Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal!

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  #41 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jerry Avins
 
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usual suspect wrote:
> Jerry Avins wrote:
>
>>>>>> The more cows you sample, the more likely one of them will be
>>>>>> infected.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ipse dixit. That assumes sufficient numbers of cattle have BSE, and
>>>>> while that was certainly the case in the UK in the 1980s and 1990s,
>>>>> the predicted pandemic has never occurred. Indeed, researchers are
>>>>> now backpedalling in their predictions.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It assumed nothing about numbers.
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes, it does. How many cattle have been shown to be BSE+? How many
>>> meals of beef are consumed daily by people in just the US? The risk
>>> of vCJD from BSE is so miniscule that it deserves no consideration
>>> compared to, say, being struck by lightning or being in an auto crash
>>> or acquiring some form of cancer.
>>>
>>>> If there is the possibility that one cow is infected, the more cows
>>>> you eat of, the more likely you are to become infected.
>>>
>>>
>>> Ipse dixit. You're assuming not only that one is infected but that it
>>> makes it into the human food supply. In the two (possibly three)
>>> instances of BSE+ cattle in the US, no meat from those animals
>>> entered ANY food supply.
>>>
>>>> The odds of contracting an STD
>>>
>>>
>>> Is a much different issue and you're trying to change the subject.

>>
>>
>> I'm discussing the nature of contagion in general

>
>
> We were discussing something in particular. Why do you keep trying to
> change the subject?


You snipped the answer I already gave: "I'm discussing the nature of
contagion in general since you seem to have blocked on the issue of
prion diseases. The principles are the same."

I don't want to be a shill for your soapbox. You're unwilling to discuss
rationally, so goodbye.

Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
  #42 (permalink)   Report Post  
Beach Runner
 
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usual suspect wrote:

> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>>> However, as an anecdotal study as a 50 year of man and 30 years of
>>>> extensive soy usage, I had an MRI of my brain and they found my
>>>> brain unusually healthy, without the usual shrinkage's for a man my
>>>> age. Why the study, they found something in my brother while
>>>> researching his osteoporosis. My neurologist said he'd never seen
>>>> such a healthy brain in a 50 year old man. No shrinking brain in a
>>>> tofu eating man!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anecdotal.

>>
>>
>> I started by calling it an anecdotal study.

>
>
> It's not a study by any definition, you twit. It's ENTIRELY anecdotal.


I called it an anecdotal study of an MRI of a vegan's brain. If veganism
and tofu caused brain shrinkage, it sure was disprove in this example.

How do you attack something when it is called anecdotal, and then you
insult it for saying it's anecdotal. I think you insult those who
disagree with you just to be mean.
  #43 (permalink)   Report Post  
Beach Runner
 
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usual suspect wrote:

> Beach Runner wrote:
>
> Hey, Einstein, do you have attention deficit disorder or are you just
> stupid? Why don't you reply to the actual post containing the points you
> want to discuss instead of ****ing up the whole thread?
>
>>>>> Not related to "extensive use of meat" [sic]. BSE affects cattle,
>>>>> not humans. The human TSE variant believed to come from infected
>>>>> meat is vCJD. It's believed that eating infected meat -- not lots
>>>>> of meat -- is to blame. Nitwit.

>>
>>
>> Yes another term is used for people, vCJD, but directly related to
>> eating meat. It makes no difference.

>
>
> Yes, it DOES make a difference. Read the following link, dumb ass.
>
> http://www.cjd.ed.ac.uk/CJDtype/cjdtype.htm
>
>> It's considered Mad Cow Desease.

>
>
> No, it is not. So-called "mad cow" refers to BSE, the transmissible
> spongiform encephalopathy which affects cattle.
>
>>> Ipse dixit. It's not yet known if there are genetic issues which make
>>> some people more prone to vCJD -- or normal CJD -- than others. Why
>>> do only some members of households who presumably eat the same meat
>>> in the same dishes contract (v)CJD and others not?

>>
>>
>> Good question.

>
>
> Meaning you're wholly unqualified to respond with a good answer.
>
>> There was a lot of canobolism in human's past, so there is some
>> resistance factor. Obviously not comple.

