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| Vegan (alt.food.vegan) This newsgroup exists to share ideas and issues of concern among vegans. We are always happy to share our recipes- perhaps especially with omnivores who are simply curious- or even better, accomodating a vegan guest for a meal! |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote > > > Your insulting ways speak for themselves. You > > > just don't want to be lumped in with Rudy and all. > > > > I am my own person. Challenging ideas is NOT victimizing. > > It is when it's just an excuse to insult or > assume bad things about a person Having some poorly thought-out ideas does not make you a bad person, everyone has them. > > > No, but victimization was certainly attempted. > > > I stood up to you all and still do. > > > > Sticking to bad notions is not a victory, it's just stubbornness. I > don't > > want to you to feel put down, I want you have the courage to question > your > > assumptions. > > You want me to doubt myself. And then you > want to help me. I don't doubt myself and I > don't need your help. Veganism is not a > bad notion. Yes it is. Veganism teaches you a narrow path to moral unrightness, the removal of "animal products" from your lifestyle. All along this path people demonstrate that they are becoming increasing intolerant of differing views and increasingly self-righteous and closed. This is not a healthy process. > > > As far as internet victimization goes, it goes on > > > in these newsgroups for sure. > > > > Even that is doubtful, but specifically, *I* am not attempting to > victimize > > anyone. > > You keep assuming and hoping that people > will feel bad and you can help them, right? No, when I see people display mental confusion I assume that they are not in a good place. > > > Again you assume or hope that I'm in a battered > > > position. I'm not. I simply stand up to you trolls. > > > > Whining about being victimized shows that you feel battered. Also you > are > > not stupid, I know damn well that you can sometimes tell for a moment > when > > your position is leaking oil, but something is stopping you from > addressing > > those times, pride, stubborness, persistence.. whatever, but there's a > > commonly sensible view of all this that you are not seeing. > > Who's whining. You brought up victimization. You > should read me again. I don't feel battered, as the > victimization attempts didn't and won't work. You > are still trying to put me in the position you hope > but it's not working. There are no victimization attempts coming from me. I am not putting you in any position, I am reading what you say and drawing logical inferences. You associate this drive of yours to become a pure vegan as indicative of some sort of moral quest for the holy grail. You deliberately and doggedly fail to recognize simple truths such as the superiority of a small self-sufficient farmer who raises livestock over almost any vegan wrt impact and animal harm. This refusal is a marker of a closed mind, which is an indicator of a person who is in trouble and who doesn't know it. I'm sorry if it hurts your pride to hear it. |
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"Ron" > wrote> > "Dutch" > wrote: > > > No one wants fondly held illusions shattered. Occasionally a person will > > allow it to happen, and they are the better for it. > > I find this entirely hypocritical. When your illusions of anorexia, > eating disorders and drug use were challenged, you don't seem to have > allowed that to happen. I wish you would learn to form a coherent thought. > But then, I think as I wrote to someone else, the need to be right is an > overwhelming phenomena of in our culture. To be wrong is a fate worse > than death. Learning how to be wrong is a great accomplishment. |
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Dutch wrote:
> "Ron" > wrote> > > "Dutch" > wrote: > > > > > No one wants fondly held illusions shattered. Occasionally a person will > > > allow it to happen, and they are the better for it. > > > > I find this entirely hypocritical. When your illusions of anorexia, > > eating disorders and drug use were challenged, you don't seem to have > > allowed that to happen. > > I wish you would learn to form a coherent thought. You get what you pay for, Dutch. > > > But then, I think as I wrote to someone else, the need to be right is an > > overwhelming phenomena of in our culture. To be wrong is a fate worse > > than death. > > Learning how to be wrong is a great accomplishment. |
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> > You are not a shrink. Stop trying to fake it.
> > I don't need to be a shrink. You do if you want to diagnose ailments which you seem to like to do. > > As long as you force your 'help' on > > people, I will think of you as a troll. > > You call anyone who disagrees with your point of view a troll, so my motives > are irrelevant. Nope. People who insult me are who the trolls are. You have insulted me quite a bit. Lucky I'm thick skinned. A more vulnerable person could have had a bad experience thanks to you. > > Maybe no one want's your 'help'. > > No one wants fondly held illusions shattered. Occasionally a person will > allow it to happen, and they are the better for it. It sounds like you want to brainwash them. > > They are when the goal is to insult. > > That's not my goal. I believe it is, along with a desire to be seen as some sort of saviour. > > > > There's no stagnation, and I feel great. Not > > > > just comfortable. You are not anyone's > > > > saviour. You should seek counselling. > > > > > > You shouldn't think your state of mind equals feeling "great" because > > it > > > absolutely can't. > > > > Now you sound like Rudy with the > > 'absolutes'. Why can't I feel great? > > You can't feel 'great' because you are deliberately limiting your thinking > in an irrational way. A person who does that will not be as clear as a > person who doesn't. I'm not doing any irrational limiting. What are you talking about? Anyways, I already feel great, so it's no use trying to talk me out of it.  ) As forbeing clear, my head is very clear. My clarity is great. The only way I could get more 'clear' is if I joined that famous religion that has 'clear' as one of its goals for believers. > > Do you think that's impossible if > > the person is veg*n? > > The diet you follow is not really the issue. The issue is whether or not > your mind is open or closed. A person who is racist for example may think > they feel good, but the hate of racism means they are much less happy than > they could be if they were more open-minded. A person who believes veganism > is the path to moral righteousness has a lot in common with the racist. So, if a person hates veganism then they have a closed mind. They would be much happier if they can be open minded. Yep. Makes sense. > > Maybe you > > don't want to accept me feeling > > great because that would mean > > your 'help' isn't needed. > > You need my help I don't need it, or want it. You are not any sort of saviour. Do you have one of those god complexes or something? > > > > Are you a guru now too? > > > > > > Yes, to you at this time in our lives, I am. Each time I read that I laugh. Sorry but I'm not looking for a guru to follow. The people who tell you to follow them are generally the last ones you should follow. > > No you're not. > > How do you know that? How do you know when someone has something to teach > you? By the things they say. I learn things quite often, just not from people who insult me it seems. For instance, I get a lot out of reading Ron's posts. He's got an interesting logic. Hey, wait a minute now, I might have learned something from you once. I can't remember if it was you that said it, but someone said "ipse dixit' and I had to look that up, so I learned a new definition. Are you happy now, that you've taught me something? -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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"Ron" > wrote in message
... > In article >, > "Scented Nectar" > wrote: > > > > I never thought of Monarch Park Collegiate as a tourist trap > > > though. I'm sure the school would be surprised. > > > > > > Do you figure that every Torontonian > > went to Monarch Park? You made > > this same assumption when talking > > to Ron. > > I think the desire outcome is for you to say "I went to..." There is a > consistent effort here to obtain personal information. Hmm. I hope he isn't holding his breath. |
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> > It is when it's just an excuse to insult or
> > assume bad things about a person > > Having some poorly thought-out ideas does not make you a bad person, > everyone has them. Again you're assuming things. I don't have any problems of poorly thought out ideas. Why do you keep hoping or assuming that everyone has some negative that you must cure them of? > > You want me to doubt myself. And then you > > want to help me. I don't doubt myself and I > > don't need your help. Veganism is not a > > bad notion. > > Yes it is. Veganism teaches you a narrow path to moral unrightness, the > removal of "animal products" from your lifestyle. All along this path people > demonstrate that they are becoming increasing intolerant of differing views > and increasingly self-righteous and closed. This is not a healthy process. There's no narrow path to moral unrightness. What were you on when you wrote that? I have a very open mind. You don't, I think. I'm accepting of the many various reasons and motivations people have for going vegan. There's religion, health, animal rights, allergies, etc. You're not accepting of those. Your mind is closed. > > You keep assuming and hoping that people > > will feel bad and you can help them, right? > > No, when I see people display mental confusion I assume that they are not > in a good place. I question your ability to identify mental confusion. > There are no victimization attempts coming from me. I am not putting you in > any position, I am reading what you say and drawing logical inferences. You > associate this drive of yours to become a pure vegan as indicative of some > sort of moral quest for the holy grail. You deliberately and doggedly fail > to recognize simple truths such as the superiority of a small > self-sufficient farmer who raises livestock over almost any vegan wrt impact > and animal harm. This refusal is a marker of a closed mind, which is an > indicator of a person who is in trouble and who doesn't know it. An example of how you insult is above. You claim I'm on a moral quest for the holy grail. You claim I deliberately fail to recognize things YOU believe to be true. You claim I'm in trouble and don't know it. You're always being so negative around me. What's your problem with people being content with their lives UNCHANGED by you? -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message ... >> > Do you figure that every Torontonian >> > went to Monarch Park? You made >> > this same assumption when talking >> > to Ron. >> ===================== >> No fool. That was where I was going to be. Too bad you can't >> read for comprehension... > > You never said that that was where you > were going to be. ========================== If you weren't so brain dead you'd have understood that fool. If you quit dishonestly snipping posts apart you might be able to keep up a little bit. I doubt it, since you are so terminally ignorant, killer. Do you talk to school > kids in the same way as you talk online? > Do you call them fools? =================================== I wasn't going to be there to talk to kids. Is that another projection of yours? Are kids the only people you seem to be able to converse with and still baffle them with your bullcrap? > > > -- > SN > http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ > A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. > Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. > > |
