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chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 01:03 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
Derek wrote:

>>I disagree with your self-identification as an expert in the field of
>>animal behavior. Your background is that of a history major with a
>>series of serious failures in your family and work life: abandoning a
>>child, in and out of marriages, living in some goofy dress-up commune,
>>and chucking everything to indulge yourself in every form of
>>perversion and self-debasement you could find in LA and SF.

>
>
> 825 CALLE MEJIA SANTA FE NM, to be precise.
>
> Karen Winter - http://tinyurl.com/phzan
> Sylvia Stevens - http://tinyurl.com/puaj9
>
> And here's a Google Maps link showing the route from their
> hovel on Calle Mejia to their closest Episcopal church, Church
> of the Holy Faith: http://tinyurl.com/ncea2.
>
> [..]



It's not a hovel, it's a trailer. And whatever you may have done over at
Google, your message is still bouncing around usenet.

pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 01:16 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
> >>>>>>>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
> >>>>>>>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
> >>>>>>>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
> >>>>>>>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> >>>>>>>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
> >>>>>>>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
> >>>>>>>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>><...>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Here you see the group of priests with torches...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>It's silly pageantry, that's all.
> >>>>
> >>>>Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the questions.
> >>>
> >>>I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for WASPs.
> >>
> >>The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where they mock
> >>the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.
> >>
> >>
> >>>No, it isn't.
> >>
> >>Yes, it is.

> >
> >
> > No, it isn't.

>
> Yes, it is.


Nope.

> > Your boy shrub is a member of a Satanic cult that meets at B-G.

>
> He's a member of Tarrytown United Methodist.


He's a member of Skull and Bones. Are you?

> > In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world had now
> > entered into a New World Order.

>
> Why the capital letters? And what do you find so grievous about the
> following from that speech (not announcement)?


<snip empty blah>

> And with respect to the phrase, it's been part of our nation for some
> time. Albeit in Latin: "Novus Ordo Seclorum" is printed on our currency.


Yes, we are aware of that.

'The German Brotherhood of Death Society is the Thule Society. Adolf Hitler
joined this society in 1919, becoming an adept under the leadership of Dietrich
Eckhart. Later, the Thule Society selected Hitler to be their leader of the New
World Order, as Eckhart revealed on his deathbed, saying, "Follow Hitler; he
will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I have initiated him into the
Secret Doctrine, opened his centers in vision, and given him the means to
communicate with the powers." (Trevor Ravenscroft, The Spear Of Destiny,
p. 91).'

> > Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
> > American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society.

>
> Non sequitur.


You wish.

'Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society. As we stated
earlier, Bush's New World Order is virtually identical with Hitler's; the key
connecting point is the common membership in their respective Brotherhood ..
(Behold A Pale Horse, p. 81; Introduction To The Order, p.7).

We will study this connection in depth today. Let us begin with a quick overview
of the Thule Society, beginning with a study of its practices and relevant history.

* They were Satanists who practiced Black Magic -- this means that they were
"solely concerned with raising their consciousness by means of rituals to
awareness of evil and nonhuman intelligences in the universe; and with achieving
means of communication with these intelligences." (Ravenscroft, p. 161).
Concentrate on that seemingly innocent word, rituals. Christians equate a ritual
to a church service, thereby not understanding its occultic meaning. The New
Age Dictionary defines ritual as a "ceremony to restore balance with nature...
and bring back lost harmony and sacredness." Remember we are dealing with
the Satanic world, where good is called evil and evil good. The sacredness
mentioned here is a Satanic sacredness. Rituals literally are proscribed activities
designed to allow demonic power to flow through the participants. These
activities are proscribed chants, formula wordings, and carefully planned actions.
As we noted last week, the effect is devastatingly powerful, as demonic force
pours through the participants, delivering a counterfeit spiritual experience
which literally transforms their lives. Never skip over the word ritual, as it is a
word of Satanic power.

* Thule members practiced a form of Sexual Magic derived from a lodge of
which Aleister Crowley was a member. Crowley was recognized as the foremost
worshipper of Satan in the 19th Century. "The origin of this...medieval magic...
can be traced to a Freemason, Robert Little, who founded the Societas
Rosicruciana in 1865... (Ravenscroft, Spear of Destiny, p. 164-5). While the
actual sexual perversions which were practiced are too offensive to share, the
results are not. Author Revenscroft stated that "indulgence in the most sadistic
rituals awakened penetrating vision into the workings of Evil Intelligences and
bestowed phenomenal magical powers." (Ibid. p. 167). This is the Thule Society.

Ravenscroft records its effect upon Hitler, "...sexual perversion took a central
place in [Hitler's] life...a monstrous sexual perversion was the very core of his
whole existence, the source of his mediumistic and clairvoyant powers, and the
motivation behind every act through which he reaped a sadistic vengeance on
humanity." (Ibid., p. 171).

Eckart's final act was to initiate Hitler into "a monstrous sadistic magic ritual...
after which he was sexually impotent. Hitler's impotency had a deep
psychological foundation. He knew sexual fulfillment through the extremes of
sadism and masochism... "(Ravenscroft, p. 155, 173). This impotency delivered
a final devastating blow to Hitler's psychological foundation, finally making him
into the sadistic murderer that history knows.
....
As Rosenbaum continued his research, he found definite links between Bones
and the Bavarian Illuminists. The Bavarian Illuminists were part of the original
Masters of the Illuminati. First, Rosenbaum discovered documents which detailed
the origins of Bones back to Germany. These documents stated, "Bones is a
chapter of a corps of a German University..." The document described at length
its relationship with this German Secret Society (the Thule Society) which lead
to the founding of the Skull and Bones in 1832.
......
The Skull and Bones also incorporates sexual activities into their practices.
"The death of the initiate will be as frightful as the use of human skeletons and
ritual psychology can make it..." (Esquire Magazine, "The Last Secrets of
Skull and Bones", Ron Rosenbaum, p. 89). Sexual perversion is part of ritual
psychology. Ron Rosenbaum, author of the Esquire Magazine article, stated
that on initiation night, called tap night, "...if one could climb to the tower of
Weir Hall, the odd castle that overlooks the Bones courtyard, one could hear
strange cries and moans coming from the bowels of the tomb as the 15 newly
tapped members were put through what sounded like a harrowing ordeal..."
(Esquire, September, 1976, p. 86).

Further,[initiates] "lay naked in coffins and tell their deepest and darkest sexual
secrets as part of their initiation." (Esquire, p. 85). These experiences in the
coffins incorporated sexual pain and resulted in being born-again, into the Order,
as we mentioned above. (Cooper, p.95) Powerful force charges through the
participants of these ceremonies, transforming their lives dramatically. This type
ritual is classic Satanism. Anton LaVey states, in his book The Satanic Rituals:
Companion To The Satanic Bible, (p. 57)

"The ceremony of rebirth takes place in a large coffin..This is similar to the
coffin symbolism that...is found in most lodge rituals." Make no mistake about
it: Any organization which utilizes this coffin ritual to simulate rebirth is practising
Satanism, including Skull and Bones.
.......'
http://web.archive.org/web/200410120.../nwothule.html

'The program cover for the ceremony "Cremation of Care" depicts a skeleton,
a demon, and the huge owl illuminated by flames. A small white drawing above
the name of the director depicts a demon or devil with the initials PJ sweeping
something up with a witch's broom.

See exclusive video stills of the ceremony at the website:
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

Watch actual video clips of the ceremony at:
http://www.infowars.com/videos.html

Descriptions of the video clips are as follows:

Here you see the group of priests with torches, in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The high priest is rationalizing the fact that human sacrifice brings beauty
into the world.

Here you see the group of priests with torches in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The priest praises the owl-god and tells everyone to be reverend before him.

This clip shows the boatman in black-hooded garb journeying across the lake
to the owl god, Molak, with the human effigy (we hope) sacrifice. The boatman's
face was painted to resemble that of a skull. The priests on the right await their victim.

Watch and hear the screams as the simulated human sacrifice takes place to the
great owl of Babylon. Midsummer is the high holy point for luciferians and occultists
- hear the priest's words as he burns the effigy - "once again midsummer sets us free."
....
Ask any Native American elder. When Owl manifests in a stone form, it means a
lack of empathy. Shamans the world over manifest their power animals as living
beings, just as they are in nature, not as stone idols. . When people begin to see
their power animals as stone idols it means they have lost their empathy with the
four leggeds of the animal kingdom, and with the two leggeds, the humans.
It means they are pursuing self interest over service to others.
....'
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/newstart/bohemian-grove/

> >> and that
> >> Israelis should sit back and take all those

> >
> > DU armaments from the USA

>
> We should be sending them even more weapons than we are.


Of course you think that, you monster.

> >> Iranian-funded missiles from
> >> Hezbollah up their asses and forgive and forget about Shalit and anyone
> >> else Hamas and Hezbollah want to kidnap and kill.

> >
> > You'd like us to forget about the the murders in Gaza

>
> Which ones? The ones in retaliation for suicide bombings? I don't
> consider targeting buildings where explosive vests or rockets are being
> made to constitute murder.


Friday, 9 June 2006, 18:28 GMT 19:28 UK

Palestinians killed on Gaza beach

The shelling has caused outrage among Palestinians

Seven people, including three children, have been killed by Israeli shells
which hit a beach in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials say.

At least 30 people were wounded in the shelling, they say.

The Israeli military says it has halted all shelling of Gaza and has
launched an inquiry into whether ground-based artillery could have
been involved.

In a statement, the military wing of Hamas threatened to resume attacks
on Israel in the wake of "massacres".

The group has been observing a self-imposed ceasefire for more than a year.

Although there have been threats of a response to other attacks in recent
months, the BBC's Simon Wilson in Jerusalem says the move is significant
because it appears on the official website of the armed wing of the group.

There was no immediate word from the political wing of Hamas, which
dominates the government in the Palestinian Authority.

Four other people were also killed in separate Israeli air strike in northern
Gaza on Friday, Palestinians said.
....'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065008.stm

> > and the many thousands
> > of Palestinians rotting away in Israeli prisons - including women and children.

>
> You say "children," I say "juveniles." Why are they imprisoned or in
> camps? Because they've presented a danger to [you won't say "other
> children" so I'll say] Israeli soldiers or Israeli citizens (Arab
> Christians and Jews alike). Same for women who are known associates of
> terrorists.


'Former Israel Prime Minster, Yitzhak Rabin, said in an uncensored
version of his memoirs, published in the New York Times on 23 October
23rd, 1979:

'We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
question - What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion
waved his hand in a gesture which said "Drive them out!"'

And that's what they did.

The Arabs were driven out of power or consequence in their own land by
Zionist terrorist groups like Hagana, Irgun and the Stern Gang (also known
as Lehi) who bombed and assassinated Arabs, fellow Jews and the British
administrators who had control over Palestine under a mandate from the
League of Nations and the Versailles Peace Conference. 'Palestine' was
then the region we now call Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza Strip,
formerly belonging to the Ottoman Empire.

This Zionist terrorism led to the imposition of the Jewish state in 1948
when 750,000 or more Arabic people were expelled from their own land.
Among the major players in these and other terrorist operations were
Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, butchers who became
Israeli Prime Ministers and had the nerve to condemn Arab terrorism.
......
It is claimed that everything started with the kidnapping of the Israeli
soldiers, but we need to go back at least to June 9th when Israel shelled
a beach in Gaza killing eight Palestinians and injuring 32 civilians,
including 13 children. The dead included seven members of one family.
The Israeli government offered its 'deep regret', but this outrage was no
accident. It was part of the process of instigating a reaction so that
what has happened since could unfold.

On June 13th ,an Israeli plane fired at a vehicle on a busy Gaza road and
when civilians hurried to help the injured another missile was fired into
the crowd. Eleven Palestinians died, including two medical staff and two
children.

Come on, the Israeli government was saying - retaliate. We have the gun
clocked, we're ready to go, and we just need you to give us the excuse to
pull the trigger.

If Arab people had done the same they would have been called terrorists,
the pimps of the 'world community' would have been red-faced in their
condemnation, and Israel's American-funded military would have done
what have these past ten days.

The outrageous double-standards are just sickening. I saw some former
Israel military commander this week saying how terrible it was that Israeli
children had to be sitting in bomb shelters in Haifa when, as she spoke
those words, children were being killed by Israeli bombs in Lebanon.

But then Israeli Prime Minister and terrorist, Menachem Begin, told the
Israeli parliament that Palestinians 'are beasts walking on two legs' and
another Prime Minister and terrorist, Yitzhak Shamir, said in a speech to
Jewish settlers that the Palestinians 'would would be crushed like
grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls'. ('Begin
and the 'Beasts', New Statesman, June 25, 1982, and Yitzhak Shamir
quoted in the New York Times April 1st, 1988). That is what they really
think.
...
The creation of Israel was never an end in itself. It has always been a
means to an end. All along, the plan has been to target the Islamic world
to trigger a global war that would set the world ablaze and lead to the
'solution' of centralised control of the planet and all its peoples. To do
that they needed to create a point of conflict, a power keg, among the
Arab countries that could be exploded to start another global conflict.
This is the real reason for the creation of Israel and the real reason why
the United States has spent its billions building up Israel's might and
military.
...
This is the historical background, the falling dominoes, that have led to
what is happening today with hundreds of Lebanese killed, more than
half a million made refugees, and missiles killing and maiming Israelis
who are manipulated and programmed by their own sick government to
believe the Big Lie.

Of course, Arab terrorism is equally wrong. Violence just begets
violence, only peace begets peace. Every kidnapping, death and injury
is a personal and family tragedy and none is more or less important than
any other. The sight of the Hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah, calling
two Arab children in Israel killed by Hezbollah rockets 'martyrs for
Palestine' was gut-wrenching. There are idiots and terrorist fanatics on
both sides and I have no illusions about the suppression of freedom in
Syria or Iran either. It is a case of seeing the big picture in which the
monstrous game is being played out and putting the Arab response into
its historical context.
....
http://lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=6814

'As a result of their visible activity in the current Intifada, Palestinian
women have not escaped the mass arrest campaigns. Palestinian women
in detention are subjected to mistreatment on a daily basis and are often
held in cells and sections with Israeli criminal prisoners. Regular body
searches are performed with brutality by prison guards; sexual harassment
occurs frequently; the right to elect a representative for their collective
demands is not recognized as in other prisons; solitary confinement is
often used as a form of punishment; detainees are prohibited from going
outside regularly or of using the canteen; cell searches and confiscation
of personal belongings is a common practice; and attacks on women by
beating or firing tear gas into cells occur regularly.

At the end of 2004, there were over 120 Palestinian women being held by
Israeli authorities. The number has steadily increased over the years of
the Intifada making this the largest number of female detainees held by
Israel in two-decades. Female prisoners are placed in 2 central prisons,
Neve Tresta and Hasharon-Telmond.

17 of these women are mothers, two women, Mervat Taha and Manal
Ghanem, gave birth while in detention and Manal continues to live with
her child, Nour, inside the prison. Mervat was recently released with her
son, Wa'el, now 2 years old has lived his entire life inside the prison.
There are currently eight girls (under age 18) inside Israeli jails in
addition to a number of women who have turned 18 while they were
imprisoned. Israel detains children as young as 12 years old, in blatant
contravention of the internationally accepted designation of any individual
under the age of 18 as a child. Israeli military regulations stipulate that a
child is anyone under the age of 16, whilst Israeli law stipulates this age
to be under 18.

Many Palestinian women prisoners are transferred to Neve Tertza Prison,
one of six sections of Ramleh Prison after their interrogation process.
Here Palestinian female detainees remain detained within the same section
as Israeli criminal female prisoners accused of crimes such as murder,
theft, drug use, and prostitution. Mixing Palestinian prisoners with Israeli
criminal prisoners has created a great deal of tension within the prison,
particularly as political prisoners should be separated from other categories
of prisoners.

The prison administration continues to humiliate Palestinian female prisoners
by forcing them to strip in front of prison guards while their hands are cuffed,
and then to dress before these same guards. The administration conducts
regular searches of prison cells, confiscating personal property and papers.

The prison administration has diligently worked at breaking the unity of the
female detainees by isolating them from the outside world and preventing
family visits. Correspondence to and from the prison is also prohibited, and
newspapers are allowed in the prison but are delayed by a few days. Visits
amongst other prisoners are prevented and daily breaks have been reduced
to half an hour. Palestinian women prisoners at Neve Tertza Prison reported
that their conditions of detention were extremely difficult, with no glass
protecting windows in the cells and insects and vermin found throughout the
prison. Because of the prevention of family visits, prisoners do not have
adequate winter clothing or extra food to supplement the small food portions
they receive in prison.

