On 12 Jul 2006 03:56:16 -0700, "Arthur Brain" wrote:


dd wrote:
The right to life is possible only in a certain, different atmosphere that

There is no such right.

is not present on the earth at the moment. Animals are killed, birds are
killed, sea animals are killed, just for game. You don't have any reverence

So? Whereever there is life, there must also - inevitably - be death.

There is no reason why we shouldn't kill plants or animals if it suits
us.

for life. And life is the same whether it is in human beings or in other
forms. Unless man becomes aware of his violence towards animals, birds, he
cannot be really alert about his own right to life. If you are not caring

There is no such right.

about others' lives, what right have you got to demand the same right for
yourself?

Human rights only apply to animals in Cloud Cuckoo Land.

Do *you* live in Cloud Cuckoo Land?

But the whole of humanity is non-vegetarian; they are all eating other life
forms. There is no reverence for life as such. Unless we create an
atmosphere of reverence for life, man cannot realize the goal of getting his
fundamental right of life.

So what are you gong to eat, if you can't eat "other life forms"?

· Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following items containing animal by-products
in order to be successful:

Tires, Paper, Upholstery, Floor waxes, Glass, Water
Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer, Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides,
Insulation, Linoleum, Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen,
Heparin, Insulin, Solvents, Biodegradable Detergents, Herbicides,
Gelatin Capsules, Adhesive Tape, Laminated Wood Products,
Plywood, Paneling, Wallpaper and Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane
Wrap and Tape, Abrasives, Steel Ball Bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die as a result of it
as animals do in other habitats. They also depend on it for
their lives as animals do in other habitats. If people consume
animal products from animals they think are raised in decent
ways, they will be promoting life for more such animals in the
future. People who want to contribute to decent lives for
livestock with their lifestyle must do it by being conscientious
consumers of animal products, because they can not do it by
being vegan.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ·

the health insurance companies should lower the premium of veggie guys by
40pct and tag a 50pct meat surcahrge.
just like they treat smoking.


"Beach Runner" wrote in message
ups.com...

rick wrote:
"Beach Runner" wrote in message
ups.com...

rick wrote:
"Beach Runner" wrote in message
oups.com...

Arthur Brain wrote:
nemo wrote:
As part of a balanced, and varied diet, my beef will allow
me
to grow
strong, while you vegans grow stunted, pale and pasty with
poor
eyesight and thin brittle bones.

That's the first silly statement. Poor eyesight, pale, pasty,
eyesight.
That's absurd.


Your beef will increase cardio vascular disease,
osteoperosis,
cancer
of the colon, lacks any fiber, is pumped full of
hormones,many
with
antibitotics,
and wasting much energy and especially water. Growing and
rendering a
cow
uses enough water to float a battleship.
===============================
Actually, NO to all your claims above fool.

Tell us about all the wasted water especially. I'm anxious to
hear that particular ly from you...

Sir, perhaps you might start to do the arithmetic.
================
Idiot, you might first learn a thing or two...


First you have
all the water requirements to grow for 12 times as much produce
as if people simply ate the produce.
=============================
"produce?" Fed to cattle? What a hoot!!! Show me any
requirement to feed "produce" to beef cattle...

Most of the corn grown in America is feed to cattle. Cattle is a
produce.

Then, again, give me the numbers for this extrme amount of
'wasted' water. Why can't you do that?



Then you have to supply the
water to the cattle. Not a huge amount. The a huge amount
of water is required to render the animal.
=======================
ROTFLMAO

If you'd like the data from a non biased source, simply go to
http://wrrc.p2pays.org/p2rx/subsecti...TOKEN=71483890

This is from professional documentation on the Waste Reduction Resource
Center.

"Meat Processing Water Consumption: Like many other food processing
activities, the necessity for hygiene and quality control in meat
processing results in high water usage and consequently high wastewater
generation. Volumes of wastewater from meat processing are generally
80-95 percent of the total freshwater consumption (MRC, 1995). The
United Nations Environmental Program, Cleaner Production Assessment in
Meat Processing (2000), estimates a range of 1,100 to 4,400 gallons of
water are used per live weight ton of slaughtered animal in the United
States. Between 44-60 percent of water is consumed in the slaughter,
evisceration and boning areas (MRC, 1995). The following table
illustrates the breakdown of water consumption in beef and pork
processing based on a study of Australian abattoirs."



