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Old 19-01-2005, 05:36 PM
pearl
 
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wrote in message ...
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 14:39:45 -0000, "pearl" wrote:

"Tim" wrote in message news ..
On a farm Cows are afforded protection from predators and easy access to a
well balanced diet. Compare to a wild herd in say Africa - Lions and all
sorts of predators to get you - competition for food - poor supply of water.
Sounds like a farm animal benefits to me.


Livestock Suffer, Too
http://www.apnm.org/waste_of_west/Chapter5.html


Some do and some don't.


The vast majority do, one way or another.
Then slaughter, with no chance of escape.

One thing that's always true though, is that
people can't contribute to decent lives for livestock with their lifestyle if
they are vegan. Only conscientious consumers can do that.


Vegans rather see wildlife thrive in natural habitats.
Your livestock raising has destroyed much of that.




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Old 19-01-2005, 05:49 PM
Derek
 
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On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:30:57 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:
Derek wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:12:17 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:

We are talking, and have ALWAYS been
talking, about an existential requirement for any
benefit to exist in anyone's mind.


The only requirement for a benefit to exist is a benefactor.
A beneficiary doesn't need to exist before a benefit does.


Yes. The beneficiary MUST exist, else no benefit is
realized.


False. Future heirs to my country's throne don't yet
exist, but their benefits certainly do and are realised
by me despite that.
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Old 19-01-2005, 06:00 PM
Derek
 
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On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:32:15 GMT, wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 17:20:49 +0000, Derek wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 16:12:17 GMT, Rudy Canoza wrote:

We are talking, and have ALWAYS been
talking, about an existential requirement for any
benefit to exist in anyone's mind.


The only requirement for a benefit to exist is a benefactor.
A beneficiary doesn't need to exist before a benefit does.

No matter what the benefit or what the entity, the entity
must ALREADY exist


False. Benefits exits prior to existing beneficiaries. All
that's required for a benefit to exist is a benefactor.
You need to think this one through again, Jon.


He can't. Time after time he proves that he can't.


[One way in which an impersonally formulated Principle
of Beneficence might lead to the Repugnant Conclusion
is if we thought that becoming actual was a benefit which
is conferred by parents on merely possible individuals.
Richard Hare seems to accept such a model in a notorious
paper 'Abortion and the Golden Rule'. Hare suggests that
a plausible extension of the "Golden Rule"—that we should
do to others as we wish them to do to us—is that "we should
do to others what we are glad was done to us" (Hare 1975: 208).
If we allow this extension, Hare suggests, there is a prima facie
obligation to produce more people. Indeed, alarmingly, "from my
gladness [at being born], in conjunction with the extended Golden
Rule, I derive not only a duty not to abort, but a duty not to abstain
from procreation." (Hare 1975: 212)]
http://www.uq.edu.au/~pdwgrey/pubs/posspersons.html

The Gonad can't conceive of himself being wrong,
much less learn what he's wrong about and correct
it. No, when people like him are wrong, they stay
that way.


"People like him", yes.
  #95 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2005, 07:49 PM
Derek
 
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On Wed, 19 Jan 2005 19:39:52 GMT, usual suspect wrote:

pearl wrote:

[..]
Vegans rather see wildlife thrive in natural habitats.


You mean they'd rather see deer starving to death during droughts or
being killed slowly by canine predators.


Livestock don't owe you their lives and hides simply
because you breed them in safe environments. I
think what Jon wrote to David applies to you;

"Get this, ****WIT:

If a predator kills a prey animal, there is no moral
meaning to it.

If you prevent a predator from killing prey, you have
not done a good deed.

Comparing our treatment of livestock to predators'
"treatment" of prey is misguided at best, and stupid
when you keep doing it after having had explained to
you why it's misguided.

One more to jam down your throat with my boot,
****WIT: non-human predators are never cruel.
They can't be."
Jonathan Ball to a ****wit 2004-05-11



  #96 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2005, 08:16 PM
usual suspect
 
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Claire's Uncle Dreck wrote:
[..]

Vegans rather see wildlife thrive in natural habitats.


You mean they'd rather see deer starving to death during droughts or
being killed slowly by canine predators.


Livestock


The issue was wildlife. Thanks for not noticing.

don't owe you their lives and hides simply
because you breed them in safe environments. I
think what Jon wrote to David applies to you;


No, it doesn't.
  #97 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2005, 10:16 PM
John Jones
 
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**** OFF FROM ALTPHILOSOPHY YOU DUMP POSTER

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Old 19-01-2005, 10:17 PM
John Jones
 
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****

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Old 19-01-2005, 10:18 PM
John Jones
 
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**** off you ******

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Old 19-01-2005, 10:19 PM
John Jones
 
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ALL THE ****ING ANIMAL ******S WHO ARE DUMPOSTING ON ALT PHILOSPHY
HI!



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Old 19-01-2005, 10:19 PM
John Jones
 
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ALL THE ****ING ANIMAL ******S WHO ARE DUMPOSTING ON ALT PHILOSPHY
HI!

  #102 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2005, 10:19 PM
John Jones
 
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ALL THE ****ING ANIMAL ******S WHO ARE DUMPOSTING ON ALT PHILOSPHY
HI!

  #103 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2005, 10:19 PM
John Jones
 
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ALL THE ****ING ANIMAL ******S WHO ARE DUMPOSTING ON ALT PHILOSPHY
HI!

  #104 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2005, 10:19 PM
John Jones
 
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ALL THE ****ING ANIMAL ******S WHO ARE DUMPOSTING ON ALT PHILOSPHY
HI!

  #105 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 19-01-2005, 10:19 PM
John Jones
 
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ALL THE ****ING ANIMAL ******S WHO ARE DUMPOSTING ON ALT PHILOSPHY
HI!



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