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"Ron" > wrote in message ... > In article >, > "Scented Nectar" > wrote: > >> > I never thought of Monarch Park Collegiate as a tourist trap >> > though. I'm sure the school would be surprised. >> >> >> Do you figure that every Torontonian >> went to Monarch Park? You made >> this same assumption when talking >> to Ron. > > I think the desire outcome is for you to say "I went to..." > There is a > consistent effort here to obtain personal information. ======================= LOL Nope. I care not where you or stinky are really from. I mentioned it because I happen to know about it because I have been there, and continue to go there for symposiums. I'm still sure that they would be surprised at being a tourist trap. |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message ... > "Ron" > wrote in message > ... >> In article >, >> "Scented Nectar" > wrote: >> >> > > I never thought of Monarch Park Collegiate as a tourist >> > > trap >> > > though. I'm sure the school would be surprised. >> > >> > >> > Do you figure that every Torontonian >> > went to Monarch Park? You made >> > this same assumption when talking >> > to Ron. >> >> I think the desire outcome is for you to say "I went to..." >> There is a >> consistent effort here to obtain personal information. > > Hmm. I hope he isn't holding his breath. ====================== Only when downwind of you, darling.... > > |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message ... >> > Your insulting ways speak for themselves. You >> > just don't want to be lumped in with Rudy and all. >> >> I am my own person. Challenging ideas is NOT victimizing. > > It is when it's just an excuse to insult or > assume bad things about a person > >> > No, but victimization was certainly attempted. >> > I stood up to you all and still do. >> >> Sticking to bad notions is not a victory, it's just >> stubbornness. I > don't >> want to you to feel put down, I want you have the courage to >> question > your >> assumptions. > > You want me to doubt myself. =========================== No, ignorant fool. We want you to inspect your ignorant religion, and the lys that it is based on. You are too sucked into the dogma to do that tho, hypocrite... And then you > want to help me. I don't doubt myself and I > don't need your help. Veganism is not a > bad notion. ======================= As practiced by you is hypocrisy run amok... > >> > As far as internet victimization goes, it goes on >> > in these newsgroups for sure. >> >> Even that is doubtful, but specifically, *I* am not attempting >> to > victimize >> anyone. > > You keep assuming and hoping that people > will feel bad and you can help them, right? > >> > Again you assume or hope that I'm in a battered >> > position. I'm not. I simply stand up to you trolls. >> >> Whining about being victimized shows that you feel battered. >> Also you > are >> not stupid, I know damn well that you can sometimes tell for a >> moment > when >> your position is leaking oil, but something is stopping you >> from > addressing >> those times, pride, stubborness, persistence.. whatever, but >> there's a >> commonly sensible view of all this that you are not seeing. > > Who's whining. You brought up victimization. You > should read me again. I don't feel battered, as the > victimization attempts didn't and won't work. You > are still trying to put me in the position you hope > but it's not working. > > > -- > SN > http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ > A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. > Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. > > > |
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> =======================
> LOL Nope. I care not where you or stinky are really from. I > mentioned it because I happen to know about it because I have > been there, and continue to go there for symposiums. I'm still > sure that they would be surprised at being a tourist trap. This is the first sign you've shown of being somewhat human. That you go to symposiums means you have an interest or hobby (unless of course it's job related). What kind of symposiums do you go to? -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message ... >> ======================= >> LOL Nope. I care not where you or stinky are really from. I >> mentioned it because I happen to know about it because I have >> been there, and continue to go there for symposiums. I'm >> still >> sure that they would be surprised at being a tourist trap. > > > This is the first sign you've shown of being > somewhat human. That you go to symposiums > means you have an interest or hobby (unless > of course it's job related). What kind of > symposiums do you go to? > ======================== See, if you'd ever read entire posts instead of snipping them up, I'm sure at one time or another you'd have seen my sig file. Your snipping of posts, is still idiotic, and since you like the word, trollish... Caone North http://home.earthlink.net/~etterr/ the symposium, now 20 years old, is at: This is list of speakers. bios provided on links... http://members.tripod.com/northernbo...5speakers.html > -- > SN > http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ > A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. > Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. > > |
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> > Hmm. I hope he isn't holding his breath.
> ====================== > Only when downwind of you, darling.... It gets extra bad this time of year since it's just before my yearly bath, which I take even if I don't need it!! -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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> > You want me to doubt myself.
> =========================== > No, ignorant fool. We want you to inspect your ignorant > religion, and the lys that it is based on. You are too sucked > into the dogma to do that tho, hypocrite... I don't belong to any religion. As for my dogma, it's out chasing my karma. > And then you > > want to help me. I don't doubt myself and I > > don't need your help. Veganism is not a > > bad notion. > ======================= > As practiced by you is hypocrisy run amok... Why? It's not a religion for me. Is that the hypocrisy? You like to think it's a religion. -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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> See, if you'd ever read entire posts instead of snipping them up,
> I'm sure at one time or another you'd have seen my sig file. > Your snipping of posts, is still idiotic, and since you like the > word, trollish... Nope. I would have noticed the sig and surfed it. I came to these groups after you stopped using the sig. -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message ... >> See, if you'd ever read entire posts instead of snipping them >> up, >> I'm sure at one time or another you'd have seen my sig file. >> Your snipping of posts, is still idiotic, and since you like >> the >> word, trollish... > > Nope. I would have noticed the sig and > surfed it. I came to these groups after > you stopped using the sig. ================= Nah, I know I have used it a couple times since you've been here... > > > > > -- > SN > http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ > A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. > Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. > > |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message ... >> > You want me to doubt myself. >> =========================== >> No, ignorant fool. We want you to inspect your ignorant >> religion, and the lys that it is based on. You are too sucked >> into the dogma to do that tho, hypocrite... > > I don't belong to any religion. As for my > dogma, it's out chasing my karma. ===================== You're joining one as long as you try to be a vegan, hypocrite. > >> And then you >> > want to help me. I don't doubt myself and I >> > don't need your help. Veganism is not a >> > bad notion. >> ======================= >> As practiced by you is hypocrisy run amok... > > Why? It's not a religion for me. Is that the > hypocrisy? You like to think it's a religion. ================== Because it is. It's based solely on faith. faith that your delusions mean what you think. They don't, killer. > > > > > -- > SN > http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ > A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. > Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. > > |
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In article . net>,
"rick" > wrote: > "Ron" > wrote in message > ... > > In article >, > > "Scented Nectar" > wrote: > > > >> > I never thought of Monarch Park Collegiate as a tourist trap > >> > though. I'm sure the school would be surprised. > >> > >> > >> Do you figure that every Torontonian > >> went to Monarch Park? You made > >> this same assumption when talking > >> to Ron. > > > > I think the desire outcome is for you to say "I went to..." > > There is a > > consistent effort here to obtain personal information. > ======================= > LOL Nope. I care not where you or stinky are really from. I > mentioned it because I happen to know about it because I have > been there, and continue to go there for symposiums. I'm still > sure that they would be surprised at being a tourist trap. "Symposiums" in high schools???? |
