flow can be achieved by FRZM. Material and Methods:
32 healthy adults (19 women and 13 men) were randomly assigned to the
treatment or the placebo group. Subjects of the treatment group received
foot massage on the zones assigned to the intestines and those of the
placebo group received massage on zones unrelated to the intestines.
Before, during and after FRZM, the blood flow velocity, the peak systolic
and the end diastolic velocities in the superior mesenteric artery as well as
the resistive index as a parameter of vascular resistance were calculated.
Results: During FRZM, in the subjects of the treatment group there was a
significant reduction in the resistive index (p = 0.021), suggesting an
increase in the blood flow in the superior mesenteric artery and the
subordinate vascular system. In contrast, there were no significant changes
in the resistive index in the subjects of the placebo group. Conclusion: The
reduction in the resistive index observed in the treatment group supports
the assumption that FRZM improves blood flow in the organs considered
to be associated with the specific foot zones, at least during the therapy
process. Copyright 2001 S. Karger GmbH, Freiburg

PMID: 11340315 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ool=pubmed_doc
sum

"Glorfindel" > wrote in message ...
> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> >> So the state of Texas condones bestiality as there's no law against it?
>
> > No, but apparently a majority of the US Supreme Court does.
>
> <snip>
>
> This kind of comment shows how completely you misunderstand
> responsible freedom. You once claimed to be a Libertarian.
> Obviously, you are not one now, nor are you a supporter of
> the kind of freedom the United States is based upon: that
> individuals have a right to decide for themselves what they
> consider appropriate, as long as their actions do not harm
> or distress others. Your mentality is the same as that of
> those who would impose religious law on a whole population,
> and enforce it with State power.
>
> Part of the problem with harm to animals is that the legal
> system -- and you -- allow any harm, no matter how serious
> or distressing to the animal, as long as it is generally
> considered to benefit humans. Rape of a sheep cannot possibly
> be considered more painful or harmful to the sheep than being
> hoisted upside down by one leg, having one's throat cut while
> still conscious, and bleeding to death slowly in great pain while
> being flayed alive, is harmful to a cow, or having one's beak burned
> off by a hot knife and being scalded to death in boiling water
> is harmful to a chicken. Yet these cruel practices are accepted
> *by you* and the legal system because lots of people want to
> eat beef or chicken, while only a tiny number of people want
> to rape sheep. This is hypocrisy of the worst type.
>
> AR supporters have a consistent moral position: these cruel
> practices toward "food" animals *AND* the rape of unwilling
> animals are *BOTH* condemned, for the same reason. Any
> action which causes harm or distress to a companion animal is
> also covered in most civilized areas ( which probably excludes
> Texas ) by anti-cruelty laws. However, the Supreme Court has
> very properly concluded in the Lawrence case that an activity
> between consenting adults in the privacy of their own home --
> and action which cannot be shown to be imposed without consent,
> or to cause any harm -- should not be prohibited by law.
>
> Anyone who believes, for religious or ethical reasons, that
> bestiality is immoral ( as Pearl does ) has a right to say
> so, to avoid the activity, and to try to *persuade* others
> not to engage in the activity. But unless someone can
> present genuine evidence that the action is *harmful* mentally
> or physically, it is wrong to forbid the action under law
> in a free society. There are people who believe it is immoral
> to allow young girls to escape genital mutilation, or to allow
> women to go outside without wearing a veil. Some of them would
> impose this belief on women without consent, by force, and
> even kill women who resist. But this is not the kind of
> behavior which can be accepted in a free society.
>
> <snip>

Very well said, and thank you.

"Rupert" > wrote in message oups.com...

> I think objecting to sex with animals when it causes no harm or
> distress, and involves no coercion, but endorsing modern farming
> practices, is utterly bizarre. I think all the fuss you people make
> about bestiality is ridiculous.

witch-hunt also witch hunt (wich'hunt')
n.

chico chupacabra wrote:

> It's classified in DSM-IV as a paraphilia.

"There is presently considerable debate in psychology over whether
certain aspects of zoophilia are better understood as an aberration or
as an orientation. The activity or desire itself is no longer
classified as a pathology under DSM-IV (TR) (the Diagnostic and
Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association) unless
accompanied by distress or interference with normal functioning on the
part of the person, and research has broadly been supportive of at
least some of zoophiles' central claims. Critics point out that that
DSM-IV says nothing about acceptability or the well-being of the
animal, and many critics outside the field express views that sexual
acts with animals are always either abusive or unethical. Defenders of
zoosexuality argue that a human/animal relationship can go far beyond
sexuality, and that animals are capable of forming a genuinely loving
relationship that can last for years and which is not functionally
different from any other love/sex relationship." (Wikipedia,
"Zoophilia")

chico chupacabra wrote:
> wrote:

<snip>

>>> No, shev, they aren't. Palliative benefits from touch therapies like
>>> massage (back, feet, whatever) may make it easier to live with
>>> migraines, but they don't cure migraines.

>> You're saying a palliative benefit is not a direct therapeutic effect?

> No, because the underlying cause/issue remains.

<snip>

Well, that depends on what the underlying issue is.

I do know massage therapy helped a companion dog of mine who had
problems with atrophied muscles and loose knee muscles in the
rear legs and knees. Stretching exercises and massage, combined
with exercise, tightened the muscles and avoided the need for
surgery on the knees.

Some modern vets combine conventional and alternative treatments
also.

Karen Winger, pro-pedophilia ex cat shampooer, wrote:

> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>>> No, shev, they aren't. Palliative benefits from touch therapies like
>>>> massage (back, feet, whatever) may make it easier to live with
>>>> migraines, but they don't cure migraines.
>
>
>>> You're saying a palliative benefit is not a direct therapeutic effect?
>
>
>> No, because the underlying cause/issue remains.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Well, that depends on what the underlying issue is.

You stupid ****, Karen.

If the underlying issue is cancer of the spine, and a
nice foot rub makes you feel a bit better for a few
minutes, the underlying cause of "stress" - your
impending death from terminal cancer - remains.

You are such a simple, loopy ****.

Okay, bear with me, I have not been here for long, but who is Goo again? I
kind of lost track in between all the bickering.


<dh@.> wrote in message ...

> Goo's dishonesty, stupidity, ignorance, rudeness, inconsideration
> and mental illness all mix together in a way that even Goo probably
> remains in a constant state of confusion as to who all he thinks he
> is, and what he thinks he believes, etc. For example: Something that
> the Goober insisted is one of "the real complaints of "vegans" regarding
> human use of animals", is his insistence that: "no matter how "decent"
> the conditions are, the deliberate killing of the animals erases all of
it."
> Later, Goo claimed to think he disagreed with himself about it though
> amusingly he could never explain how he thought he did. More recently,
> Goo has reverted back to agreeing with himself about it again. This poor
> Goober is so bewildered and disturbed that he doesn't know what he
> thinks he thinks, much less does he have a clue how to back it up or
> even try to.

> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
> wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
> buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
> What they try to avoid are products which provide life
> (and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
> to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
> in order to be successful:


Okay um. Can someone please tell me WHY is it that people assume I am vegan?

"> I do know massage therapy helped a companion dog of mine who had
> problems with atrophied muscles and loose knee muscles in the
> rear legs and knees. Stretching exercises and massage, combined
> with exercise, tightened the muscles and avoided the need for
> surgery on the knees.
>
> Some modern vets combine conventional and alternative treatments
> also.
>

Glorfindel! Duck!!! Chico is going to fling his sh*t again!

Rupert wrote:

> What's wrong with sex with animals

Plenty. Can animals give consent to sex?

> I think objecting to sex with animals... is utterly bizarre.

I think people who **** animals are even more bizarre. I'm not terribly
surprised you give your demented approval of it, though.

> I think all the fuss you people make about bestiality is ridiculous.

Why do you not object to it? I bet you're a baa-aaa-aad man.

LesLIE continued dishing out her bullshit:

>>>It *doesn't* "work" as its scammers suggest. Reflexology's benefits don't
>>>extend beyond palliative results,
>
>
> Paediatr Nurs. 2003 Apr;15(3):20-1.
> Reflexology in the management of encopresis and chronic constipation.
> Bishop E, McKinnon E, Weir E, Brown DW.
>
> Encopresis or faecal incontinence in children is an extremely distressing
> condition that is usually secondary to chronic constipation/stool withholding.
> Traditional management with enemas may add to the child's distress. This
> study investigated the efficacy of treating patients with encopresis and
> chronic constipation with reflexology. An observational study was carried
> out of 50 children

Small sample size.

> between three and 14 years of age who had a diagnosis
> of encopresis/chronic constipation. The children received six sessions of
> 30-minutes of reflexology to their feet. With the help of their parents they
> completed questionnaires on bowel motions and soiling patterns before,
> during and after the treatment.

Self-reporting is NOT double blind, douchebag.

> A further questionnaire was completed by
> parents pre and post treatment on their attitude towards reflexology.

Attitudes are subjective, NOT objective. This was a survey, not a study.

> Forty-eight of the children completed the sessions. The number of bowel
> motions increased and the incidence of soiling decreased.

Per self-reporting, not from actual observation and comparison against a
control group.

> Parents were
> keen to try the reflexology and were satisfied with the effect of reflexology
> on their child's condition. It appears that reflexology has been an effective
> method of treating encopresis and constipation over a six-week period in
> this cohort of patients.

Perceived palliative benefit, not measured to be systemic benefit.

pearl wrote:
> "Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...
>
> pearl wrote:
>
>>>It's not a matter of belief. It is a scientifically-validated therapy.
>>
>>It is a scientifically WORTHLESS bit of quackery.
>>There is ZERO scientific validation for foot massage,
>>aka "reflexology". It's bullshit.
>
>
> Reflexology treatment relieves symptoms of multiple sclerosis:

Palliative, not systemic.

chico chupacabra wrote:
> Rupert wrote:
>
> > What's wrong with sex with animals
>
> Plenty. Can animals give consent to sex?
>

They can't give verbal consent. It can be the case that the animal is
willing and that it can be reasonably presumed that the animal is
willing.

> > I think objecting to sex with animals... is utterly bizarre.
>
> I think people who **** animals are even more bizarre. I'm not terribly
> surprised you give your demented approval of it, though.
>
> > I think all the fuss you people make about bestiality is ridiculous.
>
> Why do you not object to it? I bet you're a baa-aaa-aad man.

pearl wrote:
> "Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...
>
> pearl wrote:
>
>
>>>>>http://www.reflexology-research.com/abstracts.htm
>>>>
>>>>There are no legitimate clinical studies
>>>
>>>
>>>All of the abstracts on that page are
>>
>>Bullshit. They're bullshit. NO legitimate clinical
>>studies have been done that show any verifiable
>>therapeutic result from foot massage.
>
>
> Obstetrics & Gynecology 1993;82:906-911
> © 1993 by The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists
> Randomized controlled study of premenstrual symptoms treated with
> ear, hand, and foot reflexology
> T Oleson and W Flocco
>
> OBJECTIVE: To determine whether reflexology therapy--the application
> of manual pressure to reflex points on the ears, hands, and feet that
> somatotopically correspond to specific areas of the body--can significantly
> reduce premenstrual symptoms compared to placebo treatment.
> METHODS: Thirty-five women

Small sample.

> who complained of previous distress with
> premenstrual syndrome (PMS) were randomly assigned to be treated by ear,
> hand, and foot reflexology or to receive placebo reflexology. All subjects
> completed a daily diary,

Self-reporting.

> which monitored 38 premenstrual symptoms on
> a four-point scale. Somatic and psychological indicators

What the **** did I say when "Misterina" ****wittedly jumped into the
discussion: "It's benefits are palliative and tend to 'work' for people
with psychosomatic complaints." It doesn't cure ****ing PMS.

> of premenstrual
> distress were recorded each day for 2 months before treatment, for 2 months
> during reflexology, and for 2 months afterward. The reflexology sessions for
> both groups were provided by a trained reflexology therapist

Not a double blind study.

> once a week
> for 8 weeks, and lasted 30 minutes each. RESULTS: Analysis of variance
> for repeated measures demonstrated a significantly greater decrease in
> premenstrual symptoms for the women given true reflexology treatment
> than for the women in the placebo group. CONCLUSION: These clinical
> findings support the use of ear, hand, and foot reflexology for the treatment
> of PMS.
>
> http://www.greenjournal.org/cgi/cont...tract/82/6/906

Green Journal... well that would certainly trump The Lancet and JAMA.
/sarcasm

wrote:

> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
>>Rupert wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What's wrong with sex with animals
>>
>>Plenty. Can animals give consent to sex?
>
> They can't give verbal consent.

Precisely. Neither can children or others incompetent to make decisions
for themselves, and our culture affords them protections under the law.

> It can be the case that the animal is
> willing and that it can be reasonably presumed that the animal is
> willing.

I'll just have to take your word for it, you sick pervert.