>
>
> See what I mean? That's a *HORRIBLE* answer, dumb ass. Kuru is not the
> same as vCJD.
>
>>>> If you eat no meat, you run no risk.
>>>
>>>
>>>> The more cows you sample, the more likely one of them will be infected.

>>
>>
>> Obviously,

>
>
> No, not necessarily. That presumes that BSE infection in cattle is a
> widespread rather than isolated problem. The risk even in the UK during
> the 1980s and 1990s was very small. It's even more small in the US and
> Canada.
>
>> and hamburgers have the largest variety.

>
>
> You're blowing hot air out of your fat, old ass again.
>
>>> Ipse dixit. That assumes sufficient numbers of cattle have BSE, and
>>> while that was certainly the case in the UK in the 1980s and 1990s,
>>> the predicted pandemic has never occurred. Indeed, researchers are
>>> now backpedalling in their predictions.

>>
>>
>> The dsease has a long period of time till it shows itself.

>
>
> No, it doesn't. The risks were presumably greatest in the 1980s. The
> number of new vCJD cases has already plateaued and is already in decline:
>
> In the first quarter of 2004 there was only one death from
> variant CJD reported in the United Kingdom. This follows a total
> of 18 deaths reported in 2003. The greatest number of deaths
> reported in any one year was 28 in the year 2000: this decreased
> to 20 in 2001 and 17 in 2002. At the end of the first quarter of
> 2004 the overall total number of deaths from vCJD was 140 with a
> further 6 probable cases alive.
> http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ew/2004/040513.asp#3
>
>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...610802,00.html
>>> Etc.

>>
>>
>> And there are new cases.

>
>
> At a declining rate.
>
>>>> Commercial chopped meat usually has meat from several dozen cows in
>>>> a one-pound package. On the rare occasions that I want a hamburger,
>>>> I grind my own from a single hunk.

>>
>>
>> That's probably a good idea. You even know the source.

>
>
> It's an irrational response. I gave him a better reason to grind his own
> hamburger.
>
>>> The "problem" with commercially-prepared mince/hamburger is that it
>>> was mechanically-separated and likely to contain tissues from spinal
>>> cord, brain, etc., which is believed to increase the odds of vCJD
>>> transmission. Grinding your own has other benefits -- for example,
>>> you can select leaner cuts.
>>>
>>>> Next you're going to tell me that the few BSE cows we've had were
>>>> all found.
>>>
>>>
>>> Strawman, and you're a poor excuse of a psychic. The problem in the
>>> UK has been overblown, and the only reported case of vCJD in the
>>> United States involved a British citizen in Florida whom it's
>>> believed was infected while she lived in the UK. You're still the
>>> nitwit here.

>>
>>
>> We have found cows with Mad Cow desease.

>
>
> Two. Two really *****ing old* cows that were destined for pet food, not
> for the human food supply because they were over 12 years-old.
>
>> The evidence strong enough

>
>
> No, the panic is strong enough that other nations exercise irrational
> caution just as we did when we banned Canadian beef because a couple
> isolated cows tested positive.
>
>> that
>> othere nations, such as Japan resused to accept American Beef.

>
>
> Japan agreed to rescinded its ban last year, but still hasn't done so.
> Other nations have. It's safe. The two cows which have already been
> tested to have BSE were very old and neither was headed to the human
> food supply. Neither entered ANY food supply. There is a third cow whose
> brain tissue is now being tested. According to the reports I've read, it
> was also over 12 years old. That's the cattle age-equivalent of being
> middle-aged (or borderline "old") -- a time when the body starts to
> decline rather quickly. It's not surprising when aging humans, pets, or
> livestock begin to show signs that their ends are near. It would be more
> surprising if they didn't.


The only known way for mad cow disease to develop is to break the law
and feed cow, dead cow. Obviously this is still going on.

