Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #1 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-07-2005, 11:35 AM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default My final posting on the subject

Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs. He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a vegan life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.

  #2 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-07-2005, 12:45 PM
usual suspect
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Beach Runner wrote:
Usual suspects


Singular: usual suspect.

has done nothing but


straighten you out. I know you don't appreciate it very much, but I'm
not going away just because you want a free pass to spread your
distortions, lies, mistakes, typos, and propaganda. I can't in good
conscience allow that. I shall respond to your brazen lies.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.


IOW, you can't handle the truth. Big baby.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.


Note that nobody ever sided with you when you asked for a show of vegan
hands before, nitwit...
  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-07-2005, 01:09 PM
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Beach Runner" wrote in message
. ..
Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs. He
has stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a useless
news group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a
vegan life, but his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.

=======================
No you don't. You welcome spew, propaganda and lys...


Why is it you cannot put your so-called advanced degrees to work
critically, fool?
Where's the answers to your lys about water? Still ducking
those questions, eh hypocite?
Your stupidity is showing, and you now cut and run? What a hoot!
Obviously your diet is affecting your few remaining
braincells.


  #4 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-07-2005, 04:30 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:35:40 GMT, Beach Runner wrote:

Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs. He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a vegan life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.


∑ Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.
What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:

Tires, Surgical sutures, Matches, Soaps, Photographic film,
Cosmetics, Shaving cream, Paints, Candles, Crayon/Chalk,
Toothpaste, Deodorants, Mouthwash, Paper, Upholstery,
Floor waxes, Glass, Water Filters, Rubber, Fertilizer,
Antifreeze, Ceramics, Insecticides, Insulation, Linoleum,
Plastic, Textiles, Blood factors, Collagen, Heparin, Insulin,
Pancreatin, Thrombin, Vasopressin, Vitamin B-12, Asphalt,
auto and jet lubricants, outboard engine oil, brake fluid,
contact-lens care products, glues, sunscreens and sunblocks,
dental floss, hairspray, inks, Solvents, Biodegradable
Detergents, Herbicides, Gelatin Capsules, Bandage Strips,
Combs and Toothbrushes, Emery Boards and Cloth, Adhesive Tape,
Laminated Wood Products, Plywood and Paneling, Wallpaper and
Wallpaper Paste, Cellophane Wrap and Tape, Adhesive Tape,
Abrasivesl, Steel Ball Bearings

The meat industry provides life for the animals that it
slaughters, and the animals live and die in it as they do
in any other habitat. They also depend on it for their
lives like the animals in any other habitat. If people
consume animal products from animals they think are
raised in decent ways, they will be promoting life for
more such animals in the future.
From the life and death of a thousand pound grass raised
steer and whatever he happens to kill during his life, people
get over 500 pounds of human consumable meat...that's well
over 500 servings of meat. From a grass raised dairy cow people
get thousands of dairy servings. Due to the influence of farm
machinery, and *icides, and in the case of rice the flooding and
draining of fields, one serving of soy or rice based product is
likely to involve more animal deaths than hundreds of servings
derived from grass raised animals. Grass raised animal products
contribute to fewer wildlife deaths, better wildlife habitat, and
better lives for livestock than soy or rice products. ∑
  #5 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-07-2005, 07:03 PM
nemo
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Beach Runner" wrote in message
. ..
Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs. He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a vegan life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.


Well said. Those are precisely the reasons why I, a Vegan of 37 years
standing, sitting and lying down, do not bother with this group very often.

A few recipes now and again wouldn't hurt either.

Nemo




  #6 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-07-2005, 07:03 PM
nemo
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"usual suspect" wrote in message
...
Beach Runner wrote:
Usual suspects


Singular: usual suspect.

has done nothing but


straighten you out. I know you don't appreciate it very much, but I'm
not going away just because you want a free pass to spread your
distortions, lies, mistakes, typos, and propaganda. I can't in good
conscience allow that. I shall respond to your brazen lies.