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In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote: > "Ron" > wrote> > > "Dutch" > wrote: > > > > > No one wants fondly held illusions shattered. Occasionally a person will > > > allow it to happen, and they are the better for it. > > > > I find this entirely hypocritical. When your illusions of anorexia, > > eating disorders and drug use were challenged, you don't seem to have > > allowed that to happen. > > I wish you would learn to form a coherent thought. > > > But then, I think as I wrote to someone else, the need to be right is an > > overwhelming phenomena of in our culture. To be wrong is a fate worse > > than death. > > Learning how to be wrong is a great accomplishment. From time to time people are wrong. Our cultural perspective of being wrong is, as I stated, perceived as a fate worse than death. I was wrong at least 3 times today, made at least 2 mistakes, and probably make a monumental **** up along the way that some one is bound to point out to me at some point. Ooops, excuse me for being human. When contrasted with the number of things where I was accurate, did well or above well, and just shone is a more balanced perspective in my view. |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote > > > You are not a shrink. Stop trying to fake it. > > > > I don't need to be a shrink. > > You do if you want to diagnose ailments > which you seem to like to do. Nope. > > > As long as you force your 'help' on > > > people, I will think of you as a troll. > > > > You call anyone who disagrees with your point of view a troll, so my > motives > > are irrelevant. > > Nope. People who insult me are who the > trolls are. And you feel insulted when someone disagrees with your point of view. > You have insulted me quite a > bit. I have criticised your point of view. You have insulted me quite often. > Lucky I'm thick skinned. There's a difference between thick-skined and thick-skulled. > A more > vulnerable person could have had a bad > experience thanks to you. A more vulnerable person may have been able to learn something. > > > > Maybe no one want's your 'help'. > > > > No one wants fondly held illusions shattered. Occasionally a person > will > > allow it to happen, and they are the better for it. > > It sounds like you want to brainwash them. > > > > They are when the goal is to insult. > > > > That's not my goal. > > I believe it is, along with a desire to be > seen as some sort of saviour. Which is it, be seen as a saviour or to insult? The two are not compatible. Maybe there is another less ominous alternative you aren't considering. > > > > > There's no stagnation, and I feel great. Not > > > > > just comfortable. You are not anyone's > > > > > saviour. You should seek counselling. > > > > > > > > You shouldn't think your state of mind equals feeling "great" > because > > > it > > > > absolutely can't. > > > > > > Now you sound like Rudy with the > > > 'absolutes'. Why can't I feel great? > > > > You can't feel 'great' because you are deliberately limiting your > thinking > > in an irrational way. A person who does that will not be as clear as a > > person who doesn't. > > I'm not doing any irrational limiting. Yes you are. > What are you > talking about? I am talking about your inability to comprehend and/or accept the likelihood that your urban veg*n diet is probably less animal friendly than many non-veg*n diets. > Anyways, I already feel great, so > it's no use trying to talk me out of it. )Not even to feel *better*? As for > being clear, my head is very clear. My clarity > is great. The only way I could get more 'clear' > is if I joined that famous religion that has > 'clear' as one of its goals for believers. I would be suspicious that such a religion would be effective. > > > Do you think that's impossible if > > > the person is veg*n? > > > > The diet you follow is not really the issue. The issue is whether or > not > > your mind is open or closed. A person who is racist for example may > think > > they feel good, but the hate of racism means they are much less happy > than > > they could be if they were more open-minded. A person who believes > veganism > > is the path to moral righteousness has a lot in common with the > racist. > > So, if a person hates veganism then they have > a closed mind. They would be much happier > if they can be open minded. Yep. Makes sense. Hating something bad is not bad. > > > Maybe you > > > don't want to accept me feeling > > > great because that would mean > > > your 'help' isn't needed. > > > > You need my help > > I don't need it, or want it. You need it. > You are not any > sort of saviour. Yes, I am. > Do you have one of those > god complexes or something? Everyone is an embodiment of the divine. > > > > > Are you a guru now too? > > > > > > > > Yes, to you at this time in our lives, I am. > > Each time I read that I laugh. Sorry but > I'm not looking for a guru to follow. The > people who tell you to follow them are > generally the last ones you should follow. I didn't put it in those terms, you did. I am seeing something in your beliefs that should be of interest to you, and that would benefit you, that's all. > > > No you're not. > > > > How do you know that? How do you know when someone has something to > teach > > you? > > By the things they say. How do you know you aren't turning away from the very people you should pay attention to? If someone compliments you, you probably love that, but you will not learn anything from that person. > I learn things quite > often, just not from people who insult me it > seems. For instance, I get a lot out of > reading Ron's posts. He's got an interesting > logic. Ron has a terribly confused point of view. You like reading his posts because he decided early on to take your side. He did that because he thought he could win some debating points against the group "heavyweights" who were on your case. He has had his lunch handed to him. > Hey, wait a minute now, I might > have learned something from you once. > I can't remember if it was you that said it, > but someone said "ipse dixit' and I had > to look that up, so I learned a new > definition. Are you happy now, that > you've taught me something? Sure, I love to see people learn new things, there's nothing like it. |
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Skanky wrote:
> > > > As long as you force your 'help' on > > > people, I will think of you as a troll. > > > > You call anyone who disagrees with your point of view a troll, so my > > motives are irrelevant. > > Nope. Yep. > People who insult me are who the > trolls are. No, people who disagree with your goofy views are whom you call trolls. > You have insulted me quite a > bit. Lucky I'm thick. !!! > A more vulnerable person could have had a bad > experience thanks to you. |
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> > > I don't need to be a shrink.
> > > > You do if you want to diagnose ailments > > which you seem to like to do. > > Nope. Yep, if you want to be credible. > > Nope. People who insult me are who the > > trolls are. > > And you feel insulted when someone disagrees with your point of view. No. I see in troll posts, insults mixed in to other stuff. You mix it into a pretended need to help. > > > > They are when the goal is to insult. > > > > > > That's not my goal. > > > > I believe it is, along with a desire to be > > seen as some sort of saviour. > > Which is it, be seen as a saviour or to insult? The two are not compatible. > Maybe there is another less ominous alternative you aren't considering. You are the one mixing insults in with a facade of helping, so I'll ask you, which is it? > > I'm not doing any irrational limiting. > > Yes you are. > > > What are you > > talking about? > > I am talking about your inability to comprehend and/or accept the likelihood > that your urban veg*n diet is probably less animal friendly than many > non-veg*n diets. I doubt it, but even if it were true, I don't eat meat for health reasons primarily. So your promoted diet is not for me no matter how animal friendly you say it is. > > Anyways, I already feel great, so > > it's no use trying to talk me out of it. )> > Not even to feel *better*? Prove to me that you can magically make me feel better than I already do. You have had the gall to actually consider yourself my guru, so let's hear what you're offering. > > So, if a person hates veganism then they have > > a closed mind. They would be much happier > > if they can be open minded. Yep. Makes sense. > > Hating something bad is not bad. We disagree on what's bad. > > > You need my help > > > > I don't need it, or want it. > > You need it. I'm the judge of what I need, not you. > > You are not any > > sort of saviour. > > Yes, I am. Bring on the padded van! Do you think you're a god? > > Do you have one of those > > god complexes or something? > > Everyone is an embodiment of the divine. That's your religion, not mine. > > > > > > Are you a guru now too? > > > > > > > > > > Yes, to you at this time in our lives, I am. > > > > Each time I read that I laugh. Sorry but > > I'm not looking for a guru to follow. The > > people who tell you to follow them are > > generally the last ones you should follow. > > I didn't put it in those terms, you did. I am seeing something in your > beliefs that should be of interest to you, and that would benefit you, > that's all. Oh no, first Rudy was telling me what to believe, and now your doing it. > > > How do you know that? How do you know when someone has something to > > teach > > > you? > > > > By the things they say. > > How do you know you aren't turning away from the very people you should pay > attention to? If someone compliments you, you probably love that, but you > will not learn anything from that person. It's nothing to do with compliments. Experience has taught me you can't learn any good from people who insult you. > > I learn things quite > > often, just not from people who insult me it > > seems. For instance, I get a lot out of > > reading Ron's posts. He's got an interesting > > logic. > > Ron has a terribly confused point of view. You like reading his posts > because he decided early on to take your side. He did that because he > thought he could win some debating points against the group "heavyweights" > who were on your case. He has had his lunch handed to him. I don't see him as being in a defeated position as you do. You seem to often project negative stuff on people. > > Hey, wait a minute now, I might > > have learned something from you once. > > I can't remember if it was you that said it, > > but someone said "ipse dixit' and I had > > to look that up, so I learned a new > > definition. Are you happy now, that > > you've taught me something? > > Sure, I love to see people learn new things, there's nothing like it. I'm learning a lot about seasonings and cooking vegan foods. I'm coming up with a lot of tasty foods. Can you be happy for me for learning all that? -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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> > You have insulted me quite a
> > bit. Lucky I'm thick. > > !!! How surprising. You edited my sentence to change my meaning. How surprising. -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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Skanky wrote:
> > > You have insulted me quite a > > > bit. Lucky I'm thick. > > > > !!! > > > How surprising. Not really. You really don't give much evidence of critical thinking ability, so it's not surprising you'd admit it. |
