Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #16 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-08-2005, 07:03 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Bumbling Twit can't figure out how to read a thread so he replied to
himself:
You don't need to know much nutrition to go veg*n

Just like one doesn't need to know much nutrition to go anorexic or


bulimic or to go any other eating disorder.

Eating vegetarian is not an eating disorder. That is a lie.

Veganism IS an eating disorder. You want a website? Try this one,
numb nuts:

www.orthorexia.com


He calls sever underweight a desease. He does not mention veganism


Itís great to eat healthy food, and most of us could benefit by
paying a little more attention to what we eat. However, some
people have the opposite problem: they take the concept of
healthy eating to such an extreme that it becomes an obsession.
I call this state of mind orthorexia nervosa: literally,
"fixation on righteous eating."
http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=katef

He continues on that page with a series of questions, nearly all of
which are apropos to veganism:

Do you wish that occasionally you could just eat, and not think
about whether itís good for you? Has your diet made you
socially isolated? Is it impossible to imagine going through a
whole day without paying attention to your diet, and just living
and loving? Does it sound beyond your ability to eat a meal
prepared with love by your mother Ė one single meal Ė and not
try to control what she serves you? Do you have trouble
remembering that love, and joy, and play and creativity are more
important than food?

Consider the question asked in the "party ideas" thread, and one of the
replies to me in it. Ordinary people don't have a dilemma when it comes
to having a party. They provide a variety of foods which should appeal
to most people. Here we have a vegan who insists others adopt her eating
habit (disorder) when visiting her new home or apartment. It's nothing
at all like someone who doesn't like a particular kind of food, it's a
blanket objection to entire groups of food most people in our society
don't find objectionable.

I politely stated that I cater to my guests' tastes rather than my own
in situations like that. There are certain foods which I don't like, but
I know my guests do. *I*'m entertaining *them*. They wouldn't be
entertained by off-putting statements about my likes or dislikes, nor
should they be subjected to disapproval of their own choices of food (or
drink; I provide alcohol at most of my parties and gatherings, but I
don't drink).

The reply from Ron was typical of the vegan eating disorder: "So you go
out and slaughter a steer just to appease the blood hunger of your guests?"

Mentally disturbed people like Ron believe they should subject guests in
their homes to irrational lectures about veganism. Not only do they
forbid themselves of certain foods, they deny it to others and impugn
them incessantly for even wanting it.

They have disorders their pursuit is so extreme that they, and those
around them (e.g., party guests), don't enjoy themselves. They're too
busy trying to avoid micrograms of animal parts that enjoyment is
completely lost.

See also:
http://www.compulsiveeating.com/vege...disorder.ht m


"Family, friends, clinicians, and vegetarians themselves, need to know
that the potential exists for vegetarianism and veganism to mask an
eating disorder," Morand said.


Correct.

This doesn't mean vegetarianism is the
cause of an eating disorder, or that people shouldn't adopt a vegetarian
lifestyle, but it may be a way for the individual who is struggling with
food and weight issues to justify her or his restrictive eating behaviours.

He does not call it a eating disorder.


Dr Bratman does.

There are plenty of healthy vegans.


Irrelevant to the issue at hand. Veganism is an eating disorder.

There are more unhealthy meat eaters dieing of cancer and heart desease.


Vegans die of cancer and heart disease, too, dummy.

...

  #17 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-08-2005, 07:07 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Beach Runner wrote:
this is my story... i am 20 years old and live in new zealand...

i had been gradually phasing out meat and developing a taste for the
foods that are now staple.


Interesting. I hope the nitwit John Coleman is reading this so he can
take you to task for having to develop a taste for your new austere
diet since he believes it's the other way around.

i went vegetarian on the 25 of may and made a complete conversion
about this time last month.


Conversion is apropos: veganism is a religion.


Only in that it shows concern for other life forms.


No, in its blind, rigid adherence to dogma. You have your rules about
what can and can't be eaten, and then your phony claims that you're
saving animals simply by not eating them. That's completely false. You
only don't eat cattle, pigs, chickens, etc. You still contribute to many
animal deaths and injuries from the agricultural practices required to
grow your grains, legumes, and produce.
  #18 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-08-2005, 10:10 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"usual suspect" wrote in message
.. .
Bumbling Twit can't figure out how to read a thread so he replied to
himself:
You don't need to know much nutrition to go veg*n

Just like one doesn't need to know much nutrition to go anorexic or


bulimic or to go any other eating disorder.

Eating vegetarian is not an eating disorder. That is a lie.

Veganism IS an eating disorder. You want a website? Try this one,
numb nuts:

www.orthorexia.com


He calls sever underweight a desease. He does not mention veganism


Itís great to eat healthy food, and most of us could benefit by
paying a little more attention to what we eat. However, some
people have the opposite problem: they take the concept of
healthy eating to such an extreme that it becomes an obsession.
I call this state of mind orthorexia nervosa: literally,
"fixation on righteous eating."
http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=katef

He continues on that page with a series of questions, nearly all of
which are apropos to veganism:

Do you wish that occasionally you could just eat, and not think
about whether itís good for you? Has your diet made you
socially isolated? Is it impossible to imagine going through a
whole day without paying attention to your diet, and just living
and loving? Does it sound beyond your ability to eat a meal
prepared with love by your mother Ė one single meal Ė and not
try to control what she serves you? Do you have trouble
remembering that love, and joy, and play and creativity are more
important than food?


What the above describes is
simply the situation of someone
who is the only vegan for miles
around. Of course they are
going to feel out of place and
awkward when having to deal
with what others try to insist on
feeding them. That's only part
of the above though. This bull
about love, joy, etc. makes it
sound like automatically a
person is doing something
wrong if they don't give them
priority over their food, as
though all can't exist at the
same level of priority as each
other. It makes it sound like
there is something wrong
with anyone who pays a lot of
attention to their diet.

