Hello
Is it said how much meat is necassary to eat so as not to suffer B12
deficiency?
U¿ytkownik "Light Cutter" > napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Vitamin B-12 (Cobalamin) is not bioavailable in plant form. The best way
to get B-12 is from Meat.

A study I found while doing some research:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/72/3/762

Background: Lack of cobalamin may lead to neurologic disorders, which have
been reported in strict vegetarians.

Objective: The objective of this study was to investigate whether
cognitive functioning is affected in adolescents (aged 10-16 y) with
marginal cobalamin status as a result of being fed a macrobiotic diet up to
an average age of 6 y.

Design: Data on dietary intake, psychological test performance, and
biochemical variables of cobalamin status were collected from 48 adolescents
who consumed macrobiotic (vegan type) diets up to the age of 6 y,
subsequently followed by lactovegetarian or omnivorous diets, and from 24
subjects (aged 10-18 y) who were fed omnivorous diets from birth onward.
Thirty-one subjects from the previously macrobiotic group were cobalamin
deficient according to their plasma methylmalonic acid concentrations.
Seventeen previously macrobiotic subjects and all control subjects had
normal cobalamin status.

Results: The control subjects performed better on most psychological tests
than did macrobiotic subjects with low or normal cobalamin status. A
significant relation between test score and cobalamin deficiency (P = 0.01)
was observed for a test measuring fluid intelligence (correlation
coefficient: -0.28; 95% CI: -0.48, -0.08). This effect became more
pronounced (P = 0.003) within the subgroup of macrobiotic subjects
(correlation coefficient: -0.38; 95% CI: -0.62, - 0.14).

Conclusion: Our data suggest that cobalamin deficiency, in the absence of
hematologic signs, may lead to impaired cognitive performance in
adolescents.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________

More problems with B-12 deficency:

VITAMIN B-12 DEFICIENCY SHOULD BE CONCERN FOR VEGETARIAN MOTHERS
During 2001, cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency resulted in neurologic
impairment in two children in Georgia. The children were breastfed by
mothers who followed vegetarian diets. A recent report from the U.S. Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) summarizes the two cases and
provides guidance for health-care providers on identifying and preventing
cobalamin deficiency among breastfed infants of vegetarian mothers.



Oh, I know an easy way to Avoid B-12 deficency...EAT MORE MEAT!



-CARP-

http://www.geocities.com/ncenginear/carp.html

mch wrote:
> Hello
> Is it said how much meat is necassary to eat so as not to suffer B12
> deficiency?

Here is an entire web site that says it is not.

http://www.veganhealth.org

B-12 from meat is very hard for a human body to absorb via the digestion
process. Though vegans need to take supplemental b-12 so do many people
over 50, people who smoke, and people who drink because all of those
weaken the ability of digestive system to absorb b-12.



Steve

Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html

Steve's Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real
unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
shopping mall"

"mch" > wrote in message
...
> Hello
> Is it said how much meat is necassary to eat so as not to suffer B12
> deficiency?
....
> More problems with B-12 deficency:
>
> VITAMIN B-12 DEFICIENCY SHOULD BE CONCERN FOR VEGETARIAN MOTHERS
.....
> Oh, I know an easy way to Avoid B-12 deficency...EAT MORE MEAT!

Couldn't you just have some toast with vegemite, and maybe avocado for extra
yumminess? I may not be a vegetarian, but I can see the total weakness to
your position.


--
---
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
http://www.mega.bz
http://www.wiccanica.com

hello
what i wanted to know is how much "meat" animal proteins, which comes from
eggs or fish not necessarly red meat, i have to eat to fullfill this
necesarity of B12?
Not how to take some medication=chemical stuff! Is not a problem for me to
eat some fish once a week for instance!
ok?
So please give me an answer, cos i know u must know a lot about the subject,
right?
thanks!

U¿ytkownik "kC" > napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
> "mch" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Hello
>> Is it said how much meat is necassary to eat so as not to suffer B12
>> deficiency?
> ...
>> More problems with B-12 deficency:
>>
>> VITAMIN B-12 DEFICIENCY SHOULD BE CONCERN FOR VEGETARIAN MOTHERS
> ....
>> Oh, I know an easy way to Avoid B-12 deficency...EAT MORE MEAT!
>
> Couldn't you just have some toast with vegemite, and maybe avocado for
> extra
> yumminess? I may not be a vegetarian, but I can see the total weakness to
> your position.
>
>
> --
> ---
> /
> o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
> \
> http://www.mega.bz
> http://www.wiccanica.com
>
>

mch wrote:
> hello
> what i wanted to know is how much "meat" animal proteins, which comes from
> eggs or fish not necessarly red meat, i have to eat to fullfill this
> necesarity of B12?

