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  #1481 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dutch
 
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"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Dutch" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Ron" > wrote
>>
>> >You've wanted to separate yourself as
>> > a caring individual and me as uncaring one. Is your behaviour
>> > consistent
>> > with that of a caring person. Does a caring person sit back and follow
>> > along while another they have some sort of social relations with (ie,
>> > fellow poster) verbally abuses another.
>> >
>> >> > In polite society, silence is sometimes said to indicate
>> >> > agreement.
>> >>
>> >> What does usenet have to do with polite society?
>> >
>> > There is a quite a bit of research on transference on the internet. It
>> > might interest you.
>> >
>> > The common theme seems to be the suspension or disinhibition of social
>> > practices.

>>
>> I see. Would an example of that be refusing to remove rec.boats from
>> one's
>> newsgroup list after being politely asked to do so?

>
> It could be perceived this way. However, to bow to such
> passive-aggressive games as this, Rudy could keep me occupied day and
> night trimming headers that he has placed there. I leave it as his
> responsibility. The informal social practice of trimming headers
> presumes that people are of goodwill and not shit disturbing. Being
> morally relativistically, I can adjust my behaviour to suit the
> occasion, situation, or event.


I perceive plain vanilla laziness, according to Occam's Razor.


  #1482 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Dutch" >
> wrote:
>
>> I thought you said professionals were dupes and we should just be locking
>> them up and throwing away the key. There's that famous Ron inconsistency
>> again. Maybe you should attempt to remember what you say on a subject as
>> a
>> reference for next time.

>
> A misdirection of attention. We were discussing your views Dutch.


I explained my views. I do not feel compelled to intervene in a discussion
engaged in voluntarily between two adults. I find it very odd indeed that
you would imply that I should when you advocate letting anorexics who plead
for help starve to death. I see Rudy's assault on SN's views as a possible
ray of hope for her. You are free to allow her to wallow, but don't presume
that the rest of us must do so.

Your views however are also at issue here, and once again, those views
appear wildly inconsistent.

> I was
> clear that I was discussing the contention that vegans have eating
> disorders.


Yes...

> That is a contention that was held by others.


Yes...

> If you are
> unwilling to be honest about the position that you took, honest
> discussion is outside of the realm of possibilities.


I am at a loss, where was I dishonest?


  #1483 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Ron" > wrote
> >>
> >> >You've wanted to separate yourself as
> >> > a caring individual and me as uncaring one. Is your behaviour
> >> > consistent
> >> > with that of a caring person. Does a caring person sit back and follow
> >> > along while another they have some sort of social relations with (ie,
> >> > fellow poster) verbally abuses another.
> >> >
> >> >> > In polite society, silence is sometimes said to indicate
> >> >> > agreement.
> >> >>
> >> >> What does usenet have to do with polite society?
> >> >
> >> > There is a quite a bit of research on transference on the internet. It
> >> > might interest you.
> >> >
> >> > The common theme seems to be the suspension or disinhibition of social
> >> > practices.
> >>
> >> I see. Would an example of that be refusing to remove rec.boats from
> >> one's
> >> newsgroup list after being politely asked to do so?

> >
> > It could be perceived this way. However, to bow to such
> > passive-aggressive games as this, Rudy could keep me occupied day and
> > night trimming headers that he has placed there. I leave it as his
> > responsibility. The informal social practice of trimming headers
> > presumes that people are of goodwill and not shit disturbing. Being
> > morally relativistically, I can adjust my behaviour to suit the
> > occasion, situation, or event.

>
> I perceive plain vanilla laziness, according to Occam's Razor.


I allow for a certain amount of laziness everyday. That you attribute my
lazy period to this is mistaken, but oh well, what you believe of what I
state as my opinion is relatively rare.
  #1484 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I thought you said professionals were dupes and we should just be locking
> >> them up and throwing away the key. There's that famous Ron inconsistency
> >> again. Maybe you should attempt to remember what you say on a subject as
> >> a
> >> reference for next time.

> >
> > A misdirection of attention. We were discussing your views Dutch.

