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  #136 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 11:54 AM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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"Leif Erikson" wrote in message nk.net...
Glorfindel wrote:

Leif Erikson wrote:

pearl wrote:



snip

And just to be clear, you *do* endorse bestiality:

*As long as the feelings are mutual*,
and there's *no coercion or force involved,* why
should you be concerned? Personally, I have no
problem with people's personal choices *as long as
they don't harm or cause distress to another*- be it
human or animal. [emphasis in original]
http://tinyurl.com/dwzj7



From an AR point of view. What people do in the privacy of

their own home may be sick as hell, but as long as they're not
harming or causing distress to another - that's their business.

Or as Glorfindel put it:

I don't think I have a right to prevent people by force
from doing things which cause no harm to another,
human or animal. There may be things which religious
groups regard as sin, but in a non-theocratic state, religious
groups only have the authority to enforce their views on
their own members. There may be things I dislike or regard
as wrong, but unless they cause *harm* -- harm which can
be objectively observed -- I do not have the right to enforce
my opinion on others against their will.

Snip it again, ball.

"I think it's so cute that you erase the parts you just dont like
snicker.....FYI.. this stuff is ARCHIVED.... snicker
http://www.iol.ie/~creature/boiled%20ball.html






  #137 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 01:55 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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Leif Erikson wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:


Why do you claim I am not qualified to know?


Because you never studied this the relevant disciplines in science.


I have.


snip


*smile*

So, as I expected, you have bailed on any attempt to defend your
opinion on the morality of conditioning, or to defend your
mistaken scientific opinion on imprinting/socialization of animals
and later mating behavior. You have returned to lies about people.
You really are incompetent at any discussion of animals or ethics
at all, so, unless you want to address the *topic* I see no point
in continuing with this thread.

  #138 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 04:04 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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lesley the slut of Cork lied:

"Leif Erikson" wrote in message ink.net...

Karen Winter lied:


Leif Erikson wrote:

Karen Winter lied:


Why do you claim I am not qualified to know?


Because you never studied this the relevant disciplines in science.


I have.


You have not, Karen.



What makes you think that you are qualified to know that?


She has stated that she studied history at university.
Then she got a job shampooing cats. She hasn't
studied biology, zoology, anatomy or any other science
at the university level. Neither have you.
  #139 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 04:13 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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lesley the slut of Cork lied:

"Leif Erikson" wrote in message nk.net...

Karen Winter blabbered:


Leif Erikson wrote:


lesley the slut of Cork lied:


snip

And just to be clear, you *do* endorse bestiality:

*As long as the feelings are mutual*,
and there's *no coercion or force involved,* why
should you be concerned? Personally, I have no
problem with people's personal choices *as long as
they don't harm or cause distress to another*- be it
human or animal. [emphasis in original]
http://tinyurl.com/dwzj7


From an AR point of view. What people do in the privacy of


their own home may be sick as hell, but as long as they're not
harming or causing distress to another - that's their business.


So you endorse it. You don't condemn it. Saying it's
"their business" is endorsement of it.


Or as Karen Winter put it:

I don't think I have a right to prevent people by force
from doing things which cause no harm to another,
human or animal.


That's endorsement of it, too.
  #140 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 04:15 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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Karen Winter blabbered:

Leif Erikson wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:


No, Leif Erikson did *not* write "Glorfindel wrote".
Leif Erikson wrote "Karen Winter blabbered". Leave it.




Why do you claim I am not qualified to know?



Because you never studied this the relevant disciplines in science.



I have.



snip


restore
You have not, Karen. You studied history, and you
dabbled in some worthless navel-gazing bullshit called
"creative anachronism". You have not studied biology
and zoology - not ever. Stop lying.




*smile*


You used to write "*smile*" and "*yawn*" when you used
"Rat", too.


  #141 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 04:38 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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"Leif Erikson" wrote in message ink.net...

pearl wrote


"Leif Erikson" wrote in message ink.net...

Glorfindel wrote:


Leif Erikson wrote:

Glorfindel wrote:

Why do you claim I am not qualified to know?


Because you never studied this the relevant disciplines in science.


I have.

You have not, Karen.



What makes you think that you are qualified to know that?


She has stated that she studied history at university.
Then she got a job shampooing cats. She hasn't
studied biology, zoology, anatomy or any other science
at the university level. Neither have you.


