I had to email away for it this morning, so I thought I would share the
results. The excerpt from their reply starts below the "====" line:


As of 2006 March 10th:
================================================== ===
In response to your question the Ingredients and nutritional
information for
the Gardenburger and VegiMax are as follows:

Gardenburger:

Mushrooms, brown rice, onions, rolled oats, part-skim mozzarella,
cottage
cheese curd, egg white, cheddar cheese, bulgar wheat, natural
seasonings and
spices, autolyzed yeast, sea salt, olive oil, tapioca starch, and
vegetable
gum.

Calories 390
Protein (g) 19
Carbohydrates (g) 66
Sugar 6
Fat (g) 7
Sat. Fat (g) 2.5
Cholesterol (mg) 5
Sodium (mg) 960
Dietary Fiber (g) 9

VegiMax is as follows:

The ingredients: Vegetables (mushroom, water chestnuts, onions,
carrots,
green and red bell peppers, black olives), textured vegetable protein
(soy
protein consentrate, wheat gluten), egg whites, cooked brown rice,
rolled
oats, corn oil, calcium caseinate, soy sauce (water, soybeans, saly=t,
wheat) Contains 2% or less of the following: onion powder, cornstarch,
salt,
hydrolyzed corn, soy and wheat protein, sucrose, soy protein isolate,
spices, garlic powder, dextrose, jalapeno pepper powder, celery
extract.

Calories 390
Protein (g) 24
Carbohydrates (g) 56
Sugar 7
Fat (g) 8
Sat. Fat (g) 1.5
Cholesterol (mg) 10
Sodium (mg) 1030
Dietary Fiber (g) 7

The above values include wheat or white bread, a 3.0 oz patty, and all
the
standard vegetables. Cheese or other condiments are not included.

The above information is for a 6 inch sub which is a local product.
However,
the nutrient value may vary depending on the store's manufacturer.
Further
nutritional information on our national products can be found on our
web
site at www.subway.com

So, definitely not vegan then? (alt.food.vegan)

In article .com>,
says...
> I had to email away for it this morning, so I thought I would share the
> results. The excerpt from their reply starts below the "====" line:
>
>
> As of 2006 March 10th:
> ================================================== ===
> In response to your question the Ingredients and nutritional
> information for
> the Gardenburger and VegiMax are as follows:
>
> Gardenburger:
>
> Mushrooms, brown rice, onions, rolled oats, part-skim mozzarella,
> cottage
> cheese curd, egg white, cheddar cheese, bulgar wheat, natural
> seasonings and
> spices, autolyzed yeast, sea salt, olive oil, tapioca starch, and
> vegetable
> gum.
>
> Calories 390
> Protein (g) 19
> Carbohydrates (g) 66
> Sugar 6
> Fat (g) 7
> Sat. Fat (g) 2.5
> Cholesterol (mg) 5
> Sodium (mg) 960
> Dietary Fiber (g) 9
>
> VegiMax is as follows:
>
> The ingredients: Vegetables (mushroom, water chestnuts, onions,
> carrots,
> green and red bell peppers, black olives), textured vegetable protein
> (soy
> protein consentrate, wheat gluten), egg whites, cooked brown rice,
> rolled
> oats, corn oil, calcium caseinate, soy sauce (water, soybeans, saly=t,
> wheat) Contains 2% or less of the following: onion powder, cornstarch,
> salt,
> hydrolyzed corn, soy and wheat protein, sucrose, soy protein isolate,
> spices, garlic powder, dextrose, jalapeno pepper powder, celery
> extract.
>
> Calories 390
> Protein (g) 24
> Carbohydrates (g) 56
> Sugar 7
> Fat (g) 8

"Steve" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>I had to email away for it this morning, so I thought I would
>share the
> results. The excerpt from their reply starts below the "===="
> line:
>
======================
ROTFLMAo Rice, corn oil and TVP. Yeah, sure, those are all
animal friendly and cruelty-free! What a hoot!



>
> As of 2006 March 10th:
> ================================================== ===
> In response to your question the Ingredients and nutritional
> information for
> the Gardenburger and VegiMax are as follows:
>
> Gardenburger:
>
> Mushrooms, brown rice, onions, rolled oats, part-skim
> mozzarella,
> cottage
> cheese curd, egg white, cheddar cheese, bulgar wheat, natural
> seasonings and
> spices, autolyzed yeast, sea salt, olive oil, tapioca starch,
> and
> vegetable
> gum.
>
> Calories 390
> Protein (g) 19
> Carbohydrates (g) 66
> Sugar 6
> Fat (g) 7
> Sat. Fat (g) 2.5
> Cholesterol (mg) 5
> Sodium (mg) 960
> Dietary Fiber (g) 9
>
> VegiMax is as follows:
>
> The ingredients: Vegetables (mushroom, water chestnuts, onions,
> carrots,
> green and red bell peppers, black olives), textured vegetable
> protein
> (soy
> protein consentrate, wheat gluten), egg whites, cooked brown
> rice,
> rolled
> oats, corn oil, calcium caseinate, soy sauce (water, soybeans,
> saly=t,
> wheat) Contains 2% or less of the following: onion powder,
> cornstarch,
> salt,
> hydrolyzed corn, soy and wheat protein, sucrose, soy protein
> isolate,
> spices, garlic powder, dextrose, jalapeno pepper powder, celery
> extract.
>
> Calories 390
> Protein (g) 24
> Carbohydrates (g) 56
> Sugar 7
> Fat (g) 8
> Sat. Fat (g) 1.5
> Cholesterol (mg) 10
> Sodium (mg) 1030
> Dietary Fiber (g) 7
>
> The above values include wheat or white bread, a 3.0 oz patty,
> and all
> the
> standard vegetables. Cheese or other condiments are not
> included.
>
> The above information is for a 6 inch sub which is a local
> product.
> However,
> the nutrient value may vary depending on the store's
> manufacturer.
> Further
> nutritional information on our national products can be found
> on our
> web
> site at www.subway.com
>

In article et>,
says...
> "Steve" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >I had to email away for it this morning, so I thought I would
> >share the
> > results. The excerpt from their reply starts below the "===="
> > line:
> >
> ======================
> ROTFLMAo Rice, corn oil and TVP. Yeah, sure, those are all
> animal friendly and cruelty-free! What a hoot!
>
Maybe not. But vegan? Yes.
Unlike the...
> part-skim
> mozzarella,
> cottage
> cheese curd, egg white, cheddar cheese

"Fred" > wrote in message
m...
> In article
> et>,
> says...
>> "Steve" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >I had to email away for it this morning, so I thought I would
>> >share the
>> > results. The excerpt from their reply starts below the
>> > "===="
>> > line:
>> >
>> ======================
>> ROTFLMAo Rice, corn oil and TVP. Yeah, sure, those are all
>> animal friendly and cruelty-free! What a hoot!
>>
> Maybe not. But vegan? Yes.
========================
Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to animals
is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
consequences..



> Unlike the...
>> part-skim
>> mozzarella,
>> cottage
>> cheese curd, egg white, cheddar cheese

Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan recipe
is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
How about some posts about vegan food!

In article t>,
says...

> Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to animals
> is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
> their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
> consequences..

"Fred" > wrote in message
m...
> Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan
> recipe
> is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
> How about some posts about vegan food!
=======================
That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but spew
their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good use?
And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
death and suffering of many more animals.


>
> In article
> t>,
> says...
>
>> Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
>> animals
>> is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
>> their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
>> consequences..

Fred wrote:
> Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan recipe
> is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
> How about some posts about vegan food!



You may have noticed that it's impossible to prove *anything* to ricky.




>
> In article t>,
> says...
>
> > Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to animals
> > is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
> > their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
> > consequences..

Fred wrote:
> Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan recipe
> is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
> How about some posts about vegan food!
>
>

Fred,
Maybe the original poster's intent was to inform Vegans that the Subway
Veggie Patties are not Vegan. I had the same question and was about to
email Subway myself. The OP saved me the trouble.

