Hello everybody,
I've stopped eating meat/fish/seafood one and a half months ago, and
sometime in the future I might want to go vegan, but I don't really
want to discuss any ethical issues right now... I just happen to have
some practical problems with it, where I could use some advice from the
experienced.

1) A friend of mine told me that she once was short of vitamin B12
because of her bulimia, started to become numb in her hands and feet
and was forced by her doctor to eat red meat three times a day. I read
that the supply of B12 is one of the major problems for
vegetarians/vegans. At the moment, I eat some milk and cheese and my
breakfast cereals are fortified with B12 (among others). Is that enough
or should I think of taking some supplements?

2) Are there any other substances, where a vegetarian diet might be
insufficient (protein, ...) I am not an expert on nutrition and I
don't have the time to really plan exactly what I eat. Actually, that's
one of the reasons, I still eat milk and cheese (which I don't like too
much), as I fear that a badly-planned strictly vegan diet might be
dangerous for my health. Are there any general easy-to-remember hints
for vegetarians, like "eat a lot of that kind of food and of that kind
of food"?

3) My shopping possibilities are rather restricted. I don't own a car,
so I'm forced to shop in the supermarkets close to where I live (Nice,
Southern France); the choice in vegetables and fruits is OK but when it
comes to, say soy bean products like tofu or cereal based food other
than pasta, it gets rather difficult. If anybody knows any web sites
with veg. shopping hints for France, I'd appreciate it. I know this is
maybe not the right place to ask this question, but I haven't found
anything in French (but maybe that's because there are no vegetarians
in France; I haven't met any yet, whereas in my home-country Germany, I
know quite a lot).

4) I find the social pressure very hard to deal with. Actually, I even
avoid telling anybody that I'm a vegetarian, because every meat eater
starts trying to talk me out of it. It's a personal choice, because I'm
disgusted with meat, I don't impose it on anybody, and I don't see why
I should defend myself. How to deal with agressive meat eaters? Most of
the time, it's more implicit: For example, yesterday, in a restaurant
there was no vegetarian food available, actually there were only
hamburgers with french fries, so I ordered the burger without the meat
(just the buns, tomatoes, onions, etc.) and was stared at in a strange
way by everybody including the waiter who had to ask twice if I was
sure. This happens on an almost daily basis, as I have lunch at the
canteen at work, where you virtually always have to ask if you don't
want any meat. It feels like I'm always under the pressure to defend my
food choices. How do I deal with that without becoming aggressive
towards people who eat meat?

Thanks in advance,
Marc

wrote:

> Hello everybody,
> I've stopped eating meat/fish/seafood one and a half months ago, and
> sometime in the future I might want to go vegan, but I don't really
> want to discuss any ethical issues right now... I just happen to have
> some practical problems with it, where I could use some advice from the
> experienced.
>
> 1) A friend of mine told me that she once was short of vitamin B12
> because of her bulimia, started to become numb in her hands and feet
> and was forced by her doctor to eat red meat three times a day. I read
> that the supply of B12 is one of the major problems for
> vegetarians/vegans. At the moment, I eat some milk and cheese and my
> breakfast cereals are fortified with B12 (among others). Is that enough
> or should I think of taking some supplements?

B12 is not an issue per se for lacto vegetarians, but it could be for
everyone. My father, who was never a vegetarian needs B12 shots. I
have a low normal and choose to have B12 shots. At first I went every
few weeks for an injection, than I got the script for the syringes and
the B12 myself. When you have your next blood workup, get your B12 levels.
>
> 2) Are there any other substances, where a vegetarian diet might be
> insufficient (protein, ...) I am not an expert on nutrition and I
> don't have the time to really plan exactly what I eat. Actually, that's
> one of the reasons, I still eat milk and cheese (which I don't like too
> much), as I fear that a badly-planned strictly vegan diet might be
> dangerous for my health. Are there any general easy-to-remember hints
> for vegetarians, like "eat a lot of that kind of food and of that kind
> of food"?
>
Vegan diets are very healthy. Eat a wide variety of healthy foods. There
are plenty of vegan body builders, and I've been one for over 30 years.
> 3) My shopping possibilities are rather restricted. I don't own a car,
> so I'm forced to shop in the supermarkets close to where I live (Nice,
> Southern France); the choice in vegetables and fruits is OK but when it
> comes to, say soy bean products like tofu or cereal based food other
> than pasta, it gets rather difficult. If anybody knows any web sites
> with veg. shopping hints for France, I'd appreciate it. I know this is
> maybe not the right place to ask this question, but I haven't found
> anything in French (but maybe that's because there are no vegetarians
> in France; I haven't met any yet, whereas in my home-country Germany, I
> know quite a lot).
>
Do a google search.
> 4) I find the social pressure very hard to deal with. Actually, I even
> avoid telling anybody that I'm a vegetarian, because every meat eater
> starts trying to talk me out of it. It's a personal choice, because I'm
> disgusted with meat,
You simply need some inner fortitude. That's good for you. Ask them if
they want clogged arteries and cancer.

