I now have to say, I think it's pretty danged high.

They are both trolling this ng, and have the same ideas about
veganism. Now it's also been revealed that they both share
the same disbelief that the US is torturing people these days.
They both have the same obsession with this ng. The only
difference is that rick is the even more demented version
of this person's psyche.

> wrote in message
...
>
> I now have to say, I think it's pretty danged high.
>
> They are both trolling this ng, and have the same ideas about
> veganism.
=========================
The truth is the truth no matter who tells it, killer. Too bad
it escapes you, eh?


Now it's also been revealed that they both share
> the same disbelief that the US is torturing people these days.
===========================
I've yet to see you prove that such is the case, fool.


> They both have the same obsession with this ng. The only
> difference is that rick is the even more demented version
> of this person's psyche.
==========================
And you are the worst liar around, is that it? Why is it that
you are even too ignorant as to know how to post to usenet?
Willful ignorance, or just plain retarded.... Maybe it's your
diet, eh hypocrite?


>
>

wrote:
> I now have to say, I think it's pretty danged high.

Zero-percent. You lose. Loser.

> They are both trolling this ng,

Trolling: Deliberately posting false information in order to
elicit responses from people who really want to help. A typical
response might be, "No, Bart Simpson was NOT one of our founding
fathers."
http://www.vikont.com/clients/glossary.htm

Neither of us trolls.

> Now it's also been revealed that they both share
> the same disbelief that the US is torturing people these days.

It's your claim -- YOU PROVE the United States "is torturing people
these days."

<snip ad hominem attack>

I find they both usually offer informed replies. Aside from the
snipes, the arguments they present aren't demented imo.

On Mon, 21 Nov 2005 17:53:29 -0800, wrote:


>difference is that rick is the even more demented version
>of this person's psyche.
>
>


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On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:27:57 -0500, Joe >
wrote:

>I find they both usually offer informed replies. Aside from the
>snipes, the arguments they present aren't demented imo.

You think running around calling people "killer" at every
opportunity is not demented? I have an issue with your standards.


I think you contradict yourself:

>It's apparent you did nothing;
>Laugh at Usual and see him in the puny manhood he represents himselsf
>as on the internet. He's found his safe cozy niche as an online s--t
>disturber.... but only if you give him that satisfaction and high
>regard.
>All he's doing is playing King of the Pricks on the internet with his
>egghead intelligence as his crutch.
>You can bet he grew up this way too, whining to his mom at breakfast
>about boiling his eggs 30 seconds too long, and at school he probably
>learned very fast and painfully to keep his vile mischieviousness to
>himself.
>Usual regurgitates what he collects online very well but that
>shouldn't be equated to him having any status of significance, so
>above all take his snipes with a grain of salt - because he won't
>stop. He can't control himself. This is probably the only situation he
>feels any power in his life and yearns to feed off others intense
>attention he's given-in his case, the worse the better.
> If Usual was around a millenium earlier he'd have had a job as the
>King's lapdog/court jester/right-hand man[hand] jerker.

wrote:
>>I find they both usually offer informed replies. Aside from the
>>snipes, the arguments they present aren't demented imo.
>
> You think running around calling people "killer" at every
> opportunity is not demented?

No, but it's amusing.

> I have an issue with your standards.

I have issues with yours, "vegan."

> I think you contradict yourself:

I shouldn't defend Joe, especially considering what he wrote about me,
but he didn't contradict himself. He didn't accuse me of being demented,
nor did he suggest as much.

usual suspect wrote:

> wrote:
>
>>> I find they both usually offer informed replies. Aside from the
>>> snipes, the arguments they present aren't demented imo.
>>
>>
>> You think running around calling people "killer" at every opportunity
>> is not demented?
>
>
> No, but it's amusing.

No it's abusive. And your put downs of everyone. You don't discuss the
merits of issues, you insult. You treatment of woman is also subject to
analysis.


>
>> I have an issue with your standards.
>
>
> I have issues with yours, "vegan."
>
>> I think you contradict yourself:
>
>
> I shouldn't defend Joe, especially considering what he wrote about me,
> but he didn't contradict himself. He didn't accuse me of being demented,
> nor did he suggest as much.

wrote:
> I now have to say, I think it's pretty danged high.
>
> They are both trolling this ng, and have the same ideas about
> veganism. Now it's also been revealed that they both share
> the same disbelief that the US is torturing people these days.
> They both have the same obsession with this ng. The only
> difference is that rick is the even more demented version
> of this person's psyche.


two different boobs IMHO.
It's just that neither has anything truthful and forthright to say so
they end up sounding the same.

On 22 Nov 2005 10:37:24 -0800, wrote:

>
wrote:
>> I now have to say, I think it's pretty danged high.
>>
>> They are both trolling this ng, and have the same ideas about
>> veganism. Now it's also been revealed that they both share
>> the same disbelief that the US is torturing people these days.
>> They both have the same obsession with this ng. The only
>> difference is that rick is the even more demented version
>> of this person's psyche.
>
>
>two different boobs IMHO.
>It's just that neither has anything truthful and forthright to say so
>they end up sounding the same.

yeah, but the more beliefs they show to have in common, the higher the
likelihood. They have both shown that they don't beleive the US is
torturing anyone. What are the odds, of having two trolls on a vegan
ng, both of whom are obssessed with it, both of whom have to answer
every little thing, and now this. The more beliefs they have in
common, the higher the likelihood.

> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:27:57 -0500, Joe
> >
> wrote:
>
>>I find they both usually offer informed replies. Aside from the
>>snipes, the arguments they present aren't demented imo.
>
> You think running around calling people "killer" at every
> opportunity is not demented?
===========================
You take exception to truth? Oh yeah, you do. The truth is a
foreing concept to you, right? vegan come here and ly about not
killing animals for food. They are liars. They kill millions
uo]pon millions of animals for their food. That makes them, and
you, killers. You can cry and complain all you want, but it
won't change the truth, fool.


I have an issue with your standards.
===========================
What? He doesn't ly enough for you? Afterall, that's all you
have trolled here so far. Oh yeah, and killer.