As far as the public is concerned, made cow decease is what it is called.
  #44 (permalink)   Report Post  
Beach Runner
 
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Dutch wrote:

> "Jerry Avins" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>Dutch wrote:
>>
>>>"Jerry Avins" > wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>usual suspect wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Jerry Avins wrote:
>>>>
>>>> ...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>The more cows you sample, the more likely one of them will be infected.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Ipse dixit. That assumes sufficient numbers of cattle have BSE, and
>>>>>while that was certainly the case in the UK in the 1980s and 1990s, the
>>>>>predicted pandemic has never occurred. Indeed, researchers are now
>>>>>backpedalling in their predictions.
>>>>
>>>>It assumed nothing about numbers. If there is the possibility that one
>>>>cow is infected, the more cows you eat of, the more likely you are to
>>>>become infected.
>>>>
>>>>The odds of contracting an STD from one sexual encounter is relatively
>>>>small. Do you doubt that the risk increases with the number of partners?
>>>
>>>
>>>Of course, the question is, what is a rational response to risk?
>>>
>>>One child in 10,000 is assaulted in the schoolyard, is it rational
>>>to remove my children from school?
>>>
>>>BSE is primarily a political/economic issue, not a reason to
>>>radically alter one's diet.

>>
>>I don't disagree. It is, however, a reason to alter our husbandry
>>practices.

>
>
> I think that has already happened, in theory if not completely in practise.
>
>

The fact it is still happening indicates it is still being done. Studies
have shown many cow growers were not even aware of the change in law,
  #45 (permalink)   Report Post  
Beach Runner
 
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Dutch wrote:

> "Beach Runner" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>
>>Dutch wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>However, as an anecdotal study as a 50 year of man and 30 years of
>>>>extensive soy usage, I had an MRI of my brain and they found my brain
>>>>unusually healthy, without the usual shrinkage's for a man my age. Why
>>>>the study, they found something in my brother while researching his
>>>>osteoporosis. My neurologist said he'd never seen such a healthy brain
>>>>in a 50 year old man. No shrinking brain in a tofu eating man!
>>>
>>>
>>>Anecdotal.
>>>

>>
>>I started by calling it an anecdotal study.

>
>
> It's not a study.


It was called a study by my neurologist. It also included other tests.
Are you more qualified than my neurologist?
>
>



  #46 (permalink)   Report Post  
rick
 
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"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Dutch wrote:
>
>> "Beach Runner" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>
>>>
>>>Dutch wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>However, as an anecdotal study as a 50 year of man and 30
>>>>>years of extensive soy usage, I had an MRI of my brain and
>>>>>they found my brain unusually healthy, without the usual
>>>>>shrinkage's for a man my age. Why the study, they found
>>>>>something in my brother while researching his osteoporosis.
>>>>>My neurologist said he'd never seen such a healthy brain in
>>>>>a 50 year old man. No shrinking brain in a tofu eating man!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Anecdotal.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I started by calling it an anecdotal study.

>>
>>
>> It's not a study.

>
> It was called a study by my neurologist. It also included other
> tests. Are you more qualified than my neurologist?

==================
If his "advanced" degrees are as useless as yours in having
created a critical thinking skill, then yes, Dutch is.



>>


  #47 (permalink)   Report Post  
Jerry Avins
 
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Beach Runner wrote:

...

> The only known way for mad cow disease to develop is to break the law
> and feed cow, dead cow. Obviously this is still going on.


That's not exactly true. meal made from scrapie-infected sheep can cause
it too.

> As far as the public is concerned, made cow decease is what it is called.


Jerry
--
Engineering is the art of making what you want from things you can get.
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
  #48 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dutch
 
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"Beach Runner" > wrote
> Studies have shown many cow growers were not even aware of the change in
> law,


Farmers playing dumb...


  #49 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dutch
 
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"Beach Runner" > wrote in message
. ..
>
>
> Dutch wrote:
>
>> "Beach Runner" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>
>>>
>>>Dutch wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>>However, as an anecdotal study as a 50 year of man and 30 years of
>>>>>extensive soy usage, I had an MRI of my brain and they found my brain
>>>>>unusually healthy, without the usual shrinkage's for a man my age. Why
>>>>>the study, they found something in my brother while researching his
>>>>>osteoporosis. My neurologist said he'd never seen such a healthy brain
>>>>>in a 50 year old man. No shrinking brain in a tofu eating man!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Anecdotal.
>>>>
>>>
>>>I started by calling it an anecdotal study.

>>
>>
>> It's not a study.

>
> It was called a study by my neurologist. It also included other tests.


An MRI and other tests on an individual is a medical examination, not a
study.