You don't know what we've studied.

Where did you learn that "no animal anticipates", as you have
repeatedly claimed? What are your qualifications in the field?

Where did you study various aspects of rape, and anatomy?

"Jonathan Ball" wrote in message
link.net...

Rubystars wrote:

..
not only because rape is violence,


Ipse dixit, and petitio principii.

but because it could cause all manner of problems in those young children.


It *could*, but it wouldn't necessarily, and in fact
usually wouldn't. Your standard crumbles further...

Damage to the vagina or anus, STDs, etc. but your claim that penetration of
children is not violent,


It is not _intrinsically_ violent. It cannot be
defined as violent _per se_.

is demonstrably wrong, due to soreness and bleeding
from both the anus and the vagina.


No. Those might not happen, and as I said, almost
assuredly won't happen with girls 13 or older.

Keep in mind that grown ups are much
larger than children.


They are not always much larger than early adolescents.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why are you defending the rape of children, jonathan ball?







  #142 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 04:43 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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"Leif Erikson" wrote in message ink.net...

pearl wrote:

"Leif Erikson" wrote in message nk.net...

Glorfindel wrote:


Leif Erikson wrote:


pearl wrote:


snip

And just to be clear, you *do* endorse bestiality:

*As long as the feelings are mutual*,
and there's *no coercion or force involved,* why
should you be concerned? Personally, I have no
problem with people's personal choices *as long as
they don't harm or cause distress to another*- be it
human or animal. [emphasis in original]
http://tinyurl.com/dwzj7


From an AR point of view. What people do in the privacy of

their own home may be sick as hell, but as long as they're not
harming or causing distress to another - that's their business.


So you endorse it. You don't condemn it. Saying it's
"their business" is endorsement of it.


Saying it is sick as hell is condemnation.

Or as Karen Winter put it:

I don't think I have a right to prevent people by force
from doing things which cause no harm to another,
human or animal. There may be things which religious
groups regard as sin, but in a non-theocratic state, religious
groups only have the authority to enforce their views on
their own members. There may be things I dislike or regard
as wrong, but unless they cause *harm* -- harm which can
be objectively observed -- I do not have the right to enforce
my opinion on others against their will.

That's endorsement of it, too.


No it isn't. She has agreed that it is a perversion.

Stop lying, ball - if you can. I think you can't.



  #143 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 04:52 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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Leif Erikson wrote:

Pearl wrote:

snip
What makes you think that you are qualified to know that?


snip

He isn't. And he is wrong. I have indeed studied animal
biology, ethology, and behavior at a university level,
and I also have practical experience with both domestic
and exotic animals.

None of that is required, however, to deal with the issue
at hand. All that is necessary is reading the material
available in print and on the Internet. Anyone can do it,
but Leif and his various nyms do not appear to be willing
to do the basic research necessary for an informed opinion.

Look up "imprinting" and "socialization" and "wildlife
rehabilitation". The earliest modern resource is
Konrad Lorenz, who pioneered the scientific concept of
imprinting, working with birds. All people working
with re-releasing captive-bred wild species, or with
natural behavior of such species, cover the subject.

  #144 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 05:22 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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"Glorfindel" wrote in message ...
Leif Erikson wrote:

Pearl wrote:

snip
What makes you think that you are qualified to know that?


snip

He isn't. And he is wrong. I have indeed studied animal
biology, ethology, and behavior at a university level,
and I also have practical experience with both domestic
and exotic animals.

None of that is required, however, to deal with the issue
at hand. All that is necessary is reading the material
available in print and on the Internet. Anyone can do it,
but Leif and his various nyms do not appear to be willing
to do the basic research necessary for an informed opinion.

Look up "imprinting" and "socialization" and "wildlife
rehabilitation". The earliest modern resource is
Konrad Lorenz, who pioneered the scientific concept of
imprinting, working with birds. All people working
with re-releasing captive-bred wild species, or with
natural behavior of such species, cover the subject.


I don't doubt you. In fact one of my roosters will do his/their
sweet little courtship dance if near enough. I raised him/them,
albeit together with mom and chicks. Now I understand why.





  #145 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 05:26 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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Chelsea foot-rubbing harlot wrote:

Why do you claim I am not qualified to know?


Because you never studied this the relevant disciplines in science.


I have.

You have not, Karen.


What makes you think that you are qualified to know that?