>
> I explained my views. I do not feel compelled to intervene in a discussion
> engaged in voluntarily between two adults. I find it very odd indeed that
> you would imply that I should when you advocate letting anorexics who plead
> for help starve to death. I see Rudy's assault on SN's views as a possible
> ray of hope for her. You are free to allow her to wallow, but don't presume
> that the rest of us must do so.


Please don't confuse our views. I was addressing your reactions as
compared to your stated position. Based on your response here, I should
be verbally abusive to any anorexic that I meet as means to "help" them.
You seem to suggest above that this is what Rudy is doing for SN.

My view remains as stated, where some expresses behaviour consistent
with a desire to die, I believe that all people should be supported in
what they want.

If you want me to accept your viewpoint that the anorexic has no ability
to control their thoughts, emotions or behaivours then,
institutionalized life until they can demonstrate a cure is certainly a
reasonable response for a society.
  #1485 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Dutch" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >, "Dutch" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Ron" > wrote
>> >>
>> >> >You've wanted to separate yourself as
>> >> > a caring individual and me as uncaring one. Is your behaviour
>> >> > consistent
>> >> > with that of a caring person. Does a caring person sit back and
>> >> > follow
>> >> > along while another they have some sort of social relations with
>> >> > (ie,
>> >> > fellow poster) verbally abuses another.
>> >> >
>> >> >> > In polite society, silence is sometimes said to indicate
>> >> >> > agreement.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What does usenet have to do with polite society?
>> >> >
>> >> > There is a quite a bit of research on transference on the internet.
>> >> > It
>> >> > might interest you.
>> >> >
>> >> > The common theme seems to be the suspension or disinhibition of
>> >> > social
>> >> > practices.
>> >>
>> >> I see. Would an example of that be refusing to remove rec.boats from
>> >> one's
>> >> newsgroup list after being politely asked to do so?
>> >
>> > It could be perceived this way. However, to bow to such
>> > passive-aggressive games as this, Rudy could keep me occupied day and
>> > night trimming headers that he has placed there. I leave it as his
>> > responsibility. The informal social practice of trimming headers
>> > presumes that people are of goodwill and not shit disturbing. Being
>> > morally relativistically, I can adjust my behaviour to suit the
>> > occasion, situation, or event.

>>
>> I perceive plain vanilla laziness, according to Occam's Razor.

>
> I allow for a certain amount of laziness everyday. That you attribute my
> lazy period to this is mistaken, but oh well, what you believe of what I
> state as my opinion is relatively rare.


That makes no sense, please review your entries before submitting them.




  #1486 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Ron" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, "Dutch" >
> wrote:
>
>> "Ron" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> > In article >, "Dutch" >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I thought you said professionals were dupes and we should just be
>> >> locking
>> >> them up and throwing away the key. There's that famous Ron
>> >> inconsistency
>> >> again. Maybe you should attempt to remember what you say on a subject
>> >> as
>> >> a
>> >> reference for next time.
>> >
>> > A misdirection of attention. We were discussing your views Dutch.

>>
>> I explained my views. I do not feel compelled to intervene in a
>> discussion
>> engaged in voluntarily between two adults. I find it very odd indeed that
>> you would imply that I should when you advocate letting anorexics who
>> plead
>> for help starve to death. I see Rudy's assault on SN's views as a
>> possible
>> ray of hope for her. You are free to allow her to wallow, but don't
>> presume
>> that the rest of us must do so.

>
> Please don't confuse our views. I was addressing your reactions as
> compared to your stated position. Based on your response here, I should
> be verbally abusive to any anorexic that I meet as means to "help" them.


Why not? It might help. If it's true that they are simply putting a game on
then perhaps a little nasty attitude might shame them out of it. If they are
starving to death it's not going to hurt them any more than they're hurting
themself already.

> You seem to suggest above that this is what Rudy is doing for SN.


I find it a reasonable interpretation. Of course she must *take* it that way
at some point or it won't work.

> My view remains as stated, where some expresses behaviour consistent
> with a desire to die, I believe that all people should be supported in
> what they want.


What if they want YOUR money, your life?