>>>I think objecting to sex with animals... is utterly bizarre.
>>
>>I think people who **** animals are even more bizarre. I'm not terribly
>>surprised you give your demented approval of it, though.
>>
>>
>>>I think all the fuss you people make about bestiality is ridiculous.
>>
>>Why do you not object to it? I bet you're a baa-aaa-aad man.

pearl wrote:

>>"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...
>
>
>>>Misterina wrote:
>
>
>>>>"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...
>>>>
>>>>>
>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Not as authorities, per se, but their show BULLSHIT exposes frauds and
>>>>>>>>pseudoscience and other irrational nonsense. "Alternative medicine" is
>>>>>>>>bullshit.
>
>
> Prof Nurse. 1993 Aug;8(11):722-5.
> Reflexology--its place in modern healthcare.
> Sahai IC.
>
> 1. Reflexology is a safe treatment promoting homeostasis.

What the hell could be dangerous about a foot rub, unless the patient
has an injury or gout?

> 2. It is an ancient method

Ancient my ass. It's nineteenth-century snakeoil.

> of healing which is regaining
> popularity. 3. Reflexology has no side-effects, only so-called
> healing crises--stepping stones to better health. 4. Reflexology
> is now an established branch of paramedical medicine,

Paramedical medicine is oxymoronic.

> and should be available to NHS patients.
>
> PMID: 8346270 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Citation

That's not a study, you charlatan.

Misterina wrote:

>> · Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
>>wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
>>buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
>>What they try to avoid are products which provide life
>>(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
>>to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
>>in order to be successful:
>
>
>
> Okay um. Can someone please tell me WHY is it that people assume I am vegan?

You wrote:

I just categorically don't eat anything that had a
mother.
Or eyes. Or brains. Like EUGH!! So here we go, how
about this:

Hi. My name is Misterina. I *categorically* condemn
meat *eating*.

If not "vegan", you are at least a loopy so-called "ethical
vegetarian".

That is, you're a crackpot.

pearl wrote:
> "chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
>
wrote:
>
>
>>>Those last two sentences are contradictory.
>>
>>No, shev, they aren't. Palliative benefits from touch therapies like
>>massage (back, feet, whatever) may make it easier to live with
>>migraines, but they don't cure migraines.
>
>
> Altern Ther Health Med. 1999 May;5(3):57-65.

That's hardly The Lancet or JAMA.

> Comment in: Altern Ther Health Med. 1999 May;5(3):39-40.
> An exploratory study of reflexological treatment for headache.
> Launso L, Brendstrup E, Arnberg S.
> Department of Social Pharmacy, Royal Danish School of Pharmacy,
> Copenhagen, Denmark.
>
> CONTEXT: Headache is the most frequently reported symptom among
> Danish adults, and studies in various European countries indicate migraine
> headache prevalence rates similar to those in Denmark. OBJECTIVE: An
> exploratory study of reflexological treatment for headache was conducted
> from 1993 to 1994 to examine which patients with headache underwent a
> course of reflexological treatment, why patients sought reflexological
> treatment, what previous experience patients had with medication for
> headache, and what outcomes patients experienced from reflexological
> treatment. DESIGN: Prospective and exploratory study using random
> sampling and the following data collection methods: headache diaries,
> registration schemes for practitioners, questionnaires, and qualitative
> interviews.

Self-reporting and paper-pushing. This, like the others you've pasted
in, is not a double blind study. Here are some abstracts of double blind
studies about reflexology and its ******* cousin acupressu

Many asthma patients seek alternative or adjunctive therapies. One such
modality is reflexology, whereby finger pressure is applied to certain
parts of the body. The aim of the study was to examine the popular claim
that reflexology treatment benefits bronchial asthma. Ten weeks of
active or simulated (placebo) reflexology given by an experienced
reflexologist, were compared in an otherwise blind, controlled trial of
20+20 outpatients with asthma. Objective lung function tests (peak flow
morning and evening, and weekly spirometry at the clinic) did not
change. Subjective scores (describing symptoms, beta2-inhalations and
quality of life) and also bronchial sensitivity to histamine improved on
both regimens, but no differences were found between groups receiving
active or placebo reflexology. However, a trend in favour of reflexology
became significant when a supplementary analysis of symptom diaries was
carried out. It was accompanied by a significant pattern compatible with
subconscious unblinding, in that patients tended to guess which
treatment they had been receiving. No evidence was found that
reflexology has a specific effect on asthma beyond placebo influence.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...&dopt=Abstract


Nausea and vomiting are major adverse effects during spinal anesthesia
for cesarean delivery. Stimulation of the P6 (Neiguan) acupoint is a
traditional Chinese acupuncture technique used for effective antiemetic
purposes. In this study, we evaluated the antiemetic effect of P6
acupressure in parturients during spinal anesthesia for cesarean
delivery. In a randomized, double-blind, controlled trial, 110
parturients scheduled for elective cesarean delivery were enrolled in
the study. Thirty minutes before initiation of spinal anesthesia,
parturients were randomized to acupressure bands or placebo bands
bilaterally on the P6 acupoint and nausea and vomiting were observed
over the study period. There were no statistically significant
differences in maternal characteristics. Incidence rates for
intraoperative nausea were 64% (acupressure group) and 71% (control
group) (P = 0.416), with an incidence of intraoperative vomiting of 22%
(acupressure group) and 27% (control group) (P = 0.506). The results
suggest that prophylactic use of acupressure bands bilaterally on the P6
acupoint failed to prevent nausea and vomiting during spinal anesthesia
for cesarean delivery.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...ubmed_docsu m

<...>
> CONCLUSIONS: Reflexological treatment seems to improve patients'
> general well-being,

Neither a quantitative measure nor assessment.

> energy level,

Not quantitated.

> ability to interpret their own body signals,

This is not therapeutic.

> and ability to understand the reasons for headache.

This is not therapeutic. NOW PAY ATTENTION TO THE NEXT PART, YOU ****ING
IDIOT:

> However, these
> relationships may be due to other factors in the treatment environment.

That's what a double blind study can help weed out: see the two such
abstracts I cited above.

> Additional studies are necessary to determine the proximate cause of
> reflexology's therapeutic benefits.

Additional study would show that reflexology is a sham.

> That is, you're a crackpot.

And you're an ass. At least crackpots have SOME form of entertainment.

wrote:
> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
>
>>It's classified in DSM-IV as a paraphilia.
>
>
> "There is presently considerable debate in psychology over whether
> certain aspects of zoophilia are better understood as an aberration or
> as an orientation.

It's not very considerable. As it was with declassification of
homosexuality, which was listed in prior DSMs as a paraphilic disorder,
there is a very small group of activists bent on re- or declassifying
paraphilias in toto. This activism is based on politics, not on science.

> The activity or desire itself is no longer
> classified as a pathology under DSM-IV (TR) (the Diagnostic and
> Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association) unless
> accompanied by distress or interference with normal functioning on the
> part of the person,

Meanwhile, other disorders like psychopathy and sociopathy are diagnosed
per axes rather than how the patient feels about himself and how he's
functioning.