>
>
> I think you contradict yourself:
>
>>It's apparent you did nothing;
>>Laugh at Usual and see him in the puny manhood he represents
>>himselsf
>>as on the internet. He's found his safe cozy niche as an online
>>s--t
>>disturber.... but only if you give him that satisfaction and
>>high
>>regard.
>>All he's doing is playing King of the Pricks on the internet
>>with his
>>egghead intelligence as his crutch.
>>You can bet he grew up this way too, whining to his mom at
>>breakfast
>>about boiling his eggs 30 seconds too long, and at school he
>>probably
>>learned very fast and painfully to keep his vile
>>mischieviousness to
>>himself.
>>Usual regurgitates what he collects online very well but that
>>shouldn't be equated to him having any status of significance,
>>so
>>above all take his snipes with a grain of salt - because he
>>won't
>>stop. He can't control himself. This is probably the only
>>situation he
>>feels any power in his life and yearns to feed off others
>>intense
>>attention he's given-in his case, the worse the better.
>> If Usual was around a millenium earlier he'd have had a job as
>> the
>>King's lapdog/court jester/right-hand man[hand] jerker.

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> usual suspect wrote:
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>> I find they both usually offer informed replies. Aside from
>>>> the
>>>> snipes, the arguments they present aren't demented imo.
>>>
>>>
>>> You think running around calling people "killer" at every
>>> opportunity is not demented?
>>
>>
>> No, but it's amusing.
>
> No it's abusive.
========================
So, the truth is abusive, eh? Well, I guess if you live your
life in delusions and lys it would seem that truth is abusive.
The fact that you and this little girl don't like the truth is
quite apparent and exposes the typical vegan head-in-the-sand.
Oh yeah, and you're a killer, eh fool?

And your put downs of everyone. You don't discuss the
> merits of issues, you insult. You treatment of woman is also
> subject to analysis.
>
>
>>
>>> I have an issue with your standards.
>>
>>
>> I have issues with yours, "vegan."
>>
>>> I think you contradict yourself:
>>
>>
>> I shouldn't defend Joe, especially considering what he wrote
>> about me, but he didn't contradict himself. He didn't accuse
>> me of being demented, nor did he suggest as much.

> wrote in message
...
> On 22 Nov 2005 10:37:24 -0800, wrote:
>
>>
wrote:
>>> I now have to say, I think it's pretty danged high.
>>>
>>> They are both trolling this ng, and have the same ideas about
>>> veganism. Now it's also been revealed that they both share
>>> the same disbelief that the US is torturing people these
>>> days.
>>> They both have the same obsession with this ng. The only
>>> difference is that rick is the even more demented version
>>> of this person's psyche.
>>
>>
>>two different boobs IMHO.
>>It's just that neither has anything truthful and forthright to
>>say so
>>they end up sounding the same.
>
> yeah, but the more beliefs they show to have in common, the
> higher the
> likelihood. They have both shown that they don't beleive the
> US is
> torturing anyone.
==============================
I see you still can't prove it, eh killer?


What are the odds, of having two trolls on a vegan
========================
So far, you are the only troll here fool. I suggest you learn
the meaning before showing yourself to be anymore ignorant than
you already have, killer...


> ng, both of whom are obssessed with it, both of whom have to
> answer
> every little thing, and now this. The more beliefs they have
> in
> common, the higher the likelihood.
=========================
So, by your logic, or lack of really, every vegan liar here on
usenet is the same person. Cool, I can call everyone the same
name, oh wait, they already are, eh killer?


>
>

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:47:01 -0800, wrote:

>
>You think running around calling people "killer" at every
>opportunity is not demented?

Hi Tracym,
Does not the overuse of 'killer/fool' tell you he types it just to
pester you?

To me the 'killer' and 'fool' thing is now a bit amusing too. I
imagine Rick always going to his clipboard before entering the NG,
copying fool/killer and pasting it into each reply post he makes even
before he starts typing his comment.

Mostly my unsavoury comments are due to me being a self-appointed
prick when I believed they jumped on someone excessively.... right or
wrong, that's just me and I admit it. Me hating what they might say
in the form of overboard insults upon occasion shouldn't be equated
with me hating them as people since I don't think they are dangerous
or demented.... twisted maybe- apart from their sourced arguments, but
I think I can play a good game of backgammon with them.

From what I've read they are indeed 2 different people; they'll slap
me silly if I need correcting here, but I believe Suspect said he was
a vegetarian who eats fish rarely, and Rick is a meat-man.
>
>I think you contradict yourself:
>
>>It's apparent you did nothing;
>>Laugh at Usual and see him in the puny manhood he represents himselsf
>>as on the internet. He's found his safe cozy niche as an online s--t
>>disturber.... but only if you give him that satisfaction and high
>>regard.
>>All he's doing is playing King of the Pricks on the internet with his
>>egghead intelligence as his crutch.
>>You can bet he grew up this way too, whining to his mom at breakfast
>>about boiling his eggs 30 seconds too long, and at school he probably
>>learned very fast and painfully to keep his vile mischieviousness to
>>himself.
>>Usual regurgitates what he collects online very well but that
>>shouldn't be equated to him having any status of significance, so
>>above all take his snipes with a grain of salt - because he won't
>>stop. He can't control himself. This is probably the only situation he
>>feels any power in his life and yearns to feed off others intense
>>attention he's given-in his case, the worse the better.
>> If Usual was around a millenium earlier he'd have had a job as the
>>King's lapdog/court jester/right-hand man[hand] jerker.



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---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

usual suspect wrote:
> wrote:
> >>I find they both usually offer informed replies. Aside from the
> >>snipes, the arguments they present aren't demented imo.
> >
> > You think running around calling people "killer" at every
> > opportunity is not demented?
>
> No, but it's amusing.
>
> > I have an issue with your standards.
>
> I have issues with yours, "vegan."
>
> > I think you contradict yourself:
>
> I shouldn't defend Joe, especially considering what he wrote about me,
> but he didn't contradict himself. He didn't accuse me of being demented,
> nor did he suggest as much.


He didn't have to.