You've been told! So bugger off! Git!


  #7 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-07-2005, 07:10 PM
nemo
 
Posts: n/a
Default


[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:35:40 GMT, Beach Runner wrote:

Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs. He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a vegan life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.


∑ Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.


What part of "To a much lesser extent" don't you understand?

What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:

Same old tosh!

In other words you're saying if you can't stop contributing to the death of
animals 100%, you shouldn't try for, say, 50%, 80% or whatever by not eating
the poor buggers. This is illogical, it's rubbisha dn it's just a wind-up.

So their's gelatin in paper, white sugar is refined using bone charcoal, and
by law just about everything has to be tested using the infamous and largely
ineffective LD50 test, the end is listless.

It's not us Vegan's fault. We do our best and rubbish like yours isn't going
to deflect us from this and iota.


  #8 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-07-2005, 07:48 PM
 
Posts: n/a
Default



nemo wrote:
[email protected] wrote in message ...
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:35:40 GMT, Beach Runner wrote:

Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs. He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a vegan life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.


=B7 Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.


What part of "To a much lesser extent" don't you understand?

What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:

Same old tosh!

In other words you're saying if you can't stop contributing to the death =

of
animals 100%, you shouldn't try for, say, 50%, 80% or whatever by not eat=

ing
the poor buggers. This is illogical, it's rubbisha dn it's just a wind-up.

So their's gelatin in paper, white sugar is refined using bone charcoal, =

and
by law just about everything has to be tested using the infamous and larg=

ely
ineffective LD50 test, the end is listless.

It's not us Vegan's fault. We do our best and rubbish like yours isn't go=

ing
to deflect us from this and iota.



exactly!!

Useless and etter can go to hell.

  #9 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-07-2005, 08:24 PM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default



nemo wrote:

"Beach Runner" wrote in message
. ..

Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs. He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a vegan life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.



Well said. Those are precisely the reasons why I, a Vegan of 37 years
standing, sitting and lying down, do not bother with this group very often.

A few recipes now and again wouldn't hurt either.

Nemo



Thank you. I think he's chased away most vegans. You don't need
recipes, just consume more uncooked fruits, veggies, and especially
leafy greens. If you have a juicer that can help.


Remember I pointed out a son was recruited to wrestle because of he was
the best athlete in his school for his weight. It got him a scholarship
to college. Instead homophobic Usual Suspects spread lies about him.
What a mean person.
  #10 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-07-2005, 09:53 PM
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"nemo" wrote in message
k...

[email protected] wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:35:40 GMT, Beach Runner
wrote:

Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs.
He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a
useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a vegan
life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I
post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.


∑ Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.


What part of "To a much lesser extent" don't you understand?

================
What part of "proof" don't you undestand. You, and no other
vegan hypocrite here on usenet has ever been able to prove your
delusions, killer.




What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:

Same old tosh!

==================
Same old delusions om vegan wannabes...



In other words you're saying if you can't stop contributing to
the death of
animals 100%, you shouldn't try for, say, 50%, 80% or whatever
by not eating
the poor buggers. This is illogical, it's rubbisha dn it's just
a wind-up.

=================
No, it's not what's being said fool. What's being said is that
YOU are not even trying to reduce your bloody footprints.
All you have is a simple rule or your simple mind, 'eat no meat.'
All you do is ocus on what you think others are doing so that you
can ignore actually looking at any options that would really
reduce your impact.



So their's gelatin in paper, white sugar is refined using bone
charcoal, and
by law just about everything has to be tested using the
infamous and largely
ineffective LD50 test, the end is listless.

It's not us Vegan's fault. We do our best and rubbish like
yours isn't going
to deflect us from this and iota.

==================
More lys. You prove with each inane post that you don't even try
to do anywhere near 'your best' hypocrite.
Keep up the good wok provinmg that you have nothing to add that
shows any reduction on your part, killer.







