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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 15-11-2005, 02:56 AM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

For benefit of those who missed this show (or who turned it off early
because she felt picked on again), here's a brief summary. This show
would benefit anyone who's never had the misfortune of encountering a
vegan. It showed what vegans are like, what they think and believe, and
how they interact with normal people.

The vegan wife, Jackie, forces her entire household (including the cat)
to consume a raw vegan diet. Her actions extend beyond herself and her
household: she protests meat and hands out leaflets to strangers on the
street in an attempt to get them to live according to her peculiar
"principles." Part of those principles at home included getting rid of
their stove and many of their possessions; her home became increasingly
spartan as she sank deeper into her kooky vegan abyss.

The best way to explain her average day is that she focuses on the
things most out of her control and avoids dealing with the things most
within her control. Her husband Harold WANTS to eat meat but fears doing
so for the consequences he'd face from Jackie (note: he expressed no
fear of consequences to his health from it). Harold also overworks to
avoid coming home because Jackie is too busy navel-gazing, sun-gazing,
bitching, domineering, and protesting to clean house or do other mundane
things; he's adopted the role of housemaid by default. The whole family
were kind of drifting apart and becoming more dysfunctional, with Harold
and the daughter afraid to speak up about any of the changes (dietary,
anti-"decorating," etc.).

Jackie ends up trading places with a wife from a family who hunt out of
necessity. With her vegan psyche already very weak and fragile, Jackie
assesses her new situation by going through the fridge (filled with
meat) and the home (filled with taxidermy). As most vegans are, she's
condescending in sizing up her new family. To her credit, though, I
didn't think she was nearly as condescending as the vegan witch Barbara
from Fox's _Trading Spouses_ last year.

During one memorable segment, Jackie became emotional -- nearly
hysterical -- trying to explain how difficult it was for her to go to an
all raw diet. She offered some psychobabble comparing the whole
experience to alcoholism. To that bizarre melodrama, the other husband
(Ricky) apologized and said he didn't realize it would be so traumatic
for her.

As in the _Trading Spouses_ episodes on Fox in this vein last year, the
vegan wife felt compelled to show her new family some videos from animal
rights groups even after preaching to them about veganism for an entire
week. Jackie became an emotional wreck while watching them, even though
she said she's seen them many times before. Though the kids were briefly
stunned by such portrayals of farming (which are atypical), they didn't
exactly embrace the idea of eating nuts and fruits.

Ultimately, her attempts to convert the family in Kentucky failed. Since
the swap, they've added more vegetables to their meals but haven't given
up hunting or eating meat. Meanwhile, Jackie's kept the stove Bobbi (the
normal wife who ended up having to deal with milquetoast Harold) had
brought in and has even resumed eating some cooked foods. She admitted
maybe she was taking things too far. I'm sure her husband agrees she
*had* taken things too far, even if he lacks the courage to tell her how
****ed up he really thinks she is.

The moral of the story is that vegans DO take things too far. They try
to proselytize others, and they're usually very emotional and aggressive
about it. They think they're doing something virtuous and informative by
telling others not to eat meat, but vegans always end up coming across
as emotive, uninformed jackasses.

I also think vegans should go on more shows like this. First, it's very
entertaining. Second, it's illuminating for the wider population --
especially those in areas without or with very few vegans. Finally, it's
therapeutic in the sense that vegans on these shows seem to benefit from
interacting with *normal* people. For example, Jackie is again eating
cooked food. The vegan mother in the Fox show (Barbara) even ate meat
with the Cajun family.

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 15-11-2005, 03:30 AM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode



usual suspect wrote:

For benefit of those who missed this show (or who turned it off early
because she felt picked on again), here's a brief summary. This show
would benefit anyone who's never had the misfortune of encountering a
vegan. It showed what vegans are like, what they think and believe, and
how they interact with normal people.

The vegan wife, Jackie, forces her entire household (including the cat)
to consume a raw vegan diet. Her actions extend beyond herself and her
household: she protests meat and hands out leaflets to strangers on the
street in an attempt to get them to live according to her peculiar
"principles." Part of those principles at home included getting rid of
their stove and many of their possessions; her home became increasingly
spartan as she sank deeper into her kooky vegan abyss.

The best way to explain her average day is that she focuses on the
things most out of her control and avoids dealing with the things most
within her control. Her husband Harold WANTS to eat meat but fears doing
so for the consequences he'd face from Jackie (note: he expressed no
fear of consequences to his health from it). Harold also overworks to
avoid coming home because Jackie is too busy navel-gazing, sun-gazing,
bitching, domineering, and protesting to clean house or do other mundane
things; he's adopted the role of housemaid by default. The whole family
were kind of drifting apart and becoming more dysfunctional, with Harold
and the daughter afraid to speak up about any of the changes (dietary,
anti-"decorating," etc.).

Jackie ends up trading places with a wife from a family who hunt out of
necessity. With her vegan psyche already very weak and fragile, Jackie
assesses her new situation by going through the fridge (filled with
meat) and the home (filled with taxidermy). As most vegans are, she's
condescending in sizing up her new family. To her credit, though, I
didn't think she was nearly as condescending as the vegan witch Barbara
from Fox's _Trading Spouses_ last year.

During one memorable segment, Jackie became emotional -- nearly
hysterical -- trying to explain how difficult it was for her to go to an
all raw diet. She offered some psychobabble comparing the whole
experience to alcoholism. To that bizarre melodrama, the other husband
(Ricky) apologized and said he didn't realize it would be so traumatic
for her.

As in the _Trading Spouses_ episodes on Fox in this vein last year, the
vegan wife felt compelled to show her new family some videos from animal
rights groups even after preaching to them about veganism for an entire
week. Jackie became an emotional wreck while watching them, even though
she said she's seen them many times before. Though the kids were briefly
stunned by such portrayals of farming (which are atypical), they didn't
exactly embrace the idea of eating nuts and fruits.

Ultimately, her attempts to convert the family in Kentucky failed. Since
the swap, they've added more vegetables to their meals but haven't given
up hunting or eating meat. Meanwhile, Jackie's kept the stove Bobbi (the
normal wife who ended up having to deal with milquetoast Harold) had
brought in and has even resumed eating some cooked foods. She admitted
maybe she was taking things too far. I'm sure her husband agrees she
*had* taken things too far, even if he lacks the courage to tell her how
****ed up he really thinks she is.