"Joe" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 08:47:01 -0800, wrote:
>
>>
>>You think running around calling people "killer" at every
>>opportunity is not demented?
>
> Hi Tracym,
> Does not the overuse of 'killer/fool' tell you he types it just
> to
> pester you?
>
> To me the 'killer' and 'fool' thing is now a bit amusing too. I
> imagine Rick always going to his clipboard before entering the
> NG,
> copying fool/killer and pasting it into each reply post he
> makes even
> before he starts typing his comment.
==========================
Nope, I type it each time. It's the least I can do. But that
said, what part of calling anybody a killer is not truthful? I'm
a killer, you're a killer, tracy is a killer. What's amusing is
how that one word sends shockwaves through the brainwashed,
delusion vegan that comes here believing that their diet causes
no animal to die.

>
> Mostly my unsavoury comments are due to me being a
> self-appointed
> prick when I believed they jumped on someone excessively....
> right or
> wrong, that's just me and I admit it. Me hating what they
> might say
> in the form of overboard insults upon occasion shouldn't be
> equated
> with me hating them as people since I don't think they are
> dangerous
> or demented.... twisted maybe- apart from their sourced
> arguments, but
> I think I can play a good game of backgammon with them.
>
> From what I've read they are indeed 2 different people; they'll
> slap
> me silly if I need correcting here, but I believe Suspect said
> he was
> a vegetarian who eats fish rarely, and Rick is a meat-man.
=============================
Tried and true. But veggies have a proper place on my plate,
right beside the steak! Do you know that the 'typical' American
eats about 120 lbs of potatoes a year and about 65 pounds of beef
a year. That diet also includes about 86 lbs of oranges(freash
and juice) per person. Corn? Not as a veggie, but corn syrup,
over 60 lbs per person. Lets make a salad, tomatoes(~19lbs),
onions(~18lbs), carrots(~12lbs), lettuce(30lbs) Does that sound
like the propaganda that vegans like to spew about the 'typical'
diet being "meat-centric?" So, when I see a fool spew their
lys/delusions/propaganda I call them what they are, fools.


>>
>>I think you contradict yourself:
>>
>>>It's apparent you did nothing;
>>>Laugh at Usual and see him in the puny manhood he represents
>>>himselsf
>>>as on the internet. He's found his safe cozy niche as an
>>>online s--t
>>>disturber.... but only if you give him that satisfaction and
>>>high
>>>regard.
>>>All he's doing is playing King of the Pricks on the internet
>>>with his
>>>egghead intelligence as his crutch.
>>>You can bet he grew up this way too, whining to his mom at
>>>breakfast
>>>about boiling his eggs 30 seconds too long, and at school he
>>>probably
>>>learned very fast and painfully to keep his vile
>>>mischieviousness to
>>>himself.
>>>Usual regurgitates what he collects online very well but that
>>>shouldn't be equated to him having any status of significance,
>>>so
>>>above all take his snipes with a grain of salt - because he
>>>won't
>>>stop. He can't control himself. This is probably the only
>>>situation he
>>>feels any power in his life and yearns to feed off others
>>>intense
>>>attention he's given-in his case, the worse the better.
>>> If Usual was around a millenium earlier he'd have had a job
>>> as the
>>>King's lapdog/court jester/right-hand man[hand] jerker.
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
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> >100,000 Newsgroups
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On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 04:31:12 GMT, "rick" > wrote:

>

>Nope, I type it each time. It's the least I can do.
>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
>> Usenet News==----
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>> >100,000 Newsgroups
>> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
>> Encryption =---
>
Rick, I was just kidding,lol. I just imagined that happening :P

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wrote:
> two different boobs IMHO.

Speaking of boobs... how big are yours, soy boy?

Male infants experience a testosterone surge during the first
few months of life and produce androgens in amounts equal to
those of adult men. So much testosterone at such a tender age is
needed to program the body for puberty, the time when a male's
sex organs should develop and he should begin to express male
characteristics such as facial and pubic hair and a deep voice.
If receptor sites intended for the hormone testosterone are
occupied by soy estrogens, however, appropriate development may
never take place. To date, most of the evidence damning soy
formula can be found only in animal studies, because
investigations in which humans' sex hormone levels are lowered
experimentally cannot ethically be done. However, in the years
since soy formula has been in the marketplace, parents and
pediatricians have reported growing numbers of boys whose
physical maturation is either delayed or does not occur at all.
Breasts, underdeveloped gonads, undescended testicles
(cryptorchidism), and steroid insufficiencies are increasingly
common. Sperm counts are also falling.
http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...soy_story.html

On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:34:48 GMT, "rick" > wrote:

>=========================
>So, by your logic, or lack of really, every vegan liar here on
>usenet is the same person. Cool, I can call everyone the same
>name, oh wait, they already are, eh killer?


By your logic, I should call you a shit factory, and remind you that
you are one ever yday, all the time. You always were one, and always
will be. I will call you a shit factory ten times a day, every day.

And no, you don't have any logic, but I'm not even going to waste
my time to teach you about it, because all you want is attention.

> wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:34:48 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>
>>=========================
>>So, by your logic, or lack of really, every vegan liar here on
>>usenet is the same person. Cool, I can call everyone the same
>>name, oh wait, they already are, eh killer?
>
>
> By your logic, I should call you a shit factory, and remind you
> that
> you are one ever yday, all the time. You always were one, and
> always
> will be. I will call you a shit factory ten times a day,
> every day.
========================
As long as you understand that you are too, fool.


>
> And no, you don't have any logic, but I'm not even going to
> waste
> my time to teach you about it, because all you want is
> attention.
=================
Far more than you'll ever be able to display, killer.

"Joe" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 04:31:12 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>
>>
>
>>Nope, I type it each time. It's the least I can do.
>>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com -
>>> Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
>>> Usenet News==----
>>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
>>> World!
>>> >100,000 Newsgroups
>>> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
>>> Encryption =---
>>
> Rick, I was just kidding,lol. I just imagined that happening :P
====================
Ok, no problem. Have you now dropped any pretense to being here
to 'learn' anything about the issues discussed?
I thought you might at least respond to the data and question
about the 'typical' American diet. It's the one I'm sure you
have run across while investigating the "other side" of the
issue.



















>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
> Usenet News==----
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> 120,000+ Newsgroups
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> Encryption =----

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:02:48 GMT, "rick" > wrote:

>
> wrote in message
.. .
>> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:34:48 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>
>>>=========================
>>>So, by your logic, or lack of really, every vegan liar here on
>>>usenet is the same person. Cool, I can call everyone the same
>>>name, oh wait, they already are, eh killer?
>>
>>
>> By your logic, I should call you a shit factory, and remind you
>> that
>> you are one ever yday, all the time. You always were one, and
>> always
>> will be. I will call you a shit factory ten times a day,
>> every day.
>========================
>As long as you understand that you are too, fool.