This is also being cross-posted to rec.food.veg

Fred wrote:
> Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan recipe
> is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
> How about some posts about vegan food!

rick wrote:
>
> "Fred" > wrote in message
> m...
> > Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan
> > recipe
> > is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
> > How about some posts about vegan food!
> =======================
> That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
> from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
> from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
> amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
> have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but spew
> their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good use?
> And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
> death and suffering of many more animals.
>
> >
> > In article
> > t>,
> > says...
> >
> >> Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
> >> animals
> >> is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
> >> their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
> >> consequences..

Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh well, your
luck is IN today!
I would be more concerned that the servers wear those dreadful gloves
and put their hands all over meat products then grab and shove the
vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a change of
gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated already.
Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves or no gloves.
X

"Lady Muck" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>>
>> "Fred" > wrote in message
>> m...
>> > Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a
>> > non-vegan
>> > recipe
>> > is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
>> > How about some posts about vegan food!
>> =======================
>> That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
>> from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
>> from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
>> amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
>> have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but
>> spew
>> their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good
>> use?
>> And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
>> death and suffering of many more animals.
>>
>> >
>> > In article
>> > t>,
>> > says...
>> >
>> >> Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
>> >> animals
>> >> is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule
>> >> for
>> >> their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
>> >> consequences..
>
> Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh
> well, your
> luck is IN today!
======================
The privilege is yours, baby...


> I would be more concerned that the servers wear those dreadful
> gloves
> and put their hands all over meat products then grab and shove
> the
> vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a
> change of
> gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated
> already.
> Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves or
> no gloves.
> X
============================
There you go, thanks for proving the point. You have a simple
rule, for a simple mind. look for any little tiny bits that may
be on your plate, but ignore the bloody footprints you spread all
around. You're too good to be true, baby...

Lady Muck wrote:
> rick wrote:
> >
> > "Fred" > wrote in message
> > m...
> > > Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan
> > > recipe
> > > is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
> > > How about some posts about vegan food!
> > =======================
> > That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
> > from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
> > from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
> > amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
> > have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but spew
> > their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good use?
> > And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
> > death and suffering of many more animals.
> >
> > >
> > > In article
> > > t>,
> > > says...
> > >
> > >> Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
> > >> animals
> > >> is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
> > >> their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
> > >> consequences..
>
> Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh well, your
> luck is IN today!
> I would be more concerned that the servers wear those dreadful gloves
> and put their hands all over meat products then grab and shove the
> vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a change of
> gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated already.

One thing I have never understood is why veggies make such a big deal
of things like this. The microscopic traces of meat that may
contaminate your
veggie food is not going to make the blindest bit of difference to your
health
and you are not condoning or financially supporting the meat industry
in any way by accepting the product. Apart from inconviniencing the
staff
and making vegetarians appear petty what do you hope to achieve by
objecting to it?

> Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves or no gloves.
> X

rick wrote:
>
> "Lady Muck" > wrote in message
> ...
> > rick wrote:
> >>
> >> "Fred" > wrote in message
> >> m...
> >> > Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a
> >> > non-vegan
> >> > recipe
> >> > is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
> >> > How about some posts about vegan food!
> >> =======================
> >> That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
> >> from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
> >> from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
> >> amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
> >> have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but
> >> spew
> >> their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good
> >> use?
> >> And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
> >> death and suffering of many more animals.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > In article
> >> > t>,
> >> > says...
> >> >
> >> >> Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
> >> >> animals
> >> >> is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule
> >> >> for
> >> >> their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
> >> >> consequences..
> >
> > Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh
> > well, your
> > luck is IN today!
> ======================
> The privilege is yours, baby...

YOU ANSWERED!!!!
<SWOON>
heaven, I'm in heaven...
sing along Rick sweetie

> > I would be more concerned that the servers wear those dreadful
> > gloves
> > and put their hands all over meat products then grab and shove
> > the
> > vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a
> > change of
> > gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated
> > already.
> > Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves or
> > no gloves.
> > X
> ============================
> There you go, thanks for proving the point. You have a simple
> rule, for a simple mind. look for any little tiny bits that may
> be on your plate, but ignore the bloody footprints you spread all
> around. You're too good to be true, baby...

can't take my eyes off of you. Andy Williams was it?
Start with a tiny bit Rick. End with a big one!

"Anon" > wrote in message
...
> Dave wrote:
>> Lady Muck wrote:
>>> rick wrote:
>>>> "Fred" > wrote in message
>>>> m...
>>>>> Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a
>>>>> non-vegan
>>>>> recipe
>>>>> is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
>>>>> How about some posts about vegan food!
>>>> =======================
>>>> That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they
>>>> come
>>>> from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are
>>>> imported
>>>> from all around the world. They are all tainted with
>>>> massive
>>>> amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that
>>>> vegans
>>>> have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but
>>>> spew
>>>> their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good
>>>> use?
>>>> And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to
>>>> the
>>>> death and suffering of many more animals.
>>>>
>>>>> In article
>>>>> t>,
>>>>> says...
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
>>>>>> animals
>>>>>> is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
>>>>>> consequences..
>>> Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh
>>> well, your
>>> luck is IN today!
>>> I would be more concerned that the servers wear those
>>> dreadful gloves
>>> and put their hands all over meat products then grab and
>>> shove the
>>> vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a
>>> change of
>>> gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated
>>> already.
>>
>> One thing I have never understood is why veggies make such a
>> big deal
>> of things like this. The microscopic traces of meat that may
>> contaminate your
>> veggie food is not going to make the blindest bit of
>> difference to your
>> health
>> and you are not condoning or financially supporting the meat
>> industry
>> in any way by accepting the product. Apart from
>> inconviniencing the
>> staff
>> and making vegetarians appear petty what do you hope to
>> achieve by
>> objecting to it?
>>
>>> Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves or
>>> no gloves.
>>> X
>>
>
> Dave,
>
> It's easier to understand once you go veggie. Your perception
> of meat begins to change and after a while, even the idea of
> eating meat is unappetizing. For me, the reasons go beyond
> that. I have spiritual reasons for not eating meat which I've
> elaborated on in the past. Basically animals, even the ones
> that we eat, are God's children. I offer all of my food to God
> before i eat it and I would not want to offer God anything that
> contained even the slightest trace of the body of his other
> children. it would be disrespectful. I will not even eat
> cheese made with animal rennet even though the rennet is a
> product only derived from animals.
>
> It may be hard to understand this if you could care less
> whether or not animal products or flesh were in your food, but
> to someone who on a daily basis must inconveience him or
> herself to live a life style that they feel is a moral or
> spiritual must, the idea of even a little bit of meat is
> disturbing. I, and many other veggies, don't even like to
> smell meat.
=============================
Yet, as i've shown in posts concurrent with this, you have no
qualms about killing even far greater numbers of animals for
nothing more than your entertainment. That's some religion
you've talked yourself into there, hypocrite.

And again, none of the food you eat now comes without the moral
'taint' of animal blood.

"Lady Muck" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>>
>> "Lady Muck" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > rick wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Fred" > wrote in message
>> >> m...
>> >> > Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a
>> >> > non-vegan
>> >> > recipe
>> >> > is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
>> >> > How about some posts about vegan food!
>> >> =======================
>> >> That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they
>> >> come
>> >> from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are
>> >> imported
>> >> from all around the world. They are all tainted with
>> >> massive
>> >> amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that
>> >> vegans
>> >> have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot,
>> >> but
>> >> spew
>> >> their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to
>> >> good
>> >> use?
>> >> And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to
>> >> the
>> >> death and suffering of many more animals.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > In article
>> >> > t>,
>> >> > says...
>> >> >
>> >> >> Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
>> >> >> animals
>> >> >> is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple
>> >> >> rule
>> >> >> for
>> >> >> their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
>> >> >> consequences..
>> >
>> > Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh
>> > well, your
>> > luck is IN today!
>> ======================
>> The privilege is yours, baby...
>
> YOU ANSWERED!!!!
> <SWOON>
> heaven, I'm in heaven...
> sing along Rick sweetie
>
>> > I would be more concerned that the servers wear those
>> > dreadful
>> > gloves
>> > and put their hands all over meat products then grab and
>> > shove
>> > the
>> > vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for
>> > a
>> > change of
>> > gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated
>> > already.
>> > Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves
>> > or
>> > no gloves.
>> > X
>> ============================
>> There you go, thanks for proving the point. You have a simple
>> rule, for a simple mind. look for any little tiny bits that
>> may
>> be on your plate, but ignore the bloody footprints you spread
>> all
>> around. You're too good to be true, baby...
>
> can't take my eyes off of you. Andy Williams was it?
> Start with a tiny bit Rick. End with a big one!
====================
Live by a simple rule, become a simpleton.
The essence of veg*ns...

