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cheeky upchuck wrote:
> Figures.


Yeah, it figures that you have to edit it the answers you want to see.

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pearl wrote:

> > > > >>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
> > > > >>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
> > > > >>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
> > > > >>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
> > > > >>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> > > > >>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
> > > > >>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
> > > > >>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.
> > > > >
> > > > <...>
> > > >
> > > > > Here you see the group of priests with torches...
> > > >
> > > > It's silly pageantry, that's all.
> > >
> > > Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the questions.

> >
> > I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for WASPs.

> The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where they mock
> the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.
>
> No, it isn't.


Yes, it is.

<...>

> * Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F,


> Answer the questions


I'll address this one irrelevant point, for upon it your conspiracy theory house of cards crumbles. Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The temperature for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design strengths -- considering even the redundancies built in from sound engineering practices, something which you're not qualified to discuss since you flunked out of engineering school -- is far below 2700°F. And fwiw, jet fuel can burn at temperatures higher than your 2700°F mark given the right circumstances (e.g., large volumes of oxygen -- which was the case on 9/11 given the size of the holes made by the planes).

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html
http://www.keytosteel.com/default.as...Article&NM=102
http://www.key-to-steel.com/default....kArticle&NM=59
http://tinyurl.com/enmw2
Etc.
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pearl wrote:

> > <...>
> > > Always question 'experts'.

> >
> > Especially reflexologists, herbalists, naturopaths, etc.

>
> You're an 'expert' on it all, I suppose. LOL!


At least I know that it's a load of bullshit and not worth basing my life or livelihood on it.
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Skanky wrote:

>> It's not exactly an assumption, any more than the facts about your >> being a slacker, carless, etc., have been established.

>
> You're just too ridiculous.


You're the grown woman with a "dream" of one day getting five acres and a pickup truck but lacking the ambition and means to acquire any of it -- beyond hoping that you get "lucky" and win a lottery.

> Please prove all of these conclusively.


Feel free to review the archives for threads in which your lack of ambition was fully discussed and established.

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Skanky wrote:

>>>> How long has it been since you gave some guy booty so you could
>>>> score some weed?
>>>
>>> Yesterday. Twice.

>>
>> Figures.

>
> Yeah, it figures


Still, it's the most ambition you've shown in all your 46 years. Twice is double the effort (and cooze) you usually put out.


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pearl wrote:

> > > <...>
> > >
> > >>Always question 'experts'.
> > >
> > >
> > > Especially reflexologists, herbalists, naturopaths, etc.

> >
> > Because they have no expertise at all but pretend to have.

>
> Another 'expert'. LOL!!!


You're a charlatan, a "faith" healer. It's sad that there are people gullible enough to believe that your foot-rubs will cure them of anything, much less defer real medical help for serious conditions because of your anti-science propaganda. Your practice is like Darwin's Waiting Room.
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pearl wrote:
> "chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
>
> pearl wrote:
>
>
>>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
>>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?

>>
>>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
>>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
>>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
>>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
>>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
>>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
>>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.

>
>
> 'The German Brotherhood
>
> [snip lesley shit-hemorrhage number 1]


There is no connection between any "German Brotherhood"
<guffaw> and Yale's Skull and Bones.

Skull and Bones members are not referred to as "adepts".

You stupid semi-literate brain-damaged ****.



>>>>Iranian-funded missiles from
>>>>Hezbollah up their asses and forgive and forget about Shalit and anyone
>>>>else Hamas and Hezbollah want to kidnap and kill.
>>>
>>>You'd like us to forget about the the murders in Gaza

>>
>>Which ones? The ones in retaliation for suicide bombings? I don't
>>consider targeting buildings where explosive vests or rockets are being
>>made to constitute murder.

>
>
> Friday, 9 June 2006, 18:28 GMT 19:28 UK
>
> Palestinians killed on Gaza beach
>
> [snip lesley shit-hemorrhage number two]


Irrelevant


>
>
>>>and the many thousands
>>>of Palestinians rotting away in Israeli prisons - including women and children.

>>
>>You say "children," I say "juveniles." Why are they imprisoned or in
>>camps? Because they've presented a danger to [you won't say "other
>>children" so I'll say] Israeli soldiers or Israeli citizens (Arab
>>Christians and Jews alike). Same for women who are known associates of
>>terrorists.

>
>
> 'Former Israel Prime Minster, Yitzhak Rabin,
> [snip lesley shit-hemorrhage number three]
>
>>>>>>>You have tried to defend and cover up the most
>>>>>>>heinous crimes against humanity,

>>
>>>>>>Examples?

>>
>>>>>Mass murder through 'war'

>>
>>>>Where's your contempt for those who started it? Oh wait, you think the
>>>>planes were flown by remote control and it just happened to have some
>>>>fellows who'd trained in bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan;
>>>
>>>You wish to discuss 911? OK. Start by refuting this:
>>>http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

>
>
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones#Critics

>
>
> 'In 1973, Jones
>
>[snip lesley double-barreled shit-hemorrhage number four]


"Jones has written a paper entitled 'Behold My Hands:
Evidence for Christ's Visit in Ancient America'" Jones
is a complete crackpot.

Jones is tied to the "cold fusion" CHARLATANS Pons and
Fleishchmann. Jones is a crackpot.

"When Ross asked Jones to describe the possible number
and positioning of the charges, Jones consulted the
Internet and described on-air that it would take about
100 pre-positioned locations, extrapolating this
information based upon the positioning information from
the implosion of the Kingdome. He explained that his
conclusions were based solely upon ***on-the-fly
back-of-the-napkin*** analysis extrapolated from the
Kingdome implosion data done during the commercial
break." [emphasis added]

"Jones' paper has been met by widespread indifference,
and general dismissiveness, in the larger scientific
community. Since Jones' paper has not been published in
a scientific journal, there are many academicians,
including some from Jones' own university, who question
whether the article has been properly vetted by other
experts in the field. [10]

The BYU physics and mathematics departments have issued
a statement in which they distanced themselves from
Jones' research. A similar statement was issued by
BYU's structural engineering faculty, the Ira A. Fulton
College of Engineering and Technology. These statements
noted that Jones' hypotheses and interpretations of
evidence were being questioned by scholars and
practitioners, and that his analyses and hypotheses had
not been 'submitted to relevant scientific venues that
would ensure rigorous technical peer review.'"

Jones is a crackpot.
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chico chupacabra wrote:

> pearl wrote:
>
>
>>>>>>>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
>>>>>>>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
>>>>>>>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
>>>>>>>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
>>>>>>>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
>>>>>>>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
>>>>>>>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
>>>>>>>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.
>>>>>>
>>>>><...>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Here you see the group of priests with torches...
>>>>>
>>>>>It's silly pageantry, that's all.
>>>>
>>>>Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the questions.
>>>
>>>I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for WASPs.

>>
>>The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where they mock
>>the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.
>>
>>No, it isn't.

>
>
> Yes, it is.
>
> <...>
>
>>* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F,

>
>
>>Answer the questions

>
>
> I'll address this one irrelevant point, for upon it your conspiracy theory house of cards crumbles. Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The temperature for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design strengths -- considering even the redundancies built in from sound engineering practices, something which you're not qualified to discuss since you flunked out of engineering school -- is far below 2700°F. And fwiw, jet fuel can burn at temperatures higher than your 2700°F mark given the right circumstances (e.g., large volumes of oxygen -- which was the case on 9/11 given the size of the holes made by the planes).
>
> http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html
> http://www.keytosteel.com/default.as...Article&NM=102
> http://www.key-to-steel.com/default....kArticle&NM=59
> http://tinyurl.com/enmw2
> Etc.


It absolutely is necessary that the ****witted lying
two-penny foot-rubbing whore of Cork believes in 9/11
conspiracy theories. There is no ****ING WAY under the
sun this stupid **** could believe in all the other
irrational bullshit on the below list, and somehow
*not* believe in 9/11 conspiracy theories.

"zero point field"
"veganism"
"inner earth beings"
"hollow earth" based on a goofy patent for a
MANUFACTURED globe
helium-inflated number(s) for feed:beef
rain forest destruction
Brazil's exports (based on *Argentina's* trade)
Stolen French flying saucers
Zapper and Hulda Clark's quackery
Foot massage (as cure-all)
Astrology
Numerology
Alien abduction
bestiality (she thinks it's okay to have sex with
animals)
Leprechauns
Channeling
Polar fountains as proof of a hollow earth
Sun gazing
Drinking urine as a cure-all
Chemtrails
AIDS and ebola conspiracy theory
Crop circles
she's sexually aroused by violent ex-convicts
she participates in the skinhead subculture
she accepts the validity of online IQ tests (even
multiple attempts)
crackpot 9-11 conspiracy theories
Jeff Rense is a valid source for "news"
Inability to distinguish between hearsay and evidence
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chico chupacabra wrote:

> pearl wrote:
>
>
>>>><...>
>>>>
>>>>>Always question 'experts'.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Especially reflexologists, herbalists, naturopaths, etc.
>>>
>>>Because they have no expertise at all but pretend to have.

