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Old 08-01-2005, 07:23 PM
 
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Default Plant Protein vs Animal Protein



..

From: "Robert Cohen" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 6, 2005 12:38 pm
Subject: Eating Plant Protein vs. Animal Protein


..



Eating Plant Protein vs. Animal Protein

"Animal food-groups were directly correlated to
mortality from coronary heart disease, defined as
sudden coronary death or fatal myocardial infarction
and vegetable food-groups (except potatoes) as well
as fish and alcohol were inversely correlated with
CHD mortality. Univariate analysis showed significant
positive correlation coefficients for butter (R = 0.887),
meat (R = 0.645), pastries (R = 0.752), and milk (R = 0.600)
consumption, and significant negative correlation
coefficients for legumes (R = -0.822), oils (R = -0.571),
and alcohol (R = -0.609) consumption. Combined vegetable
foods (excluding alcohol) were inversely correlated
(R = -0.519), whereas combined animal foods (excluding fish)
were directly correlated (R = 0.798) with coronary heart
disease death rates."

European Journal of Epidemiology, 1999 Jul, 15:6, 507-15
Robert Cohen
http://www.notmilk.com


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Old 09-01-2005, 06:31 AM
montygram
 
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Default

This is an analysis of the study completed in 1964. It is now known
that CHD is an inflammatory disorder, so the key is to avoid foods that
contribute to this condition, and that means food that generates free
radical damage, oxidizing cholesterol or glycosylating proteins. My
guess is that the way the food was prepared led to the result. In
other words, frying the foods that were high in animal fats made them
considerably more dangerous, whereas boiling legumes was much more
common than boiling meat and eating it that way. My greatgrandfather
lived to be over 100 (he died about 15 years ago) and he grew his own
legumes, but didn't fry them. He did eat some fried food once in a
while, and animal fats were always involved. I'm open-minded, so I'm
going take a look at the book published in 1980 called Seven Countries:
A Multivariate Analysis, and I'll post here after I get a chance to
examine it closely. In general, most of these statistical studies,
especially from 49 years ago, were terribly flawed in so many ways that
you can get a good laugh out of them if you can take a look at the
actual data used (which is usually difficult or impossible).

However, you are making a claim about protein, which is not mentioned
in the abstract to the 1999 analysis study you quote, so you'd need to
be clear about your point. Plant protein can be difficult to digest,
whereas the protein from the common meats are not, though they can be
damaged by cooking, or if the meat isn't fresh. Also, the typical beef
cuts people eat are too high in iron and tryptophan, and who knows what
kinds of hormones, antibiotics, etc. the cows are pumped up with -
that's all scary stuff, in addition to the 50% or so unsaturated fatty
acids, which have no antioxidant cover to them. Plant foods often have
at least some antioxidant cover when you eat them. I was surprised
that soybean oil is actually pretty good, antoxidant-wise, and this is
why this oil performed better when tested on piglets as compared to
canola oil, which seems to be really bad stuff. Coconut oil is far
superior, though, and generations of Asians can attest to this point
(and Africans and other can attest to the health properties of palm
kernel oil, which is almost as high as coconut oil in saturated fatty
acids, which, as I've posted many times before, resist free radical
damage). It's all about biochemical mechanisms, and they are known now
- avoids free radical damage in your body by avoiding foods (or foods
cooked in a certain way) that will contribute. Dark chocolate,
berries, white tea, etc., are being touted now because they attentuate
the free radical damage commonly consumed food do to people, and I eat
these foods on a regular basis, but I also avoid unsaturated fatty
acids, oxidized cholesterol, and other nasty stuff. For example, I eat
raw dairy whenever possible, but I never eat homogenized dairy or dairy
products with carrageenan in them. It's no surprise that these foods
correlated with CHD because this was the era when homogenization, etc.,
became common.


wrote:
.

From: "Robert Cohen" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 6, 2005 12:38 pm
Subject: Eating Plant Protein vs. Animal Protein


.



