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Vegan Honey - by Michael Greger, MD
Why Honey Is Vegan
By Michael Greger http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html All the Buzz Without the Bee What looks like honey, feels like honey, and tastes like honey? Suzanne’s Specialities’ Just Like Honey Rice Nectar is just like honey except for one thing—it is bee-free. That’s right. This vegan “honey” simply astounded the Satya staff. Putting bees out of business, this sweetener made from brown rice, chicory, and maple syrups, reigns as the new taste of vegan. Gluten-free and GMO-free, this nectar is the perfect topping for pancakes, waffles and oatmeal, and a delightful addition to tea. In fact, long- time vegan, Roshni Koshy exclaimed that while she’s typically a coffee drinker, she’s going to switch to drinking tea just to flavor it with Just Like Honey. It lacks refined sugars and is still better than any other sweetener. Winnie the Pooh wouldn’t be able to tell the difference and neither will you. Order online at www.suzannes-specialties.com. —S.I. Honey hurts more than just bees. It hurts egg-laying hens, crammed in battery cages so small they can’t spread their wings. It hurts mother pigs, languishing for months in steel crates so narrow they can’t turn around. And the billions of aquatic animals who, pulled from filthy aquaculture farms, suffocate to death. All because honey hurts our movement. It’s happened to me over and over. Someone will ask me why I’m vegan—it could be a new friend, co-worker, distant family, or a complete stranger. I know I then have but a tiny window of opportunity to indelibly convey their first impression of veganism. I’m either going to open that window for that person, breezing in fresh ideas and sunlight, or slam it shut as the blinds fall. So I talk to them of mercy. Of the cats and dogs with whom they’ve shared their lives. Of birds with a half piece of paper’s worth of space in which to live and die. Of animals sometimes literally suffering to death. I used to eat meat too, I tell them. Lots of meat. And I never knew either. Slowly but surely the horror dawns on them. You start to see them struggling internally. How can they pet their dog with one hand and stab a piece of pig with the other? They love animals, but they eat animals. Then, just when their conscience seems to be winning out, they learn that we don’t eat honey. And you can see the conflict drain away with an almost visible sigh. They finally think they understand what this whole “vegan” thing is all about. You’re not vegan because you’re trying to be kind or compassionate—you’re just crazy! They smile. They point. You almost had me going for a second, they chuckle. Whew, that was a close one. They almost had to seriously think about the issues. They may have just been considering boycotting eggs, arguably the most concentrated form of animal cruelty, and then the thought hits them that you’re standing up for insect rights. Maybe they imagine us putting out little thimble-sized bowls of food for the cockroaches every night. I’m afraid that our public avoidance of honey is hurting us as a movement. A certain number of bees are undeniably killed by honey production, but far more insects are killed, for example, in sugar production. And if we really cared about bugs we would never again eat anything either at home or in a restaurant that wasn’t strictly organically grown—after all, killing bugs is what pesticides do best. And organic production uses pesticides too (albeit “natural”). Researchers measure up to approximately 10,000 bugs per square foot of soil—that’s over 400 million per acre, 250 trillion per square mile. Even “veganically” grown produce involves the deaths of countless bugs in lost habitat, tilling, harvesting and transportation. We probably kill more bugs driving to the grocery store to get some honey-sweetened product than are killed in the product’s production. Our position on honey therefore just doesn’t make any sense, and I think the general population knows this on an intuitive level. Veganism for them, then, becomes more about some quasi-religious personal purity, rather than about stopping animal abuse. No wonder veganism can seem nonsensical to the average person. We have this kind of magical thinking; we feel good about ourselves as if we’re actually helping the animals obsessing about where some trace ingredient comes from, when in fact it may have the opposite effect. We may be hurting animals by making veganism seem more like petty dogmatic self-flagellation. In my eyes, if we choose to avoid honey, fine. Let’s just not make a huge production of it and force everybody to do the same if they want to join the club. Michael Greger, M.D. is a physician, vegan nutrition specialist, and author of Carbophobia! The Scary Truth About America’s Low-Carb Craze (Lantern). For more on the honey question, see Vegan Outreach’s Vegan Starter Pack Q&A at http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html |
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Hi... not being critical of your statement and I agree with most of