> If you want me to accept your viewpoint that the anorexic has no ability
> to control their thoughts, emotions or behaivours then,
> institutionalized life until they can demonstrate a cure is certainly a
> reasonable response for a society.


Yes, some sort of facility would be helpful. We could play them tapes of
Rudy calling them filthy skanks and you calling them self-indulgent whiners.
That should work up an appetite.


  #1487 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> I explained my views. I do not feel compelled to intervene in a
discussion
> engaged in voluntarily between two adults. I find it very odd indeed

that
> you would imply that I should when you advocate letting anorexics who

plead
> for help starve to death. I see Rudy's assault on SN's views as a

possible
> ray of hope for her. You are free to allow her to wallow, but don't

presume
> that the rest of us must do so.



A ray of hope? Are you nuts? His mannerisms and
insulting ways are not a ray of hope. They are more
like glistening waste material.

--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.


  #1488 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> "Ron" > wrote
> >> >>
> >> >> >You've wanted to separate yourself as
> >> >> > a caring individual and me as uncaring one. Is your behaviour
> >> >> > consistent
> >> >> > with that of a caring person. Does a caring person sit back and
> >> >> > follow
> >> >> > along while another they have some sort of social relations with
> >> >> > (ie,
> >> >> > fellow poster) verbally abuses another.
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > In polite society, silence is sometimes said to indicate
> >> >> >> > agreement.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What does usenet have to do with polite society?
> >> >> >
> >> >> > There is a quite a bit of research on transference on the internet.
> >> >> > It
> >> >> > might interest you.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > The common theme seems to be the suspension or disinhibition of
> >> >> > social
> >> >> > practices.
> >> >>
> >> >> I see. Would an example of that be refusing to remove rec.boats from
> >> >> one's
> >> >> newsgroup list after being politely asked to do so?
> >> >
> >> > It could be perceived this way. However, to bow to such
> >> > passive-aggressive games as this, Rudy could keep me occupied day and
> >> > night trimming headers that he has placed there. I leave it as his
> >> > responsibility. The informal social practice of trimming headers
> >> > presumes that people are of goodwill and not shit disturbing. Being
> >> > morally relativistically, I can adjust my behaviour to suit the
> >> > occasion, situation, or event.
> >>
> >> I perceive plain vanilla laziness, according to Occam's Razor.

> >
> > I allow for a certain amount of laziness everyday. That you attribute my
> > lazy period to this is mistaken, but oh well, what you believe of what I
> > state as my opinion is relatively rare.

>
> That makes no sense, please review your entries before submitting them.


I would find it helpful if you would clarify what you don't understand
so that I can help you.
  #1489 (permalink)   Report Post  
Ron
 
Posts: n/a
Default

In article >, "Dutch" >
wrote:

> "Ron" > wrote in message
> ...
> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "Ron" > wrote in message
> >> ...
> >> > In article >, "Dutch" >
> >> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I thought you said professionals were dupes and we should just be
> >> >> locking
> >> >> them up and throwing away the key. There's that famous Ron
> >> >> inconsistency
> >> >> again. Maybe you should attempt to remember what you say on a subject
> >> >> as
> >> >> a
> >> >> reference for next time.
> >> >
> >> > A misdirection of attention. We were discussing your views Dutch.
> >>
> >> I explained my views. I do not feel compelled to intervene in a
> >> discussion
> >> engaged in voluntarily between two adults. I find it very odd indeed that
> >> you would imply that I should when you advocate letting anorexics who
> >> plead
> >> for help starve to death. I see Rudy's assault on SN's views as a
> >> possible
> >> ray of hope for her. You are free to allow her to wallow, but don't
> >> presume
> >> that the rest of us must do so.

> >
> > Please don't confuse our views. I was addressing your reactions as
> > compared to your stated position. Based on your response here, I should
> > be verbally abusive to any anorexic that I meet as means to "help" them.

>
> Why not? It might help. If it's true that they are simply putting a game on
> then perhaps a little nasty attitude might shame them out of it. If they are
> starving to death it's not going to hurt them any more than they're hurting
> themself already.


Which game are you referring to here? Is the suggestion that an eating
disorder is the game, or that their interactions are a game, or Rudy's
involvement with his posts direct at SN are part of a game?