  #11 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 25-07-2005, 09:54 PM
rick
 
Posts: n/a
Default


wrote in message
ups.com...


nemo wrote:
[email protected] wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:35:40 GMT, Beach Runner
wrote:

Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs.
He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a
useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a
vegan life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I
post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.


∑ Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use
of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.


What part of "To a much lesser extent" don't you understand?

What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:

Same old tosh!

In other words you're saying if you can't stop contributing to
the death of
animals 100%, you shouldn't try for, say, 50%, 80% or whatever
by not eating
the poor buggers. This is illogical, it's rubbisha dn it's just
a wind-up.

So their's gelatin in paper, white sugar is refined using bone
charcoal, and
by law just about everything has to be tested using the
infamous and largely
ineffective LD50 test, the end is listless.

It's not us Vegan's fault. We do our best and rubbish like
yours isn't going
to deflect us from this and iota.



exactly!!

Useless and etter can go to hell.
===============
Ahhh, feel the typical vegan compassion. You guys crack me
up!!!





  #12 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 26-07-2005, 02:41 AM
 
Posts: n/a
Default



rick wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...


nemo wrote:
[email protected] wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:35:40 GMT, Beach Runner
wrote:

Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs.
He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a
useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a
vegan life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I
post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.

=B7 Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use
of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.


What part of "To a much lesser extent" don't you understand?

What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:

Same old tosh!

In other words you're saying if you can't stop contributing to
the death of
animals 100%, you shouldn't try for, say, 50%, 80% or whatever
by not eating
the poor buggers. This is illogical, it's rubbisha dn it's just
a wind-up.

So their's gelatin in paper, white sugar is refined using bone
charcoal, and
by law just about everything has to be tested using the
infamous and largely
ineffective LD50 test, the end is listless.

It's not us Vegan's fault. We do our best and rubbish like
yours isn't going
to deflect us from this and iota.



exactly!!

Useless and etter can go to hell.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Ahhh, feel the typical vegan compassion. You guys crack me
up!!!



All right then, go to heaven but just shut yer piehole if you have
nothing positive to say.....and the same goes for your girlfriend
~jonnie~.

  #13 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 26-07-2005, 05:27 AM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

It sounds like e have some Vegans. Are you interested in vegan
discussion? That would be interesting.

The soy research interests me. The rat studies more than got my
curiosity, but no dangers have been shown in human populations,
primate populations, or cultures that eat soy their entire lives.
Never the less, the research is compelling.

What are some vegan sources of B12. I've had mine regularly monitored
(as all vegans do). My blood has great chemistry. When I was a fat
vegan, I had high lipid and bad profiles. Exercise must be part of the
equation. I can only wonder how much worse it would have been if I ate
artery clogging meat.


I will respond to anyone with reasonable, non mean spirited arguments.

As far as environmental issues. there is no question that Bush has done
all he can to let coal produce dirty air, rollback improved mpg
regulations, and build is he worst environmental president in American
history.

He also is a failure as a war leader. Where is Bin Laden? After 250
people died in Iraq he said we won. Over a thousand American's have
died since. We are deeply in debt, (from a president that took over a
surplus).

I'm against the terrorists as much as anyone, but Bush has been totally
ineffective.

He let the navy use sonar that hurts and beaches whales and marine
mammals He is building roads into pristine forests.

They spent more investigating Monica Lewisnksy than Enron Lay and the












Challenger put together.

We need change.

and we have two calamities facing the world, global warming and
anti-biotic resistant bacteria. Our president ignores these critical
issues.

Did Bush win the election?
UIC Prof's Statistical Analysis Casts Doubt on '04 Election Result

Chicago, IL 60607 July 4, 2005

By Gigi Wasz
Gazette news magazine, Chicago

A University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) professor recently
issued a report calling into question the results of the 2004
presidential election.

In the 30-plus page report, Ron Baiman, PhD, of UIC's Institute
of Government and Public Affairs, along with eleven other
colleagues from other prestigious universities, applied
quantitative data to explain the discrepancy between exit poll
projections and votes actually recorded in the November
election and to understand the analysis given by Edison Media
Research & Mitofsky International (E/M), the pollster of record
for the national election.

