Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #81 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default It's been fun

Joe wrote:
>>>>He's also been paying taxes and/or insurance premiums his adult life; if
>>>>not, someone else has been. Stop the bullshit that it's "free"
>>>
>>>True enough it's not free. But it certainly feels that way when one is
>>>in such a case like his.

>>
>>It doesn't matter how it "feels" -- it isn't free.

>
> I'll put it another way. The burden of having to possibly pay a hefty
> fee for a completed medical procedure does not loom over you.


It doesn't hang over anyone here with insurance, either. I know, though,
that my company spends a very large sum so that I don't have to worry
about disease or injury. It's not free to my company, and it's really
not free to me, either, in the sense that it's a benefit that comes at
the expense of higher pay, etc.

>>>>care is overrated, creates waiting lists (many Canadians still come to
>>>>the US for care) and rationing of services, etc.
>>>
>>>Not too many really.

>>
>> On Jan. 18, 2003, the Canadian Press carried the headline, “Send
>> cancer patients to U.S., Alberta MDs urge.” The story begins,
>> “Breast-cancer patients whose wait to see a specialist has
>> jumped up to eight weeks from less than four should be sent out
>> of province for treatment, the president of the Alberta Medical
>> Association says....”
>>
>> [i]t isn’t against the law for Canadians to cross the U.S.
>> border and pay for care they can’t get in Canada. In fact, the
>> U.S. has become the safety valve for a foreign health care
>> system that would implode economically and politically without
>> access to U.S. doctors, hospitals and drugs.
>>
>> On Jan. 16, 2000, the New York Times titled a story, “Full
>> Hospitals Make Canadians Wait and Look South.” The article
>> concludes: “As a result, Canada has moved informally to a
>> two-tier, public-private system. Although private practice is
>> limited to dentists and veterinarians, 90 percent of Canadians
>> live within 100 miles of the United States, and many people are
>> crossing the border for private care.”
>> http://www.usanext.org/full_story.cf...&category_id=5
>>
>>See also:
>>http://www.pacificresearch.org/press...3-10-17sp.html

>
> That link is quite true in its facts. My friend was indeed in a
> critical [unbeknonwnst to him] situation, so due to that fact
> immediate consideration was given. However, surgeries tend to indeed
> crawl along here unfortunately. Private medical insurance is an option
> up here to offset such dilemnas.


I don't think you'd put your concerns about your own survival behind
considerations about how to pay for care in the US. The fact is, our
system -- whatever its flaws are -- remains a safety valve for those
facing rationed care (a line is a ration) in Canada; the Canadian system
does some things very well, but fails at many other things. Limited
access is NOT a feature I would find very appealing. I wouldn't have to
wait days (or weeks) for care here if I needed it.

>>>Only the wealthy can pursue that course.

>>
>>I concede it takes means to be able to pay medical bills, but I also
>>doubt that desperation for urgent care takes a back seat to wealth.
>>
>>>The rest of us can't afford it -

>>
>>I doubt you'd wait for "free care" if you're too concerned to wait to
>>see a specialist or have a procedure which is back-logged.

>
> Yes I agree. In actuality though for those [in Canada] who definately
> cannot afford such essential procedures you'll find many a time public
> donation drives will take place to pay for such costs involved.


Dittos here for those who lack insurance or whose expenses exceed their
coverage and ability to pay. It seems like we have benefits here in
Austin, the live music capital of the world, for musicians and their
families; they often lack health insurance.

>>>we're paying in part for the 'free' health
>>>care

>>
>>Not in part, in *whole*. You're also getting less and less for it as
>>costs rise, as doctors flee for more profitable environs, etc. Were it
>>not for the administrative costs (i.e., trying to cover everyone's ass
>>from trial lawyers) associated with US health care, we would have a less
>>expensive system with better benefits than Canada has.

>
> A presumption on my part, but I think the lawyers up here may be
> horribly worse regarding stretching out cases of all kinds with delays
> and postponements.


I don't care to boast about one nation's (especially mine) lawyers over
another nation's, but I'm not taking your word that yours are worse. I
know there are good lawyers who seek justice and a group of parasites
who suck off society through barratry and give the legal profession a
bad name in every country. Just seems we have more than our share of
lawyers (especially from the latter group).
  #82 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default It's been fun

poor Skanky wrote:
> The 'disenter' site looks good.


Only because you don't need a credit card for it.
  #83 (permalink)   Report Post  
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Default It's been fun

Skanky whined:
>>>>>Thanks, but even for their free service
>>>>>they want my credit card info.
>>>>
>>>>You don't have a credit card, slacker. You need an income above and
>>>>beyond welfare to have one.
>>>
>>>Still fishing

>>
>>No fishing reqired, Skanky. You're a carless, unambitious, dope-smoking
>>wastrel -- not the kind of person companies would extend credit.

>
> Good


I agree. Bad risks like you drive up their operating costs, requiring
them to charge more to good customers who pay their bills on time (or at
all).
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