Eating Plant Protein vs. Animal Protein

"Animal food-groups were directly correlated to
mortality from coronary heart disease, defined as
sudden coronary death or fatal myocardial infarction
and vegetable food-groups (except potatoes) as well
as fish and alcohol were inversely correlated with
CHD mortality. Univariate analysis showed significant
positive correlation coefficients for butter (R = 0.887),
meat (R = 0.645), pastries (R = 0.752), and milk (R = 0.600)
consumption, and significant negative correlation
coefficients for legumes (R = -0.822), oils (R = -0.571),
and alcohol (R = -0.609) consumption. Combined vegetable
foods (excluding alcohol) were inversely correlated
(R = -0.519), whereas combined animal foods (excluding fish)
were directly correlated (R = 0.798) with coronary heart
disease death rates."

European Journal of Epidemiology, 1999 Jul, 15:6, 507-15
Robert Cohen
http://www.notmilk.com

  #3 (permalink)   Report Post  
Old 09-01-2005, 06:32 AM
montygram
 
Posts: n/a
Default

This is an analysis of the study completed in 1964. It is now known
that CHD is an inflammatory disorder, so the key is to avoid foods that
contribute to this condition, and that means food that generates free
radical damage, oxidizing cholesterol or glycosylating proteins. My
guess is that the way the food was prepared led to the result. In
other words, frying the foods that were high in animal fats made them
considerably more dangerous, whereas boiling legumes was much more
common than boiling meat and eating it that way. My greatgrandfather
lived to be over 100 (he died about 15 years ago) and he grew his own
legumes, but didn't fry them. He did eat some fried food once in a
while, and animal fats were always involved. I'm open-minded, so I'm
going take a look at the book published in 1980 called Seven Countries:
A Multivariate Analysis, and I'll post here after I get a chance to
examine it closely. In general, most of these statistical studies,
especially from 49 years ago, were terribly flawed in so many ways that
you can get a good laugh out of them if you can take a look at the
actual data used (which is usually difficult or impossible).

However, you are making a claim about protein, which is not mentioned
in the abstract to the 1999 analysis study you quote, so you'd need to
be clear about your point. Plant protein can be difficult to digest,
whereas the protein from the common meats are not, though they can be
damaged by cooking, or if the meat isn't fresh. Also, the typical beef
cuts people eat are too high in iron and tryptophan, and who knows what
kinds of hormones, antibiotics, etc. the cows are pumped up with -
that's all scary stuff, in addition to the 50% or so unsaturated fatty
acids, which have no antioxidant cover to them. Plant foods often have
at least some antioxidant cover when you eat them. I was surprised
that soybean oil is actually pretty good, antoxidant-wise, and this is
why this oil performed better when tested on piglets as compared to
canola oil, which seems to be really bad stuff. Coconut oil is far
superior, though, and generations of Asians can attest to this point
(and Africans and other can attest to the health properties of palm
kernel oil, which is almost as high as coconut oil in saturated fatty
acids, which, as I've posted many times before, resist free radical
damage). It's all about biochemical mechanisms, and they are known now
- avoids free radical damage in your body by avoiding foods (or foods
cooked in a certain way) that will contribute. Dark chocolate,
berries, white tea, etc., are being touted now because they attentuate
the free radical damage commonly consumed food do to people, and I eat
these foods on a regular basis, but I also avoid unsaturated fatty
acids, oxidized cholesterol, and other nasty stuff. For example, I eat
raw dairy whenever possible, but I never eat homogenized dairy or dairy
products with carrageenan in them. It's no surprise that these foods
correlated with CHD because this was the era when homogenization, etc.,
became common.


wrote:
.

From: "Robert Cohen" [email protected]
Date: Thu Jan 6, 2005 12:38 pm
Subject: Eating Plant Protein vs. Animal Protein


.



Eating Plant Protein vs. Animal Protein

"Animal food-groups were directly correlated to
mortality from coronary heart disease, defined as
sudden coronary death or fatal myocardial infarction
and vegetable food-groups (except potatoes) as well
as fish and alcohol were inversely correlated with
CHD mortality. Univariate analysis showed significant
positive correlation coefficients for butter (R = 0.887),
meat (R = 0.645), pastries (R = 0.752), and milk (R = 0.600)
consumption, and significant negative correlation
coefficients for legumes (R = -0.822), oils (R = -0.571),
and alcohol (R = -0.609) consumption. Combined vegetable
foods (excluding alcohol) were inversely correlated
(R = -0.519), whereas combined animal foods (excluding fish)
were directly correlated (R = 0.798) with coronary heart
disease death rates."

European Journal of Epidemiology, 1999 Jul, 15:6, 507-15
Robert Cohen
http://www.notmilk.com



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