There's the rub: I am LESS of a killer than you are, and
I am LESS of a shit factory than you are too.

>
>
>>
>> And no, you don't have any logic, but I'm not even going to
>> waste
>> my time to teach you about it, because all you want is
>> attention.
>=================
>Far more than you'll ever be able to display, killer.


Why don't you go get yourself a baby bottle with
some baby formula to suck on then.

> wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:02:48 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>
>>
> wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Tue, 22 Nov 2005 22:34:48 GMT, "rick" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>=========================
>>>>So, by your logic, or lack of really, every vegan liar here
>>>>on
>>>>usenet is the same person. Cool, I can call everyone the
>>>>same
>>>>name, oh wait, they already are, eh killer?
>>>
>>>
>>> By your logic, I should call you a shit factory, and remind
>>> you
>>> that
>>> you are one ever yday, all the time. You always were one,
>>> and
>>> always
>>> will be. I will call you a shit factory ten times a day,
>>> every day.
>>========================
>>As long as you understand that you are too, fool.
>
> There's the rub: I am LESS of a killer than you are,
=========================
Then it should be easy for you to prove that, eh killer? And
besides, a killer is still a killer whether there are 100 dead
bodies or 101. So what does 'less a killer' really mean, eh
hypocrite?


and
> I am LESS of a shit factory than you are too.
=========================
Maybe, I suggest that the problem is that you are just backed up
so far it has affected your thinking...


>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> And no, you don't have any logic, but I'm not even going to
>>> waste
>>> my time to teach you about it, because all you want is
>>> attention.
>>=================
>>Far more than you'll ever be able to display, killer.
>
>
> Why don't you go get yourself a baby bottle with
> some baby formula to suck on then.
=========================
I see you cannot back up anything you claim, so you have to
resort to your little girl persona, eh fool?

stupidly boasted:
<...>
> There's the rub: I am LESS of a killer than you are

I admire your honesty, Tracy, but thinking of yourself as "less of a
killer" doesn't make you "more ethical." Scott Peterson is "less of a
killer" than Jeffrey Dahmer and John Wayne Gacy were, but it doesn't
make Peterson more respectable, more ethical, more admirable, or
anything but a killer.

You're in the same boat with everyone else when it comes to killing
animals. You're just as culpable for the deaths of mice, frogs, birds,
snakes, deer, and rabbits from your own diet as anyone else can be for
the chickens or cattle they eat.

> and I am LESS of a shit factory than you are too.

You're certainly entitled to your own opinion about such matters, but
your shit stinks just as much as anyone else's.

<snip retarded comment about baby bottles>

No pretense, I'm always learning in the area of nutrition and I like
that, regardless of sides.
Well all I can offer that strikes me poignantly about the typical
american diet from what I've 'investigated' outside of this NG since
awhile back is the how such a diet has an excessive ratio of Omega 6
fats:Omega 3 fats, which in effect demolishes the capabilities
performed by Omega 3 fats. I believe Usual touched on this not too
long ago also. Irregardless of where/how folks are consuming these
types of fats, they need to pay attention to correctly balancing this
intake. A ratio of 2:1 would be a good 'do-able' start.

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:20:29 GMT, "rick" > wrote:

>
>"Joe" > wrote in message
.. .
>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 04:31:12 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>
>>>Nope, I type it each time. It's the least I can do.
>>>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com -
>>>> Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
>>>> Usenet News==----
>>>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
>>>> World!
>>>> >100,000 Newsgroups
>>>> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
>>>> Encryption =---
>>>
>> Rick, I was just kidding,lol. I just imagined that happening :P
>====================
>Ok, no problem. Have you now dropped any pretense to being here
>to 'learn' anything about the issues discussed?
>I thought you might at least respond to the data and question
>about the 'typical' American diet. It's the one I'm sure you
>have run across while investigating the "other side" of the
>issue.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>
>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
>> Usenet News==----
>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>> 120,000+ Newsgroups
>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
>> Encryption =----
>



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"Joe" > wrote in message
...
>
> No pretense, I'm always learning in the area of nutrition and I
> like
> that, regardless of sides.
> Well all I can offer that strikes me poignantly about the
> typical
> american diet from what I've 'investigated' outside of this NG
> since
> awhile back is the how such a diet has an excessive ratio of
> Omega 6
> fats:Omega 3 fats, which in effect demolishes the capabilities
> performed by Omega 3 fats. I believe Usual touched on this not
> too
> long ago also. Irregardless of where/how folks are consuming
> these
> types of fats, they need to pay attention to correctly
> balancing this
> intake. A ratio of 2:1 would be a good 'do-able' start.
============================
Then you need to research grass-fed beef. It has omega 6-3
ratios as low .16:1. Modern agriculture has forced the consumer
into products that are full of vegetable oils that are
practically all omega 6 fats. So, vegans that claim that
avoiding meat will help that ratio are again either delusional,
or willfully ignorant.



>
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:20:29 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Joe" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 04:31:12 GMT, "rick" >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>>Nope, I type it each time. It's the least I can do.
>>>>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com -
>>>>> Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
>>>>> Usenet News==----
>>>>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
>>>>> World!
>>>>> >100,000 Newsgroups
>>>>> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
>>>>> Encryption =---
>>>>
>>> Rick, I was just kidding,lol. I just imagined that happening
>>> :P
>>====================
>>Ok, no problem. Have you now dropped any pretense to being
>>here
>>to 'learn' anything about the issues discussed?
>>I thought you might at least respond to the data and question
>>about the 'typical' American diet. It's the one I'm sure you
>>have run across while investigating the "other side" of the
>>issue.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com -
>>> Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
>>> Usenet News==----
>>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
>>> World!
>>> 120,000+ Newsgroups
>>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
>>> Encryption =----
>>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
> Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> >100,000 Newsgroups
> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
> Encryption =---

rick wrote:
> "Joe" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > No pretense, I'm always learning in the area of nutrition and I
> > like
> > that, regardless of sides.
> > Well all I can offer that strikes me poignantly about the
> > typical
> > american diet from what I've 'investigated' outside of this NG
> > since
> > awhile back is the how such a diet has an excessive ratio of
> > Omega 6
> > fats:Omega 3 fats, which in effect demolishes the capabilities
> > performed by Omega 3 fats. I believe Usual touched on this not
> > too
> > long ago also. Irregardless of where/how folks are consuming
> > these
> > types of fats, they need to pay attention to correctly
> > balancing this
> > intake. A ratio of 2:1 would be a good 'do-able' start.
> ============================
> Then you need to research grass-fed beef. It has omega 6-3
> ratios as low .16:1. Modern agriculture has forced the consumer
> into products that are full of vegetable oils that are
> practically all omega 6 fats. So, vegans that claim that
> avoiding meat will help that ratio are again either delusional,
> or willfully ignorant.
>



ricky, has anyone ever told you what happens to those fats when cooked?