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"Ron" > wrote in message ... > In article > . net>, > "rick" > wrote: > >> "Ron" > wrote in message >> ... >> > In article >, >> > "Scented Nectar" > wrote: >> > >> >> > I never thought of Monarch Park Collegiate as a tourist >> >> > trap >> >> > though. I'm sure the school would be surprised. >> >> >> >> >> >> Do you figure that every Torontonian >> >> went to Monarch Park? You made >> >> this same assumption when talking >> >> to Ron. >> > >> > I think the desire outcome is for you to say "I went to..." >> > There is a >> > consistent effort here to obtain personal information. >> ======================= >> LOL Nope. I care not where you or stinky are really from. I >> mentioned it because I happen to know about it because I have >> been there, and continue to go there for symposiums. I'm >> still >> sure that they would be surprised at being a tourist trap. > > "Symposiums" in high schools???? ==================== Ah yes, the typical 'how it looks' to you spew. Tell me, how does the venue change the content of what the symposium is offering? But then, to queer-boys like you, it is all about image, eh pansy? Besides, what's with trying to hype up high schools in canada by calling them collegiates? Again, looks like image before function... 5-letter word indeed... Canoe North http://home.earthlink.net/~etterr/ |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message ... >> > > I don't need to be a shrink. >> > >> > You do if you want to diagnose ailments >> > which you seem to like to do. >> >> Nope. > > Yep, if you want to be credible. I am not giving medical treatment. >> > Nope. People who insult me are who the >> > trolls are. >> >> And you feel insulted when someone disagrees with your point of view. > > No. I see in troll posts, insults mixed in to > other stuff. You mix it into a pretended > need to help. You insults everywhere your point of view is questioned. >> > > > They are when the goal is to insult. >> > > >> > > That's not my goal. >> > >> > I believe it is, along with a desire to be >> > seen as some sort of saviour. >> >> Which is it, be seen as a saviour or to insult? The two are not > compatible. >> Maybe there is another less ominous alternative you aren't > considering. > > You are the one mixing insults in with > a facade of helping, so I'll ask you, > which is it? Neither, it's exactly what I say it is. I see something very obvious in your pattern of responses that you can't see because you can't be objective about your own ideas. > >> > I'm not doing any irrational limiting. >> >> Yes you are. >> >> > What are you >> > talking about? >> >> I am talking about your inability to comprehend and/or accept the > likelihood >> that your urban veg*n diet is probably less animal friendly than many >> non-veg*n diets. > > I doubt it, You have no rational reason to doubt it. ***I have lived both ways, and when I was a small farmer, the only thing on our table that we didn't grow ourselves was the salt. When I was an urban veg*n like you I depended heavily on imported and commercially grown products. There is absolutely no question at all at which stage I had the lighter impact. > but even if it were true, I don't > eat meat for health reasons primarily. > So your promoted diet is not for me no > matter how animal friendly you say it is. That's good, I'm not suggesting you change your diet. I don't eat the absolutely best diet either, who does? I'm simply asking you consider my statements*** above and tell me if it isn't a reasonable analysis. If you disagree, please say specifically why. > >> > Anyways, I already feel great, so >> > it's no use trying to talk me out of it. )>> >> Not even to feel *better*? > > Prove to me that you can magically make > me feel better than I already do. You have > had the gall to actually consider yourself > my guru, so let's hear what you're offering. OK, read my statement*** above and tell me why you are UNABLE to admit that it's reasonable. >> > So, if a person hates veganism then they have >> > a closed mind. They would be much happier >> > if they can be open minded. Yep. Makes sense. >> >> Hating something bad is not bad. > > We disagree on what's bad. Narrow-mindedness is always bad. >> > > You need my help >> > >> > I don't need it, or want it. >> >> You need it. > > I'm the judge of what I need, not you. No you're no, you're the judge of what you want. >> > You are not any >> > sort of saviour. >> >> Yes, I am. > > Bring on the padded van! Do you think you're > a god? Of course, aren't you? >> > Do you have one of those >> > god complexes or something? >> >> Everyone is an embodiment of the divine. > > That's your religion, not mine. It's not a religion, it's just life. >> > > > > > Are you a guru now too? >> > > > > >> > > > > Yes, to you at this time in our lives, I am. >> > >> > Each time I read that I laugh. Sorry but >> > I'm not looking for a guru to follow. The >> > people who tell you to follow them are >> > generally the last ones you should follow. >> >> I didn't put it in those terms, you did. I am seeing something in your >> beliefs that should be of interest to you, and that would benefit you, >> that's all. > > Oh no, first Rudy was telling me what to > believe, and now your doing it. By now I'll know if you considered what I said above. >> > > How do you know that? How do you know when someone has something > to >> > teach >> > > you? >> > >> > By the things they say. >> >> How do you know you aren't turning away from the very people you > should pay >> attention to? If someone compliments you, you probably love that, but > you >> will not learn anything from that person. > > It's nothing to do with compliments. Experience > has taught me you can't learn any good from > people who insult you. Experience should have taught you that you learn when your assumptions are challenged, not when people agree with you and make comforting assurances. >> > I learn things quite >> > often, just not from people who insult me it >> > seems. For instance, I get a lot out of >> > reading Ron's posts. He's got an interesting >> > logic. >> >> Ron has a terribly confused point of view. You like reading his posts >> because he decided early on to take your side. He did that because he >> thought he could win some debating points against the group > "heavyweights" >> who were on your case. He has had his lunch handed to him. > > I don't see him as being in a defeated position > as you do. You seem to often project negative > stuff on people. I don't think he's "defeated" either, he's just lost a few skirmishes. He appears to possess the ability to be a factor, but I just think he's relying a couple of false premises. >> > Hey, wait a minute now, I might >> > have learned something from you once. >> > I can't remember if it was you that said it, >> > but someone said "ipse dixit' and I had >> > to look that up, so I learned a new >> > definition. Are you happy now, that >> > you've taught me something? >> >> Sure, I love to see people learn new things, there's nothing like it. > > I'm learning a lot about seasonings and cooking > vegan foods. I'm coming up with a lot of tasty > foods. Can you be happy for me for learning > all that? Great! I love vegetarian cooking, we eat vegetarian dinners at least two or three times a week. I am making some wraps later, if I give you the recipe (on alt.food.vegan) you can try it and maybe put it on your website :>) |
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> I am not giving medical treatment.
You are attempting to diagnose mental illnesses and attempting to fix these alleged ailments. > ***I have lived both ways, and when I was a small farmer, the only thing on > our table that we didn't grow ourselves was the salt. When I was an urban > veg*n like you I depended heavily on imported and commercially grown > products. There is absolutely no question at all at which stage I had the > lighter impact. > > > but even if it were true, I don't > > eat meat for health reasons primarily. > > So your promoted diet is not for me no > > matter how animal friendly you say it is. > > That's good, I'm not suggesting you change your diet. I don't eat the > absolutely best diet either, who does? I'm simply asking you consider my > statements*** above and tell me if it isn't a reasonable analysis. If you > disagree, please say specifically why. Why do you say you don't eat the best diet EITHER? That's another one of your hidden insults. My diet is one of the best possible ones healthwise. As for your statement, you could have farmed veganically, but you raised animals to eat. I know you said you pastured a cow, but what about pigs and chickens, did you grow their foods? Maybe your death toll was low, but it could have been 0. That's how I see it. > > Prove to me that you can magically make > > me feel better than I already do. You have > > had the gall to actually consider yourself > > my guru, so let's hear what you're offering. > > OK, read my statement*** above and tell me why you are UNABLE to admit that > it's reasonable. You could have farmed with a 0 death toll but you didn't. Unless the only animals were for milk and eggs, then you had to kill some for meat. If you killed none for meat, then I would say you did good by my standards. > > I'm the judge of what I need, not you. > > No you're no, you're the judge of what you want. My needs are my own. You are not in a position to tell me my needs, nor are you in a position to tell me I don't decide it for myself. > >> Everyone is an embodiment of the divine. > > > > That's your religion, not mine. > > It's not a religion, it's just life. Talk of the devine indicates you're referring to a religious theme. > > I don't see him as being in a defeated position > > as you do. You seem to often project negative > > stuff on people. > > I don't think he's "defeated" either, he's just lost a few skirmishes. He > appears to possess the ability to be a factor, but I just think he's relying > a couple of false premises. He didn't lose some skirmishes. What kind of factor are you talking about? > > I'm learning a lot about seasonings and cooking > > vegan foods. I'm coming up with a lot of tasty > > foods. Can you be happy for me for learning > > all that? > > Great! I love vegetarian cooking, we eat vegetarian dinners at least two or > three times a week. I am making some wraps later, if I give you the recipe > (on alt.food.vegan) you can try it and maybe put it on your website :>) My personal recipe site is just for my own stuff, but if you were to make a website of your own veg recipes, I'll list you on my directory site. -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote >> I am not giving medical treatment. > > You are attempting to diagnose mental illnesses > and attempting to fix these alleged ailments. I don't a medical licence to recognize irrational thinking. > >> ***I have lived both ways, and when I was a small farmer, the only > thing on >> our table that we didn't grow ourselves was the salt. When I was an > urban >> veg*n like you I depended heavily on imported and commercially grown >> products. There is absolutely no question at all at which stage I had > the >> lighter impact. Why didn't you respond to this? >> > but even if it were true, I don't >> > eat meat for health reasons primarily. >> > So your promoted diet is not for me no >> > matter how animal friendly you say it is. >> >> That's good, I'm not suggesting you change your diet. I don't eat the >> absolutely best diet either, who does? I'm simply asking you consider > my >> statements*** above and tell me if it isn't a reasonable analysis. If > you >> disagree, please say specifically why. > > Why do you say you don't eat the best > diet EITHER? That's another one of > your hidden insults. My diet is one of > the best possible ones healthwise. My response was to your reply "even if it were true" referring to the *impact* of an urban vegan diet compared to a rural self-sufficient one. It wasn't about health. Here is an example of the irrationality I am talking about. When I try to have a conversation with you about one thing, you change the subject, presumably because you don't like the way things are going. > As for your statement, you could have > farmed veganically, but you raised > animals to eat. I know you said you > pastured a cow, but what about pigs > and chickens, did you grow their foods? Quite a lot of it, not all. Besides pasture and alfalfa and a vegetable garden we also had fields of oats and wheat. > Maybe your death toll was low, but it > could have been 0. That's how I see > it. I question the use of the absolute "0", but yes it could have been lower, but it was already much lower than the typical urban vegan, which is the point I am making. >> > Prove to me that you can magically make >> > me feel better than I already do. You have >> > had the gall to actually consider yourself >> > my guru, so let's hear what you're offering. >> >> OK, read my statement*** above and tell me why you are UNABLE to admit > that >> it's reasonable. > > You could have farmed with a 0 death toll > but you didn't. Your diet doesn't have a zero death toll, how come you're so pleased with it and not with a lifestyle that is much better? > Unless the only animals > were for milk and eggs, then you had to > kill some for meat. If you killed none > for meat, then I would say you did good > by my standards. What does it matter if the killing was for meat? The killing was *low*, that's what matters to animals. >> > I'm the judge of what I need, not you. >> >> No you're no, you're the judge of what you want. > > My needs are my own. You are not in a > position to tell me my needs, nor are you > in a position to tell me I don't decide it > for myself. Everyone needs to think clearly and without irrational biases. >> >> Everyone is an embodiment of the divine. >> > >> > That's your religion, not mine. >> >> It's not a religion, it's just life. > > Talk of the devine indicates you're > referring to a religious theme. I'm following the metaphor, call it whatever you like. >> > I don't see him as being in a defeated position >> > as you do. You seem to often project negative >> > stuff on people. >> >> I don't think he's "defeated" either, he's just lost a few skirmishes. > He >> appears to possess the ability to be a factor, but I just think he's > relying >> a couple of false premises. > > He didn't lose some skirmishes. Of course he did, you aren't even paying attention. > What kind > of factor are you talking about? He has a prejudice against "conventional wisdom" for one, as if anything widely thought to be true must be wrong. >> > I'm learning a lot about seasonings and cooking >> > vegan foods. I'm coming up with a lot of tasty >> > foods. Can you be happy for me for learning >> > all that? >> >> Great! I love vegetarian cooking, we eat vegetarian dinners at least > two or >> three times a week. I am making some wraps later, if I give you the > recipe >> (on alt.food.vegan) you can try it and maybe put it on your website > :>) > > My personal recipe site is just for my own stuff, but if > you were to make a website of your own veg recipes, > I'll list you on my directory site. Fair enough. |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message ... >> > It is when it's just an excuse to insult or >> > assume bad things about a person >> >> Having some poorly thought-out ideas does not make you a bad person, >> everyone has them. > > Again you're assuming things. I don't have any > problems of poorly thought out ideas. Why do > you keep hoping or assuming that everyone > has some negative that you must cure them of? There you go again, why do you assume that because I believe *you* have poorly thought-out ideas that I think everyone does? >> > You want me to doubt myself. And then you >> > want to help me. I don't doubt myself and I >> > don't need your help. Veganism is not a >> > bad notion. >> >> Yes it is. Veganism teaches you a narrow path to moral unrightness, > the >> removal of "animal products" from your lifestyle. All along this path > people >> demonstrate that they are becoming increasing intolerant of differing > views >> and increasingly self-righteous and closed. This is not a healthy > process. > > There's no narrow path to moral unrightness. If you truly believed that then you would not have concluded that my rural self-sufficient lifestyle was deficient if I killed animals for meat. > What were you on when you wrote that? I > have a very open mind. You don't, I think. > I'm accepting of the many various reasons > and motivations people have for going > vegan. There's religion, health, animal > rights, allergies, etc. You're not accepting > of those. Your mind is closed. I see them all very clearly, to you they're a muddle. > >> > You keep assuming and hoping that people >> > will feel bad and you can help them, right? >> >> No, when I see people display mental confusion I assume that they are > not >> in a good place. > > I question your ability to identify mental confusion. Since it's you that is confused that is not surprising. >> There are no victimization attempts coming from me. I am not putting > you in >> any position, I am reading what you say and drawing logical > inferences. You >> associate this drive of yours to become a pure vegan as indicative of > some >> sort of moral quest for the holy grail. You deliberately and doggedly > fail >> to recognize simple truths such as the superiority of a small >> self-sufficient farmer who raises livestock over almost any vegan wrt > impact >> and animal harm. This refusal is a marker of a closed mind, which is > an >> indicator of a person who is in trouble and who doesn't know it. > > > An example of how you insult is above. You > claim I'm on a moral quest for the holy grail. The desire to remove animal products and become "vegan". > You claim I deliberately fail to recognize > things YOU believe to be true. It's a fact. > You claim > I'm in trouble and don't know it. Also a fact. > You're > always being so negative around me. Your blind stubborness invites it. > What's your problem with people being > content with their lives UNCHANGED > by you? No problem at all for me. What is your problem with change? |
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> > You are attempting to diagnose mental illnesses
> > and attempting to fix these alleged ailments. > > I don't a medical licence to recognize irrational thinking. I think you do, since you're seeing it where it isn't. > >> ***I have lived both ways, and when I was a small farmer, the only > > thing on > >> our table that we didn't grow ourselves was the salt. When I was an > > urban > >> veg*n like you I depended heavily on imported and commercially grown > >> products. There is absolutely no question at all at which stage I had > > the > >> lighter impact. > > Why didn't you respond to this? I did further down. > My response was to your reply "even if it were true" referring to the > *impact* of an urban vegan diet compared to a rural self-sufficient one. It > wasn't about health. Here is an example of the irrationality I am talking > about. When I try to have a conversation with you about one thing, you > change the subject, presumably because you don't like the way things are > going. You just want to compare the best (fringe) of meat eating to the worst (urban) of vegan. I don't find your fringe diet reasonable because it involves an intentional death and the eating of a dead body. You're trying to claim it's better than urban veganism due to less deaths. I've seen no proof of that. I'm doubtful that cds are as high as claimed in plant foods. Health comes into the picture because it's foremost my motivation. I believe my urban diet is healthier than your meat eating rural one. If you are looking for a pat on the back for being better than other meat eaters, you probably are, compared to urban meat eaters. > > As for your statement, you could have > > farmed veganically, but you raised > > animals to eat. I know you said you > > pastured a cow, but what about pigs > > and chickens, did you grow their foods? > > Quite a lot of it, not all. Besides pasture and alfalfa and a vegetable > garden we also had fields of oats and wheat. If you were vegetarian you could have had a 0 death farm. > > Maybe your death toll was low, but it > > could have been 0. That's how I see > > it. > > I question the use of the absolute "0", but yes it could have been lower, > but it was already much lower than the typical urban vegan, which is the > point I am making. Maybe. But your way involves dead body eating. It's not an option to a veg*n even though you want to promote it as one. > > You could have farmed with a 0 death toll > > but you didn't. > > Your diet doesn't have a zero death toll, how come you're so pleased with it > and not with a lifestyle that is much better? I'm pretty sure that it's close to 0. I don't believe there are very many cds. > > Unless the only animals > > were for milk and eggs, then you had to > > kill some for meat. If you killed none > > for meat, then I would say you did good > > by my standards. > > What does it matter if the killing was for meat? The killing was *low*, > that's what matters to animals. The killing for meat is repulsive to vegetarians. Don't you realize that by now? No one's converting to your meat diets. > > My needs are my own. You are not in a > > position to tell me my needs, nor are you > > in a position to tell me I don't decide it > > for myself. > > Everyone needs to think clearly and without irrational biases. Then stop being irrationally biased against my diet. > >> >> Everyone is an embodiment of the divine. > >> > > >> > That's your religion, not mine. > >> > >> It's not a religion, it's just life. > > > > Talk of the devine indicates you're > > referring to a religious theme. > > I'm following the metaphor, call it whatever you like. Nonsense. That was a religious statement no matter what you want to call it. No thanks. I've got my own religion. I'm not looking for a new one. > > He didn't lose some skirmishes. > > Of course he did, you aren't even paying attention. I saw him 'win' some logical arguments. > > What kind > > of factor are you talking about? > > He has a prejudice against "conventional wisdom" for one, as if anything > widely thought to be true must be wrong. I don't remember him claiming that anything widely thought to be true must be wrong. > > My personal recipe site is just for my own stuff, but if > > you were to make a website of your own veg recipes, > > I'll list you on my directory site. > > Fair enough. I'm very open minded when it comes to my listed sites. As long as it's veggie, all comers are welcome or whatever that saying is. -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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> There you go again, why do you assume that because I believe *you*