Zero.


> Not how to take some medication=chemical stuff! Is not a problem for me to
> eat some fish once a week for instance!
> ok?

B-12 supplements are made from yeasts/bacteria/fermentation, a process
as old and as natural as the hills.

There is one type of nutritional yeast from red star that has natural
b-12 in it( I *think* t2665 ).

You can find out your usrda for b-12 at
http://www.veganhealth.org

You can then see how much is in a serving of the nutritional yeast from
the bottle.

You can also buy unpasteurized miso or tempeh over the internet with
live cultures and b-12.

You can also navigate around this site to find the exact usrda for b-12

The link in my sig also has reviews for vegetarian nutrition books that
will answer your questions.


Steve

Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html

Steve's Home Page
http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/

"The great American thought trap: It is not real
unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
shopping mall"

Steve wrote:

> mch wrote:
>
>> hello
>> what i wanted to know is how much "meat" animal proteins, which comes
>> from eggs or fish not necessarly red meat, i have to eat to fullfill
>> this necesarity of B12?
>
>
> Zero.
>
>
>> Not how to take some medication=chemical stuff! Is not a problem for
>> me to eat some fish once a week for instance!
>> ok?
>
>
> B-12 supplements are made from yeasts/bacteria/fermentation, a process
> as old and as natural as the hills.
>
> There is one type of nutritional yeast from red star that has natural
> b-12 in it( I *think* t2665 ).
>
> You can find out your usrda for b-12 at
> http://www.veganhealth.org
>
> You can then see how much is in a serving of the nutritional yeast from
> the bottle.
>
> You can also buy unpasteurized miso or tempeh over the internet with
> live cultures and b-12.
>
> You can also navigate around this site to find the exact usrda for b-12
>
> The link in my sig also has reviews for vegetarian nutrition books that
> will answer your questions.
>
>
> Steve
>
> Be A Healthy Vegan Or Vegetarian
> http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdo...ealthyVeg.html
>
> Steve's Home Page
> http://www.geocities.com/beforewisdom/
>
> "The great American thought trap: It is not real
> unless it can be seen on television or bought in a
> shopping mall"
>
>
AS I've said, B12 deficiencies are common among seniors, as B12 is made
from yeast. My 79 year old bike riding fisherman, meat eater has to get
B12 shots. Eating the worst way to get B12, it's destroyed in the
stomach. Sublingual is better. In this case modern medicine has made
injections the most effective method.

The theory is that modern hygiene has reduced the leels of B12 found in
foods.

Beach Runner wrote:
<...>
> AS I've said, B12 deficiencies are common among seniors, as B12 is made
> from yeast.

No, Bob, it's synthesized from cobalt by bacteria:
http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html

> My 79 year old bike riding fisherman, meat eater has to get
> B12 shots. Eating the worst way to get B12,

No, it's not.

> it's destroyed in the stomach.

Bullshit:
Vitamin B12 is bound to the protein in food. Hydrochloric acid
in the stomach releases B12 from proteins in foods during
digestion. Once released, vitamin B12 combines with a substance
called gastric intrinsic factor (IF). This complex can then be
absorbed by the intestinal tract.
http://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/vitaminb12.asp

> Sublingual is better.

More efficacious than B12 pills, but not injections or diet.

> In this case modern medicine has made
> injections the most effective method.

For those with chronic deficiencies, including vegans.

> The theory is that modern hygiene has reduced the leels of B12 found in
> foods.

This is, like nearly everything you wrote, BS.

Why bother, bit

usual suspect wrote:

> Beach Runner wrote:
> <...>
>
>> AS I've said, B12 deficiencies are common among seniors, as B12 is
>> made from yeast.
>
>
> No, Bob, it's synthesized from cobalt by bacteria:
> http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html
>


Introduction
Vitamin B12 is a member of the vitamin B complex. It contains cobalt,
and so is also known as cobalamin.

It is exclusively synthesised by bacteria and is found primarily in
meat, eggs and dairy products.

There has been considerable research into proposed plant sources of
vitamin B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds, and algae such as
spirulina have all been suggested as containing significant B12.
However, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is
likely to be unavailable to humans and so these foods should not be
relied upon as safe sources. Many vegan foods are supplemented with B12.
Vitamin B12 is necessary for the synthesis of red blood cells, the
maintenance of the nervous system, and growth and development in
children. Deficiency can cause anaemia. Vitamin B12 neuropathy,
involving the degeneration of nerve fibres and irreversible neurological
damage, can also occur
>> My 79 year old bike riding fisherman, meat eater has to get B12
>> shots. Eating the worst way to get B12,
>
>
> No, it's not.
>

> For those with chronic deficiencies, including vegans.
>
>> The theory is that modern hygiene has reduced the leels of B12 found
>> in foods.
>
>
Human faeces can contain significant B12. A study has shown that a group
of Iranian vegans obtained adequate B12 from unwashed vegetables which
had been fertilised with human manure. Faecal contamination of
vegetables and other plant foods can make a significant contribution to
dietary needs, particularly in areas where hygiene standards may be low.
This may be responsible for the lack of aneamia due to B12 deficiency in
vegan communities in developing countries.