> and research has broadly been supportive of at
> least some of zoophiles' central claims. Critics point out that that
> DSM-IV says nothing about acceptability or the well-being of the
> animal,

Which is irrelevant. The sexually-depraved patient doesn't get brownie
points for feeding the dog he just raped -- and, absent the dog's
consent, that's exactly what it is: rape.

> and many critics outside the field express views that sexual
> acts with animals are always either abusive or unethical. Defenders of
> zoosexuality argue that a human/animal relationship can go far beyond
> sexuality, and that animals are capable of forming a genuinely loving
> relationship that can last for years and which is not functionally
> different from any other love/sex relationship."

You mean aside from the fact that your sheep can't drive to the store
for aspirin after you've abused it the way a real girlfriend, from your
own species, would.

> (Wikipedia, "Zoophilia")

I wish Wikipedia would list authors/contributors so we'd know exactly
who wrote that.

Karen Winter, abandoner of good child and adopter of queer strays, wrote:

> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>>> No, shev, they aren't. Palliative benefits from touch therapies like
>>>> massage (back, feet, whatever) may make it easier to live with
>>>> migraines, but they don't cure migraines.
>
>
>>> You're saying a palliative benefit is not a direct therapeutic effect?
>
>
>> No, because the underlying cause/issue remains.
>
>
> <snip>
>
> Well, that depends on what the underlying issue is.

Alzheimer's. Parkinson's. How about cancer. Rubbing someone's feet may
make him or her feel better, but it won't rid the brain of amyloid
plaque, or reduce or cure malignancies. Beyond psychosomatic complaints,
which are psychological issues and not medical problems, the underlying
issues will remain after a ****ing foot rub.

> I do know massage therapy helped a companion dog

Pet dog. They're pets, Karen.

> of mine

At least you admit possession of it.

> who had
> problems with atrophied muscles and loose knee muscles in the
> rear legs and knees.

Did you call it Sylvia?

chico chupacabra wrote:
> wrote:
> > chico chupacabra wrote:
> >
> >
> >>It's classified in DSM-IV as a paraphilia.
> >
> >
> > "There is presently considerable debate in psychology over whether
> > certain aspects of zoophilia are better understood as an aberration or
> > as an orientation.
>
> It's not very considerable.

What are your qualifications to speak about the matter? How much
psychological or psychiatric literature have you read?

> As it was with declassification of
> homosexuality, which was listed in prior DSMs as a paraphilic disorder,
> there is a very small group of activists bent on re- or declassifying
> paraphilias in toto. This activism is based on politics, not on science.
>

Whereas classifying paraphilias as mental disorders is based on
science, is it? These scientists have found some way to transcend the
cultural mores they live in and come up with some objective scientific
basis for saying homosexuality which causes clinically significant
distress is not a mental disorder, heterosexuality which causes
clinically distress is not a mental disorder, but sadomasochism which
causes clinically significant distress is. Well, it could be. Perhaps
you can tell us a bit about the scientific basis for it.

> > The activity or desire itself is no longer
> > classified as a pathology under DSM-IV (TR) (the Diagnostic and
> > Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association) unless
> > accompanied by distress or interference with normal functioning on the
> > part of the person,
>
> Meanwhile, other disorders like psychopathy and sociopathy are diagnosed
> per axes rather than how the patient feels about himself and how he's
> functioning.
>

Quite. Could it be you're suggesting that the psychiatric community
sometimes allows its scientific objectivity to be influenced by
socio-cultural factors? Why don't you tell us what the objective
scientific basis is for saying something is or is not a disorder. I'm
dying to know. Then maybe we'd know what the point was of your bringing
up DSM-IV in the first place, in response to a request for objective
evidence of harm.

> > and research has broadly been supportive of at
> > least some of zoophiles' central claims. Critics point out that that
> > DSM-IV says nothing about acceptability or the well-being of the
> > animal,
>
> Which is irrelevant. The sexually-depraved patient doesn't get brownie
> points for feeding the dog he just raped -- and, absent the dog's
> consent, that's exactly what it is: rape.
>

If the dog was willing, what's the problem?

> > and many critics outside the field express views that sexual
> > acts with animals are always either abusive or unethical. Defenders of
> > zoosexuality argue that a human/animal relationship can go far beyond
> > sexuality, and that animals are capable of forming a genuinely loving
> > relationship that can last for years and which is not functionally
> > different from any other love/sex relationship."
>
> You mean aside from the fact that your sheep can't drive to the store
> for aspirin after you've abused it the way a real girlfriend, from your
> own species, would.
>

The fact that sheep can't drive is certainly one difference between
sheep and humans. I don't think defenders of zoosexuality would feel
this significantly bears on their thesis. I make no comment about the
thesis itself, I don't claim any great insight into zoosexual
relationships.

> > (Wikipedia, "Zoophilia")
>
> I wish Wikipedia would list authors/contributors so we'd know exactly
> who wrote that.

chico chupacabra wrote:
> wrote:
>
> >>>>This is the site of a lobbying organization for foot
> >>>>massagers. They have no credibility.
> >>>>
> >>>>There are no legitimate clinical studies that show
> >>>>*any* directly therapeutic effect of foot rubbing for
> >>>>any medical ailment. At best, foot massage has a
> >>>>palliative effect on the fraud victim's mental state.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Those last two sentences are contradictory.
> >>
> >>No, shev, they aren't. Palliative benefits from touch therapies like
> >>massage (back, feet, whatever) may make it easier to live with
> >>migraines, but they don't cure migraines.
> >
> > You're saying a palliative benefit is not a direct therapeutic effect?
>
> No, because the underlying cause/issue remains.
>
> >>>If a placebo can show direct therapeutic effect, and they often do, I'm
> >>>sure a foot massage would be that much better.
> >>
> >>No better than music, laughter, or pets:
> >>LAUGHTER
> >>http://tinyurl.com/e2mn
> >>http://tinyurl.com/e2mv
> >>
> >>MUSIC
> >>http://tinyurl.com/e2nb
> >>http://tinyurl.com/e2nf
> >>
> >>ANIMALS/PETS
> >>http://tinyurl.com/e2nn
> >>http://tinyurl.com/e2ns
> >
> > Good point.
>
> I try only to make that kind.
>
> > I imagine your original foot massage advocate would also
> > agree..
>
> She doesn't. She's a true-believer in reflexology.
>

Why would a true believer in reflexology deny that music, laughter, and
proximity to other animals could also have healthful effects?