have > poorly thought-out ideas that I think everyone does? I've seen the way you interact with others on these newsgroups. You treat people like shit, always thinking and claiming negative things about them. > > There's no narrow path to moral unrightness. > > If you truly believed that then you would not have concluded that my rural > self-sufficient lifestyle was deficient if I killed animals for meat. You had a great opportunity to grow all your own food veganically, but instead raised animals for killing. That's your choice to make, but don't expect me to be thrilled about it. > > What were you on when you wrote that? I > > have a very open mind. You don't, I think. > > I'm accepting of the many various reasons > > and motivations people have for going > > vegan. There's religion, health, animal > > rights, allergies, etc. You're not accepting > > of those. Your mind is closed. > > I see them all very clearly, to you they're a muddle. No muddle. There's a wide variety to veg*ns. You again are insulting by claiming me to be muddled when in fact I am experiencing no such thing. > > I question your ability to identify mental confusion. > > Since it's you that is confused that is not surprising. I'm not confused about anything other than what you get out of trolling. > > An example of how you insult is above. You > > claim I'm on a moral quest for the holy grail. > > The desire to remove animal products and become "vegan". I'm very content to simply do what I can, healthwise. > > You claim I deliberately fail to recognize > > things YOU believe to be true. > > It's a fact. So let it go. Accept that I have different beliefs than you. Unless you can do that, we're going nowhere. > > You claim > > I'm in trouble and don't know it. > > Also a fact. Nonsense. > > You're > > always being so negative around me. > > Your blind stubborness invites it. I stubbornly don't need your help, get it? > > What's your problem with people being > > content with their lives UNCHANGED > > by you? > > No problem at all for me. What is your problem with change? I change on my terms and when I feel it's necessary. How do you have the gall to assume I want to take on your prescribed changes? -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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In article . net>,
"rick" > wrote: > "Ron" > wrote in message > ... > > In article > > . net>, > > "rick" > wrote: > > > >> "Ron" > wrote in message > >> ... > >> > In article >, > >> > "Scented Nectar" > wrote: > >> > > >> >> > I never thought of Monarch Park Collegiate as a tourist > >> >> > trap > >> >> > though. I'm sure the school would be surprised. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Do you figure that every Torontonian > >> >> went to Monarch Park? You made > >> >> this same assumption when talking > >> >> to Ron. > >> > > >> > I think the desire outcome is for you to say "I went to..." > >> > There is a > >> > consistent effort here to obtain personal information. > >> ======================= > >> LOL Nope. I care not where you or stinky are really from. I > >> mentioned it because I happen to know about it because I have > >> been there, and continue to go there for symposiums. I'm > >> still > >> sure that they would be surprised at being a tourist trap. > > > > "Symposiums" in high schools???? > ==================== > Ah yes, the typical 'how it looks' to you spew. Tell me, how > does the venue change the content of what the symposium is > offering? But then, to queer-boys like you, it is all about > image, eh pansy? Well, what are the symposiums? I could understand a symposium at Convocation Hall, Metro Convention Centre, or any of the buildings in these areas, but Monarch Park. > Besides, what's with trying to hype up high schools in canada by > calling them collegiates? Again, looks like image before > function... 5-letter word indeed... > > > > Canoe North > http://home.earthlink.net/~etterr/ |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message ... >> > You are attempting to diagnose mental illnesses >> > and attempting to fix these alleged ailments. >> >> I don't a medical licence to recognize irrational thinking. > > I think you do, since you're seeing it where > it isn't. There is an example of it in this post. >> >> ***I have lived both ways, and when I was a small farmer, the only >> > thing on >> >> our table that we didn't grow ourselves was the salt. When I was an >> > urban >> >> veg*n like you I depended heavily on imported and commercially > grown >> >> products. There is absolutely no question at all at which stage I > had >> > the >> >> lighter impact. >> >> Why didn't you respond to this? > > I did further down. You tap-danced around it further down. >> My response was to your reply "even if it were true" referring to the >> *impact* of an urban vegan diet compared to a rural self-sufficient > one. It >> wasn't about health. Here is an example of the irrationality I am > talking >> about. When I try to have a conversation with you about one thing, you >> change the subject, presumably because you don't like the way things > are >> going. > > You just want to compare the best (fringe) of > meat eating to the worst (urban) of vegan. There's that tap dancing again. What is wrong with comparing diets? Why should some diets or foods not be compared to one another? What is the operative principle that says that this food "A" shall not be compared against this food "B". > I don't find your fringe diet reasonable because > it involves an intentional death Your diet involves intentional deaths. > and the eating > of a dead body. Dead bodies cannot suffer harm. > You're trying to claim it's > better than urban veganism due to less deaths. > I've seen no proof of that. Use your common sense. There is plenty of evidence of the effects of machinery in crops fields and of poisons like herbicides. > I'm doubtful that > cds are as high as claimed in plant foods. There is no specific amount claimed, it varies. > Health comes into the picture because it's > foremost my motivation. I believe my urban > diet is healthier than your meat eating rural > one. Another diversion to avoid addressing the issue. > If you are looking for a pat on the back > for being better than other meat eaters, you > probably are, compared to urban meat > eaters. I'm an urban meat eater. >> > As for your statement, you could have >> > farmed veganically, but you raised >> > animals to eat. I know you said you >> > pastured a cow, but what about pigs >> > and chickens, did you grow their foods? >> >> Quite a lot of it, not all. Besides pasture and alfalfa and a > vegetable >> garden we also had fields of oats and wheat. > > If you were vegetarian you could have had > a 0 death farm. Right, so what? I still had a much lighter impact than urban vegans like you. Everything I consumed was either grown myself or obtained from neighbours. >> > Maybe your death toll was low, but it >> > could have been 0. That's how I see >> > it. >> >> I question the use of the absolute "0", but yes it could have been > lower, >> but it was already much lower than the typical urban vegan, which is > the >> point I am making. > > Maybe. But your way involves dead body > eating. It's not an option to a veg*n even > though you want to promote it as one. No I don't, there's another diversion. I have told you at least five times that I'm not suggesting you change your diet. Maybe an all-plant diet is ideal for you, although I doubt it. >> > You could have farmed with a 0 death toll >> > but you didn't. >> >> Your diet doesn't have a zero death toll, how come you're so pleased > with it >> and not with a lifestyle that is much better? > > I'm pretty sure that it's close to 0. I don't > believe there are very many cds. You are dreaming in technicolor lady. My own farm in Saskatchewan uses loads of herbicides, the Okanagan fruit orchards are so laden with pesticides people with kids are moving away. Studies have shown that field animal populations are decimated by machinery. >> > Unless the only animals >> > were for milk and eggs, then you had to >> > kill some for meat. If you killed none >> > for meat, then I would say you did good >> > by my standards. >> >> What does it matter if the killing was for meat? The killing was > *low*, >> that's what matters to animals. > > The killing for meat is repulsive to vegetarians. Maybe the killing for vegetables is repulsive to meat-eaters. So what? > Don't you realize that by now? No one's > converting to your meat diets. You're playing games, I'm not trying to change your diet, I'm telling you that the vegan *ideal* is not always ideal, as adherents love to believe. All your tap-dancing around just proves my point. > >> > My needs are my own. You are not in a >> > position to tell me my needs, nor are you >> > in a position to tell me I don't decide it >> > for myself. >> >> Everyone needs to think clearly and without irrational biases. > > Then stop being irrationally biased against > my diet. Your diet is not the issue, your narrow-minded attitude is the issue. >> >> >> Everyone is an embodiment of the divine. >> >> > >> >> > That's your religion, not mine. >> >> >> >> It's not a religion, it's just life. >> > >> > Talk of the devine indicates you're >> > referring to a religious theme. >> >> I'm following the metaphor, call it whatever you like. > > Nonsense. That was a religious statement > no matter what you want to call it. No thanks. > I've got my own religion. I'm not looking for > a new one. YOU started the references to God by saying "Who do you think you are, God?" I was just trying to talk on your level. I don't believe in any religion. >> > He didn't lose some skirmishes. >> >> Of course he did, you aren't even paying attention. > > I saw him 'win' some logical arguments. I can't imagine how you'd know. > >> > What kind >> > of factor are you talking about? >> >> He has a prejudice against "conventional wisdom" for one, as if > anything >> widely thought to be true must be wrong. > > I don't remember him claiming that anything > widely thought to be true must be wrong. Look for the comment "spoon-fed". >> > My personal recipe site is just for my own stuff, but if >> > you were to make a website of your own veg recipes, >> > I'll list you on my directory site. >> >> Fair enough. > > I'm very open minded when it comes to my listed > sites. As long as it's veggie, all comers are > welcome or whatever that saying is. It's encouraging to see you're open-minded about *something*, even if has to be your personal website. |
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"Scented Nectar" > wrote