Some Palestinian female prisoners have been arrested as a means of placing
pressure on their husbands. Asma' Abu el-Hayja, for example, who is 40
years old and is suffering from brain cancer, is being held in an administrative
detention in order to pressure her husband who is also under detention.
Mrs. Ablaa' Saadat was arrested on 21 January 2003 as she travelled as a
Palestinian representative to the World Social Forum in Brazil. Saadat is the
wife of the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine (PFLP). She was give four months administrative detention
following her arrest. She was told by an interrogator that her arrest was
merely a demonstration that 'they' can do whatever they want. She was also
told that if her husband had 'blood on his hands' they would kill her children.

http://www.addameer.org/detention/women.html

>>>>>> You have tried to defend and cover up the most
>>>>>> heinous crimes against humanity,

>
>>>>> Examples?

>
>>>> Mass murder through 'war'

>
>> >Where's your contempt for those who started it? Oh wait, you think the
>> >planes were flown by remote control and it just happened to have some
>> >fellows who'd trained in bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan;

> >
> >You wish to discuss 911? OK. Start by refuting this:
> >http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones#Critics


'In 1973, Jones earned his bachelors degree in physics, magna *** laude,
from Brigham Young University, and his PhD in physics from Vanderbilt
University in 1978. Jones conducted his PhD research at the Stanford Linear
Accelerator Center (from 1974 to 1977), and post-doctoral research at
Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility.

Research interests and background

Jones conducted research at the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
in Arco, Idaho, from 1979 to 1985, where he was a senior engineering
specialist. He was the principal investigator for experimental muon-catalyzed
fusion from 1982 to 1991 for the U.S. Department of Energy, Division of
Advanced Energy Projects. From 1990 to 1993, Jones researched fusion in
condensed matter and deuterium, for the U.S. Department of Energy and
for the Electric Power Research Institute.

Jones has also been a collaborator in several experiments, including
experiments at TRIUMF (Vancouver, British Columbia), The National
High Energy Laboratory, KEK (Tsukuba, Japan), and the Rutherford
Appleton Laboratory at Oxford University.

Jones specializes in Metal-catalyzed fusion, Archaeometry and Solar
energy [2].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

'Here are some of the kinds of considerations that these experts and
scholars find profoundly troubling:

* In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings
have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11,
so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

* The BBC has reported that at least five of the nineteen alleged "hijackers"
have turned up alive and well living in Saudi Arabia, yet according to the
FBI, they were among those killed in the attacks. How is this possible?

* Frank DeMartini, a project manager for the WTC, said the buildings
were designed with load redistribution capabilities to withstand the
impact of airliners, whose effects would be like "puncturing mosquito
netting with a pencil." Yet they completely collapsed. How is this possible?

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?
...
Their own physics research has established that only controlled
demolitions are consistent with the near-gravity speed of fall and virtually
symmetrical collapse of all three of the WTC buildings. While turning
concrete into very fine dust, they fell straight-down into their own footprints.
...'
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/P...30Jan2006.html

>> * Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F,


>> Answer the questions


> I'll address this one irrelevant point,


You'll address ALL of it, psychoid.

> for upon it your conspiracy theory house of cards crumbles.


Like three steel-frame high-rise buildings CRUMBLED?

> Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The temperature

for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design strengths
-- considering even the redundancies built in from sound engineering
practices, something which you're not qualified to discuss since you
flunked out of engineering school - ANOTHER LIE - is far below
2700°F. And fwiw, jet fuel can burn at temperatures higher than your
2700°F mark given the right circumstances (e.g., large volumes of
oxygen -- which was the case on 9/11 given the size of the holes
> made by the planes).


Huge gaping holes? No. Read again what you snipped, neo-con shill.

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?

Below, from the first link you posted, you fool. Didn't you read it? -

'THE FIRE

The fire is the most misunderstood part of the WTC collapse. Even today,
the media report (and many scientists believe) that the steel melted. It is
argued that the jet fuel burns very hot, especially with so much fuel present.
This is not true.

Part of the problem is that people (including engineers) often confuse
temperature and heat. While they are related, they are not the same.
Thermodynamically, the heat contained in a material is related to the
temperature through the heat capacity and the density (or mass).
Temperature is defined as an intensive property, meaning that it does
not vary with the quantity of material, while the heat is an extensive
property, which does vary with the amount of material. One way to
distinguish the two is to note that if a second log is added to the
fireplace, the temperature does not double; it stays roughly the same,
but the size of the fire or the length of time the fire burns, or a
combination of the two, doubles. Thus, the fact that there were
90,000 L of jet fuel on a few floors of the WTC does not mean that
this was an unusually hot fire. The temperature of the fire at the WTC
was not unusual, and it was most definitely not capable of melting steel.
...
In a diffuse flame, the fuel and the oxidant are not mixed before ignition,
but flow together in an uncontrolled manner and combust when the
fuel/oxidant ratios reach values within the flammable range. A fireplace
flame is a diffuse flame burning in air, as was the WTC fire.

Diffuse flames generate the lowest heat intensities of the three flame types.

If the fuel and the oxidant start at ambient temperature, a maximum flame
temperature can be defined. For carbon burning in pure oxygen, the
maximum is 3,200°C; for hydrogen it is 2,750°C. Thus, for virtually any
hydrocarbons, the maximum flame temperature, starting at ambient
temperature and using pure oxygen, is approximately 3,000°C.

This maximum flame temperature is reduced by two-thirds if air is used
rather than pure oxygen. The reason is that every molecule of oxygen
releases the heat of formation of a molecule of carbon monoxide and a
molecule of water. If pure oxygen is used, this heat only needs to heat
two molecules (carbon monoxide and water), while with air, these two
molecules must be heated plus four molecules of nitrogen. Thus, burning
hydrocarbons in air produces only one-third the temperature increase as
burning in pure oxygen because three times as many molecules must be
heated when air is used. The maximum flame temperature increase for
burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1,000°C-hardly
sufficient to melt steel at 1,500°C.

But it is very difficult to reach this maximum temperature with a diffuse
flame. There is nothing to ensure that the fuel and air in a diffuse flame
are mixed in the best ratio. Typically, diffuse flames are fuel rich, meaning
that the excess fuel molecules, which are unburned, must also be heated.
It is known that most diffuse fires are fuel rich because blowing on a
campfire or using a blacksmith's bellows increases the rate of combustion
by adding more oxygen. This fuel-rich diffuse flame can drop the
temperature by up to a factor of two again. This is why the temperatures
in a residential fire are usually in the 500°C to 650°C range.2,3 It is known
that the WTC fire was a fuel-rich, diffuse flame as evidenced by the
copious black smoke. Soot is generated by incompletely burned fuel;
hence, the WTC fire was fuel rich-hardly surprising with 90,000 L of
jet fuel available. Factors such as flame volume and quantity of soot
decrease the radiative heat loss in the fire, moving the temperature closer
to the maximum of 1,000°C. However, it is highly unlikely that the steel
at the WTC experienced temperatures above the 750-800°C range. All
reports that the steel melted at 1,500°C are using imprecise terminology
at best.
...
It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses
about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in
this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient,
by itself, to explain the WTC collapse. It was noted above that the wind
load controlled the design allowables. The WTC, on this low-wind day,
was likely not stressed more than a third of the design allowable, which
is roughly one-fifth of the yield strength of the steel. Even with its strength
halved, the steel could still support two to three times the stresses imposed
by a 650°C fire.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html

> <...>
> > It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses
> > about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in
> > this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient,
> > by itself, to explain the WTC collapse.

>
> Yes, it is. Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The
> temperature for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design
> strengths -- considering even the redundancies built in from sound
> engineering practices,


The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do that?

Try again, dumbass, and address ALL of it this time. I'll keep posting
it until you do, or you get the hell out of here. Either way is fine by me.





pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 01:18 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> >>>I'm asking you please to REMOVE those messages containing
> >>>personal details.
> >>
> >>Done.

> >
> > Thank you VERY MUCH.

>
> They're still here. Heh.


They won't be for much longer. But now we know YOU'VE seen it.



pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 01:19 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 

"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
>
> > >I'm just a low-life liar.

>
> Most people realize this the moment they see my drivel.


They sure do.



pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 01:19 PM

an observation about "the side"
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...

> I lost my braincell


Poor dear.



pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 01:20 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...

You miserable f*ck.



chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 01:21 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
pearl wrote:

> You miserable f*ck.


I love you, too, Lesley.

pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 01:35 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...

> pearl wrote:
>
> > You miserable f*ck.

>
> I love you, too, Lesley.


I don't love you. Get over it.



chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 01:39 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 
pearl wrote:

>>>>>>>>>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
>>>>>>>>>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
>>>>>>>>>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
>>>>>>>>>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
>>>>>>>>>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
>>>>>>>>>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
>>>>>>>>>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
>>>>>>>>>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>><...>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Here you see the group of priests with torches...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It's silly pageantry, that's all.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the questions.
>>>>>
>>>>>I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for WASPs.
>>>>
>>>>The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where they mock
>>>>the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.
>>>>
>>>>>No, it isn't.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, it is.
>>>
>>>No, it isn't.

>>
>>Yes, it is.

>
> Nope.


Yes, it's a lot of pomp to get the WASPs' minds off other things. That's
all.

>>>Your boy shrub is a member of a Satanic cult that meets at B-G.

>>
>>He's a member of Tarrytown United Methodist.

>
> He's a member of Skull and Bones.


So what? It's a fraternity. Some frats do weird things. BFD.

> Are you?


No, I didn't attend Yale.

>>>In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world had now
>>>entered into a New World Order.

>>
>>Why the capital letters? And what do you find so grievous about the
>>following from that speech (not announcement)?

>
> <snip empty blah>


That's the same kind of "empty blah" that gets your panties moist when
spoken by "empty blah" leftists. It's also the same kind of "hippy love"
[sic] "empty blah" that led your husband to leave you.

>>And with respect to the phrase, it's been part of our nation for some
>>time. Albeit in Latin: "Novus Ordo Seclorum" is printed on our currency.

>
> Yes, we are aware of that.


"We"? lol

>>>Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
>>>American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society.

>>
>>Non sequitur.

>
> You wish.


It's irrelevant. Just like you are.

chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 01:41 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
pearl wrote:

>>>You miserable f*ck.

>>
>>I love you, too, Lesley.

>
> I don't love you. Get over it.


I know it won't break your black little heart, but I think I already am.

pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 01:46 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:


> >>>>>>>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
> >>>>>>>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
> >>>>>>>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
> >>>>>>>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
> >>>>>>>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> >>>>>>>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
> >>>>>>>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
> >>>>>>>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>><...>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Here you see the group of priests with torches...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>It's silly pageantry, that's all.
> >>>>
> >>>>Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the questions.
> >>>
> >>>I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for WASPs.
> >>
> >>The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where they mock
> >>the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.
> >>
> >>
> >>>No, it isn't.
> >>
> >>Yes, it is.

> >
> >
> > No, it isn't.

>
> Yes, it is.


Nope.

> > Your boy shrub is a member of a Satanic cult that meets at B-G.

>
> He's a member of Tarrytown United Methodist.


He's a member of Skull and Bones. Are you?

> > In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world had now
> > entered into a New World Order.

>
> Why the capital letters? And what do you find so grievous about the
> following from that speech (not announcement)?


<snip empty blah>

> And with respect to the phrase, it's been part of our nation for some
> time. Albeit in Latin: "Novus Ordo Seclorum" is printed on our currency.


Yes, we are aware of that.

'The German Brotherhood of Death Society is the Thule Society. Adolf Hitler
joined this society in 1919, becoming an adept under the leadership of Dietrich
Eckhart. Later, the Thule Society selected Hitler to be their leader of the New
World Order, as Eckhart revealed on his deathbed, saying, "Follow Hitler; he
will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I have initiated him into the
Secret Doctrine, opened his centers in vision, and given him the means to
communicate with the powers." (Trevor Ravenscroft, The Spear Of Destiny,
p. 91).'

> > Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
> > American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society.

>
> Non sequitur.


You wish.

'Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society. As we stated
earlier, Bush's New World Order is virtually identical with Hitler's; the key
connecting point is the common membership in their respective Brotherhood ..
(Behold A Pale Horse, p. 81; Introduction To The Order, p.7).

We will study this connection in depth today. Let us begin with a quick overview
of the Thule Society, beginning with a study of its practices and relevant history.

* They were Satanists who practiced Black Magic -- this means that they were
"solely concerned with raising their consciousness by means of rituals to
awareness of evil and nonhuman intelligences in the universe; and with achieving
means of communication with these intelligences." (Ravenscroft, p. 161).
Concentrate on that seemingly innocent word, rituals. Christians equate a ritual
to a church service, thereby not understanding its occultic meaning. The New
Age Dictionary defines ritual as a "ceremony to restore balance with nature...
and bring back lost harmony and sacredness." Remember we are dealing with
the Satanic world, where good is called evil and evil good. The sacredness
mentioned here is a Satanic sacredness. Rituals literally are proscribed activities
designed to allow demonic power to flow through the participants. These
activities are proscribed chants, formula wordings, and carefully planned actions.
As we noted last week, the effect is devastatingly powerful, as demonic force
pours through the participants, delivering a counterfeit spiritual experience
which literally transforms their lives. Never skip over the word ritual, as it is a
word of Satanic power.

* Thule members practiced a form of Sexual Magic derived from a lodge of
which Aleister Crowley was a member. Crowley was recognized as the foremost
worshipper of Satan in the 19th Century. "The origin of this...medieval magic...
can be traced to a Freemason, Robert Little, who founded the Societas
Rosicruciana in 1865... (Ravenscroft, Spear of Destiny, p. 164-5). While the
actual sexual perversions which were practiced are too offensive to share, the
results are not. Author Revenscroft stated that "indulgence in the most sadistic
rituals awakened penetrating vision into the workings of Evil Intelligences and
bestowed phenomenal magical powers." (Ibid. p. 167). This is the Thule Society.

Ravenscroft records its effect upon Hitler, "...sexual perversion took a central
place in [Hitler's] life...a monstrous sexual perversion was the very core of his
whole existence, the source of his mediumistic and clairvoyant powers, and the
motivation behind every act through which he reaped a sadistic vengeance on
humanity." (Ibid., p. 171).

Eckart's final act was to initiate Hitler into "a monstrous sadistic magic ritual...
after which he was sexually impotent. Hitler's impotency had a deep
psychological foundation. He knew sexual fulfillment through the extremes of
sadism and masochism... "(Ravenscroft, p. 155, 173). This impotency delivered
a final devastating blow to Hitler's psychological foundation, finally making him
into the sadistic murderer that history knows.
....
As Rosenbaum continued his research, he found definite links between Bones
and the Bavarian Illuminists. The Bavarian Illuminists were part of the original
Masters of the Illuminati. First, Rosenbaum discovered documents which detailed
the origins of Bones back to Germany. These documents stated, "Bones is a
chapter of a corps of a German University..." The document described at length
its relationship with this German Secret Society (the Thule Society) which lead
to the founding of the Skull and Bones in 1832.
......
The Skull and Bones also incorporates sexual activities into their practices.
"The death of the initiate will be as frightful as the use of human skeletons and
ritual psychology can make it..." (Esquire Magazine, "The Last Secrets of
Skull and Bones", Ron Rosenbaum, p. 89). Sexual perversion is part of ritual
psychology. Ron Rosenbaum, author of the Esquire Magazine article, stated
that on initiation night, called tap night, "...if one could climb to the tower of
Weir Hall, the odd castle that overlooks the Bones courtyard, one could hear
strange cries and moans coming from the bowels of the tomb as the 15 newly
tapped members were put through what sounded like a harrowing ordeal..."
(Esquire, September, 1976, p. 86).

Further,[initiates] "lay naked in coffins and tell their deepest and darkest sexual
secrets as part of their initiation." (Esquire, p. 85). These experiences in the
coffins incorporated sexual pain and resulted in being born-again, into the Order,
as we mentioned above. (Cooper, p.95) Powerful force charges through the
participants of these ceremonies, transforming their lives dramatically. This type
ritual is classic Satanism. Anton LaVey states, in his book The Satanic Rituals:
Companion To The Satanic Bible, (p. 57)

"The ceremony of rebirth takes place in a large coffin..This is similar to the
coffin symbolism that...is found in most lodge rituals." Make no mistake about
it: Any organization which utilizes this coffin ritual to simulate rebirth is practising
Satanism, including Skull and Bones.
.......'
http://web.archive.org/web/200410120.../nwothule.html

'The program cover for the ceremony "Cremation of Care" depicts a skeleton,
a demon, and the huge owl illuminated by flames. A small white drawing above
the name of the director depicts a demon or devil with the initials PJ sweeping
something up with a witch's broom.