> This is, like nearly everything you wrote, BS.

No it's not. Unlike you, I acknowledge my typos or errors. A true
scientist or engineer is open to improvement.

As I said, my father has a B12 deficiency. He goes for injections.
He is a lifetime meat/egg/fish eating 79 year old man



I have enough B12 after 30 years of vegan diet. However, to be on the
safe side, I inject B12 several times a year (as prescribed by my
endocrinologist).

vhttp://www.pamrotella.com/health/b12.html
sources are listed


Bacteria: Myth vs. Reality
So how could anyone develop pernicious anemia when B12 intake
requirements are so low, and when the liver stores so much that it takes
years for a deficiency to develop? The reason touted for the B12 myth
is that B12 is found primarily in animal foods. Very few plant foods
provide good sources of B12, they say. In a way that's true, but only
because the source of B12 is not plants OR animals; neither manufacture
their own B12. In the B12 reality, Bacteria are the B12 producers on
which both plants and animals rely. And in humans, that bacteria
doesn't necessarily come from plants -- the mouth, upper intestine, and
lower intestine all contain bacteria that produce B12. However, it's
unknown if enough B12 to meet the daily requirement comes from internal
sources of B12. More likely, they produce some, and the rest comes in
with food and water consumed.

All of the Vitamin B12 in the world ultimately comes from bacteria.
Neither plants nor animals can synthesize it. But plants can be
contaminated with B12 when they come in contact with soil bacteria that
produce it. Animal foods are rich in B12 only because animals eat foods
that are contaminated with it or because bacteria living in an animal's
intestines make it.



Once again, B12 deficiencies are common now among seniors
B12 Screening a Crucial Part of Seniors' Health Care

Source: Tufts University
July 16, 2002 (Reviewed: July 16, 2004)

One of the most common nutrition problems among geriatric patients is
cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency. A recent study found that many cases
may be going undiagnosed, and that adequate intake of supplemental
cobalamin is critical to preventing deficiency. The results are
published in the Journal of the American Geriatrics Society.

Beach Runner wrote:
> Why bother, bit

What?

> usual suspect wrote:
>
>> Beach Runner wrote:
>> <...>
>>
>>> AS I've said, B12 deficiencies are common among seniors, as B12 is
>>> made from yeast.
>>
>> No, Bob, it's synthesized from cobalt by bacteria:
>> http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html
>
> Introduction
> Vitamin B12 is a member of the vitamin B complex. It contains cobalt,
> and so is also known as cobalamin.
>
> It is exclusively synthesised by bacteria and is found primarily in
> meat, eggs and dairy products.

IT IS EXCLUSIVELY SYNTHESISED BY *BACTERIA*, NOT by yeast as you lied.

> There has been considerable research into proposed plant sources of
> vitamin B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds, and algae such as
> spirulina have all been suggested as containing significant B12.

SUGGESTED, not proven.

> However, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is
> likely to be unavailable to humans and so these foods should not be
> relied upon as safe sources.

....LIKELY TO BE UNAVAILABLE TO HUMANS AND SO THESE FOODS SHOULD NOT BE
RELIED UPON AS SAFE SOURCES.

> Many vegan foods are supplemented with B12.

Foods are not vegans. Vegans are orthorexic nitwits who believe in
animal rights. Very few foods suitable for vegetarians are supplemented
with B12.

> Vitamin B12 is necessary for the synthesis of red blood cells, the
> maintenance of the nervous system, and growth and development in
> children. Deficiency can cause anaemia. Vitamin B12 neuropathy,
> involving the degeneration of nerve fibres and irreversible neurological
> damage, can also occur
>
>>> My 79 year old bike riding fisherman, meat eater has to get B12
>>> shots. Eating the worst way to get B12,

Note your father's age. One of the groups at risk of B12 deficiency is
the elderly. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Vitamin B12 deficiency is more common in the elderly than in
younger people, with around 15 per cent of elderly men and women
affected. This is usually because of decreased absorption due to
reduced production of intrinsic factor or to a stomach disorder
known as atrophic gastritis.
http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/...amin_b12_1.php

Older adults may be low in vitamin B12 according to some newer
studies, even though the usual blood studies do not show the
characteristic anemia of B12 deficiency also known as cobalamin
deficiency. Unfortunately, permanent nerve damage can occur
before any telltale pernicious anemia symptoms appear with their
abnormal red blood cell size, shape and number and low serum
levels of cobalamin.
http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/humannutrition/_timely/B12.htm

See also:
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/171/3/251
http://tinyurl.com/9rv7x

His diet is irrelevant. What bothers me, though, is you wouldn't give
your father rides to go fishing or whatever and force him to ride a
bike. Some son you are.

