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Default Where's everybody gone?

On 8 Aug 2006 18:24:02 -0700, wrote:
>Derek wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 09:35:57 -0600, Glorfindel > wrote:
>>
>> >Rupert was trying to be polite in phrasing his discussion with you,
>> >and he certainly did not lie or misrepresent anything about your
>> >views.

>>
>> I've shown that he has lied while trying misrepresent my
>> position, but of course you had to snip the evidence of
>> that all away.

>
>You have shown no such thing


Says you after snipping the evidence away, which is exactly what Karen
tried to do in this thread before you.

<restore>
>> >> >>>What I'm not clear on is why the issue of "respectful treatment" arises
>> >> >>>in a sexual context and no other.
>> >> >
>> >> >> Who said it doesn't? The issue of "respectful treatment" arises
>> >> >> in many areas as well in a sexual context.
>> >> >
>> >> >True
>> >>
>> >> Then why did Rupert try to imply that "the issue of "respectful
>> >> treatment" arises in a sexual context and no other."?
>> >
>> >I didn't imply that.

>>
>> Look again at your statement at the top of this post; "What I'm not
>> clear on is why the issue of "respectful treatment" arises in a sexual
>> context and no other." You do more than imply that "the issue of
>> "respectful treatment" arises in a sexual context and no other", you
>> declare it and then go on to say that your not clear on why.


Well, liar?

>> >It was my attempt at interpreting your position.

>>
>> No, it was your attempt at MISinterpreting my position.

>
>I won't stand for being told I'm deliberately misinterpreting your
>position.


You have no option but to, liar, because it's clear that you are
trying to misinterpret my position so you can knock that false
position down easily and then declare a defeat over my real
position.

>Accept my good faith or else stop talking to me.


Liars don't act in good faith, Rupe.

>> I rejected
>> your claim by replying, "Who said it doesn't? The issue of "respectful
>> treatment" arises in many areas as well in a sexual context."

>
>It wasn't a claim, it was a question.


No, it wasn't a question;

"What I'm not clear on is *why* the issue of "respectful treatment"
arises in a sexual context and no other."

That sentence is not a question. It's a statement containing two facts;
the fact that "the issue of respectful treatment arises in a sexual
content and no other", and the fact that you're not clear on why "the
issue of respectful treatment arises in a sexual content and no other."

Here's another example following the same line;

"What I'm not clear on is *why* there are only 7 days in a week."

This sentence is not a question. It's a statement containing two
facts; the fact that there are only 7 days in a week, and the fact
that you're not clear on the fact that there are only 7 days in a week.

Your statement wasn't a question, so why lie?
<end restore>

> moron.


Try to be civil.

>If you want to know what I intended to say you'll have to ask me.


I already know what you intended. You tried to build a straw
man, but I burned it to the ground before you could finish.
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"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...

> pearl correctly wrote:
>
> > > I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
> > > Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
> > > he was quite old when I adopted him, and he was definitely oriented
> > > toward humans. Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
> > > for him by denying him this release, when it did him no harm, and it
> > > did me no harm?

> >
> > Good grief, Karen Winter! The OBVIOUS and CORRECT thing to
> > do would have been to adopt a FEMALE cockatiel! *That* would
> > have been the *respectful* thing to do.

>
> Since when has Karen been respectful of anyone or anything?


Since always. I think she was/is mistaken, but we're all learning.

> > Wrongly thinking that it was
> > just ok to enable the aberrant behaviour resulted in him missing out,

>
> Yeah, but she got some...


How very respectful of you .. not. A fine example you are .. not!

> > not only the opportunity to engage in their natural courtship, etc., but
> > every other facet of meaningful association with one of his own kind!

>
> That's irrelevant to a navel-gazing perv like Karen.


It is certainly irrelevant to a factory 'farming' supporter like you.




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On 8 Aug 2006 18:18:40 -0700, wrote:
>Derek wrote:
>> On 7 Aug 2006 17:50:53 -0700, "Rupert" > wrote:
>> >Derek wrote:
>> >> On 6 Aug 2006 18:11:19 -0700, "Rupert" > wrote:
>> >> >Derek wrote:
>> >> >> On 5 Aug 2006 20:52:49 -0700,
wrote:
>> >> >> >Derek wrote:
>> >> >> >> On 5 Aug 2006 16:35:04 -0700, "Rupert" > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >Derek wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> On Sat, 05 Aug 2006 14:28:57 -0600, Glorfindel > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >> >Derek wrote:
>> >> [..]
>> >> >> >> >> >> The rights view answers these questions as follows. In cases
>> >> >> >> >> >> in which innocent people are murdered painlessly, their right
>> >> >> >> >> >> to be treated with respect is violated; that is what makes their
>> >> >> >> >> >> murder wrong. In cases in which the victims suffer greatly, the
>> >> >> >> >> >> fundamental wrong is the same: a lack of respect, only in these
>> >> >> >> >> >> cases the wrong done is compounded by how much the victims
>> >> >> >> >> >> suffer. The suffering and other harms people are made to endure
>> >> >> >> >> >> at the hands of those who violate their rights is a lamentable,
>> >> >> >> >> >> sometimes an unspeakable tragic feature of the world. Still,
>> >> >> >> >> >> according to the rights view, this suffering and these other harms
>> >> >> >> >> >> occur ** as a consequence** of treating individuals with a lack
>> >> >> >> >> >> of respect: as such, as bad as they are, and as much as we would
>> >> >> >> >> >> wish them away, the suffering and other harms are not themselves
>> >> >> >> >> >> the fundamental wrong."
>> >> >> >> >> >> Tom Regan. The animal Rights Debate. Page198-199
>> >> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> >> As we can see, "The rights view", according to Tom Regan, a
>> >> >> >> >> >> leading animal rights advocate and author on the subject, sees
>> >> >> >> >> >> harms only as a consequence of the real wrong: lack of respect,
>> >> >> >> >> >> and not the fundamental wrong at all. I agree with him.
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> >And so do I, but he is not saying what you think he is saying here.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> He's saying precisely what I say he's saying. Regan sees harms
>> >> >> >> >> as a consequence of the fundamental wrong, so when you imply
>> >> >> >> >> that harms are what make rights violations, and that no harm
>> >> >> >> >> means no rights have been violated, you have it all wrong. You
>> >> >> >> >> cannot assert that because an animal or child suffers no harm
>> >> >> >> >> when having sex with moral agents its right to their respectful
>> >> >> >> >> treatment hasn't been violated. On the contrary. You may not
>> >> >> >> >> trespass where meaningful consent is NOT given.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >What I'm not clear on is why the issue of "respectful treatment" arises
>> >> >> >> >in a sexual context and no other.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> Who said it doesn't? The issue of "respectful treatment" arises
>> >> >> >> in many areas as well in a sexual context.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >"The beliefs of the Sambia and Etoro tribes in New Guinea include the
>> >> >> >following: for adult males the presence in their bodies, in the
>> >> >> >testicles, of semen is essential for the existence and maintenance of
>> >> >> >their masculinity; heterosexual intercourse therefore involves the
>> >> >> >termporary loss of something important (so women are dangerous); the
>> >> >> >bodies of young boys do not yet internally produce, and so they do not
>> >> >> >yet have, this ingredient; hence young boys must acquire semen from an
>> >> >> >external source in order to develop into masculine, adult males. The
>> >> >> >Sambia and the Etoro have a practice that derives from these beliefs,
>> >> >> >in which young boys, starting around the age of seven to ten and
>> >> >> >lasting until puberty, manipulate and fellate older males to orgasm and
>> >> >> >ingest the ejaculate; this "fellatio insemination" ideally occurs
>> >> >> >daily. The masculinity of the donors thereby passes to the
>> >> >> >beneficiaries. Postpubertally, the boys become the men who are sucked
>> >> >> >and who provide the masculinizing fluid to younger boys; being fellated
>> >> >> >is the staple of their sexual lives, since they eschew women until
>> >> >> >marriage." (Alan Soble, "Sexual Investigations").
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Presumably, you think this is incompatible with respectful treatment.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yes, I most certainly do, and it does nothing to support your above
>> >> >> claim to which I responded where you wrote, "What I'm not clear
>> >> >> on is why the issue of "respectful treatment" arises in a sexual
>> >> >> context and no other."
>> >> >
>> >> >That's not a claim. It's a question.
>> >>
>> >> Then where is the question mark indicating that it was a question?
>> >
>> >See that word "why"? That usually indicates a question.

>>
>> Yes, and it also indicates 2 statements or claims made in a single
>> sentence;
>>
>> 1) What I'm not clear on is *why* there are only 7 days in a week.
>> This sentence is not a question. It's a statement containing two
>> facts; the fact that there are only 7 days in a week, and the fact
>> that you're not clear on the fact that there are only 7 days in a week.
>>
>> 2) "What I'm not clear on is *why* the issue of "respectful treatment"
>> arises in a sexual context and no other."
>> Again, this sentence is not a question. It's a statement containing two
>> facts; the fact that "the issue of respectful treatment arises in a sexual
>> content and no other", and the fact that you're not clear on why "the
>> issue of respectful treatment arises in a sexual content and no other."
>>
>> Your statement wasn't a question, so why lie?

>
>Perhaps it would have been clearer if I'd said "What I'm not clear on
>is why you think the issue of 'respectful treatment' arises in a sexual
>context and no other."


No, because that sentence still isn't a question, but rather another
statement containing two facts which you believe to be true; that
"I think the issue of respectful treatment arises in a sexual context
and no other." and that you're not clear on why "I think the issue
of respectful treatment arises in a sexual context and no other."

I've made it abundantly clear from the start that I don't believe the
issue of respectful treatment arises in a sexual context and no other,
so when you insist that I do in this way, even after I've tried to
correct you, I can only assume that you're trying to intentionally
misrepresent my position to then knock that flawed position down
and declare a defeat over my real position, and I'm not going to
allow you to do that.

>I thought you were a normal speaker of English


I am, and that's how I manage to thwart your cunning little efforts
at misrepresenting my clear position.

>I'll try to be more careful in future.


It would be in YOUR best interest if you did.

>Apologize for accusing me of lying and stop doing it.


How can I while you continue to misrepresent my position and
then claim that your misrepresentation was but a question in
regards to it rather than a fact about it after I caught you out?
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On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 22:46:34 GMT, chico chupacabra > wrote:
>Derek > wrote:
>
>> Karen Winter, pro-bestiality zealot, wrote:
>>
>> >I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.

>>
>> That's disgusting, but not surprising when we consider the
>> fact that you're a pervert.
>>
>> >Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
>> >he was quite old when I adopted him,

>>
>> If he was able to masturbate on your hand I don't see why
>> you couldn't have provided him an appropriate mate.

>
>Because Sylvia was tied up. Literally.


.... "masturbating in a dentist's chair, stimulated to orgasm
by the smell of rotting food scraped from under her
gums by the dental hygienist."
http://tinyurl.com/k25zg

Whatever happened to that post she wrote? I can't find it.

>> >and he was definitely oriented toward humans.

>>
>> No, you're just presuming he was, just like you presumed
>> those 7 year old boys who were made to such the dicks
>> of their elders every day gave meaningful consent and
>> enjoyed it.
>>
>> "Sambia and the Etoro have a practice that derives from
>> these beliefs, in which young boys, starting around the
>> age of seven to ten and lasting until puberty, manipulate
>> and fellate older males to orgasm and ingest the ejaculate;
>> this "fellatio insemination" ideally occurs daily. The masculinity
>> of the donors thereby passes to the beneficiaries."
>>
>> So, these elders were so sincere in their belief that their semen
>> gave young boys masculinity that it gave them a hard on, eh?
>> Why didn't they just jerk off into a bowl, perv?
>>
>> >Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
>> >for him by denying him this release,

>>
>> Exactly! Why didn't you get the poor thing a mate or just
>> leave him alone to do what it wants to do on something
>> else like a toy, perv?
>>
>> >when it did him no harm, and it did me no harm?

>>
>> It debased both you and the bird, you stupid bitch.

>
>Her whole life sounds as if it revolves around debauchery and self-defilement.