> > we all have quite different nervous, endochrine, etc. systems
> > as well as comforts and whatever floats your boat as they say.
>
> But we don't allow people to make unfounded, untrue statements about
> medical procedures or potions. That's supposed to include flim-flam BS
> like "alternative medicine."
>

You don't allow people to make unfounded, untrue statements about
medical procedures? I can't think of any other field where such
statements are more rampant, and they have been for millenia. Good
luck with that. Don't forget to include flim-flam BS like allopathic
medicine, drug pushers ("legal"), and "traditional medicine".

> > Just remember that past results are no guarantee of future performance
> > etc.
>
> Read LesLIE's posts again and you'll see that she's a true-believer who
> claims it's a cure-all.
>

If she's a foot-fetishist I've got no problem with that. If she claims
it will work for everyone I do.

Cheers -

pearl wrote:
> "Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...
>
> > There are no legitimate clinical studies that show
> > *any* directly therapeutic effect of foot rubbing for
> > any medical ailment. At best, foot massage has a
> > palliative effect on the fraud victim's mental state.
>
> 'Paediatr Nurs. 2003 Apr;15(3):20-1.
> Reflexology in the management of encopresis and chronic constipation.
> Bishop E, McKinnon E, Weir E, Brown DW.
>
> Encopresis or faecal incontinence in children is an extremely distressing
> condition that is usually secondary to chronic constipation/stool withholding.
> Traditional management with enemas may add to the child's distress. This
> study investigated the efficacy of treating patients with encopresis and
> chronic constipation with reflexology. An observational study was carried
> out of 50 children between three and 14 years of age who had a diagnosis
> of encopresis/chronic constipation. The children received six sessions of
> 30-minutes of reflexology to their feet. With the help of their parents they
> completed questionnaires on bowel motions and soiling patterns before,
> during and after the treatment. A further questionnaire was completed by
> parents pre and post treatment on their attitude towards reflexology.
> Forty-eight of the children completed the sessions. The number of bowel
> motions increased and the incidence of soiling decreased. Parents were
> keen to try the reflexology and were satisfied with the effect of reflexology
> on their child's condition. It appears that reflexology has been an effective
> method of treating encopresis and constipation over a six-week period in
> this cohort of patients.
>

These kids are told to eat animals and are vitamin C deficient.
Reflexology or laxatives may help but don't address the problem. I
couldn't downloade the whole article.. did the authors make any mention
at all of diet?? We are talking about the digestive system after all.

> wrote in message ups.com...
>
> pearl wrote:

> > 'Paediatr Nurs. 2003 Apr;15(3):20-1.
> > Reflexology in the management of encopresis and chronic constipation.
> > Bishop E, McKinnon E, Weir E, Brown DW.
> >
> > Encopresis or faecal incontinence in children is an extremely distressing
> > condition that is usually secondary to chronic constipation/stool withholding.
> > Traditional management with enemas may add to the child's distress. This
> > study investigated the efficacy of treating patients with encopresis and
> > chronic constipation with reflexology. An observational study was carried
> > out of 50 children between three and 14 years of age who had a diagnosis
> > of encopresis/chronic constipation. The children received six sessions of
> > 30-minutes of reflexology to their feet. With the help of their parents they
> > completed questionnaires on bowel motions and soiling patterns before,
> > during and after the treatment. A further questionnaire was completed by
> > parents pre and post treatment on their attitude towards reflexology.
> > Forty-eight of the children completed the sessions. The number of bowel
> > motions increased and the incidence of soiling decreased. Parents were
> > keen to try the reflexology and were satisfied with the effect of reflexology
> > on their child's condition. It appears that reflexology has been an effective
> > method of treating encopresis and constipation over a six-week period in
> > this cohort of patients.
> >
>
> These kids are told to eat animals and are vitamin C deficient.
> Reflexology or laxatives may help but don't address the problem. I
> couldn't downloade the whole article.. did the authors make any mention
> at all of diet?? We are talking about the digestive system after all.

That is correct. Without identifying and removing the cause/s
of the disease, the effects of the treatment can be helpful, but
will not eliminate the problem. However reflexology is a branch
of holistic naturopathic medicine, and all aspects of the patient's
lifestyle should be considered. Diet is certainly very important.

Principles of Naturopathic Medicine;

DEFINITION OF NATUROPATHIC MEDICINE

Naturopathic medicine is a distinct system of primary health
care - an art, science, philosophy and practice of diagnosis,
treatment and prevention of illness. Naturopathic medicine is
distinguished by the principles which underlie and determine
its practice. These principles are based upon the objective
observation of the nature of health and disease, and are
continually reexamined in the light of scientific advances.
Methods used are consistent with these principles and are
chosen upon the basis of patient individuality. Naturopathic
physicians are primary health care practitioners, whose
diverse techniques include modern and traditional, scientific
and empirical methods. The following principles are the
foundation for the practice of naturopathic medicine:

PRINCIPLES

The Healing Power of Nature (Vis Medicatrix Naturae)
The healing power of nature is the inherent self-organizing
and healing process of living systems which establishes,
maintains and restores health. Naturopathic medicine
recognizes this healing process to be ordered and intelligent.
It is the naturopathic physician's role to support, facilitate
and augment this process by identifying and removing obstacles
to health and recovery, and by supporting the creation of a
healthy internal and external environment.

Identify and Treat the Causes (Tolle Causam)
Illness does not occur without cause. Causes may originate
in many areas. Underlying causes of illness and disease must
be identified and removed before complete recovery can
occur. Symptoms can be expressions of the body's attempt
to defend itself, to adapt and recover, to heal itself, or
may be results of the causes of disease. The naturopathic
physician seeks to treat the causes of disease, rather than
to merely eliminate or suppress symptoms.

First Do No Harm (Primum Non Nocere)
Naturopathic physicians follow three precepts to avoid
harming the patient:

+ Naturopathic physicians utilize methods and medicinal
substances which minimize the risk of harmful effects, and
apply the least possible force or intervention necessary to
diagnose illness and restore health.
+Whenever possible the suppression of symptoms is avoided
as suppression generally interferes with the healing process.
+Naturopathic physicians respect and work with the vis
medicatrix naturae in diagnosis, treatment and counseling,
for if this self-healing process is not respected the patient
may be harmed.

Doctor As Teacher (Docere)
The original meaning of the word "doctor" is teacher. A
principal objective of naturopathic medicine is to educate
the patient and emphasize self-responsibility for health.
Naturopathic physicians also recognize and employ the
therapeutic potential of the doctor-patient relationship.

Treat the Whole Person
Health and disease result from a complex of physical, mental,
emotional, genetic, environmental, social and other factors.
Since total health also includes spiritual health, naturopathic
physicians encourage individuals to pursue their personal
spiritual development. Naturopathic medicine recognizes the
harmonious functioning of all aspects of the individual as
being essential to health. The multifactorial nature of health
and disease requires a personalized and comprehensive
approach to diagnosis and treatment. Naturopathic physicians
treat the whole person taking all of these factors into
account.