I don't impose it on anybody, and I don't see why
> I should defend myself. How to deal with agressive meat eaters? Most of
> the time, it's more implicit: For example, yesterday, in a restaurant
> there was no vegetarian food available, actually there were only
> hamburgers with french fries, so I ordered the burger without the meat
> (just the buns, tomatoes, onions, etc.) and was stared at in a strange
> way by everybody including the waiter who had to ask twice if I was
> sure. This happens on an almost daily basis, as I have lunch at the
> canteen at work, where you virtually always have to ask if you don't
> want any meat. It feels like I'm always under the pressure to defend my
> food choices. How do I deal with that without becoming aggressive
> towards people who eat meat?

Just be pilot and people will learn. A strong reaction invites follow ups.

>
> Thanks in advance,
> Marc
>
Good luck.

Beach Runner wrote:
> B12 is not an issue per se for lacto vegetarians, but it could be for
> everyone. My father, who was never a vegetarian needs B12 shots. I
> have a low normal and choose to have B12 shots. At first I went every
> few weeks for an injection, than I got the script for the syringes and
> the B12 myself. When you have your next blood workup, get your B12 levels.

Why shots? Why not supplements?

"4) I find the social pressure very hard to deal with. Actually, I even

avoid telling anybody that I'm a vegetarian, because every meat eater
starts trying to talk me out of it. It's a personal choice, because I'm

disgusted with meat, I don't impose it on anybody, and I don't see why
I should defend myself. How to deal with agressive meat eaters? Most of

the time, it's more implicit: For example, yesterday, in a restaurant
there was no vegetarian food available, actually there were only
hamburgers with french fries, so I ordered the burger without the meat
(just the buns, tomatoes, onions, etc.) and was stared at in a strange
way by everybody including the waiter who had to ask twice if I was
sure. This happens on an almost daily basis, as I have lunch at the
canteen at work, where you virtually always have to ask if you don't
want any meat. It feels like I'm always under the pressure to defend my

food choices. How do I deal with that without becoming aggressive
towards people who eat meat? "

I think this is difficult, but you learn to deal with it. I usually
assert myself and make sure they know what I want from the menu. If
they are still abrasive, I get up and leave. If they don't want to
cater to you there are other restaurants that will. The hardest thing
I find is family members trying to change my mind. They think it's
because I don't like the taste of meat and they say "my roast beef is
better than your aunts" Just assert yourself and eventually people
will back off and leave you alone. But don't be mean about it, because
then they will have a bad view of what you stand for.

Good Luck

Jerry Story wrote:
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>B12 is not an issue per se for lacto vegetarians, but it could be for
>>everyone. My father, who was never a vegetarian needs B12 shots. I
>>have a low normal and choose to have B12 shots. At first I went every
>>few weeks for an injection, than I got the script for the syringes and
>>the B12 myself. When you have your next blood workup, get your B12 levels.
>
>
> Why shots? Why not supplements?
>

Good question. The digestive system destroys most B12. Sublingual is
inefficient and not necessarily effective. B12 shots work great and
they are stored in the liver. I had tried sublingual B12 shots with no
effect. The shots had a dramatic effect.

Beach Runner wrote:
> Jerry Story wrote:
> > Why shots? Why not supplements?
>
> Good question. The digestive system destroys most B12. Sublingual is
> inefficient and not necessarily effective. B12 shots work great and
> they are stored in the liver. I had tried sublingual B12 shots with no
> effect. The shots had a dramatic effect.