See exclusive video stills of the ceremony at the website:
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

Watch actual video clips of the ceremony at:
http://www.infowars.com/videos.html

Descriptions of the video clips are as follows:

Here you see the group of priests with torches, in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The high priest is rationalizing the fact that human sacrifice brings beauty
into the world.

Here you see the group of priests with torches in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The priest praises the owl-god and tells everyone to be reverend before him.

This clip shows the boatman in black-hooded garb journeying across the lake
to the owl god, Molak, with the human effigy (we hope) sacrifice. The boatman's
face was painted to resemble that of a skull. The priests on the right await their victim.

Watch and hear the screams as the simulated human sacrifice takes place to the
great owl of Babylon. Midsummer is the high holy point for luciferians and occultists
- hear the priest's words as he burns the effigy - "once again midsummer sets us free."
....
Ask any Native American elder. When Owl manifests in a stone form, it means a
lack of empathy. Shamans the world over manifest their power animals as living
beings, just as they are in nature, not as stone idols. . When people begin to see
their power animals as stone idols it means they have lost their empathy with the
four leggeds of the animal kingdom, and with the two leggeds, the humans.
It means they are pursuing self interest over service to others.
....'
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/newstart/bohemian-grove/

> >> and that
> >> Israelis should sit back and take all those

> >
> > DU armaments from the USA

>
> We should be sending them even more weapons than we are.


Of course you think that, you monster.

> >> Iranian-funded missiles from
> >> Hezbollah up their asses and forgive and forget about Shalit and anyone
> >> else Hamas and Hezbollah want to kidnap and kill.

> >
> > You'd like us to forget about the the murders in Gaza

>
> Which ones? The ones in retaliation for suicide bombings? I don't
> consider targeting buildings where explosive vests or rockets are being
> made to constitute murder.


Friday, 9 June 2006, 18:28 GMT 19:28 UK

Palestinians killed on Gaza beach

The shelling has caused outrage among Palestinians

Seven people, including three children, have been killed by Israeli shells
which hit a beach in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials say.

At least 30 people were wounded in the shelling, they say.

The Israeli military says it has halted all shelling of Gaza and has
launched an inquiry into whether ground-based artillery could have
been involved.

In a statement, the military wing of Hamas threatened to resume attacks
on Israel in the wake of "massacres".

The group has been observing a self-imposed ceasefire for more than a year.

Although there have been threats of a response to other attacks in recent
months, the BBC's Simon Wilson in Jerusalem says the move is significant
because it appears on the official website of the armed wing of the group.

There was no immediate word from the political wing of Hamas, which
dominates the government in the Palestinian Authority.

Four other people were also killed in separate Israeli air strike in northern
Gaza on Friday, Palestinians said.
....'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065008.stm

> > and the many thousands
> > of Palestinians rotting away in Israeli prisons - including women and children.

>
> You say "children," I say "juveniles." Why are they imprisoned or in
> camps? Because they've presented a danger to [you won't say "other
> children" so I'll say] Israeli soldiers or Israeli citizens (Arab
> Christians and Jews alike). Same for women who are known associates of
> terrorists.


'Former Israel Prime Minster, Yitzhak Rabin, said in an uncensored
version of his memoirs, published in the New York Times on 23 October
23rd, 1979:

'We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
question - What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion
waved his hand in a gesture which said "Drive them out!"'

And that's what they did.

The Arabs were driven out of power or consequence in their own land by
Zionist terrorist groups like Hagana, Irgun and the Stern Gang (also known
as Lehi) who bombed and assassinated Arabs, fellow Jews and the British
administrators who had control over Palestine under a mandate from the
League of Nations and the Versailles Peace Conference. 'Palestine' was
then the region we now call Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza Strip,
formerly belonging to the Ottoman Empire.

This Zionist terrorism led to the imposition of the Jewish state in 1948
when 750,000 or more Arabic people were expelled from their own land.
Among the major players in these and other terrorist operations were
Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, butchers who became
Israeli Prime Ministers and had the nerve to condemn Arab terrorism.
......
It is claimed that everything started with the kidnapping of the Israeli
soldiers, but we need to go back at least to June 9th when Israel shelled
a beach in Gaza killing eight Palestinians and injuring 32 civilians,
including 13 children. The dead included seven members of one family.
The Israeli government offered its 'deep regret', but this outrage was no
accident. It was part of the process of instigating a reaction so that
what has happened since could unfold.

On June 13th ,an Israeli plane fired at a vehicle on a busy Gaza road and
when civilians hurried to help the injured another missile was fired into
the crowd. Eleven Palestinians died, including two medical staff and two
children.

Come on, the Israeli government was saying - retaliate. We have the gun
clocked, we're ready to go, and we just need you to give us the excuse to
pull the trigger.

If Arab people had done the same they would have been called terrorists,
the pimps of the 'world community' would have been red-faced in their
condemnation, and Israel's American-funded military would have done
what have these past ten days.

The outrageous double-standards are just sickening. I saw some former
Israel military commander this week saying how terrible it was that Israeli
children had to be sitting in bomb shelters in Haifa when, as she spoke
those words, children were being killed by Israeli bombs in Lebanon.

But then Israeli Prime Minister and terrorist, Menachem Begin, told the
Israeli parliament that Palestinians 'are beasts walking on two legs' and
another Prime Minister and terrorist, Yitzhak Shamir, said in a speech to
Jewish settlers that the Palestinians 'would would be crushed like
grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls'. ('Begin
and the 'Beasts', New Statesman, June 25, 1982, and Yitzhak Shamir
quoted in the New York Times April 1st, 1988). That is what they really
think.
...
The creation of Israel was never an end in itself. It has always been a
means to an end. All along, the plan has been to target the Islamic world
to trigger a global war that would set the world ablaze and lead to the
'solution' of centralised control of the planet and all its peoples. To do
that they needed to create a point of conflict, a power keg, among the
Arab countries that could be exploded to start another global conflict.
This is the real reason for the creation of Israel and the real reason why
the United States has spent its billions building up Israel's might and
military.
...
This is the historical background, the falling dominoes, that have led to
what is happening today with hundreds of Lebanese killed, more than
half a million made refugees, and missiles killing and maiming Israelis
who are manipulated and programmed by their own sick government to
believe the Big Lie.

Of course, Arab terrorism is equally wrong. Violence just begets
violence, only peace begets peace. Every kidnapping, death and injury
is a personal and family tragedy and none is more or less important than
any other. The sight of the Hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah, calling
two Arab children in Israel killed by Hezbollah rockets 'martyrs for
Palestine' was gut-wrenching. There are idiots and terrorist fanatics on
both sides and I have no illusions about the suppression of freedom in
Syria or Iran either. It is a case of seeing the big picture in which the
monstrous game is being played out and putting the Arab response into
its historical context.
....
http://lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=6814

'As a result of their visible activity in the current Intifada, Palestinian
women have not escaped the mass arrest campaigns. Palestinian women
in detention are subjected to mistreatment on a daily basis and are often
held in cells and sections with Israeli criminal prisoners. Regular body
searches are performed with brutality by prison guards; sexual harassment
occurs frequently; the right to elect a representative for their collective
demands is not recognized as in other prisons; solitary confinement is
often used as a form of punishment; detainees are prohibited from going
outside regularly or of using the canteen; cell searches and confiscation
of personal belongings is a common practice; and attacks on women by
beating or firing tear gas into cells occur regularly.

At the end of 2004, there were over 120 Palestinian women being held by
Israeli authorities. The number has steadily increased over the years of
the Intifada making this the largest number of female detainees held by
Israel in two-decades. Female prisoners are placed in 2 central prisons,
Neve Tresta and Hasharon-Telmond.

17 of these women are mothers, two women, Mervat Taha and Manal
Ghanem, gave birth while in detention and Manal continues to live with
her child, Nour, inside the prison. Mervat was recently released with her
son, Wa'el, now 2 years old has lived his entire life inside the prison.
There are currently eight girls (under age 18) inside Israeli jails in
addition to a number of women who have turned 18 while they were
imprisoned. Israel detains children as young as 12 years old, in blatant
contravention of the internationally accepted designation of any individual
under the age of 18 as a child. Israeli military regulations stipulate that a
child is anyone under the age of 16, whilst Israeli law stipulates this age
to be under 18.

Many Palestinian women prisoners are transferred to Neve Tertza Prison,
one of six sections of Ramleh Prison after their interrogation process.
Here Palestinian female detainees remain detained within the same section
as Israeli criminal female prisoners accused of crimes such as murder,
theft, drug use, and prostitution. Mixing Palestinian prisoners with Israeli
criminal prisoners has created a great deal of tension within the prison,
particularly as political prisoners should be separated from other categories
of prisoners.

The prison administration continues to humiliate Palestinian female prisoners
by forcing them to strip in front of prison guards while their hands are cuffed,
and then to dress before these same guards. The administration conducts
regular searches of prison cells, confiscating personal property and papers.

The prison administration has diligently worked at breaking the unity of the
female detainees by isolating them from the outside world and preventing
family visits. Correspondence to and from the prison is also prohibited, and
newspapers are allowed in the prison but are delayed by a few days. Visits
amongst other prisoners are prevented and daily breaks have been reduced
to half an hour. Palestinian women prisoners at Neve Tertza Prison reported
that their conditions of detention were extremely difficult, with no glass
protecting windows in the cells and insects and vermin found throughout the
prison. Because of the prevention of family visits, prisoners do not have
adequate winter clothing or extra food to supplement the small food portions
they receive in prison.

Some Palestinian female prisoners have been arrested as a means of placing
pressure on their husbands. Asma' Abu el-Hayja, for example, who is 40
years old and is suffering from brain cancer, is being held in an administrative
detention in order to pressure her husband who is also under detention.
Mrs. Ablaa' Saadat was arrested on 21 January 2003 as she travelled as a
Palestinian representative to the World Social Forum in Brazil. Saadat is the
wife of the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine (PFLP). She was give four months administrative detention
following her arrest. She was told by an interrogator that her arrest was
merely a demonstration that 'they' can do whatever they want. She was also
told that if her husband had 'blood on his hands' they would kill her children.

http://www.addameer.org/detention/women.html

>>>>>> You have tried to defend and cover up the most
>>>>>> heinous crimes against humanity,

>
>>>>> Examples?

>
>>>> Mass murder through 'war'

>
>> >Where's your contempt for those who started it? Oh wait, you think the
>> >planes were flown by remote control and it just happened to have some
>> >fellows who'd trained in bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan;

> >
> >You wish to discuss 911? OK. Start by refuting this:
> >http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones#Critics


'In 1973, Jones earned his bachelors degree in physics, magna *** laude,
from Brigham Young University, and his PhD in physics from Vanderbilt
University in 1978. Jones conducted his PhD research at the Stanford Linear
Accelerator Center (from 1974 to 1977), and post-doctoral research at
Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility.

Research interests and background

Jones conducted research at the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
in Arco, Idaho, from 1979 to 1985, where he was a senior engineering
specialist. He was the principal investigator for experimental muon-catalyzed
fusion from 1982 to 1991 for the U.S. Department of Energy, Division of
Advanced Energy Projects. From 1990 to 1993, Jones researched fusion in
condensed matter and deuterium, for the U.S. Department of Energy and
for the Electric Power Research Institute.

Jones has also been a collaborator in several experiments, including
experiments at TRIUMF (Vancouver, British Columbia), The National
High Energy Laboratory, KEK (Tsukuba, Japan), and the Rutherford
Appleton Laboratory at Oxford University.

Jones specializes in Metal-catalyzed fusion, Archaeometry and Solar
energy [2].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

'Here are some of the kinds of considerations that these experts and
scholars find profoundly troubling:

* In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings
have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11,
so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

* The BBC has reported that at least five of the nineteen alleged "hijackers"
have turned up alive and well living in Saudi Arabia, yet according to the
FBI, they were among those killed in the attacks. How is this possible?

* Frank DeMartini, a project manager for the WTC, said the buildings
were designed with load redistribution capabilities to withstand the
impact of airliners, whose effects would be like "puncturing mosquito
netting with a pencil." Yet they completely collapsed. How is this possible?

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?
...
Their own physics research has established that only controlled
demolitions are consistent with the near-gravity speed of fall and virtually
symmetrical collapse of all three of the WTC buildings. While turning
concrete into very fine dust, they fell straight-down into their own footprints.
...'
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/P...30Jan2006.html

>> * Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F,


>> Answer the questions


> I'll address this one irrelevant point,


You'll address ALL of it, psychoid.

> for upon it your conspiracy theory house of cards crumbles.


Like three steel-frame high-rise buildings CRUMBLED?

> Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The temperature

for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design strengths
-- considering even the redundancies built in from sound engineering
practices, something which you're not qualified to discuss since you
flunked out of engineering school - ANOTHER LIE - is far below
2700°F. And fwiw, jet fuel can burn at temperatures higher than your
2700°F mark given the right circumstances (e.g., large volumes of
oxygen -- which was the case on 9/11 given the size of the holes
> made by the planes).


Huge gaping holes? No. Read again what you snipped, neo-con shill.

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?

Below, from the first link you posted, you fool. Didn't you read it? -

'THE FIRE

The fire is the most misunderstood part of the WTC collapse. Even today,
the media report (and many scientists believe) that the steel melted. It is
argued that the jet fuel burns very hot, especially with so much fuel present.
This is not true.

Part of the problem is that people (including engineers) often confuse
temperature and heat. While they are related, they are not the same.
Thermodynamically, the heat contained in a material is related to the
temperature through the heat capacity and the density (or mass).
Temperature is defined as an intensive property, meaning that it does
not vary with the quantity of material, while the heat is an extensive
property, which does vary with the amount of material. One way to
distinguish the two is to note that if a second log is added to the
fireplace, the temperature does not double; it stays roughly the same,
but the size of the fire or the length of time the fire burns, or a
combination of the two, doubles. Thus, the fact that there were
90,000 L of jet fuel on a few floors of the WTC does not mean that
this was an unusually hot fire. The temperature of the fire at the WTC
was not unusual, and it was most definitely not capable of melting steel.
...
In a diffuse flame, the fuel and the oxidant are not mixed before ignition,
but flow together in an uncontrolled manner and combust when the
fuel/oxidant ratios reach values within the flammable range. A fireplace
flame is a diffuse flame burning in air, as was the WTC fire.

Diffuse flames generate the lowest heat intensities of the three flame types.

If the fuel and the oxidant start at ambient temperature, a maximum flame
temperature can be defined. For carbon burning in pure oxygen, the
maximum is 3,200°C; for hydrogen it is 2,750°C. Thus, for virtually any
hydrocarbons, the maximum flame temperature, starting at ambient
temperature and using pure oxygen, is approximately 3,000°C.

This maximum flame temperature is reduced by two-thirds if air is used
rather than pure oxygen. The reason is that every molecule of oxygen
releases the heat of formation of a molecule of carbon monoxide and a
molecule of water. If pure oxygen is used, this heat only needs to heat
two molecules (carbon monoxide and water), while with air, these two
molecules must be heated plus four molecules of nitrogen. Thus, burning
hydrocarbons in air produces only one-third the temperature increase as
burning in pure oxygen because three times as many molecules must be
heated when air is used. The maximum flame temperature increase for
burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1,000°C-hardly
sufficient to melt steel at 1,500°C.

But it is very difficult to reach this maximum temperature with a diffuse
flame. There is nothing to ensure that the fuel and air in a diffuse flame
are mixed in the best ratio. Typically, diffuse flames are fuel rich, meaning
that the excess fuel molecules, which are unburned, must also be heated.
It is known that most diffuse fires are fuel rich because blowing on a
campfire or using a blacksmith's bellows increases the rate of combustion
by adding more oxygen. This fuel-rich diffuse flame can drop the
temperature by up to a factor of two again. This is why the temperatures
in a residential fire are usually in the 500°C to 650°C range.2,3 It is known
that the WTC fire was a fuel-rich, diffuse flame as evidenced by the
copious black smoke. Soot is generated by incompletely burned fuel;
hence, the WTC fire was fuel rich-hardly surprising with 90,000 L of
jet fuel available. Factors such as flame volume and quantity of soot
decrease the radiative heat loss in the fire, moving the temperature closer
to the maximum of 1,000°C. However, it is highly unlikely that the steel
at the WTC experienced temperatures above the 750-800°C range. All
reports that the steel melted at 1,500°C are using imprecise terminology
at best.
...
It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses
about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in
this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient,
by itself, to explain the WTC collapse. It was noted above that the wind
load controlled the design allowables. The WTC, on this low-wind day,
was likely not stressed more than a third of the design allowable, which
is roughly one-fifth of the yield strength of the steel. Even with its strength
halved, the steel could still support two to three times the stresses imposed
by a 650°C fire.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html

> <...>
> > It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses
> > about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in
> > this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient,
> > by itself, to explain the WTC collapse.