>> No, it's not.
>
>> For those with chronic deficiencies, including vegans.
>>
>>> The theory is that modern hygiene has reduced the leels of B12 found
>>> in foods.
>
> Human faeces can contain significant B12.

"I'm not gonna eat it. You eat it"

"No, I'm not gonna eat it. You eat it."

"Hey! Let Mikey try it. He hates everything!"

> This may be responsible for the lack of aneamia due to B12 deficiency in
> vegan communities in developing countries.

That's not the same as saying that modern hygiene reduces levels of B12
in food -- which is a *categorical* claim. All that can be said is we in
the West don't shit on our food.

>> This is, like nearly everything you wrote, BS.
>
> No it's not.

Yes, it is.

> As I said, my father has a B12 deficiency.

He's old.

> He goes for injections.

Which is appropriate for old people with chronic B12 deficiency.

> He is a lifetime meat/egg/fish eating 79 year old man

And he's elderly -- at risk of atrophic gastritis.

> I have enough B12 after 30 years of vegan diet.

You have your father's genetics. You will likely have the same kind of
deficiency for the same reason when you're 79.

> However, to be on the
> safe side, I inject B12 several times a year (as prescribed by my
> endocrinologist).

I'll bet those B12 injections are directly responsible for your having
"enough B12" irrespective of your diet.

> vhttp://www.pamrotella.com/

This is a personal website with links to a variety of ALTERNATIVE
information sites. It is not mainstream, it is not scientific, and it is
not acceptable.

<...>
> Once again, B12 deficiencies are common now among seniors
> B12 Screening a Crucial Part of Seniors' Health Care
>
> Source: Tufts University
> July 16, 2002 (Reviewed: July 16, 2004)
>
> One of the most common nutrition problems among geriatric patients is
> cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency. A recent study found that many cases
> may be going undiagnosed, and that adequate intake of supplemental
> cobalamin is critical to preventing deficiency. The results are
> published in the Journal of the American Geriatrics Society.

Which is why your father requires B12 shots, dummy. Why don't you buy
him a car? You should be ashamed of yourself.