Does that apply to methyl-B12? Most B12 that people take in supplements
is cyano-B12, the wrong kind, not used well.

wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> I've stopped eating meat/fish/seafood one and a half months ago, and
> sometime in the future I might want to go vegan, but I don't really
> want to discuss any ethical issues right now... I just happen to have
> some practical problems with it, where I could use some advice from the
> experienced.
>
> 1) A friend of mine told me that she once was short of vitamin B12
> because of her bulimia, started to become numb in her hands and feet
> and was forced by her doctor to eat red meat three times a day. I read
> that the supply of B12 is one of the major problems for
> vegetarians/vegans. At the moment, I eat some milk and cheese and my
> breakfast cereals are fortified with B12 (among others). Is that enough
> or should I think of taking some supplements?
>
> 2) Are there any other substances, where a vegetarian diet might be
> insufficient (protein, ...) I am not an expert on nutrition and I
> don't have the time to really plan exactly what I eat. Actually, that's
> one of the reasons, I still eat milk and cheese (which I don't like too
> much), as I fear that a badly-planned strictly vegan diet might be
> dangerous for my health. Are there any general easy-to-remember hints
> for vegetarians, like "eat a lot of that kind of food and of that kind
> of food"?

I recommend the following resources:
http://www.vegansociety.com/html/food/nutrition/
http://www.veganhealth.org/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157...Fencoding=UTF8

Also a good idea to see what reputable nutritional organisations have
to say on the topic and on nutrition generally.

> 3) My shopping possibilities are rather restricted. I don't own a car,
> so I'm forced to shop in the supermarkets close to where I live (Nice,
> Southern France); the choice in vegetables and fruits is OK but when it
> comes to, say soy bean products like tofu or cereal based food other
> than pasta, it gets rather difficult. If anybody knows any web sites
> with veg. shopping hints for France, I'd appreciate it. I know this is
> maybe not the right place to ask this question, but I haven't found
> anything in French (but maybe that's because there are no vegetarians
> in France; I haven't met any yet, whereas in my home-country Germany, I
> know quite a lot).

Sorry. I can't help with that one.
>
> 4) I find the social pressure very hard to deal with. Actually, I even
> avoid telling anybody that I'm a vegetarian, because every meat eater
> starts trying to talk me out of it. It's a personal choice, because I'm
> disgusted with meat, I don't impose it on anybody, and I don't see why
> I should defend myself. How to deal with agressive meat eaters?

Depends what they say.

>Most of
> the time, it's more implicit: For example, yesterday, in a restaurant
> there was no vegetarian food available, actually there were only
> hamburgers with french fries, so I ordered the burger without the meat
> (just the buns, tomatoes, onions, etc.) and was stared at in a strange
> way by everybody including the waiter who had to ask twice if I was
> sure.

Pretend not to notice or smile and joke about it. You need to
develop a thick skin but I guess that's easier said than done.

> This happens on an almost daily basis, as I have lunch at the
> canteen at work, where you virtually always have to ask if you don't
> want any meat.

Have you considered bringing food into work?

> It feels like I'm always under the pressure to defend my
> food choices. How do I deal with that without becoming aggressive
> towards people who eat meat?
> Thanks in advance,
> Marc

Beach Runner wrote:
> wrote:
>
> > Hello everybody,
> > I've stopped eating meat/fish/seafood one and a half months ago, and
> > sometime in the future I might want to go vegan, but I don't really
> > want to discuss any ethical issues right now... I just happen to have
> > some practical problems with it, where I could use some advice from the
> > experienced.
> >
> > 1) A friend of mine told me that she once was short of vitamin B12
> > because of her bulimia, started to become numb in her hands and feet
> > and was forced by her doctor to eat red meat three times a day. I read
> > that the supply of B12 is one of the major problems for
> > vegetarians/vegans. At the moment, I eat some milk and cheese and my
> > breakfast cereals are fortified with B12 (among others). Is that enough
> > or should I think of taking some supplements?
>
> B12 is not an issue per se for lacto vegetarians, but it could be for
> everyone. My father, who was never a vegetarian needs B12 shots. I
> have a low normal and choose to have B12 shots. At first I went every
> few weeks for an injection, than I got the script for the syringes and
> the B12 myself. When you have your next blood workup, get your B12 levels.
> >
> > 2) Are there any other substances, where a vegetarian diet might be
> > insufficient (protein, ...) I am not an expert on nutrition and I
> > don't have the time to really plan exactly what I eat. Actually, that's
> > one of the reasons, I still eat milk and cheese (which I don't like too
> > much), as I fear that a badly-planned strictly vegan diet might be
> > dangerous for my health. Are there any general easy-to-remember hints
> > for vegetarians, like "eat a lot of that kind of food and of that kind
> > of food"?
> >
> Vegan diets are very healthy. Eat a wide variety of healthy foods. There
> are plenty of vegan body builders, and I've been one for over 30 years.
> > 3) My shopping possibilities are rather restricted. I don't own a car,
> > so I'm forced to shop in the supermarkets close to where I live (Nice,
> > Southern France); the choice in vegetables and fruits is OK but when it
> > comes to, say soy bean products like tofu or cereal based food other
> > than pasta, it gets rather difficult. If anybody knows any web sites
> > with veg. shopping hints for France, I'd appreciate it. I know this is
> > maybe not the right place to ask this question, but I haven't found
> > anything in French (but maybe that's because there are no vegetarians
> > in France; I haven't met any yet, whereas in my home-country Germany, I
> > know quite a lot).
> >
> Do a google search.
> > 4) I find the social pressure very hard to deal with. Actually, I even
> > avoid telling anybody that I'm a vegetarian, because every meat eater
> > starts trying to talk me out of it. It's a personal choice, because I'm
> > disgusted with meat,
> You simply need some inner fortitude. That's good for you. Ask them if
> they want clogged arteries and cancer.