>>
>>Another 'expert'. LOL!!!

>
>
> You're a charlatan, a "faith" healer. It's sad that there are people gullible enough to believe that your foot-rubs will cure them of anything, much less defer real medical help for serious conditions because of your anti-science propaganda. Your practice is like Darwin's Waiting Room.


"Darwin's waiting room" - I love it! It turns out
there's a band by that name.

Foot massage makes people feel better, and that's not
to be discounted, but it's not to be overstated,
either. Foot rubbing doesn't cure anything.
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"Rupert" > wrote
>
> Dutch wrote:


[..]

>> No, anyone who thinks that it is a profound observation of moral
>> philosophy
>> that we may act in ways which adversely affect the well-being of others
>> without violating their rights is a deluded, pompous twit.

>
> It's a point which is fairly widely agreed upon. It's not supposed to
> be profound, but it's something that has to be borne in mind when
> trying to come up with an account of what a rights violation is. I
> brought it up because you seemed to think Regan is conflating rights
> violations with acts which cause harm, which I doubt is the case.


You give him too much credit. I find he indulges in such a tangled quagmire
of ideas that it's impossible to know where the logic ends and the
equivocation begins. The quote provided is a prime example.

"The rights view answers these questions as follows. In cases in which
innocent people are murdered painlessly, their right to be treated with
respect is violated; that is what makes their murder wrong."

--> What makes murder wrong is that it is the act of unlawfully depriving a
person of their life.

"In cases in which the victims suffer greatly, the fundamental wrong is the
same: a lack of respect, only in these cases the wrong done is compounded by
how much the victims suffer."

--> The infliction of pain by unlawful act is an intrusion on a person's
freedom to enjoy life, that's why it's wrong.

"The suffering and other harms people are made to endure at the hands of
those who violate their rights is a lamentable, sometimes an unspeakable
tragic feature of the world."

--> It's fundamentally wrong to deprive innocent people of their rights, not
simply a "tragic feature of the world". That characterization would apply to
an act of nature like a hurricane, not a deliberate human act.

"Still, according to the rights view, this suffering and these other harms
occur ** as a consequence** of treating individuals with a lack of respect:"

--> Lack of respect for the rights of the victim on the part of the
perpetrator can be inferred in any rights violation, but it's tautological
to call that the basis of why it's wrong. It's wrong because of the
violation suffered by the victim.

"..as such, as bad as they are, and as much as we would wish them away, the
suffering and other harms are not themselves the fundamental wrong." Tom
Regan. The animal Rights Debate. Page198-199"

The harm itself *cannot* be the fundamental wrong, a wrong is by definition
an act, and harm is a consequence, not an act. A wrong is basically defined
as an act which carries a substantial likelihood of resulting in harm to an
innocent person. Again he is talking in circles.




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"Scented Nectar" > wrote
>
> Dutch wrote:
>> "Scented Nectar" > wrote
>> >
>> > Dutch wrote:
>> >> "Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>> >> > He might escalate and do something like rape the animal, thinking it
>> >> > likes it too (dogs can't say yes or no).
>> >>
>> >> Rape is a violent act, there is no supportable reason to believe that
>> >> he
>> >> would harm his dog.
>> >
>> > I hope not.

>>
>> You'd be crazy to **** off an animal with large teeth who has your dick
>> in
>> its mouth.

>
> He would be crazy, but he still could abuse the animal in ways less
> risky.


He could do a lot of things, so could you, but you have no evidence that he
would.

>> >> > A mindset that sexualizes
>> >> > animals is on very shaky grounds.
>> >>
>> >> You're presuming something that doesn't necessarily follow, I'm
>> >> surprised
>> >> a
>> >> *** person would do this. There is a stereotype among straight people
>> >> that
>> >> all gays have tendencies towards pedophilia. This is also an
>> >> unsupported
>> >> conclusion. I agree that one must be weird to do what he did, but it
>> >> doesn't
>> >> make it necessarily immoral except in a social context. Just because
>> >> something seems icky does not make it immoral.
>> >
>> > You're presuming I'm ***.

>>
>> I thought you said you were, anyway the point is the same.

>
> Nope. I am bisexual. Normally I wouldn't mention it here, but since I
> have mentioned it on other sites, it could probably be googled.


You've mentioned it, I don't really care.

>> > I presume that most people, *** or straight,
>> > would not think too highly of what that friend of your's is doing.

>>
>> I agree, but not because he's harming the dog. I found it to be sick, in
>> a
>> funny way, like the love affairs between farmers and their sheep...

>
> Farmers who rape sheep are worse than your friend on the morality scale
> in my opinion.


Violence/rape by definition causes harm, where is the harm in ****ing a
sheep?

> Your friend tricked the dog into blowing him, which is
> less wrong than raping a sheep. Both are pretty ****ed up and sick
> though.


"Sicko" and wrong due to the infliction of harm are not the same thing.

>> >> > I would recommend to anyone has that
>> >> > mindset, that they try to refocus their libidoes on something safe,
>> >> > like those Furries or Plushies people or whatever they're called.
>> >> > They're weird, but nonharmful. They dress up as animals and have
>> >> > sex
>> >> > with each other. Some have sex with stuffed animals, I think. One
>> >> > of
>> >> > the weirdest fetishes I've heard of, but morally they are completely
>> >> > ok
>> >> > as they harm no one.
>> >>
>> >> As far as I know his dog was never harmed at all. Licking his master's
>> >> dick
>> >> meant he got whatever yummy treat was smeared on it, I doubt if it had
>> >> any
>> >> more significance than that to the animal.
>> >
>> > It's still wrong, just like it would be wrong if he were to smear his
>> > dick with candy and invite children to lick it off. I see it as
>> > comparable.

>>
>> It's not comparable AT ALL, children have a basic human sexual identity
>> from
>> a very young age, and sexual interaction with adults is well-known to
>> cause
>> severe psychological trauma and loss of self-esteem. A high proportion of
>> teen drug addicts, prostitutes and sexual dysfunction can be traced back
>> to
>> early sexual interference from adults. I am describing the HARM caused by
>> adult-on-child sex, NONE of this applies to animals. Sex with animals is
>> just sicko, it shows poor taste, perhaps poor character on the part of
>> the
>> person doing it, but it's not immoral in the same way that HARMFUL sex
>> with
>> children is.

>
> It is comparable if you consider the equivelant in children.


There is no equivalent in children, they are completely different issues.
Your confusion here is probably related to your silly anthropomorphic ideas
about animals.

> A young
> enough child wouldn't know that licking candy in that situation is
> getting the pedafreak off. Yet, even though the child is not harmed,
> it is very much wrong on the part of the adult.


You're mistaken, any child old enough to interact with an adult is capable
of being emotionally and psychologically scarred by it.



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OBSERVATIONS...

> > > > > >>>Good grief, Karen Winter! The OBVIOUS and CORRECT thing to
> > > > > >>>do would have been to adopt a FEMALE cockatiel! *That* would
> > > > > >>>have been the *respectful* thing to do.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Since when has Karen been respectful of anyone or anything?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since always.


This is patently untrue, Lesley. Her insincerity rings in every post. And neither is she a particularly nice person: I remind you this is the same Karen Winter who threatened a couple summers ago to unleash some violent anarchist friends on another person who posts to these groups (and his family). She threatened that they were already watching him and his family, and that he was in danger.

> > > > > No. Never.
> > > >
> > > > You don't even know the meaning of the word.
> > >
> > > Someone who would call other people

> >
> > You're not a person

>
> You cut slack for someone who jacks off a little, defenseless bird
> and you call me evil, loathsome, fascist, etc. Nice.


This is the more important point: once again, "the side" has shown they'll circle the wagons to protect their own no matter how warped, depraved, insane, violent, nutty, or loony someone is or becomes. Even though Lesley has finally come around to the position that sex between humans and animals is aberrant and weird, she still embraces Karen as a comrade-in-arms because Karen, while thinking it's perfectly fine and normal to have sexual relations with animals, opposes eating them. In many instances involving "normal" people, this alone would be enough for someone to be ostracized among her peers; for "the side," though, it's a small bump down the queer path of life.

The same "circling the wagons" exists with respect to Lesley and her crazy posts about inner earth beings and all the rest of the stuff that would, in circumstances involving NORMAL people, result in calls for immediate psychiatric treatment. Instead, others on "the side" see her as some kind of asset.

One exception: Derek has demonstrated that he won't turn a blind eye to Karen's sexual depravity. On the other hand, he has waffled between endorsing Lesley as some kind of expert on nutrition when her qualifications (graduate of a foot-rub course in London) are quite lacking and once or twice calling her out for her wild claims about reflexology and curing her sister with it. Nevermind that her knowledge of nutrition is based on pseudoscience from crackpot "vegan" websites, too. The side was ultimately more important than tales of chemtrails and little people beneath Mount Shasta.