usual suspect wrote:
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>> Why bother, bit
>
>
> What?
>
>> usual suspect wrote:
>>
>>> Beach Runner wrote:
>>> <...>
>>>
>>>> AS I've said, B12 deficiencies are common among seniors, as B12 is
>>>> made from yeast.
>>>
>>>
>>> No, Bob, it's synthesized from cobalt by bacteria:
>>> http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html
>>
>>
>> Introduction
>> Vitamin B12 is a member of the vitamin B complex. It contains cobalt,
>> and so is also known as cobalamin.
>>
>> It is exclusively synthesised by bacteria and is found primarily in
>> meat, eggs and dairy products.
>
>
> IT IS EXCLUSIVELY SYNTHESISED BY *BACTERIA*, NOT by yeast as you lied.
>
>> There has been considerable research into proposed plant sources of
>> vitamin B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds, and algae such as
>> spirulina have all been suggested as containing significant B12.
>
>
> SUGGESTED, not proven.
>
>> However, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods
>> is likely to be unavailable to humans and so these foods should not be
>> relied upon as safe sources.
>
>
> ...LIKELY TO BE UNAVAILABLE TO HUMANS AND SO THESE FOODS SHOULD NOT BE
> RELIED UPON AS SAFE SOURCES.
>
>> Many vegan foods are supplemented with B12.
>
>
> Foods are not vegans. Vegans are orthorexic nitwits who believe in
> animal rights. Very few foods suitable for vegetarians are supplemented
> with B12.
>
>> Vitamin B12 is necessary for the synthesis of red blood cells, the
>> maintenance of the nervous system, and growth and development in
>> children. Deficiency can cause anaemia. Vitamin B12 neuropathy,
>> involving the degeneration of nerve fibres and irreversible
>> neurological damage, can also occur
>>
>>>> My 79 year old bike riding fisherman, meat eater has to get B12
>>>> shots. Eating the worst way to get B12,
>
>
> Note your father's age. One of the groups at risk of B12 deficiency is
> the elderly. Coincidence? I don't think so.
>
> Vitamin B12 deficiency is more common in the elderly than in
> younger people, with around 15 per cent of elderly men and women
> affected. This is usually because of decreased absorption due to
> reduced production of intrinsic factor or to a stomach disorder
> known as atrophic gastritis.
> http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/...amin_b12_1.php
>
> Older adults may be low in vitamin B12 according to some newer
> studies, even though the usual blood studies do not show the
> characteristic anemia of B12 deficiency also known as cobalamin
> deficiency. Unfortunately, permanent nerve damage can occur
> before any telltale pernicious anemia symptoms appear with their
> abnormal red blood cell size, shape and number and low serum
> levels of cobalamin.
> http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/humannutrition/_timely/B12.htm
>
> See also:
> http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/171/3/251
> http://tinyurl.com/9rv7x
>
> His diet is irrelevant. What bothers me, though, is you wouldn't give
> your father rides to go fishing or whatever and force him to ride a
> bike. Some son you are.
>
>>> No, it's not.
>>
>>
>>> For those with chronic deficiencies, including vegans.
>>>
>>>> The theory is that modern hygiene has reduced the leels of B12 found
>>>> in foods.
>>
>>
>> Human faeces can contain significant B12.
>
>
> "I'm not gonna eat it. You eat it"
>
> "No, I'm not gonna eat it. You eat it."
>
> "Hey! Let Mikey try it. He hates everything!"
>
>> This may be responsible for the lack of aneamia due to B12 deficiency
>> in vegan communities in developing countries.
>
>
> That's not the same as saying that modern hygiene reduces levels of B12
> in food -- which is a *categorical* claim. All that can be said is we in
> the West don't shit on our food.
>
>>> This is, like nearly everything you wrote, BS.
>>
>>
>> No it's not.
>
>
> Yes, it is.
>
>> As I said, my father has a B12 deficiency.
>
>
> He's old.
>
>> He goes for injections.
>
>
> Which is appropriate for old people with chronic B12 deficiency.
>
>> He is a lifetime meat/egg/fish eating 79 year old man
>
>
> And he's elderly -- at risk of atrophic gastritis.
>
>> I have enough B12 after 30 years of vegan diet.
>
>
> You have your father's genetics. You will likely have the same kind of
> deficiency for the same reason when you're 79.
>
>> However, to be on the safe side, I inject B12 several times a year (as
>> prescribed by my endocrinologist).
>
>
> I'll bet those B12 injections are directly responsible for your having
> "enough B12" irrespective of your diet.
>
>> vhttp://www.pamrotella.com/
>
>
> This is a personal website with links to a variety of ALTERNATIVE
> information sites. It is not mainstream, it is not scientific, and it is
> not acceptable.
>
> <...>
>
>> Once again, B12 deficiencies are common now among seniors
>> B12 Screening a Crucial Part of Seniors' Health Care
>>
>> Source: Tufts University
>> July 16, 2002 (Reviewed: July 16, 2004)
>>
>> One of the most common nutrition problems among geriatric patients is
>> cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency. A recent study found that many
>> cases may be going undiagnosed, and that adequate intake of
>> supplemental cobalamin is critical to preventing deficiency. The
>> results are published in the Journal of the American Geriatrics Society.
>
>
> Which is why your father requires B12 shots, dummy. Why don't you buy
> him a car? You should be ashamed of yourself.


Interesting. My father credits with keeping him alive by buying him a
bike, riding it from Manhattan to LI and then teaching him to use it.
He developed it as a daily habit.

When we were children, we went fishing. I later came to feel much
suffering for the dying animals.

For many years my father was a furrier. Now he thinks it's a
throwback. His first step was refusing to work on endangered species.
Russian Wolf would for example come listed as Coyote. He refused to
touch it.

No he's not a vegetarian, but to kill and animal just to wear it's skin
he thinks is disgusting. He also has artery disease. If all his bike
riding hadn't kept him in good shape, the doctor says he wouldn't have
survived bypass surgery. Maybe if he hadn't eaten so much meat over the
years, he wouldn't have needed bypass surgery because he certainly ate
fresh fish. He agrees that all these years he wish he had listened to me.

And, I believe in choice. He took my son on fishing trips so they could
share that relationship. My son wouldn't eat the fish, but my cat sure
appreciated filleted gourmet fish.

I later bought him a bike more suited to his age, arthritis, and position.


How dare you insult the relationship I have with my father. That was a
mean thing to say just to be mean.

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
...
>
>



snip usual vegan wannbe spew...


>
> No he's not a vegetarian, but to kill and animal just to wear
> it's skin he thinks is disgusting.
=========================
ROTFLMAO But it's perfectly OK to kill them and leave them to
rot for your entertainment, eh hypocrite? You really are this
stupid, aren't you?

btw, where's you water calculations, killer?









snip rest6 of spew...

Beach Runner wrote:
>>> Why bother, bit
>>
>> What?