> Are you more qualified than my neurologist?


That's a loaded question. In any case it doesn't really matter what you call
it. Some people smoke cigarettes and live to be 100, that doesn't prove
anything. What is meaningful are trends in large samples of subjects
compared to control groups, etc.. THAT is a study.



  #50 (permalink)   Report Post  
Beach Runner
 
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usual suspect wrote:

> Beach Runner wrote:
>
>>>> I ate some peas and some watermelon last night. It was good. I'm
>>>> thinking of converting to veginism. Do they make a vegitarian fried
>>>> chicken?

>>
>>
>> My S.O granddaugher loves soy chicke'n nogets.

>
>
> Rat pups, exposed to high doses


We are talking about a small amount of not truly vegan but mostly vegan
materials. Unlike my sons that loved veggies, she won't touch the
stuff. Feeding massive amounts is not indicated or implied.


If a runner has too much WATER he can die.

This is the ONLY vegetable we can get the grand child to eat.

My athletics exception loved grapefruit and was mostly a fruitarian by
selection and choice. But the baboons, who's digestive system,
especially dentition is a fugarious animal.



of the plant estrogen coumestrol
> (found in sunflower seeds and oil and alfalfa sprouts) through
> their mother's milk, suffered permanent reproductive problems:
> female pups when grown did not ovulate, and males had altered
> mounting behavior and fewer ejaculations (2).
> [Whitten, P., C. Lewis and F. Naftolin. 1993. A Phytoestrogen
> diet induces the premature anovulatory syndrome in lactationally
> exposed female rats. Biology of Reproduction 49:1117-21.]
>
> Neonatal and immature rats exposed to coumestrol experienced
> estrogen-related responses, such as premature estrous cycles.
> Coumestrol also interrupted ovarian cycles in adult female rats
> (3).
> [Barrett, J. 1996. Phytoestrogens: Friends or Foes?
> Environmental Health Perspectives 104:478-82.]
>
> Newborn rats exposed to the phytoestrogen genistein (a compound
> found in soy products), experienced altered hormone secretions
> and the onset of puberty may have been delayed because female
> rats were exposed to the compound as fetuses (3).
> [Ibid.]
>
> “In males, levels of 17B-estradiol and testosterone were not
> affected, but levels of 3a, 17B- androstanediol glucuronide (a
> metabolite of dihydrotestosterone) and dehydroepiandrosterone
> sulfate were decreased by 13% and 14%, respectively, after 2-4
> weeks of daily soya ingestion.”
> [Supported by USPHS CA56273, CA65628, CA45181, John Sealy
> Memorial Endowment Fund for Biomedical Research, American
> Institute for Cancer Research grant 95B119, and NIH NCRR GCRC
> grant M01 RR00073]
>
> All above lifted from:
> http://www.cheapbodybuildingsu pplements.com/articles/soyestr ogen.shtml
>
> Additionally, see:
> http://www.t-mag.com/articles/ 185soy.html
> http://www.bodybuilding.com/fu n/satter6.htm
>
> No wonder you have a woman's disease...
>
> <...>



  #51 (permalink)   Report Post  
Beach Runner
 
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I will look at all these studies.

On the other hand, we know that a typical American diet, based on fried
foods, steak, white flower, and such will definately kill you.

Thank you for taking the time for these URLs.


Dutch wrote:

> "Beach Runner" > wrote in message
> . ..
>
>>
>>Dutch wrote:
>>
>>>"Beach Runner" > wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>Talk about junk science. There are no human studies of any kind that
>>>>indicate a problem with soy. There have been rat studies with massive
>>>>dosages.
>>>
>>>
>>>You sound pretty certain about that, what's your bias?

>>
>>I looked into the allegations. To see if I should stop soy. No human
>>indications.

>
>
> Interesting.. there are references to human studies in most of these links..
>
> http://www.becomehealthynow.com/article/soy/1088/
> and
> http://www.healingcrow.com/soy/soy.html
> and
> http://starbulletin.com/1999/11/19/news/story4.html
> and
> http://www.rheumatic.org/soy.htm
> and
> http://www.mercola.com/2000/sep/17/soy_brain.htm
> and
> http://www.the7thfire.com/health_and...about_soy.html
> and
> http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/soy-update-wi2004.htm
> and
> http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/features/soyfacts.html
> and
> http://www.snopes.com/toxins/soya.asp
>
>

  #52 (permalink)   Report Post  
Beach Runner
 
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First, thanks for research. I have added I hope you will agree with
objective comments. As I conclude, no diets should be based on one food
source.