I'm certain of it. S&M, zoophilia, paedophilia - you name it and
she's all for it because she likes debasing herself and others.
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wrote:

> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>
>>>chico chupacabra wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Karen Winter, former house-whore of the Society for Creative
>>>>Anachronisms commune, wrote:
>>>>
>>>><...>
>>>>
>>>>>>>You keep confirming the fact that you're pro-bestiality.
>>>>>
>>>>>>No. You just keep intentionally mis-interpreting what I'm saying.
>>>>>
>>>>>*Intentionally* is the key word.
>>>>
>>>>No, Karen. Lesley has repeatedly equivocated on the issue. She's written
>>>>that it's a perversion but should be tolerated; she's written that it's
>>>>okay as long as it doesn't involve conditioning or coercion and then
>>>>failed to respond appropriately when asked when it does NOT involve
>>>>conditioning or coercion; she's written that it's nobody else's business
>>>>if someone ****s an animal even though she finds it patently offensive
>>>>if someone eats an animal.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>He knows you condemn it;
>>>>
>>>>One doesn't condone what one condemns; the two are mutually exclusive.
>>>>Lesley condones bestiality. She doesn't condemn it. She has only offered
>>>>qualified objections to it while firmly insisting that it be legal.
>>>>
>>>><...>
>>>>
>>>>>Having been a vegetarian for over 20 years,
>>>>
>>>>You have not been. Your depraved FAS-defective sidekick Sylvia wrote
>>>>that you had chiles rellenos when you returned to Santa Fe.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I would gag at the thought of eating any meat,
>>>>
>>>>You should gag at the thought of munching that old bat's carpet.
>>>>

>
>
> Her sexual activities are none of your business,


Then tell her to keep it all in her closet. She's been disgustingly
candid about her sexual preferences and practices, everything from S&M
to NAMBLA to bestiality. And now we know she's engaged in the latter
with a poor cockatiel.

> you disgusting homophobe.


Nothing I wrote was "homophobic." That's your pathetic PC term which
ignores its core meaing, "fear of oneself," to impugn others with whom,
you disagree because you're either unwilling or unable to discuss the
merits of the arguments before you.

>>>>>even roadkill.
>>>>
>>>>Even? *Especially* roadkill.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>But I would not want
>>>>>to pass a law forbidding people to eat roadkill
>>>>
>>>>What about those who want to eat normal meat? Why do you object to that
>>>>in a manner similar to my objections to bestiality and pedophilia,
>>>>Karen? What is it about eating meat or wearing leather or fur that's
>>>>less noble than sexually assaulting a minor or a defenseless animal?
>>>
>>>
>>>Surely you can not be so stupid as to be unaware of what she thinks the
>>>morally relevant difference is.

>>
>>I want her to answer the questions and explain why she finds it morally
>>acceptable for someone to sexually abuse an animal but not to eat it.
>>Feel free to give it a stab yourself, numbnuts.

>
> Not if that's going to be your level of courtesy.


Here's my level of courtesy to you, you prating windbag: **** yourself
with a broken bottle.

> As I say,


I know what you say, "I cannot answer ____ [fill in the blank with Mr
Erikson, Mr Dutch, Mr Nash, et al] so I'll demand civility instead." ****.

> I really
> cannot comprehend how you could fail to grasp what her answer would be.


I want to know why she finds it morally acceptable to jack off a
cockatiel -- repeatedly, no doubt -- but offensive to eat a small bite
of a vegetable dish that contains a tiny piece of bacon for flavoring.

> I will explain it to you if you're prepared to be civil.


Here's all the civility you deserve, prat:
*extending middle finger and waving it*

Answer the question and stop being such a drama queen.


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Derek wrote:
> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 22:46:34 GMT, chico chupacabra > wrote:
>
>>Derek > wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Karen Winter, pro-bestiality zealot, wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
>>>
>>>That's disgusting, but not surprising when we consider the
>>>fact that you're a pervert.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
>>>>he was quite old when I adopted him,
>>>
>>>If he was able to masturbate on your hand I don't see why
>>>you couldn't have provided him an appropriate mate.

>>
>>Because Sylvia was tied up. Literally.

>
>
> ... "masturbating in a dentist's chair, stimulated to orgasm
> by the smell of rotting food scraped from under her
> gums by the dental hygienist."
> http://tinyurl.com/k25zg
>
> Whatever happened to that post she wrote? I can't find it.


Here it is:
----------------------------------------
I spent last Monday sprawled in a dental hygienist's lair getting my
roots planed! Root Planing is the vicious big sister to a simple tartar
scrape! Anyway, Ilsa, She wolf Of The Dental Couch was digging and
gouging away with her stainless steel Implements Of bloody Death going a
full eight of an inch under my gumline all the way around and digging
out calcified gobbets of ancient toothsmeg. "You haven't ever had a
root planing before, have you?" she asked. To my negative reply, she
said "What I'm getting off your roots and tooth structures has been in
there for at least three, maybe five to ten years!

*SCHWINNNGGG!" Forget the Mile High Club, I may be one of the first to
furtively wank on a dental chair!


Periodically, she would pause in her bloody attentions to wipe the hook
or recurved blades on the little paper napkin they oh-so-cunningly drape
about the victim's neck. When she went to find some new torture object I
would carefully lift that corner of the paper to inhale the fetid crusts
caught on its fibrous surface!

Ahhhh, what bliss! This calcined nugget perhaps the remains of that
garlic laced pizza I had at the *** Pride Festival some years back. That
crunchy gem could have started life as cheese from an enchilada eaten in
New Mexico. I'd give myself a quicl three finger salute (couldn't be
sure when she'd slip back in! Arrgh!) Then she would return and I would
go back to being all polite and normal. After the torture session was
over, I politely asked her if I could keep the napkin. Bemused, she said
I could. After paying the bill, I nipped into the lav for a lurvely
wank with the remains of five to ten years worth of tooth smeg! The
SMELL alone was almost enough...

Swan - http://tinyurl.com/n9c3e
------------------------
Also found this one:

No problem, Sweetheart! first off I start by tying you to my dentist's
chair. Nice and tight. then I remove your clothing. Don't bother to
try to get up for that little option, this flame thrower/welding torch
will take all that fiber and shit off in no time and with pinpoint
control on the acetylene torch I can even leave a layer of skin on. Now
I will tie your legs apart and tease that sweet klittle clit into a nice
mimi-erection so it *just* peeks outta those cute lil lips of yours.

As someone just said on here, I believe, that's why women have two sets
of lips: so they can **** and moan at the same time. Now I will take
some fresh rawhide cording and soak it in brine. tie a cute little knot
around that clit and then gently heat the whole affair with the torch.
Gently, we don't want to burn the leather.

the rawhide does what rawhide will, and tightenes down nicely! At those
pressures, if we aren't careful, it'll sever that little clit at the
base, so we have to take this slow and easy. Do stop screaming, I
haven't even thought of torturing your nipples or any of the other
delightful places I usually enjoy playing with so much! what's that?
Darlin' your crying is distoring your words. What? Redhead joke? Oh, but
that's the POINT! Yes this IS a joke. I', raising the chair a bit so
you can look down at your ****. See that sweet little clitty, turgid,
swollen and dark in agony trapped in the drying rawhide? Isn't that the
REDDEST head you've EVER seen?

Now stay put while Unca Swan goes and gets his scissors and camera.

Swan

Psi Corps

Aleways willing to oblige a lady.

http://tinyurl.com/kn3mp
-----------------------------------

>>>>and he was definitely oriented toward humans.
>>>
>>>No, you're just presuming he was, just like you presumed
>>>those 7 year old boys who were made to such the dicks
>>>of their elders every day gave meaningful consent and
>>>enjoyed it.
>>>
>>> "Sambia and the Etoro have a practice that derives from
>>> these beliefs, in which young boys, starting around the
>>> age of seven to ten and lasting until puberty, manipulate
>>> and fellate older males to orgasm and ingest the ejaculate;
>>> this "fellatio insemination" ideally occurs daily. The masculinity
>>> of the donors thereby passes to the beneficiaries."
>>>
>>>So, these elders were so sincere in their belief that their semen
>>>gave young boys masculinity that it gave them a hard on, eh?
>>>Why didn't they just jerk off into a bowl, perv?
>>>
>>>
>>>>Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
>>>>for him by denying him this release,
>>>
>>>Exactly! Why didn't you get the poor thing a mate or just
>>>leave him alone to do what it wants to do on something
>>>else like a toy, perv?
>>>
>>>
>>>>when it did him no harm, and it did me no harm?
>>>
>>>It debased both you and the bird, you stupid bitch.

>>
>>Her whole life sounds as if it revolves around debauchery and self-defilement.

>
>
> I'm certain of it. S&M, zoophilia, paedophilia - you name it and
> she's all for it because she likes debasing herself and others.

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rupertmccallum, prating windbag, wrote:

> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
>>Rupert wrote:
>>
>>
>>>chico chupacabra wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Rupert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>chico chupacabra wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Karen Winter, ******* schismatic and pro-bestiality "anglo catholic"
>>>>>>sectarian, disingenuously wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I've been thinking about this, as you know. Comments follow.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I very much appreciate and respect your willingness to think
>>>>>>>about the arguments which both sides ( or all sides) of an
>>>>>>>issue present. I respect ( ) your view, even if it does
>>>>>>>not agree with mine, because it is intellectually honest and
>>>>>>>reasoned.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>But Messrs Nash's and Erikson's aren't?
>>>>>
>>>>>Erikson has actually contributed something intellectually worthwhile to
>>>>>the debate? I must have missed it.
>>>>
>>>>You did, dumbass.
>>>
>>>Point me to it then.

>>
>>Find it yourself.
>>
>>
>>>And don't insult me,

>>
>>Why not?

>
> If you want to be childish and pathetic, go ahead.


You have a big headstart with your childish, "Apologize now or I won't
reply anymore," followed by 20+ more replies making your childish demands.

>>>you obnoxious asshole.

>>
>>Silly ****.
>>
>>
>>>Having
>>>missed a post (if that's what I've done) is not evidence of stupidity.

>>
>>Debatable, especially since Mr Erikson, whom I thought you were supposed
>>to be ignoring, is your better.

>
> That is absolutely hysterical.


Hysterical? Not sure about that, because in a way it's sad that you're
acting like a small child with your "apologize now" tantrums.

> Only someone on the same level as Mr.
> Erikson, such as yourself, could think that. Your opinion, like all
> your contributions to this thread, is absolutely worthless.


Yet you find the time to make the same inane demands of me that you've
made to others. Why is it not beneath you to respond to those whose
opinions you neither appreciate nor respect?

That, Rupie, tells us an awful lot about you. What does it tell *you*?
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On Wed, 09 Aug 2006 12:11:54 GMT, chico chupacabra > wrote:
>Derek wrote:
>> On Tue, 08 Aug 2006 22:46:34 GMT, chico chupacabra > wrote:
>>>Derek > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Karen Winter, pro-bestiality zealot, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
>>>>
>>>>That's disgusting, but not surprising when we consider the
>>>>fact that you're a pervert.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
>>>>>he was quite old when I adopted him,
>>>>
>>>>If he was able to masturbate on your hand I don't see why
>>>>you couldn't have provided him an appropriate mate.
>>>
>>>Because Sylvia was tied up. Literally.

>>
>> ... "masturbating in a dentist's chair, stimulated to orgasm
>> by the smell of rotting food scraped from under her
>> gums by the dental hygienist."
>> http://tinyurl.com/k25zg
>>
>> Whatever happened to that post she wrote? I can't find it.

>
>Here it is:
>----------------------------------------
>I spent last Monday sprawled in a dental hygienist's lair getting my
>roots planed! Root Planing is the vicious big sister to a simple tartar
>scrape! Anyway, Ilsa, She wolf Of The Dental Couch was digging and
>gouging away with her stainless steel Implements Of bloody Death going a
>full eight of an inch under my gumline all the way around and digging
>out calcified gobbets of ancient toothsmeg. "You haven't ever had a
>root planing before, have you?" she asked. To my negative reply, she
>said "What I'm getting off your roots and tooth structures has been in
>there for at least three, maybe five to ten years!
>
>*SCHWINNNGGG!" Forget the Mile High Club, I may be one of the first to
>furtively wank on a dental chair!
>
>
> Periodically, she would pause in her bloody attentions to wipe the hook
>or recurved blades on the little paper napkin they oh-so-cunningly drape
>about the victim's neck. When she went to find some new torture object I
>would carefully lift that corner of the paper to inhale the fetid crusts
>caught on its fibrous surface!
>
>Ahhhh, what bliss! This calcined nugget perhaps the remains of that
>garlic laced pizza I had at the *** Pride Festival some years back. That
>crunchy gem could have started life as cheese from an enchilada eaten in
>New Mexico. I'd give myself a quicl three finger salute (couldn't be
>sure when she'd slip back in! Arrgh!) Then she would return and I would
>go back to being all polite and normal. After the torture session was
>over, I politely asked her if I could keep the napkin. Bemused, she said
>I could. After paying the bill, I nipped into the lav for a lurvely
>wank with the remains of five to ten years worth of tooth smeg! The
>SMELL alone was almost enough...
>
>Swan - http://tinyurl.com/n9c3e
>------------------------
>Also found this one:
>
>No problem, Sweetheart! first off I start by tying you to my dentist's
>chair. Nice and tight. then I remove your clothing. Don't bother to
>try to get up for that little option, this flame thrower/welding torch
>will take all that fiber and shit off in no time and with pinpoint
>control on the acetylene torch I can even leave a layer of skin on. Now
>I will tie your legs apart and tease that sweet klittle clit into a nice
>mimi-erection so it *just* peeks outta those cute lil lips of yours.
>
>As someone just said on here, I believe, that's why women have two sets
>of lips: so they can **** and moan at the same time. Now I will take
>some fresh rawhide cording and soak it in brine. tie a cute little knot
>around that clit and then gently heat the whole affair with the torch.
>Gently, we don't want to burn the leather.
>
>the rawhide does what rawhide will, and tightenes down nicely! At those
>pressures, if we aren't careful, it'll sever that little clit at the
>base, so we have to take this slow and easy. Do stop screaming, I
>haven't even thought of torturing your nipples or any of the other
>delightful places I usually enjoy playing with so much! what's that?
>Darlin' your crying is distoring your words. What? Redhead joke? Oh, but
>that's the POINT! Yes this IS a joke. I', raising the chair a bit so
>you can look down at your ****. See that sweet little clitty, turgid,
>swollen and dark in agony trapped in the drying rawhide? Isn't that the
>REDDEST head you've EVER seen?
>
>Now stay put while Unca Swan goes and gets his scissors and camera.
>
>Swan
>
>Psi Corps
>
>Aleways willing to oblige a lady.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/kn3mp
>-----------------------------------


Thanks, but I'm regretting I asked for it now I've read it again.

