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Old 17-06-2006, 09:21 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen

usual suspect posing as chico chupacabra wrote:
Derek wrote:

...
That being so, according to Dutch's view, Nazis had
the moral right to experiment on Jews long before
their alleged legal right was put in place.


Non sequitur


The conclusion follows from the premises and is
therefore not a non sequitur.

restore
Dutch is of the opinion that;

"Every legal right is preceded by a moral right."
Dutch Jun 26 2005 http://tinyurl.com/faeju

and

"Where legal rights exist moral rights always
precede them."
Dutch Mar 21 2006 http://tinyurl.com/gn8lx

So far so good, arguably, but he's also of the
opinion that;

"They (Nazis) had the legal right to abuse the Jews
because they rewrote the laws"
Dutch Mar 21 2006 http://tinyurl.com/gn8lx

That being so, according to Dutch's view, Nazis had
the moral right to experiment on Jews long before
their alleged legal right was put in place.
end restore

How many different news servers and agents are you
trying to use to conceal your identity this time, usual
suspect.'? You're so stupid that you forgot to change
your email address when first arriving here as 'chico
chupacabra', and you've even managed to get Jon to
lie on your behalf to Pearl to protect you in other
threads to this. Here's the evidence (below).

From: chico chupacabra
Newsgroups: alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
Subject: I'm considering being a vegetarian...
Message-Id:
References: .com




. net

t







X-Newsreader: Sylpheed version 0.9.3 (GTK+ 1.2.10; i686-pc-linux-gnu)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Lines: 13
Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 13:36:36 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 70.113.18.80
X-Complaints-To:
X-Trace: tornado.texas.rr.com 1150032996 70.113.18.80 (Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:36:36 CDT)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2006 08:36:36 CDT
Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online
http://www.rr.com

and

From: usual suspect
User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.6 (Windows/20050716)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ASCII-7-bit
Newsgroups: alt.food.vegan
Subject: An Ahimsa ThanXgiving - Fast 2005
References: .com

In-Reply-To:
Lines: 20
Message-ID:
Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 23:57:37 GMT
NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.28.78.81
X-Complaints-To:
X-Trace: tornado.texas.rr.com 1132531057 24.28.78.81 (Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:57:37 CST)
NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2005 17:57:37 CST
Organization: Road Runner High Speed Online
http://www.rr.com

Type both NNTP-Posting-Hosts into a reverse IP engine
at http://www.ip2location.com/free.asp and we get;

24.28.78.81 US UNITED STATES TEXAS AUSTIN ROAD RUNNER HOLDCO LLC
and
70.113.18.80 US UNITED STATES TEXAS AUSTIN ROAD RUNNER HOLDCO LLC

Why are you trying to conceal your identity and getting others
such as Jonathan to lie on your behalf? Could it be because
I saw to it that your older identity as 'usual suspect' had no
argument against the vegan here? Yep, I reckon so.

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Old 17-06-2006, 09:40 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen


"Derek" wrote
usual suspect posing as chico chupacabra wrote:
Derek wrote:

...
That being so, according to Dutch's view, Nazis had
the moral right to experiment on Jews long before
their alleged legal right was put in place.


Non sequitur


The conclusion follows from the premises and is
therefore not a non sequitur.


No it doesn't follow, for the reasons I elucidated. The Nazi regime was not
part of the legitimate evolution of human rights, it was a era spawned by
insane murderers. You need some new material Derek, this old Godwin crap was
tired the first time around, it's really lame now.

[..]

Why are you trying to conceal your identity and getting others
such as Jonathan to lie on your behalf? Could it be because
I saw to it that your older identity as 'usual suspect' had no
argument against the vegan here? Yep, I reckon so.


He freely admitted he was aka usual suspect several times in the past couple
of days. You are out of touch, and making the mistake of thinking that
everyone is as much a weasel and a sneak as you are, "Seb".



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Old 17-06-2006, 09:51 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen

daft-as-ever Dreck whined:

usual suspect posing as chico chupacabra wrote:


I'm not posing, arsehole. I stated to someone else to find pics of real farm
conditions in one of my old posts. Yes, AS USUAL SUSPECT.

the cuckold of Eastbourne wrote:

...
That being so, according to Dutch's view, Nazis had
the moral right to experiment on Jews long before
their alleged legal right was put in place.