what you commented on, but regarding bees, aren't many more-times more bees being given a chance at living a somewhat 'natural' life [in terms of free roaming/flying] by the existence of the industry [yes, I'm aware of the distress/deaths caused by the bee-handling methods]? Please, no venemous 'Usual Suspect' like responses to my remark-it's just my opinion. Also, one thing regarding the sweetener link... I was hoping to see more of what ingredients and nutrients/amounts are actually in their products and not just what's not in them. In the dialogue it says 'lacks refined sugars'-does that mean totally or to some degree? On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:13:52 GMT, Beach Runner > wrote: >Why Honey Is Vegan >By Michael Greger > >http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html > >All the Buzz Without the Bee > >What looks like honey, feels like honey, and tastes like honey? >Suzannes Specialities Just Like Honey Rice Nectar is just like >honey except for one thing€”it is bee-free. Thats right. This vegan >€śhoney€ť simply astounded the Satya staff. Putting bees out of >business, this sweetener made from brown rice, chicory, and maple >syrups, reigns as the new taste of vegan. > >Gluten-free and GMO-free, this nectar is the perfect topping for >pancakes, waffles and oatmeal, and a delightful addition to tea. In >fact, long- time vegan, Roshni Koshy exclaimed that while shes >typically a coffee drinker, shes going to switch to drinking tea >just to flavor it with Just Like Honey. It lacks refined sugars and >is still better than any other sweetener. Winnie the Pooh wouldnt be >able to tell the difference and neither will you. Order online at >www.suzannes-specialties.com. €”S.I. >Honey hurts more than just bees. It hurts egg-laying hens, crammed in >battery cages so small they cant spread their wings. It hurts mother >pigs, languishing for months in steel crates so narrow they cant >turn around. And the billions of aquatic animals who, pulled from >filthy aquaculture farms, suffocate to death. All because honey hurts >our movement. > >Its happened to me over and over. Someone will ask me why Im >vegan€”it could be a new friend, co-worker, distant family, or a >complete stranger. I know I then have but a tiny window of >opportunity to indelibly convey their first impression of veganism. >Im either going to open that window for that person, breezing in >fresh ideas and sunlight, or slam it shut as the blinds fall. So I >talk to them of mercy. Of the cats and dogs with whom theyve shared >their lives. Of birds with a half piece of papers worth of space in >which to live and die. Of animals sometimes literally suffering to >death. I used to eat meat too, I tell them. Lots of meat. And I never >knew either. > >Slowly but surely the horror dawns on them. You start to see them >struggling internally. How can they pet their dog with one hand and >stab a piece of pig with the other? They love animals, but they eat >animals. Then, just when their conscience seems to be winning out, >they learn that we dont eat honey. And you can see the conflict >drain away with an almost visible sigh. They finally think they >understand what this whole €śvegan€ť thing is all about. Youre not >vegan because youre trying to be kind or compassionate€”youre just >crazy! They smile. They point. You almost had me going for a second, >they chuckle. Whew, that was a close one. They almost had to >seriously think about the issues. They may have just been considering >boycotting eggs, arguably the most concentrated form of animal >cruelty, and then the thought hits them that youre standing up for >insect rights. Maybe they imagine us putting out little thimble-sized >bowls of food for the cockroaches every night. > >Im afraid that our public avoidance of honey is hurting us as a >movement. A certain number of bees are undeniably killed by honey >production, but far more insects are killed, for example, in sugar >production. And if we really cared about bugs we would never again >eat anything either at home or in a restaurant that wasnt strictly >organically grown€”after all, killing bugs is what pesticides do best. >And organic production uses pesticides too (albeit €śnatural€ť). >Researchers measure up to approximately 10,000 bugs per square foot >of soil€”thats over 400 million per acre, 250 trillion per square >mile. Even €śveganically€ť grown produce involves the deaths of >countless bugs in lost habitat, tilling, harvesting and >transportation. We probably kill more bugs driving to the grocery >store to get some honey-sweetened product than are killed in the >products production. > >Our position on honey therefore just doesnt make any sense, and I >think the general population knows this on an intuitive level. >Veganism for them, then, becomes more about some quasi-religious >personal purity, rather than about stopping animal abuse. No wonder >veganism can seem nonsensical to the average person. We have this >kind of magical thinking; we feel good about ourselves as if were >actually helping the animals obsessing about where some trace >ingredient comes from, when in fact it may have the opposite effect. >We may be hurting animals by making veganism seem more like petty >dogmatic self-flagellation. > >In my eyes, if we choose to avoid honey, fine. Lets just not make a >huge production of it and force everybody to do the same if they want >to join the club. > >Michael Greger, M.D. is a physician, vegan nutrition specialist, and >author of Carbophobia! The Scary Truth About Americas Low-Carb Craze >(Lantern). For more on the honey question, see Vegan Outreachs Vegan >Starter Pack Q&A at http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html |
