Not So.

You are no expert on TSEs.

The EU bans anyone from using the milk from
any animal that has a TSE, even when it's just
scrapie. Here is a ProMed post about it. It's
also interesting that they think a goat may have
developed BSE. Why do they ban the milk if
it's not a possible risk?

--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.


TSE, GOATS - EU: 1ST SEMESTER, 2004
*******************************
A ProMED-mail post
<http://www.promedmail.org>
ProMED-mail is a program of the
International Society for Infectious Diseases
<http://www.isid.org>

Date: Wed 19 Jan 2005
From: ProMED-mail >
Source: Kathimerini, Athens, 19 Jan 2005 [edited]
<http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w...0017_19/01/200
5_51930>


Brain disease in Greek goats
-----------------------------
12 Greek goats were found to be suffering from the brain-wasting disease
scrapie in the 1st half of 2004, EU figures that were made public
yesterday
[18 Jan 2005] revealed.

The data, issued by the European Food Safety Authority (EFSA), show that
12
cases of transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSE) were discovered
in
Greece, 8 in Cyprus and 26 in France out of some 17 294 goats tested
throughout the EU in 2004 [Apparently, these figures refer to the 1st
semester of 2004. - Mod.AS]. The figures were made public by Left
Coalition
Synaspismos MEP Dimitris Papadopoulos.

Meanwhile, tests are continuing in the case of a French goat slaughtered
in
2002, which experts think may have developed BSE [See comment]. The EU
bans
the use of milk and meat from herds affected by a TSE case.

--
ProMED-mail
>

[The results of tests in goats for TSE's, during the 1st semester of
2004,
are presented in table form, available at
<http://europa.eu.int/comm/food/food/...st-semester-20
04_en.pdf>.
The figures are arranged in 4 groups: "Eradication"; "Risk animals"
(mostly, animals found dead on farms; also some emergency slaughtered
animals and animals with clinical signs during ante-mortem inspection in
slaughterhouses); "Healthy animals" (Healthy animals subject to normal
slaughter) and "TSE suspects" (Animals reported as TSE clinical
suspect).

Positive and pending cases have been reported in the following
countries:
Greece: 12 positive, 0 pending. (All positives were TSE suspects).
Spain: 0
positive, 2 pending (in "risk animals"). Portugal: 0 positive, 48
pending
(3 in "risk animals," 45 in "healthy animals"). Cyprus: 8 positive, 0
pending. (All the positives in "risk animals").

The total number of adult goats in EU's 25 member countries is about 9.5
million, compared with 66 million adult sheep. The leading goat breeding
countries are (millions of adult animals): Greece (3.9), Spain (2.33),
France (1.03), Italy (0.82), Portugal (0.39), Cyprus (0.3) and
Netherlands
(0.2).

On 30 Nov 2004, EU's Spongiform Encephalopathy Advisory Committee (SEAC)
was informed that a definitive interpretation of the French data on a
goat
suspected of BSE could not be provided by the Community Reference
Laboratory (CRL) for TSEs (based in Weybridge, England) until further
data
from mouse bioassays were available in about 2 months. Those results are
anticipated with great interest. - Mod.AS]

[see also:
2004
----
BSE, goats - France 2002 (03): susp 20041211.3279
BSE, goats - France 2002 (02): susp 20041119.3097
BSE, goats - France 2002: susp. 20041030.2929
Scrapie, atypical, sheep - UK and Ireland 20041210.3274]
................mpp/arn/msp/mpp


*################################################# #########*
************************************************** **********
ProMED-mail makes every effort to verify the reports that
are posted, but the accuracy and completeness of the
information, and of any statements or opinions based
thereon, are not guaranteed. The reader assumes all risks in
using information posted or archived by ProMED-mail. ISID
and its associated service providers shall not be held
responsible for errors or omissions or held liable for any
damages incurred as a result of use or reliance upon posted
or archived material.
************************************************** **********
Visit ProMED-mail's web site at <http://www.promedmail.org>.
Send all items for posting to:
(NOT to an individual moderator). If you do not give your
full name and affiliation, it may not be posted. Send
commands to subscribe/unsubscribe, get archives, help,
etc. to: . For assistance from a
human being send mail to: .
################################################## ##########
################################################## ##########

wrote:
> Not So.
>
> You are no expert on TSEs.
You are no expert on anything, you fat stupid git.