Non sequitur


The conclusion


is a non sequitur, and you're stirring shit as usual.

...
How many different news servers


One. I've never used a news server other than my ISP's. That puts me about
12 behind your count, but I'll let you win the nymshift game, fatso.

and agents


I've used four since posting to these groups: Mozilla (Thunderbird, the
e-mail/news client in Mozilla Suite, and Netscape), KNode, Pan, and
Sylpheed. The latter three have only been since I switched to Linux on my
home computers.

are you trying to use to conceal your identity


No, and I never have. Again, I'll let you the nymshifting game: Derek,
firstoftwins, Immortalist, ipse dixit, et al.

You forgot to change your email address


If you had half a brain-cell left over following your abuse of painkillers,
X at raves, and pot, Dreck, you might've figured out that I manually
entered that specific e-mail address when I configured Sylpheed last week
(or the week before) for newsgroups as well as e-mail. But you don't, so
you haven't. No surprise there.

Unlike you, I wasn't trying to hide my identity, pretending to lend/borrow
news accounts (e.g., when you offered to loan yourself your own account
when you pretended to be "ipse dixit"), or any of the other games you play
to conceal your identity -- especially following your broken promises to
quit usenet. My desire to NOT conceal my identity is further borne out by
my reposting Lesley's list EARLY and OFTEN.

you've even managed to get Jon to
lie on your behalf to Pearl


Nobody's lied on my behalf. If Mr Erikson wishes to have fun and try his
hand at confusing gullible people like you and ****wit and Lesley (like
shooting fish is barrels), that's his business. Ironically, what he did was
similar to what YOU've done with all your sock puppets over the years, you
loathsome fat ****, when you've suggested others cannot prove it's really
you hiding behind your latest nymshift.

to protect you


I don't need protection, and POT-KETTLE-BLACK. You're the one who's shifted
nyms, news servers, etc. All I did was make one name change. Two if you
count Fu-Ming Wang. And fwiw, I also set up properties for "usual suspect"
in Sylpheed on my other computer.

Why are you trying to conceal your identity


I'm not concealing my identity, ipsedixitfirstoftwinsimmortalistetal.
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Old 17-06-2006, 10:03 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen

Derek ****ing LIED as usual:

usual suspect posing as chico chupacabra wrote:


Over the last few years, I've linked to photographs of hog and poultry
farms which represent the norm in modern agriculture. Most, if not all, of
the ARAs in these two groups lacked the courage to look at them because it
would upset their worldview which was formed on the propaganda of AR
extremist groups. You can look for the pics yourself. My nym is "usual
suspect."
chico chupacabra, AKA usual suspect, 10 June 2006
http://tinyurl.com/jvnbd

Try again with another of your ****ing lies, you ****ing lying liar.
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Old 17-06-2006, 10:12 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 01:40:17 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:
"Derek" wrote
usual suspect posing as chico chupacabra wrote:
Derek wrote:

...
That being so, according to Dutch's view, Nazis had
the moral right to experiment on Jews long before
their alleged legal right was put in place.

Non sequitur


The conclusion follows from the premises and is
therefore not a non sequitur.


No it doesn't follow


It does follow, and snipping the evidence supporting my
claim away every time only shows that you know it.

re-restore
Dutch is of the opinion that;

"Every legal right is preceded by a moral right."
Dutch Jun 26 2005 http://tinyurl.com/faeju

and

"Where legal rights exist moral rights always
precede them."
Dutch Mar 21 2006 http://tinyurl.com/gn8lx

So far so good, arguably, but he's also of the
opinion that;

"They (Nazis) had the legal right to abuse the Jews
because they rewrote the laws"
Dutch Mar 21 2006 http://tinyurl.com/gn8lx

That being so, according to Dutch's view, Nazis had
the moral right to experiment on Jews long before
their alleged legal right was put in place.
end re-restore

Why are you trying to conceal your identity and getting others
such as Jonathan to lie on your behalf? Could it be because
I saw to it that your older identity as 'usual suspect' had no
argument against the vegan here? Yep, I reckon so.