Thus, sticking with "the side" appears to be more important to its members than either the facts of the issues at hand or the sanity or the normalcy of others on "the side." Given the whole lot of you, I think it's very fair when people judge others by the company they keep.
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chico chupacabra wrote:

> OBSERVATIONS...
>
>
>>>>>>>>>Good grief, Karen Winter! The OBVIOUS and CORRECT thing to
>>>>>>>>>do would have been to adopt a FEMALE cockatiel! *That* would
>>>>>>>>>have been the *respectful* thing to do.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Since when has Karen been respectful of anyone or anything?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Since always.

>
>
> This is patently untrue, Lesley. Her insincerity rings in every post. And neither is she a particularly nice person: I remind you this is the same Karen Winter who threatened a couple summers ago to unleash some violent anarchist friends on another person who posts to these groups (and his family). She threatened that they were already watching him and his family, and that he was in danger.


She did intimate that he was in danger, but the
likelihood is that Karen was just "woofing". In any
case, I have it on good authority that the person she
threatened didn't really feel much threat at all.
Doughy-assed 60ish "vegans" don't really pose much threat.


>
>>>>>>No. Never.
>>>>>
>>>>>You don't even know the meaning of the word.
>>>>
>>>>Someone who would call other people
>>>
>>>You're not a person

>>
>>You cut slack for someone who jacks off a little, defenseless bird
>>and you call me evil, loathsome, fascist, etc. Nice.

>
>
> This is the more important point: once again, "the side" has shown they'll circle the wagons to protect their own no matter how warped, depraved, insane, violent, nutty, or loony someone is or becomes. Even though Lesley has finally come around to the position that sex between humans and animals is aberrant and weird, she still embraces Karen as a comrade-in-arms because Karen, while thinking it's perfectly fine and normal to have sexual relations with animals, opposes eating them. In many instances involving "normal" people, this alone would be enough for someone to be ostracized among her peers; for "the side," though, it's a small bump down the queer path of life.


I am not convinced lesley really finds anything wrong
with bestiality. It all depends on who the
perpetrators are. If they're self-styled "animal
rights activists", she finds some way to rationalize
it, i.e. their unpersuasive claim that they aren't
"exploiting" the animals. But if it's someone who
freely consumes animal products, she starts out with
animus against her.

lesley is entirely inconsistent.


>
> The same "circling the wagons" exists with respect to Lesley and her crazy posts about inner earth beings and all the rest of the stuff that would, in circumstances involving NORMAL people, result in calls for immediate psychiatric treatment. Instead, others on "the side" see her as some kind of asset.
>
> One exception: Derek has demonstrated that he won't turn a blind eye to Karen's sexual depravity. On the other hand, he has waffled between endorsing Lesley as some kind of expert on nutrition when her qualifications (graduate of a foot-rub course in London) are quite lacking and once or twice calling her out for her wild claims about reflexology and curing her sister with it. Nevermind that her knowledge of nutrition is based on pseudoscience from crackpot "vegan" websites, too. The side was ultimately more important than tales of chemtrails and little people beneath Mount Shasta.
>
> Thus, sticking with "the side" appears to be more important to its members than either the facts of the issues at hand or the sanity or the normalcy of others on "the side." Given the whole lot of you, I think it's very fair when people judge others by the company they keep.

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Default Where's everybody gone?

chico chupacabra wrote:

> pearl wrote:


<snip>

>>That's your interpretation of it.


> It's the most reasonable interpretation of it.


It's your interpretation, which by definition means it is
twisted and false.

BTW -- when are you going to support your *scientific*
claim that animals never have cross-species imprinting
on humans? It seems clear from the recent comments
here that I'm not the only person saying it happens.

<snip>

> Eat me, Pearl.


Now *that's* a revolting and perverted idea...who
would want to?

<snip>
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Default Where's everybody gone?

Karen Winter blabbered:

> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
>> pearl wrote:

>
>
> <snip>
>
>>> That's your interpretation of it.

>
>
>> It's the most reasonable interpretation of it.

>
>
> It's your interpretation, which by definition means it is
> twisted and false.
>
> BTW -- when are you going to support your *scientific*
> claim that animals never have cross-species imprinting
> on humans? It seems clear from the recent comments
> here that I'm not the only person saying it happens.
>
> <snip>
>
>> Eat me, Pearl.

>
>
> Now *that's* a revolting and perverted idea...who
> would want to?


I wouldn't because I'm straight, but I imagine some
attractive young woman would. On the other hand,
Karen, you and Sylvia diving into one another's
tuna-trawler holds is a truly revolting thought.


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Default Where's everybody gone?

Karen Winter, bird-molesting "anglo catholic," wrote:

> <snip>
>
> >>That's your interpretation of it.

>
> > It's the most reasonable interpretation of it.

>
> It's your interpretation,


And it's very reasonable.

> > Eat me, Pearl.

>
> Now *that's* a revolting and perverted idea...


That's rich coming from someone who attends NAMBLA meetings, lets a bird
**** her hand, and has sex with an evil FAS-defective named Sylvia.

> who would want to?


A lot more than I'm allowed to even let try. :-D
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Leif Erikson wrote:

> chico chupacabra wrote:


You know, talking to oneself is generally considered a sign
on mental illness....

<snip>

> I am not convinced Pearl really finds anything wrong with bestiality.


She does.

> It all depends on who the perpetrators are.


<snip>

No one -- except you and Derek -- has based his/her opinion
on who the "perpetrators" are. They have based their
opinion on whether an action can be shown to cause *harm*.

All of us agree human/animal sex causes harm to either animal,
or both animal and human involved, in *most* cases, and that it
qualifies as rape in those cases. Those of us with an
understanding of animal behavior ( which excludes you, and
Derek also in many cases ) know that some animals are
imprinted on humans as their preferred mate. We all agree
this is not good, and would almost certainly not happen in
a society which took animal rights seriously. Where we differ
is on what consideration humans should give to this
preference in the case of already-imprinted domestic animals.

Pearl says none, and Scented Nectar seems unsure. Rupert and
I both believe ( if he will excuse me for speaking for him )
that if there is no objective evidence of *harm* the same
criteria should be extended to human/animal sexual activity
as to all other human/animal interaction. For myself, I
put a great deal of stress on the animal's evident *preference*
and I believe that, all else being equal, as long as no *harm*
results, the animal's preference should be respected in this,
as in other, cases -- provided the human is also willing.

Yes, it would be better if the animal had a mate of his/her
own species. We all agree on this. But some animals don't
want a mate of their own species, just as some humans don't.
We may think it is better for a human to get out, mingle
with other humans, find a human partner. But some humans
just want to curl up on the couch or go out hiking with their
companion dog or cat. I think we need to respect such
personal preferences. As long as no *harm* is being done
to another, we have no right to tell another human, OR another
non-human, how to live his/her life, or who to live it with.

> But
> if it's someone who freely consumes animal products, she starts out with
> animus against her.


No kidding. So do I. It's not difficult to see the objective harm
involved there.

<snip>
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Karen Winter, child abandoner, lied:
> Leif Erikson wrote:
>
>> chico chupacabra wrote:

>
>
> You know, talking to oneself is generally considered a sign
> on mental illness....


Mr. Chupacabra and I are two separate persons.


>
>> I am not convinced Pearl really finds anything wrong with bestiality.

>
>
> She does.


I'm not convinced she does, and you are in no position
to say. You're just defending another member of The Side.


>> It all depends on who the perpetrators are.

>
>
> <snip>
>
> No one -- except you and Derek -- has based his/her opinion
> on who the "perpetrators" are.


lesley does.


>> But if it's someone who freely consumes animal products,

she starts out
>> with animus against her.

>
>
> No kidding. So do I.


It's inapplicable to whether or not lesley considers it
okay for the person to have sex with animals.

You have no valid or coherent basis for your animus.
It's just raw bigotry.
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Karen Winter, cat-shampooing "anglo-catholic" bird molestor, wrote:

> Leif Erikson wrote:
>
> > chico chupacabra wrote:

>
> You know, talking to oneself is generally considered a sign
> on mental illness....


Then why do you continue to do it instead of seek professional help?

> <snip>
>
> > I am not convinced Pearl really finds anything wrong with
> > bestiality.

>
> She does.


No, she doesn't. She *finally* agreed that it's depraved and perverted,
but she still doesn't find it so objectionable that she deems the
victim animals of it worthy of protection.

> > It all depends on who the perpetrators are.

>
> <snip>
>
> No one -- except you and Derek -- has based his/her opinion
> on who the "perpetrators" are. They have based their
> opinion on whether an action can be shown to cause *harm*.
>
> All of us agree human/animal sex causes harm to either animal,


Yet you condone it and have willingly and purposefully participated in
"interspecies" sexual activity. Why did you do it if you agree that
it's harmful? Because you're a really whacked-out pervert.