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> rick wrote:
>> "Joe" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> >
>> > No pretense, I'm always learning in the area of nutrition
>> > and I
>> > like
>> > that, regardless of sides.
>> > Well all I can offer that strikes me poignantly about the
>> > typical
>> > american diet from what I've 'investigated' outside of this
>> > NG
>> > since
>> > awhile back is the how such a diet has an excessive ratio of
>> > Omega 6
>> > fats:Omega 3 fats, which in effect demolishes the
>> > capabilities
>> > performed by Omega 3 fats. I believe Usual touched on this
>> > not
>> > too
>> > long ago also. Irregardless of where/how folks are consuming
>> > these
>> > types of fats, they need to pay attention to correctly
>> > balancing this
>> > intake. A ratio of 2:1 would be a good 'do-able' start.
>> ============================
>> Then you need to research grass-fed beef. It has omega 6-3
>> ratios as low .16:1. Modern agriculture has forced the
>> consumer
>> into products that are full of vegetable oils that are
>> practically all omega 6 fats. So, vegans that claim that
>> avoiding meat will help that ratio are again either
>> delusional,
>> or willfully ignorant.
>>
>
>
>
> ricky, has anyone ever told you what happens to those fats when
> cooked?
=============================
Sure, it make the meat even more delisious. Too bad you're just
delusional, eh killer?



>

Actually I just meant my point in general of 'a typical american diet'
irregardless of folks eating meat or not. I don't deny [and never
stated - I do know such stats] some sources of meat and non-meat will
be high in Omeaga3:6 ratios compared to others.

On Thu, 24 Nov 2005 01:09:32 GMT, "rick" > wrote:

>
>"Joe" > wrote in message
.. .
>>
>> No pretense, I'm always learning in the area of nutrition and I
>> like
>> that, regardless of sides.
>> Well all I can offer that strikes me poignantly about the
>> typical
>> american diet from what I've 'investigated' outside of this NG
>> since
>> awhile back is the how such a diet has an excessive ratio of
>> Omega 6
>> fats:Omega 3 fats, which in effect demolishes the capabilities
>> performed by Omega 3 fats. I believe Usual touched on this not
>> too
>> long ago also. Irregardless of where/how folks are consuming
>> these
>> types of fats, they need to pay attention to correctly
>> balancing this
>> intake. A ratio of 2:1 would be a good 'do-able' start.
>============================
>Then you need to research grass-fed beef. It has omega 6-3
>ratios as low .16:1. Modern agriculture has forced the consumer
>into products that are full of vegetable oils that are
>practically all omega 6 fats. So, vegans that claim that
>avoiding meat will help that ratio are again either delusional,
>or willfully ignorant.
>
>
>
>>
>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 20:20:29 GMT, "rick" > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"Joe" > wrote in message
...
>>>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 04:31:12 GMT, "rick" >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Nope, I type it each time. It's the least I can do.
>>>>>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com -
>>>>>> Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
>>>>>> Usenet News==----
>>>>>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
>>>>>> World!
>>>>>> >100,000 Newsgroups
>>>>>> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
>>>>>> Encryption =---
>>>>>
>>>> Rick, I was just kidding,lol. I just imagined that happening
>>>> :P
>>>====================
>>>Ok, no problem. Have you now dropped any pretense to being
>>>here
>>>to 'learn' anything about the issues discussed?
>>>I thought you might at least respond to the data and question
>>>about the 'typical' American diet. It's the one I'm sure you
>>>have run across while investigating the "other side" of the
>>>issue.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com -
>>>> Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
>>>> Usenet News==----
>>>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the
>>>> World!
>>>> 120,000+ Newsgroups
>>>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
>>>> Encryption =----
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
>> Usenet News==----
>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>> >100,000 Newsgroups
>> ---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
>> Encryption =---
>



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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---= East/West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

rick wrote:
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
> >
> > rick wrote:
> >> "Joe" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> >
> >> > No pretense, I'm always learning in the area of nutrition
> >> > and I
> >> > like
> >> > that, regardless of sides.
> >> > Well all I can offer that strikes me poignantly about the
> >> > typical
> >> > american diet from what I've 'investigated' outside of this
> >> > NG
> >> > since
> >> > awhile back is the how such a diet has an excessive ratio of
> >> > Omega 6
> >> > fats:Omega 3 fats, which in effect demolishes the
> >> > capabilities
> >> > performed by Omega 3 fats. I believe Usual touched on this
> >> > not
> >> > too
> >> > long ago also. Irregardless of where/how folks are consuming
> >> > these
> >> > types of fats, they need to pay attention to correctly
> >> > balancing this
> >> > intake. A ratio of 2:1 would be a good 'do-able' start.
> >> ============================
> >> Then you need to research grass-fed beef. It has omega 6-3
> >> ratios as low .16:1. Modern agriculture has forced the
> >> consumer
> >> into products that are full of vegetable oils that are
> >> practically all omega 6 fats. So, vegans that claim that
> >> avoiding meat will help that ratio are again either
> >> delusional,
> >> or willfully ignorant.
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ricky, has anyone ever told you what happens to those fats when
> > cooked?
> =============================
> Sure, it make the meat even more delisious. Too bad you're just
> delusional, eh killer?
>



What becomes of the omegas when heated to high temperature ricky?