The moral of the story is that vegans DO take things too far. They try
to proselytize others, and they're usually very emotional and aggressive
about it. They think they're doing something virtuous and informative by
telling others not to eat meat, but vegans always end up coming across
as emotive, uninformed jackasses.

I also think vegans should go on more shows like this. First, it's very
entertaining. Second, it's illuminating for the wider population --
especially those in areas without or with very few vegans. Finally, it's
therapeutic in the sense that vegans on these shows seem to benefit from
interacting with *normal* people. For example, Jackie is again eating
cooked food. The vegan mother in the Fox show (Barbara) even ate meat
with the Cajun family.


A typical US post, taking one example and making every VEG*N one
behavior. How prejudicial and bigoted. Obviously the producers sought
extremists to make the sure more interesting.
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 15-11-2005, 03:39 AM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

"usual suspect" wrote in message
...
For benefit of those who missed this show (or who turned it off early
because she felt picked on again), here's a brief summary. This show
would benefit anyone who's never had the misfortune of encountering a
vegan. It showed what vegans are like, what they think and believe, and
how they interact with normal people.

The vegan wife, Jackie, forces her entire household (including the cat)
to consume a raw vegan diet. Her actions extend beyond herself and her
household: she protests meat and hands out leaflets to strangers on the
street in an attempt to get them to live according to her peculiar
"principles." Part of those principles at home included getting rid of
their stove and many of their possessions; her home became increasingly
spartan as she sank deeper into her kooky vegan abyss.

The best way to explain her average day is that she focuses on the
things most out of her control and avoids dealing with the things most
within her control. Her husband Harold WANTS to eat meat but fears doing
so for the consequences he'd face from Jackie (note: he expressed no
fear of consequences to his health from it). Harold also overworks to
avoid coming home because Jackie is too busy navel-gazing, sun-gazing,
bitching, domineering, and protesting to clean house or do other mundane
things; he's adopted the role of housemaid by default. The whole family
were kind of drifting apart and becoming more dysfunctional, with Harold
and the daughter afraid to speak up about any of the changes (dietary,
anti-"decorating," etc.).

Jackie ends up trading places with a wife from a family who hunt out of
necessity. With her vegan psyche already very weak and fragile, Jackie
assesses her new situation by going through the fridge (filled with
meat) and the home (filled with taxidermy). As most vegans are, she's
condescending in sizing up her new family. To her credit, though, I
didn't think she was nearly as condescending as the vegan witch Barbara
from Fox's _Trading Spouses_ last year.

During one memorable segment, Jackie became emotional -- nearly
hysterical -- trying to explain how difficult it was for her to go to an
all raw diet. She offered some psychobabble comparing the whole
experience to alcoholism. To that bizarre melodrama, the other husband
(Ricky) apologized and said he didn't realize it would be so traumatic
for her.

As in the _Trading Spouses_ episodes on Fox in this vein last year, the
vegan wife felt compelled to show her new family some videos from animal
rights groups even after preaching to them about veganism for an entire
week. Jackie became an emotional wreck while watching them, even though
she said she's seen them many times before. Though the kids were briefly
stunned by such portrayals of farming (which are atypical), they didn't
exactly embrace the idea of eating nuts and fruits.

Ultimately, her attempts to convert the family in Kentucky failed. Since
the swap, they've added more vegetables to their meals but haven't given
up hunting or eating meat. Meanwhile, Jackie's kept the stove Bobbi (the
normal wife who ended up having to deal with milquetoast Harold) had
brought in and has even resumed eating some cooked foods. She admitted
maybe she was taking things too far. I'm sure her husband agrees she
*had* taken things too far, even if he lacks the courage to tell her how
****ed up he really thinks she is.

The moral of the story is that vegans DO take things too far. They try
to proselytize others, and they're usually very emotional and aggressive
about it. They think they're doing something virtuous and informative by
telling others not to eat meat, but vegans always end up coming across
as emotive, uninformed jackasses.

I also think vegans should go on more shows like this. First, it's very
entertaining. Second, it's illuminating for the wider population --
especially those in areas without or with very few vegans. Finally, it's
therapeutic in the sense that vegans on these shows seem to benefit from
interacting with *normal* people. For example, Jackie is again eating
cooked food. The vegan mother in the Fox show (Barbara) even ate meat
with the Cajun family.


You are assuming all vegans are like
each other. It's like watching Jerry
Springer and coming to the conclusion
that all couples have bizarre problems.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 15-11-2005, 07:42 AM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

"Beach Runner" wrote

A typical US post, taking one example and making every VEG*N one behavior.
How prejudicial and bigoted.


The family had to be typical of raw-food vegan/ ARAs.

Obviously the producers sought extremists to make the sure more
interesting.


The other family were extreme also, hunting every day and eating mostly
meat.

The vegan family shopped at a local market, imported nuts, fruit,
vegetables, seeds, etc.. while the hunters got most of their food from the
local woods. The issue of cds never came up, but I am quite sure that once
the hidden collateral cost in animal death and suffering was tallied up, the
hunter family would fare quite well by comparison.


  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 15-11-2005, 02:06 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
RobDar
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

First...I am not sure it is fair to generalize the vegan lifestyle and
assume they are all like the goof pot on the show...
I cannot say that I have known more than a handful of vegans...but none of
them were as...interesting...as the lady on wife swap.
Our conversation during the show?....Where the hell do they find all these
people? Nearly everyone on these shows has some serious quirk or
another...I guess living my " average joe american" life in my hard working
neighborhood on a blue collar street...I have lost touch with just how many
off kilter folks there are around me!
There is a part of me that feels sorry for people like her. There is
something sorely lacking in their lives. Some part of themselves that is
empty and out of balance....anyone with so strict a mind set or activist
personality, and I mean those people who have become so engrossed that they
have lost the ability/willingness to understand and/or associate with people
outside their idealology, has something missing in themselves. People look
at activists and see dedication and strength of conviction...I see weakness.
I deal with activists and "want to be" activists everyday and you cannot
talk to even one of them. If offered a descenting opinion they react with
emotional outcry...why?...because they nothing else to offer. They are the
perpetual victims. People who, if they do not have some cause or issue to
rally around and cry about, have very little else about themselves to make
them feel alive or valued.