>>>>>and he was definitely oriented toward humans.
>>>>
>>>>No, you're just presuming he was, just like you presumed
>>>>those 7 year old boys who were made to such the dicks
>>>>of their elders every day gave meaningful consent and
>>>>enjoyed it.
>>>>
>>>> "Sambia and the Etoro have a practice that derives from
>>>> these beliefs, in which young boys, starting around the
>>>> age of seven to ten and lasting until puberty, manipulate
>>>> and fellate older males to orgasm and ingest the ejaculate;
>>>> this "fellatio insemination" ideally occurs daily. The masculinity
>>>> of the donors thereby passes to the beneficiaries."
>>>>
>>>>So, these elders were so sincere in their belief that their semen
>>>>gave young boys masculinity that it gave them a hard on, eh?
>>>>Why didn't they just jerk off into a bowl, perv?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
>>>>>for him by denying him this release,
>>>>
>>>>Exactly! Why didn't you get the poor thing a mate or just
>>>>leave him alone to do what it wants to do on something
>>>>else like a toy, perv?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>when it did him no harm, and it did me no harm?
>>>>
>>>>It debased both you and the bird, you stupid bitch.
>>>
>>>Her whole life sounds as if it revolves around debauchery and self-defilement.

>>
>>
>> I'm certain of it. S&M, zoophilia, paedophilia - you name it and
>> she's all for it because she likes debasing herself and others.

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rupertmccallum, who spends an *awful* lot of time addressing others
whose opinions he neither respects nor appreciates, wrote:

> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
>>Rupert wrote:
>>
>>
>>>chico chupacabra wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Lesley wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Karen Winter, schismatic sectarian, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Derek, I know that you will argue endlessly for the sake
>>>>>>of argument, even if it is obvious to any rational person
>>>>>>that you are making no sense. So I don't intend to
>>>>>>repeat the points I have already made again and again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You are simply wrong. You don't understand what a rights
>>>>>>violation is,and you certainly don't understand Regan,
>>>>>>who frames his philosophical arguments at a level you just
>>>>>>don't have the intellectual capacity to follow. Leif would
>>>>>>be the first to agree with me, if you weren't attacking me
>>>>>>at this point.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I've been thinking about this,
>>>>
>>>>oh dear god... she's trying to use her braincell.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>as you know. Comments follow.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Derek wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>><snip>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>a violation of rights only takes place when an actual
>>>>>>>>concrete harm takes place.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>...without a preceding decision to violate their
>>>>>>>right to our respectful treatment, those particular harms
>>>>>>>don't occur.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That is correct. But the decision to violate a right
>>>>>>is not a violation of a right; it is only a *decision*
>>>>>>to take an action in the future. It's like Harrison
>>>>>>and his imaginary pre-existing cattle -- there can be
>>>>>>no benefit until the animal actually exists. You
>>>>>>have agreed with Leif on that point, and so do I.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>If you agree imaginary beings don't gain a benefit
>>>>>>until they actually exist, and an action is done
>>>>>>which benefits them, you *logically* must agree that
>>>>>>a violation of a being's rights cannot take place until
>>>>>>a real action in the real world takes place. Saying
>>>>>>a rights violation takes place without an action is
>>>>>>exactly the same as saying a benefit takes place
>>>>>>without an action.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Ok, but action stems from intent; that originates from thoughts
>>>>>which should be culled from inception with the Knowledge of
>>>>>Right and Wrong - understood with real education, and instinct.
>>>>>It is Wrong, because it contravenes Natural Laws. It is deviant.
>>>>>
>>>>>Animals normally follow their instinct - but that can be perverted.
>>>>>Zoophiles - however 'caring' they may be,
>>>>
>>>>They're not caring or selfless; they're selfish deviants who prey upon
>>>>those who, or (in this instance) those that, cannot speak for
>>>>themselves, defend themselves, etc. They are sexual predators every bit
>>>>as much as child molestors are.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>DO -actively involve-
>>>>>animals - 'grooming' them for what *we* *should* *know* to be
>>>>>an *aberrant* activity, taking advantage of the animals' innocence.
>>>>
>>>>I don't know about the animals' innocence bit, but they DO take
>>>>advantage of them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>That is disrespectful - and no different from the selfish attitude that
>>>>>leads to and allows *all* other animal abuses for humans' desires.
>>>>
>>>>It's MORE selfish and abusive, Les.
>>>
>>>Ridiculous.

>>
>>No, it isn't. What's ridiculous is that you find it objectionable when
>>people eat animals but nobody else's business when they molest them. Why
>>is that, Rupie? Why is it your business what other people eat or wear,
>>but not your business whom or what they ****?

>
> Do you really not know,


I want one of you moronic AR-types who find it objectionable to eat
animals, wear their hides or fur, or use them for experiments to save
lives to explain why it's perfectly acceptable for people to have sex
them instead.

> or are you just pretending? Can you really be
> that thick?


I sincerely want to know why you're morally permissive when it comes to
the sexual abuse of an animal but outraged when someone chooses a steak
or hot dog instead.

> Well, if you want to know,


You won't be the one to do it, pussy. You're intellectually incapable of
doing much more than this kind of bullshit:
> just miraculously transform yourself into
> someone who is worthy of my conversation, and I'll tell you.


Transform yourself, asshole, into someone who can do more than wave his
hands about frantically while demanding others conform to his peculiar
standards. All this ****ing time you've wasted telling others to
apologize, act the way you want them to (****ing control freak), etc.,
could've been used more productively.

But nooooooooo, you wanna be a dick about. Fine. You're a dick.

>>>>Contrary to your fantasy-world
>>>>notions about nature, animals don't frolic blissfully all day weary only
>>>>of mankind; they live in a world where some are prey and others are
>>>>predators. It's not selfish to eat meat or wear fur, it's part of nature
>>>>[for] animals to eat and to be eaten.

>>
>>[Edited my own sentence.]
>>
>>
>>>Of course it's selfish.

>>
>>It's not selfish to eat meat or wear fur.

>
> Absurd.


Tell that to lions, wolves, and cougars.

>>>The idea that modern farming practices are
>>>"part of nature" is ridiculous.

>>
>>It's very natural for man to maximize yields using minimal inputs,
>>whether it's getting more corn per acre or developing faster growing
>>chickens. Other animals also engage in efficient/economical behaviors
>>like burying or storing up food or scavenging.

>
> Seems like a pretty warped view of what's "natural" to me.


Is it unnatural for rodents like squirrels and chipmunks to harbor away
so much food that they'll never be able to consume it all? Or for bears
to find areas where the fish are so plentiful that they needn't "work"
to eat?

> As I say,


You don't say, retard.

> the question of what's natural is irrelevant.


No, it's very relevant because it shows that your position is out of
touch with reality.

>>>In any case, demonstrating that a
>>>behaviour is natural is not to prove that it is immune to ethical
>>>criticism.

>>
>>It's normal, natural, and ethical for people to eat animals; it's
>>unethical to molest other species that cannot give consent to being
>>molested.

>
> Ipse dixit,


Not ipse dixit. It's unethical to force sexual activity upon anyone or
anything without consent of that party or entity. It's called rape. It's
also normal and ethical for people to eat animals; human history
supports this.

> doesn't address my point.


Tough shit if you think so, because you've not addressed anyone else's
points in some time.

>>>>It's both unnatural
>>>
>>>Prove it.(It's irrelevant anyway, but it'd be interesting to see how
>>>you'd go about arguing that modern farming practices are "natural" and
>>>human-nonhuman sexual interactions aren't).

>>
>>Here's a link to get you started with the former, dummy:
>>http://tinyurl.com/lpzxt
>>
>>As for the latter, a quick consultation with DSM-IV, as well as books
>>about our culture, will reinforce my already-stated position.

>
> That's how we figure out what's natural, is it? Consult DSM-IV and our
> cultural taboos? You really are funny.


DSM is based on science, not on cultural taboos. Pussy.

>>A brief synopsis of paraphilias from DSM:
>>http://health.enotes.com/mental-diso...ia/paraphilias
>>
>>Wikipedia on cultural perspectives of sexual abuse of animals:
>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Histori...s_on_zoophilia
>>

>
>



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Skanky wrote:

> Dutch wrote:
>
>>"Skanky" > wrote in message

>
> ...
>
>>>He might escalate and do something like rape the animal, thinking it
>>>likes it too (dogs can't say yes or no).

>>
>>Rape is a violent act, there is no supportable reason to believe that he
>>would harm his dog.

>
>
> I hope not.
>
>
>>>A mindset that sexualizes
>>>animals is on very shaky grounds.

>>
>>You're presuming something that doesn't necessarily follow, I'm surprised a
>>*** person would do this. There is a stereotype among straight people that
>>all gays have tendencies towards pedophilia. This is also an unsupported
>>conclusion. I agree that one must be weird to do what he did, but it doesn't
>>make it necessarily immoral except in a social context. Just because
>>something seems icky does not make it immoral.

>
>
> You're presuming I'm ***.


It's normal for people to assume an unmarried woman of your age who
hasn't had a man in her life for some time has "different" preferences.

> I presume that most people, *** or straight,
> would not think too highly of what that friend of your's is doing.
>
>
>>>I would recommend to anyone has that
>>>mindset, that they try to refocus their libidoes on something safe,
>>>like those Furries or Plushies people or whatever they're called.
>>>They're weird, but nonharmful. They dress up as animals and have sex
>>>with each other. Some have sex with stuffed animals, I think. One of
>>>the weirdest fetishes I've heard of, but morally they are completely ok
>>>as they harm no one.

>>
>>As far as I know his dog was never harmed at all. Licking his master's dick
>>meant he got whatever yummy treat was smeared on it, I doubt if it had any
>>more significance than that to the animal.

>
>
> It's still wrong, just like it would be wrong if he were to smear his
> dick with candy and invite children to lick it off. I see it as
> comparable.
>

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Scented Nectar wrote:

> chico chupacabra wrote:
>
>>>>Why would it be immoral?
>>>
>>>I guess it isn't.

>>
>>What would be moral about letting it have its way with you or any part of your body?

>
>
> If the human consents to letting the animal wank on them, that's gross,
> and sends out warning bells,


Consenting to that sets off more than bells.

> but it's a lot better than if the human
> wanks to the animal.


I have a very strong feeling Karen was "helping" her little friend a lot
more than she's let on so far. Her previous posts, going back a couple
years now, about the subject conveyed a little too much familiarity with
the issue of "interspecies" relations. Now we know...

>>>Just grosses me out.

>>
>>That pervert Karen got off on it.

>
> I don't think that can be said for sure. She didn't specify feeling
> sexual on her part.


She wrote:
I thought it was rather sweet, in fact. He certainly was a
happier bird with me than with the other 'tiels.

A *normal* human would've been uncomfortable with that kind of thing,
especially letting it go to completion (much less aiding and abetting,
as Karen seems wont to do).

>>>>I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
>>>>Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
>>>>he was quite old when I adopted him, and he was definitely oriented
>>>>toward humans. Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
>>>>for him by denying him this release, when it did him no harm, and it
>>>>did me no harm?
>>>
>>>I used to have a cockatiel who kept trying to do that to me.

>>
>>That was the last decent date you had, too, Skanky.

>
> How's that


How long has it been since you gave some guy booty so you could score
some weed?
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Scented Nectar wrote:


> cheeky upchuck wrote:
>
>>>>Why would it be immoral?


>>>I guess it isn't.


>>What would be moral about letting it have its way with you or any part of your body?


> If the human consents to letting the animal wank on them, that's gross,
> and sends out warning bells, but it's a lot better than if the human
> wanks to the animal.


>>>Just grosses me out.


>>Glorfindel got off on it.


> I don't think that can be said for sure. She didn't specify feeling
> sexual on her part.