Consider the question asked in the "party ideas" thread, and one of the
replies to me in it. Ordinary people don't have a dilemma when it comes
to having a party. They provide a variety of foods which should appeal
to most people. Here we have a vegan who insists others adopt her eating
habit (disorder) when visiting her new home or apartment. It's nothing
at all like someone who doesn't like a particular kind of food, it's a
blanket objection to entire groups of food most people in our society
don't find objectionable.


If a vegan is holding a party
that you are attending, of course
you should expect to be served
vegan food. Just as when you
go to a meat eater's party, you
should expect that if you're
vegan, you might or might not
find stuff to eat (eat a bit before
going out just in case).

I politely stated that I cater to my guests' tastes rather than my own
in situations like that. There are certain foods which I don't like, but
I know my guests do. *I*'m entertaining *them*. They wouldn't be
entertained by off-putting statements about my likes or dislikes, nor
should they be subjected to disapproval of their own choices of food (or
drink; I provide alcohol at most of my parties and gatherings, but I
don't drink).


You need meat and booze to
lure people to your parties.
Considering your personality,
I'm not surprised.

The reply from Ron was typical of the vegan eating disorder: "So you go
out and slaughter a steer just to appease the blood hunger of your

guests?"

Mentally disturbed people like Ron believe they should subject guests in
their homes to irrational lectures about veganism. Not only do they
forbid themselves of certain foods, they deny it to others and impugn
them incessantly for even wanting it.


Who said anything about lecturing
guests?

They have disorders their pursuit is so extreme that they, and those
around them (e.g., party guests), don't enjoy themselves. They're too
busy trying to avoid micrograms of animal parts that enjoyment is
completely lost.


And you know this because.....
how many vegan parties have
you attended?

See also:

http://www.compulsiveeating.com/vege...disorder.ht m

"Family, friends, clinicians, and vegetarians themselves, need to know
that the potential exists for vegetarianism and veganism to mask an
eating disorder," Morand said.


Correct.

This doesn't mean vegetarianism is the
cause of an eating disorder, or that people shouldn't adopt a vegetarian
lifestyle, but it may be a way for the individual who is struggling with
food and weight issues to justify her or his restrictive eating

behaviours.

He does not call it a eating disorder.


Dr Bratman does.

There are plenty of healthy vegans.


Irrelevant to the issue at hand. Veganism is an eating disorder.


According to the questions you
quoted near the top of this page,
if a vegan is still feeling love and
joy etc. in her/his life, then they
don't have this (non medically
accepted) disease.

There are more unhealthy meat eaters dieing of cancer and heart desease.


Vegans die of cancer and heart disease, too, dummy.


Not as much. You know that too.
The reason you used to eat
vegan was for health and
aesthetics. Even now you only
have a little fish infrequently.
The rest is vegan food you eat.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/



  #19 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-08-2005, 10:39 PM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

You said he called it an eating disorder. He did not. He said that
people with eating disorders can hide behind a vegan diet. A far cry.

And as far as people take unusual attention to food, have you hear the
term "Kosher"? Are they sick too? They pay special attention to their
food.

What about Italian cooks who delight in their foods? Are they also sick?




Scented Nectar wrote:

"usual suspect" wrote in message
.. .

Bumbling Twit can't figure out how to read a thread so he replied to
himself:

You don't need to know much nutrition to go veg*n

Just like one doesn't need to know much nutrition to go anorexic or


bulimic or to go any other eating disorder.

Eating vegetarian is not an eating disorder. That is a lie.

Veganism IS an eating disorder. You want a website? Try this one,
numb nuts:

www.orthorexia.com

He calls sever underweight a desease. He does not mention veganism


Itís great to eat healthy food, and most of us could benefit by
paying a little more attention to what we eat. However, some
people have the opposite problem: they take the concept of
healthy eating to such an extreme that it becomes an obsession.
I call this state of mind orthorexia nervosa: literally,
"fixation on righteous eating."
http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=katef

He continues on that page with a series of questions, nearly all of
which are apropos to veganism:

Do you wish that occasionally you could just eat, and not think
about whether itís good for you? Has your diet made you
socially isolated? Is it impossible to imagine going through a
whole day without paying attention to your diet, and just living
and loving? Does it sound beyond your ability to eat a meal
prepared with love by your mother Ė one single meal Ė and not
try to control what she serves you? Do you have trouble
remembering that love, and joy, and play and creativity are more
important than food?



What the above describes is
simply the situation of someone
who is the only vegan for miles
around. Of course they are
going to feel out of place and
awkward when having to deal
with what others try to insist on
feeding them. That's only part
of the above though. This bull
about love, joy, etc. makes it
sound like automatically a
person is doing something
wrong if they don't give them
priority over their food, as
though all can't exist at the
same level of priority as each
other. It makes it sound like
there is something wrong
with anyone who pays a lot of
attention to their diet.


Consider the question asked in the "party ideas" thread, and one of the
replies to me in it. Ordinary people don't have a dilemma when it comes
to having a party. They provide a variety of foods which should appeal
to most people. Here we have a vegan who insists others adopt her eating
habit (disorder) when visiting her new home or apartment. It's nothing
at all like someone who doesn't like a particular kind of food, it's a
blanket objection to entire groups of food most people in our society
don't find objectionable.



If a vegan is holding a party
that you are attending, of course
you should expect to be served
vegan food. Just as when you
go to a meat eater's party, you
should expect that if you're
vegan, you might or might not
find stuff to eat (eat a bit before
going out just in case).