"usual suspect" wrote in message
...
For benefit of those who missed this show (or who turned it off early
because she felt picked on again), here's a brief summary. This show would
benefit anyone who's never had the misfortune of encountering a vegan. It
showed what vegans are like, what they think and believe, and how they
interact with normal people.

The vegan wife, Jackie, forces her entire household (including the cat) to
consume a raw vegan diet. Her actions extend beyond herself and her
household: she protests meat and hands out leaflets to strangers on the
street in an attempt to get them to live according to her peculiar
"principles." Part of those principles at home included getting rid of
their stove and many of their possessions; her home became increasingly
spartan as she sank deeper into her kooky vegan abyss.

The best way to explain her average day is that she focuses on the things
most out of her control and avoids dealing with the things most within her
control. Her husband Harold WANTS to eat meat but fears doing so for the
consequences he'd face from Jackie (note: he expressed no fear of
consequences to his health from it). Harold also overworks to avoid coming
home because Jackie is too busy navel-gazing, sun-gazing, bitching,
domineering, and protesting to clean house or do other mundane things;
he's adopted the role of housemaid by default. The whole family were kind
of drifting apart and becoming more dysfunctional, with Harold and the
daughter afraid to speak up about any of the changes (dietary,
anti-"decorating," etc.).

Jackie ends up trading places with a wife from a family who hunt out of
necessity. With her vegan psyche already very weak and fragile, Jackie
assesses her new situation by going through the fridge (filled with meat)
and the home (filled with taxidermy). As most vegans are, she's
condescending in sizing up her new family. To her credit, though, I didn't
think she was nearly as condescending as the vegan witch Barbara from
Fox's _Trading Spouses_ last year.

During one memorable segment, Jackie became emotional -- nearly
hysterical -- trying to explain how difficult it was for her to go to an
all raw diet. She offered some psychobabble comparing the whole experience
to alcoholism. To that bizarre melodrama, the other husband (Ricky)
apologized and said he didn't realize it would be so traumatic for her.

As in the _Trading Spouses_ episodes on Fox in this vein last year, the
vegan wife felt compelled to show her new family some videos from animal
rights groups even after preaching to them about veganism for an entire
week. Jackie became an emotional wreck while watching them, even though
she said she's seen them many times before. Though the kids were briefly
stunned by such portrayals of farming (which are atypical), they didn't
exactly embrace the idea of eating nuts and fruits.

Ultimately, her attempts to convert the family in Kentucky failed. Since
the swap, they've added more vegetables to their meals but haven't given
up hunting or eating meat. Meanwhile, Jackie's kept the stove Bobbi (the
normal wife who ended up having to deal with milquetoast Harold) had
brought in and has even resumed eating some cooked foods. She admitted
maybe she was taking things too far. I'm sure her husband agrees she *had*
taken things too far, even if he lacks the courage to tell her how ****ed
up he really thinks she is.

The moral of the story is that vegans DO take things too far. They try to
proselytize others, and they're usually very emotional and aggressive
about it. They think they're doing something virtuous and informative by
telling others not to eat meat, but vegans always end up coming across as
emotive, uninformed jackasses.

I also think vegans should go on more shows like this. First, it's very
entertaining. Second, it's illuminating for the wider population --
especially those in areas without or with very few vegans. Finally, it's
therapeutic in the sense that vegans on these shows seem to benefit from
interacting with *normal* people. For example, Jackie is again eating
cooked food. The vegan mother in the Fox show (Barbara) even ate meat with
the Cajun family.





  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 15-11-2005, 03:27 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
C. James Strutz
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode


"RobDar" wrote in message
...

First...I am not sure it is fair to generalize the vegan lifestyle and
assume they are all like the goof pot on the show...


You're right, it's unfair to make wide generalizations about any group of
people.

I cannot say that I have known more than a handful of vegans...but none of
them were as...interesting...as the lady on wife swap.
Our conversation during the show?....Where the hell do they find all these
people? Nearly everyone on these shows has some serious quirk or
another...I guess living my " average joe american" life in my hard
working neighborhood on a blue collar street...I have lost touch with just
how many off kilter folks there are around me!


You're right again. It's a reality show and producers screen people and put
them in circumstances that provide the best entertainment value. It's silly
for anyone to believe that characters on some reality show are
representitive of, well, reality....

There is a part of me that feels sorry for people like her. There is
something sorely lacking in their lives. Some part of themselves that is
empty and out of balance....anyone with so strict a mind set or activist
personality, and I mean those people who have become so engrossed that
they have lost the ability/willingness to understand and/or associate with
people outside their idealology, has something missing in themselves.
People look at activists and see dedication and strength of conviction...I
see weakness. I deal with activists and "want to be" activists everyday
and you cannot talk to even one of them. If offered a descenting opinion
they react with emotional outcry...why?...because they nothing else to
offer. They are the perpetual victims. People who, if they do not have
some cause or issue to rally around and cry about, have very little else
about themselves to make them feel alive or valued.


Strength and weakness is a dichotomy - there cannot be one without the
other. Don't pity people like the woman in the reality show. She obviously
feels as though her ideology is a strength, not a weakness. It's not that
they're "perpetual victims", rather their focus is so narrow that there's
very little overlap with mainstream thinking. That's okay as long as it
doesn't hurt anyone or anything.


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2005, 04:19 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
RobDar
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

issue of cd's? not sure I am following....
"Dutch" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
"Beach Runner" wrote

A typical US post, taking one example and making every VEG*N one
behavior. How prejudicial and bigoted.


The family had to be typical of raw-food vegan/ ARAs.

Obviously the producers sought extremists to make the sure more
interesting.


The other family were extreme also, hunting every day and eating mostly
meat.

The vegan family shopped at a local market, imported nuts, fruit,
vegetables, seeds, etc.. while the hunters got most of their food from the
local woods. The issue of cds never came up, but I am quite sure that once
the hidden collateral cost in animal death and suffering was tallied up,
the hunter family would fare quite well by comparison.




  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2005, 04:20 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
RobDar
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

Does anyone still watch Jerry Springer?

There are a fair number of folks who think that crap is real...and the way
it is!

"Scented Nectar" wrote in message
.. .
"usual suspect" wrote in message
...
For benefit of those who missed this show (or who turned it off early
because she felt picked on again), here's a brief summary. This show
would benefit anyone who's never had the misfortune of encountering a
vegan. It showed what vegans are like, what they think and believe, and
how they interact with normal people.