Dutch wrote:

> "Jerry Avins" > wrote
>
>>Dutch wrote:
>>
>>>"Beach Runner" > wrote
>>>
>>>>Dutch wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Beach Runner" > wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Talk about junk science. There are no human studies of any kind that
>>>>>>indicate a problem with soy. There have been rat studies with massive
>>>>>>dosages.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You sound pretty certain about that, what's your bias?
>>>>
>>>>I looked into the allegations. To see if I should stop soy. No human
>>>>indications.
>>>
>>>
>>>Interesting.. there are references to human studies in most of these
>>>links..
>>>
>>>http://www.becomehealthynow.com/article/soy/1088/

It is not a controlled study, it is opinion.
>>
>>Pop science reporting. Thoughtful
>>
>>>and
>>>http://www.healingcrow.com/soy/soy.html


Clearly sponsored by such organizations as Monsanto. It is not objective
science.

>>
>>Pop science reporting Also believable
>>
>>>and
>>>http://starbulletin.com/1999/11/19/news/story4.html


I agree, this looks like a valid science. For a truly valid study the
results and methodology must be repeatable. Never the less, it got my
attention.
>>
>>Solid statistics
>>
>>>and
>>>http://www.rheumatic.org/soy.htm

>>


Opinion based on speculation.
>>Good science, anecdotal corroboration
>>
>>>and
>>>http://www.mercola.com/2000/sep/17/soy_brain.htm


opinion. Not subject to the scientific method.
>>
>>Solid statistics
>>
>>>and
>>>http://www.the7thfire.com/health_and...about_soy.html

>>

Looks like theory, no scientific method
>>Provocative
>>
>>>and
>>>http://www.westonaprice.org/soy/soy-update-wi2004.htm

>>
>>Seems authoritative
>>
>>>and
>>>http://www.thaifoodandtravel.com/features/soyfacts.html

>>


Warns of POSSIBLE side effects. Not subject to the scientific method.
>>Plausible
>>
>>>and
>>>http://www.snopes.com/toxins/soya.asp

Strictly a hypotheses
>>
>>"Status: Undetermined."

>
>
> So would you agree that based on the easily
> available information it would seem to be an
> irrational response to simply dismiss out of
> hand health concerns about soy? This leads
> to my original question to Beach Runner,
> what kind of bias would cause a person to
> do so. Perhaps such a bias ought to be put
> through a quality control process.
>
>

Thank you for your research. I agree that soy merits real scientific
study. I know for me, my MRI shows that I'm doing great.

There is not ONE study cited that indicated a study was based on the
scientific method. Let's see some real science, not theories and
strictly anecdotal studies. Scientific methods generally include three
groups, including a placebo group. None of the studies here are based
on the scientific methods.

I would love to see scientific studies. My arteries and blood chemistry
are also clear, and I don't risk the most common forms of death based
on my diet and exercise. I agree to limit tofu and increase other foods.

However, it is inappropriate to feed anyone SINGLE food, they should have a
variety of legumes, leafy green veggies, and seaweed is super high in
minerals. People with allergies to iodine though should avoid as weed,

Unfortunately, most of Americans eat a very limited unhealthy diet.
I stand by my dietary recommendation, one should eat a high variety of
preferably organic foods. Especially leafy greens. Too much of
anything can have adverse effects.

Let's see the same study on MASSIVE amounts of eating beef, and see the
effect on the card vascular systems and colonic cancers. Is Monstanto
going to sponsor objective studies of meat?

Eat a large variety of foods.