I politely stated that I cater to my guests' tastes rather than my own
in situations like that. There are certain foods which I don't like, but
I know my guests do. *I*'m entertaining *them*. They wouldn't be
entertained by off-putting statements about my likes or dislikes, nor
should they be subjected to disapproval of their own choices of food (or
drink; I provide alcohol at most of my parties and gatherings, but I
don't drink).



You need meat and booze to
lure people to your parties.
Considering your personality,
I'm not surprised.


The reply from Ron was typical of the vegan eating disorder: "So you go
out and slaughter a steer just to appease the blood hunger of your


guests?"

Mentally disturbed people like Ron believe they should subject guests in
their homes to irrational lectures about veganism. Not only do they
forbid themselves of certain foods, they deny it to others and impugn
them incessantly for even wanting it.



Who said anything about lecturing
guests?


They have disorders their pursuit is so extreme that they, and those
around them (e.g., party guests), don't enjoy themselves. They're too
busy trying to avoid micrograms of animal parts that enjoyment is
completely lost.



And you know this because.....
how many vegan parties have
you attended?


See also:


http://www.compulsiveeating.com/vege...disorder.ht m

"Family, friends, clinicians, and vegetarians themselves, need to know
that the potential exists for vegetarianism and veganism to mask an
eating disorder," Morand said.


Correct.


This doesn't mean vegetarianism is the
cause of an eating disorder, or that people shouldn't adopt a vegetarian
lifestyle, but it may be a way for the individual who is struggling with
food and weight issues to justify her or his restrictive eating


behaviours.

He does not call it a eating disorder.


Dr Bratman does.


There are plenty of healthy vegans.


Irrelevant to the issue at hand. Veganism is an eating disorder.



According to the questions you
quoted near the top of this page,
if a vegan is still feeling love and
joy etc. in her/his life, then they
don't have this (non medically
accepted) disease.


There are more unhealthy meat eaters dieing of cancer and heart desease.


Vegans die of cancer and heart disease, too, dummy.



Not as much. You know that too.
The reason you used to eat
vegan was for health and
aesthetics. Even now you only
have a little fish infrequently.
The rest is vegan food you eat.


  #20 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-08-2005, 10:43 PM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default



usual suspect wrote:

Bumbling Twit wrote:

You don't need to know much nutrition to go veg*n


Just like one doesn't need to know much nutrition to go anorexic or
bulimic or to go any other eating disorder.


Eating vegetarian is not an eating disorder. That is a lie.


Veganism IS an eating disorder. You want a website? Try this one,
numb nuts:

www.orthorexia.com

See also:
http://www.compulsiveeating.com/vege...disorder.ht m




Anyone who calls vegan an eating disorder



It is.

in the vegan group



It's true in the vegan group, it's true outside the vegan group. That's
the nature of truth, nitwit.

is like spreading fire in a crowded circus.



Here's the liar's site

The CEDRIC Centre. Community eating disorder and related issues
counselling.


* Home
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* Resources
o CEDRIC Workbooks
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o Doctors and Eating Disorders Survey
o Market Research Survey
* Newsletter

Vegetarianism or Politically Correct Eating Disorder?

Written by Brooke Finnigan for The National Eating Disorder Information
Bulletin

Whether vegetarian for health, religion or for ethics, research exists
about the benefits of a plant based diet. Recent research also shows
that a growing number of people, especially women in their late teens,
are adopting vegetarian and vegan diets in order to lose weight,
maintain low body weight, and mask restrictive eating patterns.

A study from the University of Minnesota found teen vegetarians are more
likely to have eating disorders than non-vegetarians. In this study,
vegetarians were more likely to contemplate and attempt suicide, and
vegetarian males were noted as an especially high risk group for
unhealthy weight control practices. The research indicated that teens
who were already susceptible to emotional difficulties were drawn to
vegetarianism as a means to lose weight and fit in, but that
vegetarianism itself had no correlation with emotional difficulties.

In a nother study, conducted at California State University-Northridge,
researchers found college women who claimed to be vegetarians had a
significantly greater risk of developing eating disorders than their
meat-eating peers. The overlap between eating disorders and
vegetarianism occurs because vegetarianism is a way for men and women to
openly control their food choices, without attracting negative attention
to their behaviour. Also, many believe that restricting meat from a diet
will lead to weight loss, believes Michelle Morand, founder of The
CEDRIC Centre, an eating disorder counselling centre in Victoria, B.C.

"Family, friends, clinicians, and vegetarians themselves, need to know
that the potential exists for vegetarianism and veganism to mask an
eating disorder," Morand said. This doesn't mean vegetarianism is the
cause of an eating disorder, or that people shouldn't adopt a vegetarian
lifestyle, but it may be a way for the individual who is struggling with
food and weight issues to justify her or his restrictive eating behaviours.

Carol Tickner, R.D. Nutrition Therapist with the Eating Disorders
Program in the Capital Region cites two possibilities for the increase
in popularity of vegetarianism. " Vegetarianism has been promoted as a
healthy way of managing weight. With weight being such a focus in our
society, it makes sense to some as a way of managing weight, and health,
at the same time," she says. "For those teenagers who have disordered
eating tendencies, becoming vegetarian can be a way of trying to respond
to a changing body, (weight gain due to puberty), in a healthy way, vs.
dieting like their friends." However, this is just dieting for
weight-loss in another form.