The vegan wife, Jackie, forces her entire household (including the cat)
to consume a raw vegan diet. Her actions extend beyond herself and her
household: she protests meat and hands out leaflets to strangers on the
street in an attempt to get them to live according to her peculiar
"principles." Part of those principles at home included getting rid of
their stove and many of their possessions; her home became increasingly
spartan as she sank deeper into her kooky vegan abyss.

The best way to explain her average day is that she focuses on the
things most out of her control and avoids dealing with the things most
within her control. Her husband Harold WANTS to eat meat but fears doing
so for the consequences he'd face from Jackie (note: he expressed no
fear of consequences to his health from it). Harold also overworks to
avoid coming home because Jackie is too busy navel-gazing, sun-gazing,
bitching, domineering, and protesting to clean house or do other mundane
things; he's adopted the role of housemaid by default. The whole family
were kind of drifting apart and becoming more dysfunctional, with Harold
and the daughter afraid to speak up about any of the changes (dietary,
anti-"decorating," etc.).

Jackie ends up trading places with a wife from a family who hunt out of
necessity. With her vegan psyche already very weak and fragile, Jackie
assesses her new situation by going through the fridge (filled with
meat) and the home (filled with taxidermy). As most vegans are, she's
condescending in sizing up her new family. To her credit, though, I
didn't think she was nearly as condescending as the vegan witch Barbara
from Fox's _Trading Spouses_ last year.

During one memorable segment, Jackie became emotional -- nearly
hysterical -- trying to explain how difficult it was for her to go to an
all raw diet. She offered some psychobabble comparing the whole
experience to alcoholism. To that bizarre melodrama, the other husband
(Ricky) apologized and said he didn't realize it would be so traumatic
for her.

As in the _Trading Spouses_ episodes on Fox in this vein last year, the
vegan wife felt compelled to show her new family some videos from animal
rights groups even after preaching to them about veganism for an entire
week. Jackie became an emotional wreck while watching them, even though
she said she's seen them many times before. Though the kids were briefly
stunned by such portrayals of farming (which are atypical), they didn't
exactly embrace the idea of eating nuts and fruits.

Ultimately, her attempts to convert the family in Kentucky failed. Since
the swap, they've added more vegetables to their meals but haven't given
up hunting or eating meat. Meanwhile, Jackie's kept the stove Bobbi (the
normal wife who ended up having to deal with milquetoast Harold) had
brought in and has even resumed eating some cooked foods. She admitted
maybe she was taking things too far. I'm sure her husband agrees she
*had* taken things too far, even if he lacks the courage to tell her how
****ed up he really thinks she is.

The moral of the story is that vegans DO take things too far. They try
to proselytize others, and they're usually very emotional and aggressive
about it. They think they're doing something virtuous and informative by
telling others not to eat meat, but vegans always end up coming across
as emotive, uninformed jackasses.

I also think vegans should go on more shows like this. First, it's very
entertaining. Second, it's illuminating for the wider population --
especially those in areas without or with very few vegans. Finally, it's
therapeutic in the sense that vegans on these shows seem to benefit from
interacting with *normal* people. For example, Jackie is again eating
cooked food. The vegan mother in the Fox show (Barbara) even ate meat
with the Cajun family.


You are assuming all vegans are like
each other. It's like watching Jerry
Springer and coming to the conclusion
that all couples have bizarre problems.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/




  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2005, 04:59 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
RobDar
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

You are right C.J....the question is...do they hurt anyone?
I do not know. I think that the effect extremist positions have on public
opinion can be damaging...it can be helpful as well...I guess the question
of whether they hurt anyone can only be answered with "It depends on what
kind of damage you are looking for". I think that many of the extremist
positions have some unintended social consequences. I think these positions
sometimes allow questionable laws and questionable practices to enter the
mainstream as a kind of "tolerable compromise" or a "lesser of two evils"
kind of thing.

and you are right...all of this is okay...but as Mark Twain said...the
weakest of all things is a virtue that has not been tested in fire. I find
that the narrow focus of many of the extremists I come across is narrow for
just this reason...their virtue will not withstand fire...or even discussion
of dissenting opinion. I find these people very troubling...

"C. James Strutz" wrote in message
...

"RobDar" wrote in message
...

First...I am not sure it is fair to generalize the vegan lifestyle and
assume they are all like the goof pot on the show...


You're right, it's unfair to make wide generalizations about any group of
people.

I cannot say that I have known more than a handful of vegans...but none
of them were as...interesting...as the lady on wife swap.
Our conversation during the show?....Where the hell do they find all
these people? Nearly everyone on these shows has some serious quirk or
another...I guess living my " average joe american" life in my hard
working neighborhood on a blue collar street...I have lost touch with
just how many off kilter folks there are around me!


You're right again. It's a reality show and producers screen people and
put them in circumstances that provide the best entertainment value. It's
silly for anyone to believe that characters on some reality show are
representitive of, well, reality....

There is a part of me that feels sorry for people like her. There is
something sorely lacking in their lives. Some part of themselves that is
empty and out of balance....anyone with so strict a mind set or activist
personality, and I mean those people who have become so engrossed that
they have lost the ability/willingness to understand and/or associate
with people outside their idealology, has something missing in
themselves. People look at activists and see dedication and strength of
conviction...I see weakness. I deal with activists and "want to be"
activists everyday and you cannot talk to even one of them. If offered a
descenting opinion they react with emotional outcry...why?...because they
nothing else to offer. They are the perpetual victims. People who, if
they do not have some cause or issue to rally around and cry about, have
very little else about themselves to make them feel alive or valued.


Strength and weakness is a dichotomy - there cannot be one without the
other. Don't pity people like the woman in the reality show. She obviously
feels as though her ideology is a strength, not a weakness. It's not that
they're "perpetual victims", rather their focus is so narrow that there's
very little overlap with mainstream thinking. That's okay as long as it
doesn't hurt anyone or anything.



  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2005, 05:52 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

Beach Runner wrote:
For benefit of those who missed this show (or who turned it off early
because she felt picked on again), here's a brief summary. This show
would benefit anyone who's never had the misfortune of encountering a
vegan. It showed what vegans are like, what they think and believe,
and how they interact with normal people.