E/M's poll projections predicted a win for Democrat John Kerry
by 3%, however, when votes were tallied, Republican President
George W. Bush was given the win by 2.5%-the largest
discrepancy in the poll's history. In its post-election
analysis and report, E/M discredited its own poll projections,
claiming the official vote was not corrupted and that "Kerry
voters were more amenable to completing the poll questionnaire
than Bush voters."

"Using their (E/M's) data tables, we demonstrated that their
hypothesis of outspoken Kerry supporters is implausible,"
explained Baiman. "If the polls were faulty because Bush voters
were shy in the presence of Kerry voters and less likely to
cooperate with pollsters, the polls should be the most accurate
in the precincts where Bush voters were in the overwhelming
majority and where exit poll participation was also at its
maximum. What we find is just the opposite. In fact, the mean
exit poll discrepancy was dramatically higher in Bush
strongholds than in Kerry strongholds."

Baiman and his research team then set out to explain the
discrepancy between the national exit poll and the official
vote. They initially targeted random chance or exit poll
errors. Said Baiman, "There have been several methods to
estimate the probability that the national exit polls would be
as different as they were from the national popular vote by
random chance. These estimates range from one in 1,240 to one
in 16.5 million. No matter how one calculates it, the
discrepancy cannot be attributed to chance."

National research shows "exit polling is a well developed
science, informed by half a century of experience and
continually improving methodology," Baiman explained. For
example, E/M samples voters not only for the nationwide exit
poll but for each state's exit poll. Furthermore, the research
team found that the same exit polls accurately projected U.S.
Senate races; both the Presidential and Senate poll results are
derived from the exact same responders.

"If Bush supporters were refusing to fill out the survey as
hypothesized, the accuracy of the exit polls should have been
just as poor in the Senate races as it was in the Presidential
race," the research team charged in its report. According to
Baiman, by ruling out random chance and exit poll errors, the
only other logical explanation would be that the official vote
was corrupted. In its executive summary, the group's report
states, "the many anecdotal reports of voting irregularities
create a context in which the possibility that the overall vote
count was substantially corrupted must be taken seriously." The
report concludes by calling for a thorough investigation and a
"careful, exhaustive recount in key states."

"Our goal is to raise awareness of the exit poll problems and
to highlight the need for broad election reform," commented
Baiman. "The fact that Edison/Mitofsky has not released its raw
data, which would facilitate independent corroboration of its
analysis, is problematic. The biggest problem is not what
Edison/Mitofsky has concluded, but the fact that it is sitting
on its substantive analysis and data and not allowing any other
independent party to look at it. That this is allowed to
continue is a national and media disgrace."

According to a website dedicated to investigating the 2004
Presidential election, www.bushoccupation.com, "To believe that
Bush won the election, you must also believe: that the exit
polls were wrong; that Zogby's [a traditionally accurate
pollster] 5 p.m. election day calls for Kerry winning Ohio and
Florida were wrong...; that incumbent rule #1-undecideds break
for the challenger-was wrong; that the 50% rule-an incumbent
doesn't do better than his final polling-was wrong; that the
approval rating rule-an incumbent with less than 50% approval
will most likely lose the election-was wrong; that it was just
a coincidence that the exit polls were correct where there was
a paper trail and incorrect (+5% for Bush) where there was no
paper trail; that the surge in new young voters had no positive
effect for Kerry; that Kerry did worse than (Al) Gore against
an opponent who lost the support of scores of Republican
newspapers who were for Bush in 2000...."

To learn more about the election analysis by Baiman and his
team of professionals, contact Baiman at .

wrote:


rick wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...


nemo wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message
...

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:35:40 GMT, Beach Runner
wrote:


Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs.
He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a
useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a
vegan life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I
post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.

∑ Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use
of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.

What part of "To a much lesser extent" don't you understand?