This is like trying to carry on a conversation with Lassie, but at least
Lassie could get the point across that Timmy was in danger. WTF were you
trying to say?

>>> usual suspect wrote:
>>>
>>>> Beach Runner wrote:
>>>> <...>
>>>>
>>>>> AS I've said, B12 deficiencies are common among seniors, as B12 is
>>>>> made from yeast.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> No, Bob, it's synthesized from cobalt by bacteria:
>>>> http://www.vegsoc.org/info/b12.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Introduction
>>> Vitamin B12 is a member of the vitamin B complex. It contains cobalt,
>>> and so is also known as cobalamin.
>>>
>>> It is exclusively synthesised by bacteria and is found primarily in
>>> meat, eggs and dairy products.
>>
>>
>>
>> IT IS EXCLUSIVELY SYNTHESISED BY *BACTERIA*, NOT by yeast as you lied.

Established: you lied.

>>> There has been considerable research into proposed plant sources of
>>> vitamin B12. Fermented soya products, seaweeds, and algae such as
>>> spirulina have all been suggested as containing significant B12.
>>
>> SUGGESTED, not proven.
>>
>>> However, the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods
>>> is likely to be unavailable to humans and so these foods should not
>>> be relied upon as safe sources.
>>
>> ...LIKELY TO BE UNAVAILABLE TO HUMANS AND SO THESE FOODS SHOULD NOT BE
>> RELIED UPON AS SAFE SOURCES.
>>
>>> Many vegan foods are supplemented with B12.
>>
>> Foods are not vegans. Vegans are orthorexic nitwits who believe in
>> animal rights. Very few foods suitable for vegetarians are
>> supplemented with B12.
>>
>>> Vitamin B12 is necessary for the synthesis of red blood cells, the
>>> maintenance of the nervous system, and growth and development in
>>> children. Deficiency can cause anaemia. Vitamin B12 neuropathy,
>>> involving the degeneration of nerve fibres and irreversible
>>> neurological damage, can also occur
>>>
>>>>> My 79 year old bike riding fisherman, meat eater has to get B12
>>>>> shots. Eating the worst way to get B12,
>>
>> Note your father's age. One of the groups at risk of B12 deficiency is
>> the elderly. Coincidence? I don't think so.
>>
>> Vitamin B12 deficiency is more common in the elderly than in
>> younger people, with around 15 per cent of elderly men and women
>> affected. This is usually because of decreased absorption due to
>> reduced production of intrinsic factor or to a stomach disorder
>> known as atrophic gastritis.
>>
>> http://www.althealth.co.uk/services/...amin_b12_1.php
>>
>> Older adults may be low in vitamin B12 according to some newer
>> studies, even though the usual blood studies do not show the
>> characteristic anemia of B12 deficiency also known as cobalamin
>> deficiency. Unfortunately, permanent nerve damage can occur
>> before any telltale pernicious anemia symptoms appear with their
>> abnormal red blood cell size, shape and number and low serum
>> levels of cobalamin.
>> http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/humannutrition/_timely/B12.htm
>>
>> See also:
>> http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/content/full/171/3/251
>> http://tinyurl.com/9rv7x
>>
>> His diet is irrelevant. What bothers me, though, is you wouldn't give
>> your father rides to go fishing or whatever and force him to ride a
>> bike. Some son you are.
>>
>>>> No, it's not.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> For those with chronic deficiencies, including vegans.
>>>>
>>>>> The theory is that modern hygiene has reduced the leels of B12
>>>>> found in foods.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Human faeces can contain significant B12.
>>
>>
>>
>> "I'm not gonna eat it. You eat it"
>>
>> "No, I'm not gonna eat it. You eat it."
>>
>> "Hey! Let Mikey try it. He hates everything!"
>>
>>> This may be responsible for the lack of aneamia due to B12 deficiency
>>> in vegan communities in developing countries.
>>
>>
>>
>> That's not the same as saying that modern hygiene reduces levels of
>> B12 in food -- which is a *categorical* claim. All that can be said is
>> we in the West don't shit on our food.
>>
>>>> This is, like nearly everything you wrote, BS.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> No it's not.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, it is.
>>
>>> As I said, my father has a B12 deficiency.
>>
>>
>>
>> He's old.
>>
>>> He goes for injections.
>>
>>
>>
>> Which is appropriate for old people with chronic B12 deficiency.
>>
>>> He is a lifetime meat/egg/fish eating 79 year old man
>>
>>
>>
>> And he's elderly -- at risk of atrophic gastritis.
>>
>>> I have enough B12 after 30 years of vegan diet.
>>
>>
>>
>> You have your father's genetics. You will likely have the same kind of
>> deficiency for the same reason when you're 79.
>>
>>> However, to be on the safe side, I inject B12 several times a year
>>> (as prescribed by my endocrinologist).
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll bet those B12 injections are directly responsible for your having
>> "enough B12" irrespective of your diet.
>>
>>> vhttp://www.pamrotella.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> This is a personal website with links to a variety of ALTERNATIVE
>> information sites. It is not mainstream, it is not scientific, and it
>> is not acceptable.
>>
>> <...>
>>
>>> Once again, B12 deficiencies are common now among seniors
>>> B12 Screening a Crucial Part of Seniors' Health Care
>>>
>>> Source: Tufts University
>>> July 16, 2002 (Reviewed: July 16, 2004)
>>>
>>> One of the most common nutrition problems among geriatric patients is
>>> cobalamin (vitamin B12) deficiency. A recent study found that many
>>> cases may be going undiagnosed, and that adequate intake of
>>> supplemental cobalamin is critical to preventing deficiency. The
>>> results are published in the Journal of the American Geriatrics Society.
>>
>>
>>
>> Which is why your father requires B12 shots, dummy. Why don't you buy
>> him a car? You should be ashamed of yourself.
>
> Interesting.