No, there was no sexual pleasure/interest in it for me. I was
just allowing the little bird to do what he wanted with my hand,
and I don't see anything morally questionable about it in this
case. For crying out loud -- he was a little bird, no bigger
than my hand, and it was completely his idea.

>>>>I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
>>>>Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
>>>>he was quite old when I adopted him, and he was definitely oriented
>>>>toward humans. Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
>>>>for him by denying him this release, when it did him no harm, and it
>>>>did me no harm?


<snip>
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pearl wrote:

>>>>I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
>>>>Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
>>>>he was quite old when I adopted him, and he was definitely oriented
>>>>toward humans. Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
>>>>for him by denying him this release, when it did him no harm, and it
>>>>did me no harm?
>>>
>>>Good grief, Karen Winter! The OBVIOUS and CORRECT thing to
>>>do would have been to adopt a FEMALE cockatiel! *That* would
>>>have been the *respectful* thing to do.

>>
>>Since when has Karen been respectful of anyone or anything?

>
> Since always.


No. Never. Everything she's told us about herself -- abandoning her
child, tearing apart her family, tearing apart her church -- shows that
the only person who or thing that matters to her is her.

> I think she was/is mistaken, but we're all learning.


She's not trying to learn, she's trying to teach -- and what she wants
to teach the world, about molesting animals and children, is depraved
and sick.

>>>Wrongly thinking that it was
>>>just ok to enable the aberrant behaviour resulted in him missing out,

>>
>>Yeah, but she got some...

>
> How very respectful of you .. not.


It's called sarcasm.

> A fine example you are .. not!


[insert Lesley's list here...]

>>>not only the opportunity to engage in their natural courtship, etc., but
>>>every other facet of meaningful association with one of his own kind!

>>
>>That's irrelevant to a navel-gazing perv like Karen.

>
> It is certainly irrelevant to a factory 'farming' supporter like you.


You object to consumption of *all* meat, so your arguments against
so-called "factory" farming are specious and beside the point.
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"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...

pearl wrote:

> > Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
> > you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?

>
> The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
> Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
> do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
> not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
> find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
> fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.


'The German Brotherhood of Death Society is the Thule Society. Adolf Hitler
joined this society in 1919, becoming an adept under the leadership of Dietrich
Eckhart. Later, the Thule Society selected Hitler to be their leader of the New
World Order, as Eckhart revealed on his deathbed, saying, "Follow Hitler; he
will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I have initiated him into the
Secret Doctrine, opened his centers in vision, and given him the means to
communicate with the powers." (Trevor Ravenscroft, The Spear Of Destiny,
p. 91).

In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world had now
entered into a New World Order. Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society. As we stated
earlier, Bush's New World Order is virtually identical with Hitler's; the key
connecting point is the common membership in their respective Brotherhood ..
(Behold A Pale Horse, p. 81; Introduction To The Order, p.7).

We will study this connection in depth today. Let us begin with a quick overview
of the Thule Society, beginning with a study of its practices and relevant history.

* They were Satanists who practiced Black Magic -- this means that they were
"solely concerned with raising their consciousness by means of rituals to
awareness of evil and nonhuman intelligences in the universe; and with achieving
means of communication with these intelligences." (Ravenscroft, p. 161).
Concentrate on that seemingly innocent word, rituals. Christians equate a ritual
to a church service, thereby not understanding its occultic meaning. The New
Age Dictionary defines ritual as a "ceremony to restore balance with nature...
and bring back lost harmony and sacredness." Remember we are dealing with
the Satanic world, where good is called evil and evil good. The sacredness
mentioned here is a Satanic sacredness. Rituals literally are proscribed activities
designed to allow demonic power to flow through the participants. These
activities are proscribed chants, formula wordings, and carefully planned actions.
As we noted last week, the effect is devastatingly powerful, as demonic force
pours through the participants, delivering a counterfeit spiritual experience
which literally transforms their lives. Never skip over the word ritual, as it is a
word of Satanic power.

* Thule members practiced a form of Sexual Magic derived from a lodge of
which Aleister Crowley was a member. Crowley was recognized as the foremost
worshipper of Satan in the 19th Century. "The origin of this...medieval magic...
can be traced to a Freemason, Robert Little, who founded the Societas
Rosicruciana in 1865... (Ravenscroft, Spear of Destiny, p. 164-5). While the
actual sexual perversions which were practiced are too offensive to share, the
results are not. Author Revenscroft stated that "indulgence in the most sadistic
rituals awakened penetrating vision into the workings of Evil Intelligences and
bestowed phenomenal magical powers." (Ibid. p. 167). This is the Thule Society.

Ravenscroft records its effect upon Hitler, "...sexual perversion took a central
place in [Hitler's] life...a monstrous sexual perversion was the very core of his
whole existence, the source of his mediumistic and clairvoyant powers, and the
motivation behind every act through which he reaped a sadistic vengeance on
humanity." (Ibid., p. 171).

Eckart's final act was to initiate Hitler into "a monstrous sadistic magic ritual...
after which he was sexually impotent. Hitler's impotency had a deep
psychological foundation. He knew sexual fulfillment through the extremes of
sadism and masochism... "(Ravenscroft, p. 155, 173). This impotency delivered
a final devastating blow to Hitler's psychological foundation, finally making him
into the sadistic murderer that history knows.
....
As Rosenbaum continued his research, he found definite links between Bones
and the Bavarian Illuminists. The Bavarian Illuminists were part of the original
Masters of the Illuminati. First, Rosenbaum discovered documents which detailed
the origins of Bones back to Germany. These documents stated, "Bones is a
chapter of a corps of a German University..." The document described at length
its relationship with this German Secret Society (the Thule Society) which lead
to the founding of the Skull and Bones in 1832.
......
The Skull and Bones also incorporates sexual activities into their practices.
"The death of the initiate will be as frightful as the use of human skeletons and
ritual psychology can make it..." (Esquire Magazine, "The Last Secrets of
Skull and Bones", Ron Rosenbaum, p. 89). Sexual perversion is part of ritual
psychology. Ron Rosenbaum, author of the Esquire Magazine article, stated
that on initiation night, called tap night, "...if one could climb to the tower of
Weir Hall, the odd castle that overlooks the Bones courtyard, one could hear
strange cries and moans coming from the bowels of the tomb as the 15 newly
tapped members were put through what sounded like a harrowing ordeal..."
(Esquire, September, 1976, p. 86).

Further,[initiates] "lay naked in coffins and tell their deepest and darkest sexual
secrets as part of their initiation." (Esquire, p. 85). These experiences in the
coffins incorporated sexual pain and resulted in being born-again, into the Order,
as we mentioned above. (Cooper, p.95) Powerful force charges through the
participants of these ceremonies, transforming their lives dramatically. This type
ritual is classic Satanism. Anton LaVey states, in his book The Satanic Rituals:
Companion To The Satanic Bible, (p. 57)

"The ceremony of rebirth takes place in a large coffin..This is similar to the
coffin symbolism that...is found in most lodge rituals." Make no mistake about
it: Any organization which utilizes this coffin ritual to simulate rebirth is practising
Satanism, including Skull and Bones.
.......'
http://web.archive.org/web/200410120.../nwothule.html

'The program cover for the ceremony "Cremation of Care" depicts a skeleton,
a demon, and the huge owl illuminated by flames. A small white drawing above
the name of the director depicts a demon or devil with the initials PJ sweeping
something up with a witch's broom.

See exclusive video stills of the ceremony at the website:
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

Watch actual video clips of the ceremony at:
http://www.infowars.com/videos.html

Descriptions of the video clips are as follows:

Here you see the group of priests with torches, in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The high priest is rationalizing the fact that human sacrifice brings beauty
into the world.

Here you see the group of priests with torches in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The priest praises the owl-god and tells everyone to be reverend before him.

This clip shows the boatman in black-hooded garb journeying across the lake
to the owl god, Molak, with the human effigy (we hope) sacrifice. The boatman's
face was painted to resemble that of a skull. The priests on the right await their victim.

Watch and hear the screams as the simulated human sacrifice takes place to the
great owl of Babylon. Midsummer is the high holy point for luciferians and occultists
- hear the priest's words as he burns the effigy - "once again midsummer sets us free."
....
Ask any Native American elder. When Owl manifests in a stone form, it means a
lack of empathy. Shamans the world over manifest their power animals as living
beings, just as they are in nature, not as stone idols. . When people begin to see
their power animals as stone idols it means they have lost their empathy with the
four leggeds of the animal kingdom, and with the two leggeds, the humans.
It means they are pursuing self interest over service to others.
....'
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/newstart/bohemian-grove/

> >> and that
> >> Israelis should sit back and take all those

> >
> > DU armaments from the USA

>
> We should be sending them even more weapons than we are.


Of course you think that, you monster.

> >> Iranian-funded missiles from
> >> Hezbollah up their asses and forgive and forget about Shalit and anyone
> >> else Hamas and Hezbollah want to kidnap and kill.

> >
> > You'd like us to forget about the the murders in Gaza

>
> Which ones? The ones in retaliation for suicide bombings? I don't
> consider targeting buildings where explosive vests or rockets are being
> made to constitute murder.


Friday, 9 June 2006, 18:28 GMT 19:28 UK

Palestinians killed on Gaza beach

The shelling has caused outrage among Palestinians

Seven people, including three children, have been killed by Israeli shells
which hit a beach in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials say.

At least 30 people were wounded in the shelling, they say.

The Israeli military says it has halted all shelling of Gaza and has
launched an inquiry into whether ground-based artillery could have
been involved.

In a statement, the military wing of Hamas threatened to resume attacks
on Israel in the wake of "massacres".

The group has been observing a self-imposed ceasefire for more than a year.

Although there have been threats of a response to other attacks in recent
months, the BBC's Simon Wilson in Jerusalem says the move is significant
because it appears on the official website of the armed wing of the group.

There was no immediate word from the political wing of Hamas, which
dominates the government in the Palestinian Authority.

Four other people were also killed in separate Israeli air strike in northern
Gaza on Friday, Palestinians said.
....'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065008.stm

> > and the many thousands
> > of Palestinians rotting away in Israeli prisons - including women and children.

>
> You say "children," I say "juveniles." Why are they imprisoned or in
> camps? Because they've presented a danger to [you won't say "other
> children" so I'll say] Israeli soldiers or Israeli citizens (Arab
> Christians and Jews alike). Same for women who are known associates of
> terrorists.


'Former Israel Prime Minster, Yitzhak Rabin, said in an uncensored
version of his memoirs, published in the New York Times on 23 October
23rd, 1979:

'We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
question - What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion
waved his hand in a gesture which said "Drive them out!"'

And that's what they did.

The Arabs were driven out of power or consequence in their own land by
Zionist terrorist groups like Hagana, Irgun and the Stern Gang (also known
as Lehi) who bombed and assassinated Arabs, fellow Jews and the British
administrators who had control over Palestine under a mandate from the
League of Nations and the Versailles Peace Conference. 'Palestine' was
then the region we now call Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza Strip,
formerly belonging to the Ottoman Empire.

This Zionist terrorism led to the imposition of the Jewish state in 1948
when 750,000 or more Arabic people were expelled from their own land.
Among the major players in these and other terrorist operations were
Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, butchers who became
Israeli Prime Ministers and had the nerve to condemn Arab terrorism.
......
It is claimed that everything started with the kidnapping of the Israeli
soldiers, but we need to go back at least to June 9th when Israel shelled
a beach in Gaza killing eight Palestinians and injuring 32 civilians,
including 13 children. The dead included seven members of one family.
The Israeli government offered its 'deep regret', but this outrage was no
accident. It was part of the process of instigating a reaction so that
what has happened since could unfold.

On June 13th ,an Israeli plane fired at a vehicle on a busy Gaza road and
when civilians hurried to help the injured another missile was fired into
the crowd. Eleven Palestinians died, including two medical staff and two
children.

Come on, the Israeli government was saying - retaliate. We have the gun
clocked, we're ready to go, and we just need you to give us the excuse to
pull the trigger.

If Arab people had done the same they would have been called terrorists,
the pimps of the 'world community' would have been red-faced in their
condemnation, and Israel's American-funded military would have done
what have these past ten days.

The outrageous double-standards are just sickening. I saw some former
Israel military commander this week saying how terrible it was that Israeli
children had to be sitting in bomb shelters in Haifa when, as she spoke
those words, children were being killed by Israeli bombs in Lebanon.

But then Israeli Prime Minister and terrorist, Menachem Begin, told the
Israeli parliament that Palestinians 'are beasts walking on two legs' and
another Prime Minister and terrorist, Yitzhak Shamir, said in a speech to
Jewish settlers that the Palestinians 'would would be crushed like
grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls'. ('Begin
and the 'Beasts', New Statesman, June 25, 1982, and Yitzhak Shamir
quoted in the New York Times April 1st, 1988). That is what they really
think.
...
The creation of Israel was never an end in itself. It has always been a
means to an end. All along, the plan has been to target the Islamic world
to trigger a global war that would set the world ablaze and lead to the
'solution' of centralised control of the planet and all its peoples. To do
that they needed to create a point of conflict, a power keg, among the
Arab countries that could be exploded to start another global conflict.
This is the real reason for the creation of Israel and the real reason why
the United States has spent its billions building up Israel's might and
military.
...
This is the historical background, the falling dominoes, that have led to
what is happening today with hundreds of Lebanese killed, more than
half a million made refugees, and missiles killing and maiming Israelis
who are manipulated and programmed by their own sick government to
believe the Big Lie.

