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-   -   "Vegans!" Show your stuff (https://www.foodbanter.com/vegan/52963-vegans-show-your-stuff.html)

Rudy Canoza 31-01-2005 03:36 AM

"Vegans!" Show your stuff
 
Naturally, it's open to anyone.

Take the quiz. State whether you agree or disagree
with the following statements. It's helpful, but not
necessary, to give your reasoning (if you have any.)
Also state whether or not you are a "vegan" or have
significant sympathy for "veganism" and "animal
rights", where "vegan" means refraining from consuming
animal-originating products for ethical reasons.


1. Military service should be voluntary (no draft).


2. Government should not control radio, tv, the

press or the internet.


3. Repeal regulations on sex between consenting adults.

4. Drug laws do more harm than good. Repeal them.

5. Let peaceful people cross borders freely.

6. Businesses & farms should operate without any
governmental subsidies.

7. People are better off with free trade than with
tariffs.

8. Minimum wage laws cause unemployment. Repeal them.

9. End taxes. Pay for services with user fees.

10. All foreign Aid should be privately funded.

Ron 31-01-2005 04:05 AM

In article et>,
Rudy Canoza > wrote:

> 1. Military service should be voluntary (no draft).
>


Military service should be mandatory. Military service should begin at
age 65. Parents are less likely to refrain from producing children if
they know there children aren't going to be conscripted and killed in
war. The elderly have had their chance and benefit greatly in our
current system. You want medicaid -- work for it baby.

Most wars are fought not for the values of the young, but for the old
timers. Let's the old timers fight their own battles. It's easy to
support the mandatory conscription of those between 18 and 25 when one
is outside of that age range or uses marriage as an excuse not to fight.
Cowards, left, right and centre.

If you can pick up a golf club, you can pick up a weapon.

Dutch 31-01-2005 06:38 AM


"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article et>,
> Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>
>> 1. Military service should be voluntary (no draft).
>>

>
> Military service should be mandatory. Military service should begin at
> age 65.


Military service should be conducted exclusively by *** people.



Dutch 31-01-2005 11:25 AM


"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Dutch" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article et>,
>> > Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>> >
>> >> 1. Military service should be voluntary (no draft).
>> >>
>> >
>> > Military service should be mandatory. Military service should begin at
>> > age 65.

>>
>> Military service should be conducted exclusively by *** people.

>
> You could address my argument or provide some explanation for your own.
>
> My answer was sincere. It is quite odd that we would sacrifice the
> young.


When I was young, poor and of draft age, I though all wars should be
abolished. As I aged, accumulated wealth and priviledge, and passed the age
of enlistment, I began to see the wisdom in having young, strong people
defend my wealth..I mean country.



C. James Strutz 31-01-2005 03:55 PM


"Rudy Canoza" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Naturally, it's open to anyone.
>
> Take the quiz. State whether you agree or disagree with the following
> statements. It's helpful, but not necessary, to give your reasoning (if
> you have any.) Also state whether or not you are a "vegan" or have
> significant sympathy for "veganism" and "animal rights", where "vegan"
> means refraining from consuming animal-originating products for ethical
> reasons.


I am not vegan, but I am vegetarian and consider myself politically neutral
(Independent). Most liberal leaning people think I'm conservative and most
conservative leaning people think I'm liberal. This quiz seems to focus on
only a few social and economic issues and not as much on other important
issues like human rights, the environment, energy, health care, etc. What
can you expect with just 10 questions? So I don't know how good of a gauge
it is for determining someone's political and/or social leanings. Some of
these questions aren't easy to answer because there are complicated pros and
cons. While I generally believe that things like economics should be left to
regulate itself and let the chips fall where they may, the world playing
field isn't exactly level. Some artificial controls must remain until there
is more equalibrium. Consequently, I tended to be more idealistic than
practical in answering these questions.

> 1. Military service should be voluntary (no draft).


Agree. It has been shown that voluntary works much better than manditory for
the military. Example: Vietnam.

> 2. Government should not control radio, tv, the press or the internet.


I agree that the government should control the media infrastructure, but not
content.

> 3. Repeal regulations on sex between consenting adults.


Sex between consenting adults should not be regulated but solicitation and
decency should be regulated.

> 4. Drug laws do more harm than good. Repeal them.


Generally disagree. Possibly consider legalizing marijuana since it doesn't
seem any worse than alcohol and might even have some medicinal value. Reap
tax revenues while saving enforcement costs and creating legitimate jobs.

> 5. Let peaceful people cross borders freely.


Disagree. The problem is how to know whether people are peaceful. There must
be strict border security, especially during these times of terrorism.