> or both animal and human involved, in *most* cases, and that it
> qualifies as rape in those cases. Those of us with an
> understanding of animal behavior ( which excludes you, and
> Derek also in many cases )


I disagree with your self-identification as an expert in the field of
animal behavior. Your background is that of a history major with a
series of serious failures in your family and work life: abandoning a
child, in and out of marriages, living in some goofy dress-up commune,
and chucking everything to indulge yourself in every form of
perversion and self-debasement you could find in LA and SF. And you
finally admit you let an animal have sex with you -- you're the LAST
person whose judgment we should seek.

> know that some animals are
> imprinted on humans as their preferred mate.


Imprinting isn't the same as conditioning, and vice versa.

> We all agree this is not good,


Then why did you let that bird have sex with/on you?

> and would almost certainly not happen in
> a society which took animal rights seriously.


It wouldn't be "society" if it did.

> Where we differ
> is on what consideration humans should give to this
> preference in the case of already-imprinted domestic animals.


You think it's okay to have sex with them. You've been a
willing participant in such activity.

> Pearl says none,


Lesley has been all over the map.

> and Scented Nectar seems unsure.


Which is quite typical of pot-smoking jellyheads.

> Rupture McScrotum and
> I both believe ( if he will excuse me for speaking for him )
> that if there is no objective evidence of *harm* the same
> criteria should be extended to human/animal sexual activity
> as to all other human/animal interaction.


Human. Animal. Sex.

What more "obective" evidence do you need?

> For myself,


An admitted bird ****er.

> I put a great deal of stress on the animal's evident *preference*


Which would be to be with its own species, not subjected to unnatural
conditioning of depraved humans with really warped urges to sexually
exploit someone (child) or something (animal) that cannot defend him-,
her-, or itself.

> and I believe that, all else being equal, as long as no *harm*
> results, the animal's preference should be respected in this,


You do NOT know an animal's preference. You're making an assumption
based on its behavioral patterns which, all things considered, is most
likely the product of some kind of conditioning -- NOT imprinting.

> as in other, cases -- provided the human is also willing.


The problem with bestiality lies with the warped human, not the animal.

> Yes, it would be better if the animal had a mate of his/her
> own species. We all agree on this.


Then stop molesting animals, Karen.

> But some animals don't
> want a mate of their own species,


Ipse dixit and unproven assertion based on your assumption that animals
are rational beings that make conscious decisions. They aren't.

> just as some humans don't.


There's where the problem with bestiality lies.

> We may think it is better for a human to get out, mingle
> with other humans, find a human partner.


The psychiatric profession certainly believes so.

> But some humans
> just want to curl up on the couch or go out hiking with their
> companion dog or cat.


This isn't about curling up on couches or going for hikes. Stop
painting pretty pictures of bestiality because ultimately it's about
sick humans controlling defenseless animals who are either raped or
conditioned to accept sexual abuse.

> I think we need to respect such
> personal preferences.


ANIMALS DON'T MAKE PERSONAL PREFERENCES ON THE SAME LEVEL AS HUMANS.
STOP CONFUSING ANIMAL AND HUMAN BEHAVIOR. THEY ARE NOT IDENTICAL IN
TERMS OF COGNITION, REASON, OR ANYTHING ELSE.

> As long as no *harm* is being done
> to another, we have no right to tell another human, OR another
> non-human, how to live his/her life, or who to live it with.


Yes, we do. We have the right to tell molestors they can't ****
children. We have the right to tell those who engage in buggery to
leave animals alone, especially when the perpetrators mess with animals
that belong to other people. Etc.

> > But
> > if it's someone who freely consumes animal products, she starts out
> > with animus against her.

>
> No kidding. So do I. It's not difficult to see the objective harm
> involved there.


There's no objective harm in eating meat; it's a natural human activity
and it's a natural part of the human diet. It helped us develop
cognitively (well, some of us; the jury's out on Lesley). What's not
natural is for one species to engage in sexual relations with another
species. Someone with that preference is aberrant and acting in a
manner which is far more unnatural human activity than someone who eats
some meat.
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Leif Erikson wrote:

>> Leif Erikson wrote:


>>> chico chupacabra wrote:


Glorfindel wrote:

>> You know, talking to oneself is generally considered a sign
>> of mental illness....


> Mr. Chupacabra and I are two separate persons.


LOL!

I note you snipped my entire explanation of why your previous
post was inaccurate. Can't face the truth, can you?

>>> I am not convinced Pearl really finds anything wrong with bestiality.


>> She does.


> I'm not convinced she does


Too bad. She does. You know it, and are merely being
intentionally annoying by claiming otherwise.

<snip>

>> No one -- except you and Derek -- has based his/her opinion
>> on who the "perpetrators" are.


> Pearl does.


No, she does not, and you know it.

>>> But if it's someone who freely consumes animal products,

> she starts out
>>> with animus against her.


>> No kidding. So do I.


> It's inapplicable to whether or not Pearl considers it okay for the
> person to have sex with animals.


She doesn't. However, it is applicable to your incorrect attack
on her.

> You have no valid or coherent basis for your animus. It's just raw bigotry.


And you know that is false also, because you have yourself
paraphrased arguments other AR supporters and I have given
for our philosophical beliefs, in your attacks on Harrison
of the imaginary pre-existing cattle. You know what the
ethical arguments for AR are, and you quote them when it
suits you to use them against a poster you disagree with.
Then you pretend to have convenient amnesia when it suits
you to attack pro-AR supporters in turn. You could write
a book defending AR if you wanted to do it, but you are
too dishonest to admit it except when attacking an Anti you
dislike for other reasons.






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Karen Winter, child abandoner and bird molestor, lied:

> Leif Erikson wrote:
>>
>> Karen Winter, child abandoner and bird molestor, lied:
>>
>>> Leif Erikson wrote:

>
>
>>>> chico chupacabra wrote:

>
>
> Karen Winter, child abandoner and bird molestor, lied:
>
>>> You know, talking to oneself is generally considered a sign
>>> of mental illness....

>
>
>> Mr. Chupacabra and I are two separate persons.

>
>
> LOL!


No. He and I are two separate persons. Deal with it.


>>>> I am not convinced Pearl really finds anything wrong with bestiality.

>
>
>>> She does.

>
>
>> I'm not convinced she does

>
>
> Too bad. She does.


I'm not convinced she does, and your empty assertion
that she does carries no weight. She's a liar, you're
a liar, and you're just defending a member of The Side.
If someone says she (ostensibly) opposes meat eating,
you go to bat for her. You have no credibility and no
integrity.


>>> No one -- except you and Derek -- has based his/her opinion
>>> on who the "perpetrators" are.

>
>
>> Pearl does.

>
>
> No, she does not,


Yes, absolutely she does. She gives a free pass to
members of The Side.

Stop lying, Karen, you filthy ****.


>>>> But if it's someone who freely consumes animal products,

>>
>> she starts out
>>
>>>> with animus against her.

>
>
>>> No kidding. So do I.

>
>
>> It's inapplicable to whether or not Pearl considers it okay for the
>> person to have sex with animals.

>
>
> She doesn't.


Yes, she does, Karen, you ****ing liar.


>> You have no valid or coherent basis for your animus. It's just raw
>> bigotry.

>
>
> And you know that is false also,


We all know it is *true*, Karen. You have never made a
coherent defense of "ar", and in fact, five and a half
years ago, in your teary departure, you admitted it.

Tomorrow is Ash Wednesday. After prayer
and thought, I feel honesty compels me
to admit publicly that I have no answer
to the long argument here in recent weeks.
I cannot defend my belief that my
involvement in collateral deaths is less
unethical than others' choices. I hereby
admit I am wrong, and I feel my only
honorable course is to withdraw from this
newsgroup. To leave without admitting my
lack of a defense for my actions and
beliefs would be dishonest and cowardly.

I am crying as I write this. [snip vomit]

Karen Winter / "Glorfindel" [puke]

Wahhhhhhhhh!
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On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 01:52:39 GMT, chico chupacabra > wrote:
[..]
>I disagree with your self-identification as an expert in the field of
>animal behavior. Your background is that of a history major with a
>series of serious failures in your family and work life: abandoning a
>child, in and out of marriages, living in some goofy dress-up commune,
>and chucking everything to indulge yourself in every form of
>perversion and self-debasement you could find in LA and SF.


825 CALLE MEJIA SANTA FE NM, to be precise.

Karen Winter - http://tinyurl.com/phzan
Sylvia Stevens - http://tinyurl.com/puaj9

And here's a Google Maps link showing the route from their
hovel on Calle Mejia to their closest Episcopal church, Church
of the Holy Faith: http://tinyurl.com/ncea2.

[..]
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"Derek" > wrote in message ...
>
> And here's a Google Maps link showing the route from their


Go to Google Groups and REMOVE that message immediately!