Prevention
Naturopathic medical colleges emphasize the study of health
as well as disease. The prevention of disease and the
attainment of optimal health in patients are primary objectives
of naturopathic medicine. In practice, these objectives are
accomplished through education and the promotion of healthy
ways of living. Naturopathic physicians assess risk factors,
heredity and susceptibility to disease, and make appropriate
interventions in partnership with their patients to prevent illness.
Naturopathic medicine asserts that one cannot be healthy in
an unhealthy environment and is committed to the creation
of a world in which humanity may thrive.

http://web.archive.org/web/200108170...uro.philo.html

> wrote in message oups.com...
>
> pearl wrote:

> > 'Forsch Komplementarmed. 1999 Jun;6(3):129-34.
> > [Changes of renal blood flow during organ-associated foot reflexology
> > measured by color Doppler sonography]
> > [Article in German]
> > Sudmeier I, Bodner G, Egger I, Mur E, Ulmer H, Herold M.
> > Universitatsklinik fur Innere Medizin, Innsbruck, Austria.
> >
> > Using colour Doppler sonography blood flow changes of the right kidney
> > during foot reflexology were determined in a placebo-controlled, double-blind,
> > randomised study. 32 healthy young adults (17 women, 15 men) were
> > randomly assigned to the verum or placebo group. The verum group received
> > foot reflexology at zones corresponding to the right kidney, the placebo group
> > was treated on other foot zones. Before, during and after foot reflexology the
> > blood flow of three vessels of the right kidney was measured using colour
> > Doppler sonography. Systolic peak velocity and end diastolic peak velocity
> > were measured in cm/s, and the resistive index, a parameter of the vascular
> > resistance, was calculated. The resistive index in the verum group showed a
> > highly significant decrease (p </= 0.001) during and an increase (p = 0.001)
> > after foot reflexology. There was no difference between men and women and
> > no difference between smokers and non-smokers. Verum and placebo group
> > significantly differed concerning alterations of the resistive index both between
> > the measuring points before versus during foot reflexology (p = 0.002) and
> > those during versus after foot reflexology (p = 0.031). The significant decrease
> > of the resistive index during foot reflexology in the verum group indicates a
> > decrease of flow resistance in renal vessels and an increase of renal blood flow.
> > These findings support the hypothesis that organ-associated foot reflexology
> > is effective in changing renal blood flow during therapy.
> >
> > Publication Types:
> > Clinical Trial
> > Randomized Controlled Trial
> >
> >
>
> That's all well and good, but we still aren't going to see reflexology
> gold stamped by the medical beaurocracy any time soon. The usual
> reasons: too inexpensive, and not "patented". Show me the money.

Bingo!!

> On the bright side, you shouldn't really care. Your reflexologist is
> probably better at what he/she does now than if they had to deal with
> kickbacks, paperwork, drug pushers, etc. Aren't you glad you don't
> have to go to a hospital? If your insurance doesn't pay for it, that's
> your problem for buying the insurance.

I AM a reflexologist. Have been practicing for nearly twelve years.

> Anyway, such a change in blood flow could be entirely psychosomatic.

How might a lay mind differentiate related and non-related reflexes?

'The verum group received foot reflexology at zones corresponding to
the right kidney, the placebo group was treated on other foot zones. '

Reflexology hasn't been practiced - handed down for thousands of
years in different cultures for no (very) good reason, you know.

chico chupacabra wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

<snip>

>> I do know massage therapy helped a companion dog

<snip>

>> of mine

> At least you admit possession of it.

No, dear. If I refer to "my wife" or "my country" or
"my God" that does not mean those entities are my
possessions. The same is true of "my dog". It means
the dog who lives with me and with whom I have a
relationship of love and commitment. And no, before you
say it, it is *NOT* a sexual relationship.

But you knew all that.

<snip>

"Misterina" > wrote in message ...
>
> > That is, you're a crackpot.
>
> And you're an ass. At least crackpots have SOME form of entertainment.

As they say that laughter is good for us.. inna cruelish vein ..

.....

>> >MORRIS AND HIS WIFE ESTHER WENT TO

>> >

>> >THE STATE FAIR EVERY YEAR.

>> >

>> >EVERY YEAR, MORRIS WOULD SAY,

>> >

>> >"ESTHER, I 'D LIKE TO RIDE IN THAT

>> >

>> >HELICOPTER."

>> >

>> >ESTHER ALWAYS REPLIED,

>> >

>> >" I KNOW MORRIS, BUT THAT HELICOPTER RIDE

>> >

>> >IS 50 DOLLARS AND 50 DOLLARS IS 50 DOLLARS."

>> >

>> >A FEW YEARS LATER, ESTHER AND MORRIS WENT TO THE FAIR.

>> >

>> >MORRIS SAID, "ESTHER, I'M 85 YEARS OLD.

>> >

>> >IF I DON'T RIDE THAT HELICOPTER NOW,

>> >

>> >I MIGHT NEVER GET ANOTHER CHANCE."

>> >

>> >ESTHER REPLIED, "MORRIS,

>> >

>> >THAT HELICOPTER IS 50 DOLLARS AND $50 DOLLARS

>> >

>> >IS 50 DOLLARS."

>> >

>> >THE PILOT OVERHEARD THE COUPLE. HE SAID,

>> >

>> >"FOLKS, I'LL MAKE YOU A DEAL.

>> >

>> >I'LL TAKE THE BOTH OF YOU FOR A RIDE.

>> >

>> >IF YOU CAN STAY QUIET FOR THE ENTIRE

>> >

>> >RIDE AND NOT SAY A WORD,

>> >

>> >I WON'T CHARGE YOU! BUT IF YOU SAY ONE WORD,

>> >

>> >IT'S 50 DOLLARS."

>> >

>> >MORRIS AND ESTHER AGREED -- AND UP THEY WENT.

>> >

>> >THE PILOT DID ALL KINDS OF FANCY MANEUVERS.

>> >

>> >BUT NOT A WORD WAS HEARD.

>> >

>> >HE DID HIS DAREDEVIL TRICKS OVER AND OVER AGAIN,

>> >

>> >BUT STILL NOT A WORD.

>> >

>> >WHEN THEY LANDED, THE PILOT TURNED TO MORRIS.

>> >

>> >HE SAID, "BY GOLLY, I DID EVERYTHING I COULD TO GET YOU

>> >

>> >TO YELL OUT, BUT YOU DIDN'T. I'M IMPRESSED!"