Is this good advice to someone wishing to avoid argument
and confrontation? I think not!

> I don't impose it on anybody, and I don't see why
> > I should defend myself. How to deal with agressive meat eaters? Most of
> > the time, it's more implicit: For example, yesterday, in a restaurant
> > there was no vegetarian food available, actually there were only
> > hamburgers with french fries, so I ordered the burger without the meat
> > (just the buns, tomatoes, onions, etc.) and was stared at in a strange
> > way by everybody including the waiter who had to ask twice if I was
> > sure. This happens on an almost daily basis, as I have lunch at the
> > canteen at work, where you virtually always have to ask if you don't
> > want any meat. It feels like I'm always under the pressure to defend my
> > food choices. How do I deal with that without becoming aggressive
> > towards people who eat meat?
>
> Just be pilot and people will learn. A strong reaction invites follow ups.
>
> >
> > Thanks in advance,
> > Marc
> >
> Good luck.

> http://www.veganhealth.org/

Thanks for the link. It's a very interesting page that I overlooked
when looking for information...

Marc

Jerry Story wrote:
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>Jerry Story wrote:
>>
>>>Why shots? Why not supplements?
>>
>>Good question. The digestive system destroys most B12. Sublingual is
>>inefficient and not necessarily effective. B12 shots work great and
>>they are stored in the liver. I had tried sublingual B12 shots with no
>>effect. The shots had a dramatic effect.
>
>
> Does that apply to methyl-B12? Most B12 that people take in supplements
> is cyano-B12, the wrong kind, not used well.
>
I just can go by my blood testing levels. They have shot way up and
stayed up, so it's hard to agree with you. I have rarely taken the
shots, while I was directed to take them every two weeks, I take them
about every two months. I went from about 200 to the mid 400s and stay
there.

Dave wrote:

> Beach Runner wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hello everybody,
>>>I've stopped eating meat/fish/seafood one and a half months ago, and
>>>sometime in the future I might want to go vegan, but I don't really
>>>want to discuss any ethical issues right now... I just happen to have
>>>some practical problems with it, where I could use some advice from the
>>>experienced.
>>>
>>>1) A friend of mine told me that she once was short of vitamin B12
>>>because of her bulimia, started to become numb in her hands and feet
>>>and was forced by her doctor to eat red meat three times a day. I read
>>>that the supply of B12 is one of the major problems for
>>>vegetarians/vegans. At the moment, I eat some milk and cheese and my
>>>breakfast cereals are fortified with B12 (among others). Is that enough
>>>or should I think of taking some supplements?
>>
>>B12 is not an issue per se for lacto vegetarians, but it could be for
>>everyone. My father, who was never a vegetarian needs B12 shots. I
>>have a low normal and choose to have B12 shots. At first I went every
>>few weeks for an injection, than I got the script for the syringes and
>>the B12 myself. When you have your next blood workup, get your B12 levels.
>>
>>>2) Are there any other substances, where a vegetarian diet might be
>>>insufficient (protein, ...) I am not an expert on nutrition and I
>>>don't have the time to really plan exactly what I eat. Actually, that's
>>>one of the reasons, I still eat milk and cheese (which I don't like too
>>>much), as I fear that a badly-planned strictly vegan diet might be
>>>dangerous for my health. Are there any general easy-to-remember hints
>>>for vegetarians, like "eat a lot of that kind of food and of that kind
>>>of food"?
>>>
>>
>>Vegan diets are very healthy. Eat a wide variety of healthy foods. There
>>are plenty of vegan body builders, and I've been one for over 30 years.
>>
>>>3) My shopping possibilities are rather restricted. I don't own a car,
>>>so I'm forced to shop in the supermarkets close to where I live (Nice,
>>>Southern France); the choice in vegetables and fruits is OK but when it
>>>comes to, say soy bean products like tofu or cereal based food other
>>>than pasta, it gets rather difficult. If anybody knows any web sites
>>>with veg. shopping hints for France, I'd appreciate it. I know this is
>>>maybe not the right place to ask this question, but I haven't found
>>>anything in French (but maybe that's because there are no vegetarians
>>>in France; I haven't met any yet, whereas in my home-country Germany, I
>>>know quite a lot).
>>>
>>
>>Do a google search.
>>
>>>4) I find the social pressure very hard to deal with. Actually, I even
>>>avoid telling anybody that I'm a vegetarian, because every meat eater
>>>starts trying to talk me out of it. It's a personal choice, because I'm
>>>disgusted with meat,
>>
>>You simply need some inner fortitude. That's good for you. Ask them if
>>they want clogged arteries and cancer.
>
If someone is being very obnoxious, that's the reality of the
situations. There's no question that meat contributes to artery disease.

>
> Is this good advice to someone wishing to avoid argument
> and confrontation? I think not!
>
>
>> I don't impose it on anybody, and I don't see why
>>
>>>I should defend myself. How to deal with agressive meat eaters? Most of
>>>the time, it's more implicit: For example, yesterday, in a restaurant
>>>there was no vegetarian food available, actually there were only
>>>hamburgers with french fries, so I ordered the burger without the meat
>>>(just the buns, tomatoes, onions, etc.) and was stared at in a strange
>>>way by everybody including the waiter who had to ask twice if I was
>>>sure. This happens on an almost daily basis, as I have lunch at the
>>>canteen at work, where you virtually always have to ask if you don't
>>>want any meat. It feels like I'm always under the pressure to defend my
>>>food choices. How do I deal with that without becoming aggressive
>>>towards people who eat meat?
>>
>>Just be pilot and people will learn. A strong reaction invites follow ups.
>>
>>
>>>Thanks in advance,
>>>Marc
>>>
>>
>>Good luck.
>
>

wrote:
> Hello everybody,
> I've stopped eating meat/fish/seafood one and a half months ago, and
> sometime in the future I might want to go vegan, but I don't really
> want to discuss any ethical issues right now... I just happen to have
> some practical problems with it, where I could use some advice from the
> experienced.

Your "how" questions are answered at these links, briefly, clearly and
for free. You can get both sites as very nice starter guides in book
form mailed to you for free in addition to reading them online.

This site is written by a Registered Dietician who is a vegan:
http://www.veganhealth.org

The starter pack
http://veganoutreach.org/starterpack/

Also
http://tryveg.com

Recipies:
http://www.vegweb.com
http://www.fatfree.com

rec.food.veg.cooking


Steve

Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html

"The great American thought trap: It is not real
unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
shopping mall"

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message news:I3KLf.40504
>....(edited)....The digestive system destroys most B12. Sublingual is
>inefficient and not necessarily effective. B12 shots work great and they
>are stored in the liver. I had tried sublingual B12 shots with no effect.
>The shots had a dramatic effect.
-------------------------

Apparently, you are different for some reason. At the link below, studies
are discussed which show that oral / sublingual B12 is very effective. One
concluded, for example:

".....Kuzminski et al. conclude that 2000 µg/day of oral cyanocobalamin was
as effective as 1000 µg injected intramuscularly each month, and may be
superior."

Link:
http://www.veganhealth.org/b12/formula

-H

I don't know about grocery stores, but there's a guide to restaurants
in Nice at http://www.linternaute.com/restauran.../6/24381/nice/
You can narrow it down in a drop-down menu (just select
"végétarien"). I haven't looked at how much these cost, either; but,
in case you happen to be going out, I suppose they're worth a look.
Best of luck!

-t