Dave wrote:
> Lady Muck wrote:
>> rick wrote:
>>> "Fred" > wrote in message
>>> m...
>>>> Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan
>>>> recipe
>>>> is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
>>>> How about some posts about vegan food!
>>> =======================
>>> That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
>>> from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
>>> from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
>>> amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
>>> have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but spew
>>> their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good use?
>>> And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
>>> death and suffering of many more animals.
>>>
>>>> In article
>>>> t>,
>>>> says...
>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
>>>>> animals
>>>>> is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
>>>>> their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
>>>>> consequences..
>> Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh well, your
>> luck is IN today!
>> I would be more concerned that the servers wear those dreadful gloves
>> and put their hands all over meat products then grab and shove the
>> vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a change of
>> gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated already.
>
> One thing I have never understood is why veggies make such a big deal
> of things like this. The microscopic traces of meat that may
> contaminate your
> veggie food is not going to make the blindest bit of difference to your
> health
> and you are not condoning or financially supporting the meat industry
> in any way by accepting the product. Apart from inconviniencing the
> staff
> and making vegetarians appear petty what do you hope to achieve by
> objecting to it?
>
>> Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves or no gloves.
>> X
>

Dave,

It's easier to understand once you go veggie. Your perception of meat
begins to change and after a while, even the idea of eating meat is
unappetizing. For me, the reasons go beyond that. I have spiritual
reasons for not eating meat which I've elaborated on in the past.
Basically animals, even the ones that we eat, are God's children. I
offer all of my food to God before i eat it and I would not want to
offer God anything that contained even the slightest trace of the body
of his other children. it would be disrespectful. I will not even eat
cheese made with animal rennet even though the rennet is a product only
derived from animals.

It may be hard to understand this if you could care less whether or not
animal products or flesh were in your food, but to someone who on a
daily basis must inconveience him or herself to live a life style that
they feel is a moral or spiritual must, the idea of even a little bit of
meat is disturbing. I, and many other veggies, don't even like to smell
meat.

Anon wrote:
> Dave wrote:
> > Lady Muck wrote:
> >> rick wrote:
> >>> "Fred" > wrote in message
> >>> m...
> >>>> Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan
> >>>> recipe
> >>>> is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
> >>>> How about some posts about vegan food!
> >>> =======================
> >>> That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
> >>> from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
> >>> from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
> >>> amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
> >>> have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but spew
> >>> their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good use?
> >>> And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
> >>> death and suffering of many more animals.
> >>>
> >>>> In article
> >>>> t>,
> >>>> says...
> >>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
> >>>>> animals
> >>>>> is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
> >>>>> their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
> >>>>> consequences..
> >> Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh well, your
> >> luck is IN today!
> >> I would be more concerned that the servers wear those dreadful gloves
> >> and put their hands all over meat products then grab and shove the
> >> vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a change of
> >> gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated already.
> >
> > One thing I have never understood is why veggies make such a big deal
> > of things like this. The microscopic traces of meat that may
> > contaminate your
> > veggie food is not going to make the blindest bit of difference to your
> > health
> > and you are not condoning or financially supporting the meat industry
> > in any way by accepting the product. Apart from inconviniencing the
> > staff
> > and making vegetarians appear petty what do you hope to achieve by
> > objecting to it?
> >
> >> Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves or no gloves.
> >> X
> >
>
> Dave,
>
> It's easier to understand once you go veggie. Your perception of meat
> begins to change and after a while, even the idea of eating meat is
> unappetizing. For me, the reasons go beyond that. I have spiritual
> reasons for not eating meat which I've elaborated on in the past.
> Basically animals, even the ones that we eat, are God's children. I
> offer all of my food to God before i eat it and I would not want to
> offer God anything that contained even the slightest trace of the body
> of his other children. it would be disrespectful. I will not even eat
> cheese made with animal rennet even though the rennet is a product only
> derived from animals.
>
> It may be hard to understand this if you could care less whether or not
> animal products or flesh were in your food, but to someone who on a
> daily basis must inconveience him or herself to live a life style that
> they feel is a moral or spiritual must, the idea of even a little bit of
> meat is disturbing. I, and many other veggies, don't even like to smell
> meat.

Although not strict veggie as such I'd hardly describe myself as
someone
who couldn't care less what is in my food. I abhor modern methods of
factory farming and try to avoid any products that offer financial
support
to such methods. I willingly endure the inconvinience of having to
avoid
certain products but I have never seen the point of inconviniencing
myself
further by refusing to eat salad sandwiches from Subway just because
the
people serving them have recently handled meat. I might feel
differently
if I had spritual motivations but I don't think most veggies do.

Lady Muck wrote:
> Dave wrote:
> >
> > Lady Muck wrote:
> > > rick wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Fred" > wrote in message
> > > > m...
> > > > > Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan
> > > > > recipe
> > > > > is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
> > > > > How about some posts about vegan food!
> > > > =======================
> > > > That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
> > > > from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
> > > > from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
> > > > amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
> > > > have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but spew
> > > > their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good use?
> > > > And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
> > > > death and suffering of many more animals.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In article
> > > > > t>,
> > > > > says...
> > > > >
> > > > >> Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
> > > > >> animals
> > > > >> is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
> > > > >> their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
> > > > >> consequences..
> > >
> > > Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh well, your
> > > luck is IN today!
> > > I would be more concerned that the servers wear those dreadful gloves
> > > and put their hands all over meat products then grab and shove the
> > > vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a change of
> > > gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated already.
> >
> > One thing I have never understood is why veggies make such a big deal
> > of things like this. The microscopic traces of meat that may
> > contaminate your
> > veggie food is not going to make the blindest bit of difference to your
> > health
> > and you are not condoning or financially supporting the meat industry
> > in any way by accepting the product. Apart from inconviniencing the
> > staff
> > and making vegetarians appear petty what do you hope to achieve by
> > objecting to it?
>
> I am not in the categories above. Meat, dead flesh make me retch, the
> thought of eating it, the thought of it being on my plate - yuk.
> Possibly akin to a lump of shit - it would make me vomit to know I had
> ate it however small a piece. Now if someone was handling a lump of
> festering poo would you want it on YOUR food? Any traces of it on YOUR
> plate? Maybe you would, how can I say.

Do I have a choice in the matter. A fly who eats on shit and then an
apples
regurgitates some of the shit over the apple. Many vegetables are grown
in
animal manure. even those that don't may contain traces of shit from
animals
that happen to have taken a dump in the vicinity. You probably eat shit
on a
regular basis.

> I have never ate meat and never
> want to eat it nor take it in knowingly or unknowingly. No fuss. Just
> don't eat in those sort of places.