>> >

>> >MORRIS REPLIED, "WELL, I WAS GOING TO SAY SOMETHING

>> >

>> >WHEN ESTHER FELL OUT,

>> >

>> >BUT 50 DOLLARS IS 50 DOLLARS."

>> >

>> >

> No, dear. If I refer to "my wife" or "my country" or
> "my God" that does not mean those entities are my
> possessions. The same is true of "my dog". It means
> the dog who lives with me and with whom I have a
> relationship of love and commitment.


Gorfindel - ^5!!! LOVE what you said

"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
> > "Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...
> >
> > pearl wrote:
> >
> >>>It's not a matter of belief. It is a scientifically-validated therapy.
> >>
> >>It is a scientifically WORTHLESS bit of quackery.
> >>There is ZERO scientific validation for foot massage,
> >>aka "reflexology". It's bullshit.
> >
> >
> > Reflexology treatment relieves symptoms of multiple sclerosis:
>
> Palliative, not systemic.

I'm certain that the sufferers didn't think it "worthless quackery".

'Reflexology treatment relieves symptoms of multiple sclerosis:
a randomised controlled study

http://prdupl02.ynet.co.il/ForumFiles/7123402.pdf

'Reflexology treatment relieves symptoms of multiple sclerosis:
a randomized controlled study
I Siev-Ner1, D Gamus1,*, L Lerner-Geva2 and A Achiron3
1Complementary Medicine Clinic, Department of Orthopedic Rehabilitation;
2Gertner Institute for Epidemiology and Health Policy Research; 3Multiple
Sclerosis Center, Sheba Medical Center, Tel-Hashomer, Israel

Objective:
To evaluate the effect of reflexology on symptoms of multiple sclerosis (MS)
in a randomized, sham-controlled clinical trial. Methods: Seventy-one MS
patients were randomized to either study or control group, to receive an
11-week treatment. Reflexology treatment included manual pressure on
specific points in the feet and massage of the calf area. The control group
received nonspecific massage of the calf area. The intensity of paresthesias,
urinary symptoms, muscle strength and spasticity was assessed in a masked
fashion at the beginning of the study, after 1.5 months of treatment, end of
study and at three months of follow-up. Results: Fifty-three patients
completed this study. Significant improvement in the differences in mean
scores of paresthesias (P¾/0.01), urinary symptoms (P¾/0.03)and spasticity
(P¾/0.03) was detected in the reflexology group. Improvement with borderline
significance was observed in the differences in mean scores of muscle strength
between the reflexology group and the controls (P¾/0.06). The improvement
in the intensity of paresthesias remained significant at three months of follow-up
(P¾/0.04). Conclusions: Specific reflexology treatment was of benefit in
alleviating motor, sensory and urinary symptoms in MS patients.
......

It is of interest note such positive effect of single intervention on a broad
range of symptoms. This may possibly stem from the holistic approach of
the reflexology (similarly to other complementary therapies), that treats the
whole person rather than specific symptoms. To the best of our knowledge,
this is the first randomized controlled study of reflexology treatment in MS
patients. We conclude that the treatment was safe, as the patients reported
no adverse effects. Moreover, reflexology positively affected muscle strength
and tonus and also reduced sensory and urinary symptoms. Further clinical
and laboratory studies are needed to validate these results and to understand
the mechanisms by which reflexology improves symptoms secondary to MS.
....
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache...k&ct=clnk&cd=1


Need I address any more of your mindless malignant pap, chumpo?

Hold your breath?

pearl wrote:
> "chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
>
>>pearl wrote:
>>
>>>"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...
>>>
>>>pearl wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>It's not a matter of belief. It is a scientifically-validated therapy.
>>>>
>>>>It is a scientifically WORTHLESS bit of quackery.
>>>>There is ZERO scientific validation for foot massage,
>>>>aka "reflexology". It's bullshit.
>>>
>>>
>>>Reflexology treatment relieves symptoms of multiple sclerosis:
>>
>>Palliative, not systemic.
>
>
> I'm certain that the sufferers didn't think it "worthless quackery".
>
> 'Reflexology treatment relieves symptoms of multiple sclerosis:
> a randomised controlled study
>
> http://prdupl02.ynet.co.il/ForumFiles/7123402.pdf

NONE of these studies are conclusive, and they are NOT
the accepted view of the medical community.

http://www.intelihealth.com/IH/ihtIH...l?d=dmtContent

wrote:

>>>>>>This is the site of a lobbying organization for foot
>>>>>>massagers. They have no credibility.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>There are no legitimate clinical studies that show
>>>>>>*any* directly therapeutic effect of foot rubbing for
>>>>>>any medical ailment. At best, foot massage has a
>>>>>>palliative effect on the fraud victim's mental state.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Those last two sentences are contradictory.
>>>>
>>>>No, shev, they aren't. Palliative benefits from touch therapies like
>>>>massage (back, feet, whatever) may make it easier to live with
>>>>migraines, but they don't cure migraines.
>>>
>>>You're saying a palliative benefit is not a direct therapeutic effect?
>>
>>No, because the underlying cause/issue remains.
>>
>>
>>>>>If a placebo can show direct therapeutic effect, and they often do, I'm
>>>>>sure a foot massage would be that much better.
>>>>
>>>>No better than music, laughter, or pets:
>>>>LAUGHTER
>>>>http://tinyurl.com/e2mn
>>>>http://tinyurl.com/e2mv
>>>>
>>>>MUSIC
>>>>http://tinyurl.com/e2nb
>>>>http://tinyurl.com/e2nf
>>>>
>>>>ANIMALS/PETS
>>>>http://tinyurl.com/e2nn
>>>>http://tinyurl.com/e2ns
>>>
>>>Good point.
>>
>>I try only to make that kind.
>>
>>
>>>I imagine your original foot massage advocate would also
>>>agree..
>>
>>She doesn't. She's a true-believer in reflexology.
>
> Why would a true believer in reflexology deny that music, laughter, and
> proximity to other animals could also have healthful effects?

She's a knucklehead who believes the earth is hollow and filled with
little green men. Ask her why reflexology works better or differently
than those other palliative therapies.

>>>we all have quite different nervous, endochrine, etc. systems
>>>as well as comforts and whatever floats your boat as they say.
>>
>>But we don't allow people to make unfounded, untrue statements about
>>medical procedures or potions. That's supposed to include flim-flam BS
>>like "alternative medicine."
>
> You don't allow people to make unfounded, untrue statements about
> medical procedures? I can't think of any other field where such
> statements are more rampant, and they have been for millenia.

This isn't the golden age of bloodletting and lead-based amalgams, and
it's ironic that you bring up the argument against "the ages" because
reflexology puts itself in that category. In our more enlightened,
scientific age, reflexology and other similar modalities like iridology
have been debunked.