No, it's pathetic. You should take better care of your elderly father.

> When we were children, we went fishing.

So what.

> I later came to feel much
> suffering for the dying animals.

I don't care about your girlishly emotive guilt-ridden conscience. Those
fish were food. You ate them without objection at the time. The only
difference between now and then is you've become urbanized and effeminate.

> For many years my father was a furrier.

It's ironic that your childhood was funded by dead animals.

> No he's not a vegetarian,

At least he has that going for him.

> And, I believe in choice.

No, you do not:

The giving of soda and excess proteins to children
should be outlawed...
Authoritarian Bob: http://tinyurl.com/avv4u

You demand "radical change" after admitting you don't even know how
serious global warming is. You're an authoritarian zealot. That's all.


> I later bought him a bike more suited to his age, arthritis, and position.

You should buy him a car.

> How dare you insult the relationship I have with my father.

How dare you mistreat and neglect the care of your father, Bob.

> > When we were children, we went fishing.
>
> So what.
>
> > I later came to feel much
> > suffering for the dying animals.
>
> I don't care about your girlishly emotive guilt-ridden conscience. Those
> fish were food. You ate them without objection at the time. The only
> difference between now and then is you've become urbanized and effeminate.

Interesting. You seem to have a
strong fear of being seen as girlish
or effeminate. You attribute
sympathetic emotions to females
only, yet both genders are
equally able to feel them. Is this
in any way connected to your
fear of feeling your homosexual
urges (as seen in previous posts
about what feeling you get from
wrestling)?




--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/

Scented Nectar wrote:
>>>When we were children, we went fishing.
>>
>>So what.
>>
>>
>>>I later came to feel much
>>>suffering for the dying animals.
>>
>>I don't care about your girlishly emotive guilt-ridden conscience. Those
>>fish were food. You ate them without objection at the time. The only
>>difference between now and then is you've become urbanized and effeminate.
>

So caring about suffering is female? I did express my feelings.
>
> Interesting. You seem to have a
> strong fear of being seen as girlish
> or effeminate. You attribute
> sympathetic emotions to females
> only, yet both genders are
> equally able to feel them. Is this
> in any way connected to your
> fear of feeling your homosexual
> urges (as seen in previous posts
> about what feeling you get from
> wrestling)?
>
>
>
>

Beach Runner wrote:

>
>
> Scented Nectar wrote:
>
>>>> When we were children, we went fishing.
>>>
>>>
>>> So what.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I later came to feel much
>>>> suffering for the dying animals.
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't care about your girlishly emotive guilt-ridden conscience. Those
>>> fish were food. You ate them without objection at the time. The only
>>> difference between now and then is you've become urbanized and
>>> effeminate.
>>
>>
>
> So caring about suffering is female? I did express my feelings.

Suffering is neither female nor male.
>
>>
>> Interesting. You seem to have a
>> strong fear of being seen as girlish
>> or effeminate. You attribute
>> sympathetic emotions to females
>> only, yet both genders are
>> equally able to feel them. Is this
>> in any way connected to your
>> fear of feeling your homosexual
>> urges (as seen in previous posts
>> about what feeling you get from
>> wrestling)?
>>

I never wrote I had homosexual urges. US said my son was one that
wrested. I never wrestled.
>>
>>
>>

"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Beach Runner wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Scented Nectar wrote:
> >
> >>>> When we were children, we went fishing.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> So what.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> I later came to feel much
> >>>> suffering for the dying animals.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I don't care about your girlishly emotive guilt-ridden conscience.
Those
> >>> fish were food. You ate them without objection at the time. The only
> >>> difference between now and then is you've become urbanized and
> >>> effeminate.
> >>
> >>
> >
> > So caring about suffering is female? I did express my feelings.
>
> Suffering is neither female nor male.
> >
> >>
> >> Interesting. You seem to have a
> >> strong fear of being seen as girlish
> >> or effeminate. You attribute
> >> sympathetic emotions to females
> >> only, yet both genders are
> >> equally able to feel them. Is this
> >> in any way connected to your
> >> fear of feeling your homosexual
> >> urges (as seen in previous posts
> >> about what feeling you get from
> >> wrestling)?
> >>
>
> I never wrote I had homosexual urges. US said my son was one that
> wrested. I never wrestled.