The vegan wife, Jackie, forces her entire household (including the
cat) to consume a raw vegan diet. Her actions extend beyond herself
and her household: she protests meat and hands out leaflets to
strangers on the street in an attempt to get them to live according to
her peculiar "principles." Part of those principles at home included
getting rid of their stove and many of their possessions; her home
became increasingly spartan as she sank deeper into her kooky vegan
abyss.

The best way to explain her average day is that she focuses on the
things most out of her control and avoids dealing with the things most
within her control. Her husband Harold WANTS to eat meat but fears
doing so for the consequences he'd face from Jackie (note: he
expressed no fear of consequences to his health from it). Harold also
overworks to avoid coming home because Jackie is too busy
navel-gazing, sun-gazing, bitching, domineering, and protesting to
clean house or do other mundane things; he's adopted the role of
housemaid by default. The whole family were kind of drifting apart and
becoming more dysfunctional, with Harold and the daughter afraid to
speak up about any of the changes (dietary, anti-"decorating," etc.).

Jackie ends up trading places with a wife from a family who hunt out
of necessity. With her vegan psyche already very weak and fragile,
Jackie assesses her new situation by going through the fridge (filled
with meat) and the home (filled with taxidermy). As most vegans are,
she's condescending in sizing up her new family. To her credit,
though, I didn't think she was nearly as condescending as the vegan
witch Barbara from Fox's _Trading Spouses_ last year.

During one memorable segment, Jackie became emotional -- nearly
hysterical -- trying to explain how difficult it was for her to go to
an all raw diet. She offered some psychobabble comparing the whole
experience to alcoholism. To that bizarre melodrama, the other husband
(Ricky) apologized and said he didn't realize it would be so traumatic
for her.

As in the _Trading Spouses_ episodes on Fox in this vein last year,
the vegan wife felt compelled to show her new family some videos from
animal rights groups even after preaching to them about veganism for
an entire week. Jackie became an emotional wreck while watching them,
even though she said she's seen them many times before. Though the
kids were briefly stunned by such portrayals of farming (which are
atypical), they didn't exactly embrace the idea of eating nuts and
fruits.

Ultimately, her attempts to convert the family in Kentucky failed.
Since the swap, they've added more vegetables to their meals but
haven't given up hunting or eating meat. Meanwhile, Jackie's kept the
stove Bobbi (the normal wife who ended up having to deal with
milquetoast Harold) had brought in and has even resumed eating some
cooked foods. She admitted maybe she was taking things too far. I'm
sure her husband agrees she *had* taken things too far, even if he
lacks the courage to tell her how ****ed up he really thinks she is.

The moral of the story is that vegans DO take things too far. They try
to proselytize others, and they're usually very emotional and
aggressive about it. They think they're doing something virtuous and
informative by telling others not to eat meat, but vegans always end
up coming across as emotive, uninformed jackasses.

I also think vegans should go on more shows like this. First, it's
very entertaining. Second, it's illuminating for the wider population
-- especially those in areas without or with very few vegans. Finally,
it's therapeutic in the sense that vegans on these shows seem to
benefit from interacting with *normal* people. For example, Jackie is
again eating cooked food. The vegan mother in the Fox show (Barbara)
even ate meat with the Cajun family.



A typical US post, taking one example and making every VEG*N one
behavior.


The Koplin family from Arizona are much more typical of vegans,
especially raw faddists, than they're atypical.

How prejudicial and bigoted.


Vegans ARE prejudiced bigots.

Obviously the producers sought
extremists to make the sure more interesting.


Irrelevant. I pointed out that the inclusion of nuts makes shows like
this more interesting (see my first point in the last paragraph, dumb
ass). Vegans are kooks. They're extremists. They don't mesh well with
normal people. That's why they tend to make shows like this interesting
and amusing.


  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2005, 06:10 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

Skanky whined:
For benefit of those who missed this show (or who turned it off early
because she felt picked on again), here's a brief summary. This show
would benefit anyone who's never had the misfortune of encountering a
vegan. It showed what vegans are like, what they think and believe, and
how they interact with normal people.

The vegan wife, Jackie, forces her entire household (including the cat)
to consume a raw vegan diet. Her actions extend beyond herself and her
household: she protests meat and hands out leaflets to strangers on the
street in an attempt to get them to live according to her peculiar
"principles." Part of those principles at home included getting rid of
their stove and many of their possessions; her home became increasingly
spartan as she sank deeper into her kooky vegan abyss.

The best way to explain her average day is that she focuses on the
things most out of her control and avoids dealing with the things most
within her control. Her husband Harold WANTS to eat meat but fears doing
so for the consequences he'd face from Jackie (note: he expressed no
fear of consequences to his health from it). Harold also overworks to
avoid coming home because Jackie is too busy navel-gazing, sun-gazing,
bitching, domineering, and protesting to clean house or do other mundane
things; he's adopted the role of housemaid by default. The whole family
were kind of drifting apart and becoming more dysfunctional, with Harold
and the daughter afraid to speak up about any of the changes (dietary,
anti-"decorating," etc.).

Jackie ends up trading places with a wife from a family who hunt out of
necessity. With her vegan psyche already very weak and fragile, Jackie
assesses her new situation by going through the fridge (filled with
meat) and the home (filled with taxidermy). As most vegans are, she's
condescending in sizing up her new family. To her credit, though, I
didn't think she was nearly as condescending as the vegan witch Barbara
from Fox's _Trading Spouses_ last year.

During one memorable segment, Jackie became emotional -- nearly
hysterical -- trying to explain how difficult it was for her to go to an
all raw diet. She offered some psychobabble comparing the whole
experience to alcoholism. To that bizarre melodrama, the other husband
(Ricky) apologized and said he didn't realize it would be so traumatic
for her.

As in the _Trading Spouses_ episodes on Fox in this vein last year, the
vegan wife felt compelled to show her new family some videos from animal
rights groups even after preaching to them about veganism for an entire
week. Jackie became an emotional wreck while watching them, even though
she said she's seen them many times before. Though the kids were briefly
stunned by such portrayals of farming (which are atypical), they didn't
exactly embrace the idea of eating nuts and fruits.

Ultimately, her attempts to convert the family in Kentucky failed. Since
the swap, they've added more vegetables to their meals but haven't given
up hunting or eating meat. Meanwhile, Jackie's kept the stove Bobbi (the
normal wife who ended up having to deal with milquetoast Harold) had
brought in and has even resumed eating some cooked foods. She admitted
maybe she was taking things too far. I'm sure her husband agrees she
*had* taken things too far, even if he lacks the courage to tell her how
****ed up he really thinks she is.