> 6. Businesses & farms should operate without any
> governmental subsidies.


Agree. Artificially propping up companies with tax revenues is like a house
of cards - eventually it will crash.

> 7. People are better off with free trade than with tariffs.


Removing trade barriers allows companies to manufacture goods where costs
are lower. This, in turn, makes products more affordable for everybody.

> 8. Minimum wage laws cause unemployment. Repeal them.


I agree that there should not be minimum wage laws but not that they cause
unemployment. I think it instead redistributes employment.

> 9. End taxes. Pay for services with user fees.


Disagree. Countries need tax revenues to fund military, government programs,
etc. I believe there should be a flat tax where citizens pay a fixed
percentage of their wages.

> 10. All foreign Aid should be privately funded.


Disagree. There should be foreign aid to help countries effected by natural
disasters, epidemics, etc. as a minimum. However, I don't think it should be
used as a political device.



Ron 01-02-2005 02:31 AM

In article >,
"C. James Strutz" > wrote:

> Consequently, I tended to be more idealistic than
> practical in answering these questions.


I had several comments, but the objective of the quiz was to determine
our political leanings. I'll leave it at that for the moment.

Ron 01-02-2005 02:58 AM

In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article et>,
> >> > Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> 1. Military service should be voluntary (no draft).
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Military service should be mandatory. Military service should begin at
> >> > age 65.
> >>
> >> Military service should be conducted exclusively by *** people.

> >
> > You could address my argument or provide some explanation for your own.
> >
> > My answer was sincere. It is quite odd that we would sacrifice the
> > young.

>
> When I was young, poor and of draft age, I though all wars should be
> abolished. As I aged, accumulated wealth and priviledge, and passed the age
> of enlistment, I began to see the wisdom in having young, strong people
> defend my wealth..I mean country.


Whose wealth is it? Who should protect it?

C. James Strutz 01-02-2005 03:00 AM


"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
>
> > Consequently, I tended to be more idealistic than
> > practical in answering these questions.

>
> I had several comments, but the objective of the quiz was to determine
> our political leanings. I'll leave it at that for the moment.


Then the mission was accomplished, wasn't it?! Speak your mind...



Ron 01-02-2005 03:05 AM

In article >,
"C. James Strutz" > wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
> >
> > > Consequently, I tended to be more idealistic than
> > > practical in answering these questions.

> >
> > I had several comments, but the objective of the quiz was to determine
> > our political leanings. I'll leave it at that for the moment.

>
> Then the mission was accomplished, wasn't it?! Speak your mind...


To begin, I thought your position on drafts to be rather limited in
scope. There are many examples outside of the USA past and present where
mandatory service has proved successful for government and the people
that were being protected.

C. James Strutz 01-02-2005 04:23 AM


"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
>
> > "Ron" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > In article >,
> > > "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Consequently, I tended to be more idealistic than
> > > > practical in answering these questions.
> > >
> > > I had several comments, but the objective of the quiz was to determine
> > > our political leanings. I'll leave it at that for the moment.

> >
> > Then the mission was accomplished, wasn't it?! Speak your mind...

>
> To begin, I thought your position on drafts to be rather limited in
> scope. There are many examples outside of the USA past and present where
> mandatory service has proved successful for government and the people
> that were being protected.



Give me an example.



Ron 01-02-2005 06:05 AM

In article >,
"C. James Strutz" > wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
> >
> > > "Ron" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > In article >,
> > > > "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Consequently, I tended to be more idealistic than
> > > > > practical in answering these questions.
> > > >
> > > > I had several comments, but the objective of the quiz was to determine
> > > > our political leanings. I'll leave it at that for the moment.
> > >
> > > Then the mission was accomplished, wasn't it?! Speak your mind...

> >
> > To begin, I thought your position on drafts to be rather limited in
> > scope. There are many examples outside of the USA past and present where
> > mandatory service has proved successful for government and the people
> > that were being protected.

>
>
> Give me an example.


WWII, Israel. Switzerland all have mandatory service and appear to have
varying degrees of success through the conscription process. In addition
to the short term goals in a conflict situation, there are also the
repurcussions of voluntary services. By this, I mean the use of young
people to further a political objective in a war.

There is an issue of cost. A young person wounded or maimed then becomes
the responsibility of the state for decades. The cost of maintaining and
providing pensions and services is very expensive. The loss of life of a
young person on the economy, their ability to reproduce and the ripple
through society against producing children only to be sent off to war is
another "cost".