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Joe wrote: > Hi... not being critical of your statement and I agree with most of > what you commented on, but regarding bees, aren't many more-times more > bees being given a chance at living a somewhat 'natural' life [in > terms of free roaming/flying] by the existence of the industry [yes, > I'm aware of the distress/deaths caused by the bee-handling methods]? > Please, no venemous 'Usual Suspect' like responses to my remark-it's > just my opinion. > Also, one thing regarding the sweetener link... I was hoping to see > more of what ingredients and nutrients/amounts are actually in their > products and not just what's not in them. In the dialogue it says > 'lacks refined sugars'-does that mean totally or to some degree? You could write to Michael Gregor. BTW, there's a declining population of honey bees in this nation from all the use of pesticides. > > On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:13:52 GMT, Beach Runner > wrote: > > >>Why Honey Is Vegan >>By Michael Greger >> >>http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html >> >>All the Buzz Without the Bee >> >>What looks like honey, feels like honey, and tastes like honey? >>Suzannes Specialities Just Like Honey Rice Nectar is just like >>honey except for one thing€”it is bee-free. Thats right. This vegan >>€śhoney€ť simply astounded the Satya staff. Putting bees out of >>business, this sweetener made from brown rice, chicory, and maple >>syrups, reigns as the new taste of vegan. >> >>Gluten-free and GMO-free, this nectar is the perfect topping for >>pancakes, waffles and oatmeal, and a delightful addition to tea. In >>fact, long- time vegan, Roshni Koshy exclaimed that while shes >>typically a coffee drinker, shes going to switch to drinking tea >>just to flavor it with Just Like Honey. It lacks refined sugars and >>is still better than any other sweetener. Winnie the Pooh wouldnt be >>able to tell the difference and neither will you. Order online at >>www.suzannes-specialties.com. €”S.I. >>Honey hurts more than just bees. It hurts egg-laying hens, crammed in >>battery cages so small they cant spread their wings. It hurts mother >>pigs, languishing for months in steel crates so narrow they cant >>turn around. And the billions of aquatic animals who, pulled from >>filthy aquaculture farms, suffocate to death. All because honey hurts >>our movement. >> >>Its happened to me over and over. Someone will ask me why Im >>vegan€”it could be a new friend, co-worker, distant family, or a >>complete stranger. I know I then have but a tiny window of >>opportunity to indelibly convey their first impression of veganism. >>Im either going to open that window for that person, breezing in >>fresh ideas and sunlight, or slam it shut as the blinds fall. So I >>talk to them of mercy. Of the cats and dogs with whom theyve shared >>their lives. Of birds with a half piece of papers worth of space in >>which to live and die. Of animals sometimes literally suffering to >>death. I used to eat meat too, I tell them. Lots of meat. And I never >>knew either. >> >>Slowly but surely the horror dawns on them. You start to see them >>struggling internally. How can they pet their dog with one hand and >>stab a piece of pig with the other? They love animals, but they eat >>animals. Then, just when their conscience seems to be winning out, >>they learn that we dont eat honey. And you can see the conflict >>drain away with an almost visible sigh. They finally think they >>understand what this whole €śvegan€ť thing is all about. Youre not >>vegan because youre trying to be kind or compassionate€”youre just >>crazy! They smile. They point. You almost had me going for a second, >>they chuckle. Whew, that was a close one. They almost had to >>seriously think about the issues. They may have just been considering >>boycotting eggs, arguably the most concentrated form of animal >>cruelty, and then the thought hits them that youre standing up for >>insect rights. Maybe they imagine us putting out little thimble-sized >>bowls of food for the cockroaches every night. >> >>Im afraid that our public avoidance of honey is hurting us as a >>movement. A certain number of bees are undeniably killed by honey >>production, but far more insects are killed, for example, in sugar >>production. And if we really cared about bugs we would never again >>eat anything either at home or in a restaurant that wasnt strictly >>organically grown€”after all, killing bugs is what pesticides do best. >>And organic production uses pesticides too (albeit €śnatural€ť). >>Researchers measure up to approximately 10,000 bugs per square foot >>of soil€”thats over 400 million per acre, 250 trillion per square >>mile. Even €śveganically€ť grown produce involves the deaths of >>countless bugs in lost habitat, tilling, harvesting and >>transportation. We probably kill more bugs driving to the grocery >>store to get some honey-sweetened product than are killed in the >>products production. >> >>Our position on honey therefore just doesnt make any sense, and I >>think the general population knows this on an intuitive level. >>Veganism for them, then, becomes more about some quasi-religious >>personal purity, rather than about stopping animal abuse. No wonder >>veganism can seem nonsensical to the average person. We have this >>kind of magical thinking; we feel good about ourselves as if were >>actually helping the animals obsessing about where some trace >>ingredient comes from, when in fact it may have the opposite effect. >>We may be hurting animals by making veganism seem more like petty >>dogmatic self-flagellation. >> >>In my eyes, if we choose to avoid honey, fine. Lets just not make a >>huge production of it and force everybody to do the same if they want >>to join the club. >> >>Michael Greger, M.D. is a physician, vegan nutrition specialist, and >>author of Carbophobia! The Scary Truth About Americas Low-Carb Craze >>(Lantern). For more on the honey question, see Vegan Outreachs Vegan >>Starter Pack Q&A at http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html > > |
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Would be sincerely interested in your best links to that fact about