Of course, Arab terrorism is equally wrong. Violence just begets
violence, only peace begets peace. Every kidnapping, death and injury
is a personal and family tragedy and none is more or less important than
any other. The sight of the Hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah, calling
two Arab children in Israel killed by Hezbollah rockets 'martyrs for
Palestine' was gut-wrenching. There are idiots and terrorist fanatics on
both sides and I have no illusions about the suppression of freedom in
Syria or Iran either. It is a case of seeing the big picture in which the
monstrous game is being played out and putting the Arab response into
its historical context.
....
http://lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=6814

'As a result of their visible activity in the current Intifada, Palestinian
women have not escaped the mass arrest campaigns. Palestinian women
in detention are subjected to mistreatment on a daily basis and are often
held in cells and sections with Israeli criminal prisoners. Regular body
searches are performed with brutality by prison guards; sexual harassment
occurs frequently; the right to elect a representative for their collective
demands is not recognized as in other prisons; solitary confinement is
often used as a form of punishment; detainees are prohibited from going
outside regularly or of using the canteen; cell searches and confiscation
of personal belongings is a common practice; and attacks on women by
beating or firing tear gas into cells occur regularly.

At the end of 2004, there were over 120 Palestinian women being held by
Israeli authorities. The number has steadily increased over the years of
the Intifada making this the largest number of female detainees held by
Israel in two-decades. Female prisoners are placed in 2 central prisons,
Neve Tresta and Hasharon-Telmond.

17 of these women are mothers, two women, Mervat Taha and Manal
Ghanem, gave birth while in detention and Manal continues to live with
her child, Nour, inside the prison. Mervat was recently released with her
son, Wa'el, now 2 years old has lived his entire life inside the prison.
There are currently eight girls (under age 18) inside Israeli jails in
addition to a number of women who have turned 18 while they were
imprisoned. Israel detains children as young as 12 years old, in blatant
contravention of the internationally accepted designation of any individual
under the age of 18 as a child. Israeli military regulations stipulate that a
child is anyone under the age of 16, whilst Israeli law stipulates this age
to be under 18.

Many Palestinian women prisoners are transferred to Neve Tertza Prison,
one of six sections of Ramleh Prison after their interrogation process.
Here Palestinian female detainees remain detained within the same section
as Israeli criminal female prisoners accused of crimes such as murder,
theft, drug use, and prostitution. Mixing Palestinian prisoners with Israeli
criminal prisoners has created a great deal of tension within the prison,
particularly as political prisoners should be separated from other categories
of prisoners.

The prison administration continues to humiliate Palestinian female prisoners
by forcing them to strip in front of prison guards while their hands are cuffed,
and then to dress before these same guards. The administration conducts
regular searches of prison cells, confiscating personal property and papers.

The prison administration has diligently worked at breaking the unity of the
female detainees by isolating them from the outside world and preventing
family visits. Correspondence to and from the prison is also prohibited, and
newspapers are allowed in the prison but are delayed by a few days. Visits
amongst other prisoners are prevented and daily breaks have been reduced
to half an hour. Palestinian women prisoners at Neve Tertza Prison reported
that their conditions of detention were extremely difficult, with no glass
protecting windows in the cells and insects and vermin found throughout the
prison. Because of the prevention of family visits, prisoners do not have
adequate winter clothing or extra food to supplement the small food portions
they receive in prison.

Some Palestinian female prisoners have been arrested as a means of placing
pressure on their husbands. Asma' Abu el-Hayja, for example, who is 40
years old and is suffering from brain cancer, is being held in an administrative
detention in order to pressure her husband who is also under detention.
Mrs. Ablaa' Saadat was arrested on 21 January 2003 as she travelled as a
Palestinian representative to the World Social Forum in Brazil. Saadat is the
wife of the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine (PFLP). She was give four months administrative detention
following her arrest. She was told by an interrogator that her arrest was
merely a demonstration that 'they' can do whatever they want. She was also
told that if her husband had 'blood on his hands' they would kill her children.

http://www.addameer.org/detention/women.html

>>>>>> You have tried to defend and cover up the most
>>>>>> heinous crimes against humanity,

>
>>>>> Examples?

>
>>>> Mass murder through 'war'

>
>> >Where's your contempt for those who started it? Oh wait, you think the
>> >planes were flown by remote control and it just happened to have some
>> >fellows who'd trained in bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan;

> >
> >You wish to discuss 911? OK. Start by refuting this:
> >http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones#Critics


'In 1973, Jones earned his bachelors degree in physics, magna *** laude,
from Brigham Young University, and his PhD in physics from Vanderbilt
University in 1978. Jones conducted his PhD research at the Stanford Linear
Accelerator Center (from 1974 to 1977), and post-doctoral research at
Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility.

Research interests and background

Jones conducted research at the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
in Arco, Idaho, from 1979 to 1985, where he was a senior engineering
specialist. He was the principal investigator for experimental muon-catalyzed
fusion from 1982 to 1991 for the U.S. Department of Energy, Division of
Advanced Energy Projects. From 1990 to 1993, Jones researched fusion in
condensed matter and deuterium, for the U.S. Department of Energy and
for the Electric Power Research Institute.

Jones has also been a collaborator in several experiments, including
experiments at TRIUMF (Vancouver, British Columbia), The National
High Energy Laboratory, KEK (Tsukuba, Japan), and the Rutherford
Appleton Laboratory at Oxford University.

Jones specializes in Metal-catalyzed fusion, Archaeometry and Solar
energy [2].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

'Here are some of the kinds of considerations that these experts and
scholars find profoundly troubling:

* In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings
have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11,
so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

* The BBC has reported that at least five of the nineteen alleged "hijackers"
have turned up alive and well living in Saudi Arabia, yet according to the
FBI, they were among those killed in the attacks. How is this possible?

* Frank DeMartini, a project manager for the WTC, said the buildings
were designed with load redistribution capabilities to withstand the
impact of airliners, whose effects would be like "puncturing mosquito
netting with a pencil." Yet they completely collapsed. How is this possible?

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?
...
Their own physics research has established that only controlled
demolitions are consistent with the near-gravity speed of fall and virtually
symmetrical collapse of all three of the WTC buildings. While turning
concrete into very fine dust, they fell straight-down into their own footprints.
...'
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/P...30Jan2006.html

Answer the questions, 'chico'.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Hope

Henry See
6 August 2006
Signs of the Times

Hope is often a fragile thing. We hope for so much, yet we seem to attain so little.
Looking back, we see our hopes are often based upon illusion, and it is therefore
not surprising that they are dashed, that they amount to nothing. And if it is so
with our petty, individual hopes, what of our hopes for the world at large?

What of the hope for peace, for a world free from violence and war and fear, a
world where the needs of everyone are met?

A vain hope we are told. A vain hope we conclude from our study of history.
Man is an animal, has a dark side, something that cannot be done away with,
that is an integral part of who he is. We are told, and come to accept, that it has
always been this way, and ever so shall it be.

Moreover, the greatest and most respected minds of our species have sought to
find the way out of this predicament for thousands of years. They have elaborated
moral systems, religions, philosophies, rules and regulations, laws, political and
economic systems, all to this end. For naught. The last century saw monstrous
wars on a scale worthy of man's great technical progress. By the end of the
Second World War, it had become easy to kill hundreds of thousands with one
bomb, and tens of millions over the course of several years. The intervening
decades have only upped the numbers. Single bombs can now potentially kill
millions. Most of the planet's population could be hit in a matter of minutes.


Where war was once the domain of soldiers, it is more and more aimed at civilians.
We see this today with Israeli attacks on the civilian population of Lebanon, their
attacks on the civilian population of Gaza and the West Bank. We see it, too, in
the war in Iraq waged by the United States of America against a people who were
no threat to anyone.

There are also the manmade viri that spread from the laboratory into the population,
causing diseases that can potentially kill millions more.

All the evidence points to the fact that war, violence, and the killing of innocents is
part of who we are as a species.

But what if the initial assumptions are wrong?

How many of you reading these words would be able to do such a thing as kill a
baby or small child? How many of you could put a bullet, or several, into the head
of a ten-year-old on her way to school, or empty your pistol's clip into the body
of a child wounded at your feet? How many of you could order the bombing of
an appartment block knowing that the dead will be civilians, families, people who
have never raised a gun against an enemy in their lives?

We ask again. What if our initial assumptions are wrong? What if this violence we
see all around us does not come from within us, from within people of conscience,
but comes from another source?

What if the evil we see around us in the world is not born from human nature?

Our studies on psychopathy, and the work of Polish psychologist Andrew
Lobaczewski on the dynamics of psychopathic political systems, suggests very
strongly that everything we "know" about the dark side of human nature is wrong,
that the primary source of the violence and active harming of other beings on our
planet comes not from mankind, but from an almost human species in our midst,
a species that looks human, but that is missing that which we would say is the
defining characteristic of humanity: conscience.

Could it really be that these horrors that we live with on the nightly news, that we
read about in history books, that have always been with us and which seem such
an integral part of human life, are not a necessary component of life? That they are
injected into our lives through a parasite/predator in our midst? One that moves
invisibly within society?

If you have done no research into psychopthy, such a hypothesis may well seem
far-fetched, an idealist fantasy. It seems outrageous. It goes against everything you
have been taught. It goes against everything you think you "know". However, once
you have studied the issue, have read the research into psychopathic behaviour,
have studied a psychopath's methods and means of manipulation, once you have
understood the individual psychopath and have traced its predation as the most
successful ones move into positions of power in the law, politics, business, the
police and the military, and as these individuals join together with others of their ilk
to form cohesive structures that can take over social movements and political parties,
once all of this is understood, and the horror of what we are facing hits home, then,
in the face of this horror, a small spark of hope is lit.

An in-depth understanding of psychopathy and ponerology brings the realization
that the violence around us is not an instrinic part of who we are. It is an intrinsic
part of who they are.

Having potentially identified the true source of evil doesn't mean that it can be easily
eradicated. Obviously, there are no easy solutions. It is way too late for easy solutions.

However, instead of constantly fighting against the branches, we can begin to strike at
the root.

The first thing people need is knowledge of the true problem. Just that, just identifying
the real cause, is a large step. It makes the world understandable. You can understand
why there is such relentless bombing of Lebanon, of the Gaza. You understand why
Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and the rest of their gang can lie about Weapons of Mass
Destruction in Iraq, in spite of it costing the lives of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.
You stop wondering how people can do such horrors because you see them for who
they are. You understand that they act this way because that is who they are.

So the first thing this knowledge brings is clarity. I think that this understanding alone
may well make a big difference in how we approach the problems facing us. With a
clear mind, solutions will appear that have eluded us while we suffered under the
delusion that the problem came from within us.

If the origin of evil is genetic, that is, it arises from those psychopaths with this genetic
difference who have a predisposition to committing acts that the rest of us judge as evil
while we, the people of conscience, do not, we need to become aware of this difference
and the way it is being used against us.

And here is where such understanding brings hope. Such violence is not part of what
makes us human. This understanding will give to people a hope that the senseless
slaughters of history, that have been put down to "human nature", and therefore to a
certain inevitability, can be ended once and for all. If the psychopaths who rule our
societies and who deform our understanding of ourselves can eventually be isolated,
human history might well embark on a completely different path.

If that was understood, would it not be a powerful motivating force for people of
conscience?

Further, the implications of there being a group of people who share a genetic distinction
of which they are conscious, and that these people can band together to achieve their goals,
provides a grounding for much of what is called "conspiracy theory". It takes it out of the
realm of the fantastic and gives it an easily understandable explanation, one that people can
understand.

Imagine being able to give this as an explanation for why a "conspiracy" like the US/Israeli
attacks on 9/11 were able to come off successfully. How often do you hear that it is
impossible because "someone would have talked"? That answer is based upon the idea
that those who carried it out are like you and me.

They aren't.

Moreover, our understanding of current events, as well of history, is completely changed..
Yes, there can be groups of people working together even over centuries to accomplish
goals. And they will not "talk" or betray the conspiracy because they are so different from
the rest of us that it is unthinkable. They do not care about us because all they can "care"
about is winning, is the next rush from entrapping in some way another "normal person",
from the next figurative or literal kill.

They do this because they understand full well that if the truth were known, if people of
conscience were to wake up to the fact that they are ruled over by such almost humans,
there would be a revolt. The psychopaths and their accomplices would be overthrown.
They know it is a question of "us or them".