>
> Yes, it is. Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The
> temperature for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design
> strengths -- considering even the redundancies built in from sound
> engineering practices,


The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do that?

Try again, dumbass, and address ALL of it this time. I'll keep posting
it until you do, or you get the hell out of here. Either way is fine by me.







pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 01:48 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> >>>You miserable f*ck.
> >>
> >>I love you, too, Lesley.

> >
> > I don't love you. Get over it.

>
> I know it won't break your beautiful heart, but I think I already am.


Took you all of 18 minutes? Must be a record even for you, dick.



chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 01:50 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 
pearl wrote:

>>Yes, it is. Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The
>>temperature for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design
>>strengths -- considering even the redundancies built in from sound
>>engineering practices, , something which you're not qualified to discuss
>>since you flunked out of engineering school -- is far below 2700°F. And
>>fwiw, jet fuel can burn at temperatures higher than your 2700°F mark
>>given the right circumstances (e.g., large volumes of oxygen -- which
>>was the case on 9/11 given the size of the holes made by the planes).


http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html
http://www.keytosteel.com/default.as...Article&NM=102
http://www.key-to-steel.com/default....kArticle&NM=59
http://tinyurl.com/enmw2
Etc.

Do you look good in your little tinfoil hat?

> The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
> into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do that?


http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/lin....html&edu=high

Glorfindel 10-08-2006 02:00 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
chico chupacabra wrote:

<snip>

> I disagree with your self-identification as an expert in the field of
> animal behavior.


Glorfindel wrote:

Tough. You're wrong.

<snip>

>>know that some animals are
>>imprinted on humans as their preferred mate.


> Imprinting isn't the same as conditioning, and vice versa.


I didn't say it was. In fact, I specifically contrasted
the two in an earlier post in this thread.

<snip>

> Then why did you let that bird have sex with/on you?


Because he wanted to, and it harmed neither of us.

<snip>

>>Rupert and
>>I both believe ( if he will excuse me for speaking for him )
>>that if there is no objective evidence of *harm* the same
>>criteria should be extended to human/animal sexual activity
>>as to all other human/animal interaction.


> Human. Animal. Sex.


> What more "obective" evidence do you need?


That harm has resulted. You've provided no objective
evidence it does in the case of animals focused on humans
as preferred mates.

<snip>

>>and I believe that, all else being equal, as long as no *harm*
>>results, the animal's preference should be respected in this,



> You do NOT know an animal's preference. You're making an assumption
> based on its behavioral patterns


Which is the only way we can know anything about an animal's
preferences. How would you determine something was not a
preference except by the animal's behavior?

> which, all things considered, is most
> likely the product of some kind of conditioning -- NOT imprinting.


Which would make it no less a preference.

<snip>

>>Some animals don't
>>want a mate of their own species,


> Ipse dixit and unproven assertion


Neither

>based on your assumption that animals
> are rational beings that make conscious decisions. They aren't.


Ipse dixit. According to you, they don't anticipate either.

<snip>

>>We may think it is better for a human to get out, mingle
>>with other humans, find a human partner.


<snip>

>>But some humans
>>just want to curl up on the couch or go out hiking with their
>>companion dog or cat.


> This isn't about curling up on couches or going for hikes.


My example is. A preference for the company of another
species is not only about sex; it is about who one wants
to spend time with and interact with in all ways. There
are a lot of people who prefer animals to other humans
as companions. Zoophiles just take it a step further.

<snip>

>>I think we need to respect such
>>personal preferences.


> ANIMALS DON'T MAKE PERSONAL PREFERENCES ON THE SAME LEVEL AS HUMANS.


They make them on the level of animals.

<snip>

>>As long as no *harm* is being done
>>to another, we have no right to tell another human, OR another
>>non-human, how to live his/her life, or who to live it with.


> Yes, we do.


Why? That is illogical and immoral.

<snip>

>> > But
>>>if it's someone who freely consumes animal products, she starts out
>>>with animus against her.


>>No kidding. So do I. It's not difficult to see the objective harm
>>involved there.


> There's no objective harm in eating meat;


But there is in killing animals to produce meat, especially
if they live in inhumane and unjust conditions before
slaughter as well. If you condone such activity, you have
no understanding of morality, and no credibility.

> it's a natural human activity
> and it's a natural part of the human diet.


That does not make it right or wrong in itself.

It helped us develop
> cognitively.... What's not
> natural is for one species to engage in sexual relations with another
> species.


Ipse dixit. It happens in nature with or without human intervention,
as I noted at the beginning of this thread. The existence of
hybrid animals from closely related species ( wolf/dog. coydog/ mule,
tiger/lion cross, some avian hybrids ) disproves your claim, as do
many examples of animals imprinted on other species ( human or
non-human) who refuse to breed with attractive and available members of
their own species, while making mating gestures toward members of
other species,

<snip>

chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 02:20 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
pearl wrote:

>>>>>You miserable f*ck.
>>>>
>>>>I love you, too, Lesley.
>>>
>>>I don't love you. Get over it.

>>
>>I know it won't break your beautiful heart, but I think I already am.

>
> Took you all of 18 minutes?


Didn't realize it mattered enough for you to time it.

> Must be a record even for you


No, I was in love with a girl for just under twelve minutes when I was
13 or 14. Then I met her friend, and fell in love with her for a couple
weeks. I prefer long-term relationships like that.

chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 02:25 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
Karen Winter, animal molestor and child abandoner, wrote:

> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> I disagree with your self-identification as an expert in the field of
>> animal behavior.

>
>
> Karen Winter, animal molestor and child abandoner, wrote:
>
> Tough. You're wrong.


Ipse dixit. You're not an animal behavior expert.

chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 02:35 PM

NEW ADDITION TO LESLEY'S LIST
 
pearl wrote:

> The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
> into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do that?


new entry added:

*disagrees with the law of gravity*
"zero point field" (GUFFAW!)
"veganism"
"inner earth beings"
"hollow earth"
that goofy patent for a MANUFACTURED globe
helium-inflated number(s) for feed:beef
rain forest destruction
Brazil's exports (based on *Argentina's* trade)
Stolen French flying saucer
Zapper
Foot massage (as cure-all)
Astrology
Numerology
Alien abduction
bestiality
Leprechauns
Channeling
Polar fountains
Sun gazing
Chemtrails
AIDS and ebola conspiracy theory
Crop circles
sexually aroused by violent ex-convicts
participation in skinhead subculture
the validity of online IQ tests
crackpot 9-11 conspiracy theories
Jeff Rense for "news"
long-debunked legends about "ageless wonders"

archived evidence of the above:
http://tinyurl.com/h0br
http://tinyurl.com/h0bl
http://tinyurl.com/v5p8
http://tinyurl.com/v5pf
http://tinyurl.com/mh5w
http://tinyurl.com/mh6h
http://tinyurl.com/mh6r
http://tinyurl.com/mh71
http://tinyurl.com/mh7a
http://tinyurl.com/mh7j
http://tinyurl.com/mh7p
http://tinyurl.com/v5jj
http://tinyurl.com/v5kd
http://tinyurl.com/v5l6
http://tinyurl.com/v5ft
http://tinyurl.com/v5fj
http://tinyurl.com/v5fp
http://tinyurl.com/v5ft
http://tinyurl.com/v5ga
http://tinyurl.com/v5gc
http://tinyurl.com/v5i2
http://tinyurl.com/v5gk
http://tinyurl.com/v5h1
http://tinyurl.com/v5h9
http://tinyurl.com/n9r59

pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 03:36 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:


> >>>>>>>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
> >>>>>>>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
> >>>>>>>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
> >>>>>>>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
> >>>>>>>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> >>>>>>>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
> >>>>>>>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
> >>>>>>>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>><...>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Here you see the group of priests with torches...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>It's silly pageantry, that's all.
> >>>>
> >>>>Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the questions.
> >>>
> >>>I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for WASPs.
> >>
> >>The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where they mock
> >>the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.
> >>
> >>
> >>>No, it isn't.
> >>
> >>Yes, it is.

> >
> >
> > No, it isn't.

>
> Yes, it is.


Nope.

> > Your boy shrub is a member of a Satanic cult that meets at B-G.

>
> He's a member of Tarrytown United Methodist.


He's a member of Skull and Bones. Are you?

> > In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world had now
> > entered into a New World Order.

>
> Why the capital letters? And what do you find so grievous about the
> following from that speech (not announcement)?


<snip empty blah>

> And with respect to the phrase, it's been part of our nation for some
> time. Albeit in Latin: "Novus Ordo Seclorum" is printed on our currency.


Yes, we are aware of that.

'The German Brotherhood of Death Society is the Thule Society. Adolf Hitler
joined this society in 1919, becoming an adept under the leadership of Dietrich
Eckhart. Later, the Thule Society selected Hitler to be their leader of the New
World Order, as Eckhart revealed on his deathbed, saying, "Follow Hitler; he
will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I have initiated him into the
Secret Doctrine, opened his centers in vision, and given him the means to
communicate with the powers." (Trevor Ravenscroft, The Spear Of Destiny,
p. 91).'

> > Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
> > American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society.

>
> Non sequitur.


You wish.

'Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society. As we stated
earlier, Bush's New World Order is virtually identical with Hitler's; the key
connecting point is the common membership in their respective Brotherhood ..
(Behold A Pale Horse, p. 81; Introduction To The Order, p.7).

We will study this connection in depth today. Let us begin with a quick overview
of the Thule Society, beginning with a study of its practices and relevant history.

* They were Satanists who practiced Black Magic -- this means that they were
"solely concerned with raising their consciousness by means of rituals to
awareness of evil and nonhuman intelligences in the universe; and with achieving
means of communication with these intelligences." (Ravenscroft, p. 161).
Concentrate on that seemingly innocent word, rituals. Christians equate a ritual
to a church service, thereby not understanding its occultic meaning. The New
Age Dictionary defines ritual as a "ceremony to restore balance with nature...
and bring back lost harmony and sacredness." Remember we are dealing with
the Satanic world, where good is called evil and evil good. The sacredness
mentioned here is a Satanic sacredness. Rituals literally are proscribed activities
designed to allow demonic power to flow through the participants. These
activities are proscribed chants, formula wordings, and carefully planned actions.
As we noted last week, the effect is devastatingly powerful, as demonic force
pours through the participants, delivering a counterfeit spiritual experience
which literally transforms their lives. Never skip over the word ritual, as it is a
word of Satanic power.

* Thule members practiced a form of Sexual Magic derived from a lodge of
which Aleister Crowley was a member. Crowley was recognized as the foremost
worshipper of Satan in the 19th Century. "The origin of this...medieval magic...
can be traced to a Freemason, Robert Little, who founded the Societas
Rosicruciana in 1865... (Ravenscroft, Spear of Destiny, p. 164-5). While the
actual sexual perversions which were practiced are too offensive to share, the
results are not. Author Revenscroft stated that "indulgence in the most sadistic
rituals awakened penetrating vision into the workings of Evil Intelligences and
bestowed phenomenal magical powers." (Ibid. p. 167). This is the Thule Society.

Ravenscroft records its effect upon Hitler, "...sexual perversion took a central
place in [Hitler's] life...a monstrous sexual perversion was the very core of his
whole existence, the source of his mediumistic and clairvoyant powers, and the
motivation behind every act through which he reaped a sadistic vengeance on
humanity." (Ibid., p. 171).

Eckart's final act was to initiate Hitler into "a monstrous sadistic magic ritual...
after which he was sexually impotent. Hitler's impotency had a deep
psychological foundation. He knew sexual fulfillment through the extremes of
sadism and masochism... "(Ravenscroft, p. 155, 173). This impotency delivered
a final devastating blow to Hitler's psychological foundation, finally making him
into the sadistic murderer that history knows.
....
As Rosenbaum continued his research, he found definite links between Bones
and the Bavarian Illuminists. The Bavarian Illuminists were part of the original
Masters of the Illuminati. First, Rosenbaum discovered documents which detailed
the origins of Bones back to Germany. These documents stated, "Bones is a
chapter of a corps of a German University..." The document described at length
its relationship with this German Secret Society (the Thule Society) which lead
to the founding of the Skull and Bones in 1832.
......
The Skull and Bones also incorporates sexual activities into their practices.
"The death of the initiate will be as frightful as the use of human skeletons and
ritual psychology can make it..." (Esquire Magazine, "The Last Secrets of
Skull and Bones", Ron Rosenbaum, p. 89). Sexual perversion is part of ritual
psychology. Ron Rosenbaum, author of the Esquire Magazine article, stated
that on initiation night, called tap night, "...if one could climb to the tower of
Weir Hall, the odd castle that overlooks the Bones courtyard, one could hear
strange cries and moans coming from the bowels of the tomb as the 15 newly
tapped members were put through what sounded like a harrowing ordeal..."
(Esquire, September, 1976, p. 86).

Further,[initiates] "lay naked in coffins and tell their deepest and darkest sexual
secrets as part of their initiation." (Esquire, p. 85). These experiences in the
coffins incorporated sexual pain and resulted in being born-again, into the Order,
as we mentioned above. (Cooper, p.95) Powerful force charges through the
participants of these ceremonies, transforming their lives dramatically. This type
ritual is classic Satanism. Anton LaVey states, in his book The Satanic Rituals:
Companion To The Satanic Bible, (p. 57)

"The ceremony of rebirth takes place in a large coffin..This is similar to the
coffin symbolism that...is found in most lodge rituals." Make no mistake about
it: Any organization which utilizes this coffin ritual to simulate rebirth is practising
Satanism, including Skull and Bones.
.......'
http://web.archive.org/web/200410120.../nwothule.html

'The program cover for the ceremony "Cremation of Care" depicts a skeleton,
a demon, and the huge owl illuminated by flames. A small white drawing above
the name of the director depicts a demon or devil with the initials PJ sweeping
something up with a witch's broom.

See exclusive video stills of the ceremony at the website:
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

Watch actual video clips of the ceremony at:
http://www.infowars.com/videos.html

Descriptions of the video clips are as follows:

Here you see the group of priests with torches, in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The high priest is rationalizing the fact that human sacrifice brings beauty
into the world.

Here you see the group of priests with torches in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The priest praises the owl-god and tells everyone to be reverend before him.

This clip shows the boatman in black-hooded garb journeying across the lake
to the owl god, Molak, with the human effigy (we hope) sacrifice. The boatman's
face was painted to resemble that of a skull. The priests on the right await their victim.

Watch and hear the screams as the simulated human sacrifice takes place to the
great owl of Babylon. Midsummer is the high holy point for luciferians and occultists
- hear the priest's words as he burns the effigy - "once again midsummer sets us free."
....
Ask any Native American elder. When Owl manifests in a stone form, it means a
lack of empathy. Shamans the world over manifest their power animals as living
beings, just as they are in nature, not as stone idols. . When people begin to see
their power animals as stone idols it means they have lost their empathy with the
four leggeds of the animal kingdom, and with the two leggeds, the humans.
It means they are pursuing self interest over service to others.
....'
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/newstart/bohemian-grove/

> >> and that
> >> Israelis should sit back and take all those

> >
> > DU armaments from the USA

>
> We should be sending them even more weapons than we are.


Of course you think that, you monster.

> >> Iranian-funded missiles from
> >> Hezbollah up their asses and forgive and forget about Shalit and anyone
> >> else Hamas and Hezbollah want to kidnap and kill.

> >
> > You'd like us to forget about the the murders in Gaza

>
> Which ones? The ones in retaliation for suicide bombings? I don't
> consider targeting buildings where explosive vests or rockets are being
> made to constitute murder.


Friday, 9 June 2006, 18:28 GMT 19:28 UK

Palestinians killed on Gaza beach

The shelling has caused outrage among Palestinians

Seven people, including three children, have been killed by Israeli shells
which hit a beach in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials say.

At least 30 people were wounded in the shelling, they say.

The Israeli military says it has halted all shelling of Gaza and has
launched an inquiry into whether ground-based artillery could have
been involved.

In a statement, the military wing of Hamas threatened to resume attacks
on Israel in the wake of "massacres".

The group has been observing a self-imposed ceasefire for more than a year.

Although there have been threats of a response to other attacks in recent
months, the BBC's Simon Wilson in Jerusalem says the move is significant
because it appears on the official website of the armed wing of the group.

There was no immediate word from the political wing of Hamas, which
dominates the government in the Palestinian Authority.