decline in bee numbers--I heard that somewhere too. On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:48:24 GMT, Beach Runner > wrote: > > >Joe wrote: >> Hi... not being critical of your statement and I agree with most of >> what you commented on, but regarding bees, aren't many more-times more >> bees being given a chance at living a somewhat 'natural' life [in >> terms of free roaming/flying] by the existence of the industry [yes, >> I'm aware of the distress/deaths caused by the bee-handling methods]? >> Please, no venemous 'Usual Suspect' like responses to my remark-it's >> just my opinion. >> Also, one thing regarding the sweetener link... I was hoping to see >> more of what ingredients and nutrients/amounts are actually in their >> products and not just what's not in them. In the dialogue it says >> 'lacks refined sugars'-does that mean totally or to some degree? > > > > >You could write to Michael Gregor. > >BTW, there's a declining population of honey bees in this nation from >all the use of pesticides. > > > > > > > > > > >> >> On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:13:52 GMT, Beach Runner > wrote: >> >> >>>Why Honey Is Vegan >>>By Michael Greger >>> >>>http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html >>> >>>All the Buzz Without the Bee >>> >>>What looks like honey, feels like honey, and tastes like honey? >>>Suzannes Specialities Just Like Honey Rice Nectar is just like >>>honey except for one thing€”it is bee-free. Thats right. This vegan >>>€śhoney€ť simply astounded the Satya staff. Putting bees out of >>>business, this sweetener made from brown rice, chicory, and maple >>>syrups, reigns as the new taste of vegan. >>> >>>Gluten-free and GMO-free, this nectar is the perfect topping for >>>pancakes, waffles and oatmeal, and a delightful addition to tea. In >>>fact, long- time vegan, Roshni Koshy exclaimed that while shes >>>typically a coffee drinker, shes going to switch to drinking tea >>>just to flavor it with Just Like Honey. It lacks refined sugars and >>>is still better than any other sweetener. Winnie the Pooh wouldnt be >>>able to tell the difference and neither will you. Order online at >>>www.suzannes-specialties.com. €”S.I. >>>Honey hurts more than just bees. It hurts egg-laying hens, crammed in >>>battery cages so small they cant spread their wings. It hurts mother >>>pigs, languishing for months in steel crates so narrow they cant >>>turn around. And the billions of aquatic animals who, pulled from >>>filthy aquaculture farms, suffocate to death. All because honey hurts >>>our movement. >>> >>>Its happened to me over and over. Someone will ask me why Im >>>vegan€”it could be a new friend, co-worker, distant family, or a >>>complete stranger. I know I then have but a tiny window of >>>opportunity to indelibly convey their first impression of veganism. >>>Im either going to open that window for that person, breezing in >>>fresh ideas and sunlight, or slam it shut as the blinds fall. So I >>>talk to them of mercy. Of the cats and dogs with whom theyve shared >>>their lives. Of birds with a half piece of papers worth of space in >>>which to live and die. Of animals sometimes literally suffering to >>>death. I used to eat meat too, I tell them. Lots of meat. And I never >>>knew either. >>> >>>Slowly but surely the horror dawns on them. You start to see them >>>struggling internally. How can they pet their dog with one hand and >>>stab a piece of pig with the other? They love animals, but they eat >>>animals. Then, just when their conscience seems to be winning out, >>>they learn that we dont eat honey. And you can see the conflict >>>drain away with an almost visible sigh. They finally think they >>>understand what this whole €śvegan€ť thing is all about. Youre not >>>vegan because youre trying to be kind or compassionate€”youre just >>>crazy! They smile. They point. You almost had me going for a second, >>>they chuckle. Whew, that was a close one. They almost had to >>>seriously think about the issues. They may have just been considering >>>boycotting eggs, arguably the most concentrated form of animal >>>cruelty, and then the thought hits them that youre standing up for >>>insect rights. Maybe they imagine us putting out little thimble-sized >>>bowls of food for the cockroaches every night. >>> >>>Im afraid that our public avoidance of honey is hurting us as a >>>movement. A certain number of bees are undeniably killed by honey >>>production, but far more insects are killed, for example, in sugar >>>production. And if we really cared about bugs we would never again >>>eat anything either at home or in a restaurant that wasnt strictly >>>organically grown€”after all, killing bugs is what pesticides do best. >>>And organic production uses pesticides too (albeit €śnatural€ť). >>>Researchers measure up to approximately 10,000 bugs per square foot >>>of soil€”thats over 400 million per acre, 250 trillion per square >>>mile. Even €śveganically€ť grown produce involves the deaths of >>>countless bugs in lost habitat, tilling, harvesting and >>>transportation. We probably kill more bugs driving to the grocery >>>store to get some honey-sweetened product than are killed in the >>>products production. >>> >>>Our position on honey therefore just doesnt make any sense, and I >>>think the general population knows this on an intuitive level. >>>Veganism for them, then, becomes more about some quasi-religious >>>personal purity, rather than about stopping animal abuse. No wonder >>>veganism can seem nonsensical to the average person. We have this >>>kind of magical thinking; we feel good about ourselves as if were >>>actually helping the animals obsessing about where some trace >>>ingredient comes from, when in fact it may have the opposite effect. >>>We may be hurting animals by making veganism seem more like petty >>>dogmatic self-flagellation. >>> >>>In my eyes, if we choose to avoid honey, fine. Lets just not make a >>>huge production of it and force everybody to do the same if they want >>>to join the club. >>> >>>Michael Greger, M.D. is a physician, vegan nutrition specialist, and >>>author of Carbophobia! The Scary Truth About Americas Low-Carb Craze >>>(Lantern). For more on the honey question, see Vegan Outreachs Vegan >>>Starter Pack Q&A at http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html >> >> |