"Scented Nectar" > wrote in message
...
> The EU bans anyone from using the milk from
> any animal that has a TSE, even when it's just
> scrapie. Here is a ProMed post about it. It's
> also interesting that they think a goat may have
> developed BSE. Why do they ban the milk if
> it's not a possible risk?

just because the EU bans something doesn't mean that there is a known risk.
It is banned basically as a PR issue.
Also from a technical point, by the time it is obvious an animal has BSE she
is impossible to milk, it is too dangerous for the chap doing it.
Prior to that, while she has BSE but it is undiagnosed, the milk does go for
human consumption.

The fact that many tens of thousands of cattle in the UK have had the
disease but so few people have been infected show the level of risk that the
US has to face

Jim Webster

Scented Nectar > writes
>The EU bans anyone from using the milk from
>any animal that has a TSE, even when it's just
>scrapie. Here is a ProMed post about it. It's
>also interesting that they think a goat may have
>developed BSE. Why do they ban the milk if
>it's not a possible risk?

Its worth remembering that the modern diagnostics tests apply to dead
animals in the main. Its also worth remembering that the uk had some
180,000 clinical cases of BSE (mostly in dairy cows). So in practice
milk from infected cows was drunk by the general population.

Its worth noting that milk was not infectious when inoculated into the
brains of susceptible mice.

Its also worth noting that as a matter of fact my family and myself
drunk untreated milk from pre-clinical bse cows. We had 13 cases, some
of whom incubated the disease for some 9 years before succumbing.

I posted elsewhere

===================
Er, let's just get this in perspective....

The UK had 200,000 cases of clinical BSE in cattle.
Its estimated that 500,000 - 1M preclinical BSE infected cattle were
eaten by the UK population (these would have been positive on modern
testing).

There have been about 120 cases of vCJD in the UK, and the number is now
slowly decreasing. Approximately 20 people a year died of this out of a
population of 60M.

And you stupid americans get in a fluster because you find a couple of
pre-clinical bse cases? Really, you are so mindless.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloa...29/DH2No29.pdf

In 2002, deaths in the UK:
540,000 deaths
16,000 died from poisoning or injury
3,000 from traffic accidents
2,500 from falls (100 from falls involving bed)
20-odd from vCJD

So try very hard not to run around like headless chickens.
====================

--
Oz

Jim Webster > writes

>The fact that many tens of thousands of cattle in the UK have had the
>disease

About 200,000 confirmed positive cases in cattle.

Most estimates suggest about 1,000,000 cattle in total were infected.

>but so few people have been infected show the level of risk that the
>US has to face

Typical yanks, just can't bear to find they have only a teeny weeny
insignificant infection and try to talk it up mindlessly....

--
Oz

"Oz" > wrote in message
http://www.statistics.gov.uk/downloa...29/DH2No29.pdf
>
> In 2002, deaths in the UK:
> 540,000 deaths
> 16,000 died from poisoning or injury
> 3,000 from traffic accidents
> 2,500 from falls (100 from falls involving bed)
> 20-odd from vCJD
>
> So try very hard not to run around like headless chickens.
> ====================

Oz, you are cruel. There they are trying to whip up a nice bit of hysteria,
ride a few old hobby horses and really enjoy themselves by scaring
themselves witless over something that they know to be irrelevent, and you
come along and spoil it.