Voluntary services also creates a different dichotomy in that service is
voluntary it is also the result of economic depression in certain areas
that drives the desire and need to join the services. By this, I mean
that armed services provide benefits and training to those who have
little intention of making service a career but only as an "employment"
program to make up for the deficiences in government or the local
economy. Or as a means to achieve a career that was otherwise perceived
as unattainable.

There are also other post-war costs where those in service are so
affected that there ability to function daily is greatly impeded. As
technology has greatly improved in the past 5 decades, the requirement
of young, able-bodied people has lessened. Many of the same functions
and results can be achieved by people who are older, more mature and
have the life skills to manage the rigors of what the job demands.

Generalizing, the young aren't equipped in the same way to deal with the
realities of war, injuries, and dying in the way that maturity provides.

C. James Strutz 01-02-2005 02:12 PM


"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article >,
> "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
>
>> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >,
>> > "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
>> >
>> > > "Ron" > wrote in message
>> > > ...
>> > > > In article >,
>> > > > "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > Consequently, I tended to be more idealistic than
>> > > > > practical in answering these questions.
>> > > >
>> > > > I had several comments, but the objective of the quiz was to
>> > > > determine
>> > > > our political leanings. I'll leave it at that for the moment.
>> > >
>> > > Then the mission was accomplished, wasn't it?! Speak your mind...
>> >
>> > To begin, I thought your position on drafts to be rather limited in
>> > scope. There are many examples outside of the USA past and present
>> > where
>> > mandatory service has proved successful for government and the people
>> > that were being protected.

>>
>>
>> Give me an example.

>
> WWII, Israel. Switzerland all have mandatory service and appear to have
> varying degrees of success through the conscription process.


Okay, good points.

> Generalizing, the young aren't equipped in the same way to deal with the
> realities of war, injuries, and dying in the way that maturity provides.


I understand what you're saying and I agree to a point. However, there still
is hand-to-hand combat and younger people are more able to perform well in
those roles than older people.

So then, are you for or against a military draft?



Ron 01-02-2005 04:06 PM

In article >,
"C. James Strutz" > wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >,
> > "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
> >
> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article >,
> >> > "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> > > ...
> >> > > > In article >,
> >> > > > "C. James Strutz" > wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > > Consequently, I tended to be more idealistic than
> >> > > > > practical in answering these questions.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > I had several comments, but the objective of the quiz was to
> >> > > > determine
> >> > > > our political leanings. I'll leave it at that for the moment.
> >> > >
> >> > > Then the mission was accomplished, wasn't it?! Speak your mind...
> >> >
> >> > To begin, I thought your position on drafts to be rather limited in
> >> > scope. There are many examples outside of the USA past and present
> >> > where
> >> > mandatory service has proved successful for government and the people
> >> > that were being protected.
> >>
> >>
> >> Give me an example.

> >
> > WWII, Israel. Switzerland all have mandatory service and appear to have
> > varying degrees of success through the conscription process.

>
> Okay, good points.
>
> > Generalizing, the young aren't equipped in the same way to deal with the
> > realities of war, injuries, and dying in the way that maturity provides.

>
> I understand what you're saying and I agree to a point. However, there still
> is hand-to-hand combat and younger people are more able to perform well in
> those roles than older people.
>
> So then, are you for or against a military draft?


I am in favour a mandatory elderly armed forces. Enjoy the freedoms and
fruits of the country in which you live. As you get on in years there is
an expectation that you will repay that which you have been granted,
provided and has been protected for you.

menu boy 01-02-2005 08:16 PM


"Rudy Canoza" > wrote in message
> 1. Military service should be voluntary (no draft).
>
>
> 2. Government should not control radio, tv, the
>
> press or the internet.
>
>
> 3. Repeal regulations on sex between consenting adults.
>
> 4. Drug laws do more harm than good. Repeal them.
>
> 5. Let peaceful people cross borders freely.
>
> 6. Businesses & farms should operate without any
> governmental subsidies.
>
> 7. People are better off with free trade than with
> tariffs.
>
> 8. Minimum wage laws cause unemployment. Repeal them.
>
> 9. End taxes. Pay for services with user fees.
>
> 10. All foreign Aid should be privately funded.


11. Rudy should have his salad tossed in a Turkish prison.



Dutch 01-02-2005 10:08 PM


"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Dutch" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >, "Dutch" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > In article et>,
>> >> > Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> 1. Military service should be voluntary (no draft).
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > Military service should be mandatory. Military service should begin
>> >> > at
>> >> > age 65.
>> >>
>> >> Military service should be conducted exclusively by *** people.
>> >
>> > You could address my argument or provide some explanation for your own.
>> >
>> > My answer was sincere. It is quite odd that we would sacrifice the
>> > young.