She has stated that she studied history at university.
Then she got a job shampooing cats. She hasn't
studied biology, zoology, anatomy or any other science
at the university level. Neither have you.



You don't know what we've studied.


Uh huh. You failed out of engineering school and ended up learning
"reflexology" from new age hippie conmen:

I am a qualified Reflexologist and received my training in

London.
http://tinyurl.com/mh7a

Reflexology is pseudoscience:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexo...cientific_view

My favorite episode of P&T's BULLSHIT was this part quoted in the above:
On the TV programm Bullshit!, Penn Jillette compared reflexology
to hitting the tires of your car in order to change the
sparkplugs.

Hahahaha!

snip


  #146 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 05:28 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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pearl wrote:

...
Or as Karen Winter put it:


I don't think I have a right to prevent people by force
from doing things which cause no harm to another,
human or animal.


IOW, you don't object to humans ****ing animals. Case closed.

...
  #147 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 05:42 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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"chico chupacabra" wrote in message ...

pearl wrote:

...
Or as Karen Winter put it:


I don't think I have a right to prevent people by force
from doing things which cause no harm to another,
human or animal.


IOW, you don't object to humans ****ing animals. Case closed.


What case? I told you back then that I think it is a perversion.

Whether I think there should be a law against it is another question.


  #148 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 05:45 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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"chico chupacabra" wrote in message ...

Chelsea foot-rubbing harlot wrote:


Lies # 1, 2 and 3.

Why do you claim I am not qualified to know?


Because you never studied this the relevant disciplines in science.


I have.

You have not, Karen.


What makes you think that you are qualified to know that?

She has stated that she studied history at university.
Then she got a job shampooing cats. She hasn't
studied biology, zoology, anatomy or any other science
at the university level. Neither have you.



You don't know what we've studied.


Uh huh. You failed out of engineering school and ended up learning
"reflexology" from new age hippie conmen:


Lie #4.

I am a qualified Reflexologist and received my training in

London.
http://tinyurl.com/mh7a

Reflexology is pseudoscience:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexo...cientific_view

BULLSHIT


  #149 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 06:03 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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"pearl" wrote in message ...
"chico chupacabra" wrote in message ...

Chelsea foot-rubbing harlot wrote:


Lies # 1, 2 and 3.

Why do you claim I am not qualified to know?


Because you never studied this the relevant disciplines in science.


I have.

You have not, Karen.


What makes you think that you are qualified to know that?

She has stated that she studied history at university.
Then she got a job shampooing cats. She hasn't
studied biology, zoology, anatomy or any other science
at the university level. Neither have you.


You don't know what we've studied.


Uh huh. You failed out of engineering school and ended up learning
"reflexology" from new age hippie conmen:


Lie #4


- and 5.

I am a qualified Reflexologist and received my training in

London.
http://tinyurl.com/mh7a

Reflexology is pseudoscience:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflexo...cientific_view

BULLSHIT




  #150 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 01-08-2006, 06:08 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals
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lesley the sick slut of Cork lied:
"Leif Erikson" wrote in message ink.net...

lesley the sick slut of Cork lied:

"Leif Erikson" wrote in message nk.net...

Karen Winter the schismatic ex-Episcopalian blabbered:


Leif Erikson wrote:


lesley the sick slut of Cork lied:


snip

And just to be clear, you *do* endorse bestiality:

*As long as the feelings are mutual*,
and there's *no coercion or force involved,* why
should you be concerned? Personally, I have no
problem with people's personal choices *as long as
they don't harm or cause distress to another*- be it
human or animal. [emphasis in original]
http://tinyurl.com/dwzj7


From an AR point of view. What people do in the privacy of
their own home may be sick as hell, but as long as they're not
harming or causing distress to another - that's their business.


So you endorse it. You don't condemn it. Saying it's
"their business" is endorsement of it.


Saying it is sick as hell is condemnation.


No. Saying "that is WRONG and BAD, and you shoud STOP it" is
condemning it. Saying that what people do in the privacy of their own
homes is their own business, is an endorsement of it.


Or as Karen Winter put it:

I don't think I have a right to prevent people by force
from doing things which cause no harm to another,
human or animal.


That's endorsement of it, too.


No it isn't.


Yes, it is. It's the same thing you're saying, in effect: "live and
let live". Pity you two fascist ****s won't apply that to people's
choices of foods.



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