The rest of us have yet to awaken to this fact.

But to see how deep this could go, one must study up on psychopathy, really understand
how different they are.

Imagine being able to kill for the hell of it. Imagine having no remorse. Ever. No feelings
of guilt. Ever. Imagine being able to kill, lie, cheat, and manipulate and never have a second
thought. And imagine what such a world would look like, how horrible it would be to inhabit.

That is our world under pathocratic domination.

If it appears on the macroscopic scale in international relations, it also exists in our daily lives.
We tend to give the benefit of the doubt to others for bad behaviour and project onto them
our own ways of thinking and behaving. We say "He must be stressed", or "She had a rough
childhood". We think that, everything being equal, everyone else on the planet would respond
as we do. They could only be driven to harmful behaviour towards others under extreme
conditions, or under the influence of drugs.

So the first step on our way out of this world of horrors is to learn to distinguish between
those people who may be a little off some days because they are stressed and those are
are that way because that is who they are. The first step is to learn to identify the
psychopaths around us, those deviants who are in our lives and who are running our world.

The following books are a good place to start:

The Sociopath Next Door by Martha Stout
The Mask of Sanity by Hervey Cleckley
Without Conscience and Snakes in Suits by Dr. Robert Hare

These works will give you a grounding in psychopathy. Once you have this understanding,
you can then learn about how these types work together:

Political Ponerology by Andrew Lobaczewski

These books will change your way of seeing the world. They will open your eyes to the
real workings on our planet.

Once the dynamic is understood by enough people, and individuals learn how to extricate
themselves from these manipulations in their own lives, they can help others to see the real
problem and to extricate themselves. If we have enough time, and there are days when I
really wonder how much time we have left, we can isolate the psychopaths, remove them
from power, and take back the governance of our lives ourselves, perhaps for the first time
in history.

I am not saying that this will be easy or that having this understanding is some sort of
magic bullet. It isn't. But with this knowledge, we can at least to work against the root
problem. And if the hope of a peaceful world where this barbarism is a thing of the past
can be ignited in the hearts of people of conscience, there is no telling what could happen.

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/...60807_Hope.php




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Karen Winter, bird molestor, wrote:

> I was just allowing the little bird to do what he wanted with my hand,


Pervert.

> and I don't see anything morally questionable about it


We know you don't. We also know you don't see anything distasteful about
it, either.

> in this
> case. For crying out loud -- he was a little bird, no bigger
> than my hand, and it was completely his idea.


It could've been your idea to not put up with that, but your mind is too
warped to say no to weird sex.
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pearl wrote:

>>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
>>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?

>>
>>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
>>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
>>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
>>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
>>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
>>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
>>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.

>

<...>

> Here you see the group of priests with torches...


It's silly pageantry, that's all.
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"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> >>>>I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
> >>>>Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
> >>>>he was quite old when I adopted him, and he was definitely oriented
> >>>>toward humans. Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
> >>>>for him by denying him this release, when it did him no harm, and it
> >>>>did me no harm?
> >>>
> >>>Good grief, Karen Winter! The OBVIOUS and CORRECT thing to
> >>>do would have been to adopt a FEMALE cockatiel! *That* would
> >>>have been the *respectful* thing to do.
> >>
> >>Since when has Karen been respectful of anyone or anything?

> >
> > Since always.

>
> No. Never.


You don't even know the meaning of the word.

> Everything she's told us about herself -- abandoning her
> child, tearing apart her family, tearing apart her church -- shows that
> the only person who or thing that matters to her is her.


That's your interpretation of it.

> > I think she was/is mistaken, but we're all learning.

>
> She's not trying to learn, she's trying to teach -- and what she wants
> to teach the world, about molesting animals and children, is depraved
> and sick.


Go remove that tree stump from your eye, hypocrite.

> >>>Wrongly thinking that it was
> >>>just ok to enable the aberrant behaviour resulted in him missing out,
> >>
> >>Yeah, but she got some...

> >
> > How very respectful of you .. not.

>
> It's called sarcasm.


It's called the way you are - an evil loathsome *******.

> > A fine example you are .. not!

>
> [insert Lesley's list here...]


Indeed, cowardly ad hominem. Your MO.

> >>>not only the opportunity to engage in their natural courtship, etc., but
> >>>every other facet of meaningful association with one of his own kind!
> >>
> >>That's irrelevant to a navel-gazing perv like Karen.

> >
> > It is certainly irrelevant to a factory 'farming' supporter like you.

>
> You object to consumption of *all* meat, so your arguments against
> so-called "factory" farming are specious and beside the point.


You support it, you sick hypocrite.




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"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> >>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
> >>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
> >>
> >>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
> >>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
> >>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
> >>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> >>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
> >>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
> >>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.

> >

> <...>
>
> > Here you see the group of priests with torches...

>
> It's silly pageantry, that's all.


Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the questions.


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pearl wrote:

> "Glorfindel" wrote:


I'm going to explain at a little more length for you, Pearl, because I
respect you and I value your opinion.

We thought about getting a mate for the crippled cockatiel after he
got stronger, and it might have been a good idea, but we decided against
it for several reasons. He was 16 years old, and it would have
been difficult to find a bird he was compatible with. He was more
afraid of other birds than interested in them, and was focused on
humans. We talked it over with our bird vet, who was the president
of the national association of avian vet specialists, an expert,
and he said he didn't think our bird needed another bird as a
companion. We deferred to his opinion. We only had the bird with us
for three years after he recovered, and I think we made his last
years as happy as was possible for him, after all his troubles earlier
in his life. If he wanted to use my hand as a sex toy, I wasn't going
to forbid him.


<snip>


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"Glorfindel" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> > "Glorfindel" wrote:

>
> I'm going to explain at a little more length for you, Pearl, because I
> respect you and I value your opinion.


Thank you. I likewise respect you and value your opinion.

> We thought about getting a mate for the crippled cockatiel after he
> got stronger, and it might have been a good idea, but we decided against
> it for several reasons. He was 16 years old, and it would have
> been difficult to find a bird he was compatible with. He was more
> afraid of other birds than interested in them, and was focused on
> humans. We talked it over with our bird vet, who was the president
> of the national association of avian vet specialists, an expert,
> and he said he didn't think our bird needed another bird as a
> companion. We deferred to his opinion. We only had the bird with us
> for three years after he recovered, and I think we made his last
> years as happy as was possible for him, after all his troubles earlier
> in his life. If he wanted to use my hand as a sex toy, I wasn't going
> to forbid him.


Well, at least the expert is partly to blame. Always question 'experts'.






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cheeky upchuck:
> > You're presuming I'm ***.

>
> It's normal for people to assume an unmarried woman of your age who
> hasn't had a man in her life for some time has "different" preferences.


Why are you assuming that I am both unmarried and not getting enough
sex? Just because you're in that situation, doesn't mean others are
too.

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cheeky upchuck wrote:
> How long has it been since you gave some guy booty so you could score
> some weed?


Never. Is that how you get your weed?

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"Derek" > wrote in message ...
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2006 14:21:43 +0100, "William" > wrote:
>
> [..]
> >Wow! You DO tolerate it and those who do it!

>
> No, she does not, as explained in my recent emails to you which
> you've ignored. It's your prerogative to ignore them, of course,
> especially if you're worried about revealing your ISP number
> which might lead to your place of work, but you have no reason
> to assume Pearl tolerates it or those who do it now I've explained
> a few things about her to you in those emails. I'm sorry if this
> embarrasses Pearl, but it has to be said in plain English that she's
> probably the most considerate animal rights advocate you could
> ever meet. Unlike me she tolerates people generally, whatever
> they might say in support for this and that, leaving intolerant
> *******s like myself to attack them instead, maybe, and that's fair
> enough because that's how I do business here, but you cannot
> deny that she finds the practice itself wrong and intolerable.


er Thanks Derek. I'm not too surprised that dude has taken off.
He was fierce ****ed-off with me for not seeing the whole story.




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Rupert wrote:
> Leif Erikson wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>>Leif Erikson wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Rupert wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Derek wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On 6 Aug 2006 18:19:41 -0700, "Rupert" > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Derek wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Sun, 06 Aug 2006 14:06:16 -0600, Glorfindel > wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Derek wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>On 5 Aug 2006 16:35:04 -0700, "Rupert" > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>[..]
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>What I'm not clear on is why the issue of "respectful treatment" arises
>>>>>>>>>>>in a sexual context and no other.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Who said it doesn't? The issue of "respectful treatment" arises
>>>>>>>>>>in many areas as well in a sexual context.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>True
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Then why did Rupert try to imply that "the issue of "respectful
>>>>>>>>treatment" arises in a sexual context and no other."?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I didn't imply that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Look again at your statement at the top of this post; "What I'm not
>>>>>>clear on is why the issue of "respectful treatment" arises in a sexual
>>>>>>context and no other." You do more than imply that "the issue of
>>>>>>"respectful treatment" arises in a sexual context and no other", you
>>>>>>declare it and then go on to say that your not clear on why.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It was my attempt at interpreting your position.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No, it was your attempt at MISinterpreting my position.
>>>>>
>>>>>I won't stand for being told I'm deliberately misinterpreting your
>>>>>position. Accept my good faith or else stop talking to me.
>>>>
>>>>Derek - Rupie does a lot of ordering people not to talk to him.
>>>
>>>
>>>Liar and coward.

>>
>>No.
>>
>>
>>
>>>I have never ordered you not to talk to me,

>>
>>Liar.
>>
>> "stop talking to me"
>> Rupert, psychotic rainman
>> http://tinyurl.com/jgtbz

>
>
> Yes, well, we'll let that link speak for itself, shall we?


Yes, well, rupie, that link establishes that you
ordered me to stop talking to you, and that you are a
liar for having said you never told me that.

You're a bossy little bitch, rupie, but no one really
considers you the boss. Go **** yourself, you sick
little dweeb.


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Glorfindel wrote:
> Scented Nectar wrote:
>
>
> > cheeky upchuck wrote:
> >
> >>>>Why would it be immoral?

>
> >>>I guess it isn't.

>
> >>What would be moral about letting it have its way with you or any part of your body?

>
> > If the human consents to letting the animal wank on them, that's gross,
> > and sends out warning bells, but it's a lot better than if the human
> > wanks to the animal.

>
> >>>Just grosses me out.

>
> >>Glorfindel got off on it.

>
> > I don't think that can be said for sure. She didn't specify feeling
> > sexual on her part.

>
> No, there was no sexual pleasure/interest in it for me. I was
> just allowing the little bird to do what he wanted with my hand,
> and I don't see anything morally questionable about it in this
> case. For crying out loud -- he was a little bird, no bigger
> than my hand, and it was completely his idea.


In my opinion, that puts you higher on the morality scale than a person
who gets off sexually from animals.

> >>>>I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
> >>>>Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
> >>>>he was quite old when I adopted him, and he was definitely oriented
> >>>>toward humans. Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
> >>>>for him by denying him this release, when it did him no harm, and it
> >>>>did me no harm?

>
> <snip>


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pearl wrote:

> > >>>>I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
> > >>>>Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
> > >>>>he was quite old when I adopted him, and he was definitely oriented
> > >>>>toward humans. Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
> > >>>>for him by denying him this release, when it did him no harm, and it
> > >>>>did me no harm?
> > >>>
> > >>>Good grief, Karen Winter! The OBVIOUS and CORRECT thing to
> > >>>do would have been to adopt a FEMALE cockatiel! *That* would
> > >>>have been the *respectful* thing to do.
> > >>
> > >>Since when has Karen been respectful of anyone or anything?
> > >
> > > Since always.

> >
> > No. Never.

>
> You don't even know the meaning of the word.


Someone who would call other people "sick hateful stupid narcissistic little fascist scum" after cross-posting commercial spam doesn't know what considerate means.

> > Everything she's told us about herself -- abandoning her
> > child, tearing apart her family, tearing apart her church -- shows that
> > the only person who or thing that matters to her is her.

>
> That's your interpretation of it.


It's the most reasonable interpretation of it.

> > > I think she was/is mistaken, but we're all learning.

> >
> > She's not trying to learn, she's trying to teach -- and what she wants
> > to teach the world, about molesting animals and children, is depraved
> > and sick.

>
> Go


Eat me, Les.

> > >>>Wrongly thinking that it was
> > >>>just ok to enable the aberrant behaviour resulted in him missing out,
> > >>
> > >>Yeah, but she got some...
> > >
> > > How very respectful of you .. not.

> >
> > It's called sarcasm.

>
> It's called


It's called sarcasm.

> the way you are - an evil loathsome *******.


You cut slack for someone who jacks off a little, defenseless bird and you call me evil, loathsome, fascist, etc. Nice.

> > > A fine example you are .. not!

> >
> > [insert Lesley's list here...]

>
> Indeed


Established. And the list isn't ad hominem: it links to your posts.