Dave wrote:
> Anon wrote:
>
>>Dave wrote:
>>
>>>Lady Muck wrote:
>>>
>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Fred" > wrote in message
et.com...
>>>>>
>>>>>>Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan
>>>>>>recipe
>>>>>>is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
>>>>>>How about some posts about vegan food!
>>>>>
>>>>>=======================
>>>>>That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
>>>>>from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
>>>>>from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
>>>>>amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
>>>>>have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but spew
>>>>>their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good use?
>>>>>And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
>>>>>death and suffering of many more animals.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In article
ink.net>,
says...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
>>>>>>>animals
>>>>>>>is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
>>>>>>>their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
>>>>>>>consequences..
>>>>
>>>>Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh well, your
>>>>luck is IN today!
>>>>I would be more concerned that the servers wear those dreadful gloves
>>>>and put their hands all over meat products then grab and shove the
>>>>vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a change of
>>>>gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated already.
>>>
>>>One thing I have never understood is why veggies make such a big deal
>>>of things like this. The microscopic traces of meat that may
>>>contaminate your
>>>veggie food is not going to make the blindest bit of difference to your
>>>health
>>>and you are not condoning or financially supporting the meat industry
>>>in any way by accepting the product. Apart from inconviniencing the
>>>staff
>>>and making vegetarians appear petty what do you hope to achieve by
>>>objecting to it?
>>>
>>>
>>>>Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves or no gloves.
>>>> X
>>>
>>Dave,
>>
>>It's easier to understand once you go veggie. Your perception of meat
>>begins to change and after a while, even the idea of eating meat is
>>unappetizing. For me, the reasons go beyond that. I have spiritual
>>reasons for not eating meat which I've elaborated on in the past.
>>Basically animals, even the ones that we eat, are God's children. I
>>offer all of my food to God before i eat it and I would not want to
>>offer God anything that contained even the slightest trace of the body
>>of his other children. it would be disrespectful. I will not even eat
>>cheese made with animal rennet even though the rennet is a product only
>>derived from animals.
>>
>>It may be hard to understand this if you could care less whether or not
>>animal products or flesh were in your food, but to someone who on a
>>daily basis must inconveience him or herself to live a life style that
>>they feel is a moral or spiritual must, the idea of even a little bit of
>>meat is disturbing. I, and many other veggies, don't even like to smell
>>meat.
>
>
> Although not strict veggie as such I'd hardly describe myself as
> someone
> who couldn't care less what is in my food. I abhor modern methods of
> factory farming and try to avoid any products that offer financial
> support
> to such methods.

Do you apply the same standards to other industries, or even other forms
of agriculture? For instance, do you refuse to drive vehicles that were
built on assembly lines? Do you refuse clothing made with materials
derived from industrial processing -- whether synthetics refined from
petroleum or natural fibers grown and woven "industrially"?

What is it about modern methods of farming that makes it different from
any other economic activity? Humans have always sought to maximize
yields from the least amount of inputs -- and farming is one of the
industries which was first to do it (farming reduced nomadicism and
hunting/gathering).

> I willingly endure the inconvinience of having to
> avoid
> certain products but I have never seen the point of inconviniencing
> myself
> further by refusing to eat salad sandwiches from Subway just because
> the
> people serving them have recently handled meat. I might feel
> differently
> if I had spritual motivations but I don't think most veggies do.

So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in their
motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.

"Anon" > wrote in message
...
>
>>
>> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in
>> their motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
>
> You do not know me and you do not know what I practice. If you
> did know me, then you would know why I don't eat meat. Living
> a spiritual life includes developing compassion towards not
> only other human beings, but to souls in animal bodies as well.
===================================
Then why do you continue to kill them for your entertainment,
hypocrite?
Following a simple rule for your simple mind does not
spirituality make, killer.



You are so confident in your
> assumptions. Tell me, what is your definition of spiritual?
> And please tell me how not eating animals products=
> misanthropy.

>
> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in their
> motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.

You do not know me and you do not know what I practice. If you did know
me, then you would know why I don't eat meat. Living a spiritual life
includes developing compassion towards not only other human beings, but
to souls in animal bodies as well. You are so confident in your
assumptions. Tell me, what is your definition of spiritual? And please
tell me how not eating animals products= misanthropy.

usual suspect wrote:
> Dave wrote:
> > Anon wrote:
> >
> >>Dave wrote:
> >>
> >>>Lady Muck wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>rick wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>"Fred" > wrote in message
> et.com...
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan
> >>>>>>recipe
> >>>>>>is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
> >>>>>>How about some posts about vegan food!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>=======================
> >>>>>That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
> >>>>>from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
> >>>>>from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
> >>>>>amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
> >>>>>have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but spew
> >>>>>their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good use?
> >>>>>And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
> >>>>>death and suffering of many more animals.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>In article
> ink.net>,
> says...
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
> >>>>>>>animals
> >>>>>>>is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
> >>>>>>>their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
> >>>>>>>consequences..
> >>>>
> >>>>Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh well, your
> >>>>luck is IN today!
> >>>>I would be more concerned that the servers wear those dreadful gloves
> >>>>and put their hands all over meat products then grab and shove the
> >>>>vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a change of
> >>>>gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated already.
> >>>
> >>>One thing I have never understood is why veggies make such a big deal
> >>>of things like this. The microscopic traces of meat that may
> >>>contaminate your
> >>>veggie food is not going to make the blindest bit of difference to your
> >>>health
> >>>and you are not condoning or financially supporting the meat industry
> >>>in any way by accepting the product. Apart from inconviniencing the
> >>>staff
> >>>and making vegetarians appear petty what do you hope to achieve by
> >>>objecting to it?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves or no gloves.
> >>>> X
> >>>
> >>Dave,
> >>
> >>It's easier to understand once you go veggie. Your perception of meat
> >>begins to change and after a while, even the idea of eating meat is
> >>unappetizing. For me, the reasons go beyond that. I have spiritual
> >>reasons for not eating meat which I've elaborated on in the past.
> >>Basically animals, even the ones that we eat, are God's children. I
> >>offer all of my food to God before i eat it and I would not want to
> >>offer God anything that contained even the slightest trace of the body
> >>of his other children. it would be disrespectful. I will not even eat
> >>cheese made with animal rennet even though the rennet is a product only
> >>derived from animals.
> >>
> >>It may be hard to understand this if you could care less whether or not
> >>animal products or flesh were in your food, but to someone who on a
> >>daily basis must inconveience him or herself to live a life style that
> >>they feel is a moral or spiritual must, the idea of even a little bit of
> >>meat is disturbing. I, and many other veggies, don't even like to smell
> >>meat.
> >
> >
> > Although not strict veggie as such I'd hardly describe myself as
> > someone
> > who couldn't care less what is in my food. I abhor modern methods of
> > factory farming and try to avoid any products that offer financial
> > support
> > to such methods.
>
> Do you apply the same standards to other industries, or even other forms
> of agriculture? For instance, do you refuse to drive vehicles that were
> built on assembly lines? Do you refuse clothing made with materials
> derived from industrial processing -- whether synthetics refined from
> petroleum or natural fibers grown and woven "industrially"?

Nope although where there is a choice I give preference to what I
perceive to be the more ethical option.
>
> What is it about modern methods of farming that makes it different from
> any other economic activity?

These other forms of economic activity don't involve raising animals
in what I consider to be unacceptable conditions.

> Humans have always sought to maximize
> yields from the least amount of inputs -- and farming is one of the
> industries which was first to do it (farming reduced nomadicism and
> hunting/gathering).
>
> > I willingly endure the inconvinience of having to
> > avoid
> > certain products but I have never seen the point of inconviniencing
> > myself
> > further by refusing to eat salad sandwiches from Subway just because
> > the
> > people serving them have recently handled meat. I might feel
> > differently
> > if I had spritual motivations but I don't think most veggies do.
>
> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in their
> motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.

"Dave" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> usual suspect wrote:


snip...

>>
>> Do you apply the same standards to other industries, or even
>> other forms
>> of agriculture? For instance, do you refuse to drive vehicles
>> that were
>> built on assembly lines? Do you refuse clothing made with
>> materials
>> derived from industrial processing -- whether synthetics
>> refined from
>> petroleum or natural fibers grown and woven "industrially"?
>
> Nope although where there is a choice I give preference to what
> I
> perceive to be the more ethical option.
>>
>> What is it about modern methods of farming that makes it
>> different from
>> any other economic activity?
>
> These other forms of economic activity don't involve raising
> animals
> in what I consider to be unacceptable conditions.
===========================
"raising" animals in what way? Monoculture cropping provides for
the 'raising' of
an unnatural number of animals for a given area, and then most of
them are "killed off"
when you take your factory farmed veggies away.



>
>> Humans have always sought to maximize
>> yields from the least amount of inputs -- and farming is one
>> of the
>> industries which was first to do it (farming reduced
>> nomadicism and
>> hunting/gathering).
>>
>> > I willingly endure the inconvinience of having to
>> > avoid
>> > certain products but I have never seen the point of
>> > inconviniencing
>> > myself
>> > further by refusing to eat salad sandwiches from Subway just
>> > because
>> > the
>> > people serving them have recently handled meat. I might feel
>> > differently
>> > if I had spritual motivations but I don't think most veggies
>> > do.
>>
>> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in
>> their
>> motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
>

rick wrote:
> "Anon" > wrote in message
> ...
>>> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in
>>> their motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
>> You do not know me and you do not know what I practice. If you
>> did know me, then you would know why I don't eat meat. Living
>> a spiritual life includes developing compassion towards not
>> only other human beings, but to souls in animal bodies as well.
> ===================================
> Then why do you continue to kill them for your entertainment,
> hypocrite?
> Following a simple rule for your simple mind does not
> spirituality make, killer.
>
>
>
> You are so confident in your
>> assumptions. Tell me, what is your definition of spiritual?
>> And please tell me how not eating animals products=
>> misanthropy.
>
>

Rick,

Take it up with God, not me.