It's ok, I was referring to Useless's
urges. He must have them to be so
adamant that it's a *** sport. To
most viewers and participants, it's
nothing whatsoever connected to
sexuality.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/

Scented Liar wrote:
> It's ok,

No, it isn't.

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> Scented Liar wrote:
> > It's ok,
>
> No, it isn't.

I wasn't talking to you, just about
you and your homophobia. You
know what the general concensus
is, don't you? You have suppressed
*** urges if you feel that way about
wrestling.

Speaking of which, is that why you
haven't enlisted yet? You're afraid
of how you would react being so
close to so many men exclusively?


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/

Skanky Nutball wrote:
>>>When we were children, we went fishing.
>>
>>So what.
>>
>>
>>>I later came to feel much
>>>suffering for the dying animals.
>>
>>I don't care about your girlishly emotive guilt-ridden conscience. Those
>>fish were food. You ate them without objection at the time. The only
>>difference between now and then is you've become urbanized and effeminate.
>
> Interesting.

Maybe to a clueless agoraphobic urbanite like you, but not to normal people.

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
. ..
> Skanky Nutball wrote:
> >>>When we were children, we went fishing.
> >>
> >>So what.
> >>
> >>
> >>>I later came to feel much
> >>>suffering for the dying animals.
> >>
> >>I don't care about your girlishly emotive guilt-ridden conscience. Those
> >>fish were food. You ate them without objection at the time. The only
> >>difference between now and then is you've become urbanized and
effeminate.
> >
> > Interesting.
>
> Maybe to a clueless agoraphobic urbanite like you, but not to normal
people.

The only normal males who find
wrestling to be sexy also happen
to be ***. You know, if you have
such a fear of nonconformity and
being effeminate, just put an ad in
the paper looking for a SL/SA.
That's a straight looking, straight
acting 'friend'. You could act like
'buds' and no one will be the wiser.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/

Orthorexia-Scented Liar wrote:
>>>It's ok,
>>
>>No, it isn't.
>
> I

It isn't okay, Skanky.

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> Orthorexia-Scented Liar wrote:
> >>>It's ok,
> >>
> >>No, it isn't.
> >
> > I
>
> It isn't okay, Skanky.

I take it this is a "touchy" subject
for you.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/

Orthorexia-Scented Liar wrote:
>>>>>It's ok,
>>>>
>>>>No, it isn't.
>>>
>>>I
>>
>>It isn't okay, Skanky.
>
> I take

We know already, you're a 43 year-old parasite.

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
...
> Orthorexia-Scented Liar wrote:
> >>>>>It's ok,
> >>>>
> >>>>No, it isn't.
> >>>
> >>>I
> >>
> >>It isn't okay, Skanky.
> >
> > I take
>
> We know already, you're a 43 year-old parasite.

You're using off topic accusations
as a dodge re talking about your
homophobia. Veerrryy interesting.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/

Orthorexia-Scented Liar wrote:
>>>>>>>It's ok,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No, it isn't.
>>>>>
>>>>>I
>>>>
>>>>It isn't okay, Skanky.
>>>
>>>I take
>>
>>We know already, you're a 43 year-old parasite.
>
> You're using

No, you are, you agoraphobic pot-head.

"usual suspect" > wrote in message
news
> Orthorexia-Scented Liar wrote:
> >>>>>>>It's ok,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>No, it isn't.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>I
> >>>>
> >>>>It isn't okay, Skanky.
> >>>
> >>>I take
> >>
> >>We know already, you're a 43 year-old parasite.
> >
> > You're using
>
> No, you are, you agoraphobic pot-head.

You're using off topic accusations
as a dodge re talking about your
homophobia. Veerrryy interesting.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/

Skanky Nutball wrote:
>>>>>>>>>It's ok,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>No, it isn't.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I
>>>>>>
>>>>>>It isn't okay, Skanky.
>>>>>
>>>>>I take
>>>>
>>>>We know already, you're a 43 year-old parasite.
>>>
>>>You're using
>>
>>No, you are, you agoraphobic pot-head.
>
> You're using

No, you are, you carless home-bound agoraphobic pot-head.