Care to tell us?;o)




>
>
> >

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> rick wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>> >
>> > rick wrote:
>> >> "Joe" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> >
>> >> > No pretense, I'm always learning in the area of nutrition
>> >> > and I
>> >> > like
>> >> > that, regardless of sides.
>> >> > Well all I can offer that strikes me poignantly about the
>> >> > typical
>> >> > american diet from what I've 'investigated' outside of
>> >> > this
>> >> > NG
>> >> > since
>> >> > awhile back is the how such a diet has an excessive ratio
>> >> > of
>> >> > Omega 6
>> >> > fats:Omega 3 fats, which in effect demolishes the
>> >> > capabilities
>> >> > performed by Omega 3 fats. I believe Usual touched on
>> >> > this
>> >> > not
>> >> > too
>> >> > long ago also. Irregardless of where/how folks are
>> >> > consuming
>> >> > these
>> >> > types of fats, they need to pay attention to correctly
>> >> > balancing this
>> >> > intake. A ratio of 2:1 would be a good 'do-able' start.
>> >> ============================
>> >> Then you need to research grass-fed beef. It has omega 6-3
>> >> ratios as low .16:1. Modern agriculture has forced the
>> >> consumer
>> >> into products that are full of vegetable oils that are
>> >> practically all omega 6 fats. So, vegans that claim that
>> >> avoiding meat will help that ratio are again either
>> >> delusional,
>> >> or willfully ignorant.
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ricky, has anyone ever told you what happens to those fats
>> > when
>> > cooked?
>> =============================
>> Sure, it make the meat even more delisious. Too bad you're
>> just
>> delusional, eh killer?
>>
>
>
>
> What becomes of the omegas when heated to high temperature
> ricky?
>
> Care to tell us?;o)
========================
They're part of the deliousnous of the meat, fool. Why not tell
us why more people get sick from veggies, eh killer?



>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> >
>

On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:27:12 GMT, usual suspect >
wrote:

wrote:
>> two different boobs IMHO.
>
>Speaking of boobs... how big are yours, soy boy?
>
> Male infants experience a testosterone surge during the first
> few months of life and produce androgens in amounts equal to
> those of adult men. So much testosterone at such a tender age is
> needed to program the body for puberty, the time when a male's
> sex organs should develop and he should begin to express male
> characteristics such as facial and pubic hair and a deep voice.
> If receptor sites intended for the hormone testosterone are
> occupied by soy estrogens, however, appropriate development may
> never take place. To date, most of the evidence damning soy
> formula can be found only in animal studies, because
> investigations in which humans' sex hormone levels are lowered
> experimentally cannot ethically be done. However, in the years
> since soy formula has been in the marketplace, parents and
> pediatricians have reported growing numbers of boys whose
> physical maturation is either delayed or does not occur at all.
> Breasts, underdeveloped gonads, undescended testicles
> (cryptorchidism), and steroid insufficiencies are increasingly
> common. Sperm counts are also falling.
> http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...soy_story.html

This too, related somwhat. Extensive tofu intake may be a problem also
in the long run regarding the developement of brain debilitating
diseases. So eat it conservatively.
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/articles/SSP1.htm

However, regarding men's 'bust size', I'm not convinced it's the soy
itself as the cause [and this doesn't mean I brush off all the
discovered/claimed dangers of soy]. Do we see the Far East male
population as a whole having a reputation for being 'booby' given the
amount of soy/tofu products in their diet?


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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"Joe" > wrote in message
news
>
>
> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:27:12 GMT, usual suspect
> >
> wrote:
>
wrote:
>>> two different boobs IMHO.
>>
>>Speaking of boobs... how big are yours, soy boy?
>>
>> Male infants experience a testosterone surge during the first
>> few months of life and produce androgens in amounts equal to
>> those of adult men. So much testosterone at such a tender age
>> is
>> needed to program the body for puberty, the time when a male's
>> sex organs should develop and he should begin to express male
>> characteristics such as facial and pubic hair and a deep
>> voice.
>> If receptor sites intended for the hormone testosterone are
>> occupied by soy estrogens, however, appropriate development
>> may
>> never take place. To date, most of the evidence damning soy
>> formula can be found only in animal studies, because
>> investigations in which humans' sex hormone levels are lowered
>> experimentally cannot ethically be done. However, in the years
>> since soy formula has been in the marketplace, parents and
>> pediatricians have reported growing numbers of boys whose
>> physical maturation is either delayed or does not occur at
>> all.
>> Breasts, underdeveloped gonads, undescended testicles
>> (cryptorchidism), and steroid insufficiencies are increasingly
>> common. Sperm counts are also falling.
>> http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...soy_story.html
>
> This too, related somwhat. Extensive tofu intake may be a
> problem also
> in the long run regarding the developement of brain
> debilitating
> diseases. So eat it conservatively.
> http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/articles/SSP1.htm
>
> However, regarding men's 'bust size', I'm not convinced it's
> the soy
> itself as the cause [and this doesn't mean I brush off all the
> discovered/claimed dangers of soy]. Do we see the Far East male
> population as a whole having a reputation for being 'booby'
> given the
> amount of soy/tofu products in their diet?
================
I think you'll find that it is not as much as you think. Far
less than what is pushed on us as additives to eveything.
It is not used as a staple food stuff there, and they do not
traditionally make fake foods out of it. The traditional soy
usage is from fermented soy, not the hexane solvent extraction
process used here.


>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
> Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
> 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
> Encryption =----

I was wondering about 'something' [heh, very loosely speaking] like
that being the difference. Thanks for the precise info Rick, something
for me to research on in depth.