Jim Webster

"Jim Webster" > wrote in message ...
>
> "pearl" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> ...
> > > Scrapie, the TSE which affects sheep and goats, is NOT transmissible to
> > > humans.
> >
> > 'New research by Professor Stanley Prusiner strongly suggests
> > that the infective prion agent that causes BSE is found in sheep
> > but at levels which have, until now, been undetectable. Prusiner,
> > professor of neurology at the University of California in San
> > Francisco, won the the Nobel prize for discovering prions. His
> > laboratories are among the world leaders in such research.
> >
> > Last week he said: "The implication of our latest work is that
> > BSE is endemic throughout the British national sheep flock."
> > ......
>
> no, pearl/lotus, he didn't say it last week, you are quoting an old report,
> he said it during the middle of 2000

http://www.mad-cow.org/00/jul00_dont_eat_sheep.html

> And what actually happened was that a scare was whipped up, it looked as if
> the entire UK sheep flock would be slaughtered, until someone admitted that
> they had actually used cattle brain by mistake to inject into the mice
> rather than sheep brain, so all their experiments had proved was that cattle
> that died of BSE had BSE

NOT Prusiner,....

'The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra)
has admitted that testing on the wrong tissue had been carried out
for the past five years. '
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1605959.stm

-restore-

'A paper due out shortly in EMBO Journal by Raymond, Bossers,
Caughey, et al. supports some aspects of Prusiner's position. The
in vitro conversion test shows scrapie, BSE, and CWD have low
but non-zero risks of converting human prion to the abnormal form;
this has been a reliable proxy in the past. While it isn't clear yet
whether the same strain of scrapie mentioned by Prusiner was
among those studied, taken together it would seem that some strains
of scrapie might be of special concern in regards to direct sheep
scrapie to human transmission. The new data is much stronger than,
and trumps, older epidemiological questionaires about scrapie and
CJD that the industry has relied on.
.......
http://www.mad-cow.org/00/jul00_dont_eat_sheep.html .

"pearl" > wrote in message ...
...
> > > "usual suspect" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > > Scrapie, the TSE which affects sheep and goats, is NOT transmissible to
> > > > humans.
> > >
> > > 'New research by Professor Stanley Prusiner strongly suggests
> > > that the infective prion agent that causes BSE is found in sheep
> > > but at levels which have, until now, been undetectable. Prusiner,
> > > professor of neurology at the University of California in San
> > > Francisco, won the the Nobel prize for discovering prions. His
> > > laboratories are among the world leaders in such research.
<..>
> 'A paper due out shortly in EMBO Journal by Raymond, Bossers,
> Caughey, et al. supports some aspects of Prusiner's position. The
> in vitro conversion test shows scrapie, BSE, and CWD have low
> but non-zero risks of converting human prion to the abnormal form;
> this has been a reliable proxy in the past. While it isn't clear yet
> whether the same strain of scrapie mentioned by Prusiner was
> among those studied, taken together it would seem that some strains
> of scrapie might be of special concern in regards to direct sheep
> scrapie to human transmission. The new data is much stronger than,
> and trumps, older epidemiological questionaires about scrapie and
> CJD that the industry has relied on.
> ......
> http://www.mad-cow.org/00/jul00_dont_eat_sheep.html .

'In 2001, a team of French researchers found, to their complete surprise,
a strain of scrapie--"mad sheep" disease--that caused the same brain
damage in mice as sporadic CJD.[19] "This means we cannot rule out
that at least some sporadic CJD may be caused by some strains of scrapie,"
says team member Jean-Philippe Deslys of the French Atomic Energy
Commission's medical research laboratory.[20]

Population studies had failed to show a link between CJD and lamb chops,
but this French research provided an explanation why. There seem to be
six types of sporadic CJD and there are more than 20 strains of scrapie.
If only some sheep strains affect only some people, studies of entire
populations may not clearly show the relationship. Monkeys fed infected
sheep brains certainly come down with the disease.[21] Hundreds of
"mad sheep" were found in the U.S. in 2003.[22] Scrapie remains such
a problem in the United States that the USDA has issued a scrapie
"declaration of emergency."[23] Maybe some cases of sporadic CJD in
the U.S. are caused by sheep meat as well.[24]
......'
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0107-07.htm