I will say that as researcher my brother took three groups of pigs. One
was feed a diet based on cream, rich meats and such, and all died within
3 months. While he is not a vegetarian, it sure got his attention.
  #53 (permalink)   Report Post  
usual suspect
 
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Jerry Avins whiffed:
>>>>>>> The more cows you sample, the more likely one of them will be
>>>>>>> infected.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ipse dixit. That assumes sufficient numbers of cattle have BSE,
>>>>>> and while that was certainly the case in the UK in the 1980s and
>>>>>> 1990s, the predicted pandemic has never occurred. Indeed,
>>>>>> researchers are now backpedalling in their predictions.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It assumed nothing about numbers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, it does. How many cattle have been shown to be BSE+? How many
>>>> meals of beef are consumed daily by people in just the US? The risk
>>>> of vCJD from BSE is so miniscule that it deserves no consideration
>>>> compared to, say, being struck by lightning or being in an auto
>>>> crash or acquiring some form of cancer.
>>>>
>>>>> If there is the possibility that one cow is infected, the more cows
>>>>> you eat of, the more likely you are to become infected.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ipse dixit. You're assuming not only that one is infected but that
>>>> it makes it into the human food supply. In the two (possibly three)
>>>> instances of BSE+ cattle in the US, no meat from those animals
>>>> entered ANY food supply.
>>>>
>>>>> The odds of contracting an STD
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Is a much different issue and you're trying to change the subject.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm discussing the nature of contagion in general

>>
>>
>>
>> We were discussing something in particular. Why do you keep trying to
>> change the subject?

>
> You snipped


I snipped your feeble attempt to change the subject. The "principles"
(meaning pathways of transmission) of prion disease and STDs are NOT the
same. The latter can involve mere physical contact with body parts or
fluids; knowledge of the transmission of the former is much less certain
and seems to require a variety of specific factors -- possibly including
consumption of SPECIFIC parts of infected animals, genetic
predisposition, and others.
  #54 (permalink)   Report Post  
usual suspect
 
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Boob wrote:
>>>>> However, as an anecdotal study as a 50 year of man and 30 years of
>>>>> extensive soy usage, I had an MRI of my brain and they found my
>>>>> brain unusually healthy, without the usual shrinkage's for a man my
>>>>> age. Why the study, they found something in my brother while
>>>>> researching his osteoporosis. My neurologist said he'd never seen
>>>>> such a healthy brain in a 50 year old man. No shrinking brain in a
>>>>> tofu eating man!
>>>>
>>>> Anecdotal.
>>>
>>> I started by calling it an anecdotal study.

>>
>> It's not a study by any definition, you twit. It's ENTIRELY anecdotal.

>
> I called it an anecdotal study


It is ANECDOTAL, it is NOT a study in any way, shape, or form.

> of an MRI of a vegan's brain.


You mean of your flickering braincell.

> If veganism
> and tofu caused brain shrinkage, it sure was disprove in this example.


ANECDOTAL, you twit.
  #55 (permalink)   Report Post  
usual suspect
 
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Beach Runner wrote:
>> Hey, Einstein, do you have attention deficit disorder or are you just
>> stupid? Why don't you reply to the actual post containing the points
>> you want to discuss instead of ****ing up the whole thread?
>>
>>>>>> Not related to "extensive use of meat" [sic]. BSE affects cattle,
>>>>>> not humans. The human TSE variant believed to come from infected
>>>>>> meat is vCJD. It's believed that eating infected meat -- not lots
>>>>>> of meat -- is to blame. Nitwit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yes another term is used for people, vCJD, but directly related to
>>> eating meat. It makes no difference.

>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, it DOES make a difference. Read the following link, dumb ass.
>>
>> http://www.cjd.ed.ac.uk/CJDtype/cjdtype.htm
>>
>>> It's considered Mad Cow Desease.

>>
>>
>>
>> No, it is not. So-called "mad cow" refers to BSE, the transmissible
>> spongiform encephalopathy which affects cattle.
>>
>>>> Ipse dixit. It's not yet known if there are genetic issues which
>>>> make some people more prone to vCJD -- or normal CJD -- than others.
>>>> Why do only some members of households who presumably eat the same
>>>> meat in the same dishes contract (v)CJD and others not?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Good question.

>>
>>
>>
>> Meaning you're wholly unqualified to respond with a good answer.
>>
>>> There was a lot of canobolism in human's past, so there is some
>>> resistance factor. Obviously not comple.