> > >>>not only the opportunity to engage in their natural courtship, etc., but
> > >>>every other facet of meaningful association with one of his own kind!
> > >>
> > >>That's irrelevant to a navel-gazing perv like Karen.
> > >
> > > It is certainly irrelevant to a factory 'farming' supporter like you.

> >
> > You object to consumption of *all* meat, so your arguments against
> > so-called "factory" farming are specious and beside the point.

>
> You support it


I support people having the right to pick and choose what they eat without coercion, just as you support the right of others to molest animals in the privacy of their own homes.

> you sick hypocrite.


You're the one who opposes animal molestation laws.
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pearl wrote:

> > >>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
> > >>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
> > >>
> > >>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
> > >>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
> > >>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
> > >>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> > >>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
> > >>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
> > >>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.
> > >

> > <...>
> >
> > > Here you see the group of priests with torches...

> >
> > It's silly pageantry, that's all.

>
> Now you're nice


I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for WASPs. The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where they mock the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.
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Karen Winter, who openly admits she gave a hand job to a cockatiel, wrote:

> I'm going to explain at a little more length for you, Pearl, because I
> respect you and I value your opinion.


You neither respect her nor value her opinion.

> We thought about getting a mate for the crippled cockatiel after he
> got stronger, and it might have been a good idea, but we decided against
> it for several reasons.


1. You enjoyed letting him have sex with your hand.

<snip tap-dancing sophistry>

> If he wanted to use my hand as a sex toy, I wasn't going
> to forbid him.


Of course you wouldn't, you're a real sicko.
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Skanky wrote:

> I am bisexual.


So you like to cover all your bases in case someone, *anyone*, is interested.

> Normally I wouldn't mention it here


Never stopped you before.

> but since I
> have mentioned it on other sites, it could probably be googled.


Like the stuff about being carless, etc.


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pearl wrote:

<...>
> Always question 'experts'.


Especially reflexologists, herbalists, naturopaths, etc.
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Skanky wrote:

> > > You're presuming I'm ***.

> >
> > It's normal for people to assume an unmarried woman of your age who
> > hasn't had a man in her life for some time has "different" preferences.

>
> Why are you assuming


It's not exactly an assumption, any more than the facts about your being a slacker, carless, etc., have been established.
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Skanky wrote:

> > How long has it been since you gave some guy booty so you could score
> > some weed?

>
> Yesterday. Twice.


Figures.
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"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> > > >>>>I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
> > > >>>>Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
> > > >>>>he was quite old when I adopted him, and he was definitely oriented
> > > >>>>toward humans. Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
> > > >>>>for him by denying him this release, when it did him no harm, and it
> > > >>>>did me no harm?
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Good grief, Karen Winter! The OBVIOUS and CORRECT thing to
> > > >>>do would have been to adopt a FEMALE cockatiel! *That* would
> > > >>>have been the *respectful* thing to do.
> > > >>
> > > >>Since when has Karen been respectful of anyone or anything?
> > > >
> > > > Since always.
> > >
> > > No. Never.

> >
> > You don't even know the meaning of the word.

>
> Someone who would call other people


You're not a person; you're a sick hateful stupid narcissistic lying little
fascist scumbag.

Stop presuming that you have any moral authority over people here
or anywhere else, you sick hateful stupid narcissistic lying hypocritical
animal abuse and mass murder supporting evil little fascist scum.

<not interested>






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chico chupacabra wrote:
> pearl wrote:
>
> <...>
>
>>Always question 'experts'.

>
>
> Especially reflexologists, herbalists, naturopaths, etc.


Because they have no expertise at all but pretend to have.


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pearl wrote:

> > > > >>>>I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
> > > > >>>>Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
> > > > >>>>he was quite old when I adopted him, and he was definitely oriented
> > > > >>>>toward humans. Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
> > > > >>>>for him by denying him this release, when it did him no harm, and it
> > > > >>>>did me no harm?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>>Good grief, Karen Winter! The OBVIOUS and CORRECT thing to
> > > > >>>do would have been to adopt a FEMALE cockatiel! *That* would
> > > > >>>have been the *respectful* thing to do.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>Since when has Karen been respectful of anyone or anything?
> > > > >
> > > > > Since always.
> > > >
> > > > No. Never.
> > >
> > > You don't even know the meaning of the word.

> >
> > Someone who would call other people

>
> You're not a person


You cut slack for someone who jacks off a little, defenseless bird and you call me evil, loathsome, fascist, etc. Nice.
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"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> > > >>>Back to Bohemian Grove and the satanic rituals conducted there,
> > > >>>you know - Skull & Bones, Bush, Hitler.. are you a member too?
> > > >>
> > > >>The stuff at Bohemian Grove isn't satanic (and has nothing to do with
> > > >>Hitler -- invoking Godwin). It's like a frat=house reunion, where people
> > > >>do silly things they would never do near prying eyes (juvenile stunts,
> > > >>not anything untoward). The "Cremation of Care" ritual is mock-pagan,
> > > >>not satanic, and is about leaving the dull cares of the world behind. I
> > > >>find all the conspiracy theories about it quite amusing, nevermind the
> > > >>fact that Alex has turned it into a cottage industry.
> > > >
> > > <...>
> > >
> > > > Here you see the group of priests with torches...
> > >
> > > It's silly pageantry, that's all.

> >
> > Now you're nicely exposed for what you are. Answer the questions.

>
> I always am. Bohemian Grove is nothing but an annual escape for WASPs.

The Cremation of Care is a meaningless dress-up pageant where they mock
the rituals of the daily grind. That's all.

No, it isn't.

'The German Brotherhood of Death Society is the Thule Society. Adolf Hitler
joined this society in 1919, becoming an adept under the leadership of Dietrich
Eckhart. Later, the Thule Society selected Hitler to be their leader of the New
World Order, as Eckhart revealed on his deathbed, saying, "Follow Hitler; he
will dance, but it is I who have called the tune. I have initiated him into the
Secret Doctrine, opened his centers in vision, and given him the means to
communicate with the powers." (Trevor Ravenscroft, The Spear Of Destiny,
p. 91).

In August, 1990, President George Bush announced that the world had now
entered into a New World Order. Shockingly President Bush is an adept in an
American Brotherhood of.. the Yale Skull and Bones Society. As we stated
earlier, Bush's New World Order is virtually identical with Hitler's; the key
connecting point is the common membership in their respective Brotherhood ..
(Behold A Pale Horse, p. 81; Introduction To The Order, p.7).

We will study this connection in depth today. Let us begin with a quick overview
of the Thule Society, beginning with a study of its practices and relevant history.

* They were Satanists who practiced Black Magic -- this means that they were
"solely concerned with raising their consciousness by means of rituals to
awareness of evil and nonhuman intelligences in the universe; and with achieving
means of communication with these intelligences." (Ravenscroft, p. 161).
Concentrate on that seemingly innocent word, rituals. Christians equate a ritual
to a church service, thereby not understanding its occultic meaning. The New
Age Dictionary defines ritual as a "ceremony to restore balance with nature...
and bring back lost harmony and sacredness." Remember we are dealing with
the Satanic world, where good is called evil and evil good. The sacredness
mentioned here is a Satanic sacredness. Rituals literally are proscribed activities
designed to allow demonic power to flow through the participants. These
activities are proscribed chants, formula wordings, and carefully planned actions.
As we noted last week, the effect is devastatingly powerful, as demonic force
pours through the participants, delivering a counterfeit spiritual experience
which literally transforms their lives. Never skip over the word ritual, as it is a
word of Satanic power.

* Thule members practiced a form of Sexual Magic derived from a lodge of
which Aleister Crowley was a member. Crowley was recognized as the foremost
worshipper of Satan in the 19th Century. "The origin of this...medieval magic...
can be traced to a Freemason, Robert Little, who founded the Societas
Rosicruciana in 1865... (Ravenscroft, Spear of Destiny, p. 164-5). While the
actual sexual perversions which were practiced are too offensive to share, the
results are not. Author Revenscroft stated that "indulgence in the most sadistic
rituals awakened penetrating vision into the workings of Evil Intelligences and
bestowed phenomenal magical powers." (Ibid. p. 167). This is the Thule Society.

Ravenscroft records its effect upon Hitler, "...sexual perversion took a central
place in [Hitler's] life...a monstrous sexual perversion was the very core of his
whole existence, the source of his mediumistic and clairvoyant powers, and the
motivation behind every act through which he reaped a sadistic vengeance on
humanity." (Ibid., p. 171).

Eckart's final act was to initiate Hitler into "a monstrous sadistic magic ritual...
after which he was sexually impotent. Hitler's impotency had a deep
psychological foundation. He knew sexual fulfillment through the extremes of
sadism and masochism... "(Ravenscroft, p. 155, 173). This impotency delivered
a final devastating blow to Hitler's psychological foundation, finally making him
into the sadistic murderer that history knows.
....
As Rosenbaum continued his research, he found definite links between Bones
and the Bavarian Illuminists. The Bavarian Illuminists were part of the original
Masters of the Illuminati. First, Rosenbaum discovered documents which detailed
the origins of Bones back to Germany. These documents stated, "Bones is a
chapter of a corps of a German University..." The document described at length
its relationship with this German Secret Society (the Thule Society) which lead
to the founding of the Skull and Bones in 1832.
......
The Skull and Bones also incorporates sexual activities into their practices.
"The death of the initiate will be as frightful as the use of human skeletons and
ritual psychology can make it..." (Esquire Magazine, "The Last Secrets of
Skull and Bones", Ron Rosenbaum, p. 89). Sexual perversion is part of ritual
psychology. Ron Rosenbaum, author of the Esquire Magazine article, stated
that on initiation night, called tap night, "...if one could climb to the tower of
Weir Hall, the odd castle that overlooks the Bones courtyard, one could hear
strange cries and moans coming from the bowels of the tomb as the 15 newly
tapped members were put through what sounded like a harrowing ordeal..."
(Esquire, September, 1976, p. 86).

Further,[initiates] "lay naked in coffins and tell their deepest and darkest sexual
secrets as part of their initiation." (Esquire, p. 85). These experiences in the
coffins incorporated sexual pain and resulted in being born-again, into the Order,
as we mentioned above. (Cooper, p.95) Powerful force charges through the
participants of these ceremonies, transforming their lives dramatically. This type
ritual is classic Satanism. Anton LaVey states, in his book The Satanic Rituals:
Companion To The Satanic Bible, (p. 57)

"The ceremony of rebirth takes place in a large coffin..This is similar to the
coffin symbolism that...is found in most lodge rituals." Make no mistake about
it: Any organization which utilizes this coffin ritual to simulate rebirth is practising
Satanism, including Skull and Bones.
.......'
http://web.archive.org/web/200410120.../nwothule.html

'The program cover for the ceremony "Cremation of Care" depicts a skeleton,
a demon, and the huge owl illuminated by flames. A small white drawing above
the name of the director depicts a demon or devil with the initials PJ sweeping
something up with a witch's broom.

See exclusive video stills of the ceremony at the website:
http://www.infowars.com/bg1.html

Watch actual video clips of the ceremony at:
http://www.infowars.com/videos.html

Descriptions of the video clips are as follows:

Here you see the group of priests with torches, in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The high priest is rationalizing the fact that human sacrifice brings beauty
into the world.

Here you see the group of priests with torches in red, black and silver hooded
robes. The priest praises the owl-god and tells everyone to be reverend before him.

This clip shows the boatman in black-hooded garb journeying across the lake
to the owl god, Molak, with the human effigy (we hope) sacrifice. The boatman's
face was painted to resemble that of a skull. The priests on the right await their victim.

Watch and hear the screams as the simulated human sacrifice takes place to the
great owl of Babylon. Midsummer is the high holy point for luciferians and occultists
- hear the priest's words as he burns the effigy - "once again midsummer sets us free."
....
Ask any Native American elder. When Owl manifests in a stone form, it means a
lack of empathy. Shamans the world over manifest their power animals as living
beings, just as they are in nature, not as stone idols. . When people begin to see
their power animals as stone idols it means they have lost their empathy with the
four leggeds of the animal kingdom, and with the two leggeds, the humans.
It means they are pursuing self interest over service to others.
....'
http://www.angelfire.com/scifi/newstart/bohemian-grove/

> >> and that
> >> Israelis should sit back and take all those

> >
> > DU armaments from the USA

>
> We should be sending them even more weapons than we are.


Of course you think that, you monster.

> >> Iranian-funded missiles from
> >> Hezbollah up their asses and forgive and forget about Shalit and anyone
> >> else Hamas and Hezbollah want to kidnap and kill.

> >
> > You'd like us to forget about the the murders in Gaza

>
> Which ones? The ones in retaliation for suicide bombings? I don't
> consider targeting buildings where explosive vests or rockets are being
> made to constitute murder.


Friday, 9 June 2006, 18:28 GMT 19:28 UK

Palestinians killed on Gaza beach

The shelling has caused outrage among Palestinians

Seven people, including three children, have been killed by Israeli shells
which hit a beach in the northern Gaza Strip, Palestinian officials say.