We are dealing with 'people' with NO conscience here, Derek,
and no - I'm not talking about Karen. You're a dupe to believe
and side with these loathsome ANTI psychopaths. DDDD -
Discredit, Divide, Defeat, Destroy. You play into their hands.


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On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:12:55 +0100, "pearl" > wrote:
>"Derek" > wrote in message ...
>>
>> And here's a Google Maps link showing the route from their

>
>Go to Google Groups and REMOVE that message immediately!
>
>We are dealing with 'people' with NO conscience here, Derek,
>and no - I'm not talking about Karen. You're a dupe to believe
>and side with these loathsome ANTI psychopaths. DDDD -
>Discredit, Divide, Defeat, Destroy. You play into their hands.


Go to http://tinyurl.com/rpvxa , click on the link "business profile"
and see;

Church of the Holy Faith Episcopal
311 East Palace Avenue, Santa Fe, NM 87501
phone: (505) 982-4447

Specialties:
Child Care

I have no option but to act against this potential menace to
children who seeks out positions where she can come
into close contact with them.
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Default Where's everybody gone?

"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
pearl wrote:

> > > > >>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
> > > > >>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
> > > > >>
> > > > >>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
> > > > >>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
> > > > >>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
> > > > >>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> > > > >>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
> > > > >>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
> > > > >>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.
> > > > >
> > > > <...>
> > > >
> > > > > Here you see the group of priests with torches...
> > > >
> > > > It's silly pageantry, that's all.
> > >
> > > Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the questions.

> >
> > I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for WASPs.

> The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where they mock
> the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.
>
>> No, it isn't.

>
> Yes, it is.


No, it isn't. Your boy shrub is a member of a Satanic cult that meets at B-G.

'The German Brotherhood of Death Society is the Thule Society. Adolf Hitler
joined this society in 1919, becoming an adept under the leadership of Dietrich
Eckhart. Later, the Thule Society selected Hitler to be their leader of the New
World Order, as Eckhart revealed on his deathbed, saying, "Follow Hitler; he
will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I have initiated him into the
Secret Doctrine, opened his centers in vision, and given him the means to
communicate with the powers." (Trevor Ravenscroft, The Spear Of Destiny,
p. 91).

In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world had now
entered into a New World Order. Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society. As we stated
earlier, Bush's New World Order is virtually identical with Hitler's; the key
connecting point is the common membership in their respective Brotherhood ..
(Behold A Pale Horse, p. 81; Introduction To The Order, p.7).

We will study this connection in depth today. Let us begin with a quick overview
of the Thule Society, beginning with a study of its practices and relevant history.

* They were Satanists who practiced Black Magic -- this means that they were
"solely concerned with raising their consciousness by means of rituals to
awareness of evil and nonhuman intelligences in the universe; and with achieving
means of communication with these intelligences." (Ravenscroft, p. 161).
Concentrate on that seemingly innocent word, rituals. Christians equate a ritual
to a church service, thereby not understanding its occultic meaning. The New
Age Dictionary defines ritual as a "ceremony to restore balance with nature...
and bring back lost harmony and sacredness." Remember we are dealing with
the Satanic world, where good is called evil and evil good. The sacredness
mentioned here is a Satanic sacredness. Rituals literally are proscribed activities
designed to allow demonic power to flow through the participants. These
activities are proscribed chants, formula wordings, and carefully planned actions.
As we noted last week, the effect is devastatingly powerful, as demonic force
pours through the participants, delivering a counterfeit spiritual experience
which literally transforms their lives. Never skip over the word ritual, as it is a
word of Satanic power.

* Thule members practiced a form of Sexual Magic derived from a lodge of
which Aleister Crowley was a member. Crowley was recognized as the foremost
worshipper of Satan in the 19th Century. "The origin of this...medieval magic...
can be traced to a Freemason, Robert Little, who founded the Societas
Rosicruciana in 1865... (Ravenscroft, Spear of Destiny, p. 164-5). While the
actual sexual perversions which were practiced are too offensive to share, the
results are not. Author Revenscroft stated that "indulgence in the most sadistic
rituals awakened penetrating vision into the workings of Evil Intelligences and
bestowed phenomenal magical powers." (Ibid. p. 167). This is the Thule Society.

Ravenscroft records its effect upon Hitler, "...sexual perversion took a central
place in [Hitler's] life...a monstrous sexual perversion was the very core of his
whole existence, the source of his mediumistic and clairvoyant powers, and the
motivation behind every act through which he reaped a sadistic vengeance on
humanity." (Ibid., p. 171).

Eckart's final act was to initiate Hitler into "a monstrous sadistic magic ritual...
after which he was sexually impotent. Hitler's impotency had a deep
psychological foundation. He knew sexual fulfillment through the extremes of
sadism and masochism... "(Ravenscroft, p. 155, 173). This impotency delivered
a final devastating blow to Hitler's psychological foundation, finally making him
into the sadistic murderer that history knows.
....
As Rosenbaum continued his research, he found definite links between Bones
and the Bavarian Illuminists. The Bavarian Illuminists were part of the original
Masters of the Illuminati. First, Rosenbaum discovered documents which detailed
the origins of Bones back to Germany. These documents stated, "Bones is a
chapter of a corps of a German University..." The document described at length
its relationship with this German Secret Society (the Thule Society) which lead
to the founding of the Skull and Bones in 1832.
......
The Skull and Bones also incorporates sexual activities into their practices.
"The death of the initiate will be as frightful as the use of human skeletons and
ritual psychology can make it..." (Esquire Magazine, "The Last Secrets of
Skull and Bones", Ron Rosenbaum, p. 89). Sexual perversion is part of ritual
psychology. Ron Rosenbaum, author of the Esquire Magazine article, stated
that on initiation night, called tap night, "...if one could climb to the tower of
Weir Hall, the odd castle that overlooks the Bones courtyard, one could hear
strange cries and moans coming from the bowels of the tomb as the 15 newly
tapped members were put through what sounded like a harrowing ordeal..."
(Esquire, September, 1976, p. 86).

Further,[initiates] "lay naked in coffins and tell their deepest and darkest sexual
secrets as part of their initiation." (Esquire, p. 85). These experiences in the
coffins incorporated sexual pain and resulted in being born-again, into the Order,
as we mentioned above. (Cooper, p.95) Powerful force charges through the
participants of these ceremonies, transforming their lives dramatically. This type
ritual is classic Satanism. Anton LaVey states, in his book The Satanic Rituals:
Companion To The Satanic Bible, (p. 57)

"The ceremony of rebirth takes place in a large coffin..This is similar to the
coffin symbolism that...is found in most lodge rituals." Make no mistake about
it: Any organization which utilizes this coffin ritual to simulate rebirth is practising
Satanism, including Skull and Bones.
.......'
http://web.archive.org/web/200410120.../nwothule.html

'The program cover for the ceremony "Cremation of Care" depicts a skeleton,
a demon, and the huge owl illuminated by flames. A small white drawing above
the name of the director depicts a demon or devil with the initials PJ sweeping
something up with a witch's broom.

See exclusive video stills of the ceremony at the website:
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

Watch actual video clips of the ceremony at:
http://www.infowars.com/videos.html

Descriptions of the video clips are as follows:

Here you see the group of priests with torches, in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The high priest is rationalizing the fact that human sacrifice brings beauty
into the world.

Here you see the group of priests with torches in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The priest praises the owl-god and tells everyone to be reverend before him.

This clip shows the boatman in black-hooded garb journeying across the lake
to the owl god, Molak, with the human effigy (we hope) sacrifice. The boatman's
face was painted to resemble that of a skull. The priests on the right await their victim.

Watch and hear the screams as the simulated human sacrifice takes place to the
great owl of Babylon. Midsummer is the high holy point for luciferians and occultists
- hear the priest's words as he burns the effigy - "once again midsummer sets us free."
....
Ask any Native American elder. When Owl manifests in a stone form, it means a
lack of empathy. Shamans the world over manifest their power animals as living
beings, just as they are in nature, not as stone idols. . When people begin to see
their power animals as stone idols it means they have lost their empathy with the
four leggeds of the animal kingdom, and with the two leggeds, the humans.
It means they are pursuing self interest over service to others.
....'
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/newstart/bohemian-grove/

> >> and that
> >> Israelis should sit back and take all those

> >
> > DU armaments from the USA

>
> We should be sending them even more weapons than we are.


Of course you think that, you monster.

> >> Iranian-funded missiles from
> >> Hezbollah up their asses and forgive and forget about Shalit and anyone
> >> else Hamas and Hezbollah want to kidnap and kill.

> >
> > You'd like us to forget about the the murders in Gaza

>
> Which ones? The ones in retaliation for suicide bombings? I don't
> consider targeting buildings where explosive vests or rockets are being
> made to constitute murder.


Friday, 9 June 2006, 18:28 GMT 19:28 UK

Palestinians killed on Gaza beach

The shelling has caused outrage among Palestinians

Seven people, including three children, have been killed by Israeli shells
which hit a beach in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials say.