"Anon" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>>> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in
>>>> their motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
>>> You do not know me and you do not know what I practice. If
>>> you did know me, then you would know why I don't eat meat.
>>> Living a spiritual life includes developing compassion
>>> towards not only other human beings, but to souls in animal
>>> bodies as well.
>> ===================================
>> Then why do you continue to kill them for your entertainment,
>> hypocrite?
>> Following a simple rule for your simple mind does not
>> spirituality make, killer.
>>
>>
>>
>> You are so confident in your
>>> assumptions. Tell me, what is your definition of spiritual?
>>> And please tell me how not eating animals products=
>>> misanthropy.
>>
>>
>
> Rick,
>
> Take it up with God, not me.
==============================
Which one, fool? I don't see any gods here making false claims
about 'caring' for animals
while tracking your bloody footprints all over usenet, killer.

rick wrote:
> "Anon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> rick wrote:
>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>>> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in
>>>>> their motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
>>>> You do not know me and you do not know what I practice. If
>>>> you did know me, then you would know why I don't eat meat.
>>>> Living a spiritual life includes developing compassion
>>>> towards not only other human beings, but to souls in animal
>>>> bodies as well.
>>> ===================================
>>> Then why do you continue to kill them for your entertainment,
>>> hypocrite?
>>> Following a simple rule for your simple mind does not
>>> spirituality make, killer.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You are so confident in your
>>>> assumptions. Tell me, what is your definition of spiritual?
>>>> And please tell me how not eating animals products=
>>>> misanthropy.
>>>
>> Rick,
>>
>> Take it up with God, not me.
> ==============================
> Which one, fool? I don't see any gods here making false claims
> about 'caring' for animals
> while tracking your bloody footprints all over usenet, killer.
>
>


Rick, are you happy? Not just ok, but happy?

"Anon" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> rick wrote:
>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>>> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in
>>>>>> their motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the
>>>>>> doubt.
>>>>> You do not know me and you do not know what I practice. If
>>>>> you did know me, then you would know why I don't eat meat.
>>>>> Living a spiritual life includes developing compassion
>>>>> towards not only other human beings, but to souls in animal
>>>>> bodies as well.
>>>> ===================================
>>>> Then why do you continue to kill them for your
>>>> entertainment, hypocrite?
>>>> Following a simple rule for your simple mind does not
>>>> spirituality make, killer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You are so confident in your
>>>>> assumptions. Tell me, what is your definition of
>>>>> spiritual? And please tell me how not eating animals
>>>>> products= misanthropy.
>>>>
>>> Rick,
>>>
>>> Take it up with God, not me.
>> ==============================
>> Which one, fool? I don't see any gods here making false
>> claims about 'caring' for animals
>> while tracking your bloody footprints all over usenet, killer.
>
>
> Rick, are you happy? Not just ok, but happy?
=================
I'm wonderfully happy, fool. I see you cannot answer simple
questions. Must be too much following a simple rule for your
simple mind, eh killer? I ask again, why do you kill animals for
your entertainmnet while claiming to care? Or, is it like all
usenet vegans, you only "care" about the animals you think others
are killing? Your supposed spirituality is a bunch of hooey,
plain and simple, like your mind...

Anon wrote:
>
> rick wrote:
> > "Anon" > wrote in message
> > ...

> You are not telling the truth Rick. You aren't happy. The first step
> in the process of acheiving happiness is to admit to yourself that you
> aren't happy.

I suspect he's not getting his leg over enough. Such a cute guy too!

rick wrote:
> "Anon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> rick wrote:
>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> rick wrote:
>>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>>> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in
>>>>>>> their motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the
>>>>>>> doubt.
>>>>>> You do not know me and you do not know what I practice. If
>>>>>> you did know me, then you would know why I don't eat meat.
>>>>>> Living a spiritual life includes developing compassion
>>>>>> towards not only other human beings, but to souls in animal
>>>>>> bodies as well.
>>>>> ===================================
>>>>> Then why do you continue to kill them for your
>>>>> entertainment, hypocrite?
>>>>> Following a simple rule for your simple mind does not
>>>>> spirituality make, killer.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> You are so confident in your
>>>>>> assumptions. Tell me, what is your definition of
>>>>>> spiritual? And please tell me how not eating animals
>>>>>> products= misanthropy.
>>>> Rick,
>>>>
>>>> Take it up with God, not me.
>>> ==============================
>>> Which one, fool? I don't see any gods here making false
>>> claims about 'caring' for animals
>>> while tracking your bloody footprints all over usenet, killer.
>>
>> Rick, are you happy? Not just ok, but happy?
> =================
> I'm wonderfully happy, fool. I see you cannot answer simple
> questions. Must be too much following a simple rule for your
> simple mind, eh killer? I ask again, why do you kill animals for
> your entertainmnet while claiming to care? Or, is it like all
> usenet vegans, you only "care" about the animals you think others
> are killing? Your supposed spirituality is a bunch of hooey,
> plain and simple, like your mind...
>
>
>

Rick, there is only one Supreme Being (God).


You are not telling the truth Rick. You aren't happy. The first step
in the process of acheiving happiness is to admit to yourself that you
aren't happy.

"Anon" > wrote in message
...
> rick wrote:
>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> rick wrote:
>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> rick wrote:
>>>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual
>>>>>>>> in their motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the
>>>>>>>> doubt.
>>>>>>> You do not know me and you do not know what I practice.
>>>>>>> If you did know me, then you would know why I don't eat
>>>>>>> meat. Living a spiritual life includes developing
>>>>>>> compassion towards not only other human beings, but to
>>>>>>> souls in animal bodies as well.
>>>>>> ===================================
>>>>>> Then why do you continue to kill them for your
>>>>>> entertainment, hypocrite?
>>>>>> Following a simple rule for your simple mind does not
>>>>>> spirituality make, killer.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You are so confident in your
>>>>>>> assumptions. Tell me, what is your definition of
>>>>>>> spiritual? And please tell me how not eating animals
>>>>>>> products= misanthropy.
>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>
>>>>> Take it up with God, not me.
>>>> ==============================
>>>> Which one, fool? I don't see any gods here making false
>>>> claims about 'caring' for animals
>>>> while tracking your bloody footprints all over usenet,
>>>> killer.
>>>
>>> Rick, are you happy? Not just ok, but happy?
>> =================
>> I'm wonderfully happy, fool. I see you cannot answer simple
>> questions. Must be too much following a simple rule for your
>> simple mind, eh killer? I ask again, why do you kill animals
>> for your entertainmnet while claiming to care? Or, is it like
>> all usenet vegans, you only "care" about the animals you think
>> others are killing? Your supposed spirituality is a bunch of
>> hooey, plain and simple, like your mind...
>>
>>
>>
>
> Rick, there is only one Supreme Being (God).
>
>
> You are not telling the truth Rick. You aren't happy. The
> first step in the process of acheiving happiness is to admit to
> yourself that you aren't happy.
=============================
ROTFLMAo Thank you doctor hooey... i'd say that those that
have to tell others they are unhappy are doing a bit of
projection, fool.

Again, thanks for ignoring the discussion and proving you have
nothing to add...