The moral of the story is that vegans DO take things too far. They try
to proselytize others, and they're usually very emotional and aggressive
about it. They think they're doing something virtuous and informative by
telling others not to eat meat, but vegans always end up coming across
as emotive, uninformed jackasses.

I also think vegans should go on more shows like this. First, it's very
entertaining. Second, it's illuminating for the wider population --
especially those in areas without or with very few vegans. Finally, it's
therapeutic in the sense that vegans on these shows seem to benefit from
interacting with *normal* people. For example, Jackie is again eating
cooked food. The vegan mother in the Fox show (Barbara) even ate meat
with the Cajun family.


You are assuming all vegans are like
each other.


They are, generally speaking. Vegans are conformists; they conform to a
doctrinaire, sanctimonious position that they have to save the world. I
should've pointed out above that Jackie's focus on the things most out
of her control and avoids dealing with the things most within her
control is typical of vegans. Vegans tend to be emotionally immature
(e.g., crying through repeated showings of AR videos) and obsess about
things they cannot control; they let the things they CAN control go
downhill -- whether it's a career, family, pet, etc. (And Jackie's case
shows how far and quickly someone can sink into the abyss. Her focus was
on things completely outside her control -- saving the animals. She
didn't work, she didn't tend to her home or family, she didn't tend well
to herself. Sound familiar, carless agoraphobic pothead Skanky?)

As an extremist and absolutist pseudo-philosophy, veganism is both
dogmatic and monolithic. There's not much difference philosophically,
politically, tempermentally between vegans. There are only degrees
separating the hard-core out-of-touch zealots and those who admire them
(including wannabes).

It's like watching Jerry
Springer and coming to the conclusion
that all couples have bizarre problems.


The only similarity is that both vegans and the typical Springer guest
are dysfunctional.
  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2005, 06:37 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

"usual suspect" wrote in message
...
Skanky whined:
For benefit of those who missed this show (or who turned it off early
because she felt picked on again), here's a brief summary. This show
would benefit anyone who's never had the misfortune of encountering a
vegan. It showed what vegans are like, what they think and believe, and
how they interact with normal people.

The vegan wife, Jackie, forces her entire household (including the cat)
to consume a raw vegan diet. Her actions extend beyond herself and her
household: she protests meat and hands out leaflets to strangers on the
street in an attempt to get them to live according to her peculiar
"principles." Part of those principles at home included getting rid of
their stove and many of their possessions; her home became increasingly
spartan as she sank deeper into her kooky vegan abyss.

The best way to explain her average day is that she focuses on the
things most out of her control and avoids dealing with the things most
within her control. Her husband Harold WANTS to eat meat but fears doing
so for the consequences he'd face from Jackie (note: he expressed no
fear of consequences to his health from it). Harold also overworks to
avoid coming home because Jackie is too busy navel-gazing, sun-gazing,
bitching, domineering, and protesting to clean house or do other mundane
things; he's adopted the role of housemaid by default. The whole family
were kind of drifting apart and becoming more dysfunctional, with Harold
and the daughter afraid to speak up about any of the changes (dietary,
anti-"decorating," etc.).

Jackie ends up trading places with a wife from a family who hunt out of
necessity. With her vegan psyche already very weak and fragile, Jackie
assesses her new situation by going through the fridge (filled with
meat) and the home (filled with taxidermy). As most vegans are, she's
condescending in sizing up her new family. To her credit, though, I
didn't think she was nearly as condescending as the vegan witch Barbara
from Fox's _Trading Spouses_ last year.

During one memorable segment, Jackie became emotional -- nearly
hysterical -- trying to explain how difficult it was for her to go to an
all raw diet. She offered some psychobabble comparing the whole
experience to alcoholism. To that bizarre melodrama, the other husband
(Ricky) apologized and said he didn't realize it would be so traumatic
for her.

As in the _Trading Spouses_ episodes on Fox in this vein last year, the
vegan wife felt compelled to show her new family some videos from animal
rights groups even after preaching to them about veganism for an entire
week. Jackie became an emotional wreck while watching them, even though
she said she's seen them many times before. Though the kids were briefly
stunned by such portrayals of farming (which are atypical), they didn't
exactly embrace the idea of eating nuts and fruits.

Ultimately, her attempts to convert the family in Kentucky failed. Since
the swap, they've added more vegetables to their meals but haven't given
up hunting or eating meat. Meanwhile, Jackie's kept the stove Bobbi (the
normal wife who ended up having to deal with milquetoast Harold) had
brought in and has even resumed eating some cooked foods. She admitted
maybe she was taking things too far. I'm sure her husband agrees she
*had* taken things too far, even if he lacks the courage to tell her how
****ed up he really thinks she is.

The moral of the story is that vegans DO take things too far. They try
to proselytize others, and they're usually very emotional and aggressive
about it. They think they're doing something virtuous and informative by
telling others not to eat meat, but vegans always end up coming across
as emotive, uninformed jackasses.

I also think vegans should go on more shows like this. First, it's very
entertaining. Second, it's illuminating for the wider population --
especially those in areas without or with very few vegans. Finally, it's
therapeutic in the sense that vegans on these shows seem to benefit from
interacting with *normal* people. For example, Jackie is again eating
cooked food. The vegan mother in the Fox show (Barbara) even ate meat
with the Cajun family.


You are assuming all vegans are like
each other.


They are, generally speaking. Vegans are conformists; they conform to a
doctrinaire, sanctimonious position that they have to save the world. I
should've pointed out above that Jackie's focus on the things most out
of her control and avoids dealing with the things most within her
control is typical of vegans. Vegans tend to be emotionally immature
(e.g., crying through repeated showings of AR videos) and obsess about
things they cannot control; they let the things they CAN control go
downhill -- whether it's a career, family, pet, etc. (And Jackie's case
shows how far and quickly someone can sink into the abyss. Her focus was
on things completely outside her control -- saving the animals. She
didn't work, she didn't tend to her home or family, she didn't tend well
to herself. Sound familiar, carless agoraphobic pothead Skanky?)


What the **** are you talking
about? My career, family, pets
have not gone downhill. I tend
to myself well. It's interesting
that you want to see all vegetarians
as being as nuts as the Springeresque
one on tv. Please cite the study that
says dysfunction is typical of vegans.
You can't because there is none.