>>
>> When I was young, poor and of draft age, I though all wars should be
>> abolished. As I aged, accumulated wealth and priviledge, and passed the
>> age
>> of enlistment, I began to see the wisdom in having young, strong people
>> defend my wealth..I mean country.

>
> Whose wealth is it? Who should protect it?


It was a tongue-in-cheek response ;^\



Ron 02-02-2005 02:37 AM

In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > In article et>,
> >> >> > Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> 1. Military service should be voluntary (no draft).
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Military service should be mandatory. Military service should begin
> >> >> > at
> >> >> > age 65.
> >> >>
> >> >> Military service should be conducted exclusively by *** people.
> >> >
> >> > You could address my argument or provide some explanation for your own.
> >> >
> >> > My answer was sincere. It is quite odd that we would sacrifice the
> >> > young.
> >>
> >> When I was young, poor and of draft age, I though all wars should be
> >> abolished. As I aged, accumulated wealth and priviledge, and passed the
> >> age
> >> of enlistment, I began to see the wisdom in having young, strong people
> >> defend my wealth..I mean country.

> >
> > Whose wealth is it? Who should protect it?

>
> It was a tongue-in-cheek response ;^\


Then a different question: whose country is it? Who should defend it?

Dutch 02-02-2005 05:23 AM


"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Dutch" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >, "Dutch" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> >> ...
>> >> > In article >, "Dutch"
>> >> > >
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> > In article et>,
>> >> >> > Rudy Canoza > wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> 1. Military service should be voluntary (no draft).
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Military service should be mandatory. Military service should
>> >> >> > begin
>> >> >> > at
>> >> >> > age 65.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Military service should be conducted exclusively by *** people.
>> >> >
>> >> > You could address my argument or provide some explanation for your
>> >> > own.
>> >> >
>> >> > My answer was sincere. It is quite odd that we would sacrifice the
>> >> > young.
>> >>
>> >> When I was young, poor and of draft age, I though all wars should be
>> >> abolished. As I aged, accumulated wealth and priviledge, and passed
>> >> the
>> >> age
>> >> of enlistment, I began to see the wisdom in having young, strong
>> >> people
>> >> defend my wealth..I mean country.
>> >
>> > Whose wealth is it? Who should protect it?

>>
>> It was a tongue-in-cheek response ;^\

>
> Then a different question: whose country is it?


Everyone who owns a piece..

> Who should defend it?


From what?



Ron 02-02-2005 10:24 AM

In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> >> ...
> >> >> > In article >, "Dutch"
> >> >> > >
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> >> >> ...
> >> >> >> > In article et>,
> >> >> >> > Rudy Canoza > wrote:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >> 1. Military service should be voluntary (no draft).
> >> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Military service should be mandatory. Military service should
> >> >> >> > begin
> >> >> >> > at
> >> >> >> > age 65.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> Military service should be conducted exclusively by *** people.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > You could address my argument or provide some explanation for your
> >> >> > own.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > My answer was sincere. It is quite odd that we would sacrifice the
> >> >> > young.
> >> >>
> >> >> When I was young, poor and of draft age, I though all wars should be
> >> >> abolished. As I aged, accumulated wealth and priviledge, and passed
> >> >> the
> >> >> age
> >> >> of enlistment, I began to see the wisdom in having young, strong
> >> >> people
> >> >> defend my wealth..I mean country.
> >> >
> >> > Whose wealth is it? Who should protect it?
> >>
> >> It was a tongue-in-cheek response ;^\

> >
> > Then a different question: whose country is it?

>
> Everyone who owns a piece..
>
> > Who should defend it?

>
> From what?


You do learn.

Dutch 02-02-2005 09:44 PM

"Ron" > wrote ...
> In article >, "Dutch" >
> wrote:


> > >> >> When I was young, poor and of draft age, I though all wars should

be
> > >> >> abolished. As I aged, accumulated wealth and priviledge, and

passed
> > >> >> the
> > >> >> age
> > >> >> of enlistment, I began to see the wisdom in having young, strong
> > >> >> people
> > >> >> defend my wealth..I mean country.
> > >> >
> > >> > Whose wealth is it? Who should protect it?
> > >>
> > >> It was a tongue-in-cheek response ;^\
> > >
> > > Then a different question: whose country is it?

> >
> > Everyone who owns a piece..
> >
> > > Who should defend it?

> >
> > From what?

>
> You do learn.


That's what I've been trying to tell you.




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