He freely admitted he was aka usual suspect several times in the past couple
of days.


Then why didn't he correct Jon in this exchange (below)
between him and Pearl, before Jon made a fool of himself?

[start -Jon]
Mr Chupacabra and his associate Mr Suspect have
documented them all.

False. 'chupacabra' is 'suspect', liar ball/leif/rudy/wilson/...


Prove it, bitch


You really are in an


Thought so - no proof.
[end]

I knew who he was, and so did everyone else who knows
his pathetic style of attack and meat-pushing onto the vegans
he tried but failed to aspire to, but he left Jon to defend his
bogus identity and work himself up into a right little lather.
Nice one, 'usual suspect': you gave Pearl a right good laugh
at Jon's expense.


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Old 17-06-2006, 10:17 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen

Derekimmortalistipsedixitfirstoftwistandeveryother nymthefat****haseverused
wrote:

...
Jon in this exchange (below)
between him and the whore Lesley

[start -Jon]
Mr Chupacabra and his associate Mr Suspect have
documented them all.

False. 'chupacabra' is 'suspect', liar ball/leif/rudy/wilson/...

Prove it, bitch


Mr Erikson did the very thing you've repeatedly done when you've changed
nyms (and servers), when you've carried on with your sock puppets, etc.,
when you demanded proof that you were Derek Nash and not ipse dixit,
immortalist, and so on and on and on and on, first of twits.
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Old 17-06-2006, 10:26 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 08:51:29 GMT, chico chupacabra wrote:
Derek wrote:
usual suspect posing as chico chupacabra wrote:


I'm not posing, arsehole. I stated to someone else to find pics of real farm
conditions in one of my old posts. Yes, AS USUAL SUSPECT.


So, you slipped up there as well, did you? If you weren't
trying to hide your identity, why have you been using up
to three different news agents and different servers, and
why didn't you correct Jon during his exchange with Pearl
about you before Pearl got to get the last laugh on him?

[start -Jon]
Mr Chupacabra and his associate Mr Suspect have
documented them all.

False. 'chupacabra' is 'suspect', liar ball/leif/rudy/wilson/...


Prove it, bitch


You really are in an


Thought so - no proof.
[end]

...
That being so, according to Dutch's view, Nazis had
the moral right to experiment on Jews long before
their alleged legal right was put in place.

Non sequitur


The conclusion


is a non sequitur,


So says you after removing the evidence supporting my
claim, yet again, and without giving any explanation for
why you claim that my argument is a non sequitur. That's
just not good enough; you'll have to do better than that.

you've even managed to get Jon to
lie on your behalf to Pearl


Nobody's lied on my behalf. If Mr Erikson wishes to have fun


Pearl obviously got the last laugh in this exchange.

[start -Jon]
Mr Chupacabra and his associate Mr Suspect have
documented them all.

False. 'chupacabra' is 'suspect', liar ball/leif/rudy/wilson/...


Prove it, bitch


You really are in an


Thought so - no proof.
[end]

Pearl was the one having all the fun there, thanks to you. Well done.
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Old 17-06-2006, 11:05 AM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen

Derekfirstoftwitsimmortalistipsedixitandallkindsof othernyms wrote:

So, you slipped up


No, I wasn't even hiding. Shit-stirring dummy.

Why have you been using up
to three different news agents


Just trying to find one I like.

and different servers


I haven't changed servers. I use my ISP's main news server, and always have.

why didn't you correct Mr Erikson during his exchange with the whore
Lesley


Why would he need correction? He only asked her to prove her claim --
something she's not very adept at, but it can be fun to watch her wriggle
through her incompetent posts, corrections, clarifications, and so on
(e.g., like when she tried her hand at computing feed:weight in beef
cattle).
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Old 17-06-2006, 12:21 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen

Derek can't stop stirring shit:

So, you slipped up


No, I wasn't even hiding. Shit-stirring dummy.