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A Joe wrote: > Would be sincerely interested in your best links to that fact about > decline in bee numbers--I heard that somewhere too. > A quick google search found National Geographic's http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...honeybees.html others are http://www.pulseplanet.com/archive/Oct04/3287.html West Virginia Agricultural http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/ipm/inse...t/contbees.htm NAS http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/Commit...A?OpenDocument Should be clear it's a real problem. > On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:48:24 GMT, Beach Runner > wrote: > > >> >>Joe wrote: >> >>>Hi... not being critical of your statement and I agree with most of >>>what you commented on, but regarding bees, aren't many more-times more >>>bees being given a chance at living a somewhat 'natural' life [in >>>terms of free roaming/flying] by the existence of the industry [yes, >>>I'm aware of the distress/deaths caused by the bee-handling methods]? >>>Please, no venemous 'Usual Suspect' like responses to my remark-it's >>>just my opinion. >>>Also, one thing regarding the sweetener link... I was hoping to see >>>more of what ingredients and nutrients/amounts are actually in their >>>products and not just what's not in them. In the dialogue it says >>>'lacks refined sugars'-does that mean totally or to some degree? >> >> >> >> >>You could write to Michael Gregor. >> >>BTW, there's a declining population of honey bees in this nation from >>all the use of pesticides. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:13:52 GMT, Beach Runner > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Why Honey Is Vegan >>>>By Michael Greger >>>> >>>>http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html >>>> >>>>All the Buzz Without the Bee >>>> >>>>What looks like honey, feels like honey, and tastes like honey? >>>>Suzannes Specialities Just Like Honey Rice Nectar is just like >>>>honey except for one thing€”it is bee-free. Thats right. This vegan >>>>€śhoney€ť simply astounded the Satya staff. Putting bees out of >>>>business, this sweetener made from brown rice, chicory, and maple >>>>syrups, reigns as the new taste of vegan. >>>> >>>>Gluten-free and GMO-free, this nectar is the perfect topping for >>>>pancakes, waffles and oatmeal, and a delightful addition to tea. In >>>>fact, long- time vegan, Roshni Koshy exclaimed that while shes >>>>typically a coffee drinker, shes going to switch to drinking tea >>>>just to flavor it with Just Like Honey. It lacks refined sugars and >>>>is still better than any other sweetener. Winnie the Pooh wouldnt be >>>>able to tell the difference and neither will you. Order online at >>>>www.suzannes-specialties.com. €”S.I. >>>>Honey hurts more than just bees. It hurts egg-laying hens, crammed in >>>>battery cages so small they cant spread their wings. It hurts mother >>>>pigs, languishing for months in steel crates so narrow they cant >>>>turn around. And the billions of aquatic animals who, pulled from >>>>filthy aquaculture farms, suffocate to death. All because honey hurts >>>>our movement. >>>> >>>>Its happened to me over and over. Someone will ask me why Im >>>>vegan€”it could be a new friend, co-worker, distant family, or a >>>>complete stranger. I know I then have but a tiny window of >>>>opportunity to indelibly convey their first impression of veganism. >>>>Im either going to open that window for that person, breezing in >>>>fresh ideas and sunlight, or slam it shut as the blinds fall. So I >>>>talk to them of mercy. Of the cats and dogs with whom theyve shared >>>>their lives. Of birds with a half piece of papers worth of space in >>>>which to live and die. Of animals sometimes literally suffering to >>>>death. I used to eat meat too, I tell them. Lots of meat. And I never >>>>knew either. >>>> >>>>Slowly but surely the horror dawns on them. You start to see them >>>>struggling internally. How can they pet their dog with one hand and >>>>stab a piece of pig with the other? They love animals, but they eat >>>>animals. Then, just when their conscience seems to be winning out, >>>>they learn that we dont eat honey. And you can see the conflict >>>>drain away with an almost visible sigh. They finally think they >>>>understand what this whole €śvegan€ť thing is all about. Youre not >>>>vegan because youre trying to be kind or compassionate€”youre just >>>>crazy! They smile. They point. You almost had me going for a second, >>>>they chuckle. Whew, that was a close one. They almost had to >>>>seriously think about the issues. They may have just been considering >>>>boycotting eggs, arguably the most concentrated form of animal >>>>cruelty, and then the thought hits them that youre standing up for >>>>insect rights. Maybe they imagine us putting out little thimble-sized >>>>bowls of food for the cockroaches every night. >>>> >>>>Im afraid that our public avoidance of honey is hurting us as a >>>>movement. A certain number