Four other people were also killed in separate Israeli air strike in northern
Gaza on Friday, Palestinians said.
....'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065008.stm

> > and the many thousands
> > of Palestinians rotting away in Israeli prisons - including women and children.

>
> You say "children," I say "juveniles." Why are they imprisoned or in
> camps? Because they've presented a danger to [you won't say "other
> children" so I'll say] Israeli soldiers or Israeli citizens (Arab
> Christians and Jews alike). Same for women who are known associates of
> terrorists.


'Former Israel Prime Minster, Yitzhak Rabin, said in an uncensored
version of his memoirs, published in the New York Times on 23 October
23rd, 1979:

'We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
question - What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion
waved his hand in a gesture which said "Drive them out!"'

And that's what they did.

The Arabs were driven out of power or consequence in their own land by
Zionist terrorist groups like Hagana, Irgun and the Stern Gang (also known
as Lehi) who bombed and assassinated Arabs, fellow Jews and the British
administrators who had control over Palestine under a mandate from the
League of Nations and the Versailles Peace Conference. 'Palestine' was
then the region we now call Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza Strip,
formerly belonging to the Ottoman Empire.

This Zionist terrorism led to the imposition of the Jewish state in 1948
when 750,000 or more Arabic people were expelled from their own land.
Among the major players in these and other terrorist operations were
Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, butchers who became
Israeli Prime Ministers and had the nerve to condemn Arab terrorism.
......
It is claimed that everything started with the kidnapping of the Israeli
soldiers, but we need to go back at least to June 9th when Israel shelled
a beach in Gaza killing eight Palestinians and injuring 32 civilians,
including 13 children. The dead included seven members of one family.
The Israeli government offered its 'deep regret', but this outrage was no
accident. It was part of the process of instigating a reaction so that
what has happened since could unfold.

On June 13th ,an Israeli plane fired at a vehicle on a busy Gaza road and
when civilians hurried to help the injured another missile was fired into
the crowd. Eleven Palestinians died, including two medical staff and two
children.

Come on, the Israeli government was saying - retaliate. We have the gun
clocked, we're ready to go, and we just need you to give us the excuse to
pull the trigger.

If Arab people had done the same they would have been called terrorists,
the pimps of the 'world community' would have been red-faced in their
condemnation, and Israel's American-funded military would have done
what have these past ten days.

The outrageous double-standards are just sickening. I saw some former
Israel military commander this week saying how terrible it was that Israeli
children had to be sitting in bomb shelters in Haifa when, as she spoke
those words, children were being killed by Israeli bombs in Lebanon.

But then Israeli Prime Minister and terrorist, Menachem Begin, told the
Israeli parliament that Palestinians 'are beasts walking on two legs' and
another Prime Minister and terrorist, Yitzhak Shamir, said in a speech to
Jewish settlers that the Palestinians 'would would be crushed like
grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls'. ('Begin
and the 'Beasts', New Statesman, June 25, 1982, and Yitzhak Shamir
quoted in the New York Times April 1st, 1988). That is what they really
think.
...
The creation of Israel was never an end in itself. It has always been a
means to an end. All along, the plan has been to target the Islamic world
to trigger a global war that would set the world ablaze and lead to the
'solution' of centralised control of the planet and all its peoples. To do
that they needed to create a point of conflict, a power keg, among the
Arab countries that could be exploded to start another global conflict.
This is the real reason for the creation of Israel and the real reason why
the United States has spent its billions building up Israel's might and
military.
...
This is the historical background, the falling dominoes, that have led to
what is happening today with hundreds of Lebanese killed, more than
half a million made refugees, and missiles killing and maiming Israelis
who are manipulated and programmed by their own sick government to
believe the Big Lie.

Of course, Arab terrorism is equally wrong. Violence just begets
violence, only peace begets peace. Every kidnapping, death and injury
is a personal and family tragedy and none is more or less important than
any other. The sight of the Hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah, calling
two Arab children in Israel killed by Hezbollah rockets 'martyrs for
Palestine' was gut-wrenching. There are idiots and terrorist fanatics on
both sides and I have no illusions about the suppression of freedom in
Syria or Iran either. It is a case of seeing the big picture in which the
monstrous game is being played out and putting the Arab response into
its historical context.
....
http://lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=6814

'As a result of their visible activity in the current Intifada, Palestinian
women have not escaped the mass arrest campaigns. Palestinian women
in detention are subjected to mistreatment on a daily basis and are often
held in cells and sections with Israeli criminal prisoners. Regular body
searches are performed with brutality by prison guards; sexual harassment
occurs frequently; the right to elect a representative for their collective
demands is not recognized as in other prisons; solitary confinement is
often used as a form of punishment; detainees are prohibited from going
outside regularly or of using the canteen; cell searches and confiscation
of personal belongings is a common practice; and attacks on women by
beating or firing tear gas into cells occur regularly.

At the end of 2004, there were over 120 Palestinian women being held by
Israeli authorities. The number has steadily increased over the years of
the Intifada making this the largest number of female detainees held by
Israel in two-decades. Female prisoners are placed in 2 central prisons,
Neve Tresta and Hasharon-Telmond.

17 of these women are mothers, two women, Mervat Taha and Manal
Ghanem, gave birth while in detention and Manal continues to live with
her child, Nour, inside the prison. Mervat was recently released with her
son, Wa'el, now 2 years old has lived his entire life inside the prison.
There are currently eight girls (under age 18) inside Israeli jails in
addition to a number of women who have turned 18 while they were
imprisoned. Israel detains children as young as 12 years old, in blatant
contravention of the internationally accepted designation of any individual
under the age of 18 as a child. Israeli military regulations stipulate that a
child is anyone under the age of 16, whilst Israeli law stipulates this age
to be under 18.

Many Palestinian women prisoners are transferred to Neve Tertza Prison,
one of six sections of Ramleh Prison after their interrogation process.
Here Palestinian female detainees remain detained within the same section
as Israeli criminal female prisoners accused of crimes such as murder,
theft, drug use, and prostitution. Mixing Palestinian prisoners with Israeli
criminal prisoners has created a great deal of tension within the prison,
particularly as political prisoners should be separated from other categories
of prisoners.

The prison administration continues to humiliate Palestinian female prisoners
by forcing them to strip in front of prison guards while their hands are cuffed,
and then to dress before these same guards. The administration conducts
regular searches of prison cells, confiscating personal property and papers.

The prison administration has diligently worked at breaking the unity of the
female detainees by isolating them from the outside world and preventing
family visits. Correspondence to and from the prison is also prohibited, and
newspapers are allowed in the prison but are delayed by a few days. Visits
amongst other prisoners are prevented and daily breaks have been reduced
to half an hour. Palestinian women prisoners at Neve Tertza Prison reported
that their conditions of detention were extremely difficult, with no glass
protecting windows in the cells and insects and vermin found throughout the
prison. Because of the prevention of family visits, prisoners do not have
adequate winter clothing or extra food to supplement the small food portions
they receive in prison.

Some Palestinian female prisoners have been arrested as a means of placing
pressure on their husbands. Asma' Abu el-Hayja, for example, who is 40
years old and is suffering from brain cancer, is being held in an administrative
detention in order to pressure her husband who is also under detention.
Mrs. Ablaa' Saadat was arrested on 21 January 2003 as she travelled as a
Palestinian representative to the World Social Forum in Brazil. Saadat is the
wife of the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine (PFLP). She was give four months administrative detention
following her arrest. She was told by an interrogator that her arrest was
merely a demonstration that 'they' can do whatever they want. She was also
told that if her husband had 'blood on his hands' they would kill her children.

http://www.addameer.org/detention/women.html

>>>>>> You have tried to defend and cover up the most
>>>>>> heinous crimes against humanity,

>
>>>>> Examples?

>
>>>> Mass murder through 'war'

>
>> >Where's your contempt for those who started it? Oh wait, you think the
>> >planes were flown by remote control and it just happened to have some
>> >fellows who'd trained in bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan;

> >
> >You wish to discuss 911? OK. Start by refuting this:
> >http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones#Critics


'In 1973, Jones earned his bachelors degree in physics, magna *** laude,
from Brigham Young University, and his PhD in physics from Vanderbilt
University in 1978. Jones conducted his PhD research at the Stanford Linear
Accelerator Center (from 1974 to 1977), and post-doctoral research at
Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility.

Research interests and background

Jones conducted research at the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
in Arco, Idaho, from 1979 to 1985, where he was a senior engineering
specialist. He was the principal investigator for experimental muon-catalyzed
fusion from 1982 to 1991 for the U.S. Department of Energy, Division of
Advanced Energy Projects. From 1990 to 1993, Jones researched fusion in
condensed matter and deuterium, for the U.S. Department of Energy and
for the Electric Power Research Institute.

Jones has also been a collaborator in several experiments, including
experiments at TRIUMF (Vancouver, British Columbia), The National
High Energy Laboratory, KEK (Tsukuba, Japan), and the Rutherford
Appleton Laboratory at Oxford University.

Jones specializes in Metal-catalyzed fusion, Archaeometry and Solar
energy [2].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

'Here are some of the kinds of considerations that these experts and
scholars find profoundly troubling:

* In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings
have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11,
so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

* The BBC has reported that at least five of the nineteen alleged "hijackers"
have turned up alive and well living in Saudi Arabia, yet according to the
FBI, they were among those killed in the attacks. How is this possible?

* Frank DeMartini, a project manager for the WTC, said the buildings
were designed with load redistribution capabilities to withstand the
impact of airliners, whose effects would be like "puncturing mosquito
netting with a pencil." Yet they completely collapsed. How is this possible?

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?
...
Their own physics research has established that only controlled
demolitions are consistent with the near-gravity speed of fall and virtually
symmetrical collapse of all three of the WTC buildings. While turning
concrete into very fine dust, they fell straight-down into their own footprints.
...'
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/P...30Jan2006.html

>> * Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F,


>> Answer the questions


> I'll address this one irrelevant point,


You'll address ALL of it, psychoid.

> for upon it your conspiracy theory house of cards crumbles.


Like three steel-frame high-rise buildings CRUMBLED?

> Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The temperature

for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design strengths
-- considering even the redundancies built in from sound engineering
practices, something which you're not qualified to discuss since you
flunked out of engineering school - ANOTHER LIE - is far below
2700°F. And fwiw, jet fuel can burn at temperatures higher than your
2700°F mark given the right circumstances (e.g., large volumes of
oxygen -- which was the case on 9/11 given the size of the holes
> made by the planes).


Huge gaping holes? No. Read again what you snipped, neo-con shill.

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?

Below, from the first link you posted, you fool. Didn't you read it? -

'THE FIRE

The fire is the most misunderstood part of the WTC collapse. Even today,
the media report (and many scientists believe) that the steel melted. It is
argued that the jet fuel burns very hot, especially with so much fuel present.
This is not true.

Part of the problem is that people (including engineers) often confuse
temperature and heat. While they are related, they are not the same.
Thermodynamically, the heat contained in a material is related to the
temperature through the heat capacity and the density (or mass).
Temperature is defined as an intensive property, meaning that it does
not vary with the quantity of material, while the heat is an extensive
property, which does vary with the amount of material. One way to
distinguish the two is to note that if a second log is added to the
fireplace, the temperature does not double; it stays roughly the same,
but the size of the fire or the length of time the fire burns, or a
combination of the two, doubles. Thus, the fact that there were
90,000 L of jet fuel on a few floors of the WTC does not mean that
this was an unusually hot fire. The temperature of the fire at the WTC
was not unusual, and it was most definitely not capable of melting steel.
...
In a diffuse flame, the fuel and the oxidant are not mixed before ignition,
but flow together in an uncontrolled manner and combust when the
fuel/oxidant ratios reach values within the flammable range. A fireplace
flame is a diffuse flame burning in air, as was the WTC fire.

Diffuse flames generate the lowest heat intensities of the three flame types.

If the fuel and the oxidant start at ambient temperature, a maximum flame
temperature can be defined. For carbon burning in pure oxygen, the
maximum is 3,200°C; for hydrogen it is 2,750°C. Thus, for virtually any
hydrocarbons, the maximum flame temperature, starting at ambient
temperature and using pure oxygen, is approximately 3,000°C.

This maximum flame temperature is reduced by two-thirds if air is used
rather than pure oxygen. The reason is that every molecule of oxygen
releases the heat of formation of a molecule of carbon monoxide and a
molecule of water. If pure oxygen is used, this heat only needs to heat
two molecules (carbon monoxide and water), while with air, these two
molecules must be heated plus four molecules of nitrogen. Thus, burning
hydrocarbons in air produces only one-third the temperature increase as
burning in pure oxygen because three times as many molecules must be
heated when air is used. The maximum flame temperature increase for
burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1,000°C-hardly
sufficient to melt steel at 1,500°C.

But it is very difficult to reach this maximum temperature with a diffuse
flame. There is nothing to ensure that the fuel and air in a diffuse flame
are mixed in the best ratio. Typically, diffuse flames are fuel rich, meaning
that the excess fuel molecules, which are unburned, must also be heated.
It is known that most diffuse fires are fuel rich because blowing on a
campfire or using a blacksmith's bellows increases the rate of combustion
by adding more oxygen. This fuel-rich diffuse flame can drop the
temperature by up to a factor of two again. This is why the temperatures
in a residential fire are usually in the 500°C to 650°C range.2,3 It is known
that the WTC fire was a fuel-rich, diffuse flame as evidenced by the
copious black smoke. Soot is generated by incompletely burned fuel;
hence, the WTC fire was fuel rich-hardly surprising with 90,000 L of
jet fuel available. Factors such as flame volume and quantity of soot
decrease the radiative heat loss in the fire, moving the temperature closer
to the maximum of 1,000°C. However, it is highly unlikely that the steel
at the WTC experienced temperatures above the 750-800°C range. All
reports that the steel melted at 1,500°C are using imprecise terminology
at best.
...
It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses
about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in
this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient,
by itself, to explain the WTC collapse. It was noted above that the wind
load controlled the design allowables. The WTC, on this low-wind day,
was likely not stressed more than a third of the design allowable, which
is roughly one-fifth of the yield strength of the steel. Even with its strength
halved, the steel could still support two to three times the stresses imposed
by a 650°C fire.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html

> <...>
> > It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses
> > about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in
> > this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient,
> > by itself, to explain the WTC collapse.

>
> Yes, it is. Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The
> temperature for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design
> strengths -- considering even the redundancies built in from sound
> engineering practices,


The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do that?

Try again, dumbass, and address ALL of it this time. I'll keep posting
it until you do, or you get the hell out of here. Either way is fine by me.






pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 03:37 PM

NEW ADDITION TO CHUMPO'S INSANITY
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> > The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
> > into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do that?


Answer the question, dipshit.



pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 03:37 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> >>>>>You miserable f*ck.
> >>>>
> >>>>I love you, too, Lesley.
> >>>
> >>>I don't love you. Get over it.
> >>
> >>I know it won't break your beautiful heart, but I think I already am.

> >
> > Took you all of 18 minutes?

>
> Didn't realize it mattered enough for you to time it.


It doesn't and I didn't.

> > Must be a record even for you

>
> No, I was in love with a girl for just under twelve minutes when I was
> 13 or 14. Then I met her friend, and fell in love with her for a couple
> weeks. I prefer long-term relationships like that.


Uhuh.



chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 04:12 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 
pearl wrote:

> > >>>>>>>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted
> > >>>>>>>>there, you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a
> > >>>>>>>>member too?
> > >>>>>>>
> > >>>>>>>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing
> > >>>>>>>to do with Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a
> > >>>>>>>frat=house reunion, where people do silly things they would
> > >>>>>>>never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts, not anything
> > >>>>>>>untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> > >>>>>>>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the
> > >>>>>>>world behind. I find all the conspiracy theories about it
> > >>>>>>>quite amusing, nevermind the fact that Alex has turned it
> > >>>>>>>into a cottage industry.
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>><...>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>>Here you see the group of priests with torches...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>It's silly pageantry, that's all.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the
> > >>>>questions.
> > >>>
> > >>>I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for
> > >>>WASPs.
> > >>
> > >>The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where
> > >>they mock the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>No, it isn't.
> > >>
> > >>Yes, it is.
> > >
> > >
> > > No, it isn't.

> >
> > Yes, it is.

>
> Nope.


Yes, it is. It's a totally meaningless dress-up pageant intended to
mock the worries of daily life.

> > > Your President Bush is a member of

> >
> > He's a member of Tarrytown United Methodist.

>
> He's a member of Skull and Bones. Are you?


I didn't attend Yale. That's a requirement for membership.

> > > In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world
> > > had now entered into a New World Order.