In many ways, beliefs about animal protein in diets versus plant-only
diets are similar to the messages we hear about physical appearance in
North American culture. In both cases, we are given conflicting
messages. In one breath we're admonished not to judge a book by its
cover, and in the next, we can never be too rich or too thin . In a
similar vein, we say one thing about the humane treatment of animals,
and treat our pets as mini-humans, but frequently farm animals for food
under dreadful conditions. This cultural hypocrisy is increasingly in
the media with stories of unsanitary conditions and contamination of
foods. And, at this stage in their lives, young adults are acutely aware
of societal doubletalk.

"Teenagers are searching for meaning and a way of being in the world
that expresses their individuality. This is exactly what they are meant
to do at this stage in development." says Morand. "They're in the
process of individuation, separating from their parents, developing and
testing their own value systems, and learning about who they are. By
choosing a plant-based diet, they're choosing to exist on the planet in
a different way than most of their parents' generation. For many
teenagers, becoming a vegetarian may be the first informed, adult
decision they make."
Why Go Veggie?

Vegeterian diets can r educe risk from certain cancers by up to 40%,
decrease the possibility of heart disease by over 30%, and lower high
blood pressure, and cholesterol levels.

A plant-based diet can also be environmentally friendly. By eating a
diet rich in fruits and vegetables, less packaging and processing is
needed. On the other hand, as popularity for vegetarian diets increases,
more packaged foods are available to supplement and complement the
traditional vegetarian diet, which means more waste from packaging.

Some religions advocate a vegetarian lifestyle. Some people choose a
vegetarian diet over an omnivorous one out of ethical concerns for
animals. Many vegetarians are concerned about the wide spread usage of
factory farming, growth hormones, and abuse of animals designated for
human consumption. It is also cheaper to consume a vegetarian diet than
to include animal products in one's shopping basket.

" There is an increased societal awareness about where our food comes
from and more people taking an interest in how animals are treated. This
was especially brought to the forefront last year with mad cow disease
and the chicken flu," says Tickner.

In addition to eschewing meat and animal by-products in their diets, a
large number of vegetarians purchase animal friendly cosmetics, and
cleaning products that haven't been tested on animals, as well as
alternative sources for leather, silk and wool products.
The Incredible Lightness of Being Vegetarian

Adherents of a vegetarian lifestyle have always touted the health
benefits, and in recent years, as coverage of the obesity crisis
continues to influence public policy, some organizations have linked a
plant based diet with slenderness. Given our cultural preference and
pressure around thinness, (which is seen as an indication of a person's
worthiness in North American culture), it seems inevitable that
vegetarianism would be adopted as yet another tool in the quest for
weight loss.

In his book, The Obesity Myth , author Paul Campos argues that we use
body weight as an indication of "moral fitness". Culturally, we idealize
people who have managed to sublimate their appetites and become, or
remain, slender. In this puritanical atmosphere, fatness isn't just a
body type description, but an alleged indication of how a person really
is: undisciplined, stupid, and unworthy. Fatness is one of the last
socially sanctioned forms of discrimination in our culture, and avoiding
fatness is often used as an added allure to becoming vegetarian.

On vegetarian websites, in magazines and books, weight loss is often
included as a benefit of switching to a plant based diet.

PETA, (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals), in particular,
correlates a vegetarian diet with being thin. Recent advertising
campaigns have included "jokes" about fat passengers needing two airline
seats as a reason to go vegetarian,and equating letting children eat
meat to child abuse.

While PETA is notorious for its overstated style of linking health, body
weight, and vegetarianism, most other groups are subtler. But the
connection between health and weight continues to thrive in the minds of
many people. In fact, for many, health and thinness are synonymous.

The reality is, it's possible to be a healthy, happy person, at any
size, vegetarian or not. And creating false categories for health based
on body size is one way in which the health and weight loss industry
overlap, and, reap sizable profits.

A person's weight will tend to fall into a certain range that the body
is happiest and healthiest at, called our "set point" or "natural"
weight, and will tend to want to return to this weight range despite
strict calorie restriction or excessive exercise. Many other factors
affect a person weight, not only the type of food they eat, but the
quantity of food they eat, the amount of activity they get, and their
genetics.

A healthy vegetarian, Carol Tickner explains, is someone who "t akes the
time to ensure that they are getting all the nutrients their body needs.
This person would be eating vegetarian sources of protein at all meals
and making sure they find alternate sources of protein, which is
required to maintain a healthy metabolism, repair and build new tissue,
and boost immunity, calcium, iron, zinc, and Vitamin D & B12 as well as
omega-3 fatty acids."

Morand adds, "To me, a healthy vegetarian is someone at peace with their
decision to avoid animal products, and is committed to enjoying foods
that nurture their bodies and spirits. A healthy person is someone who
has energy, listens to his or her body, and feeds it accordingly."
Feeding the soul

Morand has worked with many young women over the years who have used
vegetarianism to cloak an eating disorder. "Typically, they don't want
to worry people in their lives, and saying they can't eat something
because of their moral commitment to vegetarianism is a safe way to
avoid conflict or suspicion, especially since many people aren't
educated on the topic."

"Some are in denial about their behavior, or if they have just begun
down the path of disordered eating, they are still in that period where
they believe they are "benefiting" from the behavior. They may be
getting positive attention and reinforcement from their family and peers
for their commitment and/or weight loss." In any case, Morand continues,
"it's important to remember that the eating disorder, whether masked by
vegetarianism or not, is a coping mechanism, and the person struggling
has adopted it to camouflage other, more painful issues in their lives.
They aren't lying or manipulating, they're just trying to cope in the
best way they know how."