This however doesn't remove responsibility for you position, or more
correctly to be considered an honest and intellectually honest
individual. If the claim is that vegans are eating disordered, my
question was quite clear: is this how you view those who you have deemed
medically ill should be treated in the community?

> > You seem to suggest above that this is what Rudy is doing for SN.

>
> I find it a reasonable interpretation. Of course she must *take* it that way
> at some point or it won't work.


I think then we now have a solution to eating "disorders". We can now
establish treatment programs where people come in for regular doses of
verbal abuse. I think we should then petition the medical community to
incorporate expressions such as "****hair" and "****wit" into their
bedside manner.

> > My view remains as stated, where some expresses behaviour consistent
> > with a desire to die, I believe that all people should be supported in
> > what they want.

>
> What if they want YOUR money, your life?


That's the beauty of being morally bankrupt, amoral and morally
relativistic. I can support whatever other wants so long as it doesn't
interfere in what I want.

> > If you want me to accept your viewpoint that the anorexic has no ability
> > to control their thoughts, emotions or behaivours then,
> > institutionalized life until they can demonstrate a cure is certainly a
> > reasonable response for a society.

>
> Yes, some sort of facility would be helpful. We could play them tapes of
> Rudy calling them filthy skanks and you calling them self-indulgent whiners.
> That should work up an appetite.


You used these terms. I used the term passive-aggressive which refers to
an inability to manage one's anger. One can coddle the passive
aggressive, or the passive aggressive can choose to learn ways to become
assertive as one possible solution. The passive aggressive (anorexic)
could also be honest. The anorexic does what they do because they want
to and because they like or derive some happiness from their choices.
I've mentioned previously the paradoxical theory of change. Until the
anorexic can be honest with who they are and what they do they seal
their own fate. A consistent and persistent desire to be dishonest about
the fact that they are starving themselves and to die means that are
just dragging the rest of down with them.
  #1490 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" > wrote
> > I explained my views. I do not feel compelled to intervene in a

> discussion
> > engaged in voluntarily between two adults. I find it very odd indeed

> that
> > you would imply that I should when you advocate letting anorexics who

> plead
> > for help starve to death. I see Rudy's assault on SN's views as a

> possible
> > ray of hope for her. You are free to allow her to wallow, but don't

> presume
> > that the rest of us must do so.

>
>
> A ray of hope? Are you nuts? His mannerisms and
> insulting ways are not a ray of hope. They are more
> like glistening waste material.


Ever heard of a diamond ring being found inside a turd?




  #1491 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Ron" > wrote

> > > I allow for a certain amount of laziness everyday. That you attribute

my
> > > lazy period to this is mistaken, but oh well, what you believe of what

I
> > > state as my opinion is relatively rare.

> >
> > That makes no sense, please review your entries before submitting them.

>
> I would find it helpful if you would clarify what you don't understand
> so that I can help you.


"what you believe of what I state as my opinion is relatively rare."




  #1492 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> > A ray of hope? Are you nuts? His mannerisms and
> > insulting ways are not a ray of hope. They are more
> > like glistening waste material.

>
> Ever heard of a diamond ring being found inside a turd?


I doubt you're a diamond under all that turd.

--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.



  #1493 (permalink)   Report Post  
Dutch
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Scented Nectar" > wrote

>> > A ray of hope? Are you nuts? His mannerisms and
>> > insulting ways are not a ray of hope. They are more
>> > like glistening waste material.

>>
>> Ever heard of a diamond ring being found inside a turd?

>
> I doubt you're a diamond under all that turd.


I realize that you doubt. You don't believe that I have altruistic motives.


  #1494 (permalink)   Report Post  
Scented Nectar
 
Posts: n/a
Default

> > I doubt you're a diamond under all that turd.
>
> I realize that you doubt. You don't believe that I have altruistic

motives.

You have annoyance motives. You like to
**** people off. If you were altruistic in the
slightest, you would come across as a nicer
person.


--
SN
http://www.scentednectar.com/veg/
A huge directory listing over 700 veg recipe sites.
Has a fun 'Jump to a Random Link' button.



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