> >
> > Why the capital letters? And what do you find so grievous about the
> > following from that speech (not announcement)?


Aside from the words "new world order," what do you find objectionable
about the speech?

> The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
> into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do that?


Gravity. It's the law, dummy.

chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 04:18 PM

NEW ADDITION TO LESLEY'S INSANITY
 
pearl wrote:

> > > The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
> > > into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do
> > > that?


Gravity. It's the law.
http://tinyurl.com/fttvl

new entry added:

*disagrees with the law of gravity*
"zero point field" (GUFFAW!)
"veganism"
"inner earth beings"
"hollow earth"
that goofy patent for a MANUFACTURED globe
helium-inflated number(s) for feed:beef
rain forest destruction
Brazil's exports (based on *Argentina's* trade)
Stolen French flying saucer
Zapper
Foot massage (as cure-all)
Astrology
Numerology
Alien abduction
bestiality
Leprechauns
Channeling
Polar fountains
Sun gazing
Chemtrails
AIDS and ebola conspiracy theory
Crop circles
sexually aroused by violent ex-convicts
participation in skinhead subculture
the validity of online IQ tests
crackpot 9-11 conspiracy theories
Jeff Rense for "news"
long-debunked legends about "ageless wonders"

archived evidence of the above:
http://tinyurl.com/h0br
http://tinyurl.com/h0bl
http://tinyurl.com/v5p8
http://tinyurl.com/v5pf
http://tinyurl.com/mh5w
http://tinyurl.com/mh6h
http://tinyurl.com/mh6r
http://tinyurl.com/mh71
http://tinyurl.com/mh7a
http://tinyurl.com/mh7j
http://tinyurl.com/mh7p
http://tinyurl.com/v5jj
http://tinyurl.com/v5kd
http://tinyurl.com/v5l6
http://tinyurl.com/v5ft
http://tinyurl.com/v5fj
http://tinyurl.com/v5fp
http://tinyurl.com/v5ft
http://tinyurl.com/v5ga
http://tinyurl.com/v5gc
http://tinyurl.com/v5i2
http://tinyurl.com/v5gk
http://tinyurl.com/v5h1
http://tinyurl.com/v5h9
http://tinyurl.com/n9r59

pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 04:18 PM

NEW ADDITION TO CHUMPO'S INSANITY
 
"pearl" > wrote in message ...
> "chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> > pearl wrote:
> >
> > > The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
> > > into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do that?

>
> Answer the question, dipshit.


And before you say "gravity" again, you are completely ignoring this:

'The WTC, on this low-wind day, was likely not stressed more than
a third of the design allowable, which is roughly one-fifth of the yield
strength of the steel. Even with its strength halved, the steel could still
support two to three times the stresses imposed by a 650°C fire.'
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html

That's from one of your own links, dummy.

Around 3,000 Americans were murdered that day, and many now
ill due to inhaling the highly toxic dust of the collapse. Hundreds of
thousands of Iraqis and Afghan citizens have been killed or injured
- their lives and countries destroyed, - not forgetting the numerous
non-human casualties of your war OF terror; and all on this on the
basis of the BELIEF - there is NO supporting evidence - that it was
masterminded by an Arab sitting in a cave somewhere, and carried
out by people who were incompetent at flying even small aircraft.

And you think this is a joke, '?! Why won't
you address the material in an intellectually-honest manner? Eh?





pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 04:19 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:


> >>>>>>>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
> >>>>>>>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
> >>>>>>>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
> >>>>>>>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
> >>>>>>>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> >>>>>>>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
> >>>>>>>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
> >>>>>>>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>><...>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Here you see the group of priests with torches...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>It's silly pageantry, that's all.
> >>>>
> >>>>Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the questions.
> >>>
> >>>I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for WASPs.
> >>
> >>The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where they mock
> >>the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.
> >>
> >>
> >>>No, it isn't.
> >>
> >>Yes, it is.

> >
> >
> > No, it isn't.

>
> Yes, it is.


Nope.

> > Your boy shrub is a member of a Satanic cult that meets at B-G.

>
> He's a member of Tarrytown United Methodist.


He's a member of Skull and Bones. Are you?

> > In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world had now
> > entered into a New World Order.

>
> Why the capital letters? And what do you find so grievous about the
> following from that speech (not announcement)?


<snip empty blah>

> And with respect to the phrase, it's been part of our nation for some
> time. Albeit in Latin: "Novus Ordo Seclorum" is printed on our currency.


Yes, we are aware of that.

'The German Brotherhood of Death Society is the Thule Society. Adolf Hitler
joined this society in 1919, becoming an adept under the leadership of Dietrich
Eckhart. Later, the Thule Society selected Hitler to be their leader of the New
World Order, as Eckhart revealed on his deathbed, saying, "Follow Hitler; he
will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I have initiated him into the
Secret Doctrine, opened his centers in vision, and given him the means to
communicate with the powers." (Trevor Ravenscroft, The Spear Of Destiny,
p. 91).'

> > Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
> > American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society.

>
> Non sequitur.


You wish.

'Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society. As we stated
earlier, Bush's New World Order is virtually identical with Hitler's; the key
connecting point is the common membership in their respective Brotherhood ..
(Behold A Pale Horse, p. 81; Introduction To The Order, p.7).

We will study this connection in depth today. Let us begin with a quick overview
of the Thule Society, beginning with a study of its practices and relevant history.

* They were Satanists who practiced Black Magic -- this means that they were
"solely concerned with raising their consciousness by means of rituals to
awareness of evil and nonhuman intelligences in the universe; and with achieving
means of communication with these intelligences." (Ravenscroft, p. 161).
Concentrate on that seemingly innocent word, rituals. Christians equate a ritual
to a church service, thereby not understanding its occultic meaning. The New
Age Dictionary defines ritual as a "ceremony to restore balance with nature...
and bring back lost harmony and sacredness." Remember we are dealing with
the Satanic world, where good is called evil and evil good. The sacredness
mentioned here is a Satanic sacredness. Rituals literally are proscribed activities
designed to allow demonic power to flow through the participants. These
activities are proscribed chants, formula wordings, and carefully planned actions.
As we noted last week, the effect is devastatingly powerful, as demonic force
pours through the participants, delivering a counterfeit spiritual experience
which literally transforms their lives. Never skip over the word ritual, as it is a
word of Satanic power.

* Thule members practiced a form of Sexual Magic derived from a lodge of
which Aleister Crowley was a member. Crowley was recognized as the foremost
worshipper of Satan in the 19th Century. "The origin of this...medieval magic...
can be traced to a Freemason, Robert Little, who founded the Societas
Rosicruciana in 1865... (Ravenscroft, Spear of Destiny, p. 164-5). While the
actual sexual perversions which were practiced are too offensive to share, the
results are not. Author Revenscroft stated that "indulgence in the most sadistic
rituals awakened penetrating vision into the workings of Evil Intelligences and
bestowed phenomenal magical powers." (Ibid. p. 167). This is the Thule Society.

Ravenscroft records its effect upon Hitler, "...sexual perversion took a central
place in [Hitler's] life...a monstrous sexual perversion was the very core of his
whole existence, the source of his mediumistic and clairvoyant powers, and the
motivation behind every act through which he reaped a sadistic vengeance on
humanity." (Ibid., p. 171).

Eckart's final act was to initiate Hitler into "a monstrous sadistic magic ritual...
after which he was sexually impotent. Hitler's impotency had a deep
psychological foundation. He knew sexual fulfillment through the extremes of
sadism and masochism... "(Ravenscroft, p. 155, 173). This impotency delivered
a final devastating blow to Hitler's psychological foundation, finally making him
into the sadistic murderer that history knows.
....
As Rosenbaum continued his research, he found definite links between Bones
and the Bavarian Illuminists. The Bavarian Illuminists were part of the original
Masters of the Illuminati. First, Rosenbaum discovered documents which detailed
the origins of Bones back to Germany. These documents stated, "Bones is a
chapter of a corps of a German University..." The document described at length
its relationship with this German Secret Society (the Thule Society) which lead
to the founding of the Skull and Bones in 1832.
......
The Skull and Bones also incorporates sexual activities into their practices.
"The death of the initiate will be as frightful as the use of human skeletons and
ritual psychology can make it..." (Esquire Magazine, "The Last Secrets of
Skull and Bones", Ron Rosenbaum, p. 89). Sexual perversion is part of ritual
psychology. Ron Rosenbaum, author of the Esquire Magazine article, stated
that on initiation night, called tap night, "...if one could climb to the tower of
Weir Hall, the odd castle that overlooks the Bones courtyard, one could hear
strange cries and moans coming from the bowels of the tomb as the 15 newly
tapped members were put through what sounded like a harrowing ordeal..."
(Esquire, September, 1976, p. 86).

Further,[initiates] "lay naked in coffins and tell their deepest and darkest sexual
secrets as part of their initiation." (Esquire, p. 85). These experiences in the
coffins incorporated sexual pain and resulted in being born-again, into the Order,
as we mentioned above. (Cooper, p.95) Powerful force charges through the
participants of these ceremonies, transforming their lives dramatically. This type
ritual is classic Satanism. Anton LaVey states, in his book The Satanic Rituals:
Companion To The Satanic Bible, (p. 57)

"The ceremony of rebirth takes place in a large coffin..This is similar to the
coffin symbolism that...is found in most lodge rituals." Make no mistake about
it: Any organization which utilizes this coffin ritual to simulate rebirth is practising
Satanism, including Skull and Bones.
.......'
http://web.archive.org/web/200410120.../nwothule.html

'The program cover for the ceremony "Cremation of Care" depicts a skeleton,
a demon, and the huge owl illuminated by flames. A small white drawing above
the name of the director depicts a demon or devil with the initials PJ sweeping
something up with a witch's broom.

See exclusive video stills of the ceremony at the website:
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

Watch actual video clips of the ceremony at:
http://www.infowars.com/videos.html

Descriptions of the video clips are as follows:

Here you see the group of priests with torches, in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The high priest is rationalizing the fact that human sacrifice brings beauty
into the world.

Here you see the group of priests with torches in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The priest praises the owl-god and tells everyone to be reverend before him.

This clip shows the boatman in black-hooded garb journeying across the lake
to the owl god, Molak, with the human effigy (we hope) sacrifice. The boatman's
face was painted to resemble that of a skull. The priests on the right await their victim.

Watch and hear the screams as the simulated human sacrifice takes place to the
great owl of Babylon. Midsummer is the high holy point for luciferians and occultists
- hear the priest's words as he burns the effigy - "once again midsummer sets us free."
....
Ask any Native American elder. When Owl manifests in a stone form, it means a
lack of empathy. Shamans the world over manifest their power animals as living
beings, just as they are in nature, not as stone idols. . When people begin to see
their power animals as stone idols it means they have lost their empathy with the
four leggeds of the animal kingdom, and with the two leggeds, the humans.
It means they are pursuing self interest over service to others.
....'
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/newstart/bohemian-grove/

> >> and that
> >> Israelis should sit back and take all those

> >
> > DU armaments from the USA

>
> We should be sending them even more weapons than we are.


Of course you think that, you monster.

> >> Iranian-funded missiles from
> >> Hezbollah up their asses and forgive and forget about Shalit and anyone
> >> else Hamas and Hezbollah want to kidnap and kill.

> >
> > You'd like us to forget about the the murders in Gaza

>
> Which ones? The ones in retaliation for suicide bombings? I don't
> consider targeting buildings where explosive vests or rockets are being
> made to constitute murder.


Friday, 9 June 2006, 18:28 GMT 19:28 UK

Palestinians killed on Gaza beach

The shelling has caused outrage among Palestinians

Seven people, including three children, have been killed by Israeli shells
which hit a beach in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials say.

At least 30 people were wounded in the shelling, they say.

The Israeli military says it has halted all shelling of Gaza and has
launched an inquiry into whether ground-based artillery could have
been involved.

In a statement, the military wing of Hamas threatened to resume attacks
on Israel in the wake of "massacres".

The group has been observing a self-imposed ceasefire for more than a year.

Although there have been threats of a response to other attacks in recent
months, the BBC's Simon Wilson in Jerusalem says the move is significant
because it appears on the official website of the armed wing of the group.

There was no immediate word from the political wing of Hamas, which
dominates the government in the Palestinian Authority.

Four other people were also killed in separate Israeli air strike in northern
Gaza on Friday, Palestinians said.
....'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065008.stm

> > and the many thousands
> > of Palestinians rotting away in Israeli prisons - including women and children.

>
> You say "children," I say "juveniles." Why are they imprisoned or in
> camps? Because they've presented a danger to [you won't say "other
> children" so I'll say] Israeli soldiers or Israeli citizens (Arab
> Christians and Jews alike). Same for women who are known associates of
> terrorists.


'Former Israel Prime Minster, Yitzhak Rabin, said in an uncensored
version of his memoirs, published in the New York Times on 23 October
23rd, 1979:

'We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
question - What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion
waved his hand in a gesture which said "Drive them out!"'

And that's what they did.

The Arabs were driven out of power or consequence in their own land by
Zionist terrorist groups like Hagana, Irgun and the Stern Gang (also known
as Lehi) who bombed and assassinated Arabs, fellow Jews and the British
administrators who had control over Palestine under a mandate from the
League of Nations and the Versailles Peace Conference. 'Palestine' was
then the region we now call Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza Strip,
formerly belonging to the Ottoman Empire.

This Zionist terrorism led to the imposition of the Jewish state in 1948
when 750,000 or more Arabic people were expelled from their own land.
Among the major players in these and other terrorist operations were
Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, butchers who became
Israeli Prime Ministers and had the nerve to condemn Arab terrorism.
......
It is claimed that everything started with the kidnapping of the Israeli
soldiers, but we need to go back at least to June 9th when Israel shelled
a beach in Gaza killing eight Palestinians and injuring 32 civilians,
including 13 children. The dead included seven members of one family.
The Israeli government offered its 'deep regret', but this outrage was no
accident. It was part of the process of instigating a reaction so that
what has happened since could unfold.

On June 13th ,an Israeli plane fired at a vehicle on a busy Gaza road and
when civilians hurried to help the injured another missile was fired into
the crowd. Eleven Palestinians died, including two medical staff and two
children.

Come on, the Israeli government was saying - retaliate. We have the gun
clocked, we're ready to go, and we just need you to give us the excuse to
pull the trigger.

If Arab people had done the same they would have been called terrorists,
the pimps of the 'world community' would have been red-faced in their
condemnation, and Israel's American-funded military would have done
what have these past ten days.

The outrageous double-standards are just sickening. I saw some former
Israel military commander this week saying how terrible it was that Israeli
children had to be sitting in bomb shelters in Haifa when, as she spoke
those words, children were being killed by Israeli bombs in Lebanon.

But then Israeli Prime Minister and terrorist, Menachem Begin, told the
Israeli parliament that Palestinians 'are beasts walking on two legs' and
another Prime Minister and terrorist, Yitzhak Shamir, said in a speech to
Jewish settlers that the Palestinians 'would would be crushed like
grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls'. ('Begin
and the 'Beasts', New Statesman, June 25, 1982, and Yitzhak Shamir
quoted in the New York Times April 1st, 1988). That is what they really
think.
...
The creation of Israel was never an end in itself. It has always been a
means to an end. All along, the plan has been to target the Islamic world
to trigger a global war that would set the world ablaze and lead to the
'solution' of centralised control of the planet and all its peoples. To do
that they needed to create a point of conflict, a power keg, among the
Arab countries that could be exploded to start another global conflict.
This is the real reason for the creation of Israel and the real reason why
the United States has spent its billions building up Israel's might and
military.
...
This is the historical background, the falling dominoes, that have led to
what is happening today with hundreds of Lebanese killed, more than
half a million made refugees, and missiles killing and maiming Israelis
who are manipulated and programmed by their own sick government to
believe the Big Lie.

Of course, Arab terrorism is equally wrong. Violence just begets
violence, only peace begets peace. Every kidnapping, death and injury
is a personal and family tragedy and none is more or less important than
any other. The sight of the Hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah, calling
two Arab children in Israel killed by Hezbollah rockets 'martyrs for
Palestine' was gut-wrenching. There are idiots and terrorist fanatics on
both sides and I have no illusions about the suppression of freedom in
Syria or Iran either. It is a case of seeing the big picture in which the
monstrous game is being played out and putting the Arab response into
its historical context.
....
http://lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=6814

'As a result of their visible activity in the current Intifada, Palestinian
women have not escaped the mass arrest campaigns. Palestinian women
in detention are subjected to mistreatment on a daily basis and are often
held in cells and sections with Israeli criminal prisoners. Regular body
searches are performed with brutality by prison guards; sexual harassment
occurs frequently; the right to elect a representative for their collective
demands is not recognized as in other prisons; solitary confinement is
often used as a form of punishment; detainees are prohibited from going
outside regularly or of using the canteen; cell searches and confiscation
of personal belongings is a common practice; and attacks on women by
beating or firing tear gas into cells occur regularly.