On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 20:55:25 GMT, "rick" > wrote:

>
>"Joe" > wrote in message
>news
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 23 Nov 2005 17:27:12 GMT, usual suspect
>> >
>> wrote:
>>
wrote:
>>>> two different boobs IMHO.
>>>
>>>Speaking of boobs... how big are yours, soy boy?
>>>
>>> Male infants experience a testosterone surge during the first
>>> few months of life and produce androgens in amounts equal to
>>> those of adult men. So much testosterone at such a tender age
>>> is
>>> needed to program the body for puberty, the time when a male's
>>> sex organs should develop and he should begin to express male
>>> characteristics such as facial and pubic hair and a deep
>>> voice.
>>> If receptor sites intended for the hormone testosterone are
>>> occupied by soy estrogens, however, appropriate development
>>> may
>>> never take place. To date, most of the evidence damning soy
>>> formula can be found only in animal studies, because
>>> investigations in which humans' sex hormone levels are lowered
>>> experimentally cannot ethically be done. However, in the years
>>> since soy formula has been in the marketplace, parents and
>>> pediatricians have reported growing numbers of boys whose
>>> physical maturation is either delayed or does not occur at
>>> all.
>>> Breasts, underdeveloped gonads, undescended testicles
>>> (cryptorchidism), and steroid insufficiencies are increasingly
>>> common. Sperm counts are also falling.
>>> http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...soy_story.html
>>
>> This too, related somwhat. Extensive tofu intake may be a
>> problem also
>> in the long run regarding the developement of brain
>> debilitating
>> diseases. So eat it conservatively.
>> http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/articles/SSP1.htm
>>
>> However, regarding men's 'bust size', I'm not convinced it's
>> the soy
>> itself as the cause [and this doesn't mean I brush off all the
>> discovered/claimed dangers of soy]. Do we see the Far East male
>> population as a whole having a reputation for being 'booby'
>> given the
>> amount of soy/tofu products in their diet?
>================
>I think you'll find that it is not as much as you think. Far
>less than what is pushed on us as additives to eveything.
>It is not used as a staple food stuff there, and they do not
>traditionally make fake foods out of it. The traditional soy
>usage is from fermented soy, not the hexane solvent extraction
>process used here.
>
>
>>
>>
>> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure
>> Usenet News==----
>> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
>> 120,000+ Newsgroups
>> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via
>> Encryption =----
>


----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

Joe wrote:
> Actually I just meant my point in general of 'a typical american diet'
> irregardless

*REGARDLESS*.

I've seen you repeatedly make this error.

The -less suffix means WITHOUT; adding the ir- prefix also means
WITHOUT. The result of using both is a double negative -- "without
without regard." Just use "regardless."

Joe wrote:
>>Speaking of boobs... how big are yours, soy boy?
>>
>> Male infants experience a testosterone surge during the first
>> few months of life and produce androgens in amounts equal to
>> those of adult men. So much testosterone at such a tender age is
>> needed to program the body for puberty, the time when a male's
>> sex organs should develop and he should begin to express male
>> characteristics such as facial and pubic hair and a deep voice.
>> If receptor sites intended for the hormone testosterone are
>> occupied by soy estrogens, however, appropriate development may
>> never take place. To date, most of the evidence damning soy
>> formula can be found only in animal studies, because
>> investigations in which humans' sex hormone levels are lowered
>> experimentally cannot ethically be done. However, in the years
>> since soy formula has been in the marketplace, parents and
>> pediatricians have reported growing numbers of boys whose
>> physical maturation is either delayed or does not occur at all.
>> Breasts, underdeveloped gonads, undescended testicles
>> (cryptorchidism), and steroid insufficiencies are increasingly
>> common. Sperm counts are also falling.
>> http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...soy_story.html
>
> This too, related somwhat. Extensive tofu intake may be a problem also
> in the long run regarding the developement of brain debilitating
> diseases. So eat it conservatively.
> http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/articles/SSP1.htm

I don't find studies performed on isolated groups of elderly men very
convincing. There are too many variables, and age is a known risk factor
for dementia.

> However, regarding men's 'bust size', I'm not convinced it's the soy
> itself as the cause [and this doesn't mean I brush off all the
> discovered/claimed dangers of soy].

I'm more convinced of it than I am of the link between it and dementia.

> Do we see the Far East male
> population as a whole having a reputation for being 'booby' given the
> amount of soy/tofu products in their diet?

Westerners eat more soy per capita than Asians do; Asians are far more
likely to consume fermented soy products than unfermented. From your
link above:
...Dr. Larrian Gillespie, MD says, “I was recently in China and
saw how little soy is used in the daily diet of the Chinese. We
in America think we must consume the entire container of tofu in
one or two days, when that is enough for a whole week!”

A review of an anti-soy book notes that its author also found
substantially lower rates of soy consumption in Asia:
Daniel cites various sources that show consumption of soy in
Asia to be surprisingly low: the OECD estimates the per capita
consumption of soybeans in Japan averages a mere 18g per day,
while the famous China-Cornell-Oxford Study revealed an average
soy consumption of only four grams daily.
http://www.theomnivore.com/Whole_Soy_Story_BR.html

As to the possible effects of soy on children, especially infants,
consider the following:
A vegetarian diet could be responsible for genital defects in
baby boys, according to BBC-funded research carried out by
scientists in Bristol.

Researchers found that boys born to vegetarian mums are five
times more likely to suffer from hypospadias, a condition that
effects the male urethra....

They believe that a vegetarian diet alone is unlikely to cause
hypospadias. But they think vegetarians are probably eating more
of something is to blame - soya is a suspect.

According to the researchers, the defect may be caused by crop
pesticides or naturally occurring chemicals called
phytoestrogens.

Phytoestrogens are generally thought to be behind hormonal
imbalances leading to defects.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/286265.stm

Infants and small children don't need to be pumped full of hormones like
estrogens, whether they're from plant or chemical sources.

..... good pointer. Thanks
And here's me, someone who cringes and mutters 'geezus', whenever I
hear what must be the most the INfamous of all double-negatives;
'I didn't do nothing!"

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 17:21:35 GMT, usual suspect >
wrote:

>Joe wrote:
>> Actually I just meant my point in general of 'a typical american diet'
>> irregardless
>
>*REGARDLESS*.
>
>I've seen you repeatedly make this error.
>
>The -less suffix means WITHOUT; adding the ir- prefix also means
>WITHOUT. The result of using both is a double negative -- "without
>without regard." Just use "regardless."