It isn't necessary to give up vegetarianism in order to recover from an
eating disorder. However, an honest exploration of the motivations
behind the choice to cut animal products from one's diet is fundamental
to the recovery process. If someone is truly dedicated to a vegan or
vegetarian lifestyle for ethical reasons, then he/she has to be true to
themselves and honor their decision. But, if the original impetus was
weight loss or gaining a sense of control over their relationship with
food, the greatest gift that they can give to themselves is to
authentically explore what may be currently taking place in their lives,
or what may have occurred in the past, to lead them to feel that they
lack control to the extent that they are seeking it in their
relationship with food. Then they are in a position to solve the real
problem, and no longer expend their energy trying to control the symptom.



* Neumark-Sztainer D., et al. Adolescent vegetarians : a behavioral
profile of a school-based population in Minnesota . Archives of
Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine 1997 Aug; 151(8): 833-838.
* Klop, Sheree, et al Self-reported vegetarianism may be a marker
for college women at risk for disordered eating, Archives of Journal of
American Dietetic Association , 2003, June, 103:745-747
* http://www.vegsoc.org/health/

It hardly calls vegetarianism an eating disorder, but can be used to
hide one.

Non sequitur.



  #21 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 07-08-2005, 11:03 PM
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Beach Runner" wrote in message
. ..
You said he called it an eating disorder. He did not. He said that
people with eating disorders can hide behind a vegan diet. A far cry.


You're right. The thing is though,
he thinks that all vegans have it.
His quotes don't word it that way,
but Usual has made it very clear
that he considers all vegans to
be 'orthorexic'.

And as far as people take unusual attention to food, have you hear the
term "Kosher"? Are they sick too? They pay special attention to their
food.

What about Italian cooks who delight in their foods? Are they also sick?


Usual himself has bragged about
being a good cook and therefore
must enjoy it. Maybe he's sick.


Scented Nectar wrote:

"usual suspect" wrote in message
.. .

Bumbling Twit can't figure out how to read a thread so he replied to
himself:

You don't need to know much nutrition to go veg*n

Just like one doesn't need to know much nutrition to go anorexic or

bulimic or to go any other eating disorder.

Eating vegetarian is not an eating disorder. That is a lie.

Veganism IS an eating disorder. You want a website? Try this one,
numb nuts:

www.orthorexia.com

He calls sever underweight a desease. He does not mention veganism

Itís great to eat healthy food, and most of us could benefit by
paying a little more attention to what we eat. However, some
people have the opposite problem: they take the concept of
healthy eating to such an extreme that it becomes an obsession.
I call this state of mind orthorexia nervosa: literally,
"fixation on righteous eating."
http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=katef

He continues on that page with a series of questions, nearly all of
which are apropos to veganism:

Do you wish that occasionally you could just eat, and not think
about whether itís good for you? Has your diet made you
socially isolated? Is it impossible to imagine going through a
whole day without paying attention to your diet, and just living
and loving? Does it sound beyond your ability to eat a meal
prepared with love by your mother Ė one single meal Ė and not
try to control what she serves you? Do you have trouble
remembering that love, and joy, and play and creativity are more
important than food?



What the above describes is
simply the situation of someone
who is the only vegan for miles
around. Of course they are
going to feel out of place and
awkward when having to deal
with what others try to insist on
feeding them. That's only part
of the above though. This bull
about love, joy, etc. makes it
sound like automatically a
person is doing something
wrong if they don't give them
priority over their food, as
though all can't exist at the
same level of priority as each
other. It makes it sound like
there is something wrong
with anyone who pays a lot of
attention to their diet.


Consider the question asked in the "party ideas" thread, and one of the
replies to me in it. Ordinary people don't have a dilemma when it comes
to having a party. They provide a variety of foods which should appeal
to most people. Here we have a vegan who insists others adopt her eating
habit (disorder) when visiting her new home or apartment. It's nothing
at all like someone who doesn't like a particular kind of food, it's a
blanket objection to entire groups of food most people in our society
don't find objectionable.



If a vegan is holding a party
that you are attending, of course
you should expect to be served
vegan food. Just as when you
go to a meat eater's party, you
should expect that if you're
vegan, you might or might not
find stuff to eat (eat a bit before
going out just in case).


I politely stated that I cater to my guests' tastes rather than my own
in situations like that. There are certain foods which I don't like, but
I know my guests do. *I*'m entertaining *them*. They wouldn't be
entertained by off-putting statements about my likes or dislikes, nor
should they be subjected to disapproval of their own choices of food (or
drink; I provide alcohol at most of my parties and gatherings, but I
don't drink).



You need meat and booze to
lure people to your parties.
Considering your personality,
I'm not surprised.


The reply from Ron was typical of the vegan eating disorder: "So you go
out and slaughter a steer just to appease the blood hunger of your


guests?"

Mentally disturbed people like Ron believe they should subject guests in
their homes to irrational lectures about veganism. Not only do they
forbid themselves of certain foods, they deny it to others and impugn
them incessantly for even wanting it.



Who said anything about lecturing
guests?


They have disorders their pursuit is so extreme that they, and those
around them (e.g., party guests), don't enjoy themselves. They're too
busy trying to avoid micrograms of animal parts that enjoyment is
completely lost.



And you know this because.....
how many vegan parties have
you attended?


See also:



http://www.compulsiveeating.com/vege...disorder.ht m

"Family, friends, clinicians, and vegetarians themselves, need to know
that the potential exists for vegetarianism and veganism to mask an
eating disorder," Morand said.

Correct.


This doesn't mean vegetarianism is the
cause of an eating disorder, or that people shouldn't adopt a

vegetarian
lifestyle, but it may be a way for the individual who is struggling

with
food and weight issues to justify her or his restrictive eating


behaviours.

He does not call it a eating disorder.

Dr Bratman does.


There are plenty of healthy vegans.

Irrelevant to the issue at hand. Veganism is an eating disorder.