What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:


Same old tosh!

In other words you're saying if you can't stop contributing to
the death of
animals 100%, you shouldn't try for, say, 50%, 80% or whatever
by not eating
the poor buggers. This is illogical, it's rubbisha dn it's just
a wind-up.

So their's gelatin in paper, white sugar is refined using bone
charcoal, and
by law just about everything has to be tested using the
infamous and largely
ineffective LD50 test, the end is listless.

It's not us Vegan's fault. We do our best and rubbish like
yours isn't going
to deflect us from this and iota.



exactly!!

Useless and etter can go to hell.
===============
Ahhh, feel the typical vegan compassion. You guys crack me
up!!!




All right then, go to heaven but just shut yer piehole if you have
nothing positive to say.....and the same goes for your girlfriend
~jonnie~.

  #14 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 26-07-2005, 05:32 AM
Beach Runner
 
Posts: n/a
Default

to clarify, i will not respond to usual suspects, he ruins this group

Beach Runner wrote:

It sounds like e have some Vegans. Are you interested in vegan
discussion? That would be interesting.

The soy research interests me. The rat studies more than got my
curiosity, but no dangers have been shown in human populations,
primate populations, or cultures that eat soy their entire lives.
Never the less, the research is compelling.

What are some vegan sources of B12. I've had mine regularly monitored
(as all vegans do). My blood has great chemistry. When I was a fat
vegan, I had high lipid and bad profiles. Exercise must be part of the
equation. I can only wonder how much worse it would have been if I ate
artery clogging meat.


I will respond to anyone with reasonable, non mean spirited arguments.

As far as environmental issues. there is no question that Bush has done
all he can to let coal produce dirty air, rollback improved mpg
regulations, and build is he worst environmental president in American
history.

He also is a failure as a war leader. Where is Bin Laden? After 250
people died in Iraq he said we won. Over a thousand American's have
died since. We are deeply in debt, (from a president that took over a
surplus).

I'm against the terrorists as much as anyone, but Bush has been totally
ineffective.

He let the navy use sonar that hurts and beaches whales and marine
mammals He is building roads into pristine forests.

They spent more investigating Monica Lewisnksy than Enron Lay and the












Challenger put together.

We need change.

and we have two calamities facing the world, global warming and
anti-biotic resistant bacteria. Our president ignores these critical
issues.

Did Bush win the election?
UIC Prof's Statistical Analysis Casts Doubt on '04 Election Result

Chicago, IL 60607 July 4, 2005

By Gigi Wasz
Gazette news magazine, Chicago

A University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) professor recently
issued a report calling into question the results of the 2004
presidential election.

In the 30-plus page report, Ron Baiman, PhD, of UIC's Institute
of Government and Public Affairs, along with eleven other
colleagues from other prestigious universities, applied
quantitative data to explain the discrepancy between exit poll
projections and votes actually recorded in the November
election and to understand the analysis given by Edison Media
Research & Mitofsky International (E/M), the pollster of record
for the national election.

E/M's poll projections predicted a win for Democrat John Kerry
by 3%, however, when votes were tallied, Republican President
George W. Bush was given the win by 2.5%-the largest
discrepancy in the poll's history. In its post-election
analysis and report, E/M discredited its own poll projections,
claiming the official vote was not corrupted and that "Kerry
voters were more amenable to completing the poll questionnaire
than Bush voters."

"Using their (E/M's) data tables, we demonstrated that their
hypothesis of outspoken Kerry supporters is implausible,"
explained Baiman. "If the polls were faulty because Bush voters
were shy in the presence of Kerry voters and less likely to
cooperate with pollsters, the polls should be the most accurate
in the precincts where Bush voters were in the overwhelming
majority and where exit poll participation was also at its
maximum. What we find is just the opposite. In fact, the mean
exit poll discrepancy was dramatically higher in Bush
strongholds than in Kerry strongholds."