At the end of 2004, there were over 120 Palestinian women being held by
Israeli authorities. The number has steadily increased over the years of
the Intifada making this the largest number of female detainees held by
Israel in two-decades. Female prisoners are placed in 2 central prisons,
Neve Tresta and Hasharon-Telmond.

17 of these women are mothers, two women, Mervat Taha and Manal
Ghanem, gave birth while in detention and Manal continues to live with
her child, Nour, inside the prison. Mervat was recently released with her
son, Wa'el, now 2 years old has lived his entire life inside the prison.
There are currently eight girls (under age 18) inside Israeli jails in
addition to a number of women who have turned 18 while they were
imprisoned. Israel detains children as young as 12 years old, in blatant
contravention of the internationally accepted designation of any individual
under the age of 18 as a child. Israeli military regulations stipulate that a
child is anyone under the age of 16, whilst Israeli law stipulates this age
to be under 18.

Many Palestinian women prisoners are transferred to Neve Tertza Prison,
one of six sections of Ramleh Prison after their interrogation process.
Here Palestinian female detainees remain detained within the same section
as Israeli criminal female prisoners accused of crimes such as murder,
theft, drug use, and prostitution. Mixing Palestinian prisoners with Israeli
criminal prisoners has created a great deal of tension within the prison,
particularly as political prisoners should be separated from other categories
of prisoners.

The prison administration continues to humiliate Palestinian female prisoners
by forcing them to strip in front of prison guards while their hands are cuffed,
and then to dress before these same guards. The administration conducts
regular searches of prison cells, confiscating personal property and papers.

The prison administration has diligently worked at breaking the unity of the
female detainees by isolating them from the outside world and preventing
family visits. Correspondence to and from the prison is also prohibited, and
newspapers are allowed in the prison but are delayed by a few days. Visits
amongst other prisoners are prevented and daily breaks have been reduced
to half an hour. Palestinian women prisoners at Neve Tertza Prison reported
that their conditions of detention were extremely difficult, with no glass
protecting windows in the cells and insects and vermin found throughout the
prison. Because of the prevention of family visits, prisoners do not have
adequate winter clothing or extra food to supplement the small food portions
they receive in prison.

Some Palestinian female prisoners have been arrested as a means of placing
pressure on their husbands. Asma' Abu el-Hayja, for example, who is 40
years old and is suffering from brain cancer, is being held in an administrative
detention in order to pressure her husband who is also under detention.
Mrs. Ablaa' Saadat was arrested on 21 January 2003 as she travelled as a
Palestinian representative to the World Social Forum in Brazil. Saadat is the
wife of the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine (PFLP). She was give four months administrative detention
following her arrest. She was told by an interrogator that her arrest was
merely a demonstration that 'they' can do whatever they want. She was also
told that if her husband had 'blood on his hands' they would kill her children.

http://www.addameer.org/detention/women.html

>>>>>> You have tried to defend and cover up the most
>>>>>> heinous crimes against humanity,

>
>>>>> Examples?

>
>>>> Mass murder through 'war'

>
>> >Where's your contempt for those who started it? Oh wait, you think the
>> >planes were flown by remote control and it just happened to have some
>> >fellows who'd trained in bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan;

> >
> >You wish to discuss 911? OK. Start by refuting this:
> >http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones#Critics


'In 1973, Jones earned his bachelors degree in physics, magna *** laude,
from Brigham Young University, and his PhD in physics from Vanderbilt
University in 1978. Jones conducted his PhD research at the Stanford Linear
Accelerator Center (from 1974 to 1977), and post-doctoral research at
Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility.

Research interests and background

Jones conducted research at the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
in Arco, Idaho, from 1979 to 1985, where he was a senior engineering
specialist. He was the principal investigator for experimental muon-catalyzed
fusion from 1982 to 1991 for the U.S. Department of Energy, Division of
Advanced Energy Projects. From 1990 to 1993, Jones researched fusion in
condensed matter and deuterium, for the U.S. Department of Energy and
for the Electric Power Research Institute.

Jones has also been a collaborator in several experiments, including
experiments at TRIUMF (Vancouver, British Columbia), The National
High Energy Laboratory, KEK (Tsukuba, Japan), and the Rutherford
Appleton Laboratory at Oxford University.

Jones specializes in Metal-catalyzed fusion, Archaeometry and Solar
energy [2].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

'Here are some of the kinds of considerations that these experts and
scholars find profoundly troubling:

* In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings
have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11,
so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

* The BBC has reported that at least five of the nineteen alleged "hijackers"
have turned up alive and well living in Saudi Arabia, yet according to the
FBI, they were among those killed in the attacks. How is this possible?

* Frank DeMartini, a project manager for the WTC, said the buildings
were designed with load redistribution capabilities to withstand the
impact of airliners, whose effects would be like "puncturing mosquito
netting with a pencil." Yet they completely collapsed. How is this possible?

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?
...
Their own physics research has established that only controlled
demolitions are consistent with the near-gravity speed of fall and virtually
symmetrical collapse of all three of the WTC buildings. While turning
concrete into very fine dust, they fell straight-down into their own footprints.
...'
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/P...30Jan2006.html

>> * Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F,


>> Answer the questions


> I'll address this one irrelevant point,


You'll address ALL of it, psychoid.

> for upon it your conspiracy theory house of cards crumbles.


Like three steel-frame high-rise buildings CRUMBLED?

> Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The temperature

for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design strengths
-- considering even the redundancies built in from sound engineering
practices, something which you're not qualified to discuss since you
flunked out of engineering school - ANOTHER LIE - is far below
2700°F. And fwiw, jet fuel can burn at temperatures higher than your
2700°F mark given the right circumstances (e.g., large volumes of
oxygen -- which was the case on 9/11 given the size of the holes
> made by the planes).


Huge gaping holes? No. Read again what you snipped, neo-con shill.

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?

Below, from the first link you posted, you fool. Didn't you read it? -

'THE FIRE

The fire is the most misunderstood part of the WTC collapse. Even today,
the media report (and many scientists believe) that the steel melted. It is
argued that the jet fuel burns very hot, especially with so much fuel present.
This is not true.

Part of the problem is that people (including engineers) often confuse
temperature and heat. While they are related, they are not the same.
Thermodynamically, the heat contained in a material is related to the
temperature through the heat capacity and the density (or mass).
Temperature is defined as an intensive property, meaning that it does
not vary with the quantity of material, while the heat is an extensive
property, which does vary with the amount of material. One way to
distinguish the two is to note that if a second log is added to the
fireplace, the temperature does not double; it stays roughly the same,
but the size of the fire or the length of time the fire burns, or a
combination of the two, doubles. Thus, the fact that there were
90,000 L of jet fuel on a few floors of the WTC does not mean that
this was an unusually hot fire. The temperature of the fire at the WTC
was not unusual, and it was most definitely not capable of melting steel.
...
In a diffuse flame, the fuel and the oxidant are not mixed before ignition,
but flow together in an uncontrolled manner and combust when the
fuel/oxidant ratios reach values within the flammable range. A fireplace
flame is a diffuse flame burning in air, as was the WTC fire.

Diffuse flames generate the lowest heat intensities of the three flame types.

If the fuel and the oxidant start at ambient temperature, a maximum flame
temperature can be defined. For carbon burning in pure oxygen, the
maximum is 3,200°C; for hydrogen it is 2,750°C. Thus, for virtually any
hydrocarbons, the maximum flame temperature, starting at ambient
temperature and using pure oxygen, is approximately 3,000°C.

This maximum flame temperature is reduced by two-thirds if air is used
rather than pure oxygen. The reason is that every molecule of oxygen
releases the heat of formation of a molecule of carbon monoxide and a
molecule of water. If pure oxygen is used, this heat only needs to heat
two molecules (carbon monoxide and water), while with air, these two
molecules must be heated plus four molecules of nitrogen. Thus, burning
hydrocarbons in air produces only one-third the temperature increase as
burning in pure oxygen because three times as many molecules must be
heated when air is used. The maximum flame temperature increase for
burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1,000°C-hardly
sufficient to melt steel at 1,500°C.

But it is very difficult to reach this maximum temperature with a diffuse
flame. There is nothing to ensure that the fuel and air in a diffuse flame
are mixed in the best ratio. Typically, diffuse flames are fuel rich, meaning
that the excess fuel molecules, which are unburned, must also be heated.
It is known that most diffuse fires are fuel rich because blowing on a
campfire or using a blacksmith's bellows increases the rate of combustion
by adding more oxygen. This fuel-rich diffuse flame can drop the
temperature by up to a factor of two again. This is why the temperatures
in a residential fire are usually in the 500°C to 650°C range.2,3 It is known
that the WTC fire was a fuel-rich, diffuse flame as evidenced by the
copious black smoke. Soot is generated by incompletely burned fuel;
hence, the WTC fire was fuel rich-hardly surprising with 90,000 L of
jet fuel available. Factors such as flame volume and quantity of soot
decrease the radiative heat loss in the fire, moving the temperature closer
to the maximum of 1,000°C. However, it is highly unlikely that the steel
at the WTC experienced temperatures above the 750-800°C range. All
reports that the steel melted at 1,500°C are using imprecise terminology
at best.
...
It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses
about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in
this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient,
by itself, to explain the WTC collapse. It was noted above that the wind
load controlled the design allowables. The WTC, on this low-wind day,
was likely not stressed more than a third of the design allowable, which
is roughly one-fifth of the yield strength of the steel. Even with its strength
halved, the steel could still support two to three times the stresses imposed
by a 650°C fire.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html

> <...>
> > It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses
> > about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in
> > this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient,
> > by itself, to explain the WTC collapse.

>
> Yes, it is. Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The
> temperature for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design
> strengths -- considering even the redundancies built in from sound
> engineering practices,


The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do that?

Try again, dumbass, and address ALL of it this time. I'll keep posting
it until you do, or you get the hell out of here. Either way is fine by me.





pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 04:27 PM

NEW ADDITION TO LESLEY'S INSANITY
 
"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> > > > The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
> > > > into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do
> > > > that?

>
> Gravity. It's the law.
> http://tinyurl.com/fttvl


I knew it.

'The WTC, on this low-wind day, was likely not stressed more than
a third of the design allowable, which is roughly one-fifth of the yield
strength of the steel. Even with its strength halved, the steel could still
support two to three times the stresses imposed by a 650°C fire.'
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html

That's from one of your own links, dummy. Try again, filth.





pearl[_1_] 10-08-2006 04:28 PM

NEW ADDITION TO 'chico'S INSANITY
 
Gotta correct the Subject line..

"pearl" > wrote in message ...
> "chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> > pearl wrote:
> >
> > > > > The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
> > > > > into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do
> > > > > that?

> >
> > Gravity. It's the law.
> > http://tinyurl.com/fttvl

>
> I knew it.
>
> 'The WTC, on this low-wind day, was likely not stressed more than
> a third of the design allowable, which is roughly one-fifth of the yield
> strength of the steel. Even with its strength halved, the steel could still
> support two to three times the stresses imposed by a 650°C fire.'
> http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html
>
> That's from one of your own links, dummy. Try again, filth.




chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 04:46 PM

NEW ADDITION TO LESLEY'S LIST
 
pearl wrote:

> > > > The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
> > > > into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL do
> > > > that?

> >
> > Answer the question, dipshit.

>
> And before you say "gravity" again,


It's why things fall straight down, Lesley.

http://wtc.nist.gov/oct05NCSTAR1-2index.htm
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...buildings.html
http://space.com/scienceastronomy/ge...ce_010919.html
http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/new...apse/frame.htm

Etc.

chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 04:47 PM

NEW ADDITION TO LESLEY'S INSANITY
 
"pearl" > wrote:

> "chico chupacabra" > wrote in message
> ...
> > pearl wrote:
> >
> > > > > The buildings COMPLETELY COLLAPSED in VIRTUAL FREE FALL
> > > > > into their own footprint. How does weakened / softened STEEL
> > > > > do that?

> >
> > Gravity. It's the law.
> > http://tinyurl.com/fttvl

>
> I knew it.


Apparently you don't know it because you continue to reject the law of
gravity. It's why things fall straight down, Lesley.

http://wtc.nist.gov/oct05NCSTAR1-2index.htm
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...buildings.html
http://space.com/scienceastronomy/ge...ce_010919.html
http://www.usatoday.com/graphics/new...apse/frame.htm

Etc.

chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 04:49 PM

NEW ADDITION TO LESLEY'S INSANITY
 
pearl wrote:

> Gotta correct the Subject line..


It's your entire lack of substance and your infamiliarity with science
and engineering that needs correction, sweetheart, not your subject
lines.

chico chupacabra 10-08-2006 05:12 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 
pearl wrote:

While you're foaming at the mouth about everything, what's your take on
the latest foiled plot? Were those 21 nabbed in the bust members of
Skull and Bones and the New World Order? What about Mohammad Atta and
his fellow goons? Did they attend fraternity parties at Yale?

You're such a dipshit.

Scented Nectar 10-08-2006 05:12 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 

Dutch wrote:
> "Scented Nectar" > wrote
> >
> > Dutch wrote:
> >> "Scented Nectar" > wrote
> >> >
> >> > Dutch wrote:
> >> >> "Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
> >> > ...
> >> >> > He might escalate and do something like rape the animal, thinking it
> >> >> > likes it too (dogs can't say yes or no).
> >> >>
> >> >> Rape is a violent act, there is no supportable reason to believe that
> >> >> he
> >> >> would harm his dog.
> >> >
> >> > I hope not.
> >>
> >> You'd be crazy to **** off an animal with large teeth who has your dick
> >> in
> >> its mouth.

> >
> > He would be crazy, but he still could abuse the animal in ways less
> > risky.

>
> He could do a lot of things, so could you, but you have no evidence that he
> would.


The fact that he feels ok about tricking the dog into sex indicates to
me a dangerous mentality, although I agree that he won't necessarily
take it further than his blowjobs. Does he ever have sex with humans?
I hope he washes it first.

> >> >> > A mindset that sexualizes
> >> >> > animals is on very shaky grounds.
> >> >>
> >> >> You're presuming something that doesn't necessarily follow, I'm
> >> >> surprised
> >> >> a
> >> >> *** person would do this. There is a stereotype among straight people
> >> >> that
> >> >> all gays have tendencies towards pedophilia. This is also an
> >> >> unsupported
> >> >> conclusion. I agree that one must be weird to do what he did, but it
> >> >> doesn't
> >> >> make it necessarily immoral except in a social context. Just because
> >> >> something seems icky does not make it immoral.
> >> >
> >> > You're presuming I'm ***.
> >>
> >> I thought you said you were, anyway the point is the same.

> >
> > Nope. I am bisexual. Normally I wouldn't mention it here, but since I
> > have mentioned it on other sites, it could probably be googled.

>
> You've mentioned it, I don't really care.
>
> >> > I presume that most people, *** or straight,
> >> > would not think too highly of what that friend of your's is doing.
> >>
> >> I agree, but not because he's harming the dog. I found it to be sick, in
> >> a
> >> funny way, like the love affairs between farmers and their sheep...

> >
> > Farmers who rape sheep are worse than your friend on the morality scale
> > in my opinion.

>
> Violence/rape by definition causes harm, where is the harm in ****ing a
> sheep?


The sheep don't just allow themselves to be ****ed. If they weren't
restrained and had a choice I'm sure that they would not let the farmer
**** them.

> > Your friend tricked the dog into blowing him, which is
> > less wrong than raping a sheep. Both are pretty ****ed up and sick
> > though.

>
> "Sicko" and wrong due to the infliction of harm are not the same thing.


No, but it's an indicator of potential further abuse.