There are many places on the network this can be easily
verified.
Here's one of many URLs.
http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/classes/...es/hunger1.htm
====================
Hype and propaganda, fool....
Wanna know how I know? This little ly that keeps getting passed
on and on by AR/vegan loons without any cite.
"...50% of the water withdrawn every year in the US to irrigate
crops fed to livestock and to wash away manure..."
Here's a site that will expalin water withdrawals in the US to
you. It's written for school children, but you should be able to
follow along...
http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/totpie95.html

Total irragation, livestock, and aquaculture withdrawals are only
about 36%.








Your knowledge of osteoporsis is clearly nil. You might
choose
to read
the "Bone Density Diet" by Dr. George Kesller, foremost
expert
on
Osteoporosis.
Meat leaches calcium from the cells, and should be eaten
sparingly if
at all. There is no reason at all the eat meat.

And of course, you made the claim that beef is somehow good
for osteoporosis. I suggest you might want to read
the Bone Density Diet, by Dr. George Kessler, the foremost
expert on Osteoporosis. He provides all the equations.



This ignored that suffering of factory manufactured cattle.
===================
Why do you ignore the far more brutal, inhumane deaths that
aniomals suffer in the factory-farming of your veggies,
hypocrite?


That's a silly argument. Of course there are collateral
damages.
But you only need to eat a fraction of the produce necessary.
In any
case, mechanized production of harvesting is not the same as
taking
animals and using them as products.
============================
Really? Why not fool? Aren't they just as dead? Why does the
method of their death matter so much to you? Why does the
disposition of the bodies mean so much to you? Why is it that
the far more brutal, inhumane deaths that animals experience in
factory-farmed veggies mean nothing to you?

First, the degree is far less. Secondly, all that collateral damage
would
occur with production for cattle, only far more. And then there of
course
is intention.



Once again, you have failed to address the original error you
posted,
that somehow eating beef avoids osteoporosis. Beef does not
contain anything but trace amounts of
calcium, but large amounts of calcium are required to break it
down.
==========================
http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/16/v...m_myths_05.htm

Oh your kidding. Mercola? That quack? Next you'll quote Dr.
Atkinson.
Of course, you stuck Osteoporosis and Beef into google and you came up
with Mercola. Big freaking deal.

Do you know anything about how calcium is used in in the body? The
effect of phosphoric acid and why it effects calcium levels? Just be
honest.
Do you understand the relationship of calcium to protein?





A quick google search will show some sites which support
eating beef. It's pretty funny to see who supports it.
=======================
A quick search also does not say to avoid meat altogether...

Who cares if people avoid meat altogether. That's not what I responded
to. I responded to your statement that eating meat will avoid
osteoporosis.




Frankly, anyone that can't understand that eating food that
requires
10 to 12 times more produce, drinks water it's entire life, and
is
ignorant
and about the use of water in rendering, (which uses more water
than
the rest put together) lacks the basic understanding to engage
in
anything but emotional diatribes.
============================
LOL The ignorance is all yours, fool. I've provided data, now

What data? You provided a pointer to a quack.

it's YOUR turn to back up some of your ignorant spews and lys.
I'll wait... The only one here with nothing but emotional spew
is you fool. You've yet to back up your lys and delusions.

amazing....


If you can offer some science, let me know. Till them, remain
ignorant.
Enjoy your heart disease. You might want to get a dexa scan
and
see where you really are. Frankly, meat isn't the main cause of
the
huge explosion of osteoporosis, it's drinking soda. But, I'm
sure
you didn't know that.

Oh yes genius, enjoy eating your "aniomals"
=============================
LOL I rest my case, you have nothing, killer. Should I now
submit all posts to you for spell-checking? At least maybe
you'll be useful at something.

The original discussion was on osteoporosis. The tremendous
consumption of water. The third is your inability to discuss
something without emotional displays.