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----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

On Sun, 04 Dec 2005 17:39:06 GMT, usual suspect >
wrote:

>Joe wrote:
>>>Speaking of boobs... how big are yours, soy boy?
>>>
>>> Male infants experience a testosterone surge during the first
>>> few months of life and produce androgens in amounts equal to
>>> those of adult men. So much testosterone at such a tender age is
>>> needed to program the body for puberty, the time when a male's
>>> sex organs should develop and he should begin to express male
>>> characteristics such as facial and pubic hair and a deep voice.
>>> If receptor sites intended for the hormone testosterone are
>>> occupied by soy estrogens, however, appropriate development may
>>> never take place. To date, most of the evidence damning soy
>>> formula can be found only in animal studies, because
>>> investigations in which humans' sex hormone levels are lowered
>>> experimentally cannot ethically be done. However, in the years
>>> since soy formula has been in the marketplace, parents and
>>> pediatricians have reported growing numbers of boys whose
>>> physical maturation is either delayed or does not occur at all.
>>> Breasts, underdeveloped gonads, undescended testicles
>>> (cryptorchidism), and steroid insufficiencies are increasingly
>>> common. Sperm counts are also falling.
>>> http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...soy_story.html
>>
>> This too, related somwhat. Extensive tofu intake may be a problem also
>> in the long run regarding the developement of brain debilitating
>> diseases. So eat it conservatively.
>> http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/articles/SSP1.htm
>
>I don't find studies performed on isolated groups of elderly men very
>convincing. There are too many variables, and age is a known risk factor
>for dementia.

Yes, but what drew me too it in particular was the length of time
involved.
>

>A review of an anti-soy book notes that its author also found
>substantially lower rates of soy consumption in Asia:
> Daniel cites various sources that show consumption of soy in
> Asia to be surprisingly low: the OECD estimates the per capita
> consumption of soybeans in Japan averages a mere 18g per day,
> while the famous China-Cornell-Oxford Study revealed an average
> soy consumption of only four grams daily.
> http://www.theomnivore.com/Whole_Soy_Story_BR.html
>
>As to the possible effects of soy on children, especially infants,
>consider the following:
> A vegetarian diet could be responsible for genital defects in
> baby boys, according to BBC-funded research carried out by
> scientists in Bristol.
>
> Researchers found that boys born to vegetarian mums are five
> times more likely to suffer from hypospadias, a condition that
> effects the male urethra....
>
> They believe that a vegetarian diet alone is unlikely to cause
> hypospadias. But they think vegetarians are probably eating more
> of something is to blame - soya is a suspect.
>
> According to the researchers, the defect may be caused by crop
> pesticides or naturally occurring chemicals called
> phytoestrogens.
>
> Phytoestrogens are generally thought to be behind hormonal
> imbalances leading to defects.
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/286265.stm
>
>Infants and small children don't need to be pumped full of hormones like
>estrogens, whether they're from plant or chemical sources.

Once again...., thanks for the excellent info / links provided !

Unfortunately I got Rick's prior answer half a day too late when upon
mentioning in a conversation the hazards related to eating soy
products, I got asked by a friend the very same question I placed in
this thread about soy comsumption differences East/West. But now I
know.

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Joe wrote:
>>>>Speaking of boobs... how big are yours, soy boy?
>>>>
>>>> Male infants experience a testosterone surge during the first
>>>> few months of life and produce androgens in amounts equal to
>>>> those of adult men. So much testosterone at such a tender age is
>>>> needed to program the body for puberty, the time when a male's
>>>> sex organs should develop and he should begin to express male
>>>> characteristics such as facial and pubic hair and a deep voice.
>>>> If receptor sites intended for the hormone testosterone are
>>>> occupied by soy estrogens, however, appropriate development may
>>>> never take place. To date, most of the evidence damning soy
>>>> formula can be found only in animal studies, because
>>>> investigations in which humans' sex hormone levels are lowered
>>>> experimentally cannot ethically be done. However, in the years
>>>> since soy formula has been in the marketplace, parents and
>>>> pediatricians have reported growing numbers of boys whose
>>>> physical maturation is either delayed or does not occur at all.
>>>> Breasts, underdeveloped gonads, undescended testicles
>>>> (cryptorchidism), and steroid insufficiencies are increasingly
>>>> common. Sperm counts are also falling.
>>>> http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...soy_story.html
>>>
>>>This too, related somwhat. Extensive tofu intake may be a problem also
>>>in the long run regarding the developement of brain debilitating
>>>diseases. So eat it conservatively.
>>>http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/articles/SSP1.htm
>>
>>I don't find studies performed on isolated groups of elderly men very
>>convincing. There are too many variables, and age is a known risk factor
>>for dementia.
>
> Yes, but what drew me too it in particular was the length of time
> involved.

Dementia usually takes a long time to develop; human gestation is only
nine months. I think the potential risks to infants and young children
are much more worthy of concern.

>>A review of an anti-soy book notes that its author also found
>>substantially lower rates of soy consumption in Asia:
>> Daniel cites various sources that show consumption of soy in
>> Asia to be surprisingly low: the OECD estimates the per capita
>> consumption of soybeans in Japan averages a mere 18g per day,
>> while the famous China-Cornell-Oxford Study revealed an average
>> soy consumption of only four grams daily.
>> http://www.theomnivore.com/Whole_Soy_Story_BR.html
>>
>>As to the possible effects of soy on children, especially infants,
>>consider the following:
>> A vegetarian diet could be responsible for genital defects in
>> baby boys, according to BBC-funded research carried out by
>> scientists in Bristol.
>>
>> Researchers found that boys born to vegetarian mums are five
>> times more likely to suffer from hypospadias, a condition that
>> effects the male urethra....
>>
>> They believe that a vegetarian diet alone is unlikely to cause
>> hypospadias. But they think vegetarians are probably eating more
>> of something is to blame - soya is a suspect.
>>
>> According to the researchers, the defect may be caused by crop
>> pesticides or naturally occurring chemicals called
>> phytoestrogens.
>>
>> Phytoestrogens are generally thought to be behind hormonal
>> imbalances leading to defects.
>> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/286265.stm
>>
>>Infants and small children don't need to be pumped full of hormones like
>>estrogens, whether they're from plant or chemical sources.
>
> Once again...., thanks for the excellent info / links provided !

You're welcome.

> Unfortunately I got Rick's prior answer half a day too late when upon
> mentioning in a conversation the hazards related to eating soy
> products, I got asked by a friend the very same question I placed in
> this thread about soy comsumption differences East/West. But now I
> know.

I think we need more studies on the issue to see how safe or deleterious
soy consumption is at various stages of life before assuming it's
entirely "good" or "bad." It may be perfectly fine and healthful in
moderation, just like everything else.