You were using at least three different news agents,


How many have I used as chico chupacabra, a nym I've used only the last
couple weeks or so? Two: K-node (on this computer) and Sylpheed (on another
computer I've used for usenet). I don't have *any* K installed on the other
computer I've used for usenet; I don't have Sylpheed installed on this one.
I'm running different distributions on three different computers; not every
distro comes with every bloody ****ing program already on it, and I just
installed Linux on *this* computer Friday afternoon so it only has the
programs from that distro on it (well, except for a couple games I
installed earlier this morning).

three different email accounts,


So? I've changed those frequently even when posting as usual suspect:
, ps, etc. BFD.

two news servers with different NNTP's


No apostrophe needed (NNTPs). I'm connecting to the same main news server I
always have. How my ISP routes me through their servers is their doing, not
mine. If I were inclined to conceal my identity, don't you think I'd go
through some other server like YOU do, fat ****?

, both of which still revealed who you were


*I* revealed who I am, you bone-idle ****. I did it intentionally with
" and again when posting to some nitwit who thinks every
****ing animal in the world is horribly abused when I told him specifically
to look for MY posts under "usual suspect."

Your NNTP number has changed


So has my IP, probably 100 times in the last couple weeks, without any
action on my part. That's business.
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Old 17-06-2006, 02:28 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen

"Derek" wrote in message ...
..

I knew who he was, and so did everyone else who knows
his pathetic style of attack and meat-pushing onto the vegans
he tried but failed to aspire to, but he left Jon to defend his
bogus identity and work himself up into a right little lather.
Nice one, 'usual suspect': you gave Pearl a right good laugh
at Jon's expense.


Sure did. They're both excellent representatives for the
anti faction. Add rick and ditch into the mix... wicked!








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Old 17-06-2006, 06:16 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen

On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 14:28:11 +0100, "pearl" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message ...
..

I knew who he was, and so did everyone else who knows
his pathetic style of attack and meat-pushing onto the vegans
he tried but failed to aspire to, but he left Jon to defend his
bogus identity and work himself up into a right little lather.
Nice one, 'usual suspect': you gave Pearl a right good laugh
at Jon's expense.


Sure did. They're both excellent representatives for the
anti faction. Add rick and ditch into the mix... wicked!


Good entertainment, too. You can't say they aren't. ;-)
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Old 17-06-2006, 07:31 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen


Dutch wrote:
"Derek" wrote
usual suspect posing as chico chupacabra wrote:
Derek wrote:

...
That being so, according to Dutch's view, Nazis had
the moral right to experiment on Jews long before
their alleged legal right was put in place.

Non sequitur


The conclusion follows from the premises and is
therefore not a non sequitur.


No it doesn't follow, for the reasons I elucidated. The Nazi regime was not
part of the legitimate evolution of human rights, it was a era spawned by
insane murderers. You need some new material Derek, this old Godwin crap was
tired the first time around, it's really lame now.


AFAICS that does nothing to refute the following logic:

[A] "Where legal rights exist moral rights ALWAYS
precede them."

[b] "The Nazis had the legal right to abuse the Jews
because they rewrote the laws"

[A+B] "That being so, Nazis had a moral right to experiment
on Jews, which proceded their legal right to do so."

If premises [A] and [b] are both true then premise [A+B]
must also be true. If premise [A+B] is false then premise
[A] and/or premise [b] must also be false.

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Old 17-06-2006, 07:58 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen


"Dave" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dutch wrote:
"Derek" wrote
usual suspect posing as chico chupacabra wrote:
Derek wrote:

...
That being so, according to Dutch's view, Nazis had
the moral right to experiment on Jews long before
their alleged legal right was put in place.

Non sequitur

The conclusion follows from the premises and is
therefore not a non sequitur.


No it doesn't follow, for the reasons I elucidated. The Nazi regime was
not
part of the legitimate evolution of human rights, it was a era spawned by
insane murderers. You need some new material Derek, this old Godwin crap
was
tired the first time around, it's really lame now.


AFAICS that does nothing to refute the following logic:

[A] "Where legal rights exist moral rights ALWAYS
precede them."

[b] "The Nazis had the legal right to abuse the Jews
because they rewrote the laws"

[A+B] "That being so, Nazis had a moral right to experiment
on Jews, which proceded their legal right to do so."