<snip rest of your emotive rant against medical science>

(just remember how wrong you were about the polio vaccine)

wrote:
> pearl wrote:
>
>>"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message ink.net...
>>
>>
>>>There are no legitimate clinical studies that show
>>>*any* directly therapeutic effect of foot rubbing for
>>>any medical ailment. At best, foot massage has a
>>>palliative effect on the fraud victim's mental state.
>>
>>'Paediatr Nurs. 2003 Apr;15(3):20-1.
>>Reflexology in the management of encopresis and chronic constipation.
>>Bishop E, McKinnon E, Weir E, Brown DW.
>>
>>Encopresis or faecal incontinence in children is an extremely distressing
>>condition that is usually secondary to chronic constipation/stool withholding.
>>Traditional management with enemas may add to the child's distress. This
>>study investigated the efficacy of treating patients with encopresis and
>>chronic constipation with reflexology. An observational study was carried
>>out of 50 children between three and 14 years of age who had a diagnosis
>>of encopresis/chronic constipation. The children received six sessions of
>>30-minutes of reflexology to their feet. With the help of their parents they
>>completed questionnaires on bowel motions and soiling patterns before,
>>during and after the treatment. A further questionnaire was completed by
>>parents pre and post treatment on their attitude towards reflexology.
>>Forty-eight of the children completed the sessions. The number of bowel
>>motions increased and the incidence of soiling decreased. Parents were
>>keen to try the reflexology and were satisfied with the effect of reflexology
>>on their child's condition. It appears that reflexology has been an effective
>>method of treating encopresis and constipation over a six-week period in
>>this cohort of patients.
>
> These kids are told to eat animals and are vitamin C deficient.
> Reflexology or laxatives may help but don't address the problem. I
> couldn't downloade the whole article.. did the authors make any mention
> at all of diet?? We are talking about the digestive system after all.

It wasn't a double blind study, shev. There's no evidence that these
children were "told to eat meat and are vitamin C deficient." As far as
vitamin C supplementation goes, another new study suggests it's a waste
of money and could do more harm than good:
http://tinyurl.com/qd9sy

retardedly wrote:


> pearl wrote:
>
>>"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message k.net...
>>
>>pearl wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>>>http://www.reflexology-research.com/abstracts.htm
>>>>>
>>>>>There are no legitimate clinical studies
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>All of the abstracts on that page are
>>>
>>>Bullshit. They are *not* from any legitimate clinical
>>>studies.
>>
>>'Forsch Komplementarmed. 1999 Jun;6(3):129-34.
>>[Changes of renal blood flow during organ-associated foot reflexology
>>measured by color Doppler sonography]
>>[Article in German]
>>Sudmeier I, Bodner G, Egger I, Mur E, Ulmer H, Herold M.
>>Universitatsklinik fur Innere Medizin, Innsbruck, Austria.
>>
>>Using colour Doppler sonography blood flow changes of the right kidney
>>during foot reflexology were determined in a placebo-controlled, double-blind,
>>randomised study. 32 healthy young adults (17 women, 15 men) were
>>randomly assigned to the verum or placebo group. The verum group received
>>foot reflexology at zones corresponding to the right kidney, the placebo group
>>was treated on other foot zones. Before, during and after foot reflexology the
>>blood flow of three vessels of the right kidney was measured using colour
>>Doppler sonography. Systolic peak velocity and end diastolic peak velocity
>>were measured in cm/s, and the resistive index, a parameter of the vascular
>>resistance, was calculated. The resistive index in the verum group showed a
>>highly significant decrease (p </= 0.001) during and an increase (p = 0.001)
>>after foot reflexology. There was no difference between men and women and
>>no difference between smokers and non-smokers. Verum and placebo group
>>significantly differed concerning alterations of the resistive index both between
>>the measuring points before versus during foot reflexology (p = 0.002) and
>>those during versus after foot reflexology (p = 0.031). The significant decrease
>>of the resistive index during foot reflexology in the verum group indicates a
>>decrease of flow resistance in renal vessels and an increase of renal blood flow.
>>These findings support the hypothesis that organ-associated foot reflexology
>>is effective in changing renal blood flow during therapy.
>>
>>Publication Types:
>>Clinical Trial
>>Randomized Controlled Trial
>>
>>
>
>
> That's all well and good, but we still aren't going to see reflexology
> gold stamped by the medical beaurocracy any time soon.

It doesn't need a gold stamp from "the medical beaurocracy" [sic] if it
actually works. It doesn't.

> The usual
> reasons: too inexpensive, and not "patented". Show me the money.

What about, It fails in every ****ing double blind trial? Doctors
recommend many treatments and preventive measures that cost little or
nothing and provide them with no additional income. "Show me the money"
applies to the "alternative medicine" (should read: "alternative to
science") swindlers to lull gullible and desperate people into parting
with money for bogus treatment.

> On the bright side, you shouldn't really care.

She doesn't, so long as the people she dupes pay her to rub their feet.

> Your reflexologist is
> probably better at what he/she does now than if they had to deal with
> kickbacks, paperwork, drug pushers, etc.

WTF are you prating about now, shev? That's a broad brush, but I know
it's your MO to use one and then back-track.

> Aren't you glad you don't
> have to go to a hospital?

Reflexology doesn't prevent cancer or Alzheimer's patients from
requiring REAL medical care, dumbass. No matter how much "alternative"
medicine those patients receive, they still require the REAL thing to
deal with or survive their conditions.

> If your insurance doesn't pay for it, that's
> your problem for buying the insurance.

Insurance shouldn't pay for bogus treatments.

> Anyway, such a change in blood flow could be entirely psychosomatic.

Every single instance which she's cited benefits have pertained to
psychosomatic complaints: PMS cramps, whether or not some kid can take a
shit and feel good for it, etc.

Karen Winter, abandoner of good child and adopter of drug-addled HIV+
street urchin, wrote:

> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
> Karen Winter, abandoner of good child and adopter of drug-addled HIV+ street urchin, wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>>> I do know massage therapy helped a companion dog
>
>
> <snip>
>
>>> of mine
>
>
>> At least you admit possession of it.
>
>
> No, dear.

Don't call me by terms of affection, you depraved old woman. Tell me how
your views on pedophilia, bestiality, and homosexuality jibe with
"anglo-catholicism". Stop running away from the arguments you raise.

> If I refer to "my wife"

That foul, FAS-defective, anti-social old woman isn't your wife. Your
state doesn't recognize any marriage -- legal, common law, etc. --
between you and Sylvia.

<...>
> before you say it, it is *NOT* a sexual relationship.

Why are you so defensive about that?