Baiman and his research team then set out to explain the
discrepancy between the national exit poll and the official
vote. They initially targeted random chance or exit poll
errors. Said Baiman, "There have been several methods to
estimate the probability that the national exit polls would be
as different as they were from the national popular vote by
random chance. These estimates range from one in 1,240 to one
in 16.5 million. No matter how one calculates it, the
discrepancy cannot be attributed to chance."

National research shows "exit polling is a well developed
science, informed by half a century of experience and
continually improving methodology," Baiman explained. For
example, E/M samples voters not only for the nationwide exit
poll but for each state's exit poll. Furthermore, the research
team found that the same exit polls accurately projected U.S.
Senate races; both the Presidential and Senate poll results are
derived from the exact same responders.

"If Bush supporters were refusing to fill out the survey as
hypothesized, the accuracy of the exit polls should have been
just as poor in the Senate races as it was in the Presidential
race," the research team charged in its report. According to
Baiman, by ruling out random chance and exit poll errors, the
only other logical explanation would be that the official vote
was corrupted. In its executive summary, the group's report
states, "the many anecdotal reports of voting irregularities
create a context in which the possibility that the overall vote
count was substantially corrupted must be taken seriously." The
report concludes by calling for a thorough investigation and a
"careful, exhaustive recount in key states."

"Our goal is to raise awareness of the exit poll problems and
to highlight the need for broad election reform," commented
Baiman. "The fact that Edison/Mitofsky has not released its raw
data, which would facilitate independent corroboration of its
analysis, is problematic. The biggest problem is not what
Edison/Mitofsky has concluded, but the fact that it is sitting
on its substantive analysis and data and not allowing any other
independent party to look at it. That this is allowed to
continue is a national and media disgrace."

According to a website dedicated to investigating the 2004
Presidential election, www.bushoccupation.com, "To believe that
Bush won the election, you must also believe: that the exit
polls were wrong; that Zogby's [a traditionally accurate
pollster] 5 p.m. election day calls for Kerry winning Ohio and
Florida were wrong...; that incumbent rule #1-undecideds break
for the challenger-was wrong; that the 50% rule-an incumbent
doesn't do better than his final polling-was wrong; that the
approval rating rule-an incumbent with less than 50% approval
will most likely lose the election-was wrong; that it was just
a coincidence that the exit polls were correct where there was
a paper trail and incorrect (+5% for Bush) where there was no
paper trail; that the surge in new young voters had no positive
effect for Kerry; that Kerry did worse than (Al) Gore against
an opponent who lost the support of scores of Republican
newspapers who were for Bush in 2000...."

To learn more about the election analysis by Baiman and his
team of professionals, contact Baiman at .

wrote:


rick wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...


nemo wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message
...

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:35:40 GMT, Beach Runner
wrote:


Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs.
He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a
useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a
vegan life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I
post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.


∑ Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use
of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.


What part of "To a much lesser extent" don't you understand?


What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:


Same old tosh!

In other words you're saying if you can't stop contributing to
the death of
animals 100%, you shouldn't try for, say, 50%, 80% or whatever
by not eating
the poor buggers. This is illogical, it's rubbisha dn it's just
a wind-up.

So their's gelatin in paper, white sugar is refined using bone
charcoal, and
by law just about everything has to be tested using the
infamous and largely
ineffective LD50 test, the end is listless.

It's not us Vegan's fault. We do our best and rubbish like
yours isn't going
to deflect us from this and iota.



exactly!!

Useless and etter can go to hell.
===============
Ahhh, feel the typical vegan compassion. You guys crack me
up!!!





All right then, go to heaven but just shut yer piehole if you have
nothing positive to say.....and the same goes for your girlfriend
~jonnie~.

  #15 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 26-07-2005, 07:57 PM
[email protected]
 
Posts: n/a
Default



Beach Runner wrote:
It sounds like e have some Vegans. Are you interested in vegan
discussion? That would be interesting.