According to the questions you
quoted near the top of this page,
if a vegan is still feeling love and
joy etc. in her/his life, then they
don't have this (non medically
accepted) disease.


There are more unhealthy meat eaters dieing of cancer and heart

desease.

Vegans die of cancer and heart disease, too, dummy.



Not as much. You know that too.
The reason you used to eat
vegan was for health and
aesthetics. Even now you only
have a little fish infrequently.
The rest is vegan food you eat.




  #22 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-08-2005, 01:15 PM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

I sent to the site and posted what was said. Unusual Suspects lied. It
did not call vegetarianism an eating disorder. In fact, he said people
could go on becoming vegetarianism.

It said people can hide eating disorders behind vegetarianism.

Unusual Suspects is a liar.

You can not trust any of his URLs or even facts. He is a sick
homophobic individual.

usual suspect wrote:

Bumbling Twit wrote:

You don't need to know much nutrition to go veg*n


Just like one doesn't need to know much nutrition to go anorexic or
bulimic or to go any other eating disorder.


Eating vegetarian is not an eating disorder. That is a lie.


Veganism IS an eating disorder. You want a website? Try this one,
numb nuts:

www.orthorexia.com

See also:
http://www.compulsiveeating.com/vege...disorder.ht m




Anyone who calls vegan an eating disorder



It is.

in the vegan group



It's true in the vegan group, it's true outside the vegan group. That's
the nature of truth, nitwit.

is like spreading fire in a crowded circus.



Non sequitur.

  #23 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-08-2005, 02:15 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Skanky wrote:
You don't need to know much nutrition to go veg*n

Just like one doesn't need to know much nutrition to go anorexic or


bulimic or to go any other eating disorder.

Eating vegetarian is not an eating disorder. That is a lie.

Veganism IS an eating disorder. You want a website? Try this one,
numb nuts:

www.orthorexia.com

He calls sever underweight a desease. He does not mention veganism


Itís great to eat healthy food, and most of us could benefit by
paying a little more attention to what we eat. However, some
people have the opposite problem: they take the concept of
healthy eating to such an extreme that it becomes an obsession.
I call this state of mind orthorexia nervosa: literally,
"fixation on righteous eating."
http://www.orthorexia.com/index.php?page=katef

He continues on that page with a series of questions, nearly all of
which are apropos to veganism:

Do you wish that occasionally you could just eat, and not think
about whether itís good for you? Has your diet made you
socially isolated? Is it impossible to imagine going through a
whole day without paying attention to your diet, and just living
and loving? Does it sound beyond your ability to eat a meal
prepared with love by your mother Ė one single meal Ė and not
try to control what she serves you? Do you have trouble
remembering that love, and joy, and play and creativity are more
important than food?


What the above describes is
simply the situation of someone
who is the only vegan for miles
around.


No, it does not. It describes a situation in which an individual's
preoccupation with healthful eating becomes an unhealthful obsession.
Whether that person has others around her with a similar eating disorder
is irrelevant. They're equally dysfunctional. Birds of a feather.

Of course they are
going to feel out of place and
awkward when having to deal
with what others try to insist on
feeding them.


The more you write, Skanky, the more I know you're orthorexic. The
operative part isn't *feeling awkward*, it's that someone even feels
someone else is insisting on feeding her something she considers "bad."
This is true regardless of what someone's repulsion is: fat, sweets,
meat, or micrograms of animal-derived ingredients. In that sense,
veganism is the apex of orthorexia because the disordered eater is
trying to avoid foods which may not even be of animal origin; and, if
the ingredients are of animal origin, they're in such small quantity
that virulent objections are irrational and completely out of place.

That's only part
of the above though. This bull
about love, joy, etc. makes it
sound like automatically a
person is doing something
wrong if they don't give them
priority over their food, as
though all can't exist at the
same level of priority as each
other.


Food offered out of love, such as when a mother cooks a meal or treat
for her child, should not be rejected because it contains small amounts
of ingredients which the child would never use. The child is not
shunning the objectionable ingredients, but the love with which such
food is offered. Similarly, one is very disturbed when she obsesses over
the inclusion of certain ingredients rather than over enjoyment of the
food. That is the disorder, Skanky. It's an obsession, and it's unhealthy.

It makes it sound like
there is something wrong
with anyone who pays a lot of
attention to their diet.


There *is* something wrong with irrational obsessions like vegans have
in rooting out every microgram of animal ingredient -- even to the point
of eliminating ingredients which one isn't sure are of animal origin.

Do you think this "buzz" clown is mentally healthy with his obesession
about whether or not honey might be in his incense? And how about his
response where he seems to indicate he's more concerned about bees than
his own health? Nevermind. I remember your response to information about
the toxins in your marijuana smoke.

Consider the question asked in the "party ideas" thread, and one of the
replies to me in it. Ordinary people don't have a dilemma when it comes
to having a party. They provide a variety of foods which should appeal
to most people. Here we have a vegan who insists others adopt her eating
habit (disorder) when visiting her new home or apartment. It's nothing
at all like someone who doesn't like a particular kind of food, it's a
blanket objection to entire groups of food most people in our society
don't find objectionable.


If a vegan is holding a party
that you are attending, of course
you should expect to be served
vegan food.


If vegans will be the only ones in attendance. Some party that would be.

Just as when you
go to a meat eater's party, you
should expect that if you're
vegan, you might or might not
find stuff to eat (eat a bit before
going out just in case).


I've never gone to any party where I couldn't find something I could eat.