of bees are undeniably killed by honey >>>>production, but far more insects are killed, for example, in sugar >>>>production. And if we really cared about bugs we would never again >>>>eat anything either at home or in a restaurant that wasnt strictly >>>>organically grown€”after all, killing bugs is what pesticides do best. >>>>And organic production uses pesticides too (albeit €śnatural€ť). >>>>Researchers measure up to approximately 10,000 bugs per square foot >>>>of soil€”thats over 400 million per acre, 250 trillion per square >>>>mile. Even €śveganically€ť grown produce involves the deaths of >>>>countless bugs in lost habitat, tilling, harvesting and >>>>transportation. We probably kill more bugs driving to the grocery >>>>store to get some honey-sweetened product than are killed in the >>>>products production. >>>> >>>>Our position on honey therefore just doesnt make any sense, and I >>>>think the general population knows this on an intuitive level. >>>>Veganism for them, then, becomes more about some quasi-religious >>>>personal purity, rather than about stopping animal abuse. No wonder >>>>veganism can seem nonsensical to the average person. We have this >>>>kind of magical thinking; we feel good about ourselves as if were >>>>actually helping the animals obsessing about where some trace >>>>ingredient comes from, when in fact it may have the opposite effect. >>>>We may be hurting animals by making veganism seem more like petty >>>>dogmatic self-flagellation. >>>> >>>>In my eyes, if we choose to avoid honey, fine. Lets just not make a >>>>huge production of it and force everybody to do the same if they want >>>>to join the club. >>>> >>>>Michael Greger, M.D. is a physician, vegan nutrition specialist, and >>>>author of Carbophobia! The Scary Truth About Americas Low-Carb Craze >>>>(Lantern). For more on the honey question, see Vegan Outreachs Vegan >>>>Starter Pack Q&A at http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html >>> >>> > |
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Thanks for the links BR,
I could've googled about, but I find there are excellent link resources provided in this group. It's quite a bad situation. With all the info so readily available on eating healthy, it's a tragic shame so many amongst us choose to be animal-fat guzzling baboons [ no disrespect to the primates], and teach their kids to opt for chemically enhanced tastes of foods rather than vegetarian richness. Well, as much as I can I hint off-handedly with nutritional blah-blah to my acquaintances one doesn't need meat in their diet at all; and in some cases it works! I'll now add they should opt for organic honey over non-organic sugars, and buttress up the bee population/industry, as well as encourage vigorous vigilence on their survival-hopefully. On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:12:28 GMT, Beach Runner > wrote: > >A >Joe wrote: >> Would be sincerely interested in your best links to that fact about >> decline in bee numbers--I heard that somewhere too. >> > >A quick google search found National Geographic's > >http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...honeybees.html > >others are >http://www.pulseplanet.com/archive/Oct04/3287.html > >West Virginia Agricultural >http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/ipm/inse...t/contbees.htm > >NAS >http://www4.nas.edu/webcr.nsf/Commit...A?OpenDocument > >Should be clear it's a real problem. >> On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 23:48:24 GMT, Beach Runner > wrote: >> >> >>> >>>Joe wrote: >>> >>>>Hi... not being critical of your statement and I agree with most of >>>>what you commented on, but regarding bees, aren't many more-times more >>>>bees being given a chance at living a somewhat 'natural' life [in >>>>terms of free roaming/flying] by the existence of the industry [yes, >>>>I'm aware of the distress/deaths caused by the bee-handling methods]? >>>>Please, no venemous 'Usual Suspect' like responses to my remark-it's >>>>just my opinion. >>>>Also, one thing regarding the sweetener link... I was hoping to see >>>>more of what ingredients and nutrients/amounts are actually in their >>>>products and not just what's not in them. In the dialogue it says >>>>'lacks refined sugars'-does that mean totally or to some degree? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>You could write to Michael Gregor. >>> >>>BTW, there's a declining population of honey bees in this nation from >>>all the use of pesticides. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>On Wed, 21 Sep 2005 13:13:52 GMT, Beach Runner > wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>Why Honey Is Vegan >>>>>By Michael Greger >>>>> >>>>>http://www.satyamag.com/sept05/greger.html >>>>> >>>>>All the Buzz Without the Bee >>>>> >>>>>What looks like honey, feels like honey, and tastes like honey? >>>>>Suzannes Specialities Just Like Honey Rice Nectar is just like >>>>>honey except for one thing€”it is bee-free. Thats right. This vegan >>>>>€śhoney€ť simply astounded the Satya staff. Putting bees out of >>>>>business, this sweetener made from brown rice, chicory, and maple >>>>>syrups, reigns as the new taste of vegan. >>>>> >>>>>Gluten-free and GMO-free, this nectar is the perfect topping for >>>>>pancakes, waffles and oatmeal, and a delightful addition to tea. In >>>>>fact, long- time vegan, Roshni Koshy exclaimed that while shes >>>>>typically a coffee drinker, shes going to switch to drinking tea >>>>>just to flavor it with Just Like Honey. It lacks refined sugars and >>>>>is still better than any other sweetener. Winnie the Pooh wouldnt be >>>>>able to tell the difference and neither will you. Order online at >>>>>www.suzannes-specialties.com. €”S.I. >>>>>Honey hurts more than just bees. It hurts egg-laying hens, crammed in >>>>>battery cages so small they cant spread their wings. It hurts mother >>>>>pigs, languishing for months in steel crates so narrow they cant >>>>>turn around. And the billions of aquatic animals who, pulled from >>>>>filthy aquaculture farms, suffocate to death. All because honey hurts >>>>>our movement. >>>>> >>>>>Its happened to me over and over. Someone will ask me why Im >>>>>vegan€”it could be a new friend, co-worker, distant family, or a >>>>>complete stranger. I know I then have but a tiny window of >>>>>opportunity to indelibly convey their first impression of veganism. >>>>>Im either going to open that window for that person, breezing in >>>>>fresh ideas and sunlight, or slam it shut as the blinds fall. So I >>>>>talk to them of mercy. Of the cats and dogs with whom theyve shared >>>>>their lives. Of birds with a half piece of papers worth of space in >>>>>which to live and die. Of animals sometimes literally suffering to >>>>>death. I used to eat meat too, I tell them. Lots of meat. And I never >>>>>knew either. >>>>> >>>>>Slowly but surely the horror dawns on them. You start to see them >>>>>struggling internally. How can they pet their dog with one hand and >>>>>stab a piece of pig with the other? They love animals, but they eat >>>>>animals. Then, just when their conscience seems to be winning out, >>>>>they learn that we dont eat honey. And you can see the conflict >>>>>drain away with an almost visible sigh. They finally think they >>>>>understand what this whole €śvegan€ť thing is all about. Youre not >>>>>vegan because youre trying to be kind or compassionate€”youre just >>>>>crazy! They smile. They point. You almost had me going for a second, >>>>>they chuckle. Whew, that was a close one. They almost had to >>>>>seriously think about the issues. They may have just been considering >>>>>boycotting eggs, arguably the most concentrated form of animal >>>>>cruelty, and then the thought hits them that youre standing up for >>>>>insect rights. Maybe they imagine us putting out little thimble-sized >>>>>bowls of food for the cockroaches every night. >>>>> >>>>>Im afraid that our public avoidance of honey is hurting us as a >>>>>movement. A certain number of bees are undeniably killed by honey >>>>>production, but far more insects are killed, for example, in sugar >>>>>production. And if we really cared about bugs we would never again >>>>>eat anything either at home or in a restaurant that wasnt strictly >>>>>organically grown€”after all, killing bugs is what pesticides do best. >>>>>And organic production uses pesticides too (albeit €śnatural€ť). >>>>>Researchers measure up to approximately 10,000 bugs per square foot >>>>>of soil€”thats over 400 million per acre, 250 trillion per square >>>>>mile. Even €śveganically€ť grown produce involves the deaths of >>>>>countless bugs in lost habitat, tilling, harvesting and >>>>>transportation. We probably kill more bugs driving to the grocery >>>>>store to get some honey-sweetened product than are killed in the >>>>>products production. >>>>> >>>>>Our position on honey therefore just doesnt make any sense, and I >>>>>think the general population knows this on an intuitive level. >>>>>Veganism for them, then, becomes more about some quasi-religious >>>>>personal purity, rather than about stopping animal abuse. No wonder >>>>>veganism can seem nonsensical to the average person. We have this >>>>>kind of magical thinking; we feel good about ourselves as if were >>>>>actually helping the animals obsessing about where some trace >>>>>ingredient comes from, when in fact it may have the opposite effect. >>>>>We may be hurting animals by making veganism seem more like petty >>>>>dogmatic self-flagellation. >>>>> >>>>>In my eyes, if we choose to avoid honey, fine. Lets just not make a >>>>>huge production of it and force everybody to do the same if they want >>>>>to join the club. >>>>> >>>>>Michael Greger, M.D. is a physician, vegan nutrition specialist, and >>>>>author of Carbophobia! The Scary Truth About Americas Low-Carb Craze >>>>>(Lantern). For more on the honey question, see Vegan Outreachs Vegan >>>>>Starter Pack Q&A at http://www.veganoutreach.org/starterpack/qa.html >>>> >>>> >> |
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>>>What looks like honey, feels like honey, and tastes like honey? >>>Suzanne's Specialities' Just Like Honey Rice Nectar is just like >>>honey except for one thing-it is bee-free. That's right. This vegan >>>"honey" simply astounded the Satya staff. Putting bees out of >>>business, this sweetener made from brown rice, chicory, and maple >>>syrups, reigns as the new taste of vegan. Never heard of Suzanne's Specialties. Where can I buy this stuff in UK? Bill |
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"MadAsAFish_NewsGroups" > wrote in message o.uk... > >>>>What looks like honey, feels like honey, and tastes like honey? >>>>Suzanne's Specialities' Just Like Honey Rice Nectar is just like >>>>honey except for one thing-it is bee-free. That's right. This vegan >>>>"honey" simply astounded the Satya staff. Putting bees out of >>>>business, this sweetener made from brown rice, chicory, and maple >>>>syrups, reigns as the new taste of vegan. > > > Never heard of Suzanne's Specialties. > Where can I buy this stuff in UK? Don't know UK, but Suzanne's Specialties US number is 800-762-2135 or 732-828-8500 |
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Joe wrote:
STOP TOP-POSTING, you ****ant. > It's quite a bad situation. With all the info so readily available on > eating healthy, it's a tragic shame so many amongst us choose to be > animal-fat guzzling baboons [ no disrespect to the primates], and > teach their kids to opt for chemically enhanced tastes of foods rather > than vegetarian richness. "Enhancing" the flavor of foods is not unique to humans or to this generation. Nishida [1991] provides an impressive listing of the differences in feeding behavior of chimpanzees, baboons, and monkeys. Of possible interest to raw-fooders is his description of the macaques of Koshima Island, Japan dipping food into seawater for seasoning (some raw-food advocates stridently condemn the practice of seasoning foods). Of course, that non-human primates display cultural food preferences suggests human cultural food preferences are an extension of that feature. http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/...-anat-3c.shtml > Well, as much as I can I hint off-handedly > with nutritional blah-blah to my acquaintances Why would you do that to others? Seriously, do you think your acquaintance (note you don't call them friends) give a rat's ass for your misinformation and the eating disorder you've acquired from it? Why would you begrudge them the ENJOYMENT of their food? > one doesn't need meat in their diet at all; So what. You also don't "need" fruit or vegetables. Or grains. Or legumes. There's a lot you can get by without for a very long time. > and in some cases it works! Works how -- in alienating people from going beyond the "acquaintance" stage with you? > I'll now add they > should opt for organic honey over non-organic sugars, and buttress up > the bee population/industry, as well as encourage vigorous vigilence > on their survival-hopefully. Thus ensuring you'll ever have friends by demonstrating your peculiar and bizzarre contempt and disrespect for what others choose to consume. People don't want lectures from blithering dipshits like you. They want to enjoy themselves. Leave them be. |
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"private ahab" > wrote in message
... > Thus ensuring you'll ever have friends by demonstrating your peculiar > and bizzarre contempt and disrespect for what others choose to consume. > People don't want lectures from blithering dipshits like you. They want > to enjoy themselves. Leave them be. Why are you hanging out in a vegan newsgroup? Wouldn't you rather be with your dead body eating peers? -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ |
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Skanky wrote:
>>Thus ensuring you'll never have friends by demonstrating your peculiar >>and bizzarre contempt and disrespect for what others choose to consume. >>People don't want lectures from blithering dipshits like you. They want >>to enjoy themselves. Leave them be. > > Why are you hanging out in a vegan > newsgroup? I'm not "hanging out." I'm contributing to the flow of issues and ideas. > Wouldn't you rather be > with your dead body eating peers? They don't eat "dead bodies" and I've already finished my lunch. |
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"private ahab" > wrote in message
... > Skanky wrote: > >>Thus ensuring you'll never have friends by demonstrating your peculiar > >>and bizzarre contempt and disrespect for what others choose to consume. > >>People don't want lectures from blithering dipshits like you. They want > >>to enjoy themselves. Leave them be. > > > > Why are you hanging out in a vegan > > newsgroup? > > I'm not "hanging out." I'm contributing to the flow of issues and ideas. > > > Wouldn't you rather be > > with your dead body eating peers? > > They don't eat "dead bodies" and I've already finished my lunch. They are eating bodies, and they are dead. Therefore they are eating dead bodies. Do you think pork chops grow on trees? Don't you have any work to do Jon? -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ |
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Skanky wrote:
>>>>Thus ensuring you'll never have friends by demonstrating your peculiar >>>>and bizzarre contempt and disrespect for what others choose to consume. >>>>People don't want lectures from blithering dipshits like you. They want >>>>to enjoy themselves. Leave them be. >>> >>>Why are you hanging out in a vegan >>>newsgroup? >> >>I'm not "hanging out." I'm contributing to the flow of issues and ideas. >> >>>Wouldn't you rather be >>>with your dead body eating peers? >> >>They don't eat "dead bodies" and I've already finished my lunch. > > They are eating bodies No, they're eating meat. > Don't you have any work to do Jon? That's not my name, Skanky. |
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"usual suspect" > wrote in message
... > Skanky wrote: > >>>>Thus ensuring you'll never have friends by demonstrating your peculiar > >>>>and bizzarre contempt and disrespect for what others choose to consume. > >>>>People don't want lectures from blithering dipshits like you. They want > >>>>to enjoy themselves. Leave them be. > >>> > >>>Why are you hanging out in a vegan > >>>newsgroup? > >> > >>I'm not "hanging out." I'm contributing to the flow of issues and ideas. > >> > >>>Wouldn't you rather be > >>>with your dead body eating peers? > >> > >>They don't eat "dead bodies" and I've already finished my lunch. > > > > They are eating bodies > > No, they're eating meat. What do you think meat is, a vegetable? It's body parts. If you're going to tout it, at least admit what it is. > > Don't you have any work to do Jon? > > That's not my name, Skanky. So why were you using a different pseudonym? You should know by now that most of your insults sound just like Gooby. -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ |
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