At least 30 people were wounded in the shelling, they say.

The Israeli military says it has halted all shelling of Gaza and has
launched an inquiry into whether ground-based artillery could have
been involved.

In a statement, the military wing of Hamas threatened to resume attacks
on Israel in the wake of "massacres".

The group has been observing a self-imposed ceasefire for more than a year.

Although there have been threats of a response to other attacks in recent
months, the BBC's Simon Wilson in Jerusalem says the move is significant
because it appears on the official website of the armed wing of the group.

There was no immediate word from the political wing of Hamas, which
dominates the government in the Palestinian Authority.

Four other people were also killed in separate Israeli air strike in northern
Gaza on Friday, Palestinians said.
....'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065008.stm

> > and the many thousands
> > of Palestinians rotting away in Israeli prisons - including women and children.

>
> You say "children," I say "juveniles." Why are they imprisoned or in
> camps? Because they've presented a danger to [you won't say "other
> children" so I'll say] Israeli soldiers or Israeli citizens (Arab
> Christians and Jews alike). Same for women who are known associates of
> terrorists.


'Former Israel Prime Minster, Yitzhak Rabin, said in an uncensored
version of his memoirs, published in the New York Times on 23 October
23rd, 1979:

'We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
question - What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion
waved his hand in a gesture which said "Drive them out!"'

And that's what they did.

The Arabs were driven out of power or consequence in their own land by
Zionist terrorist groups like Hagana, Irgun and the Stern Gang (also known
as Lehi) who bombed and assassinated Arabs, fellow Jews and the British
administrators who had control over Palestine under a mandate from the
League of Nations and the Versailles Peace Conference. 'Palestine' was
then the region we now call Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza Strip,
formerly belonging to the Ottoman Empire.

This Zionist terrorism led to the imposition of the Jewish state in 1948
when 750,000 or more Arabic people were expelled from their own land.
Among the major players in these and other terrorist operations were
Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, butchers who became
Israeli Prime Ministers and had the nerve to condemn Arab terrorism.
......
It is claimed that everything started with the kidnapping of the Israeli
soldiers, but we need to go back at least to June 9th when Israel shelled
a beach in Gaza killing eight Palestinians and injuring 32 civilians,
including 13 children. The dead included seven members of one family.
The Israeli government offered its 'deep regret', but this outrage was no
accident. It was part of the process of instigating a reaction so that
what has happened since could unfold.

On June 13th ,an Israeli plane fired at a vehicle on a busy Gaza road and
when civilians hurried to help the injured another missile was fired into
the crowd. Eleven Palestinians died, including two medical staff and two
children.

Come on, the Israeli government was saying - retaliate. We have the gun
clocked, we're ready to go, and we just need you to give us the excuse to
pull the trigger.

If Arab people had done the same they would have been called terrorists,
the pimps of the 'world community' would have been red-faced in their
condemnation, and Israel's American-funded military would have done
what have these past ten days.

The outrageous double-standards are just sickening. I saw some former
Israel military commander this week saying how terrible it was that Israeli
children had to be sitting in bomb shelters in Haifa when, as she spoke
those words, children were being killed by Israeli bombs in Lebanon.

But then Israeli Prime Minister and terrorist, Menachem Begin, told the
Israeli parliament that Palestinians 'are beasts walking on two legs' and
another Prime Minister and terrorist, Yitzhak Shamir, said in a speech to
Jewish settlers that the Palestinians 'would would be crushed like
grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls'. ('Begin
and the 'Beasts', New Statesman, June 25, 1982, and Yitzhak Shamir
quoted in the New York Times April 1st, 1988). That is what they really
think.
...
The creation of Israel was never an end in itself. It has always been a
means to an end. All along, the plan has been to target the Islamic world
to trigger a global war that would set the world ablaze and lead to the
'solution' of centralised control of the planet and all its peoples. To do
that they needed to create a point of conflict, a power keg, among the
Arab countries that could be exploded to start another global conflict.
This is the real reason for the creation of Israel and the real reason why
the United States has spent its billions building up Israel's might and
military.
...
This is the historical background, the falling dominoes, that have led to
what is happening today with hundreds of Lebanese killed, more than
half a million made refugees, and missiles killing and maiming Israelis
who are manipulated and programmed by their own sick government to
believe the Big Lie.

Of course, Arab terrorism is equally wrong. Violence just begets
violence, only peace begets peace. Every kidnapping, death and injury
is a personal and family tragedy and none is more or less important than
any other. The sight of the Hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah, calling
two Arab children in Israel killed by Hezbollah rockets 'martyrs for
Palestine' was gut-wrenching. There are idiots and terrorist fanatics on
both sides and I have no illusions about the suppression of freedom in
Syria or Iran either. It is a case of seeing the big picture in which the
monstrous game is being played out and putting the Arab response into
its historical context.
....
http://lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=6814

'As a result of their visible activity in the current Intifada, Palestinian
women have not escaped the mass arrest campaigns. Palestinian women
in detention are subjected to mistreatment on a daily basis and are often
held in cells and sections with Israeli criminal prisoners. Regular body
searches are performed with brutality by prison guards; sexual harassment
occurs frequently; the right to elect a representative for their collective
demands is not recognized as in other prisons; solitary confinement is
often used as a form of punishment; detainees are prohibited from going
outside regularly or of using the canteen; cell searches and confiscation
of personal belongings is a common practice; and attacks on women by
beating or firing tear gas into cells occur regularly.

At the end of 2004, there were over 120 Palestinian women being held by
Israeli authorities. The number has steadily increased over the years of
the Intifada making this the largest number of female detainees held by
Israel in two-decades. Female prisoners are placed in 2 central prisons,
Neve Tresta and Hasharon-Telmond.

17 of these women are mothers, two women, Mervat Taha and Manal
Ghanem, gave birth while in detention and Manal continues to live with
her child, Nour, inside the prison. Mervat was recently released with her
son, Wa'el, now 2 years old has lived his entire life inside the prison.
There are currently eight girls (under age 18) inside Israeli jails in
addition to a number of women who have turned 18 while they were
imprisoned. Israel detains children as young as 12 years old, in blatant
contravention of the internationally accepted designation of any individual
under the age of 18 as a child. Israeli military regulations stipulate that a
child is anyone under the age of 16, whilst Israeli law stipulates this age
to be under 18.

Many Palestinian women prisoners are transferred to Neve Tertza Prison,
one of six sections of Ramleh Prison after their interrogation process.
Here Palestinian female detainees remain detained within the same section
as Israeli criminal female prisoners accused of crimes such as murder,
theft, drug use, and prostitution. Mixing Palestinian prisoners with Israeli
criminal prisoners has created a great deal of tension within the prison,
particularly as political prisoners should be separated from other categories
of prisoners.

The prison administration continues to humiliate Palestinian female prisoners
by forcing them to strip in front of prison guards while their hands are cuffed,
and then to dress before these same guards. The administration conducts
regular searches of prison cells, confiscating personal property and papers.

The prison administration has diligently worked at breaking the unity of the
female detainees by isolating them from the outside world and preventing
family visits. Correspondence to and from the prison is also prohibited, and
newspapers are allowed in the prison but are delayed by a few days. Visits
amongst other prisoners are prevented and daily breaks have been reduced
to half an hour. Palestinian women prisoners at Neve Tertza Prison reported
that their conditions of detention were extremely difficult, with no glass
protecting windows in the cells and insects and vermin found throughout the
prison. Because of the prevention of family visits, prisoners do not have
adequate winter clothing or extra food to supplement the small food portions
they receive in prison.

Some Palestinian female prisoners have been arrested as a means of placing
pressure on their husbands. Asma' Abu el-Hayja, for example, who is 40
years old and is suffering from brain cancer, is being held in an administrative
detention in order to pressure her husband who is also under detention.
Mrs. Ablaa' Saadat was arrested on 21 January 2003 as she travelled as a
Palestinian representative to the World Social Forum in Brazil. Saadat is the
wife of the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine (PFLP). She was give four months administrative detention
following her arrest. She was told by an interrogator that her arrest was
merely a demonstration that 'they' can do whatever they want. She was also
told that if her husband had 'blood on his hands' they would kill her children.

http://www.addameer.org/detention/women.html

>>>>>> You have tried to defend and cover up the most
>>>>>> heinous crimes against humanity,

>
>>>>> Examples?

>
>>>> Mass murder through 'war'

>
>> >Where's your contempt for those who started it? Oh wait, you think the
>> >planes were flown by remote control and it just happened to have some
>> >fellows who'd trained in bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan;

> >
> >You wish to discuss 911? OK. Start by refuting this:
> >http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones#Critics


'In 1973, Jones earned his bachelors degree in physics, magna *** laude,
from Brigham Young University, and his PhD in physics from Vanderbilt
University in 1978. Jones conducted his PhD research at the Stanford Linear
Accelerator Center (from 1974 to 1977), and post-doctoral research at
Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility.