I politely stated that I cater to my guests' tastes rather than my own
in situations like that. There are certain foods which I don't like, but
I know my guests do. *I*'m entertaining *them*. They wouldn't be
entertained by off-putting statements about my likes or dislikes, nor
should they be subjected to disapproval of their own choices of food (or
drink; I provide alcohol at most of my parties and gatherings, but I
don't drink).


You need meat and booze to
lure people to your parties.


No, I don't.

Considering your personality,
I'm not surprised.


I have more friends than you, and I've no fears which prevent me from
being with any number of them at any given time.

The reply from Ron was typical of the vegan eating disorder: "So you go
out and slaughter a steer just to appease the blood hunger of your
guests?"


Mentally disturbed people like Ron believe they should subject guests in
their homes to irrational lectures about veganism. Not only do they
forbid themselves of certain foods, they deny it to others and impugn
them incessantly for even wanting it.


Who said anything about lecturing
guests?


That goes hand-in-hand with veganism. It's not enough to say, "No,
thanks." Vegans ALWAYS condemn and impugn others for their dietary choices.

They have disorders their pursuit is so extreme that they, and those
around them (e.g., party guests), don't enjoy themselves. They're too
busy trying to avoid micrograms of animal parts that enjoyment is
completely lost.


And you know this because.....
how many vegan parties have
you attended?


Quite a few, and I was so put off by the holier-than-thou attitudes at
the Vegetarian Network of Austin pot-luck I attended that I refuse to
ever go to one again. I see they haven't changed:
All are invited to our potlucks for fun and fellowship with
other vegetarians and those interested in learning more about
it. Families, couples and single folks are welcome!

Please bring a vegan (no dairy or other animal products) dish to
serve 8 to share. Also, no diningware is provided, so please
bring a plate and utensils.

In respect of those folks with allergies, please refrain from
wearing perfume or heavy scents.
http://www.vegnetaustin.org/

See also:


http://www.compulsiveeating.com/vege...disorder.ht m

"Family, friends, clinicians, and vegetarians themselves, need to know
that the potential exists for vegetarianism and veganism to mask an
eating disorder," Morand said.


Correct.


This doesn't mean vegetarianism is the
cause of an eating disorder, or that people shouldn't adopt a vegetarian
lifestyle, but it may be a way for the individual who is struggling with
food and weight issues to justify her or his restrictive eating


behaviours.

He does not call it a eating disorder.


Dr Bratman does.


There are plenty of healthy vegans.


Irrelevant to the issue at hand. Veganism is an eating disorder.


According to the questions you
quoted near the top of this page,
if a vegan is still feeling love and
joy etc. in her/his life, then they
don't have this (non medically
accepted) disease.


No, and I'm not surprised your reading comprehension is so poor that you
would say that. Pay attention to this: "Do you wish that occasionally
you could just eat, and not think about whether itís good for you?"
Similarly, one could ask a vegan, "Do you wish that occasionally you
could just eat, and not think about whether or not it has micrograms of
animal parts?" And the part about eating A SINGLE MEAL cooked by your
mother is also important. Not a "vegan" meal cooked by your mother, but
A SINGLE MEAL without any consideration for the ingredients but only for
the love your mother is showing you. Vegans have a rigidly unhealthy
obsession with food. It is an eating disorder.

There are more unhealthy meat eaters dieing of cancer and heart desease.


Vegans die of cancer and heart disease, too, dummy.


Not as much.


Ipse dixit. What's the death rate of meat-eaters? 100%. What's the death
rate of veg-ns? 100%. Both groups die of the same diseases; some meat
eaters, particularly those indisciminate in their choices, tend to die a
bit younger. Veg-ns, though, can also die younger because they're at
higher risk of certain cancers. Show the whole picture, Skanky, and
there's really no difference especially if you compare apples to apples
by comparing healthful diets which include meat to healthful vegetarian
diets. (You've always refused to do that.)

You know that too.


I know enough to distinguish between healthful diets which include meat
and unhealthful ones which exclude meat.

The reason you used to eat
vegan was for health and
aesthetics. Even now you only
have a little fish infrequently.


The fish I've eaten was healthful. I've not turned down meals prepared
for me by family members or my friends just because they use foods I
normally don't. I don't obsess about my food like you do.

The rest is vegan food you eat.


Food is not vegan. Food is food. Like vegans, you have an unhealthy
obsession with food. You're not a "vegan wannabe," you're an "eating
disorder wannabe." You have orthorexia, Skanky.
  #24 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-08-2005, 02:35 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Beach Runner wrote:
You said he called it an eating disorder. He did not. He said that
people with eating disorders can hide behind a vegan diet. A far cry.


Strawman. His definition would include veganism.

And as far as people take unusual attention to food, have you hear the
term "Kosher"?


Yes.

Are they sick too?


Yes.

They pay special attention to their food.


And to the extent that observant Jews have two sets of cookware and a
list of rules about what can and can't be eaten together, it is orthorexic.

What about Italian cooks who delight in their foods? Are they also sick?


Ahh, "delighting" is different from nitpicking. Italians don't have a
set of rules like kashrut or veganism whereby they eliminate or obsess
about what can or can't be eaten, either alone or with other foods.

Your top-posting is poor netiquette.

...
  #25 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-08-2005, 02:52 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Scented Nectar wrote:
You said he called it an eating disorder. He did not. He said that
people with eating disorders can hide behind a vegan diet. A far cry.


You're right.


No, he isn't.

The thing is though,
he thinks that all vegans have it.


They do.

His quotes don't word it that way,


I believe I've written that all vegans are orthorexic.