"Jim Webster" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> "pearl" > wrote in message
> ...
> > "Jim Webster" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> > > The fact that many tens of thousands of cattle in the UK have had the
> > > disease but so few people have been infected show the level of risk that the
> > > US has to face
> >
> > ' People who develop CJD from eating mad-cow-contaminated beef
> > have been thought to develop a specific form of the disorder called
> > variant CJD. But new research (see reference at the end of part [1] above)
> > indicates the mad cow pathogen can cause both sporadic CJD and the
> > variant form. "Now people are beginning to realize that because something
> > looks like sporadic CJD they can't necessarily conclude that it's not linked
> > to (mad cow disease)," said Laura Manuelidis, Section Chief of Surgery in
> > the Neuropathology Department at Yale University, who conducted a
> > 1989 study that found 13 percent of Alzheimer's patients actually had CJD.
> > Several studies, including the one by Manuelidis, have found autopsies
> > reveal 3-13 percent of patients diagnosed with Alzheimer's or dementia
> > actually suffered from CJD. Those numbers might sound low, but there
> > are 4 million Alzheimer's cases and hundreds of thousands of dementia
> > cases in the United States. A small percentage of those cases could add
> > up to 120 000 or more CJD victims going undetected and not included
> > in official statistics.
> >
> > At the same time autopsies have been declining, the number of deaths
> > attributed to Alzheimer's has increased more than 50-fold since 1979,
> > going from 857 deaths then to nearly 50 000 in 2000. Though it is
> > unlikely that the dramatic increase in Alzheimer's is due entirely to
> > misdiagnosed CJD cases, it "could explain some of the increase we've
> > seen," Manuelidis said.
> > ...'
> > http://foodhaccp.com/msgboard.mv?par...msgnum=1012907
> >
>
> sorry pearl,

You will be.

> but no matter how many crap references you come up with, you
> cannot come up with any evidence that matters. Howl up a really good health
> scare if you like, but you just end up looking like an idiot. In the UK we
> had over 180,000 clinical BSE cases in cows, the vast majority milk cows,
> and the vast majority of them milking for human consumption before they were
> diagnosed. The best estimates are that somewhere between 200,000 and 500,000
> animals were eaten by people with no precautions taken at all
> Hey and we had 120 cases of nvCJD.
> What the Americans have to worry about is shroud waving idiots who have
> their own research budgets to finance, desperate to whip up a health scare
> to get funding.
> The money is better spent on something useful
>
> Jim Webster
>
>

"usual suspect" > wrote in message news
> Jim Webster wrote:
> <...>
> >>>And you stupid americans get in a fluster because you find a couple of
> >>>pre-clinical bse cases? Really, you are so mindless.
> >>
> >>She's *Canadian*.

usual liar is Texan.

> > she used to claim to be Irish
>
> That was in reference to Scented Nectar, not ~~peril~~. Lesley (pearl)
> also claims to be Jewish,

True.

> a skinhead,

Lie #1.

> and an engineering school drop out.

Lie #2.

> I'm sure you're aware of her beliefs that the earth is hollow

You snipped the question;

"When does a spherical object 'ring like a bell'".

Why?

> and a
> gang of enlightened beings live beneath Mount Shasta, California.

Found a photograph similar to the one here yet, suspect?
http://www.anomalies-unlimited.com/OddPics/Shasta.html

> Strange little woman.

Sad little man.

"pearl" > wrote in message news:ct0594

The new data is much stronger than,
> and trumps, older epidemiological questionaires about scrapie and
> CJD that the industry has relied on.
> ......

seeing as how the old reports were totally wrong, it doesn't have to be good
to be better

Jim Webster

"pearl" > wrote in message
...