As an extremist and absolutist pseudo-philosophy, veganism is both
dogmatic and monolithic. There's not much difference philosophically,
politically, tempermentally between vegans. There are only degrees
separating the hard-core out-of-touch zealots and those who admire them
(including wannabes).


You sure do have a hate-on for
vegans. Funny considering you
are one. LOL

It's like watching Jerry
Springer and coming to the conclusion
that all couples have bizarre problems.


The only similarity is that both vegans and the typical Springer guest
are dysfunctional.


You must be basing this on yourself
from when you identified as a vegan.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/


  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2005, 06:44 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

Scented Nectar wrote:
"usual suspect" wrote in message
...

Skanky whined:

For benefit of those who missed this show (or who turned it off early
because she felt picked on again), here's a brief summary. This show
would benefit anyone who's never had the misfortune of encountering a
vegan. It showed what vegans are like, what they think and believe, and
how they interact with normal people.

The vegan wife, Jackie, forces her entire household (including the cat)
to consume a raw vegan diet. Her actions extend beyond herself and her
household: she protests meat and hands out leaflets to strangers on the
street in an attempt to get them to live according to her peculiar
"principles." Part of those principles at home included getting rid of
their stove and many of their possessions; her home became increasingly
spartan as she sank deeper into her kooky vegan abyss.

The best way to explain her average day is that she focuses on the
things most out of her control and avoids dealing with the things most
within her control. Her husband Harold WANTS to eat meat but fears doing
so for the consequences he'd face from Jackie (note: he expressed no
fear of consequences to his health from it). Harold also overworks to
avoid coming home because Jackie is too busy navel-gazing, sun-gazing,
bitching, domineering, and protesting to clean house or do other mundane
things; he's adopted the role of housemaid by default. The whole family
were kind of drifting apart and becoming more dysfunctional, with Harold
and the daughter afraid to speak up about any of the changes (dietary,
anti-"decorating," etc.).

Jackie ends up trading places with a wife from a family who hunt out of
necessity. With her vegan psyche already very weak and fragile, Jackie
assesses her new situation by going through the fridge (filled with
meat) and the home (filled with taxidermy). As most vegans are, she's
condescending in sizing up her new family. To her credit, though, I
didn't think she was nearly as condescending as the vegan witch Barbara

from Fox's _Trading Spouses_ last year.

During one memorable segment, Jackie became emotional -- nearly
hysterical -- trying to explain how difficult it was for her to go to an
all raw diet. She offered some psychobabble comparing the whole
experience to alcoholism. To that bizarre melodrama, the other husband
(Ricky) apologized and said he didn't realize it would be so traumatic
for her.

As in the _Trading Spouses_ episodes on Fox in this vein last year, the
vegan wife felt compelled to show her new family some videos from animal
rights groups even after preaching to them about veganism for an entire
week. Jackie became an emotional wreck while watching them, even though
she said she's seen them many times before. Though the kids were briefly
stunned by such portrayals of farming (which are atypical), they didn't
exactly embrace the idea of eating nuts and fruits.

Ultimately, her attempts to convert the family in Kentucky failed. Since
the swap, they've added more vegetables to their meals but haven't given
up hunting or eating meat. Meanwhile, Jackie's kept the stove Bobbi (the
normal wife who ended up having to deal with milquetoast Harold) had
brought in and has even resumed eating some cooked foods. She admitted
maybe she was taking things too far. I'm sure her husband agrees she
*had* taken things too far, even if he lacks the courage to tell her how
****ed up he really thinks she is.

The moral of the story is that vegans DO take things too far. They try
to proselytize others, and they're usually very emotional and aggressive
about it. They think they're doing something virtuous and informative by
telling others not to eat meat, but vegans always end up coming across
as emotive, uninformed jackasses.

I also think vegans should go on more shows like this. First, it's very
entertaining. Second, it's illuminating for the wider population --
especially those in areas without or with very few vegans. Finally, it's
therapeutic in the sense that vegans on these shows seem to benefit from
interacting with *normal* people. For example, Jackie is again eating
cooked food. The vegan mother in the Fox show (Barbara) even ate meat
with the Cajun family.

You are assuming all vegans are like
each other.


They are, generally speaking. Vegans are conformists; they conform to a
doctrinaire, sanctimonious position that they have to save the world. I
should've pointed out above that Jackie's focus on the things most out
of her control and avoids dealing with the things most within her
control is typical of vegans. Vegans tend to be emotionally immature
(e.g., crying through repeated showings of AR videos) and obsess about
things they cannot control; they let the things they CAN control go
downhill -- whether it's a career, family, pet, etc. (And Jackie's case
shows how far and quickly someone can sink into the abyss. Her focus was
on things completely outside her control -- saving the animals. She
didn't work, she didn't tend to her home or family, she didn't tend well
to herself. Sound familiar, carless agoraphobic pothead Skanky?)



What the **** are you talking
about? My career, family, pets
have not gone downhill.


Hard to go further downhill when you've already reached rock-bottom.

I tend to myself well.


Bullshit. You continue to smoke pot despite knowing you're agoraphobic.
You've also admitted before to having eating disorders -- you suggested
you were way underweight at one point.

It's interesting
that you want to see all vegetarians


VEGANS. As opposed to vegetarians. Some vegetarians are nutty, too. But
as a rule, VEGANS are nuts.
  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2005, 07:02 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode

"usual suspect" wrote in message
...
Scented Nectar wrote:
"usual suspect" wrote in message
...

Skanky whined:

For benefit of those who missed this show (or who turned it off early
because she felt picked on again), here's a brief summary. This show
would benefit anyone who's never had the misfortune of encountering a
vegan. It showed what vegans are like, what they think and believe,

and
how they interact with normal people.

The vegan wife, Jackie, forces her entire household (including the

cat)
to consume a raw vegan diet. Her actions extend beyond herself and her
household: she protests meat and hands out leaflets to strangers on

the
street in an attempt to get them to live according to her peculiar
"principles." Part of those principles at home included getting rid of
their stove and many of their possessions; her home became

increasingly
spartan as she sank deeper into her kooky vegan abyss.