>>
>>
>>
>> See what I mean? That's a *HORRIBLE* answer, dumb ass. Kuru is not the
>> same as vCJD.
>>
>>>>> If you eat no meat, you run no risk.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> The more cows you sample, the more likely one of them will be
>>>>> infected.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Obviously,

>>
>>
>>
>> No, not necessarily. That presumes that BSE infection in cattle is a
>> widespread rather than isolated problem. The risk even in the UK
>> during the 1980s and 1990s was very small. It's even more small in the
>> US and Canada.
>>
>>> and hamburgers have the largest variety.

>>
>>
>>
>> You're blowing hot air out of your fat, old ass again.
>>
>>>> Ipse dixit. That assumes sufficient numbers of cattle have BSE, and
>>>> while that was certainly the case in the UK in the 1980s and 1990s,
>>>> the predicted pandemic has never occurred. Indeed, researchers are
>>>> now backpedalling in their predictions.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The dsease has a long period of time till it shows itself.

>>
>>
>>
>> No, it doesn't. The risks were presumably greatest in the 1980s. The
>> number of new vCJD cases has already plateaued and is already in decline:
>>
>> In the first quarter of 2004 there was only one death from
>> variant CJD reported in the United Kingdom. This follows a total
>> of 18 deaths reported in 2003. The greatest number of deaths
>> reported in any one year was 28 in the year 2000: this decreased
>> to 20 in 2001 and 17 in 2002. At the end of the first quarter of
>> 2004 the overall total number of deaths from vCJD was 140 with a
>> further 6 probable cases alive.
>> http://www.eurosurveillance.org/ew/2004/040513.asp#3
>>
>>>> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article...610802,00.html
>>>> Etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> And there are new cases.

>>
>>
>>
>> At a declining rate.
>>
>>>>> Commercial chopped meat usually has meat from several dozen cows in
>>>>> a one-pound package. On the rare occasions that I want a hamburger,
>>>>> I grind my own from a single hunk.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's probably a good idea. You even know the source.

>>
>>
>>
>> It's an irrational response. I gave him a better reason to grind his
>> own hamburger.
>>
>>>> The "problem" with commercially-prepared mince/hamburger is that it
>>>> was mechanically-separated and likely to contain tissues from spinal
>>>> cord, brain, etc., which is believed to increase the odds of vCJD
>>>> transmission. Grinding your own has other benefits -- for example,
>>>> you can select leaner cuts.
>>>>
>>>>> Next you're going to tell me that the few BSE cows we've had were
>>>>> all found.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Strawman, and you're a poor excuse of a psychic. The problem in the
>>>> UK has been overblown, and the only reported case of vCJD in the
>>>> United States involved a British citizen in Florida whom it's
>>>> believed was infected while she lived in the UK. You're still the
>>>> nitwit here.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have found cows with Mad Cow desease.

>>
>>
>>
>> Two. Two really *****ing old* cows that were destined for pet food,
>> not for the human food supply because they were over 12 years-old.
>>
>>> The evidence strong enough

>>
>>
>>
>> No, the panic is strong enough that other nations exercise irrational
>> caution just as we did when we banned Canadian beef because a couple
>> isolated cows tested positive.
>>
>>> that
>>> othere nations, such as Japan resused to accept American Beef.

>>
>>
>>
>> Japan agreed to rescinded its ban last year, but still hasn't done so.
>> Other nations have. It's safe. The two cows which have already been
>> tested to have BSE were very old and neither was headed to the human
>> food supply. Neither entered ANY food supply. There is a third cow
>> whose brain tissue is now being tested. According to the reports I've
>> read, it was also over 12 years old. That's the cattle age-equivalent
>> of being middle-aged (or borderline "old") -- a time when the body
>> starts to decline rather quickly. It's not surprising when aging
>> humans, pets, or livestock begin to show signs that their ends are
>> near. It would be more surprising if they didn't.

>
>
> The only known way for mad cow disease to develop is to break the law
> and feed cow, dead cow.


*WRONG*. TSE or other degenerative diseases -- in humans, Alzheimer's,
CJD, Parkinson's, etc. -- are known in nearly every species. These
degenerative diseases most often affect older animals. That was true in
the two known BSE cases in the US -- each cow was over 12 years-old.

> Obviously this is still going on.


Ipse dixit and unproven.

<snip of incoherent babble>
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