>> There you go again, why do you assume that because I believe *you* > have >> poorly thought-out ideas that I think everyone does? > > I've seen the way you interact with others on > these newsgroups. You treat people like > shit, always thinking and claiming negative > things about them. I calls 'em like I sees 'em. People make a lot of bad arguments. >> > There's no narrow path to moral unrightness. >> >> If you truly believed that then you would not have concluded that my > rural >> self-sufficient lifestyle was deficient if I killed animals for meat. > > You had a great opportunity to grow all your > own food veganically, but instead raised > animals for killing. That's your choice to > make, but don't expect me to be thrilled > about it. I don't, I expect you have the courage to admit that my lifestyle involved very little killing, compared to the carnage supported by consumers of big-business imported into the City, commerically grown, processed and packaged plant food fare. You persist in assuming moral superiority of a diet and lifestyle that is categorically not superior. >> > What were you on when you wrote that? I >> > have a very open mind. You don't, I think. >> > I'm accepting of the many various reasons >> > and motivations people have for going >> > vegan. There's religion, health, animal >> > rights, allergies, etc. You're not accepting >> > of those. Your mind is closed. >> >> I see them all very clearly, to you they're a muddle. > > No muddle. There's a wide variety to > veg*ns. You again are insulting by claiming > me to be muddled when in fact I am > experiencing no such thing. You are demonstrating it in every post. >> > I question your ability to identify mental confusion. >> >> Since it's you that is confused that is not surprising. > > I'm not confused about anything other than > what you get out of trolling. I'm not trolling. >> > An example of how you insult is above. You >> > claim I'm on a moral quest for the holy grail. >> >> The desire to remove animal products and become "vegan". > > I'm very content to simply do what I can, > healthwise. Absolutely irrevelant. >> > You claim I deliberately fail to recognize >> > things YOU believe to be true. >> >> It's a fact. > > So let it go. Accept that I have different > beliefs than you. Of course you do, that's the basis for our debate. >Unless you can do that, > we're going nowhere. Good, I just accepted it. Where are we going? >> > You claim >> > I'm in trouble and don't know it. >> >> Also a fact. > > Nonsense. No, sense. >> > You're >> > always being so negative around me. >> >> Your blind stubborness invites it. > > I stubbornly don't need your help, get it? You need it, you just don't know it. >> > What's your problem with people being >> > content with their lives UNCHANGED >> > by you? >> >> No problem at all for me. What is your problem with change? > > I change on my terms and when I feel it's > necessary. How do you have the gall to > assume I want to take on your prescribed > changes? If you were content to just go merrily on your way you'd do it, but you don't. You keep coming back for more, what else am I to think except that deep down you are crying out for help? |
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"Ron" > wrote in message ... > In article > . net>, > "rick" > wrote: > >> "Ron" > wrote in message >> ... >> > In article >> > . net>, >> > "rick" > wrote: >> > >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message >> >> ... >> >> > In article >, >> >> > "Scented Nectar" > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> > I never thought of Monarch Park Collegiate as a >> >> >> > tourist >> >> >> > trap >> >> >> > though. I'm sure the school would be surprised. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Do you figure that every Torontonian >> >> >> went to Monarch Park? You made >> >> >> this same assumption when talking >> >> >> to Ron. >> >> > >> >> > I think the desire outcome is for you to say "I went >> >> > to..." >> >> > There is a >> >> > consistent effort here to obtain personal information. >> >> ======================= >> >> LOL Nope. I care not where you or stinky are really from. >> >> I >> >> mentioned it because I happen to know about it because I >> >> have >> >> been there, and continue to go there for symposiums. I'm >> >> still >> >> sure that they would be surprised at being a tourist trap. >> > >> > "Symposiums" in high schools???? >> ==================== >> Ah yes, the typical 'how it looks' to you spew. Tell me, how >> does the venue change the content of what the symposium is >> offering? But then, to queer-boys like you, it is all about >> image, eh pansy? > > Well, what are the symposiums? I could understand a symposium > at > Convocation Hall, Metro Convention Centre, or any of the > buildings in > these areas, but Monarch Park. ======================= Why, fool? Again, what does the venue have to do with content? I guess you're just too image conscience to understand that, eh pansy-boy? Monarch has a 700 seat auditorium that fits the bill quite well. By not being as consumed by image as much as you seem to be the association was able to give 10K to an organization it supports. But then, queer-boys like you would rather make sure you look good rather than improve your stupidity and ignorance. > > >> Besides, what's with trying to hype up high schools in canada >> by >> calling them collegiates? Again, looks like image before >> function... 5-letter word indeed... >> >> >> >> Canoe North >> http://home.earthlink.net/~etterr/ |
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In article et>,
"rick" > wrote: > "Ron" > wrote in message > ... > > In article > > . net>, > > "rick" > wrote: > > > >> "Ron" > wrote in message > >> ... > >> > In article > >> > . net>, > >> > "rick" > wrote: > >> > > >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message > >> >> ... > >> >> > In article >, > >> >> > "Scented Nectar" > wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> > I never thought of Monarch Park Collegiate as a > >> >> >> > tourist > >> >> >> > trap > >> >> >> > though. I'm sure the school would be surprised. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Do you figure that every Torontonian > >> >> >> went to Monarch Park? You made > >> >> >> this same assumption when talking > >> >> >> to Ron. > >> >> > > >> >> > I think the desire outcome is for you to say "I went > >> >> > to..." > >> >> > There is a > >> >> > consistent effort here to obtain personal information. > >> >> ======================= > >> >> LOL Nope. I care not where you or stinky are really from. > >> >> I > >> >> mentioned it because I happen to know about it because I > >> >> have > >> >> been there, and continue to go there for symposiums. I'm > >> >> still > >> >> sure that they would be surprised at being a tourist trap. > >> > > >> > "Symposiums" in high schools???? > >> ==================== > >> Ah yes, the typical 'how it looks' to you spew. Tell me, how > >> does the venue change the content of what the symposium is > >> offering? But then, to queer-boys like you, it is all about > >> image, eh pansy? > > > > Well, what are the symposiums? I could understand a symposium > > at > > Convocation Hall, Metro Convention Centre, or any of the > > buildings in > > these areas, but Monarch Park. > ======================= > Why, fool? Again, what does the venue have to do with content? > I guess you're just too image conscience to understand that, eh > pansy-boy? Monarch has a 700 seat auditorium that fits the bill > quite well. By not being as consumed by image as much as you > seem to be the association was able to give 10K to an > organization it supports. But then, queer-boys like you would > rather make sure you look good rather than improve your stupidity > and ignorance. I know. All the experts in most fields are rushing to book space at Monarch Park. Although, I wouldn't consider a local open house to be a symposium. |
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"Ron" > wrote in message ... > In article > et>, > "rick" > wrote: > >> "Ron" > wrote in message >> ... >> > In article >> > . net>, >> > "rick" > wrote: >> > >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message >> >> ... >> >> > In article >> >> > . net>, >> >> > "rick" > wrote: >> >> > >> >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message >> >> >> ... >> >> >> > In article >, >> >> >> > "Scented Nectar" > wrote: >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > I never thought of Monarch Park Collegiate as a >> >> >> >> > tourist >> >> >> >> > trap >> >> >> >> > though. I'm sure the school would be surprised. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Do you figure that every Torontonian >> >> >> >> went to Monarch Park? You made >> >> >> >> this same assumption when talking >> >> >> >> to Ron. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > I think the desire outcome is for you to say "I went >> >> >> > to..." >> >> >> > There is a >> >> >> > consistent effort here to obtain personal information. >> >> >> ======================= >> >> >> LOL Nope. I care not where you or stinky are really >> >> >> from. >> >> >> I >> >> >> mentioned it because I happen to know about it because I >> >> >> have >> >> >> been there, and continue to go there for symposiums. >> >> >> I'm >> >> >> still >> >> >> sure that they would be surprised at being a tourist >> >> >> trap. >> >> > >> >> > "Symposiums" in high schools???? >> >> ==================== >> >> Ah yes, the typical 'how it looks' to you spew. Tell me, >> >> how >> >> does the venue change the content of what the symposium is >> >> offering? But then, to queer-boys like you, it is all >> >> about >> >> image, eh pansy? >> > >> > Well, what are the symposiums? I could understand a >> > symposium >> > at >> > Convocation Hall, Metro Convention Centre, or any of the >> > buildings in >> > these areas, but Monarch Park. >> ======================= >> Why, fool? Again, what does the venue have to do with >> content? >> I guess you're just too image conscience to understand that, >> eh >> pansy-boy? Monarch has a 700 seat auditorium that fits the >> bill >> quite well. By not being as consumed by image as much as you >> seem to be the association was able to give 10K to an >> organization it supports. But then, queer-boys like you would >> rather make sure you look good rather than improve your >> stupidity >> and ignorance. > > I know. All the experts in most fields are rushing to book > space at > Monarch Park. Although, I wouldn't consider a local open house > to be a > symposium. ====================== I see you see have nothing but dodging, eh pansy? |
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In article . net>,