The best way to explain her average day is that she focuses on the
things most out of her control and avoids dealing with the things most
within her control. Her husband Harold WANTS to eat meat but fears

doing
so for the consequences he'd face from Jackie (note: he expressed no
fear of consequences to his health from it). Harold also overworks to
avoid coming home because Jackie is too busy navel-gazing, sun-gazing,
bitching, domineering, and protesting to clean house or do other

mundane
things; he's adopted the role of housemaid by default. The whole

family
were kind of drifting apart and becoming more dysfunctional, with

Harold
and the daughter afraid to speak up about any of the changes (dietary,
anti-"decorating," etc.).

Jackie ends up trading places with a wife from a family who hunt out

of
necessity. With her vegan psyche already very weak and fragile, Jackie
assesses her new situation by going through the fridge (filled with
meat) and the home (filled with taxidermy). As most vegans are, she's
condescending in sizing up her new family. To her credit, though, I
didn't think she was nearly as condescending as the vegan witch

Barbara

from Fox's _Trading Spouses_ last year.

During one memorable segment, Jackie became emotional -- nearly
hysterical -- trying to explain how difficult it was for her to go to

an
all raw diet. She offered some psychobabble comparing the whole
experience to alcoholism. To that bizarre melodrama, the other husband
(Ricky) apologized and said he didn't realize it would be so traumatic
for her.

As in the _Trading Spouses_ episodes on Fox in this vein last year,

the
vegan wife felt compelled to show her new family some videos from

animal
rights groups even after preaching to them about veganism for an

entire
week. Jackie became an emotional wreck while watching them, even

though
she said she's seen them many times before. Though the kids were

briefly
stunned by such portrayals of farming (which are atypical), they

didn't
exactly embrace the idea of eating nuts and fruits.

Ultimately, her attempts to convert the family in Kentucky failed.

Since
the swap, they've added more vegetables to their meals but haven't

given
up hunting or eating meat. Meanwhile, Jackie's kept the stove Bobbi

(the
normal wife who ended up having to deal with milquetoast Harold) had
brought in and has even resumed eating some cooked foods. She admitted
maybe she was taking things too far. I'm sure her husband agrees she
*had* taken things too far, even if he lacks the courage to tell her

how
****ed up he really thinks she is.

The moral of the story is that vegans DO take things too far. They try
to proselytize others, and they're usually very emotional and

aggressive
about it. They think they're doing something virtuous and informative

by
telling others not to eat meat, but vegans always end up coming across
as emotive, uninformed jackasses.

I also think vegans should go on more shows like this. First, it's

very
entertaining. Second, it's illuminating for the wider population --
especially those in areas without or with very few vegans. Finally,

it's
therapeutic in the sense that vegans on these shows seem to benefit

from
interacting with *normal* people. For example, Jackie is again eating
cooked food. The vegan mother in the Fox show (Barbara) even ate meat
with the Cajun family.

You are assuming all vegans are like
each other.

They are, generally speaking. Vegans are conformists; they conform to a
doctrinaire, sanctimonious position that they have to save the world. I
should've pointed out above that Jackie's focus on the things most out
of her control and avoids dealing with the things most within her
control is typical of vegans. Vegans tend to be emotionally immature
(e.g., crying through repeated showings of AR videos) and obsess about
things they cannot control; they let the things they CAN control go
downhill -- whether it's a career, family, pet, etc. (And Jackie's case
shows how far and quickly someone can sink into the abyss. Her focus was
on things completely outside her control -- saving the animals. She
didn't work, she didn't tend to her home or family, she didn't tend well
to herself. Sound familiar, carless agoraphobic pothead Skanky?)



What the **** are you talking
about? My career, family, pets
have not gone downhill.


Hard to go further downhill when you've already reached rock-bottom.


In your dreams.

I tend to myself well.


Bullshit. You continue to smoke pot despite knowing you're agoraphobic.
You've also admitted before to having eating disorders -- you suggested
you were way underweight at one point.


I have never had an eating disorder.
My weight as a kid (when I was eating
meat!) was under the norm. No fears
or illusions of being fat. No eating
disorder. My doctors never felt it was
a problem. I was never sick from it.
I never practiced bulimia or anything
similar. Since I don't smoke pot
before going into crowded areas, it
has nothing to do with agoraphobia.
Pot happens to calm me down and
mellow me out.

It's interesting
that you want to see all vegetarians


VEGANS. As opposed to vegetarians. Some vegetarians are nutty, too. But
as a rule, VEGANS are nuts.


Proof please. Now you're saying
that some vegetarians are alright,
only because you are currently
identifying as one. You did so in
a recent post.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/



  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 16-11-2005, 07:53 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,talk.politics.animals,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default wife swap vegan episode


"RobDar" wrote
issue of cd's? not sure I am following....


cds = The collateral death and suffering caused to animals by various
processes, in the case of commercial agriculture, the use of machines for
ploughing, seeding, spraying and harvesting of crops, and the use of organic
and inorganic chemicals for the elimination of pests and weeds. The animals
harmed can be larger mammals like deer, gophers, and rabbits, also smaller
mammals such as mice and other rodents such as shrews, moles and voles. Then
there are ground birds, lizards, frogs, and in the case of poisoning, any
animal that predates on them. We may even consider bees, ants, spiders,
grasshoppers, worms, and other animals of that genre, vegans certainly
consider them in their frequent semi-conscious moral calculations. The
collateral death toll to animals in food production arguably dwarfs the
number of direct deaths of livestock in food production. This all means
that the diet of the typical (sub)urban vegan or vegetarian who shops in
supermarkets could easily be related to more animal death and suffering than
a family who subsists largely on hunting. These often ignored facts cast
doubt on the vegan thought process which concludes that consuming even a
small amount of animal "product" is a moral stain on one's character.

The vegan moral calculation is embodied in the following fallacy, called
"Denying the Antecedent":
1) Animal products cause animal suffering
2) I abstain from animal products, therefore
3) I don't cause animal suffering




"Dutch" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
"Beach Runner" wrote

A typical US post, taking one example and making every VEG*N one
behavior. How prejudicial and bigoted.


The family had to be typical of raw-food vegan/ ARAs.

Obviously the producers sought extremists to make the sure more
interesting.


The other family were extreme also, hunting every day and eating mostly
meat.

The vegan family shopped at a local market, imported nuts, fruit,
vegetables, seeds, etc.. while the hunters got most of their food from
the local woods. The issue of cds never came up, but I am quite sure that
once the hidden collateral cost in animal death and suffering was tallied
up, the hunter family would fare quite well by comparison.








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