Research interests and background

Jones conducted research at the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
in Arco, Idaho, from 1979 to 1985, where he was a senior engineering
specialist. He was the principal investigator for experimental muon-catalyzed
fusion from 1982 to 1991 for the U.S. Department of Energy, Division of
Advanced Energy Projects. From 1990 to 1993, Jones researched fusion in
condensed matter and deuterium, for the U.S. Department of Energy and
for the Electric Power Research Institute.

Jones has also been a collaborator in several experiments, including
experiments at TRIUMF (Vancouver, British Columbia), The National
High Energy Laboratory, KEK (Tsukuba, Japan), and the Rutherford
Appleton Laboratory at Oxford University.

Jones specializes in Metal-catalyzed fusion, Archaeometry and Solar
energy [2].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

'Here are some of the kinds of considerations that these experts and
scholars find profoundly troubling:

* In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings
have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11,
so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

* The BBC has reported that at least five of the nineteen alleged "hijackers"
have turned up alive and well living in Saudi Arabia, yet according to the
FBI, they were among those killed in the attacks. How is this possible?

* Frank DeMartini, a project manager for the WTC, said the buildings
were designed with load redistribution capabilities to withstand the
impact of airliners, whose effects would be like "puncturing mosquito
netting with a pencil." Yet they completely collapsed. How is this possible?

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?
...
Their own physics research has established that only controlled
demolitions are consistent with the near-gravity speed of fall and virtually
symmetrical collapse of all three of the WTC buildings. While turning
concrete into very fine dust, they fell straight-down into their own footprints.
...'
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/P...30Jan2006.html

>> * Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F,


>> Answer the questions


> I'll address this one irrelevant point,


You'll address ALL of it, psychoid.

> for upon it your conspiracy theory house of cards crumbles.


Like three steel-frame high-rise buildings CRUMBLED?

> Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The temperature

for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design strengths
-- considering even the redundancies built in from sound engineering
practices, something which you're not qualified to discuss since you
flunked out of engineering school - ANOTHER LIE - is far below
2700°F. And fwiw, jet fuel can burn at temperatures higher than your
2700°F mark given the right circumstances (e.g., large volumes of
oxygen -- which was the case on 9/11 given the size of the holes
> made by the planes).


Huge gaping holes? No. Read again what you snipped, neo-con shill.

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?

Below, from the first link you posted, you fool. Didn't you read it? -

'THE FIRE

The fire is the most misunderstood part of the WTC collapse. Even today,
the media report (and many scientists believe) that the steel melted. It is
argued that the jet fuel burns very hot, especially with so much fuel present.
This is not true.

Part of the problem is that people (including engineers) often confuse
temperature and heat. While they are related, they are not the same.
Thermodynamically, the heat contained in a material is related to the
temperature through the heat capacity and the density (or mass).
Temperature is defined as an intensive property, meaning that it does
not vary with the quantity of material, while the heat is an extensive
property, which does vary with the amount of material. One way to
distinguish the two is to note that if a second log is added to the
fireplace, the temperature does not double; it stays roughly the same,
but the size of the fire or the length of time the fire burns, or a
combination of the two, doubles. Thus, the fact that there were
90,000 L of jet fuel on a few floors of the WTC does not mean that
this was an unusually hot fire. The temperature of the fire at the WTC
was not unusual, and it was most definitely not capable of melting steel.
...
In a diffuse flame, the fuel and the oxidant are not mixed before ignition,
but flow together in an uncontrolled manner and combust when the
fuel/oxidant ratios reach values within the flammable range. A fireplace
flame is a diffuse flame burning in air, as was the WTC fire.

Diffuse flames generate the lowest heat intensities of the three flame types.

If the fuel and the oxidant start at ambient temperature, a maximum flame
temperature can be defined. For carbon burning in pure oxygen, the
maximum is 3,200°C; for hydrogen it is 2,750°C. Thus, for virtually any
hydrocarbons, the maximum flame temperature, starting at ambient
temperature and using pure oxygen, is approximately 3,000°C.

This maximum flame temperature is reduced by two-thirds if air is used
rather than pure oxygen. The reason is that every molecule of oxygen
releases the heat of formation of a molecule of carbon monoxide and a
molecule of water. If pure oxygen is used, this heat only needs to heat
two molecules (carbon monoxide and water), while with air, these two
molecules must be heated plus four molecules of nitrogen. Thus, burning
hydrocarbons in air produces only one-third the temperature increase as
burning in pure oxygen because three times as many molecules must be
heated when air is used. The maximum flame temperature increase for
burning hydrocarbons (jet fuel) in air is, thus, about 1,000°C-hardly
sufficient to melt steel at 1,500°C.

But it is very difficult to reach this maximum temperature with a diffuse
flame. There is nothing to ensure that the fuel and air in a diffuse flame
are mixed in the best ratio. Typically, diffuse flames are fuel rich, meaning
that the excess fuel molecules, which are unburned, must also be heated.
It is known that most diffuse fires are fuel rich because blowing on a
campfire or using a blacksmith's bellows increases the rate of combustion
by adding more oxygen. This fuel-rich diffuse flame can drop the
temperature by up to a factor of two again. This is why the temperatures
in a residential fire are usually in the 500°C to 650°C range.2,3 It is known
that the WTC fire was a fuel-rich, diffuse flame as evidenced by the
copious black smoke. Soot is generated by incompletely burned fuel;
hence, the WTC fire was fuel rich-hardly surprising with 90,000 L of
jet fuel available. Factors such as flame volume and quantity of soot
decrease the radiative heat loss in the fire, moving the temperature closer
to the maximum of 1,000°C. However, it is highly unlikely that the steel
at the WTC experienced temperatures above the 750-800°C range. All
reports that the steel melted at 1,500°C are using imprecise terminology
at best.
...
It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses
about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in
this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient,
by itself, to explain the WTC collapse. It was noted above that the wind
load controlled the design allowables. The WTC, on this low-wind day,
was likely not stressed more than a third of the design allowable, which
is roughly one-fifth of the yield strength of the steel. Even with its strength
halved, the steel could still support two to three times the stresses imposed
by a 650°C fire.

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html

Try again, dumbass, and address ALL of it this time.




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"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:12:55 +0100, "pearl" > wrote:
> >"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> >>
> >> And here's a Google Maps link showing the route from their

> >
> >Go to Google Groups and REMOVE that message immediately!
> >
> >We are dealing with 'people' with NO conscience here, Derek,
> >and no - I'm not talking about Karen. You're a dupe to believe
> >and side with these loathsome ANTI psychopaths. DDDD -
> >Discredit, Divide, Defeat, Destroy. You play into their hands.


> I have no option but to act against this potential menace to
> children who seeks out positions where she can come
> into close contact with them.


You could do what you've previously done, but that ain't on.

I'm asking you please to REMOVE those messages containing
personal details.






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On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:55:06 +0100, "pearl" > wrote:

>I'm asking you please to REMOVE those messages containing
>personal details.


Done.
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"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> On Thu, 10 Aug 2006 10:55:06 +0100, "pearl" > wrote:
>
> >I'm asking you please to REMOVE those messages containing
> >personal details.

>
> Done.


Thank you VERY MUCH.


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Default Where's everybody gone?

"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...

> pearl wrote:
>
> > > > <...>
> > > >
> > > >>Always question 'experts'.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Especially reflexologists, herbalists, naturopaths, etc.
> > >
> > > Because they have no expertise at all but pretend to have.

> >
> > Another 'expert'. LOL!!!

>
> I'm just a low-life liar. Pay no attention to me, I talk shit.


What's good for the goose...




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"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message . net...
> pearl wrote:
> > "chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> >
> > pearl wrote:
> >
> >
> >>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
> >>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
> >>
> >>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
> >>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
> >>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
> >>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> >>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
> >>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
> >>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.

> >
> >
> > 'The German Brotherhood
> >
> > [snip evidence I can't address]

>
> There is no connection between any "German Brotherhood"
> <guffaw> and Yale's Skull and Bones.


'Rosenbaum discovered documents which detailed the origins of Bones back
to Germany. These documents stated, "Bones is a chapter of a corps of a
German University..." The document described at length its relationship with
this German Secret Society (the Thule Society) which lead to the founding
of the Skull and Bones in 1832.'
http://web.archive.org/web/200410120.../nwothule.html

> Skull and Bones members are not referred to as "adepts".


a·dept (?-dept')
adj.
Very skilled.
http://www.answers.com/adept&r=67

> I'm stupid semi-literate brain-damaged prick.


'Hitler's impotency had a deep psychological foundation. He knew
sexual fulfillment through the extremes of sadism and masochism... "
(Ravenscroft, p. 155, 173).

> >>>>Iranian-funded missiles from
> >>>>Hezbollah up their asses and forgive and forget about Shalit and anyone
> >>>>else Hamas and Hezbollah want to kidnap and kill.
> >>>
> >>>You'd like us to forget about the the murders in Gaza
> >>
> >>Which ones? The ones in retaliation for suicide bombings? I don't
> >>consider targeting buildings where explosive vests or rockets are being
> >>made to constitute murder.