"Lady Muck" > wrote in message
...
> Anon wrote:
>>
>> rick wrote:
>> > "Anon" > wrote in message
>> > ...
>
>> You are not telling the truth Rick. You aren't happy. The
>> first step
>> in the process of acheiving happiness is to admit to yourself
>> that you
>> aren't happy.
>
> I suspect he's not getting his leg over enough. Such a cute guy
> too!
==========================
Don't need to honey... I let her do the riding..

rick wrote:
> "Anon" > wrote in message
> ...
>> rick wrote:
>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> rick wrote:
>>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> rick wrote:
>>>>>>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>>>>>>> ...
>>>>>>>>> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual
>>>>>>>>> in their motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the
>>>>>>>>> doubt.
>>>>>>>> You do not know me and you do not know what I practice.
>>>>>>>> If you did know me, then you would know why I don't eat
>>>>>>>> meat. Living a spiritual life includes developing
>>>>>>>> compassion towards not only other human beings, but to
>>>>>>>> souls in animal bodies as well.
>>>>>>> ===================================
>>>>>>> Then why do you continue to kill them for your
>>>>>>> entertainment, hypocrite?
>>>>>>> Following a simple rule for your simple mind does not
>>>>>>> spirituality make, killer.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You are so confident in your
>>>>>>>> assumptions. Tell me, what is your definition of
>>>>>>>> spiritual? And please tell me how not eating animals
>>>>>>>> products= misanthropy.
>>>>>> Rick,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Take it up with God, not me.
>>>>> ==============================
>>>>> Which one, fool? I don't see any gods here making false
>>>>> claims about 'caring' for animals
>>>>> while tracking your bloody footprints all over usenet,
>>>>> killer.
>>>> Rick, are you happy? Not just ok, but happy?
>>> =================
>>> I'm wonderfully happy, fool. I see you cannot answer simple
>>> questions. Must be too much following a simple rule for your
>>> simple mind, eh killer? I ask again, why do you kill animals
>>> for your entertainmnet while claiming to care? Or, is it like
>>> all usenet vegans, you only "care" about the animals you think
>>> others are killing? Your supposed spirituality is a bunch of
>>> hooey, plain and simple, like your mind...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Rick, there is only one Supreme Being (God).
>>
>>
>> You are not telling the truth Rick. You aren't happy. The
>> first step in the process of acheiving happiness is to admit to
>> yourself that you aren't happy.
> =============================
> ROTFLMAo Thank you doctor hooey... i'd say that those that
> have to tell others they are unhappy are doing a bit of
> projection, fool.
>
> Again, thanks for ignoring the discussion and proving you have
> nothing to add...
>
>
>
>
Yo're right Rick, I'm not happy. Sure, I'm happy sometimes. In fact,
I'm rather content most of the time, but my happiness always depends on
external circustances. Do you think there's something wrong with
admitting that one is unhappy?

Anon wrote:
>> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in their
>> motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
>
> You do not know me

I didn't know John Wayne Gacy, Ted Bundy, Aileen Waurnos, or Jeff
Dahmer, either, but I've reached reasonable conclusions about what kind
of people they were based on their words and actions.

> and you do not know what I practice.

From your hyper-defensive reaction to my post, I would have to guess
you're vegan. So you "practice" a marginal extremist politic which
hypocritically judges people by what they eat, not by what they do,
without any consideration for what your consumption actually does. In
short, you attribute virtue to yourself for not eating meat even though
your diet and lifestyle cause many animals to die. This makes you a
hypocrite.

Your hypocrisy is exacerbated the moment you distinguish it as a virtue
by comparing yourself to others, particularly with regard to
spirituality. Vegans are charlatans, and that especially seems to be the
case when "veganism" is trumped as a sign of one's spirituality: the
Eastern religions adopted by Western vegans tend to allow for
consumption of meat.

Buddha ate meat; there are no prohibitions against meat consumption in
Buddhism, nor is there a sliding scale of virtue in Buddhism based upon
diet -- quite the opposite. Meat is also allowed in Hinduism, Islam, and
Judaism; there are adherents of each of those religions who will ascribe
abstinence of meat as a virtue, but it's not universally held in those
religions. Jesus said that it isn't what goes into one's mouth that
makes him or her holy, and St Paul wrote that people shouldn't judge one
another according to whether or not they eat meat.

Ultimately, though, veganism is misanthropic. Vegans oppose the world
around them and feebly try to isolate themselves from it. It's an
attempt -- a feeble one given that, when counting deaths of animals,
veganism is shown to be an empty gesture -- by immature Western
urbanites to cope with failure in other, significant areas of their
lives. They're openly hostile and antagonistic towards their surrounding
cultures. Veganism has less to do with animals and compassion than
rejecting the values of one's culture. That gets us right back to what
I've already written, that veganism then becomes the shoddy, false
standard by which morally feeble people like you judge yourself and others.

Finally, you presume that veganism is about diet. That's wrong. Veganism
is political and pseudo-philosophical. It has nothing to do with what
people eat than their phony gestures to the sham ideal that "if I don't
eat animals, no animals die." And that matter has been dealt with
exhaustively in AFV.

Dave wrote:
> usual suspect wrote:
>
>>Dave wrote:
>>
>>>Anon wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dave wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Lady Muck wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>rick wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Fred" > wrote in message
rnet.com...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan
>>>>>>>>recipe
>>>>>>>>is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
>>>>>>>>How about some posts about vegan food!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>=======================
>>>>>>>That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
>>>>>>>from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
>>>>>>>have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but spew
>>>>>>>their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good use?
>>>>>>>And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
>>>>>>>death and suffering of many more animals.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>In article
hlink.net>,
says...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
>>>>>>>>>animals
>>>>>>>>>is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
>>>>>>>>>their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
>>>>>>>>>consequences..
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh well, your
>>>>>>luck is IN today!
>>>>>>I would be more concerned that the servers wear those dreadful gloves
>>>>>>and put their hands all over meat products then grab and shove the
>>>>>>vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a change of
>>>>>>gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated already.
>>>>>
>>>>>One thing I have never understood is why veggies make such a big deal
>>>>>of things like this. The microscopic traces of meat that may
>>>>>contaminate your
>>>>>veggie food is not going to make the blindest bit of difference to your
>>>>>health
>>>>>and you are not condoning or financially supporting the meat industry
>>>>>in any way by accepting the product. Apart from inconviniencing the
>>>>>staff
>>>>>and making vegetarians appear petty what do you hope to achieve by
>>>>>objecting to it?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves or no gloves.
>>>>>>X
>>>>>
>>>>Dave,
>>>>
>>>>It's easier to understand once you go veggie. Your perception of meat
>>>>begins to change and after a while, even the idea of eating meat is
>>>>unappetizing. For me, the reasons go beyond that. I have spiritual
>>>>reasons for not eating meat which I've elaborated on in the past.
>>>>Basically animals, even the ones that we eat, are God's children. I
>>>>offer all of my food to God before i eat it and I would not want to
>>>>offer God anything that contained even the slightest trace of the body
>>>>of his other children. it would be disrespectful. I will not even eat
>>>>cheese made with animal rennet even though the rennet is a product only
>>>>derived from animals.
>>>>
>>>>It may be hard to understand this if you could care less whether or not
>>>>animal products or flesh were in your food, but to someone who on a
>>>>daily basis must inconveience him or herself to live a life style that
>>>>they feel is a moral or spiritual must, the idea of even a little bit of
>>>>meat is disturbing. I, and many other veggies, don't even like to smell
>>>>meat.
>>>
>>>
>>>Although not strict veggie as such I'd hardly describe myself as
>>>someone
>>>who couldn't care less what is in my food. I abhor modern methods of
>>>factory farming and try to avoid any products that offer financial
>>>support
>>>to such methods.
>>
>>Do you apply the same standards to other industries, or even other forms
>>of agriculture? For instance, do you refuse to drive vehicles that were
>>built on assembly lines? Do you refuse clothing made with materials
>>derived from industrial processing -- whether synthetics refined from
>>petroleum or natural fibers grown and woven "industrially"?
>
> Nope although where there is a choice I give preference to what I
> perceive to be the more ethical option.

Upon what standard is your sense of ethics based?

>>What is it about modern methods of farming that makes it different from
>>any other economic activity?
>
> These other forms of economic activity don't involve raising animals
> in what I consider to be unacceptable conditions.

What's unacceptable about it?