"rick" > wrote: > "Ron" > wrote in message > ... > > In article > > et>, > > "rick" > wrote: > > > >> "Ron" > wrote in message > >> ... > >> > In article > >> > . net>, > >> > "rick" > wrote: > >> > > >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message > >> >> ... > >> >> > In article > >> >> > . net>, > >> >> > "rick" > wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message > >> >> >> ... > >> >> >> > In article >, > >> >> >> > "Scented Nectar" > wrote: > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> >> > I never thought of Monarch Park Collegiate as a > >> >> >> >> > tourist > >> >> >> >> > trap > >> >> >> >> > though. I'm sure the school would be surprised. > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> Do you figure that every Torontonian > >> >> >> >> went to Monarch Park? You made > >> >> >> >> this same assumption when talking > >> >> >> >> to Ron. > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > I think the desire outcome is for you to say "I went > >> >> >> > to..." > >> >> >> > There is a > >> >> >> > consistent effort here to obtain personal information. > >> >> >> ======================= > >> >> >> LOL Nope. I care not where you or stinky are really > >> >> >> from. > >> >> >> I > >> >> >> mentioned it because I happen to know about it because I > >> >> >> have > >> >> >> been there, and continue to go there for symposiums. > >> >> >> I'm > >> >> >> still > >> >> >> sure that they would be surprised at being a tourist > >> >> >> trap. > >> >> > > >> >> > "Symposiums" in high schools???? > >> >> ==================== > >> >> Ah yes, the typical 'how it looks' to you spew. Tell me, > >> >> how > >> >> does the venue change the content of what the symposium is > >> >> offering? But then, to queer-boys like you, it is all > >> >> about > >> >> image, eh pansy? > >> > > >> > Well, what are the symposiums? I could understand a > >> > symposium > >> > at > >> > Convocation Hall, Metro Convention Centre, or any of the > >> > buildings in > >> > these areas, but Monarch Park. > >> ======================= > >> Why, fool? Again, what does the venue have to do with > >> content? > >> I guess you're just too image conscience to understand that, > >> eh > >> pansy-boy? Monarch has a 700 seat auditorium that fits the > >> bill > >> quite well. By not being as consumed by image as much as you > >> seem to be the association was able to give 10K to an > >> organization it supports. But then, queer-boys like you would > >> rather make sure you look good rather than improve your > >> stupidity > >> and ignorance. > > > > I know. All the experts in most fields are rushing to book > > space at > > Monarch Park. Although, I wouldn't consider a local open house > > to be a > > symposium. > ====================== > I see you see have nothing but dodging, eh pansy? It is a simple question, rick. What symposiums do you attend at Toronto high schools? |
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> > You just want to compare the best (fringe) of
> > meat eating to the worst (urban) of vegan. > > There's that tap dancing again. What is wrong with comparing diets? Why > should some diets or foods not be compared to one another? What is the > operative principle that says that this food "A" shall not be compared > against this food "B". The comparison you want to make is the best of yours to the worst of ours. How fair is that? > > I don't find your fringe diet reasonable because > > it involves an intentional death > > Your diet involves intentional deaths. I have no proof of that. And it could be one dead rat for every hundred servings of grain or it could be a dozen. But it doesn't matter. Since the eating of a dead body is not an option for me, your ideal rural meat farm is not something I can give my seal of approval to. > > and the eating > > of a dead body. > > Dead bodies cannot suffer harm. No, but they can cause harm, healthwise. > > You're trying to claim it's > > better than urban veganism due to less deaths. > > I've seen no proof of that. > > Use your common sense. There is plenty of evidence of the effects of > machinery in crops fields and of poisons like herbicides. How much machinery did you use on your alfalfa and grains? How much herbicides? > > I'm doubtful that > > cds are as high as claimed in plant foods. > > There is no specific amount claimed, it varies. Then there is no way of knowing until someone does studies on it. > > Health comes into the picture because it's > > foremost my motivation. I believe my urban > > diet is healthier than your meat eating rural > > one. > > Another diversion to avoid addressing the issue. Not a diversion. Just letting you know why I don't accept your diet as better no matter how few deaths you claim (and which I don't have proof of). > > If you are looking for a pat on the back > > for being better than other meat eaters, you > > probably are, compared to urban meat > > eaters. > > I'm an urban meat eater. Then you probably were. > >> > As for your statement, you could have > >> > farmed veganically, but you raised > >> > animals to eat. I know you said you > >> > pastured a cow, but what about pigs > >> > and chickens, did you grow their foods? > >> > >> Quite a lot of it, not all. Besides pasture and alfalfa and a > > vegetable > >> garden we also had fields of oats and wheat. > > > > If you were vegetarian you could have had > > a 0 death farm. > > Right, so what? I still had a much lighter impact than urban vegans like > you. Everything I consumed was either grown myself or obtained from > neighbours. How did you harvest your oats and wheat? How did your neighbours? > >> > Maybe your death toll was low, but it > >> > could have been 0. That's how I see > >> > it. > >> > >> I question the use of the absolute "0", but yes it could have been > > lower, > >> but it was already much lower than the typical urban vegan, which is > > the > >> point I am making. > > > > Maybe. But your way involves dead body > > eating. It's not an option to a veg*n even > > though you want to promote it as one. > > No I don't, there's another diversion. I have told you at least five times > that I'm not suggesting you change your diet. Maybe an all-plant diet is > ideal for you, although I doubt it. It's no diversion. You keep wanting praise for your rural meat diet. I'm the wrong person to ask for that. > >> > You could have farmed with a 0 death toll > >> > but you didn't. > >> > >> Your diet doesn't have a zero death toll, how come you're so pleased > > with it > >> and not with a lifestyle that is much better? > > > > I'm pretty sure that it's close to 0. I don't > > believe there are very many cds. > > You are dreaming in technicolor lady. My own farm in Saskatchewan uses loads > of herbicides, the Okanagan fruit orchards are so laden with pesticides > people with kids are moving away. > > Studies have shown that field animal populations are decimated by machinery. So your farm is not as low on deaths as you would have us believe. > >> > Unless the only animals > >> > were for milk and eggs, then you had to > >> > kill some for meat. If you killed none > >> > for meat, then I would say you did good > >> > by my standards. > >> > >> What does it matter if the killing was for meat? The killing was > > *low*, > >> that's what matters to animals. > > > > The killing for meat is repulsive to vegetarians. > > Maybe the killing for vegetables is repulsive to meat-eaters. So what? So you don't have to eat them. I wouldn't harass you to agree that eating vegetables is better. > > Don't you realize that by now? No one's > > converting to your meat diets. > > You're playing games, I'm not trying to change your diet, I'm telling you > that the vegan *ideal* is not always ideal, as adherents love to believe. No diet is always ideal. It's what you make of it. You are trying to convince the wrong person. > >> > My needs are my own. You are not in a > >> > position to tell me my needs, nor are you > >> > in a position to tell me I don't decide it > >> > for myself. > >> > >> Everyone needs to think clearly and without irrational biases. > > > > Then stop being irrationally biased against > > my diet. > > Your diet is not the issue, your narrow-minded attitude is the issue. I find you to be narrow minded. By declaring yourself to be the one who determines my needs, what diet do I need? Hah, you are trying to convert me to a meat eating diet. > >> >> >> Everyone is an embodiment of the divine. > >> >> > > >> >> > That's your religion, not mine. > >> >> > >> >> It's not a religion, it's just life. > >> > > >> > Talk of the devine indicates you're > >> > referring to a religious theme. > >> > >> I'm following the metaphor, call it whatever you like. > > > > Nonsense. That was a religious statement > > no matter what you want to call it. No thanks. > > I've got my own religion. I'm not looking for > > a new one. > > YOU started the references to God by saying "Who do you think you are, God?" > I was just trying to talk on your level. I don't believe in any religion. You weren't just trying to talk on my level. I suspect you actually believe what you wrote about the divine. > >> > He didn't lose some skirmishes. > >> > >> Of course he did, you aren't even paying attention. > > > > I saw him 'win' some logical arguments. > > I can't imagine how you'd know. Hello. I can read. -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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> > I've seen the way you interact with others on
> > these newsgroups. You treat people like > > shit, always thinking and claiming negative > > things about them. > > I calls 'em like I sees 'em. People make a lot of bad arguments. I think you just see the negative worst possibilities in people. > I don't, I expect you have the courage to admit that my lifestyle involved > very little killing, compared to the carnage supported by consumers of > big-business imported into the City, commerically grown, processed and > packaged plant food fare. You persist in assuming moral superiority of a > diet and lifestyle that is categorically not superior. I'm not convinced that your diet involved less killing than an urban vegan one. Especially an urban organic one. So I'll not 'admit' to something I don't believe. > >> > An example of how you insult is above. You > >> > claim I'm on a moral quest for the holy grail. > >> > >> The desire to remove animal products and become "vegan". > > > > I'm very content to simply do what I can, > > healthwise. > > Absolutely irrevelant. Not irrelevant. Health is my main motivation dietwise. I believe it's also better for the animals but that's really just a bonus for me. If I really believed it was healthier to eat meat I would. > > So let it go. Accept that I have different > > beliefs than you. > > Of course you do, that's the basis for our debate. > > >Unless you can do that, > > we're going nowhere. > > Good, I just accepted it. Where are we going? Hopefully not in more circles. > >> > You claim > >> > I'm in trouble and don't know it. > >> > >> Also a fact. > > > > Nonsense. > > No, sense. What dire trouble am I in? > >> > You're > >> > always being so negative around me. > >> > >> Your blind stubborness invites it. > > > > I stubbornly don't need your help, get it? > > You need it, you just don't know it. As part of your help, let me guess, you would have me eating a meat including diet, right? Or at least praising one? > > I change on my terms and when I feel it's > > necessary. How do you have the gall to > > assume I want to take on your prescribed > > changes? > > If you were content to just go merrily on your way you'd do it, but you > don't. You keep coming back for more, what else am I to think except that > deep down you are crying out for help? Try this out for size. I'm here because my veg*n diet makes this group of interest to me. Why are you here? -- SN http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/ A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites. Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button. |
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