If premises [A] and [b] are both true then premise [A+B]
must also be true. If premise [A+B] is false then premise
[A] and/or premise [b] must also be false.


Dave, strictly speaking, you are correct, but as I have said previously,
when I made the statement "Where legal rights exist moral rights always
precede them." I was thinking about the normal process of evolution and
development of legal rights, not about something like the criminal Nazi
Regime [Godwin]. Think about it in those terms and you'll see what I mean. I
used the absolute term "always" and I probably should not have, because it
gave the sophists like Derek something to latch onto. On the other hand it's
funny to watch him freak out about it. You can choose to refuse to accept my
explanation and conclude that I believe that the Nazis had a legitimate
moral right to do what they did if you like, but I find that a little silly.


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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen


"Derek" wrote
Good entertainment, too. You can't say they aren't. ;-)


Delusions will take you a long way.


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Old 17-06-2006, 08:48 PM posted to alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,talk.politics.animals,alt.food.vegan
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Default Nathan Nobis vs. Carl Cohen


"Derek" wrote
On Sat, 17 Jun 2006 01:40:17 -0700, "Dutch" wrote:
"Derek" wrote
usual suspect posing as chico chupacabra wrote:


He's not posing, "poseur", that's your specialty.

Derek wrote:

...
That being so, according to Dutch's view, Nazis had
the moral right to experiment on Jews long before
their alleged legal right was put in place.

Non sequitur

The conclusion follows from the premises and is
therefore not a non sequitur.


No it doesn't follow


It does follow,


No it doesn't, it's taking the comments out of context. I'll respond once
again since you seem to have Dave sucked in this time.

and snipping the evidence supporting my
claim away every time only shows that you know it.


Non-sequitur, snipping your crap shows my disdain for it.

re-restore
Dutch is of the opinion that;

"Every legal right is preceded by a moral right."
Dutch Jun 26 2005 http://tinyurl.com/faeju


Under normal circumstances, that does not apply to legal rights obtain
illegitmately, such as by gangs of thugs who take over a legislature by
force and intimidation.

and

"Where legal rights exist moral rights always
precede them."
Dutch Mar 21 2006 http://tinyurl.com/gn8lx


Same as above, I should have avoided the word "always" considering dishonest
sophists like you abound here.

So far so good, arguably,


Weasel word, it's either good or it's not.

but he's also of the
opinion that;

"They (Nazis) had the legal right to abuse the Jews
because they rewrote the laws"
Dutch Mar 21 2006 http://tinyurl.com/gn8lx


They did, but they obtained that legal right illegitimately by intimidation
and murder, not through the process of consensus and evolution.

That being so, according to Dutch's view, Nazis had
the moral right to experiment on Jews long before
their alleged legal right was put in place.


Non-sequitur, and absurd. I hope this has helped to clear up your confusion.
And you will understand when I don't humour you further by replying to this
same silly accusation.

end re-restore

Why are you trying to conceal your identity and getting others
such as Jonathan to lie on your behalf? Could it be because
I saw to it that your older identity as 'usual suspect' had no
argument against the vegan here? Yep, I reckon so.


He freely admitted he was aka usual suspect several times in the past
couple
of days.


Then why didn't he correct Jon in this exchange (below)
between him and Pearl, before Jon made a fool of himself?


Jon did no such thing, file that under another of your delusions.

[start -Jon]
Mr Chupacabra and his associate Mr Suspect have
documented them all.

False. 'chupacabra' is 'suspect', liar ball/leif/rudy/wilson/...

Prove it, bitch


You really are in an


Thought so - no proof.


The proof is all there, you're the quote-miner, just check.

[end]

I knew who he was,


He admitted who he was, moron, unlike your sock-puppets.

and so did everyone else who knows
his pathetic style of attack


I recognize yours too, that's why your *sleazy* attempts to pass off
sock-puppets always fail.

and meat-pushing onto the vegans
he tried but failed to aspire to, but he left Jon to defend his
bogus identity and work himself up into a right little lather.
Nice one, 'usual suspect': you gave Pearl a right good laugh
at Jon's expense.


Have you learned yet to stop trying to pass off sock-puppets?




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