>>Humans have always sought to maximize
>>yields from the least amount of inputs -- and farming is one of the
>>industries which was first to do it (farming reduced nomadicism and
>>hunting/gathering).
>>
>>
>>>I willingly endure the inconvinience of having to
>>>avoid
>>>certain products but I have never seen the point of inconviniencing
>>>myself
>>>further by refusing to eat salad sandwiches from Subway just because
>>>the
>>>people serving them have recently handled meat. I might feel
>>>differently
>>>if I had spritual motivations but I don't think most veggies do.
>>
>>So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in their
>>motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
>
>

Anon wrote:
> rick wrote:
>
>> "Anon" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in their
>>>> motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
>>>
>>> You do not know me and you do not know what I practice. If you did
>>> know me, then you would know why I don't eat meat. Living a
>>> spiritual life includes developing compassion towards not only other
>>> human beings, but to souls in animal bodies as well.
>>
>> ===================================
>> Then why do you continue to kill them for your entertainment, hypocrite?
>> Following a simple rule for your simple mind does not spirituality
>> make, killer.
>>
>>
>>
>> You are so confident in your
>>
>>> assumptions. Tell me, what is your definition of spiritual? And
>>> please tell me how not eating animals products= misanthropy.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Rick,
>
> Take it up with God, not me.

Which god forbids eating meat or allows believers to judge themselves or
others according to diet?

usual suspect wrote:
> Dave wrote:
> > usual suspect wrote:
> >
> >>Dave wrote:
> >>
> >>>Anon wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Dave wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Lady Muck wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>rick wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>"Fred" > wrote in message
> rnet.com...
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a non-vegan
> >>>>>>>>recipe
> >>>>>>>>is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
> >>>>>>>>How about some posts about vegan food!
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>=======================
> >>>>>>>That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when they come
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are imported
> >>>>>>>from all around the world. They are all tainted with massive
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that vegans
> >>>>>>>have no problem killing animals and leaving them to rot, but spew
> >>>>>>>their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to good use?
> >>>>>>>And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes to the
> >>>>>>>death and suffering of many more animals.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>In article
> hlink.net>,
> says...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering to
> >>>>>>>>>animals
> >>>>>>>>>is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple rule for
> >>>>>>>>>their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
> >>>>>>>>>consequences..
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG time.Oh well, your
> >>>>>>luck is IN today!
> >>>>>>I would be more concerned that the servers wear those dreadful gloves
> >>>>>>and put their hands all over meat products then grab and shove the
> >>>>>>vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask for a change of
> >>>>>>gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been contaminated already.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>One thing I have never understood is why veggies make such a big deal
> >>>>>of things like this. The microscopic traces of meat that may
> >>>>>contaminate your
> >>>>>veggie food is not going to make the blindest bit of difference to your
> >>>>>health
> >>>>>and you are not condoning or financially supporting the meat industry
> >>>>>in any way by accepting the product. Apart from inconviniencing the
> >>>>>staff
> >>>>>and making vegetarians appear petty what do you hope to achieve by
> >>>>>objecting to it?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat, gloves or no gloves.
> >>>>>>X
> >>>>>
> >>>>Dave,
> >>>>
> >>>>It's easier to understand once you go veggie. Your perception of meat
> >>>>begins to change and after a while, even the idea of eating meat is
> >>>>unappetizing. For me, the reasons go beyond that. I have spiritual
> >>>>reasons for not eating meat which I've elaborated on in the past.
> >>>>Basically animals, even the ones that we eat, are God's children. I
> >>>>offer all of my food to God before i eat it and I would not want to
> >>>>offer God anything that contained even the slightest trace of the body
> >>>>of his other children. it would be disrespectful. I will not even eat
> >>>>cheese made with animal rennet even though the rennet is a product only
> >>>>derived from animals.
> >>>>
> >>>>It may be hard to understand this if you could care less whether or not
> >>>>animal products or flesh were in your food, but to someone who on a
> >>>>daily basis must inconveience him or herself to live a life style that
> >>>>they feel is a moral or spiritual must, the idea of even a little bit of
> >>>>meat is disturbing. I, and many other veggies, don't even like to smell
> >>>>meat.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Although not strict veggie as such I'd hardly describe myself as
> >>>someone
> >>>who couldn't care less what is in my food. I abhor modern methods of
> >>>factory farming and try to avoid any products that offer financial
> >>>support
> >>>to such methods.
> >>
> >>Do you apply the same standards to other industries, or even other forms
> >>of agriculture? For instance, do you refuse to drive vehicles that were
> >>built on assembly lines? Do you refuse clothing made with materials
> >>derived from industrial processing -- whether synthetics refined from
> >>petroleum or natural fibers grown and woven "industrially"?
> >
> > Nope although where there is a choice I give preference to what I
> > perceive to be the more ethical option.
>
> Upon what standard is your sense of ethics based?
>
> >>What is it about modern methods of farming that makes it different from
> >>any other economic activity?
> >
> > These other forms of economic activity don't involve raising animals
> > in what I consider to be unacceptable conditions.
>
> What's unacceptable about it?

The welfare needs of the animals are treated as trivial compared
with their economic potential.
>
> >>Humans have always sought to maximize
> >>yields from the least amount of inputs -- and farming is one of the
> >>industries which was first to do it (farming reduced nomadicism and
> >>hunting/gathering).
> >>
> >>
> >>>I willingly endure the inconvinience of having to
> >>>avoid
> >>>certain products but I have never seen the point of inconviniencing
> >>>myself
> >>>further by refusing to eat salad sandwiches from Subway just because
> >>>the
> >>>people serving them have recently handled meat. I might feel
> >>>differently
> >>>if I had spritual motivations but I don't think most veggies do.
> >>
> >>So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in their
> >>motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
> >
> >

rick wrote:
> "Dave" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > usual suspect wrote:
>
>
> snip...
>
> >>
> >> Do you apply the same standards to other industries, or even
> >> other forms
> >> of agriculture? For instance, do you refuse to drive vehicles
> >> that were
> >> built on assembly lines? Do you refuse clothing made with
> >> materials
> >> derived from industrial processing -- whether synthetics
> >> refined from
> >> petroleum or natural fibers grown and woven "industrially"?
> >
> > Nope although where there is a choice I give preference to what
> > I
> > perceive to be the more ethical option.
> >>
> >> What is it about modern methods of farming that makes it
> >> different from
> >> any other economic activity?
> >
> > These other forms of economic activity don't involve raising
> > animals
> > in what I consider to be unacceptable conditions.
> ===========================
> "raising" animals in what way? Monoculture cropping provides for
> the 'raising' of
> an unnatural number of animals for a given area, and then most of
> them are "killed off"
> when you take your factory farmed veggies away.

Yes, they die at the end of their lives and the deaths aren't
necessarily
humane but they are relatively brief compared with (eg) the cages
battery hens are typically kept in for their WHOLE lives.

> >> Humans have always sought to maximize
> >> yields from the least amount of inputs -- and farming is one
> >> of the
> >> industries which was first to do it (farming reduced
> >> nomadicism and
> >> hunting/gathering).
> >>
> >> > I willingly endure the inconvinience of having to
> >> > avoid
> >> > certain products but I have never seen the point of
> >> > inconviniencing
> >> > myself
> >> > further by refusing to eat salad sandwiches from Subway just
> >> > because
> >> > the
> >> > people serving them have recently handled meat. I might feel
> >> > differently
> >> > if I had spritual motivations but I don't think most veggies
> >> > do.
> >>
> >> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in
> >> their
> >> motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
> >

"Dave" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> rick wrote:
>> "Dave" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > usual suspect wrote:
>>
>>
>> snip...
>>
>> >>
>> >> Do you apply the same standards to other industries, or
>> >> even
>> >> other forms
>> >> of agriculture? For instance, do you refuse to drive
>> >> vehicles
>> >> that were
>> >> built on assembly lines? Do you refuse clothing made with
>> >> materials
>> >> derived from industrial processing -- whether synthetics
>> >> refined from
>> >> petroleum or natural fibers grown and woven "industrially"?
>> >
>> > Nope although where there is a choice I give preference to
>> > what
>> > I
>> > perceive to be the more ethical option.
>> >>
>> >> What is it about modern methods of farming that makes it
>> >> different from
>> >> any other economic activity?
>> >
>> > These other forms of economic activity don't involve raising
>> > animals
>> > in what I consider to be unacceptable conditions.
>> ===========================
>> "raising" animals in what way? Monoculture cropping provides
>> for
>> the 'raising' of
>> an unnatural number of animals for a given area, and then most
>> of
>> them are "killed off"
>> when you take your factory farmed veggies away.
>
> Yes, they die at the end of their lives and the deaths aren't
> necessarily
> humane but they are relatively brief compared with (eg) the
> cages
> battery hens are typically kept in for their WHOLE lives.
> ==============================
Ummm, I don't see these cages for the chickens that are running
around my back yard. can you give me a clue where they are? i'm
sure the chickens would like to know too.
The 'end of their lives' for many fileds animals is very short.
Mortality for whole litters is not always very high.
Your providing for the adult animals to continue to breed in
unnatural numbers provides for this very short, very inhumane
life.