At least 30 people were wounded in the shelling, they say.

The Israeli military says it has halted all shelling of Gaza and has
launched an inquiry into whether ground-based artillery could have
been involved.

In a statement, the military wing of Hamas threatened to resume attacks
on Israel in the wake of "massacres".

The group has been observing a self-imposed ceasefire for more than a year.

Although there have been threats of a response to other attacks in recent
months, the BBC's Simon Wilson in Jerusalem says the move is significant
because it appears on the official website of the armed wing of the group.

There was no immediate word from the political wing of Hamas, which
dominates the government in the Palestinian Authority.

Four other people were also killed in separate Israeli air strike in northern
Gaza on Friday, Palestinians said.
....'
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5065008.stm

> > and the many thousands
> > of Palestinians rotting away in Israeli prisons - including women and children.

>
> You say "children," I say "juveniles." Why are they imprisoned or in
> camps? Because they've presented a danger to [you won't say "other
> children" so I'll say] Israeli soldiers or Israeli citizens (Arab
> Christians and Jews alike). Same for women who are known associates of
> terrorists.


'Former Israel Prime Minster, Yitzhak Rabin, said in an uncensored
version of his memoirs, published in the New York Times on 23 October
23rd, 1979:

'We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his
question - What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion
waved his hand in a gesture which said "Drive them out!"'

And that's what they did.

The Arabs were driven out of power or consequence in their own land by
Zionist terrorist groups like Hagana, Irgun and the Stern Gang (also known
as Lehi) who bombed and assassinated Arabs, fellow Jews and the British
administrators who had control over Palestine under a mandate from the
League of Nations and the Versailles Peace Conference. 'Palestine' was
then the region we now call Israel, Jordan, the West Bank and Gaza Strip,
formerly belonging to the Ottoman Empire.

This Zionist terrorism led to the imposition of the Jewish state in 1948
when 750,000 or more Arabic people were expelled from their own land.
Among the major players in these and other terrorist operations were
Menachem Begin, Yitzhak Shamir and Ariel Sharon, butchers who became
Israeli Prime Ministers and had the nerve to condemn Arab terrorism.
......
It is claimed that everything started with the kidnapping of the Israeli
soldiers, but we need to go back at least to June 9th when Israel shelled
a beach in Gaza killing eight Palestinians and injuring 32 civilians,
including 13 children. The dead included seven members of one family.
The Israeli government offered its 'deep regret', but this outrage was no
accident. It was part of the process of instigating a reaction so that
what has happened since could unfold.

On June 13th ,an Israeli plane fired at a vehicle on a busy Gaza road and
when civilians hurried to help the injured another missile was fired into
the crowd. Eleven Palestinians died, including two medical staff and two
children.

Come on, the Israeli government was saying - retaliate. We have the gun
clocked, we're ready to go, and we just need you to give us the excuse to
pull the trigger.

If Arab people had done the same they would have been called terrorists,
the pimps of the 'world community' would have been red-faced in their
condemnation, and Israel's American-funded military would have done
what have these past ten days.

The outrageous double-standards are just sickening. I saw some former
Israel military commander this week saying how terrible it was that Israeli
children had to be sitting in bomb shelters in Haifa when, as she spoke
those words, children were being killed by Israeli bombs in Lebanon.

But then Israeli Prime Minister and terrorist, Menachem Begin, told the
Israeli parliament that Palestinians 'are beasts walking on two legs' and
another Prime Minister and terrorist, Yitzhak Shamir, said in a speech to
Jewish settlers that the Palestinians 'would would be crushed like
grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls'. ('Begin
and the 'Beasts', New Statesman, June 25, 1982, and Yitzhak Shamir
quoted in the New York Times April 1st, 1988). That is what they really
think.
...
The creation of Israel was never an end in itself. It has always been a
means to an end. All along, the plan has been to target the Islamic world
to trigger a global war that would set the world ablaze and lead to the
'solution' of centralised control of the planet and all its peoples. To do
that they needed to create a point of conflict, a power keg, among the
Arab countries that could be exploded to start another global conflict.
This is the real reason for the creation of Israel and the real reason why
the United States has spent its billions building up Israel's might and
military.
...
This is the historical background, the falling dominoes, that have led to
what is happening today with hundreds of Lebanese killed, more than
half a million made refugees, and missiles killing and maiming Israelis
who are manipulated and programmed by their own sick government to
believe the Big Lie.

Of course, Arab terrorism is equally wrong. Violence just begets
violence, only peace begets peace. Every kidnapping, death and injury
is a personal and family tragedy and none is more or less important than
any other. The sight of the Hezbollah leader, Hassan Nasrallah, calling
two Arab children in Israel killed by Hezbollah rockets 'martyrs for
Palestine' was gut-wrenching. There are idiots and terrorist fanatics on
both sides and I have no illusions about the suppression of freedom in
Syria or Iran either. It is a case of seeing the big picture in which the
monstrous game is being played out and putting the Arab response into
its historical context.
....
http://lookingglassnews.org/viewstory.php?storyid=6814

'As a result of their visible activity in the current Intifada, Palestinian
women have not escaped the mass arrest campaigns. Palestinian women
in detention are subjected to mistreatment on a daily basis and are often
held in cells and sections with Israeli criminal prisoners. Regular body
searches are performed with brutality by prison guards; sexual harassment
occurs frequently; the right to elect a representative for their collective
demands is not recognized as in other prisons; solitary confinement is
often used as a form of punishment; detainees are prohibited from going
outside regularly or of using the canteen; cell searches and confiscation
of personal belongings is a common practice; and attacks on women by
beating or firing tear gas into cells occur regularly.

At the end of 2004, there were over 120 Palestinian women being held by
Israeli authorities. The number has steadily increased over the years of
the Intifada making this the largest number of female detainees held by
Israel in two-decades. Female prisoners are placed in 2 central prisons,
Neve Tresta and Hasharon-Telmond.

17 of these women are mothers, two women, Mervat Taha and Manal
Ghanem, gave birth while in detention and Manal continues to live with
her child, Nour, inside the prison. Mervat was recently released with her
son, Wa'el, now 2 years old has lived his entire life inside the prison.
There are currently eight girls (under age 18) inside Israeli jails in
addition to a number of women who have turned 18 while they were
imprisoned. Israel detains children as young as 12 years old, in blatant
contravention of the internationally accepted designation of any individual
under the age of 18 as a child. Israeli military regulations stipulate that a
child is anyone under the age of 16, whilst Israeli law stipulates this age
to be under 18.

Many Palestinian women prisoners are transferred to Neve Tertza Prison,
one of six sections of Ramleh Prison after their interrogation process.
Here Palestinian female detainees remain detained within the same section
as Israeli criminal female prisoners accused of crimes such as murder,
theft, drug use, and prostitution. Mixing Palestinian prisoners with Israeli
criminal prisoners has created a great deal of tension within the prison,
particularly as political prisoners should be separated from other categories
of prisoners.

The prison administration continues to humiliate Palestinian female prisoners
by forcing them to strip in front of prison guards while their hands are cuffed,
and then to dress before these same guards. The administration conducts
regular searches of prison cells, confiscating personal property and papers.

The prison administration has diligently worked at breaking the unity of the
female detainees by isolating them from the outside world and preventing
family visits. Correspondence to and from the prison is also prohibited, and
newspapers are allowed in the prison but are delayed by a few days. Visits
amongst other prisoners are prevented and daily breaks have been reduced
to half an hour. Palestinian women prisoners at Neve Tertza Prison reported
that their conditions of detention were extremely difficult, with no glass
protecting windows in the cells and insects and vermin found throughout the
prison. Because of the prevention of family visits, prisoners do not have
adequate winter clothing or extra food to supplement the small food portions
they receive in prison.

Some Palestinian female prisoners have been arrested as a means of placing
pressure on their husbands. Asma' Abu el-Hayja, for example, who is 40
years old and is suffering from brain cancer, is being held in an administrative
detention in order to pressure her husband who is also under detention.
Mrs. Ablaa' Saadat was arrested on 21 January 2003 as she travelled as a
Palestinian representative to the World Social Forum in Brazil. Saadat is the
wife of the General Secretary of the Popular Front for the Liberation of
Palestine (PFLP). She was give four months administrative detention
following her arrest. She was told by an interrogator that her arrest was
merely a demonstration that 'they' can do whatever they want. She was also
told that if her husband had 'blood on his hands' they would kill her children.

http://www.addameer.org/detention/women.html

>>>>>> You have tried to defend and cover up the most
>>>>>> heinous crimes against humanity,

>
>>>>> Examples?

>
>>>> Mass murder through 'war'

>
>> >Where's your contempt for those who started it? Oh wait, you think the
>> >planes were flown by remote control and it just happened to have some
>> >fellows who'd trained in bin Laden's camps in Afghanistan;

> >
> >You wish to discuss 911? OK. Start by refuting this:
> >http://www.physics.byu.edu/research/energy/htm7.html


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones#Critics


'In 1973, Jones earned his bachelors degree in physics, magna *** laude,
from Brigham Young University, and his PhD in physics from Vanderbilt
University in 1978. Jones conducted his PhD research at the Stanford Linear
Accelerator Center (from 1974 to 1977), and post-doctoral research at
Cornell University and the Los Alamos Meson Physics Facility.

Research interests and background

Jones conducted research at the Idaho National Engineering Laboratory,
in Arco, Idaho, from 1979 to 1985, where he was a senior engineering
specialist. He was the principal investigator for experimental muon-catalyzed
fusion from 1982 to 1991 for the U.S. Department of Energy, Division of
Advanced Energy Projects. From 1990 to 1993, Jones researched fusion in
condensed matter and deuterium, for the U.S. Department of Energy and
for the Electric Power Research Institute.

Jones has also been a collaborator in several experiments, including
experiments at TRIUMF (Vancouver, British Columbia), The National
High Energy Laboratory, KEK (Tsukuba, Japan), and the Rutherford
Appleton Laboratory at Oxford University.

Jones specializes in Metal-catalyzed fusion, Archaeometry and Solar
energy [2].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_E._Jones

'Here are some of the kinds of considerations that these experts and
scholars find profoundly troubling:

* In the history of structural engineering, steel-frame high-rise buildings
have never been brought down due to fires either before or since 9/11,
so how can fires have brought down three in one day? How is this possible?

* The BBC has reported that at least five of the nineteen alleged "hijackers"
have turned up alive and well living in Saudi Arabia, yet according to the
FBI, they were among those killed in the attacks. How is this possible?

* Frank DeMartini, a project manager for the WTC, said the buildings
were designed with load redistribution capabilities to withstand the
impact of airliners, whose effects would be like "puncturing mosquito
netting with a pencil." Yet they completely collapsed. How is this possible?

* Since the melting point of steel is about 2,700°F, the temperature of
jet fuel fires does not exceed 1,800°F under optimal conditions, and
UL certified the steel used to 2,000°F for six hours, the buildings
cannot have collapsed due to heat from the fires. How is this possible?
...
Their own physics research has established that only controlled
demolitions are consistent with the near-gravity speed of fall and virtually
symmetrical collapse of all three of the WTC buildings. While turning
concrete into very fine dust, they fell straight-down into their own footprints.
...'
http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/P...30Jan2006.html

Answer the questions, 'chico'.




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"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> <...>
> > Always question 'experts'.

>
> Especially reflexologists, herbalists, naturopaths, etc.


You're an 'expert' on it all, I suppose. LOL!


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"chico chupacabra" > wrote in message ...
> pearl wrote:
>
> > > > > >>>>I lived with a cockatiel who regularly masturbated on my hand.
> > > > > >>>>Poor little guy, he was never going to have another bird as a mate,
> > > > > >>>>he was quite old when I adopted him, and he was definitely oriented
> > > > > >>>>toward humans. Why should I make his last few years less pleasant
> > > > > >>>>for him by denying him this release, when it did him no harm, and it
> > > > > >>>>did me no harm?
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>Good grief, Karen Winter! The OBVIOUS and CORRECT thing to
> > > > > >>>do would have been to adopt a FEMALE cockatiel! *That* would
> > > > > >>>have been the *respectful* thing to do.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>Since when has Karen been respectful of anyone or anything?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since always.
> > > > >
> > > > > No. Never.
> > > >
> > > > You don't even know the meaning of the word.
> > >
> > > Someone who would call other people

> >
> > You're not a person; you're a sick hateful stupid narcissistic lying little

fascist scumbag.

> You cut slack for someone who jacks off a little, defenseless bird
> and you call me evil, loathsome, fascist, etc. Nice.


Stop presuming that you have any moral authority over people here
or anywhere else, you sick hateful stupid narcissistic lying hypocritical
animal abuse and mass murder supporting evil little fascist scum.



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cheeky upchuck wrote:
> It's not exactly an assumption, any more than the facts about your being a slacker, carless, etc., have been established.


You're just too ridiculous. Please prove all of these conclusively.

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