Have Run
Bob

"Beach Runner" wrote in message
ups.com...

rick wrote:
"Beach Runner" wrote in message
ups.com...

rick wrote:
"Beach Runner" wrote in message
oups.com...

Arthur Brain wrote:
nemo wrote:
As part of a balanced, and varied diet, my beef will
allow
me
to grow
strong, while you vegans grow stunted, pale and pasty
with
poor
eyesight and thin brittle bones.

That's the first silly statement. Poor eyesight, pale, pasty,
eyesight.
That's absurd.
=======================
I didn't write that fool. Your eyesight and comprehesion must be
bad...




Your beef will increase cardio vascular disease,
osteoperosis,
cancer
of the colon, lacks any fiber, is pumped full of
hormones,many
with
antibitotics,
and wasting much energy and especially water. Growing
and
rendering a
cow
uses enough water to float a battleship.
===============================
Actually, NO to all your claims above fool.

Tell us about all the wasted water especially. I'm anxious
to
hear that particular ly from you...

Sir, perhaps you might start to do the arithmetic.
================
Idiot, you might first learn a thing or two...


First you have
all the water requirements to grow for 12 times as much
produce
as if people simply ate the produce.
=============================
"produce?" Fed to cattle? What a hoot!!! Show me any
requirement to feed "produce" to beef cattle...

Most of the corn grown in America is feed to cattle. Cattle is
a
produce.
======================
Again, killer, show me any requirement to feed produce to
cattle...



Then, again, give me the numbers for this extrme amount of
'wasted' water. Why can't you do that?



Then you have to supply the
water to the cattle. Not a huge amount. The a huge amount
of water is required to render the animal.
=======================
ROTFLMAO

If you'd like the data from a non biased source, simply go to
http://wrrc.p2pays.org/p2rx/subsecti...TOKEN=71483890
========================
Which still does not represnet what yopu tried to impaly. That
most water used is used t=o produce meats. You can't fool...
BTW, your pair of jeans takes a 1000 gallons...




This is from professional documentation on the Waste Reduction
Resource
Center.

"Meat Processing Water Consumption: Like many other food
processing
activities, the necessity for hygiene and quality control in
meat
processing results in high water usage and consequently high
wastewater
generation. Volumes of wastewater from meat processing are
generally
80-95 percent of the total freshwater consumption (MRC, 1995).
The
United Nations Environmental Program, Cleaner Production
Assessment in
Meat Processing (2000), estimates a range of 1,100 to 4,400
gallons of
water are used per live weight ton of slaughtered animal in the
United
States. Between 44-60 percent of water is consumed in the
slaughter,
evisceration and boning areas (MRC, 1995). The following table
illustrates the breakdown of water consumption in beef and pork
processing based on a study of Australian abattoirs."



There are many places on the network this can be easily
verified.
Here's one of many URLs.
http://www.cnr.berkeley.edu/classes/...es/hunger1.htm
====================
Hype and propaganda, fool....
Wanna know how I know? This little ly that keeps getting
passed
on and on by AR/vegan loons without any cite.
"...50% of the water withdrawn every year in the US to
irrigate
crops fed to livestock and to wash away manure..."
Here's a site that will expalin water withdrawals in the US
to
you. It's written for school children, but you should be able
to
follow along...
http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/totpie95.html

Total irragation, livestock, and aquaculture withdrawals are
only
about 36%.
==============================
I see you couldn't bring yourself to read the facts, huh fool?










Your knowledge of osteoporsis is clearly nil. You might
choose
to read
the "Bone Density Diet" by Dr. George Kesller, foremost
expert
on
Osteoporosis.
Meat leaches calcium from the cells, and should be eaten
sparingly if
at all. There is no reason at all the eat meat.

And of course, you made the claim that beef is somehow good
for osteoporosis. I suggest you might want to read
the Bone Density Diet, by Dr. George Kessler, the foremost
expert on Osteoporosis. He provides all the equations.



This ignored that suffering of factory manufactured
cattle.
===================
Why do you ignore the far more brutal, inhumane deaths that
aniomals suffer in the factory-farming of your veggies,
hypocrite?