>> >> Humans have always sought to maximize
>> >> yields from the least amount of inputs -- and farming is
>> >> one
>> >> of the
>> >> industries which was first to do it (farming reduced
>> >> nomadicism and
>> >> hunting/gathering).
>> >>
>> >> > I willingly endure the inconvinience of having to
>> >> > avoid
>> >> > certain products but I have never seen the point of
>> >> > inconviniencing
>> >> > myself
>> >> > further by refusing to eat salad sandwiches from Subway
>> >> > just
>> >> > because
>> >> > the
>> >> > people serving them have recently handled meat. I might
>> >> > feel
>> >> > differently
>> >> > if I had spritual motivations but I don't think most
>> >> > veggies
>> >> > do.
>> >>
>> >> So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in
>> >> their
>> >> motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
>> >
>

"Dave" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> usual suspect wrote:
>> Dave wrote:
>> > usual suspect wrote:
>> >
>> >>Dave wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Anon wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>>Dave wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>Lady Muck wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>rick wrote:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>"Fred" > wrote in message
>> rnet.com...
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>Well, I wasn't trying to prove anything except that a
>> >>>>>>>>non-vegan
>> >>>>>>>>recipe
>> >>>>>>>>is Off Topic on a group called alt.food.*vegan*.
>> >>>>>>>>How about some posts about vegan food!
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>=======================
>> >>>>>>>That's my point. There are no real vegan foods when
>> >>>>>>>they come
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>from massive mono-culture crop operations and/or are
>> >>>>>>>imported
>> >>>>>>>from all around the world. They are all tainted with
>> >>>>>>>massive
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>amounts of animals death and suffering. Why is it that
>> >>>>>>>vegans
>> >>>>>>>have no problem killing animals and leaving them to
>> >>>>>>>rot, but spew
>> >>>>>>>their hatred of those that at least put dead animals to
>> >>>>>>>good use?
>> >>>>>>>And, to top it off, posting them to usenet contributes
>> >>>>>>>to the
>> >>>>>>>death and suffering of many more animals.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>In article
>> hlink.net>,
>> says...
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>Thanks for again proving that causing less suffering
>> >>>>>>>>>to
>> >>>>>>>>>animals
>> >>>>>>>>>is not a vegan concern. All they follow is a simple
>> >>>>>>>>>rule for
>> >>>>>>>>>their simple minds, 'eat no meat,' regardless of the
>> >>>>>>>>>consequences..
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>Rick - sweetie. I haven't posted to you for a LONG
>> >>>>>>time.Oh well, your
>> >>>>>>luck is IN today!
>> >>>>>>I would be more concerned that the servers wear those
>> >>>>>>dreadful gloves
>> >>>>>>and put their hands all over meat products then grab and
>> >>>>>>shove the
>> >>>>>>vegetarian products with the SAME gloves. Even if I ask
>> >>>>>>for a change of
>> >>>>>>gloves it's TOO LATE, the veggie grub has been
>> >>>>>>contaminated already.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>One thing I have never understood is why veggies make
>> >>>>>such a big deal
>> >>>>>of things like this. The microscopic traces of meat that
>> >>>>>may
>> >>>>>contaminate your
>> >>>>>veggie food is not going to make the blindest bit of
>> >>>>>difference to your
>> >>>>>health
>> >>>>>and you are not condoning or financially supporting the
>> >>>>>meat industry
>> >>>>>in any way by accepting the product. Apart from
>> >>>>>inconviniencing the
>> >>>>>staff
>> >>>>>and making vegetarians appear petty what do you hope to
>> >>>>>achieve by
>> >>>>>objecting to it?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>Not that I'd mind grabbing YOUR little bit of meat,
>> >>>>>>gloves or no gloves.
>> >>>>>>X
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>Dave,
>> >>>>
>> >>>>It's easier to understand once you go veggie. Your
>> >>>>perception of meat
>> >>>>begins to change and after a while, even the idea of
>> >>>>eating meat is
>> >>>>unappetizing. For me, the reasons go beyond that. I have
>> >>>>spiritual
>> >>>>reasons for not eating meat which I've elaborated on in
>> >>>>the past.
>> >>>>Basically animals, even the ones that we eat, are God's
>> >>>>children. I
>> >>>>offer all of my food to God before i eat it and I would
>> >>>>not want to
>> >>>>offer God anything that contained even the slightest trace
>> >>>>of the body
>> >>>>of his other children. it would be disrespectful. I will
>> >>>>not even eat
>> >>>>cheese made with animal rennet even though the rennet is a
>> >>>>product only
>> >>>>derived from animals.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>It may be hard to understand this if you could care less
>> >>>>whether or not
>> >>>>animal products or flesh were in your food, but to someone
>> >>>>who on a
>> >>>>daily basis must inconveience him or herself to live a
>> >>>>life style that
>> >>>>they feel is a moral or spiritual must, the idea of even a
>> >>>>little bit of
>> >>>>meat is disturbing. I, and many other veggies, don't even
>> >>>>like to smell
>> >>>>meat.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>Although not strict veggie as such I'd hardly describe
>> >>>myself as
>> >>>someone
>> >>>who couldn't care less what is in my food. I abhor modern
>> >>>methods of
>> >>>factory farming and try to avoid any products that offer
>> >>>financial
>> >>>support
>> >>>to such methods.
>> >>
>> >>Do you apply the same standards to other industries, or even
>> >>other forms
>> >>of agriculture? For instance, do you refuse to drive
>> >>vehicles that were
>> >>built on assembly lines? Do you refuse clothing made with
>> >>materials
>> >>derived from industrial processing -- whether synthetics
>> >>refined from
>> >>petroleum or natural fibers grown and woven "industrially"?
>> >
>> > Nope although where there is a choice I give preference to
>> > what I
>> > perceive to be the more ethical option.
>>
>> Upon what standard is your sense of ethics based?
>>
>> >>What is it about modern methods of farming that makes it
>> >>different from
>> >>any other economic activity?
>> >
>> > These other forms of economic activity don't involve raising
>> > animals
>> > in what I consider to be unacceptable conditions.
>>
>> What's unacceptable about it?
>
> The welfare needs of the animals are treated as trivial
> compared
> with their economic potential.
>>===============================
LOL They are still given more consideration than the animals
that die for your mono-culture crops, dave.
The animals you rant about are the business of the farmers. They
aren't going to kill them off prior to reaching
the point where they make a profit. The ones that die for your
crops are the ones that are not only treated trivially, but
aren't even considered except for how to kill as many as possible
when they become a nuisance.



>> >>Humans have always sought to maximize
>> >>yields from the least amount of inputs -- and farming is one
>> >>of the
>> >>industries which was first to do it (farming reduced
>> >>nomadicism and
>> >>hunting/gathering).
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>I willingly endure the inconvinience of having to
>> >>>avoid
>> >>>certain products but I have never seen the point of
>> >>>inconviniencing
>> >>>myself
>> >>>further by refusing to eat salad sandwiches from Subway
>> >>>just because
>> >>>the
>> >>>people serving them have recently handled meat. I might
>> >>>feel
>> >>>differently
>> >>>if I had spritual motivations but I don't think most
>> >>>veggies do.
>> >>
>> >>So-called vegans are misanthropic rather than spiritual in
>> >>their
>> >>motivations. Don't give them the benefit of the doubt.
>> >
>> >
>