The soy research interests me. The rat studies more than got my
curiosity, but no dangers have been shown in human populations,
primate populations, or cultures that eat soy their entire lives.
Never the less, the research is compelling.




Any kind of research done on rats or any other animals cannot be said
to then apply to humans.

When the monkeys that were tested with ASPARTAME had adverse reactions
including grand mal seizures, that project was scrubbed and the
ASPARTAME was then tested on rats. Since rats have 10 times the
resistance to METHANOL toxicity that humans have, favorable results
were seen.
And that's how we got *that* particular poison on the market.

Soy is bean meal and not harmful.



What are some vegan sources of B12. I've had mine regularly monitored
(as all vegans do). My blood has great chemistry. When I was a fat
vegan, I had high lipid and bad profiles. Exercise must be part of the
equation. I can only wonder how much worse it would have been if I ate
artery clogging meat.



Wheat grown in a manured field will have B 12.





I will respond to anyone with reasonable, non mean spirited arguments.

As far as environmental issues. there is no question that Bush has done
all he can to let coal produce dirty air, rollback improved mpg
regulations, and build is he worst environmental president in American
history.

He also is a failure as a war leader. Where is Bin Laden? After 250
people died in Iraq he said we won. Over a thousand American's have
died since. We are deeply in debt, (from a president that took over a
surplus).

I'm against the terrorists as much as anyone, but Bush has been totally
ineffective.

He let the navy use sonar that hurts and beaches whales and marine
mammals He is building roads into pristine forests.

They spent more investigating Monica Lewisnksy than Enron Lay and the




I'm sorry if you think this is mean spirited but Bush should be
impeached, tried for war crimes and hanged. Hopefully all in the same
day.













Challenger put together.

We need change.

and we have two calamities facing the world, global warming and
anti-biotic resistant bacteria. Our president ignores these critical
issues.

Did Bush win the election?
UIC Prof's Statistical Analysis Casts Doubt on '04 Election Result

Chicago, IL 60607 July 4, 2005

By Gigi Wasz
Gazette news magazine, Chicago

A University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC) professor recently
issued a report calling into question the results of the 2004
presidential election.

In the 30-plus page report, Ron Baiman, PhD, of UIC's Institute
of Government and Public Affairs, along with eleven other
colleagues from other prestigious universities, applied
quantitative data to explain the discrepancy between exit poll
projections and votes actually recorded in the November
election and to understand the analysis given by Edison Media
Research & Mitofsky International (E/M), the pollster of record
for the national election.

E/M's poll projections predicted a win for Democrat John Kerry
by 3%, however, when votes were tallied, Republican President
George W. Bush was given the win by 2.5%-the largest
discrepancy in the poll's history. In its post-election
analysis and report, E/M discredited its own poll projections,
claiming the official vote was not corrupted and that "Kerry
voters were more amenable to completing the poll questionnaire
than Bush voters."

"Using their (E/M's) data tables, we demonstrated that their
hypothesis of outspoken Kerry supporters is implausible,"
explained Baiman. "If the polls were faulty because Bush voters
were shy in the presence of Kerry voters and less likely to
cooperate with pollsters, the polls should be the most accurate
in the precincts where Bush voters were in the overwhelming
majority and where exit poll participation was also at its
maximum. What we find is just the opposite. In fact, the mean
exit poll discrepancy was dramatically higher in Bush
strongholds than in Kerry strongholds."

Baiman and his research team then set out to explain the
discrepancy between the national exit poll and the official
vote. They initially targeted random chance or exit poll
errors. Said Baiman, "There have been several methods to
estimate the probability that the national exit polls would be
as different as they were from the national popular vote by
random chance. These estimates range from one in 1,240 to one
in 16.5 million. No matter how one calculates it, the
discrepancy cannot be attributed to chance."

National research shows "exit polling is a well developed
science, informed by half a century of experience and
continually improving methodology," Baiman explained. For
example, E/M samples voters not only for the nationwide exit
poll but for each state's exit poll. Furthermore, the research
team found that the same exit polls accurately projected U.S.
Senate races; both the Presidential and Senate poll results are
derived from the exact same responders.