>
> 'In 2001, a team of French researchers found, to their complete surprise,
> a strain of scrapie--"mad sheep" disease--

well I suppose 2001 is more modern than 2000 but hardly cutting edge

Already discredited

Jim Webster

In article . com>,
) says...

> Could Prions Be In Milk
> And Dairy? - Yes
> What Animal Products Are Free Of Prions?

It is likely that prions are ubiquitous in the environment, infecting
both animals and plants at the most basic cellular level. Some people
spontaneously develop CJD in the absence of any known source of
exposure. It turns out that some human genes spontaneously produce
prions. This condition is probably shared by every other animal species
in the world. Most likely it is also common in plants.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

In article >, (Jim
Webster) says...
> > That was in reference to Scented Nectar, not ~~peril~~. Lesley (pearl)
> > also claims to be Jewish, a skinhead, and an engineering school drop
> > out. I'm sure you're aware of her beliefs that the earth is hollow and a
> > gang of enlightened beings live beneath Mount Shasta, California.
> > Strange little woman.
>
> yes, I was the one who pointed out to her that Mount Shasta does a lot of
> winter sports and skiing

Well there ya go. It doesn't get much more enlightened than that, and
the snow bunnies who figure out how to live there year 'round are la
creme de la creme.

Twenty years ago I worked with a guy who hauled a boat down to Lake
Shasta and spent every weekend there water skiing. I could never figure
out how he could afford it on what we were making. I suspect he sold
dope, which may be how the "enlightened beings" make their living.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

"Larry Caldwell" > wrote in message
k.net...
> In article >, (Jim
> Webster) says...
> > > That was in reference to Scented Nectar, not ~~peril~~. Lesley (pearl)
> > > also claims to be Jewish, a skinhead, and an engineering school drop
> > > out. I'm sure you're aware of her beliefs that the earth is hollow and
a
> > > gang of enlightened beings live beneath Mount Shasta, California.
> > > Strange little woman.
> >
> > yes, I was the one who pointed out to her that Mount Shasta does a lot
of
> > winter sports and skiing
>
> Well there ya go. It doesn't get much more enlightened than that, and
> the snow bunnies who figure out how to live there year 'round are la
> creme de la creme.
>
> Twenty years ago I worked with a guy who hauled a boat down to Lake
> Shasta and spent every weekend there water skiing. I could never figure
> out how he could afford it on what we were making. I suspect he sold
> dope, which may be how the "enlightened beings" make their living.

are inner earth beings subject to federal regulations? Obviously as a Brit I
cannot be expected to know this

Jim Webster

Larry Caldwell > writes
>It is likely that prions are ubiquitous in the environment, infecting
>both animals and plants at the most basic cellular level. Some people
>spontaneously develop CJD in the absence of any known source of
>exposure. It turns out that some human genes spontaneously produce
>prions. This condition is probably shared by every other animal species
>in the world. Most likely it is also common in plants.

There is some significant evidence that prions are in fact responsible
for cellular clocks. See recent (last 6 months) in sciam or new
scientist.

--
Oz

> You are no expert on TSEs.
..
You are no expert on anything, you fat stupid git.
..

whatever ya say ~Gerbil jonnie~!

In article >,
(Jim Webster) says...

> are inner earth beings subject to federal regulations? Obviously as a Brit I
> cannot be expected to know this

Just asking that question reveals how alien American culture is to you.
Nobody in America is subject to federal regulations unless they want
money from the feds. In Shasta County, I hear the Sheriff is an inner
earth being, and nobody has seen a fed since the Reagan administration.
It's a big country, and Washington D.C. is completely out of touch with
it.

--
http://home.teleport.com/~larryc

"pearl" > wrote in message
...

> You read the definition before snipping it? Look again.

I did

Jim Webster