> >> >> > I would recommend to anyone has that
> >> >> > mindset, that they try to refocus their libidoes on something safe,
> >> >> > like those Furries or Plushies people or whatever they're called.
> >> >> > They're weird, but nonharmful. They dress up as animals and have
> >> >> > sex
> >> >> > with each other. Some have sex with stuffed animals, I think. One
> >> >> > of
> >> >> > the weirdest fetishes I've heard of, but morally they are completely
> >> >> > ok
> >> >> > as they harm no one.
> >> >>
> >> >> As far as I know his dog was never harmed at all. Licking his master's
> >> >> dick
> >> >> meant he got whatever yummy treat was smeared on it, I doubt if it had
> >> >> any
> >> >> more significance than that to the animal.
> >> >
> >> > It's still wrong, just like it would be wrong if he were to smear his
> >> > dick with candy and invite children to lick it off. I see it as
> >> > comparable.
> >>
> >> It's not comparable AT ALL, children have a basic human sexual identity
> >> from
> >> a very young age, and sexual interaction with adults is well-known to
> >> cause
> >> severe psychological trauma and loss of self-esteem. A high proportion of
> >> teen drug addicts, prostitutes and sexual dysfunction can be traced back
> >> to
> >> early sexual interference from adults. I am describing the HARM caused by
> >> adult-on-child sex, NONE of this applies to animals. Sex with animals is
> >> just sicko, it shows poor taste, perhaps poor character on the part of
> >> the
> >> person doing it, but it's not immoral in the same way that HARMFUL sex
> >> with
> >> children is.

> >
> > It is comparable if you consider the equivelant in children.

>
> There is no equivalent in children, they are completely different issues.
> Your confusion here is probably related to your silly anthropomorphic ideas
> about animals.


I don't see the difference. Both involve taking sexual advantage.

> > A young
> > enough child wouldn't know that licking candy in that situation is
> > getting the pedafreak off. Yet, even though the child is not harmed,
> > it is very much wrong on the part of the adult.

>
> You're mistaken, any child old enough to interact with an adult is capable
> of being emotionally and psychologically scarred by it.


Possibly the same holds true for animals. We just don't know.


Scented Nectar 10-08-2006 05:16 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 

cheeky upchuck wrote:
> You're the grown woman with a "dream" of one day getting five acres and a pickup truck but lacking the ambition and means to acquire any of it -- beyond hoping that you get "lucky" and win a lottery.


A lottery would be necessary to do it right now, but when I retire I'll
be able to do it without a lottery. Did I ever mention a pickup truck?

> > Please prove all of these conclusively.

>
> Feel free to review the archives for threads in which your lack of ambition was fully discussed and established.


You mean where your ACCUSATIONS were fully discussed. This was not
established. You merely made those comments in an attempt to insult
me. Don't you see how transparent you are?


Scented Nectar 10-08-2006 05:19 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 

cheeky upchuck wrote:
> Skanky wrote:
>
> >>>> How long has it been since you gave some guy booty so you could
> >>>> score some weed?
> >>>
> >>> Yesterday. Twice.
> >>
> >> Figures.

> >
> > Yeah, it figures

>
> Still, it's the most ambition you've shown in all your 46 years. Twice is double the effort (and cooze) you usually put out.


Are you ever a miserable sucker! And you get your facts wrong
frequently. I am not 46, and have never traded sex for weed. Try
using FACTS when you reply, not just your whiney insults.


Scented Nectar 10-08-2006 05:26 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 

cheeky upchuck wrote:
> > > Thanks for sharing your little anecdotes about your cat humping your
> > > hand and cankles. TMI.

> >
> > I have never had a cat do that to me. Care to try again?

>
> Why are you so defensive about it?


I'm not. I'm merely correcting your lies (or fantasies?).

> Especially with your endometriosis and smeggy vaginitis.


Why am I getting the feeling you have vaginaphobia? Hahah. Care to
back up your insults with cites?

> > You just don't like gays no matter what.

>
> Dogs don't. Neither do most other normal male animals.


You know, many men who hate gays are afraid that if they look inside
themselves, they might find they are ***. Do you hate women you're not
attracted to, are do you just treat them neutrally? Why can't you just
treat *** men neutrally? Why are you so scared of them? If they come
on to you, just say no, like you would to an unattractive woman.
What's the big deal?

> > You're a little too sure of yourself. Care for a toke and open your
> > mind a bit?

>
> It doesn't open your mind; it fries it. You're an example of why it's not a good idea.


Well, don't worry, I wouldn't waste it on someone like you anyways.


[email protected] 10-08-2006 06:17 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 

chico chupacabra wrote:
> retardedly wrote:
>
>
> > pearl wrote:
> >
> >>"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message k.net...
> >>
> >>pearl wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>>>>
http://www.reflexology-research.com/abstracts.htm
> >>>>>
> >>>>>There are no legitimate clinical studies
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>All of the abstracts on that page are
> >>>
> >>>Bullshit. They are *not* from any legitimate clinical
> >>>studies.
> >>
> >>'Forsch Komplementarmed. 1999 Jun;6(3):129-34.
> >>[Changes of renal blood flow during organ-associated foot reflexology
> >>measured by color Doppler sonography]
> >>[Article in German]
> >>Sudmeier I, Bodner G, Egger I, Mur E, Ulmer H, Herold M.
> >>Universitatsklinik fur Innere Medizin, Innsbruck, Austria.
> >>
> >>Using colour Doppler sonography blood flow changes of the right kidney
> >>during foot reflexology were determined in a placebo-controlled, double-blind,
> >>randomised study. 32 healthy young adults (17 women, 15 men) were
> >>randomly assigned to the verum or placebo group. The verum group received
> >>foot reflexology at zones corresponding to the right kidney, the placebo group
> >>was treated on other foot zones. Before, during and after foot reflexology the
> >>blood flow of three vessels of the right kidney was measured using colour
> >>Doppler sonography. Systolic peak velocity and end diastolic peak velocity
> >>were measured in cm/s, and the resistive index, a parameter of the vascular
> >>resistance, was calculated. The resistive index in the verum group showed a
> >>highly significant decrease (p </= 0.001) during and an increase (p = 0.001)
> >>after foot reflexology. There was no difference between men and women and
> >>no difference between smokers and non-smokers. Verum and placebo group
> >>significantly differed concerning alterations of the resistive index both between
> >>the measuring points before versus during foot reflexology (p = 0.002) and
> >>those during versus after foot reflexology (p = 0.031). The significant decrease
> >>of the resistive index during foot reflexology in the verum group indicates a
> >>decrease of flow resistance in renal vessels and an increase of renal blood flow.
> >>These findings support the hypothesis that organ-associated foot reflexology
> >>is effective in changing renal blood flow during therapy.
> >>
> >>Publication Types:
> >>Clinical Trial
> >>Randomized Controlled Trial
> >>
> >>

> >
> >
> > That's all well and good, but we still aren't going to see reflexology
> > gold stamped by the medical beaurocracy any time soon.

>
> It doesn't need a gold stamp from "the medical beaurocracy" [sic] if it
> actually works. It doesn't.
>


I agree, about needing the stamp that is. Whether it works or not
should be up to the consumer to decide.

> > The usual
> > reasons: too inexpensive, and not "patented". Show me the money.

>
> What about, It fails in every ****ing double blind trial? Doctors
> recommend many treatments and preventive measures that cost little or
> nothing and provide them with no additional income. "Show me the money"
> applies to the "alternative medicine" (should read: "alternative to
> science") swindlers to lull gullible and desperate people into parting
> with money for bogus treatment.
>


They are at it full tilt, taking as much as 20% of GDP in some
estimates. What commonly are known as "aternative medicines" don't get
much of a piece of this lucrative market of the gullible and desperate.



> > On the bright side, you shouldn't really care.

>
> She doesn't, so long as the people she dupes pay her to rub their feet.
>
> > Your reflexologist is
> > probably better at what he/she does now than if they had to deal with
> > kickbacks, paperwork, drug pushers, etc.

>
> WTF are you prating about now, shev? That's a broad brush, but I know
> it's your MO to use one and then back-track.
>


Sorry about the broad brush and the modus. What would you prefer to
discuss?

> > Aren't you glad you don't
> > have to go to a hospital?

>
> Reflexology doesn't prevent cancer or Alzheimer's patients from
> requiring REAL medical care, dumbass. No matter how much "alternative"
> medicine those patients receive, they still require the REAL thing to
> deal with or survive their conditions.
>


And what should be the "REAL thing"? Especially for those two in
particular, for which so much is spent and so few are cured..
personally I think the real thing should be preventative medicine such
as diet. I guess that's why I'm in this forum.

> > If your insurance doesn't pay for it, that's
> > your problem for buying the insurance.

>
> Insurance shouldn't pay for bogus treatments.
>


It should pay for exactly what the customer wants it to pay for as
outlined in the contract. Perhaps there's a market for foot-massage
insurance. There's probably one for alien abduction insurance. Fine
with me, as long as I don't have to buy it.

> > Anyway, such a change in blood flow could be entirely psychosomatic.

>
> Every single instance which she's cited benefits have pertained to
> psychosomatic complaints: PMS cramps, whether or not some kid can take a
> shit and feel good for it, etc.


Psychosomatic effects are remarkably broad and effect almost every
disease or ailment. Did you hear about the multiple-personality
patient one of which had diabetes and the other didn't? The blood
sugar changed almost immediately with the personality.

Cheers - shevek


Dutch 10-08-2006 06:22 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Dutch wrote:
>> "Scented Nectar" > wrote
>> >
>> > Dutch wrote:
>> >> "Scented Nectar" > wrote
>> >> >
>> >> > Dutch wrote:
>> >> >> "Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
>> >> > ...
>> >> >> > He might escalate and do something like rape the animal, thinking
>> >> >> > it
>> >> >> > likes it too (dogs can't say yes or no).
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Rape is a violent act, there is no supportable reason to believe
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> he
>> >> >> would harm his dog.
>> >> >
>> >> > I hope not.
>> >>
>> >> You'd be crazy to **** off an animal with large teeth who has your
>> >> dick
>> >> in
>> >> its mouth.
>> >
>> > He would be crazy, but he still could abuse the animal in ways less
>> > risky.

>>
>> He could do a lot of things, so could you, but you have no evidence that
>> he
>> would.

>
> The fact that he feels ok about tricking the dog into sex indicates to
> me a dangerous mentality, although I agree that he won't necessarily
> take it further than his blowjobs. Does he ever have sex with humans?
> I hope he washes it first.


I didn't know him that well, thankfully. We were teenagers at the time.

>> >> >> > A mindset that sexualizes
>> >> >> > animals is on very shaky grounds.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> You're presuming something that doesn't necessarily follow, I'm
>> >> >> surprised
>> >> >> a
>> >> >> *** person would do this. There is a stereotype among straight
>> >> >> people
>> >> >> that
>> >> >> all gays have tendencies towards pedophilia. This is also an
>> >> >> unsupported
>> >> >> conclusion. I agree that one must be weird to do what he did, but
>> >> >> it
>> >> >> doesn't
>> >> >> make it necessarily immoral except in a social context. Just
>> >> >> because
>> >> >> something seems icky does not make it immoral.
>> >> >
>> >> > You're presuming I'm ***.
>> >>
>> >> I thought you said you were, anyway the point is the same.
>> >
>> > Nope. I am bisexual. Normally I wouldn't mention it here, but since I
>> > have mentioned it on other sites, it could probably be googled.

>>
>> You've mentioned it, I don't really care.
>>
>> >> > I presume that most people, *** or straight,
>> >> > would not think too highly of what that friend of your's is doing.
>> >>
>> >> I agree, but not because he's harming the dog. I found it to be sick,
>> >> in
>> >> a
>> >> funny way, like the love affairs between farmers and their sheep...
>> >
>> > Farmers who rape sheep are worse than your friend on the morality scale
>> > in my opinion.

>>
>> Violence/rape by definition causes harm, where is the harm in ****ing a
>> sheep?

>
> The sheep don't just allow themselves to be ****ed. If they weren't
> restrained and had a choice I'm sure that they would not let the farmer
> **** them.


I don't imagine the sheep would be paying much attention. I would guess that
they are fed grain or some other treat so they are distracted. I can't see
restraining a sheep to that extent.
>
>> > Your friend tricked the dog into blowing him, which is
>> > less wrong than raping a sheep. Both are pretty ****ed up and sick
>> > though.

>>
>> "Sicko" and wrong due to the infliction of harm are not the same thing.

>
> No, but it's an indicator of potential further abuse.


I don't think that's necessarily true.

>> >> >> > I would recommend to anyone has that
>> >> >> > mindset, that they try to refocus their libidoes on something
>> >> >> > safe,
>> >> >> > like those Furries or Plushies people or whatever they're called.
>> >> >> > They're weird, but nonharmful. They dress up as animals and have
>> >> >> > sex
>> >> >> > with each other. Some have sex with stuffed animals, I think.
>> >> >> > One
>> >> >> > of
>> >> >> > the weirdest fetishes I've heard of, but morally they are
>> >> >> > completely
>> >> >> > ok
>> >> >> > as they harm no one.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> As far as I know his dog was never harmed at all. Licking his
>> >> >> master's
>> >> >> dick
>> >> >> meant he got whatever yummy treat was smeared on it, I doubt if it
>> >> >> had
>> >> >> any
>> >> >> more significance than that to the animal.
>> >> >
>> >> > It's still wrong, just like it would be wrong if he were to smear
>> >> > his
>> >> > dick with candy and invite children to lick it off. I see it as
>> >> > comparable.
>> >>
>> >> It's not comparable AT ALL, children have a basic human sexual
>> >> identity
>> >> from
>> >> a very young age, and sexual interaction with adults is well-known to
>> >> cause
>> >> severe psychological trauma and loss of self-esteem. A high proportion
>> >> of
>> >> teen drug addicts, prostitutes and sexual dysfunction can be traced
>> >> back
>> >> to
>> >> early sexual interference from adults. I am describing the HARM caused
>> >> by
>> >> adult-on-child sex, NONE of this applies to animals. Sex with animals
>> >> is
>> >> just sicko, it shows poor taste, perhaps poor character on the part of
>> >> the
>> >> person doing it, but it's not immoral in the same way that HARMFUL sex
>> >> with
>> >> children is.
>> >
>> > It is comparable if you consider the equivelant in children.

>>
>> There is no equivalent in children, they are completely different issues.
>> Your confusion here is probably related to your silly anthropomorphic
>> ideas
>> about animals.

>
> I don't see the difference. Both involve taking sexual advantage.


The difference is the harm to the subject of the perverted act.

>> > A young
>> > enough child wouldn't know that licking candy in that situation is
>> > getting the pedafreak off. Yet, even though the child is not harmed,
>> > it is very much wrong on the part of the adult.

>>
>> You're mistaken, any child old enough to interact with an adult is
>> capable
>> of being emotionally and psychologically scarred by it.

>
> Possibly the same holds true for animals. We just don't know.


That's nonsense.



[email protected] 10-08-2006 07:38 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 
>
> What about, It fails in every ****ing double blind trial? Doctors
> recommend many treatments and preventive measures that cost little or
> nothing and provide them with no additional income. "Show me the money"
> applies to the "alternative medicine" (should read: "alternative to
> science") swindlers to lull gullible and desperate people into parting
> with money for bogus treatment.



I noticed you used the word "gullible". Oddly enough,
this is not really an actual English word. If you check your
dictionary, you'll see that I'm right.


Leif Erikson[_2_] 10-08-2006 07:44 PM

Where's everybody gone?
 
lesley the foot-rubbing whore of Cork, Ireland:
> "Leif Erikson" > wrote in message k.net...
>
> > Foot massage makes people feel better, and that's not
> > to be discounted, but it's not to be understated,
> > either. Reflexology is QUACKERY.

>
> I doubt it would help you in your desperate condition though.


Quackery never helps anyone apart from making the quack some ill-gotten
money.


[email protected] 10-08-2006 07:50 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
chico chupacabra wrote:
> Derek wrote:
>
> >>I disagree with your self-identification as an expert in the field of
> >>animal behavior. Your background is that of a history major with a
> >>series of serious failures in your family and work life: abandoning a
> >>child, in and out of marriages, living in some goofy dress-up commune,
> >>and chucking everything to indulge yourself in every form of
> >>perversion and self-debasement you could find in LA and SF.

> >
> >
> > 825 CALLE MEJIA SANTA FE NM, to be precise.
> >
> > Karen Winter - http://tinyurl.com/phzan
> > Sylvia Stevens - http://tinyurl.com/puaj9
> >
> > And here's a Google Maps link showing the route from their
> > hovel on Calle Mejia to their closest Episcopal church, Church
> > of the Holy Faith: http://tinyurl.com/ncea2.
> >
> > [..]

>
>
> It's not a hovel, it's a trailer. And whatever you may have done over at
> Google, your message is still bouncing around usenet.


Ha ha ha ha ha!


Leif Erikson[_2_] 10-08-2006 07:52 PM

an (incorrect ) observation about "the side"
 
Karen Winter, bird molestor and child abandoner, lied:
> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
> > I disagree with your self-identification as an expert in the field of
> > animal behavior.

>
> Karen Winter, bird molestor and child abandoner, lied:
>
> Tough. You're wrong.


He is not wrong, he's *right*. You have no expertise in animal
behavior - none whatever.



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