"If Bush supporters were refusing to fill out the survey as
hypothesized, the accuracy of the exit polls should have been
just as poor in the Senate races as it was in the Presidential
race," the research team charged in its report. According to
Baiman, by ruling out random chance and exit poll errors, the
only other logical explanation would be that the official vote
was corrupted. In its executive summary, the group's report
states, "the many anecdotal reports of voting irregularities
create a context in which the possibility that the overall vote
count was substantially corrupted must be taken seriously." The
report concludes by calling for a thorough investigation and a
"careful, exhaustive recount in key states."

"Our goal is to raise awareness of the exit poll problems and
to highlight the need for broad election reform," commented
Baiman. "The fact that Edison/Mitofsky has not released its raw
data, which would facilitate independent corroboration of its
analysis, is problematic. The biggest problem is not what
Edison/Mitofsky has concluded, but the fact that it is sitting
on its substantive analysis and data and not allowing any other
independent party to look at it. That this is allowed to
continue is a national and media disgrace."

According to a website dedicated to investigating the 2004
Presidential election, www.bushoccupation.com, "To believe that
Bush won the election, you must also believe: that the exit
polls were wrong; that Zogby's [a traditionally accurate
pollster] 5 p.m. election day calls for Kerry winning Ohio and
Florida were wrong...; that incumbent rule #1-undecideds break
for the challenger-was wrong; that the 50% rule-an incumbent
doesn't do better than his final polling-was wrong; that the
approval rating rule-an incumbent with less than 50% approval
will most likely lose the election-was wrong; that it was just
a coincidence that the exit polls were correct where there was
a paper trail and incorrect (+5% for Bush) where there was no
paper trail; that the surge in new young voters had no positive
effect for Kerry; that Kerry did worse than (Al) Gore against
an opponent who lost the support of scores of Republican
newspapers who were for Bush in 2000...."

To learn more about the election analysis by Baiman and his
team of professionals, contact Baiman at .

wrote:


rick wrote:

wrote in message
roups.com...


nemo wrote:

[email protected] wrote in message
...

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 10:35:40 GMT, Beach Runner
wrote:


Usual suspects has done nothing but be nasty.
He has accused a member of my family of being a homosexual.
He is CLEARLY not interested in VEGAN lifestyle or beliefs.
He has
stated he doesn't care about the suffering of animals.
He calls Osteopaths quacks that teach at major universities.
His constant insults accomplish nothing but make this a
useless news
group. It has a purpose, promoting and discussion of a
vegan life, but
his agenda is sick.
He complains about removing unnecessary text, then when I
post
Dr. Greger's newsletter complains about the length.

He is clearly a very sick, mean person and is now killfiled.

I welcome discussions on vegan subjects.

=B7 Vegans contribute to the deaths of animals by their use
of
wood and paper products, electricity, roads and all types of
buildings, their own diet, etc... just as everyone else does.

What part of "To a much lesser extent" don't you understand?


What they try to avoid are products which provide life
(and death) for farm animals, but even then they would have
to avoid the following in order to be successful:


Same old tosh!

In other words you're saying if you can't stop contributing to
the death of
animals 100%, you shouldn't try for, say, 50%, 80% or whatever
by not eating
the poor buggers. This is illogical, it's rubbisha dn it's just
a wind-up.

So their's gelatin in paper, white sugar is refined using bone
charcoal, and
by law just about everything has to be tested using the
infamous and largely
ineffective LD50 test, the end is listless.

It's not us Vegan's fault. We do our best and rubbish like
yours isn't going
to deflect us from this and iota.


exactly!!

Useless and etter can go to hell.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Ahhh, feel the typical vegan compassion. You guys crack me
up!!!




All right then, go to heaven but just shut yer piehole if you have
nothing positive to say.....and the same goes for your girlfriend
~jonnie~.




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