That's a silly argument. Of course there are collateral
damages.
But you only need to eat a fraction of the produce
necessary.
In any
case, mechanized production of harvesting is not the same as
taking
animals and using them as products.
============================
Really? Why not fool? Aren't they just as dead? Why does
the
method of their death matter so much to you? Why does the
disposition of the bodies mean so much to you? Why is it that
the far more brutal, inhumane deaths that animals experience
in
factory-farmed veggies mean nothing to you?

First, the degree is far less. Secondly, all that collateral
damage
would
occur with production for cattle, only far more. And then there
of
course
is intention.
============================
No fool, all that does not occur for all beef cattle. Too bad
for you that your blinders are on too tight, eh hypocrite? They
ALL do occur for the veggies your hop down to the supermarket for
though...
So now a 'degree' of death matters to you, huh? What degree is
less in your CDs? The brutality? The inhumane deaths? The
numbers? You're wrong on all counts killer. Again, why is it ok
to kill more animals and leave them to rot than to kill fewer and
eat them? Hypocrisy? Willful ignorance? Plain stupidity?





Once again, you have failed to address the original error
you
posted,
that somehow eating beef avoids osteoporosis. Beef does not
contain anything but trace amounts of
calcium, but large amounts of calcium are required to break
it
down.
==========================
http://www.mercola.com/2002/feb/16/v...m_myths_05.htm

Oh your kidding. Mercola? That quack? Next you'll quote Dr.
Atkinson.
Of course, you stuck Osteoporosis and Beef into google and you
came up
with Mercola. Big freaking deal.

Do you know anything about how calcium is used in in the body?
The
effect of phosphoric acid and why it effects calcium levels?
Just be
honest.
Do you understand the relationship of calcium to protein?
========================
Again, you have failed to prove that the elimination of meat does
any good. Too bad you can't read your own spew, fool...







A quick google search will show some sites which support
eating beef. It's pretty funny to see who supports it.
=======================
A quick search also does not say to avoid meat altogether...

Who cares if people avoid meat altogether. That's not what I
responded
to. I responded to your statement that eating meat will avoid
osteoporosis.
=========================
I don't think I made such a claim fool... care to post it?
You're the only one that was talking about it, killer...






Frankly, anyone that can't understand that eating food that
requires
10 to 12 times more produce, drinks water it's entire life,
and
is
ignorant
and about the use of water in rendering, (which uses more
water
than
the rest put together) lacks the basic understanding to
engage
in
anything but emotional diatribes.
============================
LOL The ignorance is all yours, fool. I've provided data,
now

What data? You provided a pointer to a quack.
========================
many many times fool. Just right here in this thread I provided
data that disproves your ignorant contentions. Learn to use your
computer, since you have already proven that you don't care how
mnay animals you kill. The fact remains, you know NOTHING about
water useages in the US. Apparently you can't read at a
grade-school level yet. Maybe it's your diet, eh killer?



it's YOUR turn to back up some of your ignorant spews and lys.
I'll wait... The only one here with nothing but emotional
spew
is you fool. You've yet to back up your lys and delusions.

amazing....
=========================
Yes, it is amazing that you have yet to prove any of the ignorant
claims you've made and that you are still here spewing your
nonsense...




If you can offer some science, let me know. Till them,
remain
ignorant.
Enjoy your heart disease. You might want to get a dexa scan
and
see where you really are. Frankly, meat isn't the main cause
of
the
huge explosion of osteoporosis, it's drinking soda. But,
I'm
sure
you didn't know that.

Oh yes genius, enjoy eating your "aniomals"
=============================
LOL I rest my case, you have nothing, killer. Should I now
submit all posts to you for spell-checking? At least maybe
you'll be useful at something.

The original discussion was on osteoporosis. The tremendous
consumption of water. The third is your inability to discuss
something without emotional displays.
===============================
The first you have failed to prove your claims, and which I care
nothing about... The water claims you make have been disproven
and yet you still insist on making a fool of yourself. Again, it
must be your diet...








Have Run
Bob