...[Vegans are] also out of touch with reality (which is one
reason why I suspect AR/veganism are symptoms of deeper mental
illness; perhaps it will one day be used diagnostically as a
syndrome capturing those who are anti-social, out of touch with
reality, and who have a peculiar eating disorder -- the latter
being orthorexia).
usual suspect: Jun 5 2004

Imbalanced people don't make balanced decisions. That's why
people become "vegans" in the first place.
usual suspect: Dec 4 2004

Veganism is a mental illness. I realize it isn't treated as
such at the moment, but it eventually will be. It's an extreme
form of orthorexia.
usual suspect: Jun 12 2004

but Usual has made it very clear
that he considers all vegans to
be 'orthorexic'.


Correct, and they are.

And as far as people take unusual attention to food, have you hear the
term "Kosher"? Are they sick too? They pay special attention to their
food.

What about Italian cooks who delight in their foods? Are they also sick?


Usual himself has bragged about
being a good cook and therefore
must enjoy it. Maybe he's sick.


I am a good cook and I do enjoy cooking. I have a balanced approach,
though, about what I'll eat, etc., which distinguishes me from
orthorexics and vegans (who are all, 100%, orthorexics).

...


  #26 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-08-2005, 03:04 PM
Derek
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 13:15:51 GMT, usual suspect wrote:

I've not turned down meals prepared for me by family
members or my friends just because they use foods I
normally don't.


You DO turn down such meals prepared FOR YOU by
your friends by giving them away behind their backs after
pretending to gratefully accept them, you condescending
queer, and, if offered meat by family members, you get
aggressive and tell them where to shove it.

"My sweet, elderly neighbor bakes me a rum cake every
year for Christmas despite knowing I don't consume eggs,
milk, saturated fats, rum, or sweets. I kindly smile, thank
her for such a sweet gift, and let my friends and/or family
enjoy it (and do they ever). If my brother, though, were to
ask me if I want some venison jerky, I'd just tell him where
he could put it."
usual suspect Jul 15 2003 http://tinyurl.com/7p2xg


  #27 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-08-2005, 03:10 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Claire's fat Uncle Dreck wrote:
I've not turned down meals prepared for me by family
members or my friends just because they use foods I
normally don't.


You DO turn down such meals


No, I don't refuse anything. I accepted the rum cake and shared it with
friends and family who like that kind of thing. As far as my brother
goes, the issue was framed with "IF." He knows I wouldn't eat it, so he
won't offer it. We respect each other that way, something which appears
to be foreign in your Jerry Springer-esque dysfunctional family. Did you
hear David's belly slapping against Belinda's?
  #28 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-08-2005, 03:29 PM
Derek
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:10:47 GMT, usual suspect wrote:
Derek wrote:

I've not turned down meals prepared for me by family
members or my friends just because they use foods I
normally don't.


You DO turn down such meals


No, I don't refuse anything.


You TURNED THEM DOWN, queer boy; something
you claimed never to have done. You lied.

I accepted the rum cake and shared it with
friends and family who like that kind of thing.


You do not share it; you give it ALL away, liar. You
turn it down behind her back every year, and while
not having the decency to explain why you want to
reject her offer, you make a fool out of her instead
and use her foolishness and good will as a handy
anecdote.

As far as my brother goes, the issue was framed
with "IF." He knows I wouldn't eat it, so he won't
offer it.


Yet IF he did, you would tell him where to shove
it. Here's the quote you don't want SN to read;

unsnip
"My sweet, elderly neighbor bakes me a rum cake every
year for Christmas despite knowing I don't consume eggs,
milk, saturated fats, rum, or sweets. I kindly smile, thank
her for such a sweet gift, and let my friends and/or family
enjoy it (and do they ever). If my brother, though, were to
ask me if I want some venison jerky, I'd just tell him where
he could put it."
usual suspect Jul 15 2003 http://tinyurl.com/7p2xg


  #29 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-08-2005, 03:32 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Claire's shit-stirring fat uncle Dreck wrote:
I've not turned down meals prepared for me by family
members or my friends just because they use foods I
normally don't.

You DO turn down such meals


No, I don't refuse anything.


You TURNED THEM DOWN,


No, fatso, I don't refuse anything. I gratefully accepted the rum cake
and shared it with friends and family who like that kind of thing. As
far as my brother goes, the issue was framed with "IF." He knows I
wouldn't eat it, so he won't even offer it. We respect each other that
way, something which appears to be foreign in your Jerry Springer-esque
dysfunctional family. I find it amusing that you object more to sharing
a rum cake than sharing your wife with your own twin brother. Did you
hear David's belly slapping against Belinda's?
  #30 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 08-08-2005, 03:39 PM
Derek
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 14:32:17 GMT, usual suspect wrote:

Derek wrote:
I've not turned down meals prepared for me by family
members or my friends just because they use foods I
normally don't.

You DO turn down such meals

No, I don't refuse anything.


You TURNED THEM DOWN,


No


Your quote proves that you did and still do, so it's
no surprise to see you snip it away at every turn
and dismiss it.

unsnip
"My sweet, elderly neighbor bakes me a rum cake every
year for Christmas despite knowing I don't consume eggs,
milk, saturated fats, rum, or sweets. I kindly smile, thank
her for such a sweet gift, and let my friends and/or family
enjoy it (and do they ever). If my brother, though, were to
ask me if I want some venison jerky, I'd just tell him where
he could put it."
usual suspect Jul 15 2003 http://tinyurl.com/7p2xg

unsnip
I accepted the rum cake and shared it with
friends and family who like that kind of thing.


You do not share it; you give it ALL away, liar. You
turn it down behind her back every year, and while
not having the decency to explain why you want to
reject her offer, you make a fool out of her instead
and use her foolishness and good will as a handy
anecdote.
endsnip

I just knew you'd snip that away, you pathetic little
queer.


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