> >
> >
> > Friday, 9 June 2006, 18:28 GMT 19:28 UK
> >
> > Palestinians killed on Gaza beach
> >
> > [snip evidence of an unprovoked massacre]

>
> Irrelevant


Fool.

> >>>and the many thousands
> >>>of Palestinians rotting away in Israeli prisons - including women and children.
> >>
> >>You say "children," I say "juveniles." Why are they imprisoned or in
> >>camps? Because they've presented a danger to [you won't say "other
> >>children" so I'll say] Israeli soldiers or Israeli citizens (Arab
> >>Christians and Jews alike). Same for women who are known associates of
> >>terrorists.

> >
> >
> > 'Former Israel Prime Minster, Yitzhak Rabin,
> > [snip evidence of criminal theft, dispossession and mass murder]
> >
> >>>>>>>You have tried to defend and cover up the most
> >>>>>>>heinous crimes against humanity,
> >>
> >>>>>>Examples?
> >>
> >>>>>Mass murder through 'war'
> >>
> >>>>Where's your contempt for those who started it? Oh wait, you think the
> >>>>planes were flown by remote control and it just happened to have some
> >>>>fellows who'd trained in bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan;
> >>>
> >>>You wish to discuss 911? OK. Start by refuting this:
> >>>http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html

> >
> >
> >>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones#Critics

> >
> >
> > 'In 1973, Jones
> >
> >[snip evidence of the impeccable credentials of a top scientist]


So, let's see- you support mass murder, treason and Satanic cults.

That figures.




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"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> > > <...>
> > > > Always question 'experts'.
> > >
> > > Especially reflexologists, herbalists, naturopaths, etc.

> >
> > You're an 'expert' on it all, I suppose. LOL!

>
> At least I know how to eat shit.


And spew it back out again, you irresponsible freak.


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"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message .net...

> >>Answer the questions


> It absolutely is necessary that I try to discredit this poster now.


Treasonous mass murder supporting coward.


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"Leif Erikson" > wrote in message k.net...

> Foot massage makes people feel better, and that's not
> to be discounted, but it's not to be understated,
> either. Reflexology is a highly effective therapy.


I doubt it would help you in your desperate condition though.

Syphilis wasn't it? Your father should have been more careful.


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"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> OBSERVATIONS...


"Dutch" > wrote in message ...
...
Violence/rape by definition causes harm, where is the harm in ****ing a sheep?

09 August 2006 19:56 GMT

> Thus, sticking with "the side" appears to be more important to its members

than either the facts of the issues at hand or the sanity or the normalcy of others
on "the side." Given the whole lot of you, I think it's very fair when people judge
> others by the company they keep.


"You, you stupid semi-literate dog-eating ****ing
cocksucker.

See if you can explain, little dog-eating cocksucking
arrogant prickcheese,

Your task, little ****ing dog-eater,

Shut your ****ing ignorant yap

****witted, ignorant, dumb-as-a-bag-of-hammers theorizing."

Your buddy-pal ball, chumpo. Aren't you proud?




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pearl wrote:

> "Derek" > wrote in message ...
>
>>And here's a Google Maps link showing the route from their

>
>
> Go to Google Groups and REMOVE that message immediately!


Why should he?

> We are dealing with 'people' with NO conscience here, Derek,


Karen and Sylvia have NO conscience. Karen is impenitent about helping
that poor cockatiel get off. Your complaints about that fell on deaf
ears -- she had ready excuses for her aberrant behavior.

> and no - I'm not talking about Karen.


Yes, you are.

> You're a dupe to believe
> and side with these loathsome ANTI psychopaths.


The only clinical psychopath here is on your side. You're not a mental
health expert capable of diagnosing strangers over the internet; you rub
feet for a living.

> DDDD -
> Discredit, Divide, Defeat, Destroy. You play into their hands.


IOW, I was spot on with this sub-thread about how "the side" is more
important than the facts, the truth, or anything else worth defending.


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pearl wrote:

>>>>>>>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
>>>>>>>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
>>>>>>>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
>>>>>>>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
>>>>>>>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
>>>>>>>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
>>>>>>>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
>>>>>>>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.
>>>>>>
>>>>><...>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Here you see the group of priests with torches...
>>>>>
>>>>>It's silly pageantry, that's all.
>>>>
>>>>Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the questions.
>>>
>>>I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for WASPs.

>>
>>The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where they mock
>>the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.
>>
>>
>>>No, it isn't.

>>
>>Yes, it is.

>
>
> No, it isn't.


Yes, it is.

> Your boy shrub is a member of a Satanic cult that meets at B-G.


He's a member of Tarrytown United Methodist.

<....>
> In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world had now
> entered into a New World Order.


Why the capital letters? And what do you find so grievous about the
following from that speech (not announcement)?

We stand today at a unique and extraordinary moment. The crisis
in the Persian Gulf, as grave as it is, also offers a rare
opportunity to move toward an historic period of cooperation.
Out of these troubled times, our fifth objective -- a new world
order -- can emerge: a new era -- freer from the threat of
terror, stronger in the pursuit of justice, and more secure in
the quest for peace. An era in which the nations of the world,
East and West, North and South, can prosper and live in harmony.
A hundred generations have searched for this elusive path to
peace, while a thousand wars raged across the span of human
endeavor. Today that new world is struggling to be born, a world
quite different from the one we've known. A world where the rule
of law supplants the rule of the jungle. A world in which
nations recognize the shared responsibility for freedom and
justice. A world where the strong respect the rights of the
weak.

What do you find objectionable about cooperation, a world without
terror, a world of justice, a prospering world, a harmonious world, a
world where war is less common, a world of freedom?

And with respect to the phrase, it's been part of our nation for some
time. Albeit in Latin: "Novus Ordo Seclorum" is printed on our currency.

> Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
> American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society.


Non sequitur.

<...>
> It is known that structural steel begins to soften around 425°C and loses
> about half of its strength at 650°C.4 This is why steel is stress relieved in
> this temperature range. But even a 50% loss of strength is still insufficient,
> by itself, to explain the WTC collapse.


Yes, it is. Steel doesn't have to actually MELT to weaken. The
temperature for weakening it sufficiently enough to compromise design
strengths -- considering even the redundancies built in from sound
engineering practices, something which you're not qualified to discuss
since you flunked out of engineering school -- is far below 2700°F. And
fwiw, jet fuel can burn at temperatures higher than your 2700°F mark
given the right circumstances (e.g., large volumes of oxygen -- which
was the case on 9/11 given the size of the holes made by the planes).

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM...agar-0112.html
http://www.keytosteel.com/default.as...Article&NM=102
http://www.key-to-steel.com/default....kArticle&NM=59
http://tinyurl.com/enmw2
Etc.

Do you look good in your little tinfoil hat?
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pearl wrote:

>>>I'm asking you please to REMOVE those messages containing
>>>personal details.

>>
>>Done.

>
> Thank you VERY MUCH.


They're still here. Heh.
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"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> > "Derek" > wrote in message ...
> >
> >>And here's a Google Maps link showing the route from their

> >
> >
> > Go to Google Groups and REMOVE that message immediately!

>
> Why should he?
>
> > We are dealing with 'people' with NO conscience here, Derek,

>
> Yes, that's true. I have no conscience. I condone murder.


You do indeed.




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Default Where's everybody gone?

pearl wrote:

>I'm just a low-life liar.


Most people realize this the moment they learn that you're a
reflexologist who scams sick old people.

> Pay no attention to me,


We don't. Your presence here is one of great amusement, though: inner
earth beings, zero point, chemtrails, conspiracy theories. It's hard to
take someone serious when she posts messages like these:

http://tinyurl.com/h0br
http://tinyurl.com/h0bl
http://tinyurl.com/v5p8
http://tinyurl.com/v5pf
http://tinyurl.com/mh5w
http://tinyurl.com/mh6h
http://tinyurl.com/mh6r
http://tinyurl.com/mh71
http://tinyurl.com/mh7a
http://tinyurl.com/mh7j
http://tinyurl.com/mh7p
http://tinyurl.com/v5jj
http://tinyurl.com/v5kd
http://tinyurl.com/v5l6
http://tinyurl.com/v5ft
http://tinyurl.com/v5fj
http://tinyurl.com/v5fp
http://tinyurl.com/v5ft
http://tinyurl.com/v5ga
http://tinyurl.com/v5gc
http://tinyurl.com/v5i2
http://tinyurl.com/v5gk
http://tinyurl.com/v5h1
http://tinyurl.com/v5h9
http://tinyurl.com/n9r59

> I talk shit.


We know you do, Les, but that's one of the drawbacks to having flunked
out of engineering school.
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Default an observation